Judge Massei Sentencing Report     The Meredith Kercher Fund     The Murder Of Meredith Kercher Wiki     True Justice For Meredith Kercher     Judge Nencini Sentencing Report 


Last visit was: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:01 pm
It is currently Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:01 pm
All times are UTC

The Mystery of the Empty Duodenum SOLVED

Moderators: Nell, Ergon, nicki, Michael, Forensics Moderator, Moderators


 Page 1 of 1 [ 3 posts ]
Author Message

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:11 pm   Post subject: The Mystery of the Empty Duodenum SOLVED   

The Mystery of the Empty Duodenum SOLVED Part I


Posted by PMF member 'Max'.



The Mystery of the Empty Duodenum SOLVED Part I

This one just recently 'clicked' for me. I have always had the feeling that 'something' was missing from the different theories. I couldn't really grasp what it was since I am not a biologist and the Massei report is a bit confusing on this. However I can spot math errors from a mile away and that is what is happening here. Science is used but the results are misused (or not even used). I am not going to take credit for solving the 'mystery' as that was already done by James:
http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tj ... _meredith/

What James does not specifically explain is that mr Halkides is exaggerating (on purpose?) the real time it takes for food to start entering the duodenum. There is another theory from a certain mr Geebee that is more honest about this. Then both gentlemen misuse the scientific results to come to their predetermined theory that Meredith must have been killed shortly after 9pm. The ‘funny’ thing is if you combine both theories you come to the right conclusions.

Mr Geebee is more honest about the short period of time it takes for food to pass to the duodenum. Mr Halkides is honest that one should take the starting moment of when Meredith had her meal that evening.

http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.com/ ... edith.html
http://kermit-analysis.wikispaces.com/Empty-Duodenum

Note how Mr G comments on the source used by Mr H.
Quote:
Note: since this was a novel technique, I would give it slightly less weight than the more well established studies.

Indeed the more well established studies show a lag time (for a solid meal) shorter than 82 minutes (the average timing mentioned by mr H). Less than an hour even. See for example a source (mentioned by Mr H for crying out loud!), that includes a graph that shows that the first food starts to empty from the stomach within an hour (the moment where the blue graph starts to descend).

http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pa ... tying.html

Meredith ate at around 6pm and the science tells us that normally the first food must have entered her duodenum at about an hour later at 7pm. Both gentlemen do not say this and completely ignore this simple conclusion. Why? Because this does not fit their predetermined theory. Here comes the deceit by mr G where he makes up a ridiculous theory that the food eaten at 6pm would somehow just sit in her stomach for more than 3 hours because it would wait for an apple that Meredith ate at around 8pm. Mr H on the other hand completely ignores 'his own' 82 minutes and starts to look for extremes to reach for that 9pm timing. What kind of scientist does that?

There are certainly variables to be considered. Digestion is different for different types of food and there are differences for each person. However the ranges (for the starting moment) are not hours but minutes (the ranges mentioned in the Massei report concern the total emptying time for food leaving the stomach). Stress could delay it by hours but keep in mind we are talking about the period 6pm-9pm here and there is no reason to assume anything out of the ordinary at this moment. There is also no reason to assume Meredith would have some kind of medical condition that could account for such a delay.

Conclusion #1: There is no reason to assume that for a young and healthy woman like Meredith the food eaten at 6pm would not start to enter the duodenum by 7pm.


ORIGINAL POST
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:17 pm   Post subject: Re: The Mystery of the Empty Duodenum SOLVED   

The Mystery of the Empty Duodenum SOLVED Part II



The Mystery of the Empty Duodenum SOLVED Part II

Following through on our first conclusion, we start to see what happened with the pizza she ate at 6pm. By 7pm it starts to process into the duodenum. Dr Lalli explains that the timing for a meal to completely empty from the stomach is 2-3 hours (at one time he also mentions 4 hours). Mr H is helpful by explaining that Meredith did not finish her pizza:

Quote:
According to Candace Dempsey’s book, Murder in Italy, Sophie Purton said that Meredith ate only part of her pizza.

http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.com/ ... edith.html

I haven't been able to find another source on that but if it is true then it only indicates that Meredith didn't eat all that much. Under normal conditions therefore the pizza eaten at around 6pm would most likely be fully gone from the stomach by 8-9pm.

I don't know if there are any timings for the duodenum specifically, but I did find timings for the small intestine. The duodenum is the first part of the small intestine.

Quote:
Food may take as long as four hours to pass through the small intestine, with the average length of time hovering at about 2.5 to three hours. The exact length of time is dependent on the individual makeup of each person, the type of food being digested, gender, psychological stress and even reproductive status.

http://www.thefreeresource.com/small-in ... -resources

The ranges for stomach emptying and intestine emptying make it much more likely that the duodenum was emptied sometime after 9PM. Especially since after 9PM there could be considerable stress. The 9PM TOD theory is deceiving and when we stick to the science it shows us the exact opposite.

Conclusion #2: The 6PM pizza has passed through the stomach by 9PM, and the last part has been passed to the duodenum. It is hard to tell when exactly an empty duodenum would be expected but 9PM seems unlikely.


ORIGINAL POST
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:23 pm   Post subject: Re: The Mystery of the Empty Duodenum SOLVED   

The Mystery of the Empty Duodenum SOLVED Part III



The Mystery of the Empty Duodenum SOLVED Part III

So where is the 6pm pizza at TOD? At TOD the duodenum is empty so the 6PM pizza must have passed through the duodenum as well. This gets confirmed by the autopsy.

Quote:
In the autopsy, Dr. Lalli noted the following: "... oesophagus containing a fragment apparently a piece of mushroom ... stomach containing 500 cc alimentary bolus, green brown in which were recognizable caseosis (mozzarella?) and vegetable fibre ... empty duodenum, small intestine containing digested material in the last loop ...".

Conclusion #3: At TOD the 6PM pizza has passed the duodenum and is (at least partly) still in the last loop of the small intestine.
Conclusion #4: At TOD the duodenum was empty and there is food in the stomach. It is impossible that the food in the stomach was the 6pm pizza therefore it must have been eaten by Meredith later after she got home.

Lets be careful not to make the same mistake as the 9pm theories. That is, to try to pinpoint the TOD based on the digestion analysis. After 9pm it is possible that Meredith gets stressed. We don't know how the trouble began and when exactly it began. In contrast to the time before 9pm it is much more insecure now how long it would take for food to be digested. Stress can delay digestion by hours!

Quote:
A head injury, physical or mental shock or stress, may completely inhibit the secretion of gastric juice, the motility of the stomach and the opening of the pylorus, and undigested food may be seen after more than 24 hours. Any illness or emotional stress, may prolong the emptying time for many hours.

http://healthdrip.com/estimation-of-pos ... -interval/

Overall conclusions: It is sad to realize that Meredith must have eaten at home. It seems that everything was normal at first and that the attack happened after Meredith finished eating. She not only ate a mushroom but also something with cheese. Possibly even a leftover pizza that she took home? Who knows. Nobody testified to Meredith taking any pizza home, but if Candace Dempsey is right that she did not finish the pizza then we at least know that there were leftovers and nobody testified that Meredith threw the pizza in the bin either.

One can probably write a book on how psychological factors have influenced the analysis over the last few years. IIRC this theory was never followed through on PMF the first few years. We always got stuck with the idea that the theory showed that Meredith must have been killed before 9PM and that therefore the 'duodenum theory' must have been nonsense. The nonsense part is true, but we also could have followed through on the science instead of just assuming that the stomach content was the 6PM pizza. I must also say that the Massei report isn't very clear on this particular subject and makes it a bit confusing.

Note: I have left out the apple that Meredith ate at around 8PM because one needs to know exactly when this was eaten to draw some conclusions but basically the same analysis applies. However it is far more difficult to make an estimate since now it is much closer to 9PM and an apple is not a pizza so the timing estimates are a bit different. If Meredith ate the apple shortly before 9PM and there was early trouble at the cottage then the apple might still be in the stomach at TOD. If not then the apple was also gone and she simply had another bit of apple with her (pizza)snack at home.


ORIGINAL POST
Top Profile E-mail 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1 [ 3 posts ]


Who is online
Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

  

Judge Massei Sentencing Report     The Meredith Kercher Fund     The Murder Of Meredith Kercher Wiki     True Justice For Meredith Kercher     Judge Nencini Sentencing Report 


28,905,441 Views