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VI. MAIN DISCUSSION, Jan 1 - Feb 28, 09

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:07 am   Post subject: VI. MAIN DISCUSSION, Jan 1 - Feb 28, 09   

VI. MAIN DISCUSSION, Jan 1 - Feb 28, 09



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This is the main discussion thread regarding the achievement of truth and justice for Meredith Kercher and her family. Meredith, barely 21 years old, was brutally murdered in her own home on the 1st November 2007 whilst studying in Perugia, Italy.

To read the previous main discussion thread, please view V. MAIN DISCUSSION, Oct 2 - Dec 31, 08

Michael (Co-Administrator/Moderator of Perugia Murder File)

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Last edited by Michael on Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:39 am   Post subject: Knox No. 5 Most Infamous   

Amanda has made it to number 5 in the most infamous crimes of Seattle 2008 list:

Top 5 most infamous Seattle crimes of 2008

5. Amanda Knox - Yea, I know, she was arrested last year, but she was still plenty on the radar in 2008. The former UW honor-roll student was the feature of 20/20 episodes, had numerous news specials filmed on her and was even finally charged with the murder of her roommate. The crime she was charged with is a 2007 issue, but it looks like a good bet Amanda Knox could even make this list next year.

EXAMINER

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:30 pm   Post subject: Knoxy Overshadows Palin and Bruni   

Sexy Killer Knoxy Overshadows Palin and Bruni

According to a `Berlusconi television´ poll, the deadly but attractive Amanda Knox was declared the most popular woman in 2008.


The American Amanda Knox (21), accused of the murder of the Briton Meredith Kercher, became the most popular woman in 2008 according to a poll by the television station Studio Aperto, which is owned by the Italian premier Silvio Berlusconi.

Knox beat the former Columbian captive Ingrid Betancourt, as well as Sarah Palin and Carla Bruni. Amanda has received the nickname Foxy Knoxy, writes Daily Mail...

JAVNO

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Offline DeathFish 2000


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:41 pm   Post subject: They think I'm so hot   

Ultimately, its what she wanted Michael.
She will be enjoying the notoriety without a doubt - seeing that she is so "hot" and everything.
In the top 5 infamous criminals in Seattle.
Rubbing shoulders with good company.
Her family and friends must be so proud of her.

I wish everyone here a happy new year and hope Merediths family attain justice and at least some kind of closure this year.

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R.I.P
Meredith Kercher.
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:40 pm   Post subject: RS Defense trip to the cottage   

Hello everyone,

Happy New Year to all of you. My wishes also to Meredith's family and hope they do get the answers and justice they so deserve.

Article from Il Secolo XIX.

"Meredith Murder, Trial for Amanda"

I don't know how reliable this... They ommited RS in their headline. Same old news except for this bit at the end:

"Sollecito's defense have requested another visit to the cottage. They want to conduct an experiment to prove how possible was that someone could have entered Meredith's bedroom on the night of her murder."

http://tinyurl.com/7pd2s5
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:52 pm   Post subject: Amanda Knox voted Italian 'woman of the year'   

Amanda Knox voted Italian 'woman of the year'

Amanda Knox, 21, was voted the most popular woman in the poll held by a television news programme, beating US vice-presidential hopeful Sarah Palin and French first Lady Carla Bruni Sarkozy...

...The internet poll was won overall by Roberto Saviano, the Italian investigative journalist who wrote a best-selling book, Gomorrah, about the Naples-based Camorra mafia, since turned into a film tipped to win an Oscar...

...The mystery over who killed Miss Kercher and why has gripped Italy since the Leeds University student was found lying in a pool of her own blood in the whitewashed cottage in November 2007....

...Miss Knox has appeared on the covers of Italian magazines and in countless newspaper stories, her blonde hair, fresh complexion and good looks earning her the name "angel-face" from the Italian media...


THE TELEGRAPH

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Offline nicki

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:28 am   Post subject: Happy New Year   

Dear All,

I have posted a new PPT on sample collection and DNA analysis interpretation. It's quite short and simple-I hope it addresses some of the most common questions about DNA collection and results.

Happy New Year everyone!
Nicki
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Offline indie


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm   Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox voted Italian 'woman of the year'   

Michael wrote:
Amanda Knox voted Italian 'woman of the year'

Amanda Knox, 21, was voted the most popular woman in the poll held by a television news programme, beating US vice-presidential hopeful Sarah Palin and French first Lady Carla Bruni Sarkozy...

...The internet poll was won overall by Roberto Saviano, the Italian investigative journalist who wrote a best-selling book, Gomorrah, about the Naples-based Camorra mafia, since turned into a film tipped to win an Oscar...

...The mystery over who killed Miss Kercher and why has gripped Italy since the Leeds University student was found lying in a pool of her own blood in the whitewashed cottage in November 2007....

...Miss Knox has appeared on the covers of Italian magazines and in countless newspaper stories, her blonde hair, fresh complexion and good looks earning her the name "angel-face" from the Italian media...


THE TELEGRAPH




MSNBC is reporting on the Infamous Amanda Knox also: MSNBC Video
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:59 pm   Post subject: A star is born   

Indie wrote:

Quote:
MSNBC is reporting on the Infamous Amanda Knox also.


It is a dubious achievement to be more "newsworthy" than Sarah Palin, who was probably more detested in Europe than in America (if that is possible), and Carla Bruni, former top model, mediocre singer and musician, infamous for sleeping with some of the biggest names in rock, including Mick Jaggar and Eric Clapton, and for stealing Raffael Enhoven, the young husband of Justine Lévy, daughter of Bernard Henri Lévy, while Carla was dating Raffael's father.
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:16 pm   Post subject: Re: Happy New Year   

nicki wrote:
Dear All,

I have posted a new PPT on sample collection and DNA analysis interpretation. It's quite short and simple-I hope it addresses some of the most common questions about DNA collection and results.

Happy New Year everyone!
Nicki


Thank you Nicki for your latest PPT. Great work!
:)
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Offline nicki

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:24 pm   Post subject: Re: Happy New Year   

Jools wrote:
nicki wrote:
Dear All,

I have posted a new PPT on sample collection and DNA analysis interpretation. It's quite short and simple-I hope it addresses some of the most common questions about DNA collection and results.

Happy New Year everyone!
Nicki


Thank you Nicki for your latest PPT. Great work!
:)

Thank you Jools, and Happy New Year! :D
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Offline nicki

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:39 pm   Post subject: Re: A star is born   

Skeptical Bystander wrote:
Indie wrote:

Quote:
MSNBC is reporting on the Infamous Amanda Knox also.


It is a dubious achievement to be more "newsworthy" than Sarah Palin, who was probably more detested in Europe than in America (if that is possible), and Carla Bruni, former top model, mediocre singer and musician, infamous for sleeping with some of the biggest names in rock, including Mick Jaggar and Eric Clapton, and for stealing Raffael Enhoven, the young husband of Justine Lévy, daughter of Bernard Henri Lévy, while Carla was dating Raffael's father.


I think there is be a missunderstanding about the meaning of the word "popular "that doesn't necessarily have a positive connotation in the Italian language.

While it is true Knox has received a lot of attention from the media, this doesn't make her "popular" in the English sense, but rather " famous" or better "infamous". For a number of reasons (young, foreign, pretty female student), Knox has stirred the interest of many, but surely not in a sympathetic way.
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:42 pm   Post subject:    

Same to you Nicki.

Felice Anno Nuovo!!
:)
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Offline indie


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:03 pm   Post subject: Re: A star is born   

nicki wrote:
Skeptical Bystander wrote:
Indie wrote:

Quote:
MSNBC is reporting on the Infamous Amanda Knox also.


It is a dubious achievement to be more "newsworthy" than Sarah Palin, who was probably more detested in Europe than in America (if that is possible), and Carla Bruni, former top model, mediocre singer and musician, infamous for sleeping with some of the biggest names in rock, including Mick Jaggar and Eric Clapton, and for stealing Raffael Enhoven, the young husband of Justine Lévy, daughter of Bernard Henri Lévy, while Carla was dating Raffael's father.


I think there is be a missunderstanding about the meaning of the word "popular "that doesn't necessarily have a positive connotation in the Italian language.

While it is true Knox has received a lot of attention from the media, this doesn't make her "popular" in the English sense, but rather " famous" or better "infamous". For a number of reasons (young, foreign, pretty female student), Knox has stirred the interest of many, but surely not in a sympathetic way.



Yes, Nicki we get it. We have been down that road before with OJ. We totally understand this phenomenon and in no way feel the Italians view Amanda as a "popular" person because of her stellar Jesuit education and athletic skills. That is exactly why I said "INFAMOUS", she is popular for all the WRONG reasons. Our media doesn't always do a very good job of pointing this out and thus it could be interpreted as you describe, but knowledgeable folks are in the know about how the Italians really feel about the one and only Amanda Knox. r-((
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:43 pm   Post subject:    

Indie wrote:

Quote:
Yes, Nicki we get it. We have been down that road before with OJ. We totally understand this phenomenon and in no way feel the Italians view Amanda as a "popular" person because of her stellar Jesuit education and athletic skills. That is exactly why I said "INFAMOUS", she is popular for all the WRONG reasons. Our media doesn't always do a very good job of pointing this out and thus it could be interpreted as you describe, but knowledgeable folks are in the know about how the Italians really feel about the one and only Amanda Knox.


To the credit of the journalist reporting from London, she tried to convey this idea, but the anchor appeared not to quite get it. The poll has to do with notoriety and proves that those polled were following the "people press" headlines in 2008. Incidentally, KING 5 (the local NBC affiliate in Seattle) is running an interview with Curt K and Edda M on Tuesday night at 11 pm (GMT is +8 hours, +9 in Italy). I'm sure it will be available via the station's web site. We'll keep you posted. Based on the kicker, nothing new -- claims of a botched investigation, a corrupt prosecutor, tabloid/media persecution, shots of a tearful Edda, etc.
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Offline indie


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:10 pm   Post subject:    

Skeptical Bystander wrote:
Incidentally, KING 5 (the local NBC affiliate in Seattle) is running an interview with Curt K and Edda M on Tuesday night at 11 pm (GMT is +8 hours, +9 in Italy). I'm sure it will be available via the station's web site. We'll keep you posted. Based on the kicker, nothing new -- claims of a botched investigation, a corrupt prosecutor, tabloid/media persecution, shots of a tearful Edda, etc.




How come Edda NEVER does any interviews with her current loving husband, a.k.a. Amanda's stepfather? Odd, (at least it is for me) that he has not been a part of ONE TV interview. If I were Edda. I would want my husband by my side on some of these interviews not only for support but to demonstrate a solid, caring family. It is like he isn't even part of the family.
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Offline Mutley


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:54 am   Post subject:    

It's a definite strategic error not having Chris Mellas in the TV interviews. With his calm thoughtfullness, generous humanity and incisive intellect he could only demonstrate the angelic atmosphere that the suffering martyr was raised in. He would instantly dispel that nagging feeling that she's bonkers, has lived in her own fantasy world and is utterly self centered to the point of narcissism and possible outbursts of malicious anger when the fantasy is challenged. With such a level headed surrogate father as CM this cannot possibly be true. Curt on the other hand just sits and looks tearful and resigned. I guess they think that quiet emotional blackmail is a better gambit that CM opening his mouth.
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Offline indie


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:08 pm   Post subject:    

Mutley wrote:
It's a definite strategic error not having Chris Mellas in the TV interviews. With his calm thoughtfullness, generous humanity and incisive intellect he could only demonstrate the angelic atmosphere that the suffering martyr was raised in. He would instantly dispel that nagging feeling that she's bonkers, has lived in her own fantasy world and is utterly self centered to the point of narcissism and possible outbursts of malicious anger when the fantasy is challenged. With such a level headed surrogate father as CM this cannot possibly be true. Curt on the other hand just sits and looks tearful and resigned. I guess they think that quiet emotional blackmail is a better gambit that CM opening his mouth.




EXACTLY, my thoughts Mutley! And to think they didn't even give Chris a trial run, makes one wonder... :mrgreen:
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:45 pm   Post subject: Just thinking aloud   

Indie wrote:

Quote:
How come Edda NEVER does any interviews with her current loving husband, a.k.a. Amanda's stepfather? Odd, (at least it is for me) that he has not been a part of ONE TV interview. If I were Edda. I would want my husband by my side on some of these interviews not only for support but to demonstrate a solid, caring family. It is like he isn't even part of the family.


Mutley wrote:

Quote:
It's a definite strategic error not having Chris Mellas in the TV interviews. With his calm thoughtfullness, generous humanity and incisive intellect he could only demonstrate the angelic atmosphere that the suffering martyr was raised in. He would instantly dispel that nagging feeling that she's bonkers, has lived in her own fantasy world and is utterly self centered to the point of narcissism and possible outbursts of malicious anger when the fantasy is challenged. With such a level headed surrogate father as CM this cannot possibly be true. Curt on the other hand just sits and looks tearful and resigned. I guess they think that quiet emotional blackmail is a better gambit that CM opening his mouth.


I think the decision was made early on to package and present an image - of a united nuclear family - that the PR firm thought would make the public more sympathetic to Knox and also more likely to believe in her "normalcy." It's as if they are operating with a faulty, 1950's model and just could not see past it. Somebody seems to have decided that the notion of a blended family would shock some key demographic sub-set. The only one I can think of is my mother's (the over 70 cohort, Catholic), and even she and her friends have had to get over the divorce and remarriage taboo or risk being cut off from their own children, grandchildren, step-grandchildren and so on.

Remember how Chris Mellas the poster, whose personality Mutley so accurately describes :lol:, insisted early on that we refer to AK as his daughter and not his stepdaughter? He has since dropped that demand, by the way. But the point is, that insistence says something about the family dynamic. I think Curt Knox stepped in when Amanda was arrested and took over, usurping Chris Mellas's role and forcing him out of the spotlight. Knox then did what any corporate executive would do in a crisis: he hired a PR firm to do damage control and image shaping. The PR firm said what the client wanted to hear: that he would be a more appropriate head of household figure in media appearances. When I see Curt and Edda being interviewed, I see two people who are not comfortable together. It would surprise me to learn that Curt Knox had really played a key role in raising Amanda. I think we are being asked to believe this useful fiction. And I think this makes Chris Mellas angry.
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Offline Jumpy


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:38 pm   Post subject:    

Happy New Year everyone!

Just catching up and I too am sad not to see the precious Chris Mellas grace the television screen and woo us with
his stories of positive fathering.

As for Edda, some of the pics I've seen of her and Curt are strange. I think she still has the hots for him. That family is [fade]strange![/fade]
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:30 pm   Post subject: German press reports   

A new year has come and I wish all who visit this site a good year ahead and a special thank you to Michael and all those who have contributed to the site. It is a time for expressing hope that we can, collectively, work towards a resolution of this horrible crime and see that justice is served.

Over the holidays, I have been reading German press reports and discovered several articles on the case in “Die Welt” (“The World”). I’m posting the links below for the benefit of the German-speaking/-reading members. I’m sure that Ferdi, a regular poster on Candace’s blog, would be able to read the on-line version of the paper and inform the hostess :):

Amanda Knox – the Ice-cold Angel of Perugia

Amanda Knox - der eiskalte Engel von Perugia

Deadly Play of Light and Shadow

Tödliches Spiel mit Licht und Schatten

One report is in English:

Amanda Knox – Murder Suspect in Prison Movie

So far there hasn’t been anything new, the same old news, the same pictures. I’m posting the list more for the sake of completeness, to show that journalists from other countries are paying close attention to the crime in Perugia as well.

Happy New Year to all! You may notice I’ve added an avatar to comments, not that I make many but I like the new look, i.e. a New Year – a new avatar. One can hardly discern any details on a book cover of Proust's Le Côté de Guermantes :).

Le Côté de Guermantes
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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:33 pm   Post subject:    

Hi Guermantes,

Happy New Year to you too. I hope to see more posts from you during the trial.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:09 am   Post subject: only 10 days remaining   

Thanks TM. Let the trial begin! I can’t wait to see the two suspects squirm when their motives, and other misdeeds are exposed.
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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:46 am   Post subject:    

Hi Guermantes,

The trial will give everyone the opportunity to see just how formidable the evidence against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito is. As Fast Pete often points out: most of the 10,000 pages of evidence have not yet been publicly revealed. The verdict is a foregone conclusion.

You may have noticed there hasn't been a spate of magazine and newspaper articles, and television documentaries recently, claiming that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are being railroaded. It'll be very interesting to see if the high profile media figures who were shouting this from the rooftops a few months ago, will making similar proclamations before the trial. There hasn't been a squeak from the likes of Paul Ciolino, Joe Tacopina etc., who were previously very vocal. It's not like them to be so diffident. I suspect they are more than happy for Candace Dempsey to carry the torch (poisoned chalice) without them.

I'm also looking forward to Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito squirming when their motives and misdeeds are exposed. There will be no hiding place in court. The eyes of the world's media will upon them. Everyone wants to hear the truth. Multiple alibis, repeated lies, silly stories about bathmat shuffles, shaking fits, hitting oneself violently on the head and refusing to answer any difficult questions will not do.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:06 am   Post subject: Amanda Was Coerced   

Investigators: Amanda Knox's family says confession coerced


...KING 5 Investigator Linda Byron asked them: "Did she change her story?"

Edda Mellas responded: "No, no. For this whole year they have maintained the story - what they did that night. They stayed at Raffaele's, they made dinner, they watched a movie. That’s it, that's the story."

Then what of Amanda’s so-called confessions? Her parents say she didn't even know she was a suspect until Raffaele was called in for questioning five days after Meredith Kercher was found murdered.

"She was just flat scared to be alone," Curt said. "So she went down to the police station with him and they were split into two rooms and then they started going at them. With physical and mental abuse for 14 hours. No food, water, no official interpreter."

Prosecutors say Amanda’s accounts swung wildly: She wasn't at the cottage the night of the murder. She was there, but drunk in another room.

But her parents say she was coerced by police...


"(They said) you know, you're never going to see your family again," Curt said. "You're going to jail for 30 years. You need to come up with something for us, you're a liar. Come up with something for us. Envision something; throw something out there." ...


One story Amanda threw out was that the Patrick Lumumba, owner of the club where she and Meredith worked, was responsible. He was later cleared and many of Amanda’s statements were thrown out by a judge...


"We have to keep hoping," Edda said.

"When they look at the evidence, true evidence, she's free," Curt said. "We're done with this."

KING 5 Investigator Linda Byron asked Curt and Edda: "What's your greatest fear?"

Curt said: "She had nothing to do with this and I guess my greatest fear is we'll run out of options."

Then there's the physical evidence. The alleged murder weapon – a knife - was found in Raffaele's apartment. Prosecutors say Meredith’s DNA is on the blade and Amanda’s is on the handle.

But the defense is challenging that evidence, saying it's a cooking knife so it's logical Amanda’s DNA would be on the handle.

More importantly, the defense says the DNA on the blade isn't blood and isn't a definite match for Meredith, plus the knife itself doesn't match the stab wounds.


NWCN

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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:06 am   Post subject:    

Hi All and a happy new year! Sorry I haven't posted for ages but the case has been quiet over Xmas (discussing Amanda's thermals is not my cup of tea, I don't think I could care less whether she is cold or boiling in jail :D ) and I've been doing a bit of visiting of family in Europe sans internet!

In response to Michael's post above, I cannot believe they are still trotting out this 14 hour crap! It has been proven time and time again by independent witnesses that there is no way in hell that Amanda was questioned for 14 hours! Unless Perugia police station inhabits a time bubble. And I've been watching way too many Dr Who box sets over Xmas...

Just watch the media in the next ten days. Edda and Curt now know full well that Amanda is 100 different kinds of guilty and will be found so in court. Their campaign of misinformation is going to go into overdrive so that the inevitable guilty verdict is met with sympathy as dear sweet Amanda could never be capable of such hideousness. It'll never work. I went to three European countries over the Xmas break and struggled to find a single person convinced of Amanda's innocence, my cousin's Italian boyfriend actually laughed out loud when I said "is there a chance she'll get off", No f-ing chance was the gist of his reply!
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:33 pm   Post subject: As tears go by   

Welcome back, Daisy.
I happened to watch the KING 5 treatment. It contained no new information, the same old story, now 14 hours of torture at the hands of police, no interpreter says Edda, no professional interpreter corrects Curt.
Oh, there is one new factoid: the only reason AK went with RS to the police station was that she was afraid to be alone! And imagine her surprise when they were immediately separated and grilled! For 14 hours!
And one new error: that AK and MK both worked for Patrick at Le Chic. Hmmm....
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:48 pm   Post subject:    

Mutley wrote:
It's a definite strategic error not having Chris Mellas in the TV interviews. With his calm thoughtfullness, generous humanity and incisive intellect he could only demonstrate the angelic atmosphere that the suffering martyr was raised in. He would instantly dispel that nagging feeling that she's bonkers, has lived in her own fantasy world and is utterly self centered to the point of narcissism and possible outbursts of malicious anger when the fantasy is challenged. With such a level headed surrogate father as CM this cannot possibly be true. Curt on the other hand just sits and looks tearful and resigned. I guess they think that quiet emotional blackmail is a better gambit that CM opening his mouth.


This is really good! I laughed out loud. Welcome to Mutley!

And I think Knox's claiming Mellas calls her an "obtuse retard" is a pretty clear indicator of how they, ah, get along.

I wonder if Mellas and Pa Knox have ever been close to coming to blows.
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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:54 pm   Post subject:    

Hi Skep, the parents are really getting more and more ridiculous aren't they? There was an interpretor at the questioning (it never was an interrogation, that is an insult to people who have been interrogated, Amanda wasn't waterboarded contrary to the spin from her parents!), if that interpretor could speak both English and Italian fluently, then thats good enough. The fact that the person may not have relied on translation for their job is neither here nor there, their ability to do the job is what is important. I've paid for some shocking translations from so called experts so that doesn't hold water. Now consider that in one short interview, the BS is flowing fast n free and is apparent to all watching. What will a judge make of all of this bearing in mind the grounds for her house arrest being rejected? Idiots, the pair of them!

I thought that Knox & Meredith did work together, albeit briefly? I could swear I've read an interview with Patrick about MK's cocktail making skills and AK being incapable of serving a customer without flirting outreageously? I understood this to be a big source of tension between the girls, particularly as I'm sure Patrick had started offering more shifts to MK than AK and planned to sack AK? Prepared to be wrong but sure my memory is close to correct! :D
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:59 pm   Post subject: Re: Amanda Was Coerced   

Michael wrote:
Investigators: Amanda Knox's family says confession coerced... KING 5 Investigator Linda Byron asked them: "Did she change her story?"


Michael, those talking points yet again that we're going to put under the microscope from 50 different angles.

Any of our Seattle friends care to tell us if Linda Byron matters? Does she merit a "correctional post"?

We hear that the TJMK posts on Peter Popham and Marta Falconi in Rome got back to them for sure.

Ol' Popham has been distinctly quiet for the past few weeks. Please keep an eye out for his next report?!

These are not very good reporters. But there are also some real superstars inclining in our direction.
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:12 pm   Post subject:    

daisysteiner wrote:
I thought that Knox & Meredith did work together, albeit briefly?


Hi Daisy:

Michael has observed that there are two bar-related jobs for students in Perugia - handing out pamphlets, and waitressing in the bar.

I hadnt read that they had waitressed together in the bar, but if so, that is interesting.

Take a look at Michael's post of the main Timeline on TJMK

Scroll down to the comments. Michael suggests there that Patrick may have fired Knox on Halloween night, and then later at a disco made an offer to Meredith.

I wondered if Patrick may not have actually completed firing Knox (that unknown text exchange) but maybe did offer a job to Meredith in the wee hours.

Then if there were cross words exchanged at the house before the tormenting of Meredith began, among the cross words might have been Meredith saying "Patrick just offered me your job".

That might help explain a virulent flare-up (if there was one) and also Knox then framing Patrick as the perp in revenge.
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:22 pm   Post subject: Re: German press reports   

guermantes wrote:
I have been reading German press reports...


Fourth in readership at TJMK is Germany. (Fifth is Russia.) I can think of three reasons.

One, Italy is Germany's favorite vacation destination, so huge numbers of germans know and love the country.

Two, Guede was arrested there.

Three, Knox was the one and only intern in like 500 years to walk off a job at the Bundstag. Take that, you pesky Germans!!!

Russia's angle has me beat, but we'll figure it out...
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:13 pm   Post subject: Is truthiness hereditary?   

Daisy wrote:

Quote:
Hi Skep, the parents are really getting more and more ridiculous aren't they? There was an interpretor at the questioning (it never was an interrogation, that is an insult to people who have been interrogated, Amanda wasn't waterboarded contrary to the spin from her parents!), if that interpretor could speak both English and Italian fluently, then thats good enough. The fact that the person may not have relied on translation for their job is neither here nor there, their ability to do the job is what is important. I've paid for some shocking translations from so called experts so that doesn't hold water. Now consider that in one short interview, the BS is flowing fast n free and is apparent to all watching. What will a judge make of all of this bearing in mind the grounds for her house arrest being rejected? Idiots, the pair of them!


First of all, like most of us AK's parents were not present when AK was questioned (and I agree with you on the use of the word interrogation, which I have always avoided) and so they only know what they have been told. Edda Mellas first claimed there was no interpreter on the ABC treatment of the case way back in February 2008, and the Italian investigators issued a correction the following day. The correction was carried by CNN. Since then, they have shifted to the claim that the interpreter was not a professional. I'm with you on that one, and I speak as someone in the business of translation. Whether or not the interpreter was court-appointed (assermenté in French) is beside the point. The fact is, somebody lied (AK to her parents? her parents to the press?) at the outset about the presence of an interpreter and now they are focusing on his or her credentials to divert attention from their own tactic, which is to state things as fact which are not true and hope for the best. For anyone paying attention, this tactic makes them look dishonest and one can't help but reflect upon AK's own honesty as a result.


Daisy added:

Quote:
I thought that Knox & Meredith did work together, albeit briefly? I could swear I've read an interview with Patrick about MK's cocktail making skills and AK being incapable of serving a customer without flirting outreageously? I understood this to be a big source of tension between the girls, particularly as I'm sure Patrick had started offering more shifts to MK than AK and planned to sack AK? Prepared to be wrong but sure my memory is close to correct!


I'm not sure. I thought Meredith was asked by Patrick if she wanted to serve vodka mohitos one night a week but never got the chance to do so. In any case, I have never seen it reported that the two worked together at Le Chic.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:18 pm   Post subject: Linda Byron   

Pete asked:

Quote:
Any of our Seattle friends care to tell us if Linda Byron matters? Does she merit a "correctional post"?


She's the main investigative reporter for KING 5, which isn't saying much. It might be useful to post a brief correctional to the effect "why did this investigative reporter apparently not bother to watch the NBC Dateline treatment of this case before filing her own story?"
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Offline nicki

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:23 pm   Post subject: Re: Is truthiness hereditary?   

Skeptical Bystander wrote:
Daisy wrote:


Quote:
I thought that Knox & Meredith did work together, albeit briefly? I could swear I've read an interview with Patrick about MK's cocktail making skills and AK being incapable of serving a customer without flirting outreageously? I understood this to be a big source of tension between the girls, particularly as I'm sure Patrick had started offering more shifts to MK than AK and planned to sack AK? Prepared to be wrong but sure my memory is close to correct!


I'm not sure. I thought Meredith was asked by Patrick if she wanted to serve vodka mohitos one night a week but never got the chance to do so. In any case, I have never seen it reported that the two worked together at Le Chic.


Patrick Lumumba has repeated several times on different talk shows and speaking to the media that:

- he had not fired Knox but he was sorry he had hired her because of her poor performance on the job (flirting instead of attending tables etc). He said that if she had quit spontaneously he would have been happy. It 's reasonable to think that she knew her boss was not happy, perhaps he had threatened to fire her if things wouldn't get better but we do not know if and what he ever said to her.

- he had asked Meredith to work as a bartender preparing her vodka mojitos only on the upcoming "all ladies night".

If Lumumba's appreciation of Meredith bartendering skills disturbed Knox we don't know. In the same way, we could speculate-as probably Knox did- what could have come next, but the fact remains that Lumumba -as per his own words, and not through some journalist 's report-has repeatedly stated that he had not fired Knox to replace her with Meredith, nor that he had offered Meredith permanent employment at his bar.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:55 pm   Post subject: Russian press reports   

Fast Pete wrote:
Russia's angle has me beat, but we'll figure it out...


Hi Fast Pete,

A belated ‘thank you’ for posting the link to the Russian Wire Service story on the TJMK website in November:

Now our website is the subject of a Russian wire service story

It wouldn’t be too hard to guess that it has attracted record number of visitors from Russia to your site. I have been planning on translating the story since it was placed by Michael into the translators’ thread Nov. 13, and hoping I could do it over the holidays, but, as usual, hadn’t accomplished half of what I set out to do.

TJMK in NEWSru

Basically, the Russian report is a simple word-for-word translation of the story from the Croydon Guardian with some additions at the end.

(OT) By the way, today is a holiday in Russia. I’m obviously having a hard time unable to stop celebrating. Happy Orthodox Christmas to all Russians out there! The church is still following the (revised) Julian calendar of religious holidays (time to reform that one too).
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Offline DLW


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:41 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:19 am   Post subject:    

I was looking over some of the various article’s on this demonstration on Friday to show that someone could have entered thru Filomena’s window. And they will have two ex-carabinieri to help the Sollecito team. I’m not sure what they have up there sleeve. I’m just wondering if one superhuman Spiderman isn’t enough to properly demonstrate entering the premises, that they will need 2 people. 1 person helps boost the other one up to the window, and help stabilize the other while he tries to enter. This would be a major concession if that’s what is required. If there are two perps that would help explain some of the evidence. Whether it was Rudy with another unknown helper, or two completely unknown assailants. That explanation may help placate Rudy, someone they consider a loose cannon. If they go with the two perp approach, then they are going to have to do some modification’s with the lone wolf scenario. At least to show a plausible alternate theory. However, I don’t think Amanda is interested in hearing about anything involving more than one person. Whatever the case, I think they are barking up the wrong window.

PS to Spiderman: Make sure you carefully read up on your health insurance policy first before attempting anything..
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:36 am   Post subject: Re: Russian press reports   

guermantes wrote:
By the way, today is a holiday in Russia. I’m obviously having a hard time unable to stop celebrating. Happy Orthodox Christmas to all Russians out there! The church is still following the (revised) Julian calendar of religious holidays (time to reform that one too).


Are you familiar with the Russian arts community in Toronto? That is one powerhouse of extraordinary art, and we have half a dozens paintings already and more wanted. Many of the artists and dealers show up every year at the huge ArtExpo in Manhattan, and their work absolutely shines.

As for Russian drinking, I took nearly a week to get over compulsory rounds with the captain and crew of a Russian ship in southern India. Just not in practice, I guess. Happy christmas, though. Za vas!
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:56 am   Post subject: back on topic   

Hey Fast Pete,
you make me blush :oops:. I didn't mean to imply that celebrating was the same as 'drinking', just celebrating in its general sense.
Now back on topic...
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:45 am   Post subject: Welcome Back & Merry Christmas   

Daisy -

Welcome back and good posts.


Guermantes -

Happy New Year, Merry Christmas and I love your new avatar :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:54 am   Post subject: Fear   

Skep wrote:
Oh, there is one new factoid: the only reason AK went with RS to the police station was that she was afraid to be alone!


I bet she really was scared to be alone...but not of potential murderers on the loose or bumps in the night. More aptly put, she was afraid of being seperated from RS with him being questioned some distance away and her being kept out of the loop of what the hell was going on. If she stuck close to him, hopefully they may have been questioned together and if not, she'd have been the first to find out what the score was when he walked out of the interview room. I can imagine the idea of her sitting in his apartment thinking of him alone with the police and imagining what he 'may' have been saying would would have been a rather scary prospect...especially if she had something to hide.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:17 am   Post subject: Re: Happy New Year   

nicki wrote:
Dear All,

I have posted a new PPT on sample collection and DNA analysis interpretation. It's quite short and simple-I hope it addresses some of the most common questions about DNA collection and results.

Happy New Year everyone!
Nicki


Happy New Year to you also Nicki. Excellent once again. Thanks so much for putting the work into that, it should help our readers enormously :)

For those of you who haven't seen it yet, you can view it HERE

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:27 am   Post subject: It's All About Control   

On Michael's take on Knox, the second comment above.

Run this by me again? Sollecito got a call to come by the police station? And Knox didn't?

I can believe Michael if those really were the preceding events and the fond parents tell us the truth.

She was rightly iffy about Raff. He did stray off the reservation. Still seems to be doing so.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:45 am   Post subject: Re: It's All About Control   

Fast Pete wrote:
On Michael's take on Knox, the second comment above.

Run this by me again? Sollecito got a call to come by the police station? And Knox didn't?

I can believe Michael if those really were the preceding events and the fond parents tell us the truth.

She was rightly iffy about Raff. He did stray off the reservation. Still seems to be doing so.




Hi Pete. Well, I wasn't meaning to suggest that Amanda feared Raf was 'iffy', as I've seen no evidence to suggest she did. What I really meant was fear due to 'lack of control'. In being seperated from Raf whilst he was at the police station, it would have taken all means of control of the situation away...accompanying Raf to the police station would have been her means of retaining some of it...being where the action was, action that could have consequenses. If one isn't there, one is powerless to 'effect' and even worse, ignorant as to what exactly is going on...not in control. Not being in control is a scary thing for people, at least, when it's in regard to something that effects their own life.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:01 am   Post subject:    

Hello all!

Thanks for the clarification over the employment situation, I knew there was talk but keeping track of every single thing in this case is a full time job and for a memory much better than mine!

I understand Michael's point when he says AK would have been nervous by herself due to her lack of control. In her situation, I think I'd stick to Raf like glue too. If she was at the police station, yet they were questioned seperately, she could start the "silly little italian stoner has a bad memory, let me explain, officer..." damage control as soon as Raf put his foot in it. That's difficult to do when you're at home and don't know what is happening.

Again, correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the Perugia memorial for Meredith the same night as Raf's visit to the copshop? Perhaps Amanda might have like to go meet her housemates (for safety of course) then attend the memorial in a group. AK's lack of attendence (and lack of effort to attend - Edda has dropped AK in it yet again by spinning the story of why AK wasn't at the memorial, Wasn't the original story the fact the AK was called to the police station and not just Raf?) at that event is still one of the biggest question marks over her...granted, I get the impression that MK's UK mates made it clear that they did not like AK, which may have put her off. I'd have still made the effort though for my friend, I don't like all of my friend's friends but I don't avoid gatherings cos they are there!

I hope the window demonstration on Friday is as hilarious as I think it will be. Some muppet's going to try and scale the wall aren't they after throwing stones...is there a live feed, I'll get the popcorn for the Jackass style falling-off-the-wall-then-trying-again-n-again-in-vain spectacle it will turn into.
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:39 pm   Post subject:    

daisysteiner wrote:
Wasn't the original story the fact the AK was called to the police station and not just Raf?


I'm still wondering whether the fond parents are spinning us (for the x+1 time) and there was no psychological driver.

Interrogating the duo simultaneously but separately would seem to be the normal police procedure.

Michael, I wonder if you have the answer there among your enormous resources?

I think you and and Daisy have got it about right if there was a psychological driver.

daisysteiner wrote:
I hope the window demonstration on Friday is as hilarious as I think it will be.... I'll get the popcorn for the Jackass style falling-off-the-wall-then-trying-again-n-again-in-vain spectacle it will turn into.


Plus the quiet throwing of a four-kilo rock so that no-one actually hears it, the breaking of the glass just-so in the same pattern (Kermit showed why that is so very important), and the extreme contortion needed (without a scratch from the broken glass) to open the window-lock mechanism around the back of the northerm of the two windows.

Rock-throwing is a very rare option in burglar school, by the way. This could help the defense to narrow down to who REALLY did it...
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Offline Fly by Night


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:23 pm   Post subject: Re: Linda Byron   

Skeptical Bystander wrote:
Pete asked:

Quote:
Any of our Seattle friends care to tell us if Linda Byron matters? Does she merit a "correctional post"?


She's the main investigative reporter for KING 5, which isn't saying much. It might be useful to post a brief correctional to the effect "why did this investigative reporter apparently not bother to watch the NBC Dateline treatment of this case before filing her own story?"


I only fly by night, but daytripper did take issue with Linda Byron's investigative techniques over at the king5.com site:

Daytripper wrote:
In-depth and exclusive coverage of the murder of Meredith Kercher? Wow! I'm left wondering how much the Knox family was paid for this "exclusive" interview and exactly how many minutes of research Ms. Byron actually put into this embarrassingly shallow King5 Investigators report. Everything presented here has been seen and heard many times over in numerous media outlets, so Byron: I’m sayin’ you got Punk'd!

Byron should have at least taken the time to "investigate" the December 8th 2008 Dateline report on the case for some meaningful supporting material. Instead, all Byron delivers are the same old recycled denials from the Knox family, such as "100% innocent" and "not involved in any way". I respect the family's right to say and believe whatever they want, but this is nowhere near "investigative" reporting.

Has the Knox family somehow failed to realize that Amanda has not only been charged with the murder of Meredith Kercher, but also with the charge of slander for her allegedly false accusation Patrick Lumumba; a charge that could get her 6 to 20 years on its own? If the police somehow coerced or beat this false accusation/confession out of her in a brutal 14-hour session (during which she somehow managed to phone her roommates to ask if they would still consider rooming with her), then why aren't Amanda's lawyers protesting this alleged abuse along with the slander charge in the courts - or at the very least in the media? The Knox lawyers remain silent on these issues. Furthermore, why would the Italian courts let Amanda's written accusation (provided voluntarily, after she became a suspect) of Lumumba still stand as evidence against her as she goes to trial?

These are just a few of the questions I was hoping Byron would ask the Knox family; questions that a real investigative reporter would have asked to at least give them an opportunity to address the multitude of deeper issues that have troubled so many of us about this case from the start.
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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:38 pm   Post subject: KNOX'S 7-2-07 RUN IN WITH THE LAW IN SEATTLE   

Hi Everyone,

I hope everyone had a great holiday season and HAPPY NEW YEAR! :D

Well, I have disappointing news, yet intriguing as well.

Since I had other business in downtown Seattle, I thought I'd tackle the acquisition of Amanda Knox's incident report of 7/2/07. Armed with the attached information gleaned from internet public records at Seattle.gov I finally found the correct records department after 3 stops in various government buildings.

The procedure is quite simple. You complete a form with your name, address, case number, etc. You stand in line and upon reaching the clerk's window, produce your ID and the completed form. Then the clerk checks her computer and leaves her desk and retrieves a copy of the file for you and off you go. I watched several people in front of me obtain their information this way.

It's my turn. I hand her my form and proceed to get my ID out of my wallet. She curtly asks "WHO gave you this case number and do you have a card?" I asked "what card?", and she replied "the policeman's card". I told her no, and she then told me this was not a correct number and she would have to investigate obtaining of the file further. She said it would take her awhile as there were several other people she had to help at the time. There was nobody behind me in line, and I saw everyone in front of me obtain what they needed and leave, so this didn't make sense.

I had only paid for 2 hours parking and my time was almost expired, so I didn't have time to wait around for her "investigation". I took my completed form and left. My friend (who doesn't follow this case) was surprised at the clerk's attitude regarding this, and frankly, so was I.

What the hell is in that report? Did someone pull some strings and have the file somehow "hidden" from the public? What I was asking for was rather routine, and something just wasn't right.

Things that make you go hmmm. :?



Last edited by Tara on Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:51 pm   Post subject:    

FBN quoted Daytripper:

Quote:
These are just a few of the questions I was hoping Byron would ask the Knox family; questions that a real investigative reporter would have asked to at least give them an opportunity to address the multitude of deeper issues that have troubled so many of us about this case from the start.


There was nothing investigatory about Byron's work. KING 5 might as well have put their lifestyle reporter on it. In fact, with the matching orange tops the couple wore against the soft yellow-orange background, had I not had the sound turned on I might have thought it was a piece about Northwest living. My guess is that Marriott only offers access to journalists and media that agree not to raise the deeper issues.

Tara wrote:

Quote:
What the hell is in that report? Did Judge Heavy pull some strings and have the file somehow "hidden" from the public? What I was asking for was rather routine, and something just wasn't right.


It is too bad Linda Byron did not ask these very questions. If, as the family claims, this citation was a routine matter, then why has it not been produced? They can't have it both ways. And yet, that's what they have asked for, over and over. I'd like to raise this challenge to the Friends of Amanda: prove that this incident is without importance by making the officer's report and other documents available.
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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:13 pm   Post subject: KING 5 INTERVIEW   

Skep wrote:
Quote:
There was nothing investigatory about Byron's work. KING 5 might as well have put their lifestyle reporter on it. In fact, with the matching orange tops the couple wore against the soft yellow-orange background, had I not had the sound turned on I might have thought it was a piece about Northwest living. My guess is that Marriott only offers access to journalists and media that agree not to raise the deeper issues.


It appears this interview took place back in November, part of which was aired on November 26,2008 here:

KING5 INTERVIEW 11/26/08

So you're right - fall colors associated with Thanksgiving as it aired the day before! Incidentally, it took place "in a Seattle living room" (I wonder whos?) You can compare their wardrobe here:

KING5 INTERVIEW 1/6/09

So, KING is just broadcasting parts that didn't air over a month ago - not a current interview at all. More stellar and up to date coverage from Knox's hometown of Seattle. :roll:
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:22 pm   Post subject:    

Skep, Tara, FBN and all present company: Very very helpful remarks on the King5 report. I am sure Linda will be grateful for our helpful pointers.

Please post here or email the questions that you most want future journalists to ask? 500 or so would probably do, just for starters.

And if David Marriott comes by: David, please email the 500 questions you most DONT want to be asked. Check is in the mail as always.
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:38 pm   Post subject: Re: KING 5 INTERVIEW   

Tara wrote:
Skep wrote:
Quote:
There was nothing investigatory about Byron's work. KING 5 might as well have put their lifestyle reporter on it. In fact, with the matching orange tops the couple wore against the soft yellow-orange background, had I not had the sound turned on I might have thought it was a piece about Northwest living. My guess is that Marriott only offers access to journalists and media that agree not to raise the deeper issues.


It appears this interview took place back in November, part of which was aired on November 26,2008 here:

KING5 INTERVIEW 11/26/08

So you're right - fall colors associated with Thanksgiving as it aired the day before! Incidentally, it took place "in a Seattle living room" (I wonder whos?) You can compare their wardrobe here:

KING5 INTERVIEW 1/6/09

So, KING is just broadcasting parts that didn't air over a month ago - not a current interview at all. More stellar and up to date coverage from Knox's hometown of Seattle. :roll:


Hi Tara,

Yes, same interview as seen before, same old mantra, they have nothing new to add!

"The Seattle living room" to me looks like a hotel suite, lots of media when doing interviews tend to do this sort of thing. I don't think that would be the Mellas house, the size of the fire place is bigger than the whole house, and I doubt the current Mrs knox would allow the previous Mrs. knox into her living room after all the commotion and disturbance ex-Mrs Knox little angel is causing to her life.
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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:59 pm   Post subject: RAW CRIME SCENE FOOTAGE WITH AUDIO   

I know this would be a HUGE task, (but so appreciated) for our astute Italian speakers; I was wondering if any of you could take a look at this 5:03 raw crime scene footage that was posted on KING5. It's the first time I've heard the CSI people talking to one another, and it might be interesting to have a translation of what they are discussing as they are gathering evidence. There is quite a bit of discussion.

Thank you so much in advance! :)

RAW CRIME SCENE VIDEO WITH AUDIO


Last edited by Tara on Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Jools


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Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:38 pm

Posts: 2241

Location: Spain

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:29 pm   Post subject: Re: RAW CRIME SCENE FOOTAGE WITH AUDIO   

Tara wrote:
I know this would be a HUGE task, (but so appreciated) for our astute Italian speakers; I was wondering if any of you could take a look at this 5:03 raw crime scene footage that was posted on KING5. It the first time I've heard the CSI people talking to one another, and it might be interesting to have a translation of what they are discussing as they are gathering evidence. There is quite a bit of discussion.

Thank you so much in advance! :)

RAW CRIME SCENE VIDEO WITH AUDIO


Sorry Tara, I try but I can't make out much of it apart form the Lady CSI saying out loud what she finds, I presume to a colleague thats writing down what she says.

The first thing she says to him is that the blood stain in 10 Cm high from the mattress and the colleague reconfirms back to her the same as she said, then as she is doing the door she says to him the inside handle and someone shouts, is it 4B? she confirms it is. Then she does the lock and confirms is the bedroom door lock, calls it 4C and shouts out for a probetta I think it means test tube. Then I couldn't hear very well, the sound goes down, but they are talking about the bathroom I think is the shower base, not to sure and I can't not really make out anything else apart from some one in the background asking whether the cadaver was in the actual bedroom. Sorry.

We need Bella Nicki here!!!
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Offline Jools


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Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:38 pm

Posts: 2241

Location: Spain

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:25 pm   Post subject: Declinations of Frank   

“Johannes factotum” AKA Frank Sfarzo. :lol:

The Film Professor, Moviemaker, Investigative Journalist, Quiz Expert, Italian Truffles-Wine Purvoyer and also… Yes, there is more…

Wasn’t the IW AKA The Cook, saying not so long ago that Frank was not living in Perugia at the time of Meredith Kercher murder and that he specially moved there because he wanted to blog about the case so the people in Perugia would contribute with information about the murder?
Ha! Seems he was bloging about Perugia a year before Meredith’s murder.

In this Perugia blog his ‘Nom de Plume’ is ToBeFrankNow.
Not a very successful blog again, zero comments, he is a Billy no mates there. Yes, he has a link to his other not very successful Truffles blog.

Here is the link:
http://www.blogexplosion.com/profile.ph ... BeFrankNow

I C/P as the link doesn’t always work. This is what he writes:

***
“All about Perugia, the town of students"
"Criticizing, living, partying, eating, finding a room, studying, going around.
1/9/06 11:13 am - Eating out. Restaurants, Pizzerias, Piadinerias, Cafeterias, etc. Top places and surviving..."
“All about Perugia,Italy. The beautiful town between Rome and Florence where people from all over the world go to study italian, to attend american or italian schools and to have fun. Also includes the right housing information.”

“Restaurants
Restaurants in the center of Perugia are, in general, not that good. At least for a demanding palate, like personally I'm trying to have. With the due exceptions I've stopped eating in restaurants in this town. You eat little quantity, poor quality and you pay a lot. When going to a restaurant doesn't give you any pleasure better eating at home, where you can have fun in cooking and eating together with your friends.
The exceptions are La Malacucina, which is the restaurant of Caffe di Perugia and is set inside it, and La Taverna. They are both located around Corso Vannucci. In these two places for a complete meal you have to plan about 100 €. But you can be satisfied even with just two or three courses.
Particularly at Malacucina's they have some great antipasto (starters) which often are as large as a full meal of one of the cheapest restaurants (the ones where I don't go anymore). Some of their antipasti are indeed a triumph of unbelievable food with great ingredients put together in a very special way, often even spectacular as a composition.
In such a restaurant with having just an antipasto, a first course (pasta, rice or soup) and a dessert you can eat and spend as much as in a cheap restaurant but eating really in a great way. Then, if you can effort, you can have also second course (meat or fish), side course (salad) cheese and a great wine (and also amaro, caffè and ammazzacaffè.... as some italians do).
The weak point, also in Malacucina and Taverna, is the service, not that professional. But... Who cares? At least you can save on the tip....
The only other restaurant downtown I could recommend is l'Altromondo, where you spend around 60€ for a complete meal. They cook well, but it's not that they have a real personality, they don't really create anything new. I would not even try any other restaurants besides the three above mentioned, you'd just meet fake food an wine, you think you save money but you don't.

Then, there are a few good restaurants out of the center or completely out of town, in the Umbria region. But it would be too long talking about those. I just want to suggest one, good for some special occasions, if you can effort and if you are able to reach the lake of Corbara (you need a car, being about 70 km from Perugia).
On the shores of that lake (a "fake" lake, meaning artificial) indeed, completely isolated from the rest of the world, is located the restaurant of one of the country's best cooks, Mr Vissani, made recently famous by tv. Vissani is a great Maestro of food, and in his namesake restaurant, being one of the country's best and most expensive, you can easily spend up to 300 € for a complete meal, but it's gonna be the greatest eating experience of your life. Before going there, you better get trained with good italian way of eating, so you will have a full comprehension of that experience. And, there as well, you can have just two or three courses, limiting your bill to even 50€ (he says...).

Anyways, if you really want to go to cheap restaurants in Perugia, a least go to the cheapest ones, two real "trattoria" (cheap restaurant) that are La Botte, near via Bontempi and Mi'Cocco, near corso Garibaldi. Mi'Cocco is particular, because they make the every day's italian house cooking. So non interesting at all for an Italian. But for a foreign person can be the first step on the approach to the italian-way-to-eat and maybe to your path towards a great restaurant... Another particularity of this place is that they only serve a complete meal (primo, secondo, contorno, dessert) at a fix price (22€). Being Mi'Cocco very little you better reserve for dinner (0755732511).

Snack Bars
By the way, if you really want to spend as little as possible, there are three tavola calda (where you find the food already cooked), working mostly for lunch and sometimes for dinner, and they are no more than 20 € for a complete meal. One is in Piazza Danti, besides Caffè Turreno, another one is besides University for foreigners and the last one, which is very rustic, but is the cheapest and the best, is in via Cialdini, in the Monteluce area.

Cafeterias
If you want to spend even less, if you just need a meal for surviving, you can go to the city cafeteria (Mensa Comunale), hidden in a side street in via Antonio Fratti 1, near the square of the fountain. Complete meal about 3 €, only lunch. Or </strong>University cafeterias</strong> the Mensa universitaria, 2,80 for a complete meal, 1,80 for just primo, contorno, bread, fruit (the main one is in via Pascoli, another one is near palazzo Prosciutti and the last one is inside Agraria faculty). And good luck.

Pizzerias and Piadinerias
About pizzeria being not pizza a Perugia speciality you will not find those great ones you can have in Naples or in other towns. Many pizzerias open up and close down in the time. But the best remain Etruschetta, in Corso Garibaldi, Capri and Pompey, both in corso Cavour, run by same family.
Another single owner runs Mediterranea, in piazza Piccinino and tre Archi, at Tre Archi. They have good ingredients but their pizza is always a bit doughy, never perfectly cooked inside. That's what happens when you have an industrial oven conceived to make as many pizzas as possible "per minute". It's the fast food of pizza, a real factory of pizza. Good for the mass maybe. Not for me.
Il Segreto di Pulcinella, near corso Vannucci is ok, Tit Bit, at the bottom of via de Priori and Porta Sole, behind Cinema/Cafè Turreno, are good.
Malacucina, in Cafè di Perugia, has also a pizzeria and the chef there makes a particular pizza, crispy, thin and light. If you like it that way you should try it.
Anyways, you can try almost the all of them, just be sure they have forno a legna, meaning they cook with firewood and not electrically.
Definitely to be avoided Quattro Passi. I don't know what they put in the oven, certainly, because of the chemical smoke that i can smell everyday, not only firewood. Dangerous. As well are to be avoided, in general, all the ones advertised by "Pr's" among students. They are far away from being professional and safe, they save on ingredients, for not to talk about other things...
Anyways, the one I think is at the moment the town's best pizza is at La Casetta, at the beginning of via Annibale Vecchi. Just take away though.
Piadina. Ever tryied a piadina? It's like two little pizzas set as a sanwich in the middle of which they put prosciutto, cheese, etc. The dough is completely different from the one of pizza. The best piadineria is maybe the one of via Annibale Vecchi, but you find one also in Corso Cavour and another one near the station.

Chinese, indians, etc.
Talking about ingredients and hygiene, avoid chinese restaurants in Perugia. They only use jar food and there are serious doubts on their methods of preservation.
I saw two indian restaurants, one near Via dei Priori and another one near the train station in the piazza del Bacio... Anyone who wants to send a review of them is welcome (priority to english people).

Tips
By the way, there are many websites that can give you an introduction to the italian cooking. One that you will never find just by googling around is this blog site http://truffles-wines-and-best-italian- ... gspot.com/ . Original.

As soon as you arrive in perugia You'll be given a students guide made by an american guy which talks about anything in Perugia. I don't know what value can have a recommendation about italian food and restaurants given by an American. Then, if the guide, being free distributed, recommends you the same restaurants (and other business) who support the guide itself.....

Alright, now you know where to eat. We speak frankly here, as always. Nobody pays us. Have fun in Perugia!
0. Leave a comment
12/2/05 04:11 am - Worst Films Ever Festival
Did you know that such a film festival existed? Yes, that film festival collecting all worst and most boring movies exist! And we have it in Perugia! Its real name is Batik or Perugia Film Festival and it's on until december 4th.
A lot of money received from the government (the organizers are very close to the leftist party dominating Perugia and the state of Umbria), crowded press conference, fancy brochure, cute merchandising and then? Absolutely useless movies, just the ones that cost nothing, the ones that nobody wants.
Who cares, -organizers must say- politicians don't understand of movies, real critics don't exist, we just show the bochure and got the money. And ok like this...
Ok like this, have fun at the Batik Festival....
Tags: worst films festival batik
0. Leave a comment
12/1/05 05:59 am - If you are looking for a paradise......
If you are looking for a paradise, here it is. Perugia,the star-shaped town. Perugia,the eagle over the hill, dominating the green see of Umbria region, in the hearth of Italy. This little town, reach in masterpieces of medieval art and architecture at their best, because of the town's University school for foreigners (the most prestigious italian institution for learning italian language and culture), became the meeting point of thousands of young people coming from all over the world. You wanna say that that school, along with all other schools established in the town, is just the excuse for going to have fun in the middle of Italy? I'm not gonna say that but, as a matter of fact, as soon as you get in the town you gonna have hundreds of new friends and you gonna be taken in an endless whirlpool of partying and nightlife. At least, if you want.

By the way, this web site wants to serve whoever wants to say anything about Perugia and what happens there. The site is open to anything, from political discussion to gossip. And also it will give some information for who has to go there, or for the ones who have just arrived and they don't know, where to go to eat, how to book to the school, how to have the free entrance to the discotheque, etc.

Hint number 1: if you are looking for a room just avoid agencies, they are useless, expensive and bad. Just the all of them. You can instead write to a students email address and they will simply find the perfect and cheapest place for you, a room in shared house or a studio apartment ,etc.: perugia_housing@yahoo.com .

They will also be able to book for you the right hostel (You could do it yourself but the choise of the right hostel depends on many factors such us if you go out at night, what period of the year it is, if you come with the car or not, what school you have to do, etc.). They know everything you'll need.

Alright, see you soon!

Ciao in Perugia”

***

I must admit on this next one... I don’t know what he is trying to be or do (2befrank@gmail.com)
Perhaps some of you would have seen it before as he was asked about it once on his PS blog with no reply from him though.

Is he a financial advisor a broker or is he just playing another quiz online?

http://tinyurl.com/a9fmbd
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Offline nicki

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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:27 am

Posts: 847

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:03 am   Post subject: Re: RAW CRIME SCENE FOOTAGE WITH AUDIO   

Jools wrote:
Tara wrote:
I know this would be a HUGE task, (but so appreciated) for our astute Italian speakers; I was wondering if any of you could take a look at this 5:03 raw crime scene footage that was posted on KING5. It the first time I've heard the CSI people talking to one another, and it might be interesting to have a translation of what they are discussing as they are gathering evidence. There is quite a bit of discussion.

Thank you so much in advance! :)

RAW CRIME SCENE VIDEO WITH AUDIO


Sorry Tara, I try but I can't make out much of it apart form the Lady CSI saying out loud what she finds, I presume to a colleague thats writing down what she says.

The first thing she says to him is that the blood stain in 10 Cm high from the mattress and the colleague reconfirms back to her the same as she said, then as she is doing the door she says to him the inside handle and someone shouts, is it 4B? she confirms it is. Then she does the lock and confirms is the bedroom door lock, calls it 4C and shouts out for a probetta I think it means test tube. Then I couldn't hear very well, the sound goes down, but they are talking about the bathroom I think is the shower base, not to sure and I can't not really make out anything else apart from some one in the background asking whether the cadaver was in the actual bedroom. Sorry.

We need Bella Nicki here!!!
ù

Hi Tara and Jools,

I'd be more than happy to listen to the video if I just could download the stupid thing! Don't know why. Perhaps because I have a pop up and advertisement blocker?
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Offline Tara


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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:44 pm

Posts: 1010

Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:31 am   Post subject: Frank on Google Stock   

Jools sleuthed up:

Quote:
I must admit on this next one... I don’t know what he is trying to be or do (2befrank@gmail.com)
Perhaps some of you would have seen it before as he was asked about it once on his PS blog with no reply from him though.

Is he a financial advisor a broker or is he just playing another quiz online?

http://tinyurl.com/a9fmbd


Hi Jools! :D

What great detective work here - very interesting. I read his comments on the Google finance pages. In every post he is raving about Google stock, and how it's going to go up $100 per year so "everyone will be rich in 10 years"! I wonder if he's a paid troll here - Yahoo finance is the worst! I pity the poor people who took his advice. Trolls like that prey upon the uneducated and unfortunately, some inexperienced folks starting out trading online in the stock market listen. I know, I listened to one back in 1997 and lost $$,,,and I'll spare you the amount - it's much too embarassing! :oops:

Shame on Frank!
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Offline Michael

Site Admin


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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:46 am   Post subject: Re: KNOX'S 7-2-07 RUN IN WITH THE LAW IN SEATTLE   

Tara wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I hope everyone had a great holiday season and HAPPY NEW YEAR! :D

Well, I have disappointing news, yet intriguing as well.

Since I had other business in downtown Seattle, I thought I'd tackle the acquisition of Amanda Knox's incident report of 7/2/07. Armed with the attached information gleaned from internet public records at Seattle.gov I finally found the correct records department after 3 stops in various government buildings.

The procedure is quite simple. You complete a form with your name, address, case number, etc. You stand in line and upon reaching the clerk's window, produce your ID and the completed form. Then the clerk checks her computer and leaves her desk and retrieves a copy of the file for you and off you go. I watched several people in front of me obtain their information this way.

It's my turn. I hand her my form and proceed to get my ID out of my wallet. She curtly asks "WHO gave you this case number and do you have a card?" I asked "what card?", and she replied "the policeman's card". I told her no, and she then told me this was not a correct number and she would have to investigate obtaining of the file further. She said it would take her awhile as there were several other people she had to help at the time. There was nobody behind me in line, and I saw everyone in front of me obtain what they needed and leave, so this didn't make sense.

I had only paid for 2 hours parking and my time was almost expired, so I didn't have time to wait around for her "investigation". I took my completed form and left. My friend (who doesn't follow this case) was surprised at the clerk's attitude regarding this, and frankly, so was I.

What the hell is in that report? Did Judge Heavy pull some strings and have the file somehow "hidden" from the public? What I was asking for was rather routine, and something just wasn't right.

Things that make you go hmmm. :?




Hi Tara, great to see you back, I'd been wondering where'd you'd got to :)

Great sleuthing there Tara. It's a real pity you didn't get the goods. It may be that there was something adminsstratively amiss, but then again, you also may be right and it may be that the other side don't want the public to have access to that document...which is why we 'have' to have it. I know it's a big ask, but is there a chance you might be able to have another crack at getting it?

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline Michael

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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

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Location: England

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:51 am   Post subject: The Video   

Nicki wrote:
Hi Tara and Jools,

I'd be more than happy to listen to the video if I just could download the stupid thing! Don't know why. Perhaps because I have a pop up and advertisement blocker?


Hi Nicki, I have a similar problem...it takes forever to buffer....plays for a couple of second, buffers for another 10, plays 2 seconds, buffers for 10...and so on. I think when I'm using my other browser I'll download it and then load it up directly to the board for download.

Tara -

Thanks a lot for the link to the vid...it's most inetersting. We'd better not let the Knox Camp see it...they'll be screaming about her destroying evidence (cutting the sheet, swabbing the blood), lol.


Jools -

Thanks for the translation :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

Posts: 844

Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:39 am   Post subject: Re: The Video   

I have the flash file. It downloaded in about 10 seconds. It's rather large to email. I could upload it and provide a link.

I was not too thrilled to see several times the swabbing of rather widely separated bloodstains with a single swab.

A certain Seattle lawyer once complained about that. I dont think I'll use it without knowing what was going on.

Pete


Nicki wrote:
Hi Tara and Jools,

I'd be more than happy to listen to the video if I just could download the stupid thing! Don't know why. Perhaps because I have a pop up and advertisement blocker?
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Offline Michael

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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:11 am   Post subject: Re: The Video   

Fast Pete wrote:
I have the flash file. It downloaded in about 10 seconds. It's rather large to email. I could upload it and provide a link.

I was not too thrilled to see several times the swabbing of rather widely separated bloodstains with a single swab.

A certain Seattle lawyer once complained about that. I dont think I'll use it without knowing what was going on.

Pete


Nicki wrote:
Hi Tara and Jools,

I'd be more than happy to listen to the video if I just could download the stupid thing! Don't know why. Perhaps because I have a pop up and advertisement blocker?



Hi Pete, do you think you could e-mail that to me? That would be good of you.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline indie


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Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:15 am

Posts: 383

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:39 pm   Post subject: Re: The Video   

Fast Pete wrote:
I have the flash file. It downloaded in about 10 seconds. It's rather large to email. I could upload it and provide a link.

I was not too thrilled to see several times the swabbing of rather widely separated bloodstains with a single swab.

A certain Seattle lawyer once complained about that. I dont think I'll use it without knowing what was going on.

Pete


Nicki wrote:
Hi Tara and Jools,

I'd be more than happy to listen to the video if I just could download the stupid thing! Don't know why. Perhaps because I have a pop up and advertisement blocker?



And I was not too thrilled about the crime scene investigator's hair hanging down over the very area she was investigating. Seems sloppy to me.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:36 pm

Posts: 7006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:10 pm   Post subject: Film footage   

Michael wrote:

Quote:
Thanks a lot for the link to the vid...it's most inetersting. We'd better not let the Knox Camp see it...they'll be screaming about her destroying evidence (cutting the sheet, swabbing the blood), lol.


I take it you're joking. Knox's supporters have been referring to this video for months now. It was provided to the defense teams by the investigators months ago.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:36 pm

Posts: 7006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:19 pm   Post subject: Frankly disgusting   

Jools quoted from the work of Frank ManyBlogs:

Quote:
12/2/05 04:11 am - Worst Films Ever Festival
Did you know that such a film festival existed? Yes, that film festival collecting all worst and most boring movies exist! And we have it in Perugia! Its real name is Batik or Perugia Film Festival and it's on until december 4th.
A lot of money received from the government (the organizers are very close to the leftist party dominating Perugia and the state of Umbria), crowded press conference, fancy brochure, cute merchandising and then? Absolutely useless movies, just the ones that cost nothing, the ones that nobody wants.
Who cares, -organizers must say- politicians don't understand of movies, real critics don't exist, we just show the bochure and got the money. And ok like this...
Ok like this, have fun at the Batik Festival....
Tags: worst films festival batik


This is the very festival that recently had a film pulled at the last minute because it featured a certain prisoner at Cappane, indicted for the murder of her English roommate. Frank was among those who did not see anything wrong with the picutre and did not understand why the film should be pulled.

Just to clarify: Jools, I take it this is Frank writing in English and not a translation you have provided? He seems to be catering to an English-speaking audience. I wonder if the student guide he refers to with disdain was written by Zach Nowack, a local fixture since he discovered Perugia as a student many years ago.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:36 pm

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:35 pm   Post subject:    

Jools wrote:

Quote:
Wasn’t the IW AKA The Cook, saying not so long ago that Frank was not living in Perugia at the time of Meredith Kercher murder and that he specially moved there because he wanted to blog about the case so the people in Perugia would contribute with information about the murder?
Ha! Seems he was bloging about Perugia a year before Meredith’s murder.


The story of Frank, as told by IW, goes like this:

Quote:
When Frank Sfarzo... heard about Meredith, he was living in Florence. A doctor's son who'd grown up in Rome, he knew the house at Via della Pergola and had never liked its location... The Meredith mystery drew him back to Perugia, because he recognized the types of people caught in the crosswinds. They were familiar from his college years at the University of Perugia... He thought... Perugians would want to contribute... But they did not. After a while he started writing the posts only in English. Then the blog took off, finding an eager audience in the United Kingdom and the U.S., oceans away from Perugia...


Frank sometimes writes as if he actually knew Meredith or had met her. Someone asked him recently on his blog if he did, and I noticed he didn't answer that question.

It would be interesting to find out what Frank was doing before he became a true crime blogger. He alludes to a career in film, and prior to that a career in journalism, where he had brushes with criminal investigations, and here we discover that his online activities are heavily tilted toward food (like the cook) and investment advice. Has he ever made a dime from any of this? At least his PS blog has google ads and had a paypal button.
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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:36 pm   Post subject: Re: Frankly disgusting   

Skeptical Bystander wrote:
Jools quoted from the work of Frank ManyBlogs:

Quote:
12/2/05 04:11 am - Worst Films Ever Festival
Did you know that such a film festival existed? Yes, that film festival collecting all worst and most boring movies exist! And we have it in Perugia! Its real name is Batik or Perugia Film Festival and it's on until december 4th.
A lot of money received from the government (the organizers are very close to the leftist party dominating Perugia and the state of Umbria), crowded press conference, fancy brochure, cute merchandising and then? Absolutely useless movies, just the ones that cost nothing, the ones that nobody wants.
Who cares, -organizers must say- politicians don't understand of movies, real critics don't exist, we just show the bochure and got the money. And ok like this...
Ok like this, have fun at the Batik Festival....
Tags: worst films festival batik


This is the very festival that recently had a film pulled at the last minute because it featured a certain prisoner at Cappane, indicted for the murder of her English roommate. Frank was among those who did not see anything wrong with the picutre and did not understand why the film should be pulled.

Just to clarify: Jools, I take it this is Frank writing in English and not a translation you have provided? He seems to be catering to an English-speaking audience. I wonder if the student guide he refers to with disdain was written by Zach Nowack, a local fixture since he discovered Perugia as a student many years ago.


I wouldn't give a gram of weight to any of Frank's blogs anymore, he's losing the plot based his recent writings. His English swings from bordering on native to bloody awful, along with his allegiances it seems. The only reason Perugia Shock is worth visiting these days is to read the hilarious comments and see C Mellas & DJ lose it daily. If it wasn't for my car crash style addiction to their village idiot standard insults and wholly uninspring attempts to troll Michael, it would be a dead loss.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:36 pm

Posts: 7006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:55 pm   Post subject: MoneyBags, ManyBlogs   

Daisy wrote:

Quote:
I wouldn't give a gram of weight to any of Frank's blogs anymore, he's losing the plot based his recent writings. His English swings from bordering on native to bloody awful, along with his allegiances it seems. The only reason Perugia Shock is worth visiting these days is to read the hilarious comments and see C Mellas & DJ lose it daily. If it wasn't for my car crash style addiction to their village idiot standard insults and wholly uninspring attempts to troll Michael, it would be a dead loss.


I agree with you, and even the "unintentional humor" provide by the comic relief team (in addition to CM and DJ, there is also Goofy, the one who is obsessed with people's sexual orientation, whether or not they are getting laid regularly, and butt beads) is not as hilarious as it used to be. I do love the way Michael and Brian just ignore their preschool-level taunting and insults, and how they try and bait Pete and TM (who they think is one and the same person, what a laugh) from a distance.

As for Frank, I think he is now seeing this case through the prism of everything that is wrong in the world today, from the global financial meltdown to the garbage strikes in Naples. It is sad to see that Meredith's murder is the one blogging subject that has brought him advertising revenue.

Yesterday, I read about a law school professor at Harvard, who asked his students how many of them had put "because I want to make tons of money" on their personal statement about why they wanted to go to Harvard Law School. As he noted, that would at least have the merit of being honest.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:57 pm   Post subject: Re: Film footage   

Skeptical Bystander wrote:
Michael wrote:

Quote:
Thanks a lot for the link to the vid...it's most inetersting. We'd better not let the Knox Camp see it...they'll be screaming about her destroying evidence (cutting the sheet, swabbing the blood), lol.


I take it you're joking. Knox's supporters have been referring to this video for months now. It was provided to the defense teams by the investigators months ago.


Indeed I was :)

_________________
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Offline Fly by Night


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:02 pm   Post subject: Cook gets the boot   

Hearst puts Seattle PI up for sale!

Oh my, what's the cook going to do without her stage to perform on? The PI will be transitioning to a bare bones web-only version, and if no buyer is found in 60 days it will probably cease to exist altogether.
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Offline Anastasia


Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:13 pm

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Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:51 am   Post subject: Re: KNOX'S 7-2-07 RUN IN WITH THE LAW IN SEATTLE   

Tara wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I hope everyone had a great holiday season and HAPPY NEW YEAR! :D

Well, I have disappointing news, yet intriguing as well.

Since I had other business in downtown Seattle, I thought I'd tackle the acquisition of Amanda Knox's incident report of 7/2/07. Armed with the attached information gleaned from internet public records at Seattle.gov I finally found the correct records department after 3 stops in various government buildings.

The procedure is quite simple. You complete a form with your name, address, case number, etc. You stand in line and upon reaching the clerk's window, produce your ID and the completed form. Then the clerk checks her computer and leaves her desk and retrieves a copy of the file for you and off you go. I watched several people in front of me obtain their information this way.

It's my turn. I hand her my form and proceed to get my ID out of my wallet. She curtly asks "WHO gave you this case number and do you have a card?" I asked "what card?", and she replied "the policeman's card". I told her no, and she then told me this was not a correct number and she would have to investigate obtaining of the file further. She said it would take her awhile as there were several other people she had to help at the time. There was nobody behind me in line, and I saw everyone in front of me obtain what they needed and leave, so this didn't make sense.

I had only paid for 2 hours parking and my time was almost expired, so I didn't have time to wait around for her "investigation". I took my completed form and left. My friend (who doesn't follow this case) was surprised at the clerk's attitude regarding this, and frankly, so was I.

What the hell is in that report? Did Judge Heavy pull some strings and have the file somehow "hidden" from the public? What I was asking for was rather routine, and something just wasn't right.

Things that make you go hmmm. :?



Hi Tara
I just read your post to my boyfriend and he says this is very odd allright, he agrees with you and thinks someone may have pulled strings to have it hidden. I read this post after I replied to your PM, so I am behind a bit :lol:

Anastasia
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Offline Kermit


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:37 pm   Post subject: 2009, con ganas   

Hi everyone, I'm back online now in January. Lots of work (and Xmas festivities) have kept me away from the 'Net.

Nicki, excellent DNA analysis Powerpoint. I think it's clear that Raffaele's DNA didn't strap on a pair of wings to find its way to the bra clasp.

Tara, if Heavey writes to Berlusconi to intervene in the Perugia trial, I'm sure he would have no problem in requisitioning somehow the Party Report, to keep it from the interested public (just an opinion).
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:10 pm   Post subject: Re: KNOX'S 7-2-07 RUN IN WITH THE LAW IN SEATTLE   

Anastasia wrote:
Hi Tara
I just read your post to my boyfriend and he says this is very odd allright, he agrees with you and thinks someone may have pulled strings to have it hidden. I read this post after I replied to your PM, so I am behind a bit :lol:

Anastasia



Hi Anastasia :)

Thanks for that, that's quite interesting. As I'm rather unfamilliar with the US system, laws etc, 'if' someone had pulled strings to have that information hidden, information that the public have a right of acccess to, would that constitute as 'corruption'?

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:12 pm   Post subject: Welcome Back Kermit   

Kermit wrote:
Hi everyone, I'm back online now in January. Lots of work (and Xmas festivities) have kept me away from the 'Net.

Nicki, excellent DNA analysis Powerpoint. I think it's clear that Raffaele's DNA didn't strap on a pair of wings to find its way to the bra clasp.

Tara, if Heavey writes to Berlusconi to intervene in the Perugia trial, I'm sure he would have no problem in requisitioning somehow the Party Report, to keep it from the interested public (just an opinion). ]


Welcome back Kermit and Happy New Year :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
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Last edited by Michael on Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline indie


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:16 pm   Post subject: Re: KNOX'S 7-2-07 RUN IN WITH THE LAW IN SEATTLE   

Michael wrote:
Anastasia wrote:
Hi Tara
I just read your post to my boyfriend and he says this is very odd allright, he agrees with you and thinks someone may have pulled strings to have it hidden. I read this post after I replied to your PM, so I am behind a bit :lol:

Anastasia



Hi Anastasia :)

Thanks for that, that's quite interesting. As I'm rather unfamilliar with the US system, laws etc, 'if' someone had pulled strings to have that information hidden, information that the public have a right of acccess to, would that constitute as 'corruption'?



I forgot, how old was Amanda at the time of this incident? In some states it is possible for defense lawyers to negotiate juvenile incidents be closed/erased from public records. Usually rich kids are able to afford this sort of deal because they can pay the lawyers big bucks to get it done during the court proceeding.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:26 pm   Post subject: Re: KNOX'S 7-2-07 RUN IN WITH THE LAW IN SEATTLE   

indie wrote:
Michael wrote:
Anastasia wrote:
Hi Tara
I just read your post to my boyfriend and he says this is very odd allright, he agrees with you and thinks someone may have pulled strings to have it hidden. I read this post after I replied to your PM, so I am behind a bit :lol:

Anastasia



Hi Anastasia :)

Thanks for that, that's quite interesting. As I'm rather unfamilliar with the US system, laws etc, 'if' someone had pulled strings to have that information hidden, information that the public have a right of acccess to, would that constitute as 'corruption'?



I forgot, how old was Amanda at the time of this incident? In some states it is possible for defense lawyers to negotiate juvenile incidents be closed/erased from public records. Usually rich kids are able to afford this sort of deal because they can pay the lawyers big bucks to get it done during the court proceeding.


Hi Indie :) Yes, but Amanda was at college at the time....so she'd have been over 18 right?

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


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Offline indie


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:46 pm   Post subject: Re: KNOX'S 7-2-07 RUN IN WITH THE LAW IN SEATTLE   

Michael wrote:
Hi Indie :) Yes, but Amanda was at college at the time....so she'd have been over 18 right?



Yes, most kids are 18 when the enter college but there still are a few kids turning 18 in their first year. I do have a niece that got herself in a heap of trouble at the age of 18 and my brother spent $25,000 getting her record cleared so that is my only experience with these matters. Maybe Amanda's "judge" friend helped her out in this case.





ETA: My niece's name just so happens to be.... you guessed it AMANDA. :mrgreen:


Last edited by indie on Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:50 pm   Post subject: Re: Frankly disgusting   

Skeptical Bystander wrote:
Jools quoted from the work of Frank ManyBlogs:

Quote:
12/2/05 04:11 am - Worst Films Ever Festival
Did you know that such a film festival existed? Yes, that film festival collecting all worst and most boring movies exist! And we have it in Perugia! Its real name is Batik or Perugia Film Festival and it's on until december 4th.
A lot of money received from the government (the organizers are very close to the leftist party dominating Perugia and the state of Umbria), crowded press conference, fancy brochure, cute merchandising and then? Absolutely useless movies, just the ones that cost nothing, the ones that nobody wants.
Who cares, -organizers must say- politicians don't understand of movies, real critics don't exist, we just show the bochure and got the money. And ok like this...
Ok like this, have fun at the Batik Festival....
Tags: worst films festival batik


This is the very festival that recently had a film pulled at the last minute because it featured a certain prisoner at Cappane, indicted for the murder of her English roommate. Frank was among those who did not see anything wrong with the picutre and did not understand why the film should be pulled.

Just to clarify: Jools, I take it this is Frank writing in English and not a translation you have provided? He seems to be catering to an English-speaking audience. I wonder if the student guide he refers to with disdain was written by Zach Nowack, a local fixture since he discovered Perugia as a student many years ago.



Hi Skep,

Frank in his Perugia live blog I have not translate it myself, thats how it appears if you click the link. I also thought that he was referring to Zack Nowack, maybe he wanted ZN's job to add to his collection. :lol:

Zach Nowak seems he was employ/ed by the Umbria Institute as a student advisor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUD8_KKlL-U

As to what he was doing before the murder... He was quite busy daily bloging on the Italian quiz, Who wants to be a millionaire blog, so he couldn't have been quite so busy on his film making career. :lol:
What is it that they say in Hollywood when an actor or film maker is out of work?
Ah yes, they say that he is "resting"
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:54 pm   Post subject: Re: KNOX'S 7-2-07 RUN IN WITH THE LAW IN SEATTLE   

Michael wrote:
indie wrote:
Michael wrote:
Anastasia wrote:
Hi Tara
I just read your post to my boyfriend and he says this is very odd allright, he agrees with you and thinks someone may have pulled strings to have it hidden. I read this post after I replied to your PM, so I am behind a bit :lol:

Anastasia



Hi Anastasia :)

Thanks for that, that's quite interesting. As I'm rather unfamilliar with the US system, laws etc, 'if' someone had pulled strings to have that information hidden, information that the public have a right of acccess to, would that constitute as 'corruption'?



I forgot, how old was Amanda at the time of this incident? In some states it is possible for defense lawyers to negotiate juvenile incidents be closed/erased from public records. Usually rich kids are able to afford this sort of deal because they can pay the lawyers big bucks to get it done during the court proceeding.


Hi Indie :) Yes, but Amanda was at college at the time....so she'd have been over 18 right?


Amanda knox on the 2nd July 2007 was one week short of her 20th birthday.
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Offline indie


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:09 pm   Post subject: Re: KNOX'S 7-2-07 RUN IN WITH THE LAW IN SEATTLE   

Jools wrote:

Amanda knox on the 2nd July 2007 was one week short of her 20th birthday.


Thanks Jools! Then, I guess we can say she wasn't actually a juvenile age-wise.
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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:34 pm   Post subject: Party 7/2/07   

You all bring up a very good point. The legal drinking age in Washington is 21 - if you're younger and get caught, it's a "minor in possession of alcohol".

I doubt this was a party without alcohol, but that's just my opinion. Who supplied the alcohol? Why was a 19 year old hosting a party with alcohol? How many other minors were drinking?

Now, I'm no prude and I realize this type of thing goes on with college kids! However, more details would be noted in the police report for the "residential disturbance" infraction that Knox received. In addition, when police are called, they usually give a couple of verbal warnings to "tone it down" before issuing a citation. I believe they would also pursue which person over 21 obtained the alcohol for the party. The cops really don't like this kind of thing.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:00 pm   Post subject:    

Hi everyone,
With respect to the residential disturbance citation, we know that it was part of the public record when this case first broke. I say that because the records were obtained by journalists reporting on the case, and the case number was available online. If it was pulled, it happened relatively recently.
I'll say it again: if, as Knox's family and friends insist, it was "nothing," a "routine matter," etc., then why not allow access to that information?

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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:20 pm   Post subject: Legal details   

This fascinating exchange is from Frank's comments page:

First time poster said:

Quote:
To previous anon--I don't know like maybe Rudy could say something to hurt his chances of winning an appeal, just get into a deeper mess? if he testified. I think he hasn't testified before?


Charlie Wilkes replied (emphasis mine):

Quote:
I am told that Guede is going to confess and say he did the murder in collaboration with Knox and Sollecito and the prosecutor was right all along. In exchange for that he will get a reduction to his sentence.

January 9, 2009 5:24 PM


There is a tedious debate going on as to whether or not there is something akin to plea bargaining in Italy. This debate has been going on since last year. Who told Charlie that this was going to happen? It seems to me that what Guede has to say either does or does not accord with the evidence. He had an audience with Mignini last March. He provided information at that time. I may be the only one, but I believe the guilty verdict handed down by Micheli after the fast-track trial came as no real surprise to Biscotti, Gentile or Rudy himself. His involvement has never been in doubt; his story about sitting on the can while someone slipped in and killed the victim was never plausible to most people. But what did he tell Mignini in March? Mignini said he was satisfied with Rudy's disclosures.

As for a reduced sentence in return for anything, my understanding is that for crimes carrying a penalty of more than five years in prison (or something like that), no reduction in sentence is possible in exchange for agreeing to a fast-track process. And incidentally, the reduction is in exchange for a shorter process, not in exchange for testimony against others. Or am I missing something?
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Offline nicki

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:21 pm   Post subject:    

Welcome back Kermit, it's great to see you again!

Tara and Jools: Thank you so much for providing the crime scene video, finally I was able to see it. I'm providing a full transcript but unfortunately it doesn't seem to reveal anything important I think. However, here it is for you to read:

(Note: there appears to be one female and at least three male officers (Marco and Massimo, and a third one called Fa' (probably short for Fabio) who arrives later. F stands for female voice, M for male)

F: OK. P, place it 10 cm above matress
M: ok, sample...So, sample was how many cm?
F: 10 cm above
F: handle door, internal side
M: internal side, internal surface right?
F: yes, yes it's ok. Ah sorry Massimo, add near lock, correct
M: what is it, 4B?
F: yes 4B. Metallic lateral part of lock
M. 4C
M : this is always referred to the room...
F: yes. yes.to the bedroom
M: do you have a piece of ?cotton?
F: no, no test tube Marco! test tube!
M: he went to get test tubes
M. have you found them? (test tube package NdT)
M.should I open them?
CHAT follows about case unrelated issues
M: nightstand in cadaver bedroom
F: yes,yes these have been marked yesterday already
Background voice: a lot of work to do here
M (just coming in) Hi, how is it going?
F: pretty much like yesterday Fa'. We have to do everything downstairs
M: Fabio, have you been downstairs yet?
M: no,only Flavio
F: we have to do everything downstairs, all descriptive, pictures, the elements are few the dottoressa said (must be referring to Monica Napoleoni). eh, biological traces on the wall, duvet, inside a small bathroom there are drops, more on this side here though,on the outside of the bathroom window.
M: Ha, two squirts! Presumed hematic substance
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:34 pm   Post subject: Re: Legal details   

Skeptical Bystander wrote:
This fascinating exchange is from Frank's comments page:

First time poster said:

Quote:
To previous anon--I don't know like maybe Rudy could say something to hurt his chances of winning an appeal, just get into a deeper mess? if he testified. I think he hasn't testified before?


Charlie Wilkes replied (emphasis mine):

Quote:
I am told that Guede is going to confess and say he did the murder in collaboration with Knox and Sollecito and the prosecutor was right all along. In exchange for that he will get a reduction to his sentence.

January 9, 2009 5:24 PM



There is a tedious debate going on as to whether or not there is something akin to plea bargaining in Italy. This debate has been going on since last year. Who told Charlie that this was going to happen? It seems to me that what Guede has to say either does or does not accord with the evidence. He had an audience with Mignini last March. He provided information at that time. I may be the only one, but I believe the guilty verdict handed down by Micheli after the fast-track trial came as no real surprise to Biscotti, Gentile or Rudy himself. His involvement has never been in doubt; his story about sitting on the can while someone slipped in and killed the victim was never plausible to most people. But what did he tell Mignini in March? Mignini said he was satisfied with Rudy's disclosures.

As for a reduced sentence in return for anything, my understanding is that for crimes carrying a penalty of more than five years in prison (or something like that), no reduction in sentence is possible in exchange for agreeing to a fast-track process. And incidentally, the reduction is in exchange for a shorter process, not in exchange for testimony against others. Or am I missing something?



Hi Skep. Yes, but if you remember, Wilkes was also claiming the exact same thing before the pre-trial hearing, the only difference being that he wasn't claiming to have gotten the information from an inside source (but that was because, at that time, he was still keeping his role in the 'Friends of Amanda' secret) It sounds to me, more a case of the Knox Camp's 'fear' of what Rudy 'might' say and trying to head it off at the pass just in case.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:40 pm   Post subject: Crime Scene Video   

Nicki -

Thank you for the translation of the crime scene video...that's a great help! :)

_________________
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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:28 pm   Post subject: Translation by Nicki   

Hi Nicki, :)

Thank you so much for doing that! I'm glad you were able to view it - it takes awhile to load!

The very last bit of communication is referring to the downstairs boy's flat? Are they saying there is blood on the outside of the boy's bathroom window?

That poor injured cat certainly was active!
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:29 pm   Post subject:    

Thank you Nicki for your translation of the video.

From The Sunday Times
January 11, 2009

"Amanda Knox fights to prove innocence in the open
But the victim’s family want a closed trial to protect her dignity"

http://tinyurl.com/7szwj8
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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:48 pm   Post subject: Amanda and laundry   

Just brushing up on our timeline thread.

At 10:30am on 11/2/07 Amanda left to go back to her house to shower. She took an empty plastic bag with her according to RS.

On another message board which I hadn't seen yet, one of the resident "insiders" for the defense, Charlie Wilkes, states the following on October 13, 2008 at 3:37pm: (I know, consider the source!)

Quote:
The laundry is something the police cited as "evidence" last November
without providing any details, and the subject has not come up since.
The fact is Amanda came home that morning and threw a load of clothes in
the machine.
It was a completely ordinary matter with no relation to the
crime.


Google Group w/CW

I always thought Knox brought the empty bag back to her house to retrieve her dirty laundry to take back to Sollecito's place? I wonder if this means the Knox defense will now say she did do a load of wash that morning...and took a shower with no thought to blood drops, an open front door, a locked roommates door, kabob in the john and ransacked roommates room. I guess we'll soon see if Meredith's clothes were in the same load of wash. I must say I never combined wash when I had roommates, and nobody I knew was in the practice of throwing their dirty clothes directly into the machine while waiting to be washed. If I were to see that situation, I'm sure I would remove the other person's clothes while I used the washing machine. We girls are pretty picky about how we do our laundry, and I for one, like to do my own. :lol:

The washing machine was brought up many times by Froggy over at IW's defense blog well after this comment was made by Charlie Wilkes. The subject was repeatedly dismissed by the blog hostess on numerous occaisions. Why didn't Charlie just state this on that blog as well? Did he change his mind about Knox doing laundry?

Oh, Charlie Wilkes also cites this PMF message board in one of his posts - he claims we all find Knox evil, and her parents are evil as well.

The only pro-prosecution poster's posts have apparently been deleted. I couldn't find them.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:24 am   Post subject: More weird stuff   

Tara wrote:

Quote:
I always thought Knox brought the empty bag back to her house to retrieve her dirty laundry to take back to Sollecito's place?


I can see why you would get this idea from Raffaele's diary, but I think he actually meant that AK took an empty bag from his apartment and filled it, while still at his apartment, with her dirty laundry, which she then took back to the cottage to wash.

Actually, I still find it strange that on a long holiday weekend, after allegedly spending the night together, Knox got up (supposedly leaving Sollecito still in bed although his cellphone records and computer activity don't support this version) and got her clothes together to go home to take a shower and do some laundry. I think most people would be sleeping in late, having a leisurely breakfast together, maybe going into town for a stroll. It was a school holiday. I'm not saying it didn't happen this way, just that it seems very odd.

And what about that mop? Supposedly, Knox brought it back to the apartment and then the two took it back to the cottage after using it to soak up standing water from the night before (!). I'm not sure Knox went back to the cottage alone to have her shower and do her laundry. Remember, this is Sollecito's version. And I don't believe she carried the mop to Sollecito's place that morning, after having a shower, putting in a load of laundry, noticing blood, sliding to and from her room on a bathmat, etc.

One more thing that seems odd to me is that, having found the front door open, Amanda did not check the cottage to see who was or was not there. Had she checked, presumably she would have noticed the broken window in Filomena's room (and I find it hard to believe she didn't feel the draft it created as she slid stark naked on a bathmat from bathroom to bedroom and back). This makes no sense at all.
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Offline Tara


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Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:01 am   Post subject: Frank's on broken washing machine   

Hi Skep,

I'm just confused! :)

How could I forget Frank's very informative entry in December (after Charlie's above comment was made in October) with Amanda Knox's answers to some of Frank's (or whoever interviewed her) questions:

Quote:
Did you use the washing machine on November 2?

I've never used the washing machine. It was always broken so I preferred going to the laundromat where there was the dryer too. I don't know what that stuff was, probably still the stuff Meredith had put in the day before.


PERUGIA SHOCK

The "Friends of Amanda Insiders" should probably try to get their stories straight before the trial. :shock:
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Offline Kermit


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Posts: 580

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:34 am   Post subject: Re: Frank's on broken washing machine   

Tara wrote:
How could I forget Frank's very informative entry in December (after Charlie's above comment was made in October) with Amanda Knox's answers to some of Frank's (or whoever interviewed her) questions


Tara, a certain "award-winning journalist" would declare Frank's interview a "fake interview". The equivalent of stealing someone else's recipe. So, I guess it doesn't count. Amanda may actually have turned on the washing machine. Actually, on this one, I tend to agree with Charlie (that Amanda hit the ON button), more than with the "fake interview" .... I never thought I would see this day :D
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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:58 am   Post subject: Truth   

Hi Kermit,

I guess the bottom line is there wouldn't be any differences if everyone on the defense side was telling the truth. In any event, IW, Charlie, Frank, DJ, Goofy, Chris, etc. need to take a meeting IMO.

From IW's joint in praise of her hero Frank about that blog entry and the questions:

Quote:
#224557Posted by Candace Dempsey at 12/3/08 7:15 p.m.

Lido, yes, people can write to Amanda in prison but her lawyers do not allow her to discuss her legal case.

Frank did not write to her. As he said, he sent her questions--obviously through another person and she answered them. The answers were then repeated to him and he wrote them down as best he could.

That's why she doesn't sound like an American college student. For example, "women's party." Never heard of that. I think he means "bachelorette." Or "girls' night out." Also, "in the company of Rudy," is not normal speech. She might say, "I never went anywhere with Rudy."

However, I do believe those are her answers, just not her exact words. And Frank asked good questions. He works hard.
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Offline nicki

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:25 am   Post subject: Re: Translation by Nicki   

Tara wrote:
Hi Nicki, :)

Thank you so much for doing that! I'm glad you were able to view it - it takes awhile to load!

The very last bit of communication is referring to the downstairs boy's flat? Are they saying there is blood on the outside of the boy's bathroom window?

That poor injured cat certainly was active!


Hello Tara,

Yes, they are referring to the apartment downstairs. Yes, the lady cop seems to be showing someone the position of the blood droplets, and she specifies they were "external" of the window. Actually it could also be interpreted as "along the edge or right outside of the window frame" inside the house,it's not vey clear. They were talking about these biological traces downstairs they had to work on, but of course at this point they ignored the blood was not human,
I wonder what happened to the injured kitty...
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Offline Kermit


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:24 pm   Post subject: BUT HOW WILL HISTORY JUDGE HER? (Candace, not Amanda)   

Hi everyone,

While the main issue is the crime in Perugia, what happened and who its perpetrators are, we have seen over the months some interesting sideshows appear.

One is the morbid interest which Candace generates in her blog(s) as she tries to maneuver into pole position for big-time $ale$ with her upcoming book. (The one which requires you to breathe in a lung full of helium to be able to say the whole title without having to stop to breathe in again :P )

We have all been witness to her real-time blog management, where even describing the sky as being blue can be met rapidly with the accusation of "libel", and give way to the supreme sacrifice: immediate deletion with no explanations.

Over the last few weeks and in particular during the Christmas break, I had a couple of system failures which caused my computer to reboot, and the browser to reload the pages which had been sitting open (I pile up dozens of pages over the weeks .... maybe that's one of the causes of the system failure ... :( ).

On those recent occasions, I was surprised to see modifications (deletions) that Candace has recently introduced into old old pages.

For example, from the comments to her Gone Baby Gone blog article of May 2008, here is a small sample of some of the recently deleted comments :o :

============================
#128309 Posted by unregistered user at 5/13/08 1:52 p.m.

Candace,



I hope you have firmly warned that Vanity Fair reporter that professionally, as a fellow reporter, you don't allow any discussion or writing of Amanda having sexual relations especially noting any promiscuous sexual behavior.



the VF reporter will of course retract her version when you make your case on how baseless or corrupt any interviews with roommates or friends are and how any media reported information and other materials possibly gathered by her are false or at least should be.


============================
#128320 Posted by unregistered user at 5/13/08 2:06 p.m.

Candace,

Your interview logic is nonsence. You started twisting in the wind after it was proven that the article
[Kermit: the Meo Ponte interview with Amanda through her lawyers] did exist and that it was not rettracted as was your hail mary hope on this. (FRANK? FRANK?)



Reporters submit questions to subjects all the time and get back answers from individuals selected by the subject. This is still called an interview. Where did you study journalism?



Secondarily. If the words or phrasing is stilted I would assume it was the result of the translation by Amanda's lawyer or the paper. So what? We had to put up with your mastery of Italian and we are not the worse off for it.



Finally. Can't you see that this is pursued by people (and yourself) here not because it says anything about Amanda but because says car loads about problems with your "professional" integrity.


============================

#128379 Posted by unregistered user at 5/13/08 3:37 p.m.

Candace, regarding Giacomo Silenzi: "1. Yes, he was paid. That's what "exclusive" means."

In these cases, were the persons who were interviewed, paid by the news organizations in order for the latter to use the word "exclusive"?



"AP Exclusive: Ex-manager says O.J. Simpson confessed"

seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110ap_oj_simpson.html

"P-I Book Critic John Marshall scored an exclusive interview with Bill Clinton, who will be in town tomorrrow to participate in the mayors' climate-change summit -- and to flog his new book"

blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/thebigblog/archives/124802.asp

"Sonics chairman Clay Bennett issued a press release to the Seattle-area media this morning, however, the Oklahoman tycoon granted an exclusive one-on-one interview with the Oklahoman, his hometown newspaper."

blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/sonics/2007/11/listen_to_bennetts_exclusive_i.html

=============================

(Scene: Candace tells poster Winsome that he/she may repost something which was deleted)

#129042 Posted by unregistered user at 5/14/08 10:31 p.m.

Candace, I can't because I was referring to another posting I had made which is also gone.


Winsome

--- AND SHE HAS ALSO DELETED HER OWN REPLY TO WINSOME ---

#129047 Posted by Candace Dempsey at 5/14/08 10:55 p.m.

Sorry, Winsome. Bloggers make mistakes. I apologize. 



129033. Thank you so much for your vote of confidence. Much appreciated. Yes, please do email me privately. I kind of think I know what you're going to say, as I do not believe in coincidences.


==============================

#129141 Posted by unregistered user at 5/15/08 9:18 a.m.

Interesting. The article in the Times is by Richard Owen. Since you have a rapport with him already Candace, maybe you can find out more of a scoop on Meo's fake interview with Amanda through her lawyers.



Gaia


==============================


#129447 Posted by unregistered user at 5/16/08 7:27 a.m.

129365 the Nazione and Corriere articles are both in Italian, too. Unfortunately, it would appear there was indeed a clean-up. It only stands to reason that a footprint that soaked in blood would have been very easily seen. What I don't understand is how Rudy could have acted alone. When did he have time to clean up and still make it to the disco before 1 am? 



NoVertigo


==============================

Of course, Candace can do what she wants with her reader blog, but this late-in-the-day touching up can only be ascribed to her wanting to paint an historical portrait of herself which she hopes complements her new strategy of being an author of a best-seller.

Some of these recent deletions make reference to other publications or mainstream reporters who have written about the crime in Perugia.

Others question her blog management style or crime analysis logic.

Others simply make her look ridiculous.

However, what I don't understand is that there are dozens of other similar posts left behind. Is anyone taking bets? Will Candace finally do a Monica Guzman, and maintain her blog articles but erase all comments after closing the discussion? That would be my suggestion to her if she wishes to not have any comments around (including her own) which directly or indirectly reflect negatively on her. ;)
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Offline Anastasia


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:35 am   Post subject: Re: KNOX'S 7-2-07 RUN IN WITH THE LAW IN SEATTLE   

Michael wrote:
Anastasia wrote:
Hi Tara
I just read your post to my boyfriend and he says this is very odd allright, he agrees with you and thinks someone may have pulled strings to have it hidden. I read this post after I replied to your PM, so I am behind a bit :lol:

Anastasia



Hi Anastasia :)

Thanks for that, that's quite interesting. As I'm rather unfamilliar with the US system, laws etc, 'if' someone had pulled strings to have that information hidden, information that the public have a right of acccess to, would that constitute as 'corruption'?


ARRRGGHHH!!! my post just accidently disappeared when I tried to preview it!! :evil:
Anyways, I was just trying to say that yes this does constitute a corruption of laws that permit anyone to request a copy of a police report, as long as the person or person's (who the police report is about) are over 18 and its not a sex crime. Strings are being pulled here!! Wasnt AK 19 or even 20 when this UW party riot happened at her house?
And I just finished watching the talented Mr. Ripley again, I noticed that AK seems to be an amalgamation of the characters 'Tom' and 'Dickie'.
Michael I still owe you a synopsis, opinion or comments on your sharply insightful crime scene re-enactment. I will finally be able to get to that now that the holidays are over 8-)

Anastasia
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:03 am   Post subject: Seattle-PI   

A new and detailed article with some interesting talking points by Andrea Vogt on the Seattle-PI

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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:11 am   Post subject: The Players   

Excellent article outlining who's who in the trial over at the Seattle PI by Andrea Vogt:

SEATTLE PI ANDREA VOGT


Hi Anastasia,

Yes, Knox would turn 20 on July 9, 2007 and this incident occured on July 2, 2007, so she was 19. Thanks for asking your boyfriend about this - the report must not be too flattering if the file's been flagged to deny any public access.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:17 am   Post subject: Re: KNOX'S 7-2-07 RUN IN WITH THE LAW IN SEATTLE   

Anastasia wrote:
Michael wrote:
Anastasia wrote:
Hi Tara
I just read your post to my boyfriend and he says this is very odd allright, he agrees with you and thinks someone may have pulled strings to have it hidden. I read this post after I replied to your PM, so I am behind a bit :lol:

Anastasia



Hi Anastasia :)

Thanks for that, that's quite interesting. As I'm rather unfamilliar with the US system, laws etc, 'if' someone had pulled strings to have that information hidden, information that the public have a right of acccess to, would that constitute as 'corruption'?


ARRRGGHHH!!! my post just accidently disappeared when I tried to preview it!! :evil:
Anyways, I was just trying to say that yes this does constitute a corruption of laws that permit anyone to request a copy of a police report, as long as the person or person's (who the police report is about) are over 18 and its not a sex crime. Strings are being pulled here!! Wasnt AK 19 or even 20 when this UW party riot happened at her house?
And I just finished watching the talented Mr. Ripley again, I noticed that AK seems to be an amalgamation of the characters 'Tom' and 'Dickie'.
Michael I still owe you a synopsis, opinion or comments on your sharply insightful crime scene re-enactment. I will finally be able to get to that now that the holidays are over 8-)

Anastasia



Hi Anastasia. You have my sympathy...they same thing has happened to me on a number of occassions....most frustrasting to say the least.

Thanks for that information and confirming what I suspected. Yes, she was 19 I think. It makes it even more important we obtain a copy of that document. The attempt to whitewash Knox's past and her character is really extremely aggressive.

As for my crime scene assessment, no rush. Much of it is out of date in any case...although there are some points from it that are still bothering me.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:22 am   Post subject: Blog Sanitisation   

Kermit -

Thank you for making that rather important and detailed post regarding Candace Dempsey's very sneaky sanitisation of her old blogs. History should always record someone rewriting it! I'll be following up your post with one of my own later today.

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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:25 am   Post subject: Snuffed Soundoff!   

Hi Michael :)

We must have seen that PI article at the same time!

Wow, did you see how quickly the soundoff was shut down on that article? Also interesting to note that Biscotti seems to think highly of Mignini...
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:30 am   Post subject: Re: Snuffed Soundoff!   

Tara wrote:
Hi Michael :)

We must have seen that PI article at the same time!

Wow, did you see how quickly the soundoff was shut down on that article? Also interesting to note that Biscotti seems to think highly of Mignini...



Hi Tara :)

Absolutely. Some rather interesting comments about Marriott too...not just simply there to 'answer the phones' (per Chris Mellas) then? ;)

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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:38 am   Post subject: Soundoff open   

Michael,

Just went back to read the article again and voila...comments are open again! Maybe if folks are civil, they'll let it ride? We'll see!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:47 am   Post subject: Re: Soundoff open   

Tara wrote:
Michael,

Just went back to read the article again and voila...comments are open again! Maybe if folks are civil, they'll let it ride? We'll see!



To be honest with you, I'm rather surprised they're allowing comments. I got the feeling that the Seattle-PI had decided behind the scenes, as policy, that the Knox case was just too controversial for public comments. I wonder how long it will last? If the Knox Camp decide they don't like the article....they'll be sending in the trolls quite rapidly.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:59 am   Post subject: IW weighs in   

Michael wrote:

Quote:
If the Knox Camp decide they don't like the article....they'll be sending in the trolls quite rapidly.


The Italian Woman has given her seal of approval - maybe the Knox "troll patrol" can rest?

Quote:
240016Posted by Candace Dempsey at 1/11/09 11:07 p.m.

Andrea Vogt has done her usual excellent job on previewing the trial for the P-I. She is based in Bologna, Italy, and Eastern Washington--not in Rome (a piece of oft-repeated misinformation).

Stage is set for Knox trial
Handful of characters key to high-profile Italian murder case

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Offline nicki

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:51 am   Post subject: Re: The Players   

[quote="Tara"]Excellent article outlining who's who in the trial over at the Seattle PI by Andrea Vogt:

SEATTLE PI ANDREA VOGT


Hi Tara,

Pretty good article, except for the detail that Lumumba has immediately denied the punching and racial insults.I saw him on several TV appearances and he always said the same thing: "the police weren't surely inviting me to a party, but I was never punched nor racially insulted". He blamed the wrong reports on misstranslation and missinterpretation of his true words.
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:43 pm   Post subject: The Kerchers will give evidence.   

Hi everyone.

Just got back from Christmas and New year.

Been fighting the good fight elsewhere for the last day or two.

New on the wires - confirmation that the Kerchers will be giving evidence at the trial and one or two ther details.

Last night Francesco Maresca, the Kercher family lawyer, said he expected the trial would not finish until September at the earliest.

He said: "There will be six hearings a month - one every Friday and two Mondays or Saturdays depending on what the court decides. It will be very long but the Kercher family have full faith in the Italian justice system. They will not be attending the opening on Friday but will come at a later date when they have to give evidence."

Trial judge Giancarlo Massei's first decision on Friday, along with six jury members and two assistant judges, will be to decide whether to accept a request from Mr Maresca to hold the hearing in chambers. Mr Maresca said: "The trial is in open court but I think the judge will probably rule to have parts of it kept private and exclude the press and public for the more harrowing aspects."


This is London
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:14 pm   Post subject:    

Anastasia wrote:

Quote:
Anyways, I was just trying to say that yes this does constitute a corruption of laws that permit anyone to request a copy of a police report, as long as the person or person's (who the police report is about) are over 18 and its not a sex crime. Strings are being pulled here!! Wasnt AK 19 or even 20 when this UW party riot happened at her house?


I have heard that a couple of journalists obtained the records before access was apparently denied. I have also heard from reliable campus sources that this incident was not your run-of-the-mill citation for a small party that got a little out of hand. We all know that college students engage in underage drinking, and I did the same when I was a college student at the University of Washington and elsewhere, but I never attended a party that was broken up by the police.

If this incident was indeed minor, then why has there been an attempt to hide the details? Why has the citation not been made available by the Friends of Amanda, in an effort to clear up questions regarding this matter? Why would a citation of this sort be less serious than Rudy or Raffaele's brushes with the law over drug-related matters? I don't think it is right to vilify Knox because she is female, for behavior that goes unremarked in men, but neither do I believe she or anyone else should get a pass, especially when physical evidence (in this case, details of the incident in the police report and court records) is apparently being withheld.

I found the PI's report filed by Andrea Vogt informative and fair. She has revealed something I did not know: the relationship between Heavey and Washington State senator Maria Cantwell, who has spoken to Italian authorities with respect to this case. And she notes a very important detail about Heavey's letter (the Italian version) to targeted politicians/judicial officials in Italy, which was plain as day to those who saw the physical copy of the letter: Heavey used his official letterhead to make a personal plea. As we know, his letter was riddled with inaccuracies, and he asked for a change in venue for the trial. But what gives him the right to use his official letterhead in this case? This matter warrants further investigation. And why has the letter been pulled from Bremner's website? When you click on read the letter here, you get this message:

Quote:
Missing...


We're sorry, this area of our website is either missing or under construction.

Home
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:03 pm   Post subject: Heavey's Letter   

Skep -

Interesting that Bremner's pulled the letter. But not to worry, the original is still available here on P.M.F if anyone needs it :)

HEAVEY'S LETTER

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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:09 pm   Post subject: Rewriting the past   

Michael wrote:

Quote:
Skep -

Interesting that Bremner's pulled the letter. But not to worry, the original is still available here on P.M.F if anyone needs it

HEAVEY'S LETTER


It's a good thing we have the original Italian with the letterhead. I wonder why it was pulled? Is the AK Defense League trying to forget about it or is it hoping we will?
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Offline indie


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:09 pm   Post subject: Re: Heavey's Letter   

Michael wrote:
Skep -

Interesting that Bremner's pulled the letter. But not to worry, the original is still available here on P.M.F if anyone needs it :)

HEAVEY'S LETTER


I love idioms, so I could not resist:


Quote:

go off half-cocked

English

Etymology
From the days of flintlock and caplock firearms, where the half-cock position of the hammer was both a rudimentary safety, and the proper position for priming the pan or inserting a percussion cap. The phrase was originally rendered, "to go off at half-cock."
Verb
go off half-cocked
(idiomatic) (colloquial): To take a premature or ill-considered action.

Make sure none of your men go off half-cocked and ruin this operation.

or in our case:

Does Judge Heavey a student of the law for 35 years, regret his decision to go off half-cocked and attempt to sway the Italian judges with a letter on official letterhead of the Supreme Court of the State of Washington?

It is a bit of a run-on sentence but you get the idea. :lol:

Honestly I remember the day we found out he sent it, we were astonished at this stupidity.
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Offline Fly by Night


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:38 pm   Post subject: Huffin Puffin Heavey   

Skeptical Bystander wrote:
I found the PI's report filed by Andrea Vogt informative and fair. She has revealed something I did not know: the relationship between Heavey and Washington State senator Maria Cantwell, who has spoken to Italian authorities with respect to this case.


I agree - Vogt's PI article is quite good however I did notice one glaring error. Vogt reports that U.S. Senator Maria Cantwell climbed Mount Rainier with Judge Heavey in 2007 but in the local climbing community it is well known that someone on Maria's rope team began to experience difficulties - they had to turn around and did not summit. Everyone agrees that Maria could have made it, but beyond that what happened on the mountain apparently stayed on the mountain. I think Cantwell and Heavey are cut from two entirely different cloths.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:40 pm   Post subject: Nick Pisa   

Foxy Knoxy is 'upbeat' about proving her innocence says prison priest - By Nick Pisa


Murder suspect Amanda Knox is 'upbeat and hopeful of proving her innocence at trial,' the chaplain of the Italian prison where she is being held has revealed.
Father Saulo Scarabattoli visits Knox, 21, three times a week and the priest has become a close friend of the American who is accused of the brutal killing of British student Meredith Kercher.
She was among a small handful of inmates at the jail where she is being held who attended Mass given by father Scarabattoli and he told them 'you are not alone'.

'Amanda has taken comfort from our chats about religion and she is hopeful that she will be cleared,' said Father Scarabattoli.
'She is being comforted by the dozens of letters she gets from her family and friends and from other people as well. I told her that if she tells the truth then everything will be fine.
'Trial judge Giancarlo Massei's first decision on Friday, along with his six jury members and two assistant judges, will be to decide if to accept a request from Mr Maresca to have the hearing heard in chambers.
'The trial is in open court but I think the judge will probably rule to have parts of it kept private and exclude the press and public for the more harrowing aspects,' said Maresca.

I also told her that no matter how low we get during our lives Christ is always with us and she seemed to take comfort from that.'

'She is upbeat and hopeful of proving her innocence but she is slightly worried about all the media attention that will be on her.
'I told her to just be normal and not put up a mask - I said to her that if she had to smile then smile, if she had to cry then cry but I said to her it was important not to put up a mask,' she added...

More than 250 witnesses are expected to be called and the jury will hear the testimony of 20 investigators and dozens of forensic, genetic and computer experts.
In October third suspect drifter Rudy Guede, 22, was found guilty of murder and sexual assault and was given a 30 year jail sentence after a fast track hearing.
Defence teams for Knox and Sollecito will argue that neither of their clients were at the scene and neither of them knew Guede and they will also say that DNA evidence against them is contaminated and flawed.
Francesco Maresca, the Kercher family, lawyer said he expected the trial to last well into the summer and would not be completed until September at the earliest.
'There will be six hearings a month - one every Friday and two Mondays or Saturdays depending on what the court decides,' he told the Evening Standard

'There are dozens of witnesses to get through and the first will be the police and the investigative ones, after that will be family, friends and other relevant parties.
'This will take many months and will go on into July, August and September before we get a result. It will be very long but the Kercher family have full faith in the Italian justice system.
'They will not be attending the opening on Friday but will come at a later date when they have to give evidence. They were satisfied with the first trial and I am hopeful of satisfying them again in this trial,' Maresca added.


Trial judge Giancarlo Massei's first decision on Friday, along with his six jury members and two assistant judges, will be to decide if to accept a request from Mr Maresca to have the hearing heard in chambers.
'The trial is in open court but I think the judge will probably rule to have parts of it kept private and exclude the press and public for the more harrowing aspects,' said Maresca.


THE DAILY MAIL

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Offline DLW


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:30 pm   Post subject:    

According to the seattle pi article written by Andrea Vogt:

‘They're the supporting players who may find a decisive role in the trial‘:

The prosecutor
The defense lawyers
The judge
The civil action
The Seattle 'Friends'

So The Seattle “Friends” may have a decisive role in this trial. Right there with the judge, the prosecutor, and the defense teams. Emblematic of these Seattle fiends are Anne Bremner, and Judge Heavey.

I’m sure the first 3 will play decisive roles in the upcoming trial. The civil action will most likely play a role. The Seattle Friends will just be onlookers, except for a few of them who maybe character witnesses for Amanda. But I’m sure they’ve succeeded in deluding themselves as being a completely separate entity, and playing an important role in this trial.
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:27 pm   Post subject:    

From Sky News by
Greg Milam
Do We Have A Right To Know?

In this article Greg Milam links to Perugia Shock-Blog. Third paragraph where it says "more controversy"

http://tinyurl.com/7q57ed
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:45 pm   Post subject:    

It seems the whole of Seattle media are reporting Amanda Knox goes to trial on Friday.

http://tinyurl.com/8dzmbw
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Offline Fly by Night


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:47 pm   Post subject:    

DLW wrote:
According to the seattle pi article written by Andrea Vogt:

‘They're the supporting players who may find a decisive role in the trial‘:

The prosecutor
The defense lawyers
The judge
The civil action
The Seattle 'Friends'

So The Seattle “Friends” may have a decisive role in this trial. Right there with the judge, the prosecutor, and the defense teams. Emblematic of these Seattle fiends are Anne Bremner, and Judge Heavey.

I’m sure the first 3 will play decisive roles in the upcoming trial. The civil action will most likely play a role. The Seattle Friends will just be onlookers, except for a few of them who maybe character witnesses for Amanda. But I’m sure they’ve succeeded in deluding themselves as being a completely separate entity, and playing an important role in this trial.


No, I've seen some actual impact - I'm certain that the Seattle "Friends" have already played a decisive role in this case and will continue to do so, although the results they get appear to be contrary to their stated intents and purposes. I think their efforts flat out insured that Knox would remain in jail up to and thoughout the trial.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:20 am   Post subject:    

Kermit wrote:

Quote:
Of course, Candace can do what she wants with her reader blog, but this late-in-the-day touching up can only be ascribed to her wanting to paint an historical portrait of herself which she hopes complements her new strategy of being an author of a best-seller.


Luckily, most people have already copied the material that has subsequently been deleted. Perhaps if we all put our deleted by Candace material in one opile, we could put Humpty Dumpty's blog back together again. On a more serious note, how can anyone who engages in this kind of unethical blog management expect to be taken seriously?

Kermit also wrote:

Quote:
Some of these recent deletions make reference to other publications or mainstream reporters who have written about the crime in Perugia.


That's interesting. Maybe Candace is hoping to obtain information or trade notes with them and is afraid they might be reluctant if they discovered her blog comments.

Kermit wrote:

Quote:
However, what I don't understand is that there are dozens of other similar posts left behind. Is anyone taking bets? Will Candace finally do a Monica Guzman, and maintain her blog articles but erase all comments after closing the discussion? That would be my suggestion to her if she wishes to not have any comments around (including her own) which directly or indirectly reflect negatively on her.


Maybe Candace is taking stuff down in order of importance to her and as she copies it elsewhere or relegates it to the dustbin marked "never happened." Or maybe every time she looks, she spots new ways to revise history and realizes that since she deleted X, she now has to delete Y or it will "look like" she has deleted something when her aim is to achieve something reseembling a plausible comments page. My guess is that she'll ultimately realize that there are so many gaping holes and incoherencies that the best strategy is to do a Guzman and just remove the whole damn thing.
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Offline Jumpy


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:18 am   Post subject:    

Um, regarding this priest who is running to the media to discuss his conversation with Suspected Murderer Amanda Knox~

I thought conversations with clergy were confidential.

I smell a fish, and not the one that Suspected Murderer Raffaele Sollecito was cooking.

Does this priest exist?
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:24 am   Post subject: The Priest   

Jumpy wrote:
Does this priest exist?



Hi Jumpy. Indeed he does.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Offline Jumpy


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:29 am   Post subject:    

He's way hot!
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:05 pm   Post subject: Knox wants book seize   

From Il Messaggero

AK wants book "Amanda and the others" taken out of booshops.

http://tinyurl.com/95hjvn

'Meredith case, Amanda calls
to withdraw the book on the crime of Perugia

According to the defendant could affect the Court
Requested 500 thousand euros in compensation. On Friday the first hearing

MILAN (January 13) - Amanda Knox, the young American in prison in Perugia on charges of murdering Meredith Kercher, has submitted an appeal to the Supervisor of Privacy and Civil Court of Milan calling for the seizure of the book written report by the Corriere della Sera Fiorenza Sarzanini on another student of English and a compensation of 500 thousand euros.

According to the younsgter from Seattle, the contents could "irreversibly hamper and make it impossible for the celebration of a fair trial" because the Court meeting (among the components of which there are also judges) will judge it could be influenced by the book itself.'
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:29 pm   Post subject:    

An observation about Frank and Perugia Shock.

He's gone AWOL.

His post of the beginning of the month said to be continued.

A few deletions did happen in the first day or so.

This question from Jan 1st:

Anonymous said...

Hey Frank, when are you going to post part 2?
When you slag off all the witnesses and super witnesses whatever they are?
January 1, 2009 8:00 PM




Then this:

Frank said...

Sorry, I couldn't take part on the discussion, I was busy.
Btw the part 2 will be one of next days, I waiting for some data.
And it will be even more boring than the part 1, so everyone can miss it unless someone is into philosophy.

January 2, 2009 5:02 PM


That is the last that has been heard from Frank.

The last deletion was on January 3rd.


NINE whole days later this was posted:

Anonymous said...

According to Candace, Frank is having computer problems. So now might be a good time to post this.

Funnycat is Candace Dempsey's sister. Candace tries to pass her off as some sort of expert in the field of forensics. This makes Candace seem even more unreliable than she already is.

January 12, 2009 11:23 AM


It's still standing.

It's Jan 13th, comments currently stand at 640 and counting, still no Frank.

Frank has been totally absent from his blog for a 10 whole days.


The "computer problems" don't wash with me.

Where is his promised philosophical part 2?

In the absence of the article, where are his comments and deletions?

Where is Frank's post explaining his temporary absence?

His PC may be borken but I'm sure he could find one elsewhere to give people a quick update on the situation which is causing him problems.



What has happened to Frank?

Has he fallen foul of unknown forces in Perugia which have forced his silence?
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:19 pm   Post subject:    

More on the non-news from Perugia.

The UK and US press have been full of stories about the upcoming trial over the last few days.

There has been next to nothing in the Italian press since January 10th.

No comments or stories in the CU or Il Giornale for at least 3 days except today when Il Giornale has a small story about the media invasion which is hidden back on page 9.

As Jools points out the press have today picked up that Amanda's defense wants a certain book banned, but still there is little or nothing about the trial itself.

Last Friday Raffaele's defense arranged for some people to examine the possibility of gaining entrance to the cottage through the window. It got little more than a paragraph in just a few publications.

The only real information I can find has come from this story in what is not exactly a traditional newspaper:

Two former policemen of Ris, ballistic experts, have taken measures to calculate the possible trajectory of the stone used to break the window and reconstructed the position of the fragments of glass (found in part out of the room). "We have collected data that will allow us to arrive at an experimental stage," said a senior advisor, Giovanni Lombardi, who in the past - has revealed - has also addressed the case of Cogne. He has worked with Francesco Pasquali, an expert on reconstruction of the scene of the crime.

The two have preferred not to commit itself on which of the two scenarios is more plausible. Based on an initial assessment referring to the call of defenders, lawyers Giulia Bongiorno, Luca Maori and Marco Brusco, though the theory of a person entered the apartment through the window that is confirmed.

During the preliminary hearing lawyers have argued that Mez was killed during a robbery ended badly, calling into question Rudy Guede, the Ivorian sentenced to 30 years in prison on the abbreviated rite for the murder of which it is said, however innocent , without ever directly accuse him of murder.

"They were technical assessments for which there was no need for our presence," said the lawyer Maori....


Google translation of inviatospeciale

Not exactly a rock solid plank in Raffaele's defense.


ISTM that something may be afoot in Perugia and it's beginning to intrigue me.
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Offline Corrina


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:16 pm   Post subject: Which day and what time?   

nicki wrote:

M: nightstand in cadaver bedroom
F: yes,yes these have been marked yesterday already
Background voice: a lot of work to do here
M (just coming in) Hi, how is it going?
F: pretty much like yesterday Fa'. We have to do everything downstairs
M: Fabio, have you been downstairs yet?
M: no,only Flavio
F: we have to do everything downstairs, all descriptive, pictures, the elements are few the dottoressa said (must be referring to Monica Napoleoni). eh, biological traces on the wall, duvet, inside a small bathroom there are drops, more on this side here though,on the outside of the bathroom window.
M: Ha, two squirts! Presumed hematic substance


Hello everyone; happy new year. Just reading over this and noticed F states "these have been marked yesterday". To me, that says they were there two days in a row (at least), right? Also, in viewing that video, I noticed the time kept changing. Just wondering what day those footprints that a certain someone insisted were "wiped away" were, well, wiped away. Maybe the reason there was no hair net was because they had already swept through there the day before? What do I know about crime scenes or investigations? Not much!

Have to say I didn't see a defense strategy of "throw out the case due to a book that was written" coming. Does anyone think that has any legs?
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:01 pm   Post subject: Writing on the Wall   

Corinna wrote:
Have to say I didn't see a defense strategy of "throw out the case due to a book that was written" coming. Does anyone think that has any legs?


Hi Corinna and Happy New Year :)

Whilst I wasn't anticipating this move by the Knox Team, now that it's happened I'm not surprised. A short time ago, on Frank's, they were grumbling quite long and loudly about this book...but mainly on the basis of 1. It was an infringement of Amanda's privacy (by publishing her 'leaked' private diary) and 2. the author was voicing a lot of wild opinions.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:04 pm   Post subject:    

Corrina wrote:
Have to say I didn't see a defense strategy of "throw out the case due to a book that was written" coming. Does anyone think that has any legs?


I think it's timing is purely suggestive and tactical. If the book was considered that bad why wait until this week? I assume tens of thousands have already been sold. Publication was well over a month ago. The horse bolted long before they attempted to shut the door.

I don't know whether the claim has any chance in Italy.

It's true that in the UK the rules about what can be published before any trial would probably rule out the what the Corriere has printed and any action against the publication would likely come from the court itself, not the defendant. I don't know about the US.

BUT

The major UK press would consider a claim against them of 500,000 euro an expense of doing business. They'd print and be damned if they thought that was their only liability. Circulation is the rule of the game.

Corriere Della Sera is no minor player, I suspect they'll fight this tooth and nail.

And I don't believe it will have any impact on the case itself although it will undoubtedly be used by the defense and may play a part in any appeal.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:39 pm   Post subject:    

Jumpy wrote:

Quote:
Um, regarding this priest who is running to the media to discuss his conversation with Suspected Murderer Amanda Knox~

I thought conversations with clergy were confidential.

I smell a fish, and not the one that Suspected Murderer Raffaele Sollecito was cooking.

Does this priest exist?


That's an interesting point. Certainly anything confessed is confidential. Does anyone remember that old movie where the priest hears the confession of a presumed murderer and refuses to reveal what he has heard on religious grounds?

As for the priest, I think he exists. In addition to the photo provided by Michael, I found several a few months ago on daylife.com, showing him entering and exiting the prison on a motorcycle. Dude!
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:54 pm   Post subject:    

Brian wrote:

Quote:
What has happened to Frank?

Has he fallen foul of unknown forces in Perugia which have forced his silence?


I wouldn't put much faith in Candace's explanation of Frank's whereabouts. Her past practice of deleting posts was bad enough; now she is revising history before our eyes. For me, that puts her firmly in the category of those who are not to be trusted.

As for Frank, it wouldn't surprise me if he had fallen afoul of the law. He has been running around for months interviewing witnesses and suspects (in the case of Amanda) and publishing his findings on the blog. Not only has he thereby inserted himself into the story, he also runs the risk of being accused of tainting the testimony of potential witnesses. If you think about it, this is serious business. I can't imagine Mignini looking benevolently on all of this.

Incidentally, I just noticed the stuff about the washing machine. Thanks, Tara. So Amanda tells Frank in a fake interview that she never touched that machine, while Charlie (one of the local anchors of the Amanda defense effort) tells us it has been known for months that Amanda stuck her clothes in the machine when she got back to the cottage and basta! end of story. Gotta get your story straight pretty quickly, people!
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:24 pm   Post subject: Up in Arms   

It would seem that a certain blogstress is up in arms about a certain post on TJMK:


Candace Dempsey wrote:
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 1/13/09 12:16 a.m. #240773

Readers,
I promise not to comment often when attacked elsewhere but sometimes I cannot help myself.

Did you know PM Mignini should fear my coming into Perugia? That he should bar the gates? Honestly, it makes me laugh.

The reason? I supposedly sneak into press conferences even though I am not a real journalist.

We've covered this ground before. The real master's degree in journalism accompanied by the real Graduate Teaching Fellowship, followed by the real awards, the real years of experience in newspapers, magazines and at MSN. The real book deal at Berkley Books, owned by giant Penguin. That is as legit as it gets.

Thus...
1. When I went to the hearing in Rome, I was a REAL journalist. I told the guard IN ITALIAN that I was an Italian-American blogger from Seattle He was amused and let me in. I now learn that this is a "felony." Honestly, you could not make this stuff up.

2. I also learn that when I was invited to a Kercher press conference at a Perugia hotel, I was NOT THE SAME as everyone else--even though I had press credentials. No, if I am pictured near or photographing the Kerchers at a PRESS CONFERENCE OR IN THE COURTROOM, certain people must pretend that I wandered in like some sort of vagrant. That I pose a security threat unbeknownst to PM Mignini who has seen me many times without batting an eye. He has his work to do, I have mine. We're fine with it.

3. In the extremely unattractive pictures on said blog, blown up, harshly lit, I look like some bedraggled caricature of myself. Yes, they are rotten pictures. Thanks. Worse, I am presented as if I were alone, endlessly hovering near the Kerchers. That is just such a charade. This, at a press conference where the Kerchers were swarmed by photographers and reporters, many of them shouting! An entire herd.

Here are the Kerchers escaping that situation. Do you see me in that crowd?

4. I now learn that should I be so bold as to step once more in Perugia to do my job, I will be photographed. So will Frank of Perugia Shock. In fact, there is a bounty out now for someone so devoid of a life that he would search us out and photograph us together. Yes, I'm sure that photo is worth millions of dollars to Mr. Anonymous.

5. I do not expect anything I say to put actual facts into certain people's heads, which is why I trust nothing they post about the case. A certain blogmeister keeps repeating that I wrote for months about the case without mentioning the victim's name. How many times can one lie be repeated?

Just click on the links to the right and you'll see that I've mentioned Meredith Kercher every single time. She is what this case is all about. It is her tragedy. And her family's. And good for Stephanie for being strong for her sister and speaking up. It must be a nightmare, putting up with all us reporters.

The rest of this is just a sideshow and a shabby one at that.

Certain people should be ashamed of themselves but that would mean they had the capability.



THE COOK'S SMOG

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:17 pm   Post subject:    

Maybe Candace will be more careful going forward and stay out of the way while the photojournalists are working. She should actually thank Fast Pete for reminding her of one of the basic rules of reporting on this kind of case, which has generated a media frenzy seldom seen. Stay out of the way of the cameras!

Personally, I would not have posted those photos (which were already out there for all to see, on daylife.com, for example). Journalists and would-be journalists should be allowed to toil away in obscurity. Their work can and should be criticized, however.

Their lapses in objectivity should be identified and commented on. Their conflicts of interest should be hunted down and exposed. Their lapses of judgement are also fair game.

And when they insert themselves into a story they are covering (or blogging about, in this case), they have no right to complain about the attention that follows. When they bring their own experience and family into the fray, by making comparisons with the victim and her family, then that becomes fair game. Candace allowed a fellow journalist (in this case, Monica Guzman) to quote her on her sister's death and her own near date rape: she brought herself and her family into the story she is ostensibly covering. Yet again, though, Candace wants to have her cake and eat it too. This is not professional journalism. I think these unfortunate photos are a further reminder. Incidentally, her comments about the photos being unflattering are very unprofessional as well. Who cares besides Candace? She notes that some people should be ashamed of themselves but probably lack that capacity. Personally, I think she should be embarrassed by her own lack of professionalism with respect to this case, but she seems to lack that capacity.

I don't care how many awards Candace has won or who she has worked for. These offer no insulation from valid criticism about her work and methods in this particular instance. And personally, I don't really care that Candace was careless or foolish enough to be caught on camera (were any of the other journalists?). What matters is that Candace has not conducted her blog as a professional journalist would, and now is going beyond the atrociously arbitrary deletion policy that discredited her in the eyes of many. She has spent the last few weeks surrepticiously deleting posts that had been allowed to stand for months. Why? I think she is revising history to suit her present aims. And in my opinion, that is wrong. Pointing it out is not wrong. I would do the same no matter who the journalist was. It's just that I haven't seen such unprofessional and unethical behavior on the part of other journalists covering this case.

I have a theory about why she is doing this, now. For many months, she has deleted in such a way as to ensure access to Amanda Knox's friends and family. I am not sure she was asked to do so; but she certainly understood that they would open up to her if she appeared to be friendly and supportive to them and hostile to people who questioned certain aspects of this case. She has gotten what she needed. Now she needs to appear friendly to others and has edited her blog and its comments pages in a way that she hopes is to their liking. Many deletions in the past had nothing to do with libel, as she has claimed. I hope that all of those posts have been copied and filed offline for posterity.

If this is professional journalism -- and I have seen enough of professional journalism to believe it is not -- then it is no wonder that journalism and media are in trouble today. I may be naive, but I think most journalists follow a code of professional ethics that condemns the practices described above.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:53 pm   Post subject: Giancarlo Massei   

From Andrea Vogt’s article for the Seattle-PI:

The trial judge, Giancarlo Massei, is no stranger to high-profile cases, having worked on that of Roberto Spaccino, an Umbrian man accused of killing his pregnant wife, and of a serial killer active in another Umbrian town near Perugia.

Stage is set for Knox trial

It’s easy to guess that the serial killer is the ‘Monster of Foligno' (Luigi Chiatti).
Such is the irony of fate: the judge Giancarlo Massei, who will preside over the trial of Knox and Sollecito, was the GIP, who, in August 1994, reviewed the evidence against Luigi Chiatti aka 'the Monster of Foligno’, whom Raffaele Sollecito admired and held in such high regard.

From Corriere della Sera, August 6, 1994:

Al gip Giancarlo Massei e' bastata poco piu' di un' ora per decidere il rinvio a giudizio di Luigi Chiatti che adesso rischia l' ergastolo. A partire dal primo dicembre, il "mostro di Foligno" verra' processato dalla Corte d' assise di Perugia, per gli omicidi di Simone Allegretti, di 4 anni, e per quello di Lorenzo Paolucci, 13.

http://archiviostorico.corriere.it/1994/agosto/06/non_era_amato_ucciso__co_0_9408067992.shtml

Google translation:

Al GIP Giancarlo Massei and 'enough little more' to a 'time to decide on the trial of Louis Chiatti that now threatens the' life imprisonment. Starting from December, the "Monster of Foligno" will be 'tried by the Court' s meeting in Perugia, for the murder of Simone Allegretti, 4 years, and for that of Lorenzo Paolucci, 13.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:04 pm   Post subject: Cooking on Speed   

I think Candace is on speed or something, she now has three blogs on the go at the same time, although, it appears aside from her own posts, she's keeping the comments sections closed from public posters (not that there are any public posters who are not members of her family) until the end of January:

Memories of Meredith Kercher

Case against Amanda Knox: Open or shut?

Amanda Knox: What's sex got to do with it?


In answer to the title of your most recent blog Candace, I'll help you out...the suspects are to stand trial for a SEX murder Candace, that's what 'sex' has got to do with it.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Corrina


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:15 pm   Post subject: Speed Kills   

Oh that is rich, Michael. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall the diary being "leaked" by Amanda in the hope that it would clear her name. I don't think that story (was it the Times?) was ever retracted. Also, didn't Frank over at Perugia Shock post a whole story on that? He even posted a photo of the diary page with the list of 7. Who leaked what, oh writer of food blog? Where did Frank get that page from? Where did Candace get the diary from? Remember the one where she said she read it and it was just chock full of glowing references to Meredith and yet she was unable to produce anything other than what we had already seen elsewhere? Not saying she is a lier or anything, maybe she is just mistaken.

No comments, huh? I wonder why.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:25 pm   Post subject: Re: Speed Kills   

Corrina wrote:
Oh that is rich, Michael. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall the diary being "leaked" by Amanda in the hope that it would clear her name. I don't think that story (was it the Times?) was ever retracted. Also, didn't Frank over at Perugia Shock post a whole story on that? He even posted a photo of the diary page with the list of 7. Who leaked what, oh writer of food blog? Where did Frank get that page from? Where did Candace get the diary from? Remember the one where she said she read it and it was just chock full of glowing references to Meredith and yet she was unable to produce anything other than what we had already seen elsewhere? Not saying she is a lier or anything, maybe she is just mistaken.

No comments, huh? I wonder why.


Hi Corrina. Whilst your charging of Dempsey with hypocrisy is still absolutely correct, I think the diary in question is Amanda's pre-arrest diary (The Green Diary), rather then the prison diary. In any case, as far as I'm aware, Amanda's diarys, both of them, are held as evidence. As evidence, any of the lawyers representing any of the defendents or victims, or the prosecution, are legally allowed to release anything into the publc domain from the 10,000 word evidence file they wish.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Corrina


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:31 pm   Post subject: oops   

I stand corrected. I knew I should have just stayed away til the trial started! :oops:

Still, that book came out a while back, why all the fuss now? Wouldn't it stand to reason to have it taken off the shelves right away? You know, like before the jury selection?
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:44 pm   Post subject: One more book...   

Another book!!

This one is from GU director Giuseppe Castellini and a psychiatric psychotherapist Vincenzo Maria Mastronardi. The book comes with a DVD reconstructing in 3D the crime scene.

http://tinyurl.com/78cshx

13-01-2009
MEREDITH: NUOVO LIBRO CON DVD DELLA SCENA DEL DELITTO

While the Cook's book is simmering others are getting done and no doubt they will be some more before hers.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:20 pm   Post subject: Oh what a tangled web they weave   

Corrina wrote:

Quote:
I stand corrected. I knew I should have just stayed away til the trial started!

Still, that book came out a while back, why all the fuss now? Wouldn't it stand to reason to have it taken off the shelves right away? You know, like before the jury selection?


No, you're always welcome even when you're all mixed up! I've been wondering the same thing about the timing. Does anyone remember Frank encouraging Knox and her lawyers to file suit on his blog? It seems to me that he mentioned some kind of deadline - like 90 days - for filing. I've been looking for that post.

Incidentally, it's useful to go looking for things like this because you discover other things. The serendipity factor, I think it's called. Anyway, it looks as if Frank has removed all of his own posts detailing his past as a journalist and a film-maker. Remember, he said that as a journalist he had covered a couple of big murder trials, in addition to writing theater criticism and covering professional cycling. I was and remain dubious about the extent of Frank's experience as a crime journalist.
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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:20 am   Post subject: LATEST KING 5 NEWS REPORT   

This was just aired on the 11:00pm news here in Seattle on KING5 News (NBC)

Comparing Knox's two little half-sisters to just 7 months ago when they were on ABC's GOOD MORNING AMERICA , they have really grown - or maybe it's the eye make-up on the oldest of the two, Ashley. It's sad watching these young girls discuss their feelings about this case and how they'll feel if their big half-sister is convicted of the murder of Meredith Kercher. They're only 9 and 13! I think this crosses the line for me...where is Amanda Knox's step-father, Chris Mellas? Also, where is Amanda Knox's step-mother; the mother of these two girls, Cassandra Knox? Or, how about the grandmother who wrote the glowing report of Amanda on the Amanda defense website? If this is a choice made by the PR firm, endorsed by the parents, it's in bad taste, in my opinion. :shock:

KING5 FRIENDS AND FAMILY DISCUSS KNOX's CHARACTER
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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:25 am   Post subject:    

Any PR film involving children is a desperate ploy to pull at a few heartstrings and this is no exception. I smell a strong whiff of desperate eminating from Seattle and really, at this stage of the game, I would have more surprised if they didn't start with this sort of campaign in the media. The next film will have puppies & kittens, just watch...

I saw the post on the Cook's blog too, the smell of desperate from there is competing with the Knox's. If Candace takes a minute to think, we're the internet, we don't really exist if you think about it!! We're a minimum 10-15 people across a couple of websites who won't buy her book. If she was THAT confident about herself, her right to stand in a hotel lobby behind the Kerchers and her "journalistic" credentials, she wouldn't be putting up tl;dr walls of text to justify herself. Her ego refuses to allow her to follow the old adage of "ignore them and they will go away".

A thought, or rather my curiosity. Could the wall 'o' text be in response to the fact that TJMK gets more hits than the Dempsey blog perhaps? She will also be able to see where her site traffic comes from following those posts. Does anyone have stats as Alexa's not playing with me this morning!
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:36 pm

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:06 pm   Post subject:    

Tara wrote:

Quote:
It's sad watching these young girls discuss their feelings about this case and how they'll feel if their big half-sister is convicted of the murder of Meredith Kercher. They're only 9 and 13! I think this crosses the line for me...where is Amanda Knox's step-father, Chris Mellas? Also, where is Amanda Knox's step-mother; the mother of these two girls, Cassandra Knox? Or, how about the grandmother who wrote the glowing report of Amanda on the Amanda defense website? If this is a choice made by the PR firm, endorsed by the parents, it's in bad taste, in my opinion.


The use of young siblings (in this case, half-sisters) to elicit viewer sympathy is indeed ethically questionable. In terms of actual content, they of course add nothing to the public's knowledge of the case, so it is reasonable to conclude that they were not chosen on the basis of their expertise. It goes without saying that Amanda Knox has the support of her family and the small group of close friends she hung out with at the University of Washington. Again, their support and sadness are not news. They were chosen to elicit the sympathy of the average uninformed KONG viewer.

There is also a 30-second "making of" video, with Linda Byron standing on the steps of Suzallo Library at the UW, in which she explains why this story was told. She says that she wanted to interview the people (friends and family) who know Amanda Knox best. People who say she is nothing like the drugged-up maneater that the tabloids have created.

I agree that the tabloid portrayal was wrong (factually and morally), but it was in keeping with what tabloids do. I think that even those who read the tabs take them with a grain of salt and see them as entertainment. The world would be better off without them, certainly. But this lurid picture of Amanda Knox has not been front and center for a very long time. The friends and family would be more effective if they confronted the serious reporting on this case, the nagging doubts that informed and intelligent people have, and so on. They seem to prefer to rail against and knock down a one-dimensional portrait that was discredited long ago.

They complain about Amanda having the starring role in this drama, and yet they line up to feature in news items focused on the star. As a result, they cement Amanda into the star spot. Meredith is just a bit player who left the show months ago.

I would guess (and may be wrong) that the PR firm was closely involved in selecting the faces shown in this story and the slant it takes.

Accordingly, it is very difficult to take any of this as more than the Disney channel version of Amanda Knox, an image created to counter the British tabloid version that no sane person takes seriously anyway. This is not news and it is not real reporting. I would be disappointed if I had higher expectations of local television coverage -- of anything.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:46 pm   Post subject: The Telegraph   

Amanda Knox launches 11th hour bid to stall Meredith Kercher murder trial

American student Amanda Knox has launched an 11th hour bid to stall her trial for the murder of her British flatmate Meredith Kercher by arguing that a new book on the case makes a fair hearing impossible.

The Daily Telegraph




Foxy Knoxy makes bid to scrap murder trial


Murder suspect Amanda Knox has launched a desperate bid to have her trial thrown out by claiming a high profile book about her has prejudiced her case.
The 21-year-old American has also demanded £500,000 compensation following the publication of "Amanda and the Others".

The book - based on extracts from Knox's diary seized by police - was a bestseller in Italy and was serialised by newspaper Corriere Della Sera...

METRO

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:53 pm   Post subject: Re: Which day and what time?   

Corrina wrote:
... in viewing that video, I noticed the time kept changing. Just wondering what day those footprints that a certain someone insisted were "wiped away" were, well, wiped away. Maybe the reason there was no hair net was because they had already swept through there the day before?


Seems a significant catch there, Corinna. Looks like all this examination has the makings of a significant sub-timeline.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:00 pm   Post subject: Answer to the Delay   

Well, I think that's the answer to everyone's question as to why Knox's lawyers waited for so long ...just a few days before the beginning of the trial...to bring a suit out against the book. This month long delay was deliberate, for the issue with them was never the book, but the trial itself and their desire to sabotage it before it started. This tells me that her lawyers never had much hope of winning a trial. And, a truly innocent person wants to get a trial underway as soon as possible, not do their utmost to make sure one never happens. The message this action sends to the public about Amanda is 'Guilty as sin'!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:04 pm   Post subject: Re: Up in Arms   

Michael wrote:
It would seem that a certain blogstress is up in arms about a certain post on TJMK...


There's no bounty offered for more shots. At least by any of us. If she continues to insert herself into the story, my guess is they'll turn up.
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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:35 pm   Post subject: Where are Seattle media people?   

This was reported by Damian over at the All of Us site. I hope they don't mind if I repost it here. Thanks in advance:

Quote:
From today's local press.

53 newspapers/TV channels have applied and received passes to the court, in the event of it being open to the public. One of these is from Seattle. 140 journalists/photographers/cameramen can pick up their passes from the Questura. Papers report that there are a total of 150 seats in court and that the remaining ten will be reserved for family members of the victim and the suspects. In effect, they say, the trial will be closed to the public whatever the judge decides since there is no room for them. GU doubt that all 140 will be there for every hearing and imagine some members of the public will be queuing up to get in as has happened in other big trials in Italy.

THE GU talks about new reports, done by police experts, in the hands of the prosecutors. They weren't part of the preliminary investigation but the defence lawyers will have seen them. One concerns the phone calls made by Meredith and the two suspects and the satelite cells which picked them up, before, during and after the murder.


I don't know much about press passes, etc. but seeing that only ONE application has been received from Seattle is disappointing, but not surprising given the lack of coverage on this case. I would have thought Seattle would have more representation. I wonder WHO or what media from Seattle filed the lone application?

I wonder what the new reports done by the posice experts and in the hands of the prosecutors are, in addition to the phone calls?

Thanks again DAMIANO33 for posting this over at ALL OF US! :)
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:48 pm   Post subject: Foxnews   

Article from the inimitable Fox.

Wow what a headline!

American Accused of Murdering Coed in Italy Tries to Block Erotic Novel.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479909,00.html
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Offline The Machine


Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:43 pm

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:30 pm   Post subject: Re: Where are Seattle media people?   

Tara wrote:

THE GU talks about new reports, done by police experts, in the hands of the prosecutors. They weren't part of the preliminary investigation but the defence lawyers will have seen them. One concerns the phone calls made by Meredith and the two suspects and the satelite cells which picked them up, before, during and after the murder.


I'm intrigued by the reports about the phone calls that were picked up by the satellite cells before, during and after the murder. Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito turned on their mobile phones at 5.32am even though they both claimed to be sleeping at this time. The phone records might provide irrefutable proof that they left Sollecito's apartment much earlier than they claimed and confirm at what times they were together and whether they were actually apart at any time.
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Offline Brian S.


Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:53 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:17 am   Post subject:    

Quote:
Tara wrote:


THE GU talks about new reports, done by police experts, in the hands of the prosecutors. They weren't part of the preliminary investigation but the defence lawyers will have seen them. One concerns the phone calls made by Meredith and the two suspects and the satelite cells which picked them up, before, during and after the murder.



Just a bit of info I remember from earlier press:

When Guilia Bongiorno made her window climbing visit to the cottage, she also took along the phone people who made test calls in an attempt to prove that Meredith's phones had already been dumped by the time of the 10sec bank call.

My memory isn't 100%. But in the end it didn't prove that at all. I seem to remember that the police then found that calls from the cottage can be picked up by either of two cells. And one of those cells also covers the location where the phones were dumped.

Suffice to say Bongiorno's actions caused the police to look into calls and cells. I seem to remember that it then transpired she had actually scored something of an own goal.

I'll try and dig the information up.
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:20 am   Post subject:    

The Machine wrote:
The phone records might provide irrefutable proof that they left Sollecito's apartment much earlier than they claimed and confirm at what times they were together and whether they were actually apart at any time.


Good one Machine. Where for example was Sollecito when Knox was seen in the supermarket? Catching a few more winks?

I've always wondered why they took so long to do the clean-up. Everything we believe they did looks like a 1-2 hour stint to me.

Brian, did we ever find the precise location of those two transponders and which company or companies they belong to?

I looked for them in the general area under the guidance of Kermit but I never tracked them down. I'd like another shot.

We've agreed previously that a third mobile-phone transponder somewhere in range would be required for triangulation.

I wonder if there was one, and we are just not yet hearing about it. That would be something.


Last edited by Fast Pete on Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:05 am   Post subject:    

Dispose of the IW blog! Once and for all!

I think we may have a real shot at it here. This note is especially for Kermit, Machine, and anyone who has ever been dumped.

David McCumber the editor of the Seattle PI is blogging daily about how to save the paper. He has 60 days. If the paper edition goes down the web edition (and thus CD) may still survive.

He is sharing a blog with (ha ha!) Monica Guzman: The Big Blog

He is desperate for tips and ways of keeping morale up. It seems to me the advice he is looking for is this.

Reader blogs are a mortal cancer right at the heart of the newspaper.

All over the US they are lowering the tone of newspaper websites, and taking readership and work away from journalists who are paid to know what they are talking about.

And we have these 100 or so extreme problems (list here) with the biased and dishonest blog "reporting" of CD on the Perugia crime scene.

This should be truly satisfying to us, and of course he will be very very grateful!

Good luck then, and see you over there.
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Offline IM


Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:38 am

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:24 am   Post subject:    

I am speculating.
after watching 'murder by numbers"
with sandra bullock,
I wondered if this group also
video taped?
the boys in this movie were about
the same age as this group and kinda
felt similar.
just wondering?
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Offline Brian S.


Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:53 pm

Posts: 1115

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:40 pm   Post subject:    

The CU remembers what this case is all about:

"My little Mez deserves to have justice."

Google translation of Corriere dell'Umbria

Maresca speaks on behalf of the Kerchers.
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

Posts: 844

Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:09 pm   Post subject:    

Two good new pieces on the Spiegel site By Alexander Smoltczyk translated from German.

Exchange Student Murder Trial to Begin

Attracted To Violence

Nothing that we close watchers didn't know, I think, but a good introduction for new readers.
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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:47 pm   Post subject:    

Quote:
She tries to believe that nothing has changed. She spends her time reading, singing and learning languages. She already speaks Italian fluently. And she writes in her diary. Her words read like attempts to find a story that will make everyone happy. She writes: "The truth is that I no longer know what the truth is."


Thanks for the links Pete. I think that paragraph is pretty telling for a girl described as living in another world. She's built herself a new reality in prison, and she admits she no longer knows what the truth is. Innocent people KNOW what the truth is, only people who have lied themselves into a corner have trouble remembering what is real and what is not.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:29 pm   Post subject: Heart for Dinner Anyone?   

Oh my, Frank is such a bitter man...but hey, I've seen computer problems do that to people. One moment they are fine, the next, it's all straight jackets and breakfasting in a padded cell. Now for Frank, when not howling at the moon, it seems he is lauding Candace Dempsey's forthcoming book with Penguin as the pinnacle of achievement. He clearly is of the mind that we should all be very impressed. He has no concerns over Dempsey's blatant attempts over the last year to shape the news, rather then report it, for after all, he sees himself as a news 'shaper' rather then reporter, for surely if certain others have the enormity of arrogance to believe they can 'effect' the case, then he, the Great and Sexy Frank who 'has the case' should be right there effecting it with them, because really, who is more important then Frank? Small, non-sexy people, like the Kerchers, Patrick Lumumba and especially Meredith, should stand aside so the Marvellous Frank can take the stage with the equally hot Amanda, for they are the really important people in this affair and if people don't realise that...he's just damn well gonna tell 'em!


Frank wrote:
The stupid people are getting obsessed about me too... good, stupid people, do the same like you did with the other one. She was no one, she was not qualified, she was not a journalist, she was just a cook (in your opinion). Now she's a writer at penguin.
So, stupid people, dish the dirt and talk shit about me too, collect all the jokes you find online, define me not qualified, play some tricks, find my address, my phone number, and maybe you'll bring the same luck to me too. It's not that I need because my life is already brilliant but it may help.

just wanna tell to anyone who follows this case, if the stupid people should write you I suggest you not to even answer, one day they may use any information you gave them against you. It's not that is bad because being defamated by such people is only positive and, as we have seen, it will bring you luck. But you have to know, especially if they please you or they offer you some collaborations or they introduce themselves as the ones who want justice for meredith or they send you their useless files.

January 15, 2009 2:12 AM

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"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:12 pm   Post subject: Re: Heart for Dinner Anyone?   

Michael wrote:
He has no concerns over Dempsey's blatant attempts over the last year to shape the news, rather then report it, for after all, he sees himself as a news 'shaper' rather then reporter...


(Thanks Daisy!) Frank does rather sound like he is off his meds.

Given all that people tell us about him (he seems to have few friends in Perugia and the girls now run a mile) I think we're actually a model of restraint.

Michael, that's an incisive point about his trying to shape the news. His repeated harassing and online ridicule of witnesses really ought to have him picked up.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:33 pm   Post subject: Donor time   

Michael wrote:

Quote:
He has no concerns over Dempsey's blatant attempts over the last year to shape the news, rather then report it, for after all, he sees himself as a news 'shaper' rather then reporter, for surely if certain others have the enormity of arrogance to believe they can 'effect' the case, then he, the Great and Sexy Frank who 'has the case' should be right there effecting it with them, because really, who is more important then Frank?


I was going to post yesterday that Frank had posted a new "opinion" piece about the lawsuit to ban the book, but I figured posters here check daily anyway. My guess is that Frank is working hard to carve out a place for himself as a serious journalist, but he isn't sure how to go about it so he's trying lots of different things.

I found it funny that, in the message you quote, he mentions people coming to him to offer their collaborations. I can only speak for myself, but as a former collaborator (a proofreader who tried to make Frank understandable in English, not always successfully) I can say that I certainly did not offer anything. Frank asked me once if I would proof something before publication, and then started sending everything my way. When the English was really unclear I would ask for the original Italian, and that was never forthcoming. It was frustrating to work that way.

I think you are right to note that Frank sounds bitter. I don't know what that is about. I got a very bitter email from him entitled "Merry Christmas." I can't divulge the contents without his permission, but if I published my end of the dialogue, everyone would see the depths of that bitterness. His comments about receiving useless files from certain quarters certainly refers to work by Kermit and others that was sent his way. He once posted one of the photos provided by Kermit in a presentation (the blood on the tap), so he is being disingenuous when he says the files are useless.

Frank's main problem, I think, is that because he hasn't earned a place in the world of journalism and sees that being a blogger is not quite the same thing he is terribly insecure. But he is also quite arrogant, and is convinced that he deserves to be taken seriously. Reading his blog these past few months has given me insight into his character and aims. He demands absolute fealty and in exchange wants to be able to act like the lord of the manor. He has actually written such things as "you can get all the information you need here, don't look elsewhere," and takes it quite personally when people criticize his work. The first thing a professional journalist - or a professional anything, for that matter - needs to develop is a thick skin about their work. People will criticize and the criticism is useful. It helps to strengthen arguments and correct falsehoods. The thick skin is needed to define the boundary between the self (ego) and the work. Frank has not cultivated a thick skin. That's why he wants loyalty and adoration; it feels good.

I think that's why he relates so well to Candace Dempsey. She similarly lacks the kind of thick skin that good journalists must have. Why, just the other day, her main concern about the photos Pete posted of her was that they were unflattering! I noted that I would not have posted them, but it needs to be restated that she should not have been in them. A professional journalist learns to stay out of the way and out of the fray. I notice that Pete removed two of the photos, having made his point. Candace should be grateful.

Candace and Frank want to be seen as having professional distance while also controlling the fray and taking sides. Incidentally, I just checked his blog and noticed that someone has posted information about a fundraiser for Amanda Knox, to be held on January 24 at Salty's. Salty's is an extremely well located restaurant (in West Seattle on the water, with a magnificent view of downtown Seattle) that serves terrible food. It is used for wedding receptions and parties. In this case, it will be the venue for a dinner and silent auction. I'll see what the price of admission is and keep you posted on the silent auction items. This is a popular way of raising money for charities, private schools, etc. The Fred Hutchison Cancer Research Center in Seattle does one annually, as does the Moyer Foundation, which raises money and develops programs for children in distress.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:36 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:09 pm   Post subject:    

Frank wrote:
Quote:
The stupid people are getting obsessed about me too... good, stupid people, do the same like you did with the other one. She was no one, she was not qualified, she was not a journalist, she was just a cook (in your opinion). Now she's a writer at penguin.
So, stupid people, dish the dirt and talk shit about me too, collect all the jokes you find online, define me not qualified, play some tricks, find my address, my phone number, and maybe you'll bring the same luck to me too. It's not that I need because my life is already brilliant but it may help.

just wanna tell to anyone who follows this case, if the stupid people should write you I suggest you not to even answer, one day they may use any information you gave them against you. It's not that is bad because being defamated by such people is only positive and, as we have seen, it will bring you luck. But you have to know, especially if they please you or they offer you some collaborations or they introduce themselves as the ones who want justice for meredith or they send you their useless files.

January 15, 2009 2:12 AM


I don't want to spend more time than is necessary on someone who already spends far too much time on their image, but a couple of points need to be made here.

First of all, Frank looks very unprofessional when he breaks into a rant of this kind on his blog, in the middle of a discussion about his opinion piece on the Knox lawsuit. Calling people stupid because they were not stupid enough to accept everything he says without questioning it is just ludicrous.

Second, if Frank wants to be taken seriously as a journalist, the first thing he needs to do is drop the alias and blog/write under his own name. He committed what I consider to be an unethical act when he allowed the Seattle Times to quote him as Frank Sfarzo without specifying that Frank Sfarzo is not his real name. What made it worse was that he gave the journalist a job title for himself that was fictitious. The journalist should have, but apparently did not, check the information before running with it. That is his mistake. I asked Frank about it because it did not tally with what he had already told me. I thought it might be true, after all. He told me IN WRITING that it was not true and he just said it because, well, you know, he had to give the journalist some kind of job title. I'm sorry, but no, you do not lie to a journalist or allow a journalist to publish false information about yourself and then expect to be taken seriously.

When I wrote a guest post for Frank, he used my real name without asking me. I asked him to change it and he laughed -- no big deal. I decided that in fact it was no big deal. My reason for keeping my handle is simple and can be verified by Steve Huff: Steve liked it and thought I should keep it. He said he usually advises people to blog under their own name, but that in this case the handle was fitting and described an attititude that this kind of case required. I have a great deal of respect for Steve and have found his advice to be useful up to now. But I have never denied being who I am or lied about what I do for a living. If Frank were some anonymous blogger or poster, it wouldn't matter. But he wants to be more than that. He just isn't willing to pay the price. I can't take him seriously under the circumstances, and that's putting it mildly.

Frank actually wanted me to remove my sentence (on TJMK) about his use of a "stage name" instead of his real name, but was unable to tell me why I should do so. I had a simple argument: what I wrote was true. Frank Sfarzo is not Frank's real name. Google his name and see what comes up. This is someone who was supposedly a journalist and a filmmaker in a past life. Again, that's what he posted on his blog. But those comments have been removed. Why?
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Offline Jumpy


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Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:27 pm

Posts: 231

Location: US

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:27 pm   Post subject:    

List Of Auction Items

Amanda Knox's first bong
A VW bug that doesn't work
A boat
A vibrator
A gift card from Macy's for $35
An autographed picture of Mr. Heavey
A letter of support from Cindy Anthony to Edda Mellas
A Beatles tape
A set of knives from Germany
A box of tissues
The ear of a cat
Assorted mis-matched earrings, hoops and studs
One letter from UW discharging Amanda Knox as a student
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:36 pm

Posts: 7006

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:30 pm   Post subject:    

IM wrote:

Quote:
I am speculating.
after watching 'murder by numbers"
with sandra bullock,
I wondered if this group also
video taped?
the boys in this movie were about
the same age as this group and kinda
felt similar.
just wondering?


That's an interesting speculation. I saw the film when it came out, and have thought of it more than once since this case became news. The two murderers certainly had no history of violence, did they?
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Offline Rhonda


Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:23 pm

Posts: 44

Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:47 pm   Post subject:    

Jumpy,

Now, that's funny. Thanks for the laugh!
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:25 pm   Post subject:    

I second Rhonda's statement. Great list, Jumpy! But you forgot one important detail: there are literally hundreds of unsold t-shirts, coffee mugs, teddy bears and other articles, all bearing the AK likeness and the Free Amanda slogan. Everyone who forks over 100 bucks to attend gets one of each item - that's right! one of each item - and the rest of the merchandise will be shipped to and stored in one of the empty hangars at the Boeing plant.
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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:42 pm   Post subject: Salty's on Alki   

I attended a "wake celebration" after a funeral a couple of years ago at Salty's on Alki. The room was downstairs in the building, and as I recall not that large. At $100 per plate for the Knox gathering, I would assume it would be a sit down dinner and not just appetizers? I don't think with that format the room would hold that many people.

I would like to hear Paul "get dem kids outta dere" Ciolino's presentation. And perhaps, for a fee, his autographs will be auctioned off as well with the dvd's to his 48 Hours appearance?

Great list Jumpy!
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:57 pm   Post subject: Auction   

Jumpy -

I took the liberty of posting your auction list on Frank's.

As you can imagine, it went down a storm :)

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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:34 pm   Post subject: Auction List   

LOL Jumpy,

Great list :lol:

I wonder if top of the list is the wannabe father's boat, or the camp tent that brings the family such happy memories of 2007 summer camping holiday, where they treated each other with lovely terms of endearment
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:57 pm   Post subject: Some salty talk   

Tara wrote:

Quote:
I attended a "wake celebration" after a funeral a couple of years ago at Salty's on Alki. The room was downstairs in the building, and as I recall not that large. At $100 per plate for the Knox gathering, I would assume it would be a sit down dinner and not just appetizers? I don't think with that format the room would hold that many people.


For silent auctions, Salty's can accommodate no more than 100 people, since the items being auctioned need to be displayed and this takes up space. As for the cost, Fridays and Saturdays are the most expensive nights. At this time of year, we're looking at about $8,000 dollars as a minimum. At least that's what I was told when I inquired.

So if a hundred people each pay 100 dollars, that equals 10,000 dollars, plus whatever the silent auction pulls in, less fixed costs (like the rental fee).

This assumes that all of the guests pay the recommended 100 dollars, which is not a given, especially in this part of town.

I wonder if the owner of Salty's - a West Seattle guy - has agreed to support the cause by giving them a price break?
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:07 pm   Post subject: Stupid Franko   

My stage name is Frank Sfarzo writes about stupid people?

Here is an example of how to be REALLY STUPID without pretending.

This is from the charlatan himself, this time he is not using his stage name is just 'Simple Franko'
BTW the woman (K) he was pestering answer him something along the lines of get lost I don't know you :lol:

2005-03-31 02:27 am
"KOLOBOSSI, DID THEY EVER TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE VERY BEAUTIFUL? CAN YOU WRITE ME SOMETHING SO WE KNOW EACH OTHER? THANKS KOLOSSI,
FRANKO FROM ITALY."
2befrank@gmail.com

2005-03-30 06:38 pm
"THat's how you also kiss?
Franko from Italy"
2befrank@gmail.com

2005-03-31 02:44 am
"my god kolobossi,
what you are!
Franko from italy,"
2befrank@gmail.com
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:15 pm   Post subject:    

To Jumpy's list, I would like to add action figures Mike Heavey and Anne Bremner, complete with wardrobe (a city suit, a judge's robe and gavel, and hiking boots and lederhosen for him; the Anne action figure comes with both a manicurist and a hair stylist) and accessories (a miniature BMW sports car with convertible top and personalized license plates that say GIDGET for Anne).

And in addition to the bong, I think the organizers should hit Charlie up for a year's supply of homegrown, low-buzz grade pot and a box of unsold, autographed copies of Doug Preston's Monster of Florence.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:19 pm   Post subject:    

Jools wrote:

Quote:
This is from the charlatan himself, this time he is not using his stage name is just 'Simple Franko'
BTW the woman (K) he was pestering answer him something along the lines of get lost I don't know you


:lol: :lol: :lol:

That was back in 2005, before Frank got famous under his stage name.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:36 pm   Post subject: Raffaele the journalist   

Tom Kington of the Observer, reporting in the Guardian, does his usual good job of sticking to the facts, providing new ones and offering balance. I also like it that he always seems to prefer using a photo of Meredith for the stories he files. This article is in last Sunday's Guardian. In it, he says that

Quote:
Sollecito, a student from a well-to-do family, has also exerted a powerful fascination over the Italian public. As bloggers on both sides of the Atlantic row over the case, he has written a regular column from his cell for a newspaper in his home town near Bari. Since his conviction, Guede has divided his time between planning his appeal and releasing samples of his poetry to his lawyers for publication.


Notice that he mentions the blog wars.
Question: Has anyone read Raffaele's column?
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Offline Kermit


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:02 pm   Post subject: You scratch my back ...   

Skeptical Bystander wrote:
His comments about receiving useless files from certain quarters certainly refers to work by Kermit and others that was sent his way. He once posted one of the photos provided by Kermit in a presentation (the blood on the tap), so he is being disingenuous when he says the files are useless.


Frank and I exchanged a handful of emails in the spring. I won't reproduce them, but he was enthusiastic about the house plan and other presentations. He offered to post them, crediting me. I said thanks but there should be a link or reference to the then TrueCrime discussion board. That was unacceptable to him, obviously, as he never posted either the house plan or any other presentation on his board.

He did continue to write me, asking for the La Nazione luminol images, which I sent him, and for information on some of the aerial images in the Powerpoints. I stopped providing material or replies when I realised he wasn't going to reply to my only request of him: an easy question, in June I sent him that photo of the numbered neighbours' flats overlooking the cottage, and asked him to indicate which flat was Sra. Nara's. Since he kept sending further mails but never replied to the simple Nara question (which I repeated a couple of times), I didn't reply to his last email, where he asked about how to stitch together images.

Anyway, the TrueCrime crowd was able to identify Sra. Nara's place by ourselves. (this provoked derision from The Cook, something I still don't understand ... Nara is quite an important witness, even The Cook should recognise that, and knowing where Nara lived helps us understand what Nara saw/heard ... that's the same sort of derision which spews forth when we try to examine if persons standing in Piazza Grimana are able to see the cottage gate ... "clear as mud" The Cook says, when in fact the geometry - and Oceania's photos - show that reality is in fact contrary to what IW writes).
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:23 pm   Post subject: Re: You scratch my back ...   

Aircraft came down in the Hudson; how peculiar; I could see people shivering on the wings. I hope their Friday goes a little better.

Kermit wrote:
Anyway, the TrueCrime crowd was able to identify Sra. Nara's place by ourselves. (this provoked derision from The Cook, something I still don't understand ... Nara is quite an important witness, even The Cook should recognise that, and knowing where Nara lived helps us understand what Nara saw/heard ... that's the same sort of derision which spews forth when we try to examine if persons standing in Piazza Grimana are able to see the cottage gate ... "clear as mud" The Cook says, when in fact the geometry - and Oceania's photos - show that reality is in fact contrary to what IW writes).


Kermit, first, you figured out Chez Nara, and second, you have had several THOUSAND looks.

No way the Cook can compete with that. No way. You and the other frog should obviously ban her.

The NBC reproduction of your knife slide was the pdf version on TJMK I believe.

We know who checks out TJMK regularly - almost everybody now. Except Seattle media.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:24 pm   Post subject: The cook's delirium   

Kermit wrote:

Quote:
Anyway, the TrueCrime crowd was able to identify Sra. Nara's place by ourselves. (this provoked derision from The Cook, something I still don't understand ... Nara is quite an important witness, even The Cook should recognise that, and knowing where Nara lived helps us understand what Nara saw/heard ... that's the same sort of derision which spews forth when we try to examine if persons standing in Piazza Grimana are able to see the cottage gate ... "clear as mud" The Cook says, when in fact the geometry - and Oceania's photos - show that reality is in fact contrary to what IW writes).


Thanks for the clarification, Kermit. I don't like it when people "overwrite reality" from the perspective of their personal wrath, pride or whatever it is. Frank stated that his collaboarators were clamoring to work for him, when in fact it was the other way around, at least in my case. And I seem to recall that he asked me for one of your presentations, which I supplied.

I remember the Cook's derision with regard to Sra Nara and her exact location, as well as her impatiance with attempts to clarify what can and cannot be seen from Piazza Grimana. I think derision ("as if") and impatience ("basta!") are the two attitudes that the Cook reverts to whenever her desire to overwrite reality is questioned or resisted by anyone.

Sometimes overwriting reality is more accurately described as "deleting the past to suit present and future aims."

Incidentally, among the witnesses mentioned in Kington's article is a "university lecturer" from Seattle, who will testify as a character witness for Knox.
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Offline Jumpy


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:27 pm   Post subject:    

Ahhahaah Michael.

I imagine those who don't like the list of items won't be sleeping very well tonight.

The trial is finally here!!!
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Offline Jumpy


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:41 pm   Post subject:    

Anyway, with the enconomy in the tank, how many would really shell out $100 for a lost cause? I'd prefer to save money for spirits and food and a cab ride for next Tuesday!

Amanda and Raffaele just can't get a break. Stupid inauguration.
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:45 am   Post subject:    

Article from Peter Popham at The Independent.

"Amanda Knox: innocent abroad, or a calculating killer? Now the jury must decide"
http://tinyurl.com/a77cco

Seems he worked a bit harder on this one than his previous articles on the case.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:59 am   Post subject:    

Jools wrote (of Peter Popham and his article in the Independent):
Quote:
Seems he worked a bit harder on this one than his previous articles on the case.


There are some interesting tidbits. For example, speaking of the interest in Knox's diary and alleged escapades, he writes:
Quote:
It is all prurient and intrusive but by no means irrelevant. For the question of Ms Knox's sexual appetites, and how far she will go to gratify them, go to the heart of this disturbing case.


He also notes that:
Quote:
At the end of that first trial, Mr Mignini told Judge Micheli that Ms Kercher's murder "was premeditated ... a 'rite' celebrated on the occasion of the night of Halloween", postponed for one day because there was a Halloween dinner party in Ms Kercher's room. He added: "The presumed assassins contented themselves with the evening of 1 November to perform their do-it-yourself rite, when for some hours it would again be the night of All Saints."


Judge Micheli's reasons for sending Knox and Sollecito to trial for murder are, according to Popham:
Quote:
...the weight of circumstantial evidence against them, as well hotly contested forensic claims, including DNA traces on Ms Kercher's bra strap and on a knife found under Mr Sollecito's bed.


This is the first I've heard of the knife being found under Sollecito's bed. Is he confusing this with the set of knives from Germany under Knox's bed or is this a new detail?


And this:
Quote:
But Judge Micheli found her account unconvincing, "mucking about in the house and taking a shower with all that blood [from the murder] around". He agreed with the prosecutors' contention that the crime scene had been tampered with and partially cleaned up in a successful attempt to remove Ms Knox's fingerprints. And he went along with the prosecution's claim that Ms Knox was responsible for the idea of involving Ms Kercher in a sexual game, "being the only person in a position to know that that evening Meredith would be alone in the house".



Finally, Bompiani, the publisher of the book, has so far declined to pull the book, arguing that it is already in circulation
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:10 am   Post subject:    

Hello Everyone.

Good site. Refreshing to see.

Came across it by coincidence 10 days ago and have been trying to read everything as much as possible since. Still only have read the tip of the iceberg so far. There is a lot of information here.

I am glad Bompiani are not pulling the book. I ordered it the day before the gag attempt.

In Australia it is already tomorrow, and today I woke up from a dream at sunrise, with a feeling of:

Everything will be all right.

Why I feel so is explained in a translation of the emergency call that I have temporarily put on a tiny wiki I started (where I want to organise my thoughts about translations, inspired by this forum in part, partly also by the work that the University for Foreigners is doing).

Here is the link:
http://sites.google.com/site/teczaepam/ ... s/the-call

It is rather long (maybe too long?) for only forty seconds of words, so feel free to skip over it, but what it boils down to is, in essence, that it is all in the details.

Cheers, everyone.
And Pax Vobiscum.
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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:47 am   Post subject: Catnip's analysis of the Emergency Call   

Hi Catnip, :)

It's nice to see you!

Wow, I just went and read your analysis of the phone call. I had asked about the male voices in the background a long time ago, and was told by someone they were in the background at the police station, not at the cottage? Interesting. This took time for you to put together and it's really terrific. I need to read it over a few more times, but one thing that jumped out was the use of the word "closed"...a total of 4 times.

If someone was really upset and frightened because of a break-in, wouldn't they be a bit more animated and say "The door is LOCKED, and we don't know where the roommate is"?

"Closed" instead of locked doesn't make sense to me! Especially 4 times CLOSED!

Thanks again and Welcome! 8-)
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:20 am   Post subject: BBC Reporting Live From Perugia   

The BBC are now reporting live from Perugia. They have just broadcast a piece directly from inside the courtroom itself providing a good look around. Raffaele and Amanda will both be in a cage along the side of the courtroom for the duration of the trial.




Catnip -

Welcome to Perugia Murder File :) As soon as I get a moment, I'll be heading over to your wiki site to have a look. More from me later.

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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:31 am   Post subject: Seattle PI Andrea Vogt   

Here's a new article in the Seattle PI by Andrea Vogt:

Andrea Vogt in Seattle PI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:36 am   Post subject: BBC   

...Seattle-born Amanda, 22, and Raffaele, 25, from the southern Italian city of Giovinazzo, have both denied involvement in Meredith's death.

Middle-class

But how did these bright, middle-class young people with their lives ahead of them end up being charged with such a grim murder and, after more than a year in custody, what is likely to be their defence?

According to Raffaele's letter to an Italian magazine, the pair met at a concert just two weeks before the murder....


...For Perugia journalist Frank Sfarzo, who is writing a detailed blog on the trial, the involvement of drugs is just one factor in what he describes as a fascinating case.

"What also makes it interesting is there is a genuine mystery about what happened, and, of course, the sex.

"It's also because these are two young people with supporters and enemies all over the world, and the fact that it all happened in this beautiful town."


BBC




So, was it one, or two weeks that Amanda and Raffaele had known each other?


Everone, prepare for Frank's head to get rather large (I mean, larger then normal), after being quoted by the BBC. But, he's also clearly given the BBC his fake name...oops.

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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:57 am   Post subject: A quote from Frank   

Frank just doesn't get it. Here "Frank Sfarzo" is quoted in a BBC article just posted:

Frank said:
Quote:
For Perugia journalist Frank Sfarzo, who is writing a detailed blog on the trial, the involvement of drugs is just one factor in what he describes as a fascinating case.

"What also makes it interesting is there is a genuine mystery about what happened, and, of course, the sex.

"It's also because these are two young people with supporters and enemies all over the world, and the fact that it all happened in this beautiful town."


For the record, I don't think any member of this board is an "enemy" of Knox and Sollecito. We are seeking the truth of what happened and justice for Meredith Kercher.

I thought when one goes "on the record" with the press, they should use their real name? What's the protocal with this?
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:05 am   Post subject: Andrea's Article   

Thanks for that link Tara. Some interesting points by Andrea Vogt:

Andrea Vogt wrote:
The evidence includes footprints and fingerprints, mixed blood droplets in the bathroom that Kercher and Knox shared, and the alleged murder weapon -- a knife found in a shoebox in Sollecito's apartment that prosecutors say had Knox's DNA on the handle and Kercher's on the blade, despite having been cleaned with bleach.



Andrea confirms and reinforces the fact that the police are maintaining that knife 'was' cleaned with bleach!


Andrea Vogt wrote:
But three of Knox's college friends are planning to testify for the defense.

"Because her character has been lied about so much, we are likely going to Perugia to be character witnesses," said Madison Paxton, a UW student who shared a dorm with Knox.

The friends correspond with Knox regularly and spend Wednesday nights at Knox's mother's house in Seattle for her weekly call home from prison.



Confirmation of the Knox Camp/Friends of Amanda weekly meetings at the Knox/Mellas house


Andrea Vogt wrote:
"I last saw her in here in Seattle in mid-August of 2007," said Andrew Seliber, another character witness. "And the next time I am going to see her is in a courtroom in Italy."



We now have the name of another witness for the defence. I have to ask...how many character witnesses does one need? What Amanda really needs, are witnesses that can back up any details of her version of events...like her trips back and forth from the cottage on the morning of the 2nd at the times she said they happened. I've not heard of any so far.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:13 am   Post subject: Knox Defence Fund Pluuged by Bloomberg   

The Amanda Knox Defence Fund is even getting a plug from BLOOMBERG

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:18 am   Post subject: Bremner's Back   

Yet the trial is being held in Perugia. The court denied a change of venue request.

Italian lawyer Luca Escoffier is a visiting scholar at the University of Washington.

Seattle attorney Anne Bremner is a former prosecutor and defense attorney who has studied the case and advising the "Friends of Amanda Support Group" in Seattle.

They disagree over whether trying Amanda in Perugia could stack the deck against her.

"When you look at the United States versus Italy, this would be a case that would cry out for a change of venue because of the publicity that's been so negative in Perugia,” said Bremner.

"Because I think the case is known, over, across Italy, so I don't see any difference in asking for a change of venue,” said Escoffier.

KING 5 Investigator Linda Byron asked: In other words people outside Perugia know just as much about this case?

“I think so,” said Escoffier.

There are major differences between the Italian and American criminal courts starting with the jury. In the U.S., a jury of 12 citizens decides the case. Everyone gets an equal vote and the vote must be unanimous for a conviction.

In Italy, the jury is made up of two judges, including the president of the court, and six citizens. And it takes just a simple majority to convict.

"They have equal votes and in the case of a tie the President has a double vote so they are 8, but the president has a double vote,” said Escoffier.

“If Amanda were being tried here, both sides would get a say in who's on the jury,” said Bremner. "That's fairness when you can choose 12 jurors, select them through voir dire and jury selection. In Italy, zero, she has zero input. They're already impaneled."

The jurors were selected last month at random from a list of Perugia-area residents. They are screened by the president of the court.

"If they are already made up their mind and publicly expressed their ideas about the case, about the judgment, they can be removed,” said Bremner.

Then there's the timeframe. In the U.S., once a trial starts it moves quickly, with court held four to five days a week until there's a verdict. In Italy, the court meets about four times a month, meaning it could be a very slow process, taking months and months and months, going into summer or even fall.

"Keep in mind the pre-charging hearing, lasted up to a year, here it would be 72 hours, so it's going to be long...they have infrequent meetings," said Bremner.

So jurors can't be sequestered. But Escoffier says Americans shouldn't fear the Italian system.

"I think that it will be fair," he said.

KING 5 Investigator Linda Byron asked: "And presume her innocence?"

"The presumption of innocence is a constitutional guarantee," said Escoffier.

Amanda's parents are hoping for the best, but they're already preparing to take her case to the court of appeals, and even supreme court if she's convicted.

"You don't leave your innocent daughter in a foreign prison unless you've done everything," said Edda Mellas, Amanda's mother.

Legal observers say that while Italian criminal trials take a long time, the verdict is usually announced almost immediately following closing statements by the prosecution and defense. Knox could face life in prison if convicted. Italy does not have a death penalty.


KING5

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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:22 am   Post subject: KING 5 REPORT   

Hi Michael,

The video of the KING 5 report is worth watching. It should be up on the site in 30-45 minutes.

But, it's still from the interview Linda Byron did with Curt and Edda back before Thanksgiving in "a Seattle living room"!
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:27 am   Post subject: Re: KING 5 REPORT   

Tara wrote:
Hi Michael,

The video of the KING 5 report is worth watching. It should be up on the site in 30-45 minutes.

But, it's still from the interview Linda Byron did with Curt and Edda back before Thanksgiving in "a Seattle living room"!



Hi Tara,

I think what they did was just do one long massive set of interviews to give them a quarter year supply that they could then chop up and publish in bits over the period. On the vids, I always seem to have massive problems getting that site's videos to play.

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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:43 am   Post subject: Video   

Michael,

Videos on KING take forever to load, that's for sure! Curt and Edda - nothing new. Same orange shirts, fall colors and fire in the fireplace. But watching Anne Bremner with her arms flailing about versus the calm, well-spoken and good looking Italian Law Scholar, Luca Escoffier was fabulous. Night and day. He has complete faith in the Italian Justice System - oh, and so do I !! :D
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:48 am   Post subject: AP   

Trial opens Friday for US suspect in Italy
By MARTA FALCONI


...Lawyers say they expect the two defendants — who both proclaim their innocence — to appear before the eight-member jury in the tiny courthouse here, although their presence is not required under Italian law...


ASSOCIATED PRESS



Hmmm...Raffaele and Amanda don't even actually 'have' to be there today.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:54 am   Post subject: Re: Video   

Tara wrote:
Michael,

Videos on KING take forever to load, that's for sure! Curt and Edda - nothing new. Same orange shirts, fall colors and fire in the fireplace. But watching Anne Bremner with her arms flailing about versus the calm, well-spoken and good looking Italian Law Scholar, Luca Escoffier was fabulous. Night and day. He has complete faith in the Italian Justice System - oh, and so do I !! :D



Well...I know that I do 'not' have faith in Anne Bremner. The woman has come out with too many blatant falsehoods. Her job is simple...to publicly defend Knox in front of the camera as much as possible and to smear the Italians as much as possible, and don't let such things as the 'truth' get in the way of those objectives.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:34 am   Post subject: Blood Diluted With Water   

This is an older story I've found, but one that further confirms the 'clean-up' by the presence of blood diluted with water:


Kercher suspects 'washed blood'


Two people accused of killing British student Meredith Kercher tried to clean up the victim's blood, a lawyer claims.

Valter Biscotti, for third suspect Rudy Hermann Guede, told an Italian court that traces of blood diluted with water were found at the scene.

He suggested Mr Guede's co-defendants Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito had tried to wash away the evidence.

"We think the pair probably came back to the house to clean up afterwards because there was found to be blood diluted with water," he said.


BBC

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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:45 am   Post subject:    

Hi Tara (Michael, too),

Wow! Words divide things differently in different languages, more than I ever thought.

It didn't occur to me until you mentioned it, that "closed" and "locked" could have different implications.

Chiuso = not open (for whatever reason, including being locked)

A closed road, path, shop, beach, treasure chest, park, door, city, apartment, room (all in the sense of "off limits").
If a door is closed, and I'm calling for help, the implication is that I cannot open it (for whatever reason, usually for
being locked).

The nearest is: to lock (with a key) = chiudere a chiave [=to close with a key]; which is too long to say; and not a
naturally instinctive way of expressing it, because the short way + implication already conveys "locked", specifically
"cannot get in".

the door won't lock = la porta non vuole chiudersi [=the door latch isn't working (literally, the door does not want to
close itself)]

Does "shut" convey the meaning better?

to lock someone in = chiudere dentro [=close inside; shut in];
Chiudere fuori [=shut outside] (like you do with naughty dogs) is equivalent to English "to lock (someone) out", "to shut
out".

"The door's shut!" is a potential alternative translation, carrying the same implication in English as in Italian. I'll add
it in. Thanks.


The repetition remains, though, whichever words are chosen. The shut door concept is foundational for the following
statements about not knowing where the room-mate is. But the Postal Police were already there, weren't they? So why is the
door so important? I'm still confused, even now.

About where the other sounds are coming from, there is some electronic interference/feedback going on (at the point of
duplication of the soundtrack, and I can imagine several different scenarios how that can occur).

The person using a reporting-back-to-a-superior-officer style and saying "What a pity!" and "No, no, no" could very well be
at the station, right up behind the operator, right behind his shoulder in fact, and talking as loudly as he can. And the
sympathy and sadness in the tone of voice is truly genuine. Maybe he is really rude (to the operator) just this once and is
talking to his wife who has just told him his little daughter's kitten was just run over. That kind of sympathy.

I unconsciously visualised the other end of the comms line, and that found its way into the "sounds as if" remark in trying
to convey what the meaning in the tone of voice was. My intention (not made explicit) was that evidentiary times of calls
made by all parties and witness statements of who said what would be needed to clarify the context.

I'll adjust the remark accordingly, and de-link it from being taken (however inadvertently) as part of the factorial side of
things. Time for some shut-eye now, though.


Thanks for the feedback. It is appreciated. Happy to correct and polish.
This case is already complicated enough without having extra spanners falling into the works.


P.S. A quick scan just now through various language Google news items (about 30+ more) shows that each langauge has its own favourite terms for "Awhh! she's so cute and looks like she wouldn't hurt a fly!" There will be a lot of that in the comning days. Some of the eipthets are actually really nice, though. They evoke instinctive reactions, too.

Ciao tutti.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:49 am   Post subject: Amanda and Raffaele Now in Court   

Amanda and Raffaele are now in court...but sitting next to their lawyers rather then in the cages at this present time. All press cameras have now been removed from the courtroom and it's unknown as yet if they'll be reintroduced. There is however currently a poor quality court camera providing a feed to the press room - BBC News 24.

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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:44 am   Post subject:    

On trial for a sex murder or Oscar nominee, you decide

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... rcher.html
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:51 am   Post subject:    

Post deleted.

Daisy beat me with the pics. :lol:
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Offline nicki

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:18 am   Post subject:    

daisysteiner wrote:
On trial for a sex murder or Oscar nominee, you decide

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... rcher.html


Looking at Knox 's pictures has been a shock. Someone should explain to her that she is not starring in a low budget splatter movie, this is real life and she is at high risk to get a real sentence!

There must be something seriously wrong inside this woman's head. I am sure of it.
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Offline loz


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:34 am   Post subject:    

There are going to be about 250 witnesses according to the BBC. Cameras are banned as the journos were said to cause a commotion. This trial could last til September. So, it's a long drawn out affair.
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:43 am   Post subject:    

Decision: Journalists allowed in the courtroom, but no cameras or audio.

Google translation - La Nazione

Journalists seen practicing their shorthand.

My joke. :lol:
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:53 am   Post subject:    

More pics from the Court.

To protect the victim the Judge also says that journalists can be cleared from the court, if or when the evidence makes it necessary.

La Stampa
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:01 pm   Post subject:    

Sky News Breaking News.

PUBLIC TRIAL FOR MEREDITH ACCUSED.

Video of Knox and Sollecito in court:

http://tinyurl.com/97tkqd
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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:02 pm   Post subject:    

Sorry Brian! :D

Sollecito looks like he knows the score. Knox looks like she is on another planet.
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Offline loz


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:05 pm   Post subject:    

Brian S - seems like Knox is enjoying her day out. Can't believe how happy and bouncy she is.

Is she sweet or off the wall?
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Offline ozzie


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:14 pm   Post subject:    

Wow she really is completely nuts- she has to be out of her mind to be grinning like that. Totally gobsmacking!
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:17 pm   Post subject:    

I think the broad grin is probably an exchange with her aunt.

BUT

as for the overall happy/casual appearence, she's had acting lessons don't ya know. :lol:
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:36 pm   Post subject:    

Audio will be allowed for "specific parts"(????). but only if there is agreement between all the parties.

Google translation of Tam Tam
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:50 pm   Post subject:    

I think:

Bongiorno is objecting to the admittance of Raffaele's original statement which lead to his arrest - he didn't have a lawyer. (the "I told you a load of crap" one where he said he didn't think of the inconsistencies in what Amanda said)

AGI

Virgilio Notizie
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:57 pm   Post subject:    

Nick Pisa:

Who's on trial here? Press locked in cage as Foxy Knoxy grins her way to court to be tried for murdering British student Meredith

Daily Mail

:lol:
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:04 pm   Post subject:    

The presiding judge in the case, Giancarlo Massei, barred cameras from the courtroom Friday morning after initial proceedings and said he could completely close portions of the trial dealing with the most graphic sexual assault allegations... The number of reporters forced court officials to seat some of them at the defense table at the start of the case.

Massei said he would allow a closed-circuit television feed into the court's press room to let reporters who couldn't get a seat watch proceedings -- a feed that would be cut if the case is closed.


CNN



he ruled that all evidence would be held in public, except when the court agreed that "sensitive" matters would cause particular offence to the victim's family.

He did, however, ban television cameras and photographers from the court in future, with only writing journalists admitted to the courtroom and to a press room set aside for them at the courthouse. Photographers and TV cameramen were only allowed in court for the opening session....


The Times
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:49 pm   Post subject:    

Brian S. wrote:
I think:

Bongiorno is objecting to the admittance of Raffaele's original statement which lead to his arrest - he didn't have a lawyer. (the "I told you a load of crap" one where he said he didn't think of the inconsistencies in what Amanda said)

AGI

Virgilio Notizie



Request rejected.

Raffaele's statement "was voluntary" and therefore the rules weren't broken. Statement to be allowed as evidence.

Google translation Virgilio Notizie
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:53 pm   Post subject:    

Amanda's Prison Diary to be allowed as evidence??

Meredith / Amanda Memorials acquired in the process
In the texts of the American girl reconstructions and feelings


Perugia, 16 gen. Perugia, Jan. 16. (Apcom) - The memorial to Amanda Knox may be acquired as part of the process for the death of Meredith Kercher who was officially started this morning at 9 at the Court of Perugia. In memorials - several drafts by Amanda - there is a po 'of all: his particular personality until his feelings after the discovery of the body of Meredith and the doubts that might be Raffaele urge, the former boyfriend, the killer of the girl English.


Virgilio Notizie
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:54 pm   Post subject: Protest   

Brian S. wrote:
Nick Pisa:

Who's on trial here? Press locked in cage as Foxy Knoxy grins her way to court to be tried for murdering British student Meredith

Daily Mail

:lol:



In that article you can see Nick Pisa in the cage :) However, it seems that it was the print press that put themselves in the cages in protest about the lack of seating provided for them:


THE GUARDIAN

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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:00 pm   Post subject:    

Video from the court:

LA7
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:39 pm   Post subject: Adjourned?   

The BBC are saying the trial has been adjourned until 6th February!

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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:02 pm   Post subject:    

Invaluable, all these links and comments that Brian, Michael and others have been throwing up here so quickly.

I have a whole bunch of shots. You saw the one of AK and RS checking out one another? Awww...

By the look of where Knox is looking, there seems to be a balcony at the back of the courtroom.

No report of any friends or supporters being present, but unless she grins at strangers that way (probable) maybe they were up there.

Will Rudy testify?! And if so what! The 80,000 pound gorilla hanging over the courtroom.

The second judge sits at a lower level than the first judge. Same level as the jury. Any other surprises you see?
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:03 pm   Post subject:    

What the lawyers claim:

Google translation - La Nazione
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Offline Brian S.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:17 pm   Post subject:    

Dates:

The President of the Court of Assizes of Perugia has since admitted to the hearing of the texts presented by the parties and also the memorial written by Amanda Knox November 6 2007. Giancarlo Massei, then postponed to February 6 near the continuation of the hearing.

Other hearings will be held on 7, 13, 14, 27 and February 28. For the month of March are six hearings scheduled: on 13 and 14, 20, 21 and 27 and 28. Five appointments already set for April 3 and 4, 18, 23 and 24th.


Google translation - La Nazione

I've read elsewhere that Mignini will be presenting his case and calling his first witnesses on Feb 6/7th
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:19 pm   Post subject: Aunt and Uncle   

Fast Pete wrote:
By the look of where Knox is looking, there seems to be a balcony at the back of the courtroom.

No report of any friends or supporters being present, but unless she grins at strangers that way (probable) maybe they were up there.




Hi Pete. Amanda's aunt and uncle were there:


"The American also exchanged a smile with her aunt who was sat in the back of the court but her parents Curt and Edda did not attend the opening.
Christine Hagge said: 'I am just so happy to see her. She seems to have lost weight compared to when I last saw her.' "


THE DAILY MAIL

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:26 pm   Post subject: DNA on Bra   

Brian S. wrote:
What the lawyers claim:

Google translation - La Nazione



So Brian, now Raffaele's defence are trying to claim that it isn't his DNA on the bra strap? Oh well, if the contamination claim doesn't work, switch to the old 'It's not actually his DNA' defence.

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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:32 pm   Post subject: The Today Show on NBC   

Interview with Curt, Edda and Deanna this morning on The Today Show. Deanna should be muzzled in my opinion.

TODAY SHOW INTERVIEW

I agree with everyone. Waking up to the smiling Amanda Knox was indeed perplexing. A quick smile to her aunt and uncle is understandable. Almost all the pictures are of her smiling - she should keep those teeth hidden away. Something isn't right with her to not take this more seriously. Was she "coached" by her legal team to be cheerful and overtly confident? I find it very disrespectful.
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Offline Rhonda


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:32 pm   Post subject:    

Kurt & Edda were just on the Today show with Little sis. They said that her aunt was there because they are not allowed in until they are called to testify.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:41 pm   Post subject:    

Hi everyone and welcome Catnip,
Thanks for posting all the vital links. I've got some reading and viewing to do this morning!

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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:42 pm   Post subject: Re: Aunt and Uncle   

Michael wrote:
Hi Pete. Amanda's aunt and uncle were there:


Thanks Michael. To your knowledge, have the Kerchers and the Knox parents ever met one another? I believe not.

I have the huge suspicion that some of them or all of them are NOT looking forward to that encounter.

At Rudy's trial, the Kerchers were in the court - and Curt and Edda were skulking outside, way above on the hillside looking down.

I guess it is a question of who gets there first. Despite the PR campaign the Kerchers have such huge moral authority.

What an outstanding impressive family they really are.

And I love their accents. Do you talk like that? And are there any recordings of Meredith speaking?
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:46 pm   Post subject:    

Rhonda wrote:
Kurt & Edda were just on the Today show with Little sis. They said that her aunt was there because they are not allowed in until they are called to testify.


The Today Show, again?! Anyway thanks Rhonda, invaluable.

Yeah, I guess that is standard practice for all witnesses. I now wonder if it even might apply to the Kerchers.
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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:57 pm   Post subject:    

“It’s because she’s an American,” Deanna told Lauer. “They don’t really like here there because she’s a pretty girl and they see her as some target that they can get to, because she’s from a different country.”

The above is Deanna's response to the question "Why is Amanda a suspect?"

My reaction? I have no words to describe my response other than rude sweary ones directed at Deanna. Am I still posting and reading about the same trial as the Knox's? Did they understand why Amanda was denied house arrest? I'm really starting to wonder...
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:06 pm   Post subject: Too in Love to Murder   

'Too In Love To Murder Meredith'


Amanda Knox and her former boyfriend had no need to spice up their love life with the type of sordid sex game that led to the death of Meredith Kercher, their defence has said.


Knox and ex-partner Raffaele Sollecito were not a "bored couple" looking for excitement, lawyer Giulia Buongiorno said at the opening of their trial for Meredith's murder.

She told a court in Perugia, Italy, that the pair had fallen in love just two weeks before Meredith was found dead in November 2007.

They were "two lovebirds in the first weeks of their romance," said Ms Buongiorno, a star lawyer who has defended several prominent Italian politicians.



SKY NEWS

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Offline indie


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:07 pm   Post subject: Re: KING 5 REPORT   

Tara wrote:
Hi Michael,

The video of the KING 5 report is worth watching. It should be up on the site in 30-45 minutes.

But, it's still from the interview Linda Byron did with Curt and Edda back before Thanksgiving in "a Seattle living room"!



Like Tara said, don't miss this video. Nice simple but informative summary of the court proceedings.


The fact that there is so much time between court days, there will be NO excuse for both sides to be fully prepared for their presentations.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:11 pm   Post subject: Re: Aunt and Uncle   

Fast Pete wrote:
Michael wrote:
Hi Pete. Amanda's aunt and uncle were there:


Thanks Michael. To your knowledge, have the Kerchers and the Knox parents ever met one another? I believe not.

I have the huge suspicion that some of them or all of them are NOT looking forward to that encounter.

At Rudy's trial, the Kerchers were in the court - and Curt and Edda were skulking outside, way above on the hillside looking down.

I guess it is a question of who gets there first. Despite the PR campaign the Kerchers have such huge moral authority.

What an outstanding impressive family they really are.

And I love their accents. Do you talk like that? And are there any recordings of Meredith speaking?



No, I don't believe they have. That will be a most awkward moment for both families! However, I would imagine that they'll be kept a very good distance apart.

Umm..well, I suppose I do talk like that.

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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:13 pm   Post subject:    

I just happened across this article in Panorama, written in Italian by Andrea Vogt, who has been reporting for the Seattle PI from Italy. It was published today and is about Amanda Knox's Seattle. Refreshingly, it goes beyond interviews with friends and family, showcasing voices with views that differ from what is being reported by local media.

http://tinyurl.com/8csuag
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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:18 pm   Post subject: WHAT A MADHOUSE!   

Watching this video shot from the front of the courtroom shows people standing on chairs? and simply a madhouse in the courtroom. I think I recognize a couple of people covering this case. It's hard to see if there's a balcony or not. With this kind of melee, shouldn't the accused at least be hancuffed? After all, they're accused of murder! The jouralists are not the people that should be in the cage, in my opinion.

DAILY EXPRESS VIDEO OF COURTROOM


Last edited by Tara on Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Fly by Night


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:25 pm   Post subject: Re: Aunt and Uncle   

Michael wrote:
"The American also exchanged a smile with her aunt who was sat in the back of the court but her parents Curt and Edda did not attend the opening."


That's because they are in New York this morning, making the rounds on the major US network morning shows, singing the same old tired tune: "when the truth comes out all sane people will see she is 100% innocent and had nothing to do with any of this." Since the court proceedings will be open to the public, I guess all sane people will be able to make up their own minds on the matter and not have to rely on the incredibly vague family summations of the evidence against their daughter.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:38 pm   Post subject: Big TV push   

Michael wrote:
"The American also exchanged a smile with her aunt who was sat in the back of the court but her parents Curt and Edda did not attend the opening."

FBN wrote:
Quote:
That's because they are in New York this morning, making the rounds on the major US network morning shows, singing the same old tired tune: "when the truth comes out all sane people will see she is 100% innocent and had nothing to do with any of this." Since the court proceedings will be open to the public, I guess all sane people will be able to make up their own minds on the matter and not have to rely on the incredibly vague family summations of the evidence against their daughter.


I think you're right. I found a two-minute video from this morning's Good Morning America, but I can't get it to open. It keeps bouncing to the next story, which is about how overbreeding has made British bulldogs fat and has compromised their health. So they must straighten up, slim down and fly right.

Does the other major network, um, would that be CBS, have a morning show too? It would be fairly easy to get from studio to studio in one morning.
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Offline indie


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:40 pm   Post subject:    

Michael,

This page is taking forever to refresh for me. Is it possible to start a page 2 now or will that upset the flow here?

Thanks
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Offline nicki

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:43 pm   Post subject:    

From the Corriere: http://tinyurl.com/9tm8x4

-"Amanda smiles and plays with the Penal Code book on thre desk. She looks very comfortable amidst the crowd of jounalists and photographers"
-"She exchanges glances with Sollecito once in awhile but nothing more"
-Raffaele facial expressions go from astonished to sad"
-"The city of Perugia is not showing much interest for the trial.In the afternoon, the audience have left the courtroom and went down from ten to three attendees.One thing is clear: Perugia is not frenzied, this can't be compared to the Erba murder trial"
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:48 pm   Post subject: Refresh Times   

indie wrote:
Michael,

This page is taking forever to refresh for me. Is it possible to start a page 2 now or will that upset the flow here?

Thanks



Hi Indie,

I fear that will make little difference. The slow down is caused by the amount of traffic we're getting on this page and the fact that a lot of people are posting messages. When you get a huge slowdown, 9 times out of 10 it's because someone is posting or editing a message. In any case, we'll be on a new page very soon, since we're almost at the end of this one :)

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Offline Tara


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:54 pm   Post subject: Uncanny similarities?   

Does anyone else do a doubletake when seeing these two? Maybe they just have the same hairstylist, but they sure look like they could be related to one another!






Last edited by Tara on Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:03 pm   Post subject: daylife photos   

More photos of the two defendants entering the courtroom on the daylife.com website

http://www.daylife.com/search?q=Amanda+Knox

When the trial starts in earnest, we won't be seeing many pictures like these...


Last edited by guermantes on Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:11 pm   Post subject: All you gotta do is act naturally   

Catnip wrote:

Quote:
Everything will be all right.

Why I feel so is explained in a translation of the emergency call that I have temporarily put on a tiny wiki I started (where I want to organise my thoughts about translations, inspired by this forum in part, partly also by the work that the University for Foreigners is doing).

Here is the link:
http://sites.google.com/site/teczaepam/ ... s/the-call

It is rather long (maybe too long?) for only forty seconds of words, so feel free to skip over it, but what it boils down to is, in essence, that it is all in the details.



If you haven't already, take the time to read Catnip's excellent, professional quality translation of the famous phone call. The introductory words about the process of translation and the kinds of choices translators have to make are very useful, too. I have thought since the beginning that the translation issue was far more critical and complex than many people believe.

The devil is in the details. A couple of things stand out; Catnip notes others in the analysis of the script given at the end. For example, Raffaele Sollecito talks about "heaps of blood" in the bathroom. If so, how could Amanda Knox have taken a shower or even entered the place without suspecting that something serious had occurred? Then there is a moment where, in the background, someone (we don't know who?) says "No, of course not," seemingly in response to a question like "did you touch anything?" This made me think about an obvious but enigmatic detail: how is it that Knox's fingerprints are absent if indeed she came back to the cottage that morning, walked around, perhaps did some laundry (although she and Charlie Wilkes disagree on this point), scooted into her room on a bathmat, got dressed (were her clothes on the floor and not in a drawer with handles she would have had to touch?) and so on?

I am still intrigued that Sollecito told the operator there had been a break-in but nothing was taken. How could he know? He had presumably not been in Meredith's room, because the door was locked and she was missing (as he told the operator). And how could AK have seen the blood in the bathroom and yet not noticed that Filomena's room had been ransacked? She walked past it to get to the larger bathroom, where she saw what Rudy had left behind in the toilet. It doesn't make sense. Perhaps the trial will make sense of it.

As for AK's smile: it may be inappropriate, but remember she is known for her quirks of this kind. And remember, her priest Scarabotti advised her to be natural in court and tell the truth. He said, if you feel like smiling, smile. So she did.
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Offline Fly by Night


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:15 pm   Post subject: Re: Big TV push   

Skeptical Bystander wrote:
FBN wrote:
Quote:
That's because they are in New York this morning, making the rounds on the major US network morning shows, singing the same old tired tune: "when the truth comes out all sane people will see she is 100% innocent and had nothing to do with any of this." Since the court proceedings will be open to the public, I guess all sane people will be able to make up their own minds on the matter and not have to rely on the incredibly vague family summations of the evidence against their daughter.


I think you're right. I found a two-minute video from this morning's Good Morning America, but I can't get it to open. It keeps bouncing to the next story, which is about how overbreeding has made British bulldogs fat and has compromised their health. So they must straighten up, slim down and fly right.

Does the other major network, um, would that be CBS, have a morning show too? It would be fairly easy to get from studio to studio in one morning.


Yes, indeed - they ran around from studio to studio and were on all 3 networks. Here's a link to the CBS version from the Early Show:
CBS Early Show, January 16, 2009
Simply astonishing - so incredibly astonishing what these people are saying. I find it very hard to believe they could have read through the 10,000-page evidence report with their lawyers and wind up saying these things they are saying. Listening to them, there doesn't even seem to be anything that needs to be explained away. At least they've stopped calling the Italians incompetent scoundrels. Haven't we repeatedly demonstrated that the tale of a brutal 14-hour interrogation is a flat out lie? The Seattle King5 morning news this morning reported that the court's decision to leave court proceedings open to the public was a major blow to the Knox defense. I can certainly understand why since the version of events that the Knox defense is presenting (as we understand it from the parents and lawyers statements) is so amazingly out of line with even the small amount of evidence we have seen so far. Since everything will be laid bare in court, I can't imagine the Knox defense holding up well at all but we'll soon see for ourselves, won't we.


Last edited by Fly by Night on Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:21 pm   Post subject: Knox to Testify?   

UW student Amanda Knox wants to testify at Italian murder trial





Associated Press - January 16, 2009 12:45 PM ET

PERUGIA, Italy (AP) - University of Washington student Amanda Knox wants to testify at her murder trial in Italy.

Lawyers for the 21-year-old from Seattle told the court today she'll say she was elsewhere with her boyfriend when her housemate was killed.

The trial began with lawyers talking about witnesses they plan to present in the trial that could last a year.

Prosecutors plan to call one man who has already been convicted in the case, Rudy Herman Guede (GWAY'-day). He had a fast-track trial last year and was sentenced to 30 years in prison.



KPAX


So, the defence plan to put Amanda on the stand?

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:25 pm   Post subject: daylife photos (2)   

Photos, photos, photos:

Amanda Knox Raffaele Sollecito
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:39 pm   Post subject:    

Nicki quoted from the Italian press:

Quote:
The city of Perugia is not showing much interest for the trial.In the afternoon, the audience have left the courtroom and went down from ten to three attendees. One thing is clear: Perugia is not frenzied, this can't be compared to the Erba murder trial.


This may be why Judge Heavey's well-reasoned request for a change of venue -- reiterated on last night's KONG report by Anne Bremner, flapping her arms for effect -- was denied. :lol:
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:49 pm   Post subject: Where was that knife?   

From Andrea Vogt's PI article (emphasis mine):

Quote:
The evidence includes footprints and fingerprints, mixed blood droplets in the bathroom that Kercher and Knox shared, and the alleged murder weapon -- a knife found in a shoebox in Sollecito's apartment that prosecutors say had Knox's DNA on the handle and Kercher's on the blade, despite having been cleaned with bleach.

Attorneys for Knox and Sollecito tried and largely failed to get much of the physical evidence thrown out. Instead, both sides are expected to call forensic experts to argue the validity of DNA samples and the handling of the evidence.



Last night, Popham reported that the knife had been found under Sollecito's bed. Here, Andrea Vogt reports what Nicki and others claimed when the shoebox controversy broke out: namely, that the knife was found in a shoebox and not placed there by police for safekeeping, as Frank has claimed. Having read (tried to read and will try and translate) Andrea's article in Panorama, I see that she is fluent in Italian. She also seems to be very thorough and cautious as a reporter. She checks her facts, it seems. So is it true that the knife was actually found in a shoebox?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:15 pm   Post subject: Panorama piece   

PANORAMA.IT article by Andrea Vogt.

I have translated Vogt's long article as best I could (and just now edited it to make it a little more readable). Feel free to improve on it or correct it. If I can find her email address, I may send it to the author for her feedback. There was one sentence I could not understand. It doesn't contain new material, except for a couple of interviews with local people, but it does talk about the the genesis and role of the Friends of Amanda, and about David Marriott's role.

MEREDITH'S MURDER DIVIDES SEATTLE
As the Meredith Kercher murder trial opens, in Amanda Knox’s hometown of Seattle the opinions of Seattleites are like the gray skies here: anything but clear. The friends and supporters of Amanda Knox, who have been quite vocal and media savvy, are deeply convinced of the innocence of Knox, whom they believe to be the victim in a case botched by a corrupt prosecutor and shoddy police work. Others, who maintain that the evidence against Knox is sufficient – indeed quite compelling – scoff at those who show blind support for Knox just because she’s the stereotypical nice American coed, white and pretty. And then there is the silent majority in Seattle, those who are waiting, watching and wondering what will happen to Amanda Knox.
“The real battle is just beginning,” says Randy Jackson, who works in online learning technology at the University of Washington, the Seattle school where Amanda was a student before she embarked on study abroad in Italy. “I think there is a small but determined contingent that has made a lot of noise and gotten a lot of attention. However, most people do not know the details and are just curious. Many are asking questions: What are the facts? What is the truth? The only thing to do now is wait; the truth is there somewhere.”

Based on the number of university researchers and census data, Seattle is the most literate big city in the United States: more than half of its residents have at least an undergraduate degree. And it may be that the case of Amanda Knox has a hold on people just because of the critical and academic spirit of the city. But as is often the case with local heroes, the reality is more complex. People are divided about whether their fellow citizen will get a fair shake in Perugia, which happens to be a sister city of Seattle. This small, affluent metropolis, which has always lived in the shadow of Boeing, is today prospering thanks to the high tech boom: Nintendo, Amazon.com and AT&T Wireless (among others) have their corporate offices here. And nearby Redmond is the worldwide headquarters for Microsoft.

Perugia is famous for its chocolate, Seattle for its coffee (it is the birthplace of coffee retailer Starbucks). And, like Perugia, behind the façade of the university town, Seattle boasts a lively alternative scene. Bars and taverns abound here: from the upscale lounges of Belltown to the college hangouts in the U District; from the gay-friendly bars on Capitol Hill to the country and western taverns in the outlying areas. Seattle is where musicians Jimi Hendrix and Quincy Jones spent their formative years. A few decades later, Pearl Jam and Nirvana’s Kurt Cobain founded the grunge movement here. Seattle is also where alter-globalist demonstrators clashed with the WTO in 1999.
But Amanda’s Seattle was neither affluent nor alternative. Young Knox played on the soccer team at Seattle Prep, the private Jesuit school where she excelled as a student before being admitted to the University of Washington, a peaceful English-style college campus with modern red brick structures, a statue of George Washington and a central square (Red Square) over which the cathedral-like Henry Suzzallo Library presides. Knox studied Italian, German and creative writing at the UW. And, as in high school, she got good grades. She also worked as a barista at a local coffee shop in the U District.

Like many students, she did not shy away from parties. When a party held at the U District house she was living in got too noisy and spilled over into the street (in July of 2007), Amanda came out to talk to the police, summoned by neighbors. “She got a citation for residential noise disturbance, because she was the only person there who was sober enough to talk to a police officer. And after that, she sent us all home,” recalls Madison Paxton, a college friend of Amanda’s. “Sure, she smoked a joint once in awhile and slept with a few guys. But who hasn’t?”

The young woman and other friends of Amanda are saving money to fly to Perugia and testify as character witnesses at Amanda’s trial. “I last saw her here in Seattle in mid-August of 2007. And the next time I am going to see her is in a courtroom in Italy, where we won’t even be able to talk,” says Andrew Seliber, 22, who has an undergraduate degree in psychology and lived in the same dorm as Amanda. Ben Parker, another friend of Amanda’s, has a degree in political science and wants to go to law school. When asked, he admits that he fears Amanda will not get a fair trial in Perugia, and thinks the case will go to the court of appeals. “Unfortunately, we are more hopeful for what will happen after the trial, when the case will finally leave Perugia.”

In spite of it all, Amanda’s friends say she still has a great deal of affection for the country in which she has been imprisoned for the past year. “She loves Italy and the Italians,” says Seliber, who adds nonetheless that “all Amanda wants to do now is come back home and lead a normal life—school, work, and outdoor recreation.” Seattle is a rainy city, but its climate is temperate because the city is nestled between the sea and the surrounding Cascade and Olympic mountain ranges, where young people love to spend their free time skiing, snowboarding, hiking, kayaking, rafting and horseback riding. Mount Rainer, a glacier-covered peak, looms over Seattle from the east. To the west lies Puget Sound and its many islands, some not too far from the Space Needle, the distinctive tower that symbolizes the television series Grey's Anatomy.

"I trusted Amanda with my life on a regular basis -- we were climbing partners for a good couple of months," said Andrew Cheung, also a UW student, in an interview with a local paper. “We went rock-climbing every day,” adds Seliber. “When she was arrested, it was like getting hit by a bus. I did not see it coming.” Now, all they can do is write letters to Amanda (who always replies) and go to the home of Edda Mellas, Amanda’s mother, every Thursday morning, which is when Amanda has permission to make a weekly call home.

Amanda’s mother and father (who divorced but remain on good terms) live just over a kilometer apart. Her father, Curt Knox, lives in Arbor Heights, a typical middle class neighborhood in West Seattle, near tennis courts and on a street with well-kept lawns. Her mother lives in a typical middle-class American house, but nearer to White Center, which is a rougher neighborhood, with many Asian grocery stores, pawn shops and payday loan outlets. The homes here are not as well-maintained and some have abandoned cars, eaten by rust, parked in front. When she left for Italy in the fall of 2007, Amanda left behind a solid network of family and friends, some of whom have tried to insert themselves into this judicial drama: they have founded Friends of Amanda, an association whose purpose is to raise funds and lobby on Amanda’s behalf. They hired Seattle defense attorney Anne Bremner, former deputy prosecutor turned court TV pundit, to bring the case to the attention of the media, both here and abroad (Bremner appeared on Porta à Porta).

Family friend Michael Heavey, a King County Superior Court Judge (his daughter was a classmate of Amanda’s), wrote to Senator Marie Cantwell (with whom he and a group had climbed Mount Rainer in 2007) and sent a petition, written on his official letterhead, to Italian politicians and members of the judiciary, asking for a change of venue. And shortly after she was arrested, Amanda Knox’s parents hired David Marriott, a public relations expert, to improve Amanda’s media image. Shortly thereafter, he launched a campaign to discredit the Italian authorities, mainly targeting prosecutor Giuliano Mignini. A year later, the Friends of Amanda organized a fundraiser at Holy Rosary, a Catholic church in West Seattle. More than 200 people showed up, and many donated the suggested amount of 50 dollars.

On the Amandadefensefund.org site, there are many testimonials from friends and members of the Knox family. Even her grandmother Elisabeth Huff, for example, weighs in against “the ugly lies being told about Amanda and her tragic and unjust persecution in Italy.” Before the murder, recalls the grandmother, her life revolved around her family, her friends, her work and school. “She has been an absolute lovely, well behaved and loving child. From preschool through her time at the University of Washington she was a gifted, serious and successful student. She loves sports, books, music and the outdoors.”

In the past year, the Friends of Amanda have waged their battle in the press, on the radio and on television: in recent days, David Marriott has been coordinating the interviews with Amanda’s parents on the three major US networks.

Kris Arneson is a single mother who is disappointed in the lack of in-depth coverage of the case here. She says "you hear from these people that "Seattle feels..." but I get enraged by that. No, not everyone here is convinced that Amanda Knox had nothing to do with what happened in Perugia.” In the meantime, Amanda’s parents have borne the substantial cost of staying near Perugia for long periods so that they can visit their daughter in prison. Then there is the cost of lawyers and forensic experts, as well as that of flying back and forth for a year between Italy and home. In Seattle, Amanda’s supporters are raising funds to offset these costs via a website and various initiatives: the family has amassed a huge debt and the trial has not yet begun.

In addition to raising thousands of dollars, they are seeking ways of presenting their theory of the murder wherever they can: that Rudy Guede (already sentenced to 30 years after a fast-track trial) alone killed Meredith Kercher after forcing his way into the cottage the two girls shared. Their arguments focus on the lack of strong DNA evidence and on the prosecutor charged with conducting the investigation, as well as on leaks to the press and the way in which the tabloids have sensationalized it—claiming that all of these factors have had a negative impact on public opinion. But above all there is what appears to be a rock-hard certainty: they simply cannot believe that Amanda is a killer.

ADDED: There's a video at the end of the article, in which it is noted that Sollecito has just gotten permission to do his coursework remotely (via Internet). Remember he was admitted to the University of Verona.


Last edited by Skeptical Bystander on Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Jools


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:10 pm   Post subject:    

Skep, in this article do they referred to Knox and Sollecito as the EXCUTIONERS OF MEREDITH?

'Les bourreaux de Meredith devant la cour d'assises de Pérouse'

http://tinyurl.com/8kqks2

Having been away from a computer nearly all day I see I have lots to read, you have all been very busy. My thanks to all and Catnip, your analysis of Sollecito's call to the police is interesting.

Back to reading now.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:16 pm   Post subject:    

Hey Jools, yeah that's kind of a French expression for killers. They could have said "présumés" (alleged). I'm translating it right now. Back at ya soon!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:44 pm   Post subject: Quick translation   

CRIME NEWS - This English student was found dead from stab wounds to her throat in November 2007. The trial of her murderers (translator's note: they said it folks, not me) begins this Friday...

Her name was Meredith Kercher, she was 22 years old. She had come to study in the lovely region of Umbria, in the heart of Italy, under the auspices of the Erasmus program. She was found dead in her flat, from wounds to her throat inflicted sometime during the night of November 1-2, 2007. The trial of her alleged killers, which began this Friday in Perugia, has unleashed a lot of passion and the English-speaking media.

The presiding judge rejected a request by Meredith's family that the trial be held in private, although he agreed to bar all cameras from the courtroom and said he might also bar members of the press at certain times during the trial if he deems it to be necessary.

The suspects are as young as the victim was. The American Amanda Knox (21), from Seattle, and her ex-boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito (24), are under indictment for voluntary murder and sexual assault.

First suspect sentenced to 30 years behind bars in late October

They appeared calm and relaxed on Friday. She's a cute blond with light-colored eyes, and he is a young man with brown hair and glasses. A third man, Rudy Guede, was accused on the same counts. An Ivory Coast native, he agreed to a fast-track trial and was sentenced to 30 years in prison last October 28.

According to the prosecution, it was Amanda (whose nickname Foxy Knoxy and Myspace page made headlines in all the English tabloids) who dealt the fatal blow when her flatmate, who was being held down by the two men, refused to take part in a sex game.

Meredith was on her knees, Rudy held her left arm down with his left hand while, with his right hand and perhaps with his penis, he tried to penetrate her. Sollecito was holding her down on the other side. Amanda was facing her and stabbed her in the throat with the kitchen knife, according to prosecutor Mignini on October 18 (Translator's note: the article says Paolo Micheli, but it is obviously a mistake since they give his title as prosecutor).

According to reports in the Italian press, the alleged murderers of Meredith (Translator's note: not Amanda, as the article says) had smoked cannabis.

Harmless lovebirds?

Lawyers for the defendents, who have consistently maintained their innocence, have denounced the prosecutor's version as false.

The prosecution's case is based on analysis of DNA found at the crime scene and on the knife that was discovered in the apartment of the young Italian (i.e. Raffaele). "During this trial, we will be talking about DNA and expert analysis," noted Giulia Buongiorno, a member of the Italian bar who is defending Sollecito and who has defended a number of politicians.

Buongiorno has tried to show that the idea of a sex game does not tally with reality: "two lovebirds living the first weeks of their love story".

Another lawyer for Sollecito, Luca Maori, claimed that "justice has already been done" with the conviction of Guede, stating that his client was the victim of a "tragic miscarriage of justice".

The family of Meredith is seeking a 30-million euro damage award. The price for the loss of their young daughter. And also the price of the autopsy of her calvary on the public alter, as press passes were handed out to nearly 150 journalists for the trial, which could last several months. The next session is scheduled for February 6.
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Offline nicki

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:54 pm   Post subject:    

One of defense arguments as reported here :http://tinyurl.com/73uwww is that there was no drugs-fueled party since no traces of empty glasses, music or drugs have been found. Bongiorno also said that since the once-upon-at time-happy couple had just met, the chances of wanting to organize an orgy are nihil.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:57 am   Post subject: Il faut qu'on s'organise   

Nicki wrote:

Quote:
One of defense arguments as reported here :http://tinyurl.com/73uwww is that there was no drugs-fueled party since no traces of empty glasses, music or drugs have been found. Bongiorno also said that since the once-upon-at time-happy couple had just met, the chances of wanting to organize an orgy are nihil.


I guess the idea of doing dishes as part of a clean-up never occurred to anyone.
And people generally leave their drugs behind after a party that ends in murder and mayhem?

As for the orgy argument, I simply don't understand. I usually "organize" orgies with people as soon as I meet them. Doesn't everyone? :lol:


Last edited by Skeptical Bystander on Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Jumpy


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:57 am   Post subject:    

The AmandaLoonies are threatening legal action over at Frank The Dump Squad's blog again. They must be having a tough day.
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