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XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -

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Offline elisa


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Oh, forgot to mention, any outcome cannot influence Knox' criminal record, because her felony verdict is final and US is not member of the contract with ECHR which actually can't throw out the Italian verdict anyway.
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Offline whatswisdom


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Italy verdict is meaningless, I hate to say. Knox + clown travel to Canada like U.S. celebs. What does it take to get a factual piece published in a mainstream U.S. newspaper of record, much less a mainstream TV channel! We have been preaching to the choir here, on .org & TJMK for way too long. The facts are clearly available for all to see, here, and especially on the Wiki site. Based on the past record I see more disappointment ahead with ECHR. How about we follow the money, because someone is bankrolling all this? A Trump connection was mentioned once upon a time.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Rumpole wrote:
Australian news site has a report on the Netflix doc, mostly about what Mignini says, nothing new really but here you are:


New documentary explores story behind Amanda Knox’s trial over housemate’s murder


Mignini became the subject of a barrage of attacks from the media and people in the community.

“During the trial there was a woman who said I was the devil. I can say that I’ve made mistakes, even things that I have had to confess,” Mignini told the documentary.

“But we are all between good and evil. It’s in our human nature.

“Amanda and Raffaele, if they are innocent I hope they’re able to forget the suffering they’ve endured.

“If they’re guilty, if earthly justice didn’t get to them, I hope they own their guilt because I know that life ends with a final trial, a trial with no appeals, no second chances and no revisions.”

Despite the documentary showing other interviews with a journalist, Amanda and Raffaele, you don’t get any more clear answers about the circumstances around Meredith’s death. That we may never know.

But the documentary shows you there is a human behind the headlines, and that human is Amanda Knox.


Thanks for this review, Rumpole. Helpful to have the actual dialogue; sitting in the theatre trying to write notes while watching wasn't easy :)

Meredith Kercher was a human being too. The human being who was left out of the headlines and forgotten. Except for those of us who made sure she wasn't.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

elisa wrote:
Hello Ergon, hello Fast Pete, maybe am still naive, but have 2 questions anyway: - isn't possible to send the final verdict of Cassazione plus Mignini's letter to TMK to Vanity and other Magazines and newspapers for publishing? Secondly I am afraid that Knox's felony doesn't appear in her criminal record in US, so also Canada couldn't know, because I suppose Italy didn't care of it and who else could put her verdict into her record? Would be here a way to do it that in her criminal record will be her felony an remark of her murder she got acquitted due to "insuff. evidence" finally? It is maybe difficult for many to see the truth if her criminal record is "white as snow"? I only know that criminal records also in US contain the outcomes of courts and felony and it is difficult to remove it for many years, probably felon never? I guess. Mignini could send the right papers to the appropriate authorities in Us or am I wrong?

Hi Elisa,

Peter, The Machine, and many others have been sending that information to hundreds of publications to set the record straight. That is why a group of us set up the Wiki, as a resource for press and public, and we get far more readers than Knox does. The authorities know about her felony conviction for slander but that's not considered a crime in the US so it can't have much of an impact on her life there. And we have replied, in hundreds of thousands of letters, posts and comments so our side dominates social media, not theirs.

Thanks to our efforts, the majority still doubts her and Sollecito and most think she was involved. When Knox was made fun of at American comedy shows "Saturday Night Live" and "Bill Maher", and comedian Cecilia Strong said this of her in front of President Obama and hundreds of correspondents and media moguls at the White House Press Correspondents Dinner Cecily Strong’s harshest burns
(See Video) Speaking to Netflix :) she said "Next time you do a serial do it for someone who really did it. Like Amanda Knox. There's DNA on the knife, you guys!"

the day before the acquittal, then, we have already won.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

whatswisdom wrote:
Italy verdict is meaningless, I hate to say. Knox + clown travel to Canada like U.S. celebs. What does it take to get a factual piece published in a mainstream U.S. newspaper of record, much less a mainstream TV channel! We have been preaching to the choir here, on .org & TJMK for way too long. The facts are clearly available for all to see, here, and especially on the Wiki site. Based on the past record I see more disappointment ahead with ECHR. How about we follow the money, because someone is bankrolling all this? A Trump connection was mentioned once upon a time.

Hi, whatswisdom. The US media has been bankrolling this all along, sorry. Not Knox, not Marriott. They bought the narrative of an innocent American unjustly accused abroad and in order to sell that, for cynical ratings and other reasons, they ignore all evidence to the contrary. Speaking to media sources I know how difficult it is to get an opposing view in when their bosses don't want to go against the current.

Andrea Vogt's documentary was well received in many countries. If you want to reach the US market, someone can always make a documentary or movie. In the meantime, we at PMF, TJMK and TMOMK have reached a greater audience than just those of us here.
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Offline elisa


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon, tnx for reply. Strange that an accusation an innocent uninvolved person with murder and rape has no judicial consequences in USA, hmm.
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Offline Rumpole


Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:46 pm

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
Rumpole wrote:
Australian news site has a report on the Netflix doc, mostly about what Mignini says, nothing new really but here you are:


New documentary explores story behind Amanda Knox’s trial over housemate’s murder


Mignini became the subject of a barrage of attacks from the media and people in the community.

“During the trial there was a woman who said I was the devil. I can say that I’ve made mistakes, even things that I have had to confess,” Mignini told the documentary.

“But we are all between good and evil. It’s in our human nature.

“Amanda and Raffaele, if they are innocent I hope they’re able to forget the suffering they’ve endured.

“If they’re guilty, if earthly justice didn’t get to them, I hope they own their guilt because I know that life ends with a final trial, a trial with no appeals, no second chances and no revisions.”

Despite the documentary showing other interviews with a journalist, Amanda and Raffaele, you don’t get any more clear answers about the circumstances around Meredith’s death. That we may never know.

But the documentary shows you there is a human behind the headlines, and that human is Amanda Knox.


Thanks for this review, Rumpole. Helpful to have the actual dialogue; sitting in the theatre trying to write notes while watching wasn't easy :)


Yes, I know, and I was actually wondering how this reviewer managed to get so much dialogue written down, maybe he used some kind of recorder? A dictaphone or a digital voice recorder or something like that?

Mostly OT from here onwards

I will probably try and see the film at some point somehow. I did manage to finally watch Angel face last spring, but I'm afraid I fell asleep on the sofa in the middle of it and then watched the second half that I'd missed the next day. It was kind of boring, to be honest. I'm planning to go see Snowden (premiere here Sept 30) and Ukraine on fire (if it is shown in Finnish cinemas) by Oliver Stone, noticed that Snowden had world premiere at the Toronto film festival - did you happen to see it? If you want to have a good laugh, I recommend reading what Julian Assange had to say about Guardian reporter Luke Harding's book on which the Snowden doc is based on - only loosely as Assange apparently told Oliver Stone not to trust Harding too much and to use other sources, it's kind of despicable that Harding and the Guardian earned $700,000 for the film rights (according to Sony document leak):

ASSANGE: HOW 'THE GUARDIAN' MILKED EDWARD SNOWDEN'S STORY

Julian Assange wrote:
The Snowden Files positions The Guardian as central to the Edward Snowden affair, elbowing out more significant players like Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras for Guardian stablemates, often with remarkably bad grace.

"Disputatious gay" Glenn Greenwald's distress at the U.K.'s detention of his husband, David Miranda, is described as "emotional" and "over-the-top."

My WikiLeaks colleague Sarah Harrison—who helped rescue Snowden from Hong Kong—is dismissed as a "would-be journalist."

I am referred to as the "self-styled editor of WikiLeaks." In other words, the editor of WikiLeaks.

This is about as subtle as Harding's withering asides get. You could use this kind of thing on anyone.

Flatulent Tributes

The book is full of flatulent tributes to The Guardian and its would-be journalists.

"[Guardian journalist Ewen] MacAskill had climbed the Matterhorn, Mont Blanc and the Jungfrau.

His calmness now stood him in good stead."

Self-styled Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger is introduced and reintroduced in nearly every chapter,

each time quoting the same hagiographic New Yorker profile as testimony to his "steely" composure and "radiant calm."


That this is Hollywood bait could not be more blatant.
---------------------

Notoriously, as the Moscow bureau chief for The Guardian, Harding used to ply his trade ripping off work

by other Moscow-based journalists before his plagiarism was pointed out

by The eXile's Mark Ames and Yasha Levine, from whom he had misappropriated entire paragraphs without alteration.

For this he was awarded "plagiarist of the year" by Private Eye in 2007.


But—disciplined by experience—he covers his tracks much more effectively here.

This book thereby avoids the charge of naked plagiarism.

Yet the conclusion cannot be resisted that this work is painfully derivative.

Snowden has never spoken to Harding. The two have never met.

The story is largely pieced together from more original work by James Risen, Glenn Greenwald,

Laura Poitras, Peter Maas, Janet Reitman, writers from the South China Morning Post and others.

The subtitle of the book, "The Inside Story of the World's Most Wanted Man," is therefore disingenuous.

If this is an inside story of Snowden, then anyone can write an inside story of anything.



Incidentally, Harding was here at the Helsinki book fair last year, obviously selling his book, and he mentioned how Assange "says very nasty things about me on twitter" (around 20.00 minutes mark on the video below). If anyone's interested, here's Harding being interviewed at the book fair (Snowden - maailman halutuin mies = Snowden - The world's most wanted man):

http://areena.yle.fi/1-3109191
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Offline hugo


Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:20 pm

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:

Thanks to our efforts, the majority still doubts her and Sollecito and most think she was involved. When Knox was made fun of at American comedy shows "Saturday Night Live" and "Bill Maher", and comedian Cecilia Strong said this of her in front of President Obama and hundreds of correspondents and media moguls at the White House Press Correspondents Dinner Cecily Strong’s harshest burns
(See Video) Speaking to Netflix :) she said "Next time you do a serial do it for someone who really did it. Like Amanda Knox. There's DNA on the knife, you guys!"

the day before the acquittal, then, we have already won.



This blogger greatly approved of Cecily Strong's routine because 'She killed it. She made the whole room be uncomfortable for about 20 minutes' and in particular noted:-

'Amanda Knox jokes are hilarious. I mean, she is probably guilty even though she wasn't found guilty.'

https://willikilliams.wordpress.com/201 ... ts-dinner/


I think Americans are quite generally wise to this, and they class Amanda Knox with OJ Simpson, as a defendant who played the right cards and skewed the process and got away with murder. The Netflix puff-doc won't help, because the 'slickness' of the thing makes it untrustworthy to a media-savvy audience, and because Knox is an alienating interviewee. Even a sympathetic reviewer called her 'unknowable' and the ability to make oneself cry on cue is seldom taken as a sign of sincerity. And the film is all about Knox, but the case isn't, and people do know that, and the near-exclusion of Meredith and her family from the film has been duly noted a number of times.
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Offline Rumpole


Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:46 pm

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

elisa wrote:
Ergon, tnx for reply. Strange that an accusation an innocent uninvolved person with murder and rape has no judicial consequences in USA, hmm.

I assume it could've been labelled as obstruction of justice in the US. If my memory serves me right, there was some discussion about this years ago on this board, I mean PMF before it split, I'm not sure if both sites have the old archives or is it only ORG that has them.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

We have all discussions from before that time, Rumpole. And we debated it here after as well. Try search.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:36 pm   Post subject: FALSELY ACCUSING OTHER PEOPLE OF CRIMES   

elisa wrote:
Ergon, tnx for reply. Strange that an accusation an innocent uninvolved person with murder and rape has no judicial consequences in USA, hmm.

The US has quite a history of this, Elisa 10 Egregious Cases of White People Falsely Accusing Black People of Committing Crimes
By Nick Chiles -
January 9, 2015

This article, by Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Nick Chiles had much to say:
Quote:
When the University of Michigan law school and the Center on Wrongful Convictions at the School of Law at Northwestern University in Chicago collaborated to create the National Registry of Exonerations, the researchers found that Blacks accounted for nearly half (47 percent) of all known exonerees in 1989, and whites made up nearly 39 percent of all known exonerees. But when they got to the year 2012, they found that the number of exonerations involving Blacks had risen to 57 percent. Of the 1,525 exonerations currently listed on the register as of Jan. 7, 2o15, a total of 715 involved Black people. Because of America’s tragic racial history, even today many of the exonerations involve white people wrongfully accusing Black people of committing crimes — and the accusations being enough to send them to jail for much of their lives. These are some of the most outrageous cases of Black people being falsely accused by whites...

... 1) Amanda Knox: When Knox was accused of murdering her roommate, Meredith Kercher, in Perugia, Italy, her first response was to implicate Diya “Patrick” Lumumba, a Congolese-born resident of Italy who owned a bar in Perugia named Le Chic where Knox worked part time. Lumumba was promptly arrested. Knox told Italian police in a written statement that she saw Lumumba enter Kercher’s room on the evening of Nov. 1, 2007. She later admitted that this version of events was made up, but she implied that it was made up under duress. Lumumba spent two weeks in an Italian jail before Knox’s story fell apart.
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Offline whatswisdom


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
The US media has been bankrolling this all along, sorry. Not Knox, not Marriott. They bought the narrative of an innocent American unjustly accused abroad and in order to sell that, for cynical ratings and other reasons, they ignore all evidence to the contrary. Speaking to media sources I know how difficult it is to get an opposing view in when their bosses don't want to go against the current.

Andrea Vogt's documentary was well received in many countries. If you want to reach the US market, someone can always make a documentary or movie. In the meantime, we at PMF, TJMK and TMOMK have reached a greater audience than just those of us here.
Point well taken, Ergon. My frustrations are at max. I've been trying to get journalists to look at stuff here with no success.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Rumpole wrote:
Yes, I know, and I was actually wondering how this reviewer managed to get so much dialogue written down, maybe he used some kind of recorder? A dictaphone or a digital voice recorder or something like that?


Very likely from the press kit given to news outlets, Rumpole. It wasn't voice over but subtitles, so I don't think a reviewer would be talking into the recorder in a theatre. Good thing, as we can hear Mignini speaking in Italian, and check the translation :)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Rumpole wrote:
I will probably try and see the film at some point somehow. I did manage to finally watch Angel face last spring, but I'm afraid I fell asleep on the sofa in the middle of it and then watched the second half that I'd missed the next day. It was kind of boring, to be honest. I'm planning to go see Snowden (premiere here Sept 30) and Ukraine on fire (if it is shown in Finnish cinemas) by Oliver Stone, noticed that Snowden had world premiere at the Toronto film festival - did you happen to see it? If you want to have a good laugh, I recommend reading what Julian Assange had to say about Guardian reporter Luke Harding's book on which the Snowden doc is based on - only loosely as Assange apparently told Oliver Stone not to trust Harding too much and to use other sources, it's kind of despicable that Harding and the Guardian earned $700,000 for the film rights (according to Sony document leak):
ASSANGE: HOW 'THE GUARDIAN' MILKED EDWARD SNOWDEN'S STORY
Julian Assange wrote:
The Snowden Files positions The Guardian as central to the Edward Snowden affair, elbowing out more significant players like Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras for Guardian stablemates, often with remarkably bad grace.
Incidentally, Harding was here at the Helsinki book fair last year, obviously selling his book, and he mentioned how Assange "says very nasty things about me on twitter" (around 20.00 minutes mark on the video below). If anyone's interested, here's Harding being interviewed at the book fair (Snowden - maailman halutuin mies = Snowden - The world's most wanted man):
http://areena.yle.fi/1-3109191

Hi Rumpole,

Didn't see any other movies. TIFF's a zoo and you end up paying twice as much to see a movie that's going to be released soon any way. I have a soft spot for whistleblowers like Assange and Snowden, and would never like us to forget those who pay a much harder price for it, like Chelsea Manning. (Now that's a documentary I would like to watch, so she can be remembered).

The Guardian's handling of the WikiLeaks and Snowden revelations have already been covered. Now even Greenwald is getting flak for him and Inquisitr founder Pierre Omidyar's handling of the documents but never mind, we already have Guccifer 2.0 holding Hillary Clinton and American politics feet to the fire :)
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

jamie wrote:
...
We need to be circumspect in supporting Marasca-Bruno on the one hand but then rejecting it on the other.

It's crap. ...




The circumspection finds support in one of those Latin maxims:

Quote:
“utile per inutile non vitiatur (the useful is not rendered invalid by the useless)” (1)


Also translated as:
"the useful is not vitiated, or rendered invalid, by the useless"(2)


The equation, ‘Bruno = useless’, is not inapt ( wh-) ), but that does not automatically guarantee that everything he typed is not useful. The point about Amanda repeatedly leaving her boss in the lurch as an accused murderer, as demonstration of not being derived from psychological police pressure, is an example.


(1) -- Wingadee Shire Council v Willis (1910) 11 CLR 123 at 140 per Barton J, handily cited in — Mirko Bagaric, Ross on Crime, 7th edition, (2016) [Lawbook Co, 2016], [28.1800] (p 1648). ISBN 9780455238821. The case was about an obviously erroneous date on a council rates notice: "I am clearly of opinion that the evident error in inserting 28th October does not make the notice void. Utile per inutile non vitiatur." – Wingadee Shire Council v Willis, High Court of Australia (15 Aug 1910), [1910] HCA 35 (Barton J).

(2) – Wright v Australian & New Zealand Banking Group Ltd, Federal Court of Australia (05 Apr 2001), [2001] FCA 386 at [16] (Beaumont J).
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Apologies if it has been posted already; I was away for the weekend. Review of "Amanda Knox" in The Daily Beast:

September 18, 2016

Making ‘Amanda Knox’: Tabloids, Trump, and the ‘Commodification of Tragedy’
By Jen Yamato

THE DAILY BEAST
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

When was AK interviewed for the film? Her hair is a couple of inches for the trailer segment with the tears. Just wondering if they had to add more tears in the final footage. Same soft pink shirt though .. I won't be watching it , but thanks Ergon for the review.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

malvern wrote:
When was AK interviewed for the film? Her hair is a couple of inches for the trailer segment with the tears. Just wondering if they had to add more tears in the final footage. Same soft pink shirt though .. I won't be watching it , but thanks Ergon for the review.


Hi malvern, AFAIK Knox was filmed over a period of a couple of years ending in 2016. Mignini, last year before the motivations report came out. Then he and Valter Biscotti saw the rough cut in May. We won't know what additions were made after until Netflix releases it.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:36 am   Post subject: MORE MORSE   

While the filmmakers professed to be neutral no one knew at the time of Stephen Morse's involvement as a producer. Turns out he'd been involved in the project almost six years (see attached). The Daily Beast article says they gained access to Amanda Knox because they promised to just examine the case. As a matter of fact, he had been present for the closing segments of the Hellmann appeal court hearings in 2011 and became very close to her family, the Moores, and Madison Paxton. Therefore his nasty tweets and blog posts about Mignini, Nadeau, and Vogt.

I see Netflix's promoting this film heavily in many markets, including a promo ad at the Emmy awards. Hopefully we can show how his bias is reflected in the finished documentary.


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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I became aware of Robert Morse several years ago seeing his tweets on twitter defending AK . I remembered him only because he shared the same name of a childhood friend of mine. Then he popped up again bragging about his involvement in this film. His deleted article about trolls was listed on Amanda's collection of media stories on her blog. Anyone who interviewed Madison as a main source and gushed about the defence lawyers back in 2011 can be considered unbiased? The poor fellow didn't erase past involvement quick enough before sharing the news on FB.
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

People who leave clues want to get caught, n'est-ce pas?

The thrill of being chased, probably.
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Speaking of Smart Alecks and other Dimbulbs not fully erasing their footprints,

Coincidentally this evening, came across this passage from Ann Radcliffe’s The Mysteries of Udolpho, in an Italian English-literature school text:


Quote:

“… the odd circumstance of the door having been fastened(1), during the preceding night, by some unknown hand. …”



1. fastened. Chiusa a chiave. [= ‘locked with a key’, ‘bolted’]


— Marina Spiazzi, Marina Tavella and Margaret Layton, Performer Heritage 1: From the Origins to the Romantic Age, (2016) [Zanichelli, 2016], p 254. ISBN 9788808737441




Attachment:
fastened.jpg

Ann Radcliffe, The Mysteries of Udolpho, 2nd ed 1794, vol 2, p 262
GoogleBooks




There must be a term for the act of offenders plagiarising plot points and literary material, or perhaps people who watch TV or scan mangas can’t think of anything better at the time of the offence. Not that drugs (and alcohol and unsupervised long weekends and low inhibitions) helps matters.

It's a bit like a psychological footprint. Constructing a false narrative requires narrative skills, and an example or template, or the idea of one. Recounting a lived event is much simpler: it just requires the ability of speech and/or writing (and memory).


===
Also, in the pre-Brexit days of yore, one of the sources for the ideas and incidents in The Tempest might have been “the Italian Commedia dell'arte, since Italian companies often travelled around England” (Performer Heritage 1, p 157). Interesting.


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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Catnip wrote:
Speaking of Smart Alecks and other Dimbulbs not fully erasing their footprints,

Coincidentally this evening, came across this passage from Ann Radcliffe’s The Mysteries of Udolpho, in an Italian English-literature school text:


Quote:

“… the odd circumstance of the door having been fastened(1), during the preceding night, by some unknown hand. …”



1. fastened. Chiusa a chiave. [= ‘locked with a key’, ‘bolted’]


— Marina Spiazzi, Marina Tavella and Margaret Layton, Performer Heritage 1: From the Origins to the Romantic Age, (2016) [Zanichelli, 2016], p 254. ISBN 9788808737441




Attachment:
fastened.jpg

Ann Radcliffe, The Mysteries of Udolpho, 2nd ed 1794, vol 2, p 262
GoogleBooks




There must be a term for the act of offenders plagiarising plot points and literary material, or perhaps people who watch TV or scan mangas can’t think of anything better at the time of the offence. Not that drugs (and alcohol and unsupervised long weekends and low inhibitions) helps matters.

It's a bit like a psychological footprint. Constructing a false narrative requires narrative skills, and an example or template, or the idea of one. Recounting a lived event is much simpler: it just requires the ability of speech and/or writing (and memory).


===
Also, in the pre-Brexit days of yore, one of the sources for the ideas and incidents in The Tempest might have been “the Italian Commedia dell'arte, since Italian companies often travelled around England” (Performer Heritage 1, p 157). Interesting.


-----
There you go again, Catnip. Didn't all three accused Sollecito (and Bongiorno), Knox, Guede, make literary references at one time or the other without understanding how much it revealed of their psychology?? Speaking of The Tempest and origins in Italian travelling shows, can we debate Shakespeare's authorship as well, Marlowe or Oxford, without getting infamous Kit Marlowe of twitter back trying to out people? (He shouldn't).

And in Commedia dell'arte, there's Knox and her obsession with masks. 'Mask of the Assassin', 'I am either psychotic or I am you' indeed? Combat of the Masks
Quote:
Lucrezia and Cornelio seek to be married despite Lucrezia's engagement to Doctor Baloardo. However, Captain Sangre y Fuego desires the girl for himself.

From La Commedia Inglese: English Plays of the Commedia dell'Arte

In the end, this crime was motivated by desire IMO, and what else is La Commedia about?

Knox might want to avoid discussion about masks though. Too closely connected with supernatural possession/obsession.


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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:53 pm   Post subject: KNOX DOCUMENTARY   

Already hearing back the moviemakers made subtle changes to translations of Mignini's words in the documentary to give false implications to what he said.
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Offline hugo


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
Speaking of The Tempest and origins in Italian travelling shows, can we debate Shakespeare's authorship as well, Marlowe or Oxford...



No, we can't, no. Except where Shakespeare borrowed lines from Marlowe, their writing is completely different. Compare Marlowe's Barabbas, the Jew of Malta, a stock 'Machevil' figure strongly related to the morality plays of previous times, with Shakespeare's Shylock, an ambiguous character with an inner life of his own. And Marlowe died at Deptford. And the Earl of Oxford wrote his own plays, under his own name, and they were performed by his own troupe, the Earl of Oxford's Men, and he died when almost half of Shakespeare's plays had still to be written.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

hugo wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Speaking of The Tempest and origins in Italian travelling shows, can we debate Shakespeare's authorship as well, Marlowe or Oxford...
No, we can't, no. Except where Shakespeare borrowed lines from Marlowe, their writing is completely different. Compare Marlowe's Barabbas, the Jew of Malta, a stock 'Machevil' figure strongly related to the morality plays of previous times, with Shakespeare's Shylock, an ambiguous character with an inner life of his own. And Marlowe died at Deptford. And the Earl of Oxford wrote his own plays, under his own name, and they were performed by his own troupe, the Earl of Oxford's Men, and he died when almost half of Shakespeare's plays had still to be written.

I know, and I was only teasing, hugo.

Though I note much of the 'debate' on Shakespeare's authorship seems driven by American snobbery over his 'humble' origins and vague connect the dot type thinking as to whether early English playbills meant this or that :)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:13 am   Post subject: MORE IMPORTANT SHIT FROM UNIMPORTANT ER, PEOPLE   

The owner of the Injustice In Perugia site manages to drag me into something wot Grahame Rhodes wrote elsewhere :)


Bruce Fischer is (still) one very confused person Etc., Etc.
Quote:
Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Post by Bruce Fischer » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:52 pm

This is what the dozen or so sick bastards on TJMK and Perugia Murder File support. I will give Ergon and Quennell 24 hours to respond to Graham Rhodes before commenting outside of this forum. Enough is enough. These people are sickening.

Here is the latest from TJMK: (etc, etc)

Bruce Fischer knows full well that I am not an owner, administrator, or moderator of the True Justice For Meredith Kercher website so am not responsible for any content published there.
Nor do I have to comment on anything Grahame Rhodes writes elsewhere. He isn't even a member of http://www.perugiamurderfile.net and never posted here I am aware of.

Perhaps El Chapo Bruce is pissed because of my reviews of the latest Knox documentary and trying to somehow tar me with that feeble minded guilt by association shtick of his. I do not know, don't care. Just don't involve me in your drama please.


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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

No doubt Ergon, for someone who claims its all over he does seem to stalk your activity. BTW I read a tweet from a Tiff movie goer who was uncomfortable with all the laughing during the Amandaknox film. She tweeted the directors seemed upset too after the film. Any idea what was so funny ? not to upset anyone further reading here ... just curious.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon I had a look for myself on IIP and there is Lyn Duncan once again talking trash about John Kercher. Same old site which upholds targeting the family.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

malvern wrote:
No doubt Ergon, for someone who claims its all over he does seem to stalk your activity. BTW I read a tweet from a Tiff movie goer who was uncomfortable with all the laughing during the Amandaknox film. She tweeted the directors seemed upset too after the film. Any idea what was so funny ? not to upset anyone further reading here ... just curious.


Hi, malvern. I wasn't at the premiere with the directors (and Knox plus one in the audience) only a later show, so don't know why they may have been upset. The audience did mostly laugh at Nick Pisa, and once, when Mignini said he enjoyed Sherlock Holmes movies.

My guess is there was some hostile questioning at the Q & A?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Really any questions be glad to answer.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:29 am   Post subject: MORE BLAME THE KERCHERS   

Thanks, malvern.
Annella Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:21 pm
Quote:
According to John Kercher Snr he relied on the TJMK site for all info about the case. One has to assume he still reads there. This is not the first time Rhodes has made threats of this kind and yet we have never seen or heard the Kercher family condemn these sick attacks. I have my own opinions about why that may be.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:36 am   Post subject: MORE BLAME THE KERCHERS   

The Energizer Bunny never quits: Dr. David Anderson
David Anderson, out to promote his and Nigel Scott's new book Three False Convictions, Many Lessons: The Psychopathology of Unjust Prosecutions has this to say:
Quote:
By this time there was an active US-based Facebook group supporting Amanda, and linking with them eventually put me in contact with her family members, especially her stepfather who had moved to Umbria. I was horrified to hear of the part the family of the murdered girl, through their lawyer Francesco Maresca, seemed to be playing in sustaining the prosecution theories. The Kercher family of course, whether they liked it or not, now had a substantial financial motive of at least €10 million in compensation awarded against the families of Amanda and Raffaele.

So was it Chris Mellas who convinced him the Kerchers were behind various internet posters like The Machine and why he tried to have Meredith Kercher's brother, John Jr. fired?
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Offline Rumpole


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

New trailer for the documentary:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRLt2xBpQbQ

(I don't know why, but I can never get the youtube code to function without removing the -s from https.)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

It's the Netflix doc that doesn't work here any ways, Rumpole. Who needs to see that face first thing in the morning? ;)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:07 pm   Post subject: REVIEW KNOX DOCUMENTARY (ITALIAN)   

Italian film magazine CINEMATOGRAPHE.IT~The Third Eye
Amanda Knox: le anticipazioni sul documentario Netflix
Di Virginia Campione -
12 settembre 2016
Translation:
Quote:
One of the most impressive, with pieces of unusual materials, comes near the beginning of the documentary: a vivid and disturbing movie of recent times of Kercher, smiling and Nice. It was filmed by the same Knox in the months before the death of Kercher, shot with a camera while the two roommates, multi-national recently spent time together. That image of Kercher resonates as as a counterweight to the graphic crime scene photos that circulated widely after his death, reminding viewers of human life lost in the center of the whole affair.

...The documentary Amanda Knox elicits sympathy towards the Knox herself revisiting the way the murder investigation has been shaped by two men probably used to perpetuate the image of the girl as perverse and sexually obsessive

...Nick Pisa, the reporter of the Daily Mail, and Italian Giuliano Mignini, the Prosecutor believes that the most plausible explanation for the murder of Kercher was a sex game gone wrong.

...The film, however, fills the gaps that no one had ever bothered to report.

That Knox and Sollecito, who knew each other from only a week and who lived a youthful dalliance, had been instructed to clear the House for investigators when they were photographed one in each other's arms, and they were consoling each other because they had just learned of the death of Kercher. The documentary also shows the first extensive interviews with forensic experts whose shoddy investigation analysis on DNA contributed to the release of Knox and Sollecito after four years in prison.

...Now, after the Italian courts have issued their second and final acquittal of Knox Mignini admits, perhaps for the first time, they could have had doubts about the guilt of the couple, after all. "If they're innocent," he says, "I hope they are able to forget their suffering."
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:34 pm   Post subject: Re: REVIEW KNOX DOCUMENTARY (ITALIAN)   

Ergon wrote:
...Translation:
Quote:
... had been instructed to clean the House for investigators when they were photographed one in each other's arms, ...


What does that mean: "had been instructed/directed/trained to clean the [h]ouse for the investigators"?

erano stati istruiti per pulire la casa per gli investigatori

A spellcheck autocorrect? Or an autotrans (French to Italian)? Or just some random phrase a trollster put in as a suggestion for a better trans? (The 'H' is a clue.) Or just a random phrase: there are scripts that insert/alter words on unprotected pages.

The only thing I can think of (that makes sense, a bit) is that the original sense was something like: they had been instructed/directed to leave the house (specifically, the things in it) untouched {because it was a crime scene}.

Alternatively, this idea about cleaning the house has been reported accurately, and the idea is conveyed in the film itself. In which case, 'barking' is not going to be an inappropriate one-word summary.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Rosa Milá has an interesting comment under Campione’s article: that the film is just the latest way to make money out of Meredith’s death, that the speculation and distortion of facts is not to ‘defend’ justice or two sobstories convicted unjustly, but to hypocritically line the pockets with cash.

When she tried to link to Micheli on the If-them-why-not-me? facebook page set up for Rudy, result: banned for life!


= = =
This comment-bleaching going on can be seen as an admission that there is an awareness of what the true and actual position is, and that position is not a money-making one.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Hi Catnip, that was machine translate, but I thought erano stati istruiti per pulire la casa per gli investigatori was clear the house for investigators. Corrected, thanks.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Pinocchio's nose gets longer whenever he tells a Netflx doc.
tou-)


Producers Enronising their public cache history with Tweet-bleach are slick.
stup-)

That makes sense, doesn't it? As a sentence, I mean; not as upstanding behaviour.
rul-)
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

In the documentary it was said they were observed kissing and consoling each other while waiting outside (voice over video).
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

pulire = to clean
Maybe the film says 'they had been swept out of the house by the investigators", and machine translate on the Italian side produced 'pulire'.

The Frenchified version of pulire produces 'nettoyer'. :)

Did an experiment: GoogleTrans puts the conjectured words above as: "erano stati spazzati fuori di casa dagli investigatori" (spazzare is what you do to something with a broom).

And "they had been told to clear out of the house by the investigators" produces "cancellare" (delete, cancel, erase) for 'clear out'. Which is fair enough for a computer age.

Someone is going to have to grit their teeth and listen to the narrator (or read the transcript/subtitles).
That will leave the mystery of what machine was used for the Italian.

(I say, it wouldn't be Bruce, would it? That would explain everything.)

----
ETA:
Ergon, Just saw your post above.

The Bruce Hypothesis is not ruled out.
Inserting assertions is a Bongiorno/Vecchiotti thing, so there are many candidates for the Bruce role.

Campione might have Bruced herself, if her English is A1/A2 level, or the laughing audience was too loud for her to hear clearly.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

See my review of the film over the weekend and next week :)
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Someone already listened to and compared the Mignini interview with subtitles in the trailer, Catnip. Deliberate mistranslation?
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Offline jamie


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
In the documentary it was said they were observed kissing and consoling each other while waiting outside (voice over video).



No doubt 'consoling each other' that they didn't get away to Gubbio as planned and now they have to stand around trying to look innocent.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
See my review of the film over the weekend and next week :)



Stocking up with popcorn.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:37 pm   Post subject: Re: EUROPEAN COURT SEARCH ENGINE   

Ergon wrote:
The European Court for Human Rights "has recently created a new search engine (“SOP” - State of Proceedings) which allows anyone to find out what stage has been reached in the proceedings concerning an application. It provides information on all cases that have been allocated to a judicial formation and are not anonymous. The information will be accessible two months after each procedural event.

The search engine exists in English, French, Finnish, Hungarian, Italian, Polish and Portuguese, but will shortly be available on the “Applicants” pages, in 36 official languages of the Council of Europe member States."

Search for a case
When you enter the Application number 76577/13 this is what I just got. It's updated regularly but I don't know if that's "two months after the event" so may be the fastest way to know when the Italian Dept. of Justice has responded is through us again ;)

ETA: I've been informed a response has been filed by State of Italy. Waiting to receive copies when available. Some time next week?



No sign of any update. Perhaps there will not be until the decision hearing 23 December.
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Offline Rumpole


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Is there supposed to be a decision hearing on this in December? Never heard of this before. Do you have a source you can link to?

Edit:
Or is it this date (filing the application to their systems?) you saw on the State of Proceedings Online page:

Application requiring a decision 23/12/2013
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:33 am   Post subject: Re: EUROPEAN COURT SEARCH ENGINE   

jamie wrote:
Ergon wrote:
The European Court for Human Rights "has recently created a new search engine (“SOP” - State of Proceedings) which allows anyone to find out what stage has been reached in the proceedings concerning an application. It provides information on all cases that have been allocated to a judicial formation and are not anonymous. The information will be accessible two months after each procedural event.

The search engine exists in English, French, Finnish, Hungarian, Italian, Polish and Portuguese, but will shortly be available on the “Applicants” pages, in 36 official languages of the Council of Europe member States."

Search for a case
When you enter the Application number 76577/13 this is what I just got. It's updated regularly but I don't know if that's "two months after the event" so may be the fastest way to know when the Italian Dept. of Justice has responded is through us again ;)

ETA: I've been informed a response has been filed by State of Italy. Waiting to receive copies when available. Some time next week?



No sign of any update. Perhaps there will not be until the decision hearing 23 December.


That's the date the application was filed, jamie: Application requiring a decision 23/12/2013
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Beat me to it again, Rumpole :)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:23 am   Post subject: UPDATES TO MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI   

Azoza has posted a great summary of additions to the crime case files and structure of the Master File list at the True Justice For Meredith Kercher Website

Great work by all the editors involved in collecting and collating the files!
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

On Stephen Robert Morse, well done Ergon!

This article seems to quote what you unearthed wayback on the paranoid crackpot - ooops - objective reporter attacking "trolls" and other reporters for not following his fanatical line.

http://heatst.com/world/questions-over- ... anda-knox/
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:08 pm   Post subject: HEAT STREET NETFLIX DOCUMENTARY   

Fast Pete wrote:
On Stephen Robert Morse, well done Ergon!

This article seems to quote what you unearthed wayback on the paranoid crackpot - ooops - objective reporter attacking "trolls" and other reporters for not following his fanatical line.

http://heatst.com/world/questions-over- ... anda-knox/

Thanks, Peter. The article quotes a Netflix spokesman saying Morse had no creative input in the documentary and 'just was given a honorary producer credit'.. Yet oddly enough, it views like another way to rehabilitate Amanda Knox and I will cover that in the next two posts after the weekend. For now, here are some of Morse's sources.
MORSE MEETS CBS 48 HRS CREW
Quote:
This incident immediately jogged my memory back to a similar one from 2011: I was taken out to dinner by the CBS news crew who were covering Amanda Knox’s trial in Italy. Who saddles up next to me at the table? None other than Peter Van Sant, the news anchor and 48 Hours host. Peter’s an ace: he’s won four Emmy Awards, three Edward R. Murrow Awards, two Overseas Press Club Awards, and more.
A dozen people at our table split a couple of bottles of red wine. And then, after a toast, I put my glass back down on the table, directly on the spot where, under the tablecloth, two tables of unequal heights met. Boom! The red wine spilled all over Peter.
Yet Peter Van Sant faced the red wine with humility. Despite his deeply stained white shirt, he insisted it wasn’t a big deal at all.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:56 pm   Post subject: NETFLIX DOCUMENTARY PRODUCER   

Netflix claim of Morse being given producer credit for introducing them to Knox's family: That's normally an 'associate producer' credit. (There is no such thing as a 'honorary producer'). Yet Morse is right up there with Mette Heide as co-producer, and she obtained funding. I have no way of knowing whether he funded the film as well, but do believe he influenced the film makers, as can be seen in the finished product.
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:28 pm   Post subject: Re: NETFLIX DOCUMENTARY PRODUCER   

Ergon wrote:
Netflix claim of Morse being given producer credit for introducing them to Knox's family: That's normally an 'associate producer' credit. (There is no such thing as a 'honorary producer'). Yet Morse is right up there with Mette Heide as co-producer, and she obtained funding. I have no way of knowing whether he funded the film as well, but do believe he influenced the film makers, as can be seen in the finished product.


I have a tweet dropping later this afternoon that shows that Netflix isn't being fully truthful on this....

Pat
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Post link to tweet here please, Pat?
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

This is the one I did this morning, where Morse attacks Nick Pisa in 2011:

https://twitter.com/pataz1/status/779320999691096064
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Netflix and Stephen Morse contradict each other in his role on the documentary:
https://aklwei.wordpress.com/2016/09/23 ... knox-film/
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Offline jamie


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

A reminder of Rule 54 2b, for which the European Court of Human Rights requires a response from Italy (no update yet).

Rule 54A1 – Joint examination of admissibility and merits
1. When giving notice of the application to the respondent Contracting Party pursuant to Rule 54
§ 2 (b), the Chamber may also decide to examine the admissibility and merits at the same time in
accordance with Article 29 § 1 of the Convention. The parties shall be invited to include in their
observations any submissions concerning just satisfaction and any proposals for a friendly
settlement. The conditions laid down in Rules 60 and 62 shall apply, mutatis mutandis. The Court
may, however, decide at any stage, if necessary, to take a separate decision on admissibility.
2. If no friendly settlement or other solution is reached and the Chamber is satisfied, in the light of
the parties’ arguments, that the case is admissible and ready for a determination on the merits, it
shall immediately adopt a judgment including the Chamber’s decision on admissibility, save in cases
where it decides to take such a decision separately
ADDENDUM TO RULE 54: 2. If the Committee is satisfied, in the light of the parties’ observations received pursuant
to Rule 54 § 2 (b), that the case falls to be examined in accordance with the procedure under
Article 28 § 4 (b) of the Convention, it shall, by a unanimous vote, adopt a judgment
including its decision on admissibility and, as appropriate, on just satisfaction.



Under Article 28, I can find no 4(b) or even 4(a), as it stops at 3. It appears to be a later add-on, as the same ADDENDUM, as above, goes on to say:

1. In accordance with Article 28 § 4 (a) of the Convention, the Committee may, by a
unanimous vote and at any stage of the proceedings, declare an application inadmissible or
strike it out of the Court’s list of cases where such a decision can be taken without further
examination.
2. If the Committee is satisfied, in the light of the parties’ observations received pursuant
to Rule 54 § 2 (b), that the case falls to be examined in accordance with the procedure under
Article 28 § 4 (b) of the Convention, it shall, by a unanimous vote, adopt a judgment
including its decision on admissibility and, as appropriate, on just satisfaction.

3. If the judge elected in respect of the High Contracting Party concerned is not a
member of the Committee, the Committee may at any stage of the proceedings before it, by a
unanimous vote, invite that judge to take the place of one of its members, having regard to all
relevant factors, including whether that Party has contested the application of the procedure
under Article 28 § 4 (b) of the Convention.
4. Decisions and judgments under Article 28 § 4 of the Convention shall be final.
5. The applicant, as well as the Contracting Parties concerned where these have
previously been involved in the application in accordance with the present Rules, shall be
informed of the decision of the Committee pursuant to Article 28 § 4 (a) of the Convention
by letter, unless the Committee decides otherwise.
6. If no decision or judgment is adopted by the Committee, the application shall be
forwarded to the Chamber constituted under Rule 52 § 2 to examine the case.
7. The provisions of Rules 79-81 shall apply, as appropriate, to judgments and decisions
adopted by a Committee.



This seems to be saying that if admissibility of the case is accepted, they have the power to at the same time come to a judgment.

So it could all happen very quickly.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:23 am   Post subject: BIASED DOCUMENTARIAN   

Great find by Pat Blackhurst Tweets
Seems our 'neutral' filmmaker was advocating for Knox in 2011, the same year his friend Stephen Morse was in Perugia filing his biased reports. He's already admitted he had been working with Morse since 2011.


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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

So, if you go by what Morse and Blackhurst are saying, they started working together 5.5 to 6 years ago. This puts the start of their collaboration in either fall of 2010 or spring of 2011. It appears that both were in Perugia italy during the trials in October of 2011, when Morse was tweeting during the proceedings. In one of Morse's post he claims he happened upon the case while travelling in italy... in another he claims he flew there specifically as an investigative journalist. Morse may be talking about two separate events... but its interesting to see him try to mask his involvement in the case and why he was in italy.
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

OT

Some Carabinieri jokes:
:)

Quote:
“Guys, my wife's pregnant' says an officer proudly. After a brief pause, a voice pipes up, 'Have you got a suspect in mind?'”

— Roberto Bonistalli,
Ultime Barzellette sui Carabinieri, (2001)
[Giunti Demetra, 2006]
(The Latest Carabinieri Jokes), p 84.
ISBN 9788844031985



Most of them are derision-style, of the sort that used to be applied to blondes, lawyers, elephants, and so on. (And the Mob are not going to be slow in co-opting such feeling.)

And there is the absurdist humour beloved of kindergarteners.

  • “How long does it take a Carabinieri officer to write 'Happy Birthday' on a birthday cake? Three hours and one minute: one minute to write it and three hours to clean the typewriter.” (pp 64-65)
  • “Who invented the carbine? A Carabinieri officer, obviously. His marshall had asked him, 'Lengthen this pistol for me, please.'” (p 64)
  • Why do Carabinieri officers, from time to time, overturn their patrol cars? To empty the ashtray. (p 6)
  • The marshall to the brigadier: “Order some round folders.” “Why?” “So we can store the circulars.” (p 78)
  • How many Carabinieri officers does it take to change a light bulb? It doesn’t matter. By the time they’ve worked it out, it’s daytime. (p 78)


There are also word-plays, which have a fond place in Italian:

(p 71)
“Marshall Totonno goes to the barracks cafeteria. He asks the private, 'Hey, Cocozzo,

Qual è il passato di pomodoro?

{Meaning: Which one's the tomato paste?

Which can also be read and heard as:
'What's the past tense of tomato?'

To which the private replies:}

I tomatoed (io pomodorai),
you tomatoed (tu pomodorasti),
he tomatoed (egli pomodorò) …



(p 26)
Two Carabinieri:
“I enrolled at the Conservatorium of Music and now I know how to

fare le scale
{(=do my scales)
Also: make ladders}

“Sorry, but wouldn’t it have been better to learn bricklaying?”
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Springtime in the southern hemisphere.

Attachment:
marguerites2.jpg


Attachment:
bottlebrush2.jpg


Attachment:
jasmine2.jpg


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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:37 am   Post subject: Re: BIASED DOCUMENTARIAN   

Ergon wrote:
Great find by Pat Blackhurst Tweets
Seems our 'neutral' filmmaker was advocating for Knox in 2011, the same year his friend Stephen Morse was in Perugia filing his biased reports. He's already admitted he had been working with Morse since 2011.


Why all the deception? Those doing damage control at IIP need to admit Mignigni's posted rebuttal on TJMK is real, why wouldn't it be ? The early collaboration of filmmakers and AK supporters may be the next reveal? It looks like you are to blame Ergon once again and Bruce is not happy.. Its always going to be risky to shine a spotlight on the case , running the risk of people actually reading the SC final report.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:24 pm   Post subject: Re: BIASED DOCUMENTARIAN   

malvern wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Great find by Pat Blackhurst Tweets
Seems our 'neutral' filmmaker was advocating for Knox in 2011, the same year his friend Stephen Morse was in Perugia filing his biased reports. He's already admitted he had been working with Morse since 2011.


Why all the deception? Those doing damage control at IIP need to admit Mignigni's posted rebuttal on TJMK is real, why wouldn't it be ? The early collaboration of filmmakers and AK supporters may be the next reveal? It looks like you are to blame Ergon once again and Bruce is not happy.. Its always going to be risky to shine a spotlight on the case , running the risk of people actually reading the SC final report.

Their critique of the documentary, malvern, once you delete 90% of the content which seems to be about Peter Quennell or me sun-) is
a) how wonderful Knox is, la_)
and,
b) so the producer was biased. So what? So was Andrea Vogt! wa-))

ahem. My point is directors Brian McGinn and Rod Blackhurst have been going around saying how neutral they were towards both sides. Then it turns out they had been advocating for Knox's innocence since 2011. That's their right, of course, and to make their film any way they like. But why was their producer running around deleting so many of his tweets and blog posts?

Not so neutral after all wh-)
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Offline Rumpole


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Location: Old Bailey

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Guardian comes out once again in full support of Knox, this time in the dvd&film reviews section. Charlie Lyne, whoever that is, has posted this review:

Judge not: how Netflix produced the definitive Amanda Knox film

Some tidbits:

"With the benefit of a decade of hindsight, Netflix’s more polished overview Amanda Knox approaches the story with a clear head, a clear conscience and – like 90% of contemporary documentaries – an abundance of crystal-clear drone camerawork. Interviewing most of the key players at length, the film lays the blame for Knox’s false conviction at the twin doors of media hype and moral self-righteousness. Knox, it seems, spent four years in prison largely for a failure to grieve in quite the way that various middle-aged men would have liked."

Mignini is according to Lyne "a pound-shop Poirot, he bloviates on his supposed powers of intuition, despite the fact that he was disciplined last year by Italy’s council of magistrates for botching the case."

Was he disciplined?

And Nick Pisa, of course, is the other bad person in the film according to this review as well, the film is apparently cut so that the "villains" are easy to spot.

---
As for Guardian, I've known for a long time that there is something off about it with regard to its generally leftist leaning but couldn't quite pinpoint what but when I read the following article last week, I understood what I'd seen without being able to formulate it as well as this former Guardian contributor does in this 2011 article:

A Thought Police for the Internet Age: The Dangerous Cult of the Guardian

Edit: corrected typos.


Last edited by Rumpole on Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:01 pm   Post subject: GUARDIAN REVIEW   

Thanks for the Guardian link, Rumpole. I see the following comment replying to the critic:
Quote:
BeetrootSalad
"Chief prosecutor Giuliano Mignini still insists he had it right all along, citing as evidence of Knox’s guilt the fact that Kercher’s killer covered her body with a sheet, something Mignini maintains “a man would never think to do".

So he declared her guilty based on his own sexism. Nice.

My reply to Charlie Lyne (let's see if its published)
Quote:
The prosecutor Giuliano Mignini said “a *unknown* man would never think to do” (place the blanket over Meredith Kercher's body). Somehow this wasn't accurately reflected in the translated subtitle. I guess the filmmakers wanted to make a point about sexism?

The context, repeated several times, was that Kercher had been murdered by someone who knew her.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:10 pm   Post subject: MIGNINI SANCTION   

But yes, Rumpole, Mignini was censured by the CSM December 04, 2015, for failing to provide Raffaele Sollecito with a lawyer when requested on November 06 2007.
La Gazetta Digitale
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Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Posts: 503

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:11 pm   Post subject: Re: BIASED DOCUMENTARIAN   

Ergon wrote:
malvern wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Great find by Pat Blackhurst Tweets
Seems our 'neutral' filmmaker was advocating for Knox in 2011, the same year his friend Stephen Morse was in Perugia filing his biased reports. He's already admitted he had been working with Morse since 2011.


Why all the deception? Those doing damage control at IIP need to admit Mignigni's posted rebuttal on TJMK is real, why wouldn't it be ? The early collaboration of filmmakers and AK supporters may be the next reveal? It looks like you are to blame Ergon once again and Bruce is not happy.. Its always going to be risky to shine a spotlight on the case , running the risk of people actually reading the SC final report.

Their critique of the documentary, malvern, once you delete 90% of the content which seems to be about Peter Quennell or me sun-) is
a) how wonderful Knox is, la_)
and,
b) so the producer was biased. So what? So was Andrea Vogt! wa-))

ahem. My point is directors Brian Ginn and Rod Blackhurst have been going around saying how neutral they were towards both sides. Then it turns out they had been advocating for Knox's innocence since 2011. That's their right, of course, and to make their film any way they like. But why was their producer running around deleting so many of his tweets and blog posts?

Not so neutral after all wh-)


Exactly, no one likes to be played for a fool. It would seem the first line of defense when Morse's previous activity was found was to delete it. I found an early Morse article listed in Amanda's blog media collection only to find it disappeared later. Then we have the filmmakers downplaying his role to some guy who introduced them to characters in Perugia , not a producer really only a guest ?
Now we learn Rod was tweeting hearts at the 2011 acquittal. Important to be honest from the start about your opinion , which is always a legitimate choice. Its the hidden agenda inquiring minds have a problem with.
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Offline Rumpole


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Not sure if this review by John DeFore in the Hollywood Reporter has already been posted, he comes across as yet another AK cheerleader:

'Amanda Knox': Film Review | TIFF 2016

------------

Quite a few people are of the opinion that most documentaries are biased, that they often have a certain viewpoint that they want to advance.

This was at least concluded in a discussion after a documentary film (on our state television) that was labelled, half-jokingly, as Russian propaganda before the viewing, apparently so that us, the half-witted, stupid audience, would not be brainwashed into believing anything that was said (such are the times we are living now, I've never encountered anything like this propaganda statement before in my life on our television). It was a typical political doc of the type where great statesmen are shown statesmanlike, making carefully thought-out statements and analysis of world events and showing their own doings in positive light. As was pointed out in the discussion, the Americans, the British and Michael Moore and so on, make similar documentaries. Their films are, however, not labelled as propaganda on our television. (It was this film, if anyone's interested, that was shown: World Order: Russian documentary on US hegemony)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:34 pm   Post subject: GUARDIAN REVIEW   

Another comment I posted in the Guardian Film review:

"I saw the documentary at TIFF, the Toronto International Film Festival. It's professionally done, with great production values.

It also is biased and misleading, thus leading to a betrayal of its audience. First, it mistranslates prosecutor Mignini's words, spoken in the Italian. It also omits the context of his (edited) statements. For example, where he says "if they are innocent" as if that was his own thought. That was in response to a question posed by the filmmakers, which was edited out.

He also says he enjoys Sherlock Holmes, then that is used to imply Knox was arrested on the basis of his hunch. She actually was arrested when her co-accused Raffaele Sollecito withdrew her alibi and said she'd gone out that night. There are many more instances that point to bias.

Turns out its producer, Stephen Robert Morse, had been involved in the case since 2011, having written many abusive texts and blogs about Mignini and other journalists involved in the case. He deleted many of them once his involvement in the production came out though as he should know, nothing gets lost on the internet. Still, this points to the deception inherent in the production..

But ultimately, the film fails by not relating why Knox had been acquitted. Not because there was no evidence, but, because the evidence was deemed to be insufficient, helped along by defense specialists who managed to cast doubt on the DNA, even though the circumstantial evidence was quite substantial. Indeed, the Supreme Court had ruled if mistakes were not made in the forensic collection, they might well have found Knox guilty. They also concurred Knox was there that night, so, thus she lied. As she herself introduces the argument, either she is innocent, or she is the worst kind of psychopath a wolf in sheep's clothing.

In the end, it is the film that is "a pop-psychological approach" to the criminal investigation."
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

That's an excellent response!
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Offline hugo


Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:20 pm

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Rumpole wrote:
Guardian comes out once again in full support of Knox, this time in the dvd&film reviews section. Charlie Lyne, whoever that is, has posted this review:


He's this guy, age 25 going on 15:

https://sheffdocfest.com/speakers/7325

(I do not know why he is wearing a tiara.)

He has 'produced' and 'directed' a couple of films from his bedroom. The films tend to consist of clips from existing films, downloaded from his bedroom, with funding for rights fees and British Board of Film Classification clearance raised on Kickstarter or GoFundMe, from his bedroom. However, his 2016 magnum opus, Paint Drying, consists of original footage of white paint apparently drying on a brick wall for 607 minutes. This was made, and submitted to the BBFC with Kickstarter funding (raised on his computer, from his bedroom), as a protest against the BBFC's distinctly modest fees, which in his childish way he considers 'unfair' to juvenile pseudo-filmmakers who operate from their bedrooms. The BBFC dutifully watched it to make sure he hadn't slipped any clips of anything nasty into it and gave it a U certificate for general exhibition.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/movie-n ... rtificate/

The reason reviewers like Lyne go soft on the Knox Netflix puff-piece is not that they are Knox groupies but that they are idiots who are naive about the way such films are made, and particularly naive about the way that TV interviewers manipulate interviews, even though there is quite a literature about this. Documentary makers work to an existing script, and they want the interviewee to illustrate that script, so they smarm and flatter the interviewee and make out that they're interested in the interviewee's opinions, but they aren't. They'll simply junk most of what the interviewee says. The bits they use are where they put leading questions, essentially dictating the response, and of course they edit out their own prompts and then edit the response to make it look as if it means something the interviewee never intended. (In this case, for instance, Mignini was prompted as to what he would say to people who had been wrongly convicted. He wasn't talking about Knox and Sollecito because he doesn't believe for one moment that they were wrongly convicted, but that's how Blackhurst and McGinn present it according to their pre-established script.)
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Producer Stephen Morse confronted Nick Pisa in Perugia in 2011; calls him a "shit journalist."

-Pat
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Offline Rumpole


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

pataz1 wrote:
That's an excellent response!


Of course it was. And that's why the Guardian has duly removed it.

Out of over 100 comments, they've removed about 40. And from what I saw earlier today, the conversation was mostly very civil.

They seem to have removed all comments concerning actual evidence (other than the "discredited" DNA evidence) against AK and RS, but surprise surprise, not those discussing evidence against Guede. It is as if AK was moderating the comments section herself. Quite disappointing how the Guardian promotes free speech.
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Offline Rumpole


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Hugo, that was actually quite funny - I was laughing by the second time "from his bedroom" was mentioned. And here I was thinking the review was done by a 50+ drooling AK supporter and it turns out the reviewer is barely out of his nappies!
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:03 pm   Post subject: DECEPTIVE EDITING DOCUMENTARIES   

The issue of selective editing in documentaries discussed here.

Another Katie Couric Documentary Is Under Fire for Deceptive Editing
Quote:
By Andrew Stiles | 3:34 pm, June 8, 2016

Former celebrity news anchor Katie Couric has been busted again for deceptive editing in a documentary.

The Washington Free Beacon reports that the 2014 anti-obesity documentary Fed Up, produced by Couric and her wealthy Hamptons investor pals, includes a number of instances of deceptive editing similar to the one uncovered in her latest film, the anti-gun documentary Under The Gun, which made a group of gun rights activists appear unable to answer a question that they in fact did answer immediately in the actual interview.

Fed Up, which was also directed by embattled filmmaker Stephanie Soechtig — who issued a dismissive apology for the editing in Under The Gun — examined the relationship between the food industry and the obesity epidemic in America.

The film includes interviews with two individuals who now say their statements were misleadingly edited. One of the individuals, Dr. David Allison, director of the Nutrition Obesity Research Center, told the Free Beacon that the film included an awkward moment when he paused to collect his thoughts, after being told by Couric it would be okay for him to do so.

What she did to me is antithetical to not only just human decency and civility but it is antithetical to the spirit of science and democratic dialogue,” Allison told the Free Beacon.

and
How Katie Couric’s Multi-Millionaire Hamptons Friends Tripped Her Up
Quote:
By Andrew Stiles | 11:02 am, June 6, 2016

Katie “Cougar” Couric is a big fan of Michael Walrath.

“He’s superhot,” Katie Couric whispered to a reporter who was working on a fawning profile of the investment guru and male socialite for the New York Times style section in 2014. At the time, Walrath was building a home in East Hampton, a favorite vacation venue for Manhattan elites where Couric, a former celebrity, is still a household name.

Seven years ago, Walrath sold his startup digital marketing firm to Yahoo, Couric’s current employer, for nearly $1 billion. Walrath has funded a number of new ventures since then. In 2008 he and his wife Michelle (also a socialite) founded “socially conscious” Atlas Films with his longtime friend, director Stephanie Soechtig, the creative visionary behind Under The Gun. This, of course, is the anti-gun documentary that has landed Couric in hot water for deceptive editing.

Couric recently threw Soechtig under the bus by claiming to have had concerns with the film’s editing that she failed to raise “more vigorously.”
...
Perhaps Couric, who nominally identifies as a journalist, should have known better than to get into bed with a bunch of East Coast elites who are bored and even richer than she is and have nothing better to do than to try and “make a difference” in the world with their money and their “artistic pauses” that make gun-rights activists look like idiots.

On the other hand, partying in the Hamptons while lecturing the little people can be so much fun.


This is my issue with the Netflix documentary "Amanda Knox". It is deceptive because the audience does not have the evidence on the case to compare it with what the film makers choose to show.

Maybe I shouldn't be sympathetic to Nick Pisa because the sins of the Daily Mail and Sun type of reporting, but the way they made him a cartoon villain was so obvious, it qualifies as propaganda, and I don't like it. He wrote a story about sex and drugs gone wrong and that's his job, even though we might not agree with that. It might even be said what he wrote was quite close to the truth, and making his and the media's reporting responsible for Knox and Sollecito's conviction a trope already much used by Knox partisans, which the film makers have now been identified as being.

The film's treatment of Mignini is the same, though he comes across better than Pisa. But it is the way this was made and presented that I find biased and deceptive.

Maybe I'm an idealist, but I found it "antithetical to not only just human decency and civility but it is antithetical to the democratic dialogue".

That is what a good documentary does. It fosters 'democratic dialogue', not divisiveness.
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

“Aspiring Pravda substitute, The Guardian, misfires again”

If they delete comments, and re-write history like their exemplar Stalin, how are they going to attract readers?

Perhaps they live in a self-imposed bubble, where the Guardian Wall will never collapse.
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Così gli parla il rigido romito
So spake unto him the stern hermit.




Have been reading Codispoti’s testimony, especially the part where Bongiorno is trying to ask him questions.

I don’t know why I find Bongiorno’s cross-examination technique so grating and annoying.

Her style is abrasive and disjointed. Fair enough.

Her focus on ultimately irrelevant minutiae – well, fair enough too.

Her assumptions about what the witness knows leads to a lot of time wasting, but that’s her choice.

Her role-playing and asides to the audience, is probably what she considers to be flair.

Her reasoning method is nitpicking combined with overlooking the meaning of what the witness is saying. Not very professional or experienced, but that’s OK, since many advocates find they need to improve their skills. During the first trial, Massei was eventually explaining to her a lot of the implications of what the witnesses were saying, as if she were in kindergarten.

I think it’s her continual application of the fallacy of the transposed middle that is the cause of the annoyance – a misrepresentation of what logic and reasoning is.

That inflexibility has hindered her, and, by extension, the assistance she could have given Raffaele, and by further extension, Amanda.

It's as if occupying Andreotti's old office like a hermit has made her severe and austere. Good for a politician of sorts, not so much for a defence advocate. Imposing one's will, more than persuading others.




===
ETA:
From the Nitpickers' Association club meeting:


Quote:
Prosecutor (Comodi): I do not oppose the impugned material, in terms of this photo which shows not a subject who is entering into Romanelli’s room but is someone who remains hanging by the tips of his fingers from the window sill and doesn’t ever advance from that position.

MAORI: this photo has been taken during the course of the crime scene inspection done on 19th August in 2007 and was attached to the files I think it was 27 February we filed it.


2007 is obviously incorrect: a slip of the tongue (if not a typing error in the transcription, or a listening error).



Quote:
MAORI: Had you measured the distance between the window shutter and the retaining wall.

WITNESS (Codispoti): no.

MAORI: I’ll tell you it’s about two metres and ninety three metres [meaning 2.93 metres], it seems impossible to you to throw a four metre rock, from here to there.


Another slip of the tongue (or typo): it was Maori who informed Codispoti that the rock in the shopping bag under the chair in Filomena's room weighed 3.99 kg.

Anyone throwing a 4-metre rock would have been world news.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Catnip wrote:
“Aspiring Pravda substitute, The Guardian, misfires again”

If they delete comments, and re-write history like their exemplar Stalin, how are they going to attract readers?

Perhaps they live in a self-imposed bubble, where the Guardian Wall will never collapse.


The same pedites puerilis who used to flag every dissenting opinion on Knox at Huffington Post seem to have followed to the Guardian, Catnip. Wrecked the comments section there too, and that was in 2010, LOL.

Re Codispoti, I assume the nitpicking brigade is going on about the Wiki? Quod certus nimis diligenter, I'll look into it.

BTW, one of us held the rock in our hands. It was a 4 kg rock, it was a 4 meter throw nw)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:57 pm   Post subject: THE ROCK'S LIMESTONE, NOT IRON PYRITE   

Apropos of nothing, but here, since I don't want to argue moon landings, evolution or homeopathy there:
LIMESTONE ROCK
Ergon posted Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:26 am
Quote:
You're right, RoseMontag, that does look like limestone, which coincidentally has a higher density than concrete. http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_materials.htm

Limestone, solid 2611 kg/m3


Given the approx. dimensions 20 x 15 x 8-12 cm (one end tapered) it looks like the weight quoted by Candace Dempsey for The Rock, 8.8 lbs is accurate.

Though as I recall, the argument, already covered here (with nifty graphics) was not whether it could be thrown that distance by Guede, but why, given mass, velocity, distance, it landed to the side instead of down the middle of the room. It ricocheted off the inner scuri I was told by the FOA (back when they were barely tolerated here).

Sorry, but boulders don't bounce la-)


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Offline hugo


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The broken glass lying on the strewn clothes and laptop computer, where they were posed below the window (whereas Filomena had left the clothes in the cupboards and the computer in its carry-bag propped against the leg of the bed), means that the room was tossed before the window was broken and therefore the break-in was faked. (And only one person on Earth had a motive to fake the break-in, and that was the only keyholder with no independent alibi -- Amanda Knox. And that's the whole case right there.) The unnecessarily large rock, the weight of an army rifle, was chosen as a visual prop by people who didn't really know anything about break-ins.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Hello everybody,

some time ago, Sollecito posted on his FB the link to this article by Vincenzo Giglio with this complimentary comment:

Raffaele Sollecito wrote:
What can I say? ... I'm pleasantly impressed with the meticulous and detailed work. Congratulations!


So I skimmed through its Google translation and tried to improve it here and there to make it more readable, but didn't have enough time to do a thorough job of it, i.e., didn't have the time to compare passages quoted in the article with original documents, but everyone knows them and can easily find them in this forum's archives. The end product is attached below. Warning: the opus is very long (14 1/4 pages).

The author doesn't uncover anything new or reveal anything important; he just recounts all the "sins" on the part of the police, prosecutors and judges who have convicted Knox and Sollecito. The defense teams of the two accused, by contrast, are considered to be blameless and (almost) free of any wrongdoing. That they, too, have given numerous interviews, appeared on TV (in Porta a Porta, Quarto Grado, and other talk shows) and tried to influence public opinion, doesn't count. Hmmm.

The author is very 'discreet' and uses initials for all protagonists (except Knox and Sollecito) to conceal their real names, but of course they are easily identifiable. ;)

Anyway, take a look at it if you want to read something on a Sunday afternoon.

Words, just words: Remarks on the Murder of Meredith Kercher
By Dott. Vincenzo Giglio

Attachment:
Remarks on the murder of Meredith Kercher by Dott. Vincenzo Giglio - Copy (2).doc


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Offline Hennesy


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The biggest evidence of this rock being a fraud was perhaps the fact that there was no broken glass outside the window, just a few pieces on the surface below the window, but nothing outside on the floor. It is obvious that statistically speaking this is close to impossible.

Another good point raised by Codispoti is the fact that on the shutters there were signs of this rock hitting from inside.

The rock itself could have been moved after the intruder enters through he window so this alone would have not been enough, but in this fake break-in, there are plenty of impossible things that had to happen at the same time...
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Offline olleosnep


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The glass damage shown in the Pasquali rock-throwing video from the Wiki:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/d ... rowing.mp4

is actually more damning. The first lob successfully breaks only the lower part of the glass in the window, but it is lobbed from too close a position, not at all reflective of the car park terrace location. You can see the hand at one point lobbing the stone.

The second and third lobs seem to be done at a better velocity, reflecting the 3-4 meter distance from the terrace. And in both times the entire glass pane is shattered, not just the lower part.

In other words, the glass damage at just the bottom of the window also points to a very low velocity projectile. With a rock that size, it could not have been lobbed slow enough from the terrace. It could only have been lobbed from inside.

The second lob is also noticeable for how the stone ricochets between the side frames of the window.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:48 am   Post subject: UPDATE RE FILM REVIEW   

Hi, all,

I'm going to hold off on my review of the documentary till I've seen it one more time. Want to be sure what I write about than rush into it. I stand by what I said so far about it being biased and misleading, definitely. The producer and co-director's cheerleading for Knox has already been documented, and both Mignini and Nick Pisa have enough reason to be upset about what they've heard so far. BTW, I am told by one of the FOA who talked to the director at a screening in LA they wanted to interview the Kerchers but never heard back from them, presumably because they knew these were Knox supporters. They also sent a copy, and since they never heard back from them, "assume they're OK with it".

ETA: I misremembered that bit, withdrawn unreservedly, apologies.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:16 am   Post subject: FOA ERRORS   

Looking back on the rock I came across one instance of FOA getting their facts wrong.

IT'S MAGNINI, NOT MIGNINI
Quote:
Guermantes Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:58 am
RoseMontag wrote:
It talks about how the shutters had started blowing open in October and how Filomena took a "leadership role" with the landlord on this. She addressed two "security issues" regarding the front door that would only stay closed if locked and the shutters that would not stay closed. In retrospect, you could almost say that the Kercher's have grounds for a lawsuit with the landlord here. The landlord was represented in court by the Great Mignini hisself and was awarded some some of money as a result of the first trial. That was voided by Hellmann's court.

Priceless ... once again. I had to temporarily remove RoseMontag from my foe list to respond to this nonsense. The landlord was represented in court by the Great Mignini himself? Really? Please check your facts before posting them. The lawyer for the owner of the cottage in Via della Pergola was Letizia Magnini.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1173253/House-Meredith-Kercher-brutally-murdered-rental-market.html
http://www.perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?p=87874#p87874
Or maybe you meant to say "the Great Magnini"? ;)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

A more dispassionate, nonpartisan review of "Amanda Knox" by a British writer now living in LA.

Amanda Knox – Courting the Press
By Miv Evans

Quote:
One of the reasons Netflix financed this documentary could be that Amanda Knox narrates in person. However, her presence is far from charismatic as she sits woodenly on a stool, telling us what we already know and peppering her words with badly delivered banalities such as, “Either I’m a psychopath in sheep’s clothing, or I am you.” And as she stares dramatically into the camera, it becomes apparent that, somewhere along the way, Miss Knox has become addicted to fame and this is simply another vehicle to feed her habit.
[...]
Raffaele, Amanda’s boyfriend, is as vague as his paramour about this incident and also about everything else. Amanda ended their relationship when they were initially found guilty, but when they are exonerated, she is shown talking to him on the telephone. An explanation of how the pair ended their estrangement is another subject the filmmakers fail to track.


NEWS BLAZE
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

guermantes wrote:
A more dispassionate, nonpartisan review of "Amanda Knox" by a British writer living in LA.

Amanda Knox – Courting the Press
By Miv Evans

Quote:
One of the reasons Netflix financed this documentary could be that Amanda Knox narrates in person. However, her presence is far from charismatic as she sits woodenly on a stool, telling us what we already know and peppering her words with badly delivered banalities such as, “Either I’m a psychopath in sheep’s clothing, or I am you.” And as she stares dramatically into the camera, it becomes apparent that, somewhere along the way, Miss Knox has become addicted to fame and this is simply another vehicle to feed her habit.
[...]
Raffaele, Amanda’s boyfriend, is as vague as his paramour about this incident and also about everything else. Amanda ended their relationship when they were initially found guilty, but when they are exonerated, she is shown talking to him on the telephone. An explanation of how the pair ended their estrangement is another subject the filmmakers fail to track.


NEWS BLAZE


in her email to multiple people right after the murder, she refers to Sollecito as a "friend". Referring to her as a "boyfriend", was a later, essential invention, to keep him onside. (also, there was fabrication of the relationship between her and Meredith Kercher).
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

mundane documentary, pro-innocence nothing new

from the producer:

"“In the narrative of Amanda Knox, Amanda has been portrayed as the bad guy, especially for people in the United Kingdom, who saw the trashy, headline-driven press in The Daily Mail, The Sun, and The Daily Mirror that target “working class” citizens of that former empire. With salacious claims of “Foxy Knoxy, the girl who had to compete with her own mother for men” and other horrible, completely false headlines, eventually, anyone who didn’t bother to read the crap in the articles and only read the headlines, might believe that they had some validity, simply from seeing them over and over and over again.”"

http://heatst.com/world/questions-over-new-netflix-documentary-amanda-knox/

there's more information in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erla7Ley4Tw
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Producer Stephen Morse attacked the Kercher family while reporting on the appeals trial in Perugia:

https://aklwei.wordpress.com/2016/09/26 ... -kerchers/

Pat
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

pataz1 wrote:
Producer Stephen Morse attacked the Kercher family while reporting on the appeals trial in Perugia:

https://aklwei.wordpress.com/2016/09/26 ... -kerchers/

Pat


Shocking indeed, Pat. Accusing the Kerchers of being in it for the money.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The biggest lie was that they had no opinion.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Certainly amateurs so busy celebrating own goal? The business of pretending to be neutral after the fact takes more careful planning . Who was in charge of pre release erasing of key opinions? Admit now you believed she was innocent before you started the film and apologize for trailers and confusion.
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I love their "we started from the 2015 court decision and worked backwards." Really? How could you have "worked backwards" from a 2015 decision when you started in 2011 believing they were innocent?

Pat
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:09 pm   Post subject: NETFLIX REVIEW   

Newsweek Review
Quote:
In the period between the second conviction and conclusive acquittal, Knox approached the filmmakers about making a documentary.


A lie, somewhat. First they said they approached her, now it's the other way around?

According to our findings, they had been involved in the project since 2011. Interestingly, they only "approached the Kerchers in 2015 and 2016"?

And advocated for Knox's innocence way before then? No wonder she 'approached' them.
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Rod Blackhurst, Sep 19 2011: "Florence. Spent the day with Mario Spezi and Count Niccolo Capponi."

-Pat
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:18 am   Post subject: WAS IT ABOUT THE MOSTER OF FLORENCE ALL ALONG?   

pataz1 wrote:
Rod Blackhurst, Sep 19 2011: "Florence. Spent the day with Mario Spezi and Count Niccolo Capponi."

-Pat

Count Nicolo Cappioni is suspected of knowing rather more about the Monster of Florence than he lets on, Pat.
He gave Thomas Harris a guided tour for the Hannibal Lecter Movie

and the late Mario Spezi was a rather willing accomplice along with the very gullible Douglas Preston in directing the investigation away from the real killers. This is where the well connected political opposition to Mignini and rumours about his "sex and Satanism obsession" stem from.
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Offline hugo


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:41 am   Post subject: Re: NETFLIX REVIEW   

Ergon wrote:
Newsweek Review
Quote:
In the period between the second conviction and conclusive acquittal, Knox approached the filmmakers about making a documentary.


A lie, somewhat. First they said they approached her, now it's the other way around?

According to our findings, they had been involved in the project since 2011. Interestingly, they only "approached the Kerchers in 2015 and 2016"?

And advocated for Knox's innocence way before then? No wonder she 'approached' them.


In The Verge, when they talk about the filming of the interviews, Blackhurst and McGinn say, 'Amanda first spoke to us in January of 2014, right before she was re-convicted.' (This was also when she gave the Guardian / Newsnight interview to her penpal Simon Hattenstone.) As they underline in Newsweek, she initially wanted the film made as PR insurance against extradition. That need has passed, but it is clearly Knox who commissioned the film. And they interviewed her more than once (even if the sessions were shot to look like the same session), suggesting she had a covert 'right of reply' to what other interviewees said. It would be interesting to know what the terms were, and if she signed a standard release form or had some kind of approval over the edit. I'd suspect the latter.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/11/12878 ... 16-netflix
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:36 pm   Post subject: Re: NETFLIX REVIEW   

hugo wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Newsweek Review
Quote:
In the period between the second conviction and conclusive acquittal, Knox approached the filmmakers about making a documentary.


A lie, somewhat. First they said they approached her, now it's the other way around?

According to our findings, they had been involved in the project since 2011. Interestingly, they only "approached the Kerchers in 2015 and 2016"?

And advocated for Knox's innocence way before then? No wonder she 'approached' them.


In The Verge, when they talk about the filming of the interviews, Blackhurst and McGinn say, 'Amanda first spoke to us in January of 2014, right before she was re-convicted.' (This was also when she gave the Guardian / Newsnight interview to her penpal Simon Hattenstone.) As they underline in Newsweek, she initially wanted the film made as PR insurance against extradition. That need has passed, but it is clearly Knox who commissioned the film. And they interviewed her more than once (even if the sessions were shot to look like the same session), suggesting she had a covert 'right of reply' to what other interviewees said. It would be interesting to know what the terms were, and if she signed a standard release form or had some kind of approval over the edit. I'd suspect the latter.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/11/12878 ... 16-netflix

That would be when she was filmed, hugo. Negotiations would have been earlier, via Morse and Paxton. The late Joe Starr is also listed in the credits so that confirms a number of things, and Conti and Vechiotti being filmed (instead of Gill) to contest the DNA times the filming as well, mid 2015 I think.

Morse was in Perugia for the Hellmann acquittal so one would think that's when the Knoxii got to meet Morse.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Italian press packs and review commentaries are starting to filter through.

Quote:

Samuele Bersani’s lyrics from Cattiva (2004) seem uncannily apt: “Ask the killer for their autograph”.

She catalises attention. And she knows it, as she herself goes playing with her personality.

“If I had wasted time verifying things, I would have given the competition an advantage” – Nick Pisa.

It wasn’t just Italian journalists. The whole world had dunked the biscuit. The South Korean TV animation comes to mind, reconstructing the prosecution case theory, and there were segments on American broadcasts where every man and their dog was pontificating on the case including – surprise – Donald Trump, who invited people to boycott Italy over the treatment given to Amanda.

A very serious work [as opposed to blood-spatter ‘documentaries’ on Italian TV]

[Repubblica], Luigi Bolognini
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Never trust a film critic to get the facts right.

Ilaria Polimeni at [Cinematographe] says Amanda’s boss Patrick’s DNA was in Meredith’s room. [Was that the film, or just this critic? Obviously black guys are interchangeable.]

“More than anything, what convicted Amanda was her behaviour: not being visibly upset, kissing Raffale just after finding out about Meredith, doing dance moves at the police station and changing her versions of her story.”

“definitively acquitted (just last year) due to a huge lack of evidence and inconclusive investigations”

Polimeni thinks the two directors simply wanted to give Amanda a chance to explain herself. Polimeni thinks they might have achieved that.

The film will be on Netflix in Italy on 30 September.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:35 pm   Post subject: RE: THE KERCHERS   

Carlofab of IIP complains about misplaced quotation marks
Quote:
Clive,

And how would you categorize a deliberate and blatant distortion as when ...

I post on Heat Street: "[The filmmakers] asked the Kerchers to participate but got no response. BTW, you may wish to know they sent the Kerchers a copy of the film -- again with no response -- but they do have it and presumably have seen it."

And Naseer Ahamad reports this on PMF as --

"BTW, I am told by one of the FOA who talked to the director at a screening in LA they wanted to interview the Kerchers but never heard back from them, presumably because they knew these were Knox supporters. They also sent a copy, and since they never heard back from them, 'assume they're OK with it'."


referring to my post UPDATE RE FILM REVIEW

He's right, and I misplaced the direct quote marks, withdrawn and edited accordingly. Which I tend to do when I make mistakes.

He, of course, didn't help by bracketing it in the original heat street post with
Quote:
Where was Miles Goslett when Andrea Vogt made the BBC documentary? I saw "Amanda Knox" at a private screening by the International Documentary Association last night. Both directors were there for questions. They said all participants have seen the film and are happy with how they are portrayed. Both directors appear to believe Knox innocent and recommend Burleigh's fatal gift of Beauty" to those seeking more information. Nonetheless the film is quite kind to Mignini, and makes no criticism of Pisa. It got quite a laugh when Pisa boasted of his scoop on Amanda's list of lovers after the bogus HIV diagnosis. "Where did you get that?" he is asked. He grins and says, "A reporter doesn't reveal his sources." We laugh because he is winking at us, saying "you know damned well where I got it."


Quote:
Read my post. I did not "asume," I "presumed," which means to imagine, conjecture, speculate that at least one of the Kerchers looked at the film sent to them. If, as you say, they "wisely tossed the parcel in the trash," that's okay with me. I know nothing about how Nick Pisa feels about the film but the directors say he was satisfied; these were not interrogations, the participants each portrayed him/herself as they wished. Mignini told Peter Quennel he had a good experience with the directors and will withhold judgment until the film is released to see if it is the same as the copy sent to him. That information is from Peter Quennell so attack him if you think he is lying.


Since Arline Kercher is featured in the film, there you go, Carlofab.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:55 pm   Post subject: ON STALKERS AND BEING STALKED   

Stalker extraordinaire Michael B wants to know if I'm on 'a watch list because I may have stalked Knox in Toronto like I did Frank' :)

Thanks for the laughs, my little leprechaun, but as I said at the time, I was at home, hiding hbc)

Knox can always have her tame Seattle police sergeant, er, FBI agent, give me a call. Or check my phones, I understand he's pretty good with Stingray cell phone tracking?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Andrea Coccia at [Linkiesta] (=”Linkquest”), “Colpevole o innocente, di sicuro il mostro non è Amanda Knox” (Guilty or innocent, for sure the monster is not Amanda Knox) goes for the Luminol metaphor: if you like Dostoyevsky, watch this: there’s no trial, no murder, no laboratories and not even a shadow of the search for truth: just humanity reacting to blood and celebrity. The result is a sideshow of monsters. Everyone is the bad guy. The shadows cover Mignini, who grotesquely emerges as an infantile Sherlock Holmes fan and fervent catholic who is convinced, from the start, of Amanda’s guilt thanks to a hunch that is acceptable only in a legal thriller: “Only a woman would have covered the body of another woman, a man would never have done that.” You can almost hear Kafka laughing behind the scenes. Laughing scoop-chasing gossip-reporter Mark Pisa [sic] is literally “frightening”. As is a public with thumbs ready to decide the fate of those about to die in the arena. There is no truth, or better, the truth hasn't changed: the monsters are us.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

There's a certain cognitive dissonance common to these reviews, which may be the reviewers picking up the vibe of the film without thinking about it.

Sort of like someone at a party whispering "assumed innocent", and then that post-hypnotically colours the rest of the conversation (per Mr D Brown, I think his name was, with his experiments).

Of course, in the logic of post-hypnosis, if someone is innocent, then someone else must be the guilty party - which is where Patrick comes in, or his stand-in.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

What Does Amanda Knox Think Of The Netflix Doc? She Offers Her Quiet Support
By Olivia Truffaut-Wong
23 hours ago

Quote:
It's safe to assume that Knox supports the new film, as she participated in its making, although when contacted by Bustle, a rep for Knox had no comment. [...]

Knox seems to have given the documentary her full blessing, as she's tweeted a link to the trailer from her official Twitter account and has shared links to articles praising the film. She even attended the Amanda Knox premiere at the Toronto International Film Festival in mid-September. Overall, though, Knox seems to prefer her privacy when it comes to the doc, as she was not present at a TIFF Q&A following the premiere, and, according to the LA Times, was not available for interviews or press requests at the festival. Perhaps, instead of lending the documentary her vocal support, Knox has chosen to let it speak for itself.

[...] Whatever the reason, it seems unlikely that we will hear Knox speak about the documentary before its premiere on Sept. 30. After that, who knows?


BUSTLE
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

After a long long pause, I've just read several of Knox's pieces in West Seattle Herald, following the links she tweeted from her Twitter account. All she writes about is "Me, Myself and I", "my little sisters", "my boyfriend", "my grandma" (who seems to have passed away just recently), and so on, and so forth. Yawn. It's called "Writing from personal experience"? Who is interested in little details of her everyday life? Her weekly column should be renamed: "Amanda's View of Herself." The photos she posts on her Twitter are reflective of her character and personality as well; her weirdness shines through yet again.

In her latest column, she writes that she is applying to graduate school.

Amanda Knox wrote:
I’m applying to graduate school in the winter, which means that we might need to relocate as soon as next September. And the job market being what it is, it’s never certain when and where professional opportunity might strike, or how long it will last. Like many of our peers, as we each build our careers, we have to stay flexible.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:20 pm   Post subject: HOW TO VIEW NETFLIX (AND SAVE IT)   

Netflix makes it very hard to download movies which annoys its customer base no end. Here's two methods: one free, but creates huge files through screen capture https://www.movavi.com/support/how-to/h ... ovies.html Then there's a paid service https://www.playon.tv/playlater which looks good because it's saved as an MP4 file.

I'll view but not record, too much trouble. Maybe others will, don't know. But anyone can watch on their computer, https://www.netflix.com/ca/ first month free. Which I'll do for my review. I really want to watch a second time to see what I missed.

IIRC there are at least three other false facts. Conti and Vecchiotti that it was "contamination", Hellmann that they were railroaded, Ginn and Broadhurst in the end credits that they were exonerated. Not mentioning on reasonable doubt. But I need to watch again to be sure.

Quite a few omissions like Guede's Skype call which says she wasn't there, but not his statements that implicate her. No mention of Guede acting in concert with others, so Knox gets to call him a burglar and blame it all on him.

What I wrote so far there was bias and selective editing which didn't serve Mignini or Pisa, but completely favoured Knox in is framing/

Please note the documentary Netflix Italy: Complete Movie List and TV Show List might release in Italy (release date Sept. 30) or, if not, there's a free seven day trial for a service where you can

Watch American Netflix from Italy

or anywhere else :)
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Offline hugo


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Catnip wrote:
There's a certain cognitive dissonance common to these reviews, which may be the reviewers picking up the vibe of the film without thinking about it.


That indeed is what bad reviewers of films (and books) tend to do. But the film was made by advocates and supporters of Knox who had been in touch with her and her family for some years, and they needed to declare that, and they didn't -- in fact they are assiduously attempting to conceal it.

They've sold Netflix, and the paying public, a false bill of goods. They are not the impartial 'artists' they make themselves out to be, but pre-committed partisans.


Last edited by hugo on Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline hugo


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:25 pm   Post subject: Re: NETFLIX REVIEW   

Ergon wrote:
The late Joe Starr is also listed in the credits so that confirms a number of things...


Yes... it does, doesn't it?
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Offline jamie


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:39 pm   Post subject: Re: NETFLIX REVIEW   

hugo wrote:
Ergon wrote:
The late Joe Starr is also listed in the credits so that confirms a number of things...


Yes... it does, doesn't it?



Joe Starr, best friend of Chris Mellas?
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:39 pm   Post subject: RAFFAELE SOLLECITO   

His old Facebook page no longer available, now at Raffaele Sollecito
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:53 pm   Post subject: Re: NETFLIX REVIEW   

jamie wrote:
hugo wrote:
Ergon wrote:
The late Joe Starr is also listed in the credits so that confirms a number of things...


Yes... it does, doesn't it?



Joe Starr, best friend of Chris Mellas?


The same, jamie.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Tired of reading all these homogeneous reviews of the same kind. This one is by someone who has Italian roots and has spent a semester in Perugia.

It’s Finally Possible to Understand What Happened to Amanda Knox
By Gabriella Paiella

In the fall of 2010, I flew to Perugia, Italy, where I would spend the first semester of my senior year of college abroad. I had chosen the small Umbrian city partially because I found a program that allowed me to pursue an independent study and partially because I was hoping to improve my Italian, which, despite a father who’d grown up in Milan, was embarrassingly shoddy. Before I set off for my trip, I remember being preoccupied with the mundanities of study abroad: coordinating my flights, figuring out what to pack, researching cell-phone plans. The last thing on my mind was Amanda Knox, whose infamous trial had occurred the previous year.


NEW YORK MAGAZINE
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

guermantes wrote:
Tired of reading all these homogeneous reviews of the same kind. This one is by someone who has Italian roots and has spent a semester in Perugia.

It’s Finally Possible to Understand What Happened to Amanda Knox
By Gabriella Paiella

In the fall of 2010, I flew to Perugia, Italy, where I would spend the first semester of my senior year of college abroad. I had chosen the small Umbrian city partially because I found a program that allowed me to pursue an independent study and partially because I was hoping to improve my Italian, which, despite a father who’d grown up in Milan, was embarrassingly shoddy. Before I set off for my trip, I remember being preoccupied with the mundanities of study abroad: coordinating my flights, figuring out what to pack, researching cell-phone plans. The last thing on my mind was Amanda Knox, whose infamous trial had occurred the previous year.


NEW YORK MAGAZINE


Several of us have over 50 of these bookmarked already, to post against.

It would help immensely if damning paras could be quoted here. Those paras we will take down, mostly in 1-2 lines with a link if that helps at all.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:38 pm   Post subject: THE MONSTER OF FLORENCE   

On the mysterious death of Pietro Pacciani and his role in the Monster Of Florence case. The origin of the belief a secret group of influential Italians covered out these killings over a period of time using occult paranormal methods: Pietro Pacciani-The Monster Of Florence?

Programmed To Kill/Satanic Cover-Up Part 35 (Pietro Pacciani - The Monster of Florence)

Meh! The YouTube functionality of this site is no longer working. The link works though.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:11 pm   Post subject: NETFLIX DOCUMENTARY REVIEW   

Comment in the new review at The Guardian
Inside Netflix’s Amanda Knox: ‘She was cast as a she-devil’

which makes it the third, or fourth?

“Nick is extremely good at what he’s asked to do, which is to find headlines every six hours for a news cycle that rolls on 24 hours a day,” says Blackhurst. “ Just look at the comments thread that follows any story about Amanda. It says a lot.”

It might say something about the filmmaker too, that he addresses his subject by her first name. He and the producer of this film have been advocating online for Knox's innocence since 2011, but represent themselves as objective documentarians.

Having seen "Amanda Knox" at the Toronto International Film Festival, the audience wasn't "repulsed" by Nick Pisa, they laughed out loud at his gleeful pursuit of his story, seeing it as a reflection of the viewership chasing media itself; something people have become immured to, sorry. And the underlying point about media sensationalism has already been made, in Andrea Vogt's BBC documentary and the Michael Winterbottom movie "Face Of An Angel".

This documentary is neither original nor unbiased, sadly just another in a long line that follows the American Netflix template of advocating for someone they feel was wrongly accused. Adnan Syed, Steven Avery, and now, Amanda Knox. Ironically, using the same techniques of media sensationalism they so decry. n.

Added: "Posted previous comment too quickly. Disclosure: I am one of the editors of The Murder Of Meredith Kercher website http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page

This wiki style site was created by a group of volunteer editors to inform the public about the case, by providing a unique collection of translations of original documents and evidence presented at trial for those interested in this fascinating, unsolved case."
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Offline corpusvile


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:55 pm   Post subject: Re: THE MONSTER OF FLORENCE   

Ergon wrote:
On the mysterious death of Pietro Pacciani and his role in the Monster Of Florence case. The origin of the belief a secret group of influential Italians covered out these killings over a period of time using occult paranormal methods: Pietro Pacciani-The Monster Of Florence?

Programmed To Kill/Satanic Cover-Up Part 35 (Pietro Pacciani - The Monster of Florence)

Meh! The YouTube functionality of this site is no longer working. The link works though.

Lol at Sollecito's defence consultant Francesco Bruno getting his home raided.
Bruno, along with religious historian Massimo Introvigne, both independently of each other were among the first to suspect an occult group of being behind the murders although Introvigne stressed that they were probably paraphiliacs using occult trappings to fuel their pathology.
What's particularly interesting is that Bruno drew up a profile for the Italian secret service and according to English media accounts specifically named the rest home mentioned in your link.
How tf did Bruno know this?
Sollecito can't seem to help letting his own pathology show either, particularly his evident fascination with serial killers, if his hiring of Alfredo Brizioli as his defence for his upcoming calunnia trial is anything to go by.
Brizioli went on trial for covering up the circumstances of the death of Francesco Narducci, himself a a Monster of Florence suspect. He was one of the so called Florence 20 and the only one acquitted with the rest having charges dropped due to the statutes of limitations expiring, which is what I strongly suspect will happen with Sollecito's calunnia trial btw.
Not the first time Brizioli (who was a personal friend of Narducci before his mysterious death and suspected homicide) had gone on trial either. He was acquitted in his youth of a suspected mob connected string of burglaries.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:09 pm   Post subject: NETFLIX REVIEW "AMANDA KNOX" DOCUMENTARY   

Reply to the Review in New York Mag-The Cut

It’s Finally Possible to Understand What Happened to Amanda Knox
By Gabriella Paiella
Quote:
The reviewer, seeing the documentary through the prism of her own experience as an American in Perugia, seems to identify closely with Knox as portrayed by the film makers. Disclosure: I am one of the editors of The Murder Of Meredith Kercher website http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page

This wiki style site was created by a group of volunteer editors to inform the public about the case, by providing a unique collection of translations of original documents and evidence presented at trial for those interested in this fascinating, unsolved case.

I saw the film in Toronto at the film festival and found a disturbing pattern of selective omission, deceptive editing, and deliberative framing of a narrative that quite frankly, is neither effective nor original.

The producer, having met CBS's Peter Van Sant in Perugia during the 2011 appeal, makes the same case repeated several times in American media: Amanda Knox was rushed to judgment through the actions of a prosecutor in a hurry to solve this case because of media pressure.

Media sensationalism, and the aspect of Knox's sexuality, was already covered in the Andrea Vogt BBC documentary which lays out the overwhelming evidence against Knox, and the Michael Winterbottom film "Face Of An Angel" based on Barbie Nadeau's book which skewers the way the media treated her, with an easily recognizable Nick Pisa there.

The producer and film makers also fail to disclose their prior advocacy on behalf of Knox which include many online attacks on prosecutor Mignini and reporters Nadeau and Vogt. Something that Mignini was not aware of when he consented to be interviewed. They also omit disclosure it was this advocacy on her behalf which convinced Knox to give them access. McGinn and Blackhurst are welcome to present their point of view, but it is an insult to the audience not to reveal prior bias.

Having studied the actual case files as translated by our Italian speaking editors I see the prosecution did NOT follow a hunch based on the placement of the blanket over the body or Knox's inappropriate behavior, but, their conflicting alibis, lies Knox told about showering in the cottage the day the body was discovered, and the fact the break in obviously looked staged.

Knox and Sollecito were arrested when Sollecito, called in to explain inconsistencies in his testimony, threw Knox under the bus by withdrawing her alibi and saying she went out that night; previously both had claimed they spent all night in. He never backed her alibi again, and his defense tried to work out a plea deal in which he offered to testify against her. They continued to feed us information when it looked like he would be convicted, portraying Knox as having bought cocaine that night. They even leaked information about her connections with drug dealers.

Knox, panicking, accused an innocent black man of the murder. He was able to produce an alibi but lost his business as a result. Knox, with her $ 4 million advance has refused to pay the modest 40,000 Euro fine, claiming she was coerced. This was rejected by the Supreme Court and the three year felony conviction stands on the record. It cannot be reversed. And by placing herself at the scene of the crime, this has never been reversed by the Supreme Court, which finds she was present that night. Something she continues to lie about, yet McGinn and Blackhurst never once challenge her about Patrick Lumumba, allowing her to portray Rudy Guede as the sole killer. Again, that was disproved by the Supreme Court conviction of Guede, that he acted in conjunction with others, specifically naming the other two.

There are too many omissions to list here. Suffice to say this is a documentary in the Netflix mold, where film makers try to convince people of the innocence of certain individuals, be it Adnan Syed, Steven Avery, or, Amanda Knox by over representing the defense, and misreporting the prosecution.

Ironically, they themselves try to use trial by media in making their case.

Americans hopefully will see that justice has to be accorded to both the accused and the victim. False documentaries that try to exonerate people for the purpose of ratings must be seen as what they are, demeaning to public discourse.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:38 am   Post subject: CLIPS FROM KNOX DOCUMENTARY   

Those who want to review it please see extended clips from the documentary posted here when you rebut-hopefully it will be viewed in full
Today Show

Scene: Mignini scowling at screen.

Fade to KNOX tremulous, wavering voice, tearing up.

Quote:
"I knew that wasn't the answer he wanted to hear. From now on he wasn't going to believe a word I said."

Ahem :)
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Offline Rumpole


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:41 am   Post subject: Re: NETFLIX DOCUMENTARY REVIEW   

Ergon wrote:
Comment in the new review at The Guardian
Inside Netflix’s Amanda Knox: ‘She was cast as a she-devil’

which makes it the third, or fourth?

Well, obviously Guardian's an ad agency these days as Kit pointed out in OffGuardian last week:

Guardian sells space to war-profiteers to promote war.


I wonder what kind of an agreement they have with Netflix for this AK doc reviews galore PR gig?


But what an utterly shameful rag of a newspaper. Can't be bothered to read the article, 712 comments - very odd - at the moment, and comments still open, how many will there be after any future cleaning procedure is anyone's guess. I at least won't pay a cent to see this doc. Nor will I ever again in my life buy a printed copy of the Guardian. Nor will I ever donate any money to them (they have been begging money on their pages recently). Instead I'll donate more money to Democracy Now and ConsortiumNews that at least try to be honest in their reporting.

See what they did to Noam Chomsky 11 years ago, never knew the Guardian would go so low as to fabricate stuff, but they did, and probably have been doing for years:

Open Letter to The Guardian/ Noam Chomsky

A few extracts:

"The general interest is that the print version reveals a very impressive effort, which obviously took careful planning and work,

to construct an exercise in defamation that is a model of the genre."


"The reporter obviously had a definite agenda: to focus the defamation exercise on my denial of the Srebrenica massacre.

From the character of what appeared, it is not easy to doubt that she was assigned this task.

When I wouldn’t go along, she simply invented the denial, repeatedly, along with others."



"The warning is: if you accept the invitation, be cautious, and make sure to have a tape recorder that is very visibly placed in front of you.

That may inhibit the dedication to deceit, and if not, at least you will have a record.

I should add that in probably thousands of interviews from every corner of the world and every

part of the spectrum for decades, that thought has never occurred to me before. It does now."



"The article is then framed by a series of photographs. Let’s put aside childhood photos and an honorary degree — included for no apparent reason other than, perhaps, to reinforce

the image the reporter sought to convey of a rich elitist hypocrite who tells people how to live (citing a comment of her own, presumably supposed to be clever, which will not be

found on the tape, I am reasonably confident). Those apart, there are three photos depicting my actual life. It’s an interesting choice, and the captions are even more interesting.

One is a picture of me “talking to journalist John Pilger” (who isn’t shown, but let’s give the journal the benefit of the doubt of assuming he is actually in the original). The second

is of me “meeting Fidel Castro.” The third, and most interesting, is a picture of me “in Laos en route to Hanoi to give a speech to the North Vietnamese.”


That’s my life: honoring commie-rats and the renegade who is the source of the word “pilgerize” invented by journalists furious about his incisive and courageous reporting, and

knowing that the only response they are capable of is ridicule."



Jen, in the War promo comments wrote:
Sad to see The Guardian has become nothing more than a corporate public relations firm.

All that’s now needed is to change its staff’s job titles from journalists to sales representatives, columnists to consultants and specialists, freelancers to contractors, editors to administrators, and chief editor to CEO.


michaelelk, War promo comments wrote:
Journalism, like so much in the economy and society, is becoming more polarized, seemingly, by the month.

On one side the mainstream, corporate/state media, on the other various platforms, like Wikileaks and Off-Guardian, that are determined to challenge the stories or big narrative

that’s being stuffed down people’s throats, by the Guardian and the BBC, and, sadly this is mirrored all across the western world. Most of the rest of the West’s media copies,

virtually word for word, the stories appearing in the BBC, Guardian and the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, New York Times. They actually often wait when something

happens until these media leaders have spoken, before they publish their own versions, in case they by mistake say anything that might contradict Washington’s line. And

Washington is out like a shot with their version and framing of events, like the convoy attack, which means it’s incredibly difficult for the journalists in client or vassal states to

challenge, even if they wanted to, the events framed by Washington. ‘Freedom’ u gotta luv it!


The economics of newspapers, being what they are, which is, increasingly dire. Means that it’s getting harder and harder to tell the difference between, what amount to paid

advertisements produced by corporations or ‘NGOs’ that are really part of corporations or linked to the State. This is a trend and it’s getting worse and is bound to grow in

importance and the cost of ‘real journalism’ is becoming prohibative. Journalists are being replaced by PR people, people who sell ‘independent’ revues of all sorst of consumer

products, movies, music… and, increasingly, our overseas military campaigns/interventions, which used to be called, wars; imperialist wars.


I've noticed this waiting and subservience with quite a few European newspapers, and they actually often even quote NYT and the Washington Post directly when they are trying to enhance some particular viewpoint - as if anyone would take anything those neocon rags say seriously unless verified by reliable independent sources other than US state department.


Last edited by Rumpole on Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Verbal duel between Sollecito and Guede on the pages of Giallo [magazine]: viewtopic.php?style=6&p=131127#p131127

I believe the following article hasn't been posted/translated before
(Raffaele Sollecito reacts to Rudy Guede's request for a review of his sentence):

17 August 2016

RUDY GUEDE NEWS: Rudy Guede remains serene and has faith in justice and institutions that represent it

[...] "I have faith in justice and in the institutions that represent it," he added, considering himself serene and ready to accept any outcome. Even if he is ordered to serve his entire sentence, Rudy Guede says: "I will continue to trust in institutions, in people and in the future that awaits me." An attitude, much more mature than that of previous years, as evidenced by his interview in Giallo.

The Ivorian asks for a review of the process. The outburst of Sollecito: “I’ve never seen the crime scene.”

Raffaele Sollecito reacts to Guede’s request for a review and he does so at the Caffè della Versiliana [in Versilia, province of Lucca - ed.], responding to Luccaindiretta.it . The young man, acquitted along with Amanda Knox, accused of killing the British student, does not believe that Rudy Guede's request will be approved, but, if it were, he is not worried about a possible new trial. In the interview, among other things, Sollecito has pointed out that 'few know that Amanda and I haven't even seen the crime scene. When they broke down the door, we were the last people down the hall. What I remember are upset faces of the young people who had broken down the door. But these things aren’t told in newspapers and on social networks. And nobody knows that Amanda and I had met only five days before. “ […]

Lawyer Daniele Bocciolini comments on the case re: the request for a review of the process by lawyers of the Ivorian

Soon, the Court of Appeal of Florence will be asked to comment on the review request advanced by Rudy Guede’s lawyers. Lawyer Daniele Bocciolini spoke about it on the pages of the weekly Giallo, commenting on the case that has again become the focus of news. "In my opinion, the acquittal of Amanda (Knox) and Raffaele (Sollecito) does not pay attention to the position of 'incompatibility' nor implies the 'incompatibility' with the conviction of Guede," said the lawyer, "acquittal for not having committed the crime of the other two defendants does not therefore rule out the guilt of Guede.” The lawyer, in analyzing the request for review of Guede’s trial, therefore reaffirmed that the only argument that the Court of Florence might consider would be represented by 'errors' in the investigation, referred to in the judgment of the Supreme Court that acquitted Amanda and Raffaele.

Raffaele Sollecito: “A request for review will never be accepted, here’s why”

[…] According to Sollecito, as stated today in Versilia, Rudy Guede’s request for a review will never be accepted, but if it is, he is not worried. "It would clarify many things that have been said about me and about the trial," he said, then noting that Rudy Guede "was not convicted in complicity [with others]", but his individual responsibility had been established, and also aggravating circumstances of the crime. This is why Raffaele Sollecito cannot see the [new] appeal, given that a possible complicity in murder was a prosecution’s theory and is not part of the final verdict.

Meanwhile, Raffaele Sollecito has declared that he is satisfied with his life since he can now act in the open and in total freedom, despite being in the public eye. 'The thing that hurts is that justice had pronounced me innocent in court, but did nothing to help me recover my existence.' […] In the eight years of trials (a total of 200 hearings), he then reveals, his family has accrued debts of 400,000 Euros and had to sell almost everything [quasi tutto].


IL SUSSIDIARUO

------------------

"... his family ... had to sell almost everything" - What a liar. He lies habitually without even blushing.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

guermantes wrote:

"... his family ... had to sell almost everything" - What a liar. He lies habitually without even blushing.


So does Knox, guermantes; she lies like an unkempt rug throughout the documentary.
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

New post coming on Thursday AM looking at Morse's writings...

-Pat


Last edited by pataz1 on Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:05 am   Post subject: NETFLIX DOCS KNOX   

New comment at The Guardian review:

Quote:
I see comments saying "she was exonerated by the DNA evidence". Not true.

The documentary quotes DNA experts Conti and Vecchiotti as saying the evidence was contaminated yet ignores the Italian Supreme Court 2013 ruling finding their report proved no such thing.

The latest court ruling only questions the delay in collecting the forensic evidence, thus creating reasonable doubt, and makes no scientific finding.

Those who watched the recent TV show "The People vs. OJ Simpson" see defence lawyers working to create reasonable doubt around DNA evidence, using unproven standards to exonerate people who the body of evidence shows their complicity in heinous crimes. The untutored audience weaned on CSI type shows might see DNA as a magic bullet; it is not. Yet even judges and juries can be baffled by this.

When you see a rash of TV hungry experts and defense attorneys showing up demanding retrials on the basis of DNA, you might wonder what this will do to the system of justice. As we saw in the case of the missing Madeleine McCann, the West Memphis Three and Jon Benet Ramsey, even the most spurious doubts presented by the defense can be used to wrongly 'exonerate' people who might otherwise be sentenced in a court of law.
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

guermantes wrote:
"... his family ... had to sell almost everything" - What a liar. He lies habitually without even blushing.


Yeah I am unaware of anything being sold tho there may have been a property.

However Papa Doc did complain a lot as the Knox-Mellases were reaping millions and he nothing from PR and had Bongiorno's huge bills to pay.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Fast Pete wrote:
guermantes wrote:
"... his family ... had to sell almost everything" - What a liar. He lies habitually without even blushing.


Yeah I am unaware of anything being sold tho there may have been a property.

However Papa Doc did complain a lot as the Knox-Mellases were reaping millions and he nothing from PR and had Bongiorno's huge bills to pay.

Hi, Fast Pete, yet RS got $975,000 for his book, travels all over, hides his money in Cyprus, and just as Chris Mellas 'bought' Knox's cottage she goes up to in the documentary, (the meatballs scene) Papa Doc buys the (second hand) Porsche he'd been leasing but RS poses beside in quite a few photos. I got the ownership papers off his license plate :)
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

It seems like Bruce Fisher should be given writing credit on the new documentary... since the documentary and Morse's comments seem surprisingly close to a post Fisher wrote just before the trio of filmmakers arrived in Perugia to start their project:

https://aklwei.wordpress.com/2016/09/29 ... -campaign/

Pat
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Offline hugo


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Well, Blackhurst's hook-up with Spezi in 2011 (when he'd already been tweeting 'Free Amanda Knox' for over a year) seems to mean that Morse, Blackhurst and McGinn are actual paid-up card-carrying Friends Of Amanda. The introduction to Spezi would be from FOA's Douglas Preston. And Blackhurst having dinner with Peter van Sant and the CBS flacks -- introduction from FOA's Paul Ciolino, presumably. (All this and on-screen credits for Madison Paxton and the late Joe Starr too.)
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:11 pm   Post subject: NETFLIX CIRCLES-ZENN DIAGRAM NEEDED   

hugo wrote:
Well, Blackhurst's hook-up with Spezi in 2011 (when he'd already been tweeting 'Free Amanda Knox' for over a year) seems to mean that Morse, Blackhurst and McGinn are actual paid-up card-carrying Friends Of Amanda. The introduction to Spezi would be from FOA's Douglas Preston. And Blackhurst having dinner with Peter van Sant and the CBS flacks -- introduction from FOA's Paul Ciolino, presumably. (All this and on-screen credits for Madison Paxton and the late Joe Starr too.)

Hi, hugo, it was Morse who hooked up with van Sant though it's possible Blackhurst was also there.
Stephen Robert Morse
Quote:
I was taken out to dinner by the CBS news crew who were covering Amanda Knox’s trial in Italy. Who saddles up next to me at the table? None other than Peter Van Sant, the news anchor and 48 Hours host.

Indications are that Morse, Blackhurst and McGinn were first brought together through the Facebook pages set up by the FOA. Curious how every one who jumped on the band wagon the same time lied about how they met each other? (Steve Moore comes to mind). Morse quoting Injustice In Perugia somewhere I am told. Sfarzo being one of the sources for Nadeau's film.

Sure, Preston, Spezi were involved. But who brought them in? The Monster Of Florence crowd? When you see the media/power elite links, it becomes clear.

I'm sure there were a few credits I missed at the end as every one rushed for the exits :)
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Thanks Ergon, more to be revealed I'm sure. I read a tweet post from one of the Filmmakers thanking a Guilia, wondering if its the IIP friend and translator.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:32 pm   Post subject: EARLY REPORTING ON THE CASE   

'Amanda Knox Has A Right To Protest Her Innocence'
By Polly Dunbar
28 Sep 2016 12:51

Quote:
On the evening of November 3, 2007, I was sent to Perugia to report on Meredith's murder for the newspaper I worked for. Her body had been found earlier that day (?)..
...I worked with Nick Pisa, a British reporter based in Italy who went on to cover the case so extensively that he features as an expert in the Netflix documentary, Amanda Knox. We roamed around the city's bars and cafes, speaking to people who'd known Meredith, all of whom described her as sociable, sweet, clever and conscientious.

Then something happened which I've thought about countless times since. An Italian journalist told us the police already had a suspect: 'the American housemate', as they called Knox. How could they have reached such a dramatic conclusion just a day after finding Meredith's body?..

..Despite her acquittal in 2011 – and second, definitive exoneration by the Italian Supreme Court last year - there are many people who still believe Amanda Knox is guilty. Despite her release from prison after serving four years, she'll never really be free. That's why, although I don't know if her participation in the documentary will change the minds of anyone determined to believe she's a cold-blooded murderer, I can understand her wanting to try.

This article from a reporter who arrived Perugia November 03? doesn't clearly say when the police suspected Knox. But, assuming it was November 02, here's an omission by the documentary. It underplays the staged break in, (and lies about showering in the bloody bathroom) overplays Mignini's "Sherlock Holmesian hunches" about "only a woman would cover the body", when Mignini clearly meant he suspected an inside job. The other room mates had alibis too..

But now we're moving into "documentary" territory which never is neutral IMV - witness the other Netflix that premiered, "White Helmets" it's interesting to note the emotional manipulation by the "Amanda Knox" film makers, and Knox herself...
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

malvern wrote:
Thanks Ergon, more to be revealed I'm sure. I read a tweet post from one of the Filmmakers thanking a Guilia, wondering if its the IIP friend and translator.


Might be, malvern, though it might be Bongiorno. I'm not sure how much of a translator Giufuliafa is considering where she used Google in one instance and plagiarized us many others (side by side comparisons posted on twitter).
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Amanda blamed the Prosecution on GMA for the fact its all about her and not Meredith . Cough cough


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Offline Hennesy


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

"We weren't best friends, but I was so shocked by what happened to her"? Seriously? How can she dare say this? Keep publicly addressing Meredith and her family?

If she were innocent she would know that she played a major role in her conviction with her quirky behavior, her lies and her false accusation of an innocent man and she would shut up, she is utterly disgusting but worse and less comprehensible thing is the fact that people don't see it, her "me, me, me and only me" blog, Raffaele's recent murder-knife pictures, her dark references to a fake break-in she staged, her being afraid of flushing the toilet story, her almost-drowning story, the collins dictionary, her constant remarks at the so-called injustice, her visible-from-a-mile fakeness and shallow attitude, her "I am the lucky one" message to the Kerchers the night of SC acquittal, is it me or did the the world turn into a crazy place?
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Offline Rumpole


Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:46 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Knox interviewed on Good Morning America, advertising the doc (one needs to pretend to be in the US, at least didn't work for me before turning on Anonymox):

Amanda Knox Speaks Out on New Netflix Documentary, Being 'Wrongfully Convicted'
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Rumpole wrote:
Knox interviewed on Good Morning America, advertising the doc (one needs to pretend to be in the US, at least didn't work for me before turning on Anonymox):

Amanda Knox Speaks Out on New Netflix Documentary, Being 'Wrongfully Convicted'


Good catch. It all helps. We're doing a list of suggested media questions for Knox. Want to help?

Dont pretend to be in NY as the puffed up "Bruce Fisher" did for years! I used to wonder if I was looking at him on the streets. Driving back from the West Coast I cruised by the mall outside Chicago where his fur shop is. Its round the back, what a desolate depressing place. He must have had a lot of time on his hands and good reason for Walter Mitty Dreams.

Actually we welcome all here. Do come.
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:01 pm   Post subject: Re: EARLY REPORTING ON THE CASE   

Ergon wrote:
'Amanda Knox Has A Right To Protest Her Innocence'
By Polly Dunbar
28 Sep 2016 12:51

Quote:
On the evening of November 3, 2007, I was sent to Perugia to report on Meredith's murder for the newspaper I worked for. Her body had been found earlier that day (?)..
...I worked with Nick Pisa, a British reporter based in Italy who went on to cover the case so extensively that he features as an expert in the Netflix documentary, Amanda Knox. We roamed around the city's bars and cafes, speaking to people who'd known Meredith, all of whom described her as sociable, sweet, clever and conscientious.

Then something happened which I've thought about countless times since. An Italian journalist told us the police already had a suspect: 'the American housemate', as they called Knox. How could they have reached such a dramatic conclusion just a day after finding Meredith's body?..

..Despite her acquittal in 2011 – and second, definitive exoneration by the Italian Supreme Court last year - there are many people who still believe Amanda Knox is guilty. Despite her release from prison after serving four years, she'll never really be free. That's why, although I don't know if her participation in the documentary will change the minds of anyone determined to believe she's a cold-blooded murderer, I can understand her wanting to try.

This article from a reporter who arrived Perugia November 03? doesn't clearly say when the police suspected Knox. But, assuming it was November 02, here's an omission by the documentary. It underplays the staged break in, (and lies about showering in the bloody bathroom) overplays Mignini's "Sherlock Holmesian hunches" about "only a woman would cover the body", when Mignini clearly meant he suspected an inside job. The other room mates had alibis too..

But now we're moving into "documentary" territory which never is neutral IMV - witness the other Netflix that premiered, "White Helmets" it's interesting to note the emotional manipulation by the "Amanda Knox" film makers, and Knox herself...


That "police" suspected Knox on 3 Nov definitely isnt true. This may have been the aggrandizing clown from Rome (I was appalled when I got the translation back!!) but not all.

There were some curious indicators from day one and they were watchful electronically but when she confessed (sort of) on 5-6 Nov it was a genuine surprise. They really BELIEVED she was an unfortunate bystander, not surprising as she babbled about a dangerous Patrick for hours.

When she did her list of possible perps for Rita Ficarra with maps and phone numbers they spent days following up on every one.

Of course she was the ONLY one to hit herself on the head that night.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Rumpole wrote:
Knox interviewed on Good Morning America, advertising the doc (one needs to pretend to be in the US, at least didn't work for me before turning on Anonymox):

Amanda Knox Speaks Out on New Netflix Documentary, Being 'Wrongfully Convicted'


Well, this reporter had too good an opinion of Knox:

Olivia Truffaut-Wong wrote:
[...] Whatever the reason, it seems unlikely that we will hear Knox speak about the documentary before its premiere on Sept. 30. After that, who knows?
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I've been informed that someone over at IIP has confirmed that producer Stephen Morse was in perugia with pro-knox advocates...

Pat
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

pataz1 wrote:
It seems like Bruce Fisher should be given writing credit on the new documentary... since the documentary and Morse's comments seem surprisingly close to a post Fisher wrote just before the trio of filmmakers arrived in Perugia to start their project:

https://aklwei.wordpress.com/2016/09/29 ... -campaign/

Pat


Good post. Its Fischer btw!

Its very important to see that there were two Knoxes: Daffy Knox and Dark Knox. Daffy Knox put herself out in 2008 to the frustration of her lawyers (she is not famous for shutting up, though they publicly asked her to). We saw her all through trial. Daffy incidents happened once a week. The "all you need is love" teeshirt was part of that, her vibrator explanation the same. On the whole Sollecito couldnt stand this Knox a bit. See here:

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php ... rs_and_ak/

At end of trial we saw Daffy Knox for the last time and Dark Knox was wheeled out. Daffy Knox never cried; Dark Knox (reflected in hair and clothing) cried all the time. She made long highly emotional pleas (not under cross examination) at the start and end of the Hellmann appeal - which of course heard almost nothing of the 2009 prosecution case.

Dark Knox continued to get herself in front of the media. The number of times she did this (with help from eg Girlanda) was in the several dozens at least. There were so many we had to pick & choose postings on TJMK.

Edited to add: There WAS one single time in 2009 when Daffy Knox was pushed aside and Dark Knox suddenly roared out. It hurt Knox a lot. See here.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tj ... e_in_ital/

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tj ... a_real_fl/

Of course Fischer & The Crackpots saw none of this.


Last edited by Fast Pete on Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline hugo


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:09 pm   Post subject: Re: NETFLIX CIRCLES-ZENN DIAGRAM NEEDED   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, hugo, it was Morse who hooked up with van Sant...


Yes, it was (and spilt a glass of wine over him). Sheer brain-fade on my part, I didn't notice I'd typed 'Blackhurst' again when I meant 'Morse'.

Quote:
Sure, Preston, Spezi were involved. But who brought them in? The Monster Of Florence crowd? When you see the media/power elite links, it becomes clear.


Quite how Preston got drawn in by Spezi's gang to run interference for them, I don't know.

Quote:
I'm sure there were a few credits I missed at the end as every one rushed for the exits :)


I gather from mortytoad, posting elsewhere, that Madison duly gets a mention.
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Offline hugo


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
malvern wrote:
Thanks Ergon, more to be revealed I'm sure. I read a tweet post from one of the Filmmakers thanking a Guilia, wondering if its the IIP friend and translator.


Might be, malvern, though it might be Bongiorno. I'm not sure how much of a translator Giufuliafa is considering where she used Google in one instance and plagiarized us many others (side by side comparisons posted on twitter).


I assume it's Giulia Alagna, the fixer / interpreter in Italy for the Knox-Mellas camp, who also did all Burleigh's research and interviews and translations for her. It's likely the same service was provided to Blackhurst and McGinn, seeing they're FOA (as they clearly are). Giufuliafa is an American called Julia Smith, I think.

(Bongiorno isn't interested in Knox. And she'd charge for her time and the likes of Rod Blackhurst couldn't afford it.)


Last edited by hugo on Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

hugo wrote:
Giufuliafa is an American called Julia Smith, I think.


A Julia Smith sends out a lot of tweets. All of them barking mad. This start of an implosion is bothering her.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:24 pm   Post subject: MEREDITH KERCHER'S RIGHT TO PRIVACY   

Netflix's Knox documentary had a few seconds of video of Meredith Kercher, screen shots here. They were taken by Knox without Meredith's permission. US law allows photographers to take pictures of people in public places, though publishing them might be a little more problematical. What ever.

Sad to see what was lost.


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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:25 pm   Post subject: Re: NETFLIX CIRCLES-ZENN DIAGRAM NEEDED   

hugo wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Hi, hugo, it was Morse who hooked up with van Sant...


Yes, it was (and spilt a glass of wine over him). Sheer brain-fade on my part, I didn't notice I'd typed 'Blackhurst' again when I meant 'Morse'.

Quote:
Sure, Preston, Spezi were involved. But who brought them in? The Monster Of Florence crowd? When you see the media/power elite links, it becomes clear.


Quite how Preston got drawn in by Spezi's gang to run interference for them, I don't know.

Quote:
I'm sure there were a few credits I missed at the end as every one rushed for the exits :)


I gather from mortytoad, posting elsewhere, that Madison duly gets a mention.


What a web. Build a running masterlist of names (or flowchart) someone please?
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

hugo wrote:
Ergon wrote:
malvern wrote:
Thanks Ergon, more to be revealed I'm sure. I read a tweet post from one of the Filmmakers thanking a Guilia, wondering if its the IIP friend and translator.


Might be, malvern, though it might be Bongiorno. I'm not sure how much of a translator Giufuliafa is considering where she used Google in one instance and plagiarized us many others (side by side comparisons posted on twitter).


I assume it's Giulia Alagna, the fixer / interpreter in Italy for the Knox-Mellas camp, who also did all Burleigh's research and interviews and translations for her. It's likely the same service was provided to Blackhurst and McGinn, seeing they're FOA (as they clearly are). Giufuliafa is an American called Julia Smith, I think.

(Bongiorno isn't interested in Knox. And she'd charge for her time and the likes of Rod Blackhurst couldn't afford it.)


Giulia Alagna it is who also barged into Nara Capezzali's home with Paul Ciolino of the CBS.

Yes, I saw Mad Pax and Joe Starr in the credits, missed others.

I imagine there will be many more FOA..
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
Giulia Alagna it is who also barged into Nara Capezzali's home with Paul Ciolino of the CBS.


See her here.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php ... _credible/
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Offline hugo


Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:20 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:43 pm   Post subject: Re: EARLY REPORTING ON THE CASE   

Ergon wrote:
'Amanda Knox Has A Right To Protest Her Innocence'
By Polly Dunbar
28 Sep 2016 12:51

Quote:
On the evening of November 3, 2007, I was sent to Perugia to report on Meredith's murder for the newspaper I worked for. Her body had been found earlier that day (?)..
...I worked with Nick Pisa, a British reporter based in Italy who went on to cover the case so extensively that he features as an expert in the Netflix documentary, Amanda Knox. We roamed around the city's bars and cafes, speaking to people who'd known Meredith, all of whom described her as sociable, sweet, clever and conscientious.

Then something happened which I've thought about countless times since. An Italian journalist told us the police already had a suspect: 'the American housemate', as they called Knox. How could they have reached such a dramatic conclusion just a day after finding Meredith's body?..

..Despite her acquittal in 2011 – and second, definitive exoneration by the Italian Supreme Court last year - there are many people who still believe Amanda Knox is guilty. Despite her release from prison after serving four years, she'll never really be free. That's why, although I don't know if her participation in the documentary will change the minds of anyone determined to believe she's a cold-blooded murderer, I can understand her wanting to try.

This article from a reporter who arrived Perugia November 03? doesn't clearly say when the police suspected Knox.


It's a thick journo being faux-naive. This was the first murder in Perugia for about twenty years -- a sensation. The dovecote was all a-flutter. And you know Mach's rule: 'In Italy everybody leaks.' It only takes one cop to tell one journo, 'The American girl, she's acting strange, they're not too sure about her' -- not that anyone then believed she could be the killer, but everyone who saw her that day found her a bit 'off', just as today's commenters on the Daily Mail piece about her GMA interview find her a bit 'off', because frankly she is a bit 'off' -- and suddenly you've got a hot rumour going round the press room.

Quote:
But, assuming it was November 02, here's an omission by the documentary. It underplays the staged break in, (and lies about showering in the bloody bathroom) overplays Mignini's "Sherlock Holmesian hunches" about "only a woman would cover the body", when Mignini clearly meant he suspected an inside job. The other room mates had alibis too..


The way it works is, they knew that Mignini's quilt theory, which had next to no bearing on the case brought to court, could be made to sound wacky, so they asked him about it to get the quotes they wanted. Mignini should have known better than to give the interview, considering the readily discoverable allegiance of the people trying to make a fool of him, but there you go.
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Offline hugo


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:

Giulia Alagna it is who also barged into Nara Capezzali's home with Paul Ciolino of the CBS.



Yep, her again. I'd like to see a documentary where percentage players like her and Ciolino and Burleigh and Blackhurst are made to answer a few questions about their exact terms of hiring and employment.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:03 am   Post subject: Re: NETFLIX CIRCLES-ZENN DIAGRAM NEEDED   

hugo wrote:
Quite how Preston got drawn in by Spezi's gang to run interference for them, I don't know.

Preston moved to Tuscany in 2000 with his family. Mario Spezi showed up on his doorstep one day, along with half the research notes of the late British Crime writer Magdalen Nabb
who wrote the "Marshal Guarnaccia" series, including The Monster Of Florence (1996)

Her work was credited by Spezi in the Italian edition but Preston ignored in the English. Whoever does make a movie eventually will have to talk to her son, who looks after her estate :)
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Rumpole wrote:
Knox interviewed on Good Morning America, advertising the doc (one needs to pretend to be in the US, at least didn't work for me before turning on Anonymox):

Amanda Knox Speaks Out on New Netflix Documentary, Being 'Wrongfully Convicted'


Everybody outside the US can now watch the GMA video here: http://abcnews.go.com/US/amanda-knox-sp ... d=42421378

Agree with hugo that she seems a bit 'off' (as usual): wooden posture, crooked smile, cold, unfeeling eyes... One commenter under the DM article suggested she may have been on opiates. I'm sure she practiced her lines about "exonerees" to try and be more likable. "Look at me, I'm good, I'm good!" Such a "model citizen", just like her Italian "boyfriend" of five days ...
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:53 am   Post subject: Re: EARLY REPORTING ON THE CASE   

hugo wrote:
The way it works is, they knew that Mignini's quilt theory, which had next to no bearing on the case brought to court, could be made to sound wacky, so they asked him about it to get the quotes they wanted. Mignini should have known better than to give the interview, considering the readily discoverable allegiance of the people trying to make a fool of him, but there you go.


He was conned. Bait and switch. Mette Heidi told him it was her production and he checked, found a very trustworthy Danish documentary maker, gave it a go. (We have in the works an open letter to her on this.)

He's talked before and in the English version been conned. Burleigh, Linda Byron, Candace Dempsey... See these:

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tj ... ew_record/

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tj ... _should_1/

His success rate in ITALIAN media interviews is high. He is in demand. The MOF case and this have left him riding very high. So he doesnt like the whacks, but he shrugs.

Massei made something of the quilt theory of course, gave the pair 5 years off.
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Offline zinnia


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Boy is AK playing it up. She's more of an actress than a writer. The trailer for the film... showing if she did and if she didn't is such a ploy. Congratulations on making more money off your murder of Meredith, asshole. Guess there is not that much else that you are good at and at 30, money is necessary to continue because your writing career is bleak at best.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

hugo wrote:
Ergon wrote:

Giulia Alagna it is who also barged into Nara Capezzali's home with Paul Ciolino of the CBS.



Yep, her again. I'd like to see a documentary where percentage players like her and Ciolino and Burleigh and Blackhurst are made to answer a few questions about their exact terms of hiring and employment.


Was it Giulia who defended Amanda's overspending on truffle pasta? I thought Robin was a little more neutral this time. Amanda seemed caught off guard with the question about Meredith's family. Her strange response about we have an obligation to consider a person's innocence or something like that. Nervous licking her lips at that point reminded me of of what Eyes for Lies observed. In the end blaming Mignini for Meredith being forgotten was the biggest laugh but consistent with what we expect from her.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:20 am   Post subject: SPEAKING OF ZENN DIAGRAMS   

There was a lot of activity around IIP in October 2011, related to Wikipedia editing, co-admin Sarah's cheat sheet for editing Wikipedia (use different names than what you use when commenting on the case she said), the Sfarzo promotions, the whole shebang as the PR machine moved into gear to promote K + S's books. Around the time Blackhurst popped up, oddly enough. Coincidence maybe, except he referenced Nina Burleigh and seemed to be channelling Injustice In Perugia talking points.
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Offline hugo


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:37 am   Post subject: Re: EARLY REPORTING ON THE CASE   

Fast Pete wrote:

He was conned. Bait and switch. Mette Heidi told him it was her production and he checked, found a very trustworthy Danish documentary maker, gave it a go. (We have in the works an open letter to her on this.)


I suppose Mette Heide served as an effective cut-out, with no connection to the Americans that would be visible in advance. Yes, that could work. And he was probably told that the film was about Meredith Kercher rather than Amanda Knox.

You do have to watch out for that kind of thing, though. The British Channel 4 satire show Brass Eye got a raft of celebrities to say ridiculous things on camera about paedophiles ('Paedophiles share over 90 per cent of their DNA with crabs. That's not possible, but it's a fact.' 'And I'm talking Nonce Sense!') because they believed they were taking part in a serious public-awareness film for the BBC. The makers enlisted someone at the BBC so they could use BBC notepaper and did the initial meets with celebrities in a BBC office. By the time the insane scripts were revealed, the Milgram Effect had kicked in and the victims just went along with it. The victims only met the respectable-seeming production staff and were unaware of the actual writer and presenter, Chris Morris, whom they would have known from TV as a satirist.


Quote:
Massei made something of the quilt theory of course, gave the pair 5 years off.


True, the 'sign of pieta' worked to Knox's advantage if anything.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:38 pm   Post subject: GOOD MORNING AMERICA   

My comment on the ABC News GMA Website http://abcnews.go.com/US/amanda-knox-sp ... d=42421378

"The documentary was made by filmmakers who claim 'not to have strong opinions of guilt or innocence either way' yet hide their advocacy for Knox since 2011. For those looking to the facts of the case, as opposed to a biased documentary, go to the Murder of Meredith Kercher website http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page and make up your own mind."
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:06 pm   Post subject: Re: EARLY REPORTING ON THE CASE   

hugo wrote:
Fast Pete wrote:

He was conned. Bait and switch. Mette Heidi told him it was her production and he checked, found a very trustworthy Danish documentary maker, gave it a go. (We have in the works an open letter to her on this.)


I suppose Mette Heide served as an effective cut-out, with no connection to the Americans that would be visible in advance. Yes, that could work. And he was probably told that the film was about Meredith Kercher rather than Amanda Knox.

You do have to watch out for that kind of thing, though. The British Channel 4 satire show Brass Eye got a raft of celebrities to say ridiculous things on camera about paedophiles ('Paedophiles share over 90 per cent of their DNA with crabs. That's not possible, but it's a fact.' 'And I'm talking Nonce Sense!') because they believed they were taking part in a serious public-awareness film for the BBC. The makers enlisted someone at the BBC so they could use BBC notepaper and did the initial meets with celebrities in a BBC office. By the time the insane scripts were revealed, the Milgram Effect had kicked in and the victims just went along with it. The victims only met the respectable-seeming production staff and were unaware of the actual writer and presenter, Chris Morris, whom they would have known from TV as a satirist.


But I'm suggesting Heide was set up, or something - had she stuck to what she was promising, GM would not have been set up, and somehow the steering wheel was snatched from her. We dont yet know how or why but an open letter may be a way to get a statement out of her.

BTW I asked our friends how Mignini is interviewed in Italy, what are the questions, the audience, the level of respect. I was told that he is at a peak of respect for having got both the MOF and Meredith cases right. Also this:

Quote:
Usually journalists who interview magistrates are specialized in judicial matters and dealing with court documents. I can't imagine an Italian journalist asking a judge about whether he is religious, or "what would you say if they were innocent". These questions are idiotic to Italian audience.


I just checked with Danish friends too and "gotcha" games are not big in their culture.
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

malvern wrote:
I thought Robin was a little more neutral this time.


Not at all surprising, considering the version of the handholding interview Italy saw last time.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tj ... self_pity/

Complete with chipmunk.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I'm laughing about the chipmunk version, ouch Robin wisely learned her lesson. I just saw a quote where Sollecito questions Amanda's long visit to the cottage in the morning, returning all agitated. Is this actually in the film as the tweet suggested? Seems like he may not want to completely close that option that she went out. Still hinting her lengthy time at the cottage in the morning was questionable. Did anyone see this in the film or take note. A dig to Knox going over the heads of the fan filmmakers ?
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Offline Hennesy


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Something about troubled people is that as years go by, their inner turmoil starts showing on their face, and that's what I think is happening to Amanda. She doesn't sound sincere at all, never did, but now she looks like a troubled person who is on a path to self-destruction. When she is asked questions about the Kerchers, her answers are always diabolic. I'll be surprised if 10-20 years from now she will have a normal happy life.
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Offline hugo


Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:20 pm

Posts: 290

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:48 pm   Post subject: Re: EARLY REPORTING ON THE CASE   

Fast Pete wrote:

But I'm suggesting Heide was set up, or something - had she stuck to what she was promising, GM would not have been set up, and somehow the steering wheel was snatched from her. We dont yet know how or why but an open letter may be a way to get a statement out of her.

BTW I asked our friends how Mignini is interviewed in Italy, what are the questions, the audience, the level of respect. I was told that he is at a peak of respect for having got both the MOF and Meredith cases right. Also this:

Quote:
Usually journalists who interview magistrates are specialized in judicial matters and dealing with court documents. I can't imagine an Italian journalist asking a judge about whether he is religious, or "what would you say if they were innocent". These questions are idiotic to Italian audience.


I just checked with Danish friends too and "gotcha" games are not big in their culture.



I take it you're reflecting Dr Mignini's view that Heide seemed OK, but that's how they work. Flattery and deception of interviewees to gain interviews that wouldn't otherwise be given is absolutely standard practice. Of course in some investigative documentaries, the use of 'fronts' and deception may be legitimate, but the method is used all the time in less legitimate circumstances anyway. (Brass Eye did it for supposed comedy purposes for years, always using the same trick of pretending to be the BBC.) Dr Mignini, having been stung before, would probably not talk to Knox fanboys -- if he knew they were Knox fanboys -- so they set up a front operation. The same may apply to Nick Pisa. Not that you'd have to work very hard to make Nick Pisa look bad, but he'd be wary of Stephen Morse, who rather hysterically confronted him in Perugia, so he just wasn't allowed to know that that was who he was dealing with.

And Heide, as the front or cut-out, would not necessarily have to know what kind of deal she was really taking part in, and she wouldn't have control of the final edit. She was just hired to deliver certain footage, and the fanboys would take it (and manipulate it) from there.

Still, one would really want to know exactly what communications Dr Mignini received beforehand, and from whom, and one would want to know who showed up on the day to shoot the interview, and what they said, and who was asking the questions, and what questions they asked. The questions would, as always, be intended to elicit answers to fit with a pre-existing script. This is the thing people tend not to realise when dealing with nice, flattering documentary makers. They are not your friends. They are not your friends.

I'm just glad that the Kercher family blanked all approaches and said nothing.
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:54 am   Post subject: Re: EARLY REPORTING ON THE CASE   

hugo wrote:
Fast Pete wrote:

But I'm suggesting Heide was set up, or something - had she stuck to what she was promising, GM would not have been set up, and somehow the steering wheel was snatched from her. We dont yet know how or why but an open letter may be a way to get a statement out of her.

BTW I asked our friends how Mignini is interviewed in Italy, what are the questions, the audience, the level of respect. I was told that he is at a peak of respect for having got both the MOF and Meredith cases right. Also this:

Quote:
Usually journalists who interview magistrates are specialized in judicial matters and dealing with court documents. I can't imagine an Italian journalist asking a judge about whether he is religious, or "what would you say if they were innocent". These questions are idiotic to Italian audience.


I just checked with Danish friends too and "gotcha" games are not big in their culture.



I take it you're reflecting Dr Mignini's view that Heide seemed OK, but that's how they work. Flattery and deception of interviewees to gain interviews that wouldn't otherwise be given is absolutely standard practice. Of course in some investigative documentaries, the use of 'fronts' and deception may be legitimate, but the method is used all the time in less legitimate circumstances anyway. (Brass Eye did it for supposed comedy purposes for years, always using the same trick of pretending to be the BBC.) Dr Mignini, having been stung before, would probably not talk to Knox fanboys -- if he knew they were Knox fanboys -- so they set up a front operation. The same may apply to Nick Pisa. Not that you'd have to work very hard to make Nick Pisa look bad, but he'd be wary of Stephen Morse, who rather hysterically confronted him in Perugia, so he just wasn't allowed to know that that was who he was dealing with.

And Heide, as the front or cut-out, would not necessarily have to know what kind of deal she was really taking part in, and she wouldn't have control of the final edit. She was just hired to deliver certain footage, and the fanboys would take it (and manipulate it) from there.

Still, one would really want to know exactly what communications Dr Mignini received beforehand, and from whom, and one would want to know who showed up on the day to shoot the interview, and what they said, and who was asking the questions, and what questions they asked. The questions would, as always, be intended to elicit answers to fit with a pre-existing script. This is the thing people tend not to realise when dealing with nice, flattering documentary makers. They are not your friends. They are not your friends.

I'm just glad that the Kercher family blanked all approaches and said nothing.


Sure thing. Heide's past works seem very straight, they are on YouTube, but she was with the team in Toronto pushing this version hard. What is done is done.

Its done us a favor in the senses that (1) it is easy to take down, the "mistakes" are extremely amateur; (2) there's a big readership now. Netflix ran into a lot of hostile fact checking when Avery came out and we in NYC could see Netflix being bashed on the financial channels for weeks. I posted how the stock has sunk since then. The networks regard it as a foe and suspect it lies a lot about its "ratings" for which there is no independent way to check. So expect some fact-checking soon. :-)

Theres an article, I think in the Mirror, where the Kerchers explain why they didnt give any help.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:30 am   Post subject: HER NAME WAS MEREDITH KERCHER   

Posted on Twitter


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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

According to this report, Greg Hampikian admits he sent his tests to the "independent lab" and they replicated his tests:
http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/boise-st ... /328108762

Pat
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Offline jape


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

pataz1 wrote:
According to this report, Greg Hampikian admits he sent his tests to the "independent lab" and they replicated his tests:
http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/boise-st ... /328108762

Pat


No detail and a load of bullshit, not that I would be at all surprised if he had notified C&V of his experiment with coke cans and knives. In fact we can be pretty sure that there was some direct communication and that basically this is what this article is hinting at with some prompting from the braggart.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:56 am   Post subject: METTE HEIDE PLUS PICTURES   

We knew of the Netflix documentary since April METTE HEIDE

through this article in Screen Daily
Quote:
Amanda Knox feature among new Danish docs

13 April, 2016 | By Wendy Mitchell


EXCLUSIVE: Netflix to launch US-Danish documentary Knox in autumn;

Plus pictures

Mette Heide, who founded plus pictures in 2008, is working with American directors Brian McGinn and Rod Blackhurst on Knox, which will be presented by Netflix.

The feature doc has been in the works since 2011 and promises exclusive access to Amanda Knox [pictured], her Italian ex-boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito; prosecutor Giuliano Mignini; and Daily Mail reporter Nick Pisa. Knox was interviewed by the filmmakers in 2014, three years after being released from prison.

“It explores the human impact of the trial,” Heide told Screen. “It is ‘True Crime 2.0,’ it explores the human side of true crime, and how a case can explode and develop because people want to know more. It will explore the personal impact of all the people involved, and it will reflect why the case became the trial of the century.”

Netflix is planning an autumn 2016 launch for the 90-minute film, but the film could show up at a festival prior to that. That film has had Danish Film Institute backing from the earliest stages. Matthew Hamachek (Cartel Land) edits.

Oddly, Morse wasn't listed as producer until this August, when alarm bells went off :)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:36 am   Post subject: GREG HAMPIKIAN NEWS   

jape wrote:
pataz1 wrote:
According to this report, Greg Hampikian admits he sent his tests to the "independent lab" and they replicated his tests:
http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/boise-st ... /328108762

Pat


No detail and a load of bullshit, not that I would be at all surprised if he had notified C&V of his experiment with coke cans and knives. In fact we can be pretty sure that there was some direct communication and that basically this is what this article is hinting at with some prompting from the braggart.

He's been braggarting about that since 2011, jape, pataz1.
GREG HAMPIKIAN NEWS
Idaho Innocence Project

Quote:
What makes us unique
We are the only Innocence Project that is directed by a forensic genetics expert (Dr. Greg Hampikian). Part of our unique mission is assisting other projects across the United States and abroad on DNA issues. Since 2005, Dr. Hampikian has helped start Innocence Projects in Ireland and France, and established the International Innocence program which reviews DNA cases outside the United States.

By: Kathleen Tuck Published 2:09 pm / May 11, 2011
Hampikian, Idaho Innocence Project at Center of Amanda Knox Appeal

Quote:
A high-profile international murder case is getting a second look by authorities in Italy after a team of experts, including Boise State’s Greg Hampikian (left) and the Idaho Innocence Project (IIP), disputed the DNA evidence against Amanda Knox and her codefendant Raffaele Sollecito.

Knox, the American student tried and convicted of killing her roommate while studying abroad in Perugia, Italy, in 2007 currently is appealing her conviction with assistance from Hampikian and the IIP. Hampikian, a forensic DNA expert and professor of biology and criminal justice, played a key role in the analysis of DNA that is at the center of the appeal.

His take on the DNA evidence: It points to Rudy Guede, not Knox. Guede, whose DNA was found on the victim’s body, was convicted of the murder in a separate trial.

“The one piece of evidence that tied Amanda Knox to this case is a kitchen knife with such a low level of the victim’s DNA on it – and no trace of blood – that it probably represents casual or unintended transfer,” Hampikian said. “You have to look at all the evidence, and it clearly points to Rudy Guede. He is the only one identified by DNA recovered right after the murder, from the victim’s body and her possessions. Amanda Knox’s DNA is nowhere in the room where the murder occurred.”


Researcher Reveals New Way to Safeguard DNA Samples
By: Sherry Squires Published 10:57 am / April 29, 2013
Quote:
DNA evidence is invisible and remarkably easy to transfer, making it possible for a sample to be spilled or even planted on a piece of evidence.

Boise State University professor Greg Hampikian is known internationally for his work in DNA forensics, and he has developed a solution that permanently marks DNA samples to prevent contamination. Hampikian has used nullomers, the smallest DNA sequences that are absent from nature, to create the DNA bar code.

He has been working on the invention for more than a decade and recently demonstrated its results for the first time in his Boise State lab. His research will be published by The Journal of Forensic and Legal Medicine. The peer-reviewed results are available pre-publication at http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 8X1300022X


Abdelkrim Alileche and Greg Hampikian
By: Kathleen Tuck Published 7:27 am / September 23, 2013
Quote:
Abdelkrim Alileche and Greg Hampikian, Department of Biological Sciences, have been awarded a $100,000 Elsa U. Pardee Foundation cancer research grant to develop anticancer drugs from the small proteins they study called Nullomer Peptides. Nullomer Peptides are the smallest proteins not found in nature. They were discovered through a collaboration with Tim Andersen, chair of the Department of Computer Science, by searching all publicly available databases of known protein sequences.

“The idea is that Mother Nature has been running the world’s longest experiment, called ‘life on earth.’ After 3.5 billion years, absent or rare sequences of DNA and protein may have been selected against, and that makes them interesting in terms of cancer and microbe killing potential,” Hampikian said. Boise State University has applied for patents on 198 of the Nullomer Peptides. Hampikian also has been awarded a separate $50,000 by the Idaho Higher Education Research Council (HERC) award to pursue commercialization.

It was these unrelated patents that were used by BSU to deny Andrea Vogt's FOIA requests, to the extent he was stove piping his research to the defense lawyers. (Not sure it actually was communicated directly to C & V).

And here's another broadcast December 16, 2011Beyond the Yellow Tape
Summary:DNA Expert Greg Hampikian discusses Amanda Knox- 12/16 Show Recap

Posted on January 5, 2012 by behindtheyellowtape
Quote:
We are joined today by Dr. Greg Hampikian, who will discuss his role in the exoneration of Amanda Knox. Dr. Hampikian is a professor at Boise State University. He is also the director of the Idaho Innocence Project. DNA in general is defined and dissected by Hampikian as well.
◾Dr. Hampikian is introduced, where he gives us a brief overview of the beginning of the Amanda Knox case. (1:45)
◾Dr. Hampikian goes on to discuss the evidence processing videos he watched and explained the importance of this in regards to DNA. (4:15)
◾DNA I Dr. Hampikian’s work is detailed. His work has helped exonerate ten people including Amanda Knox. (6:36)
◾The validity of DNA on the knife in evidence is explained by Dr. Hampikian. (6:10)
◾A key piece of evidence collected has no video recording documented, or photographed. (10:20)
◾Dr. Hampikian’s involvement in the Amanda Knox case. (12:10)


ETA, from Pat's link:
Quote:
The research done by Hampikian was relayed to an Italian lab that was appointed by the judge in the retrial of Knox, and that team replicated Hampikian's work.
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:25 pm   Post subject: Re: GREG HAMPIKIAN NEWS   

Ergon wrote:
It was these unrelated patents that were used by BSU to deny Andrea Vogt's FOIA requests, to the extent he was stove piping his research to the defense lawyers. (Not sure it actually was communicated directly to C & V).


No patent roadblock on the road to the defence headquarters, then.

He must trust them a lot. Those patents are his future.

Or, alternatively, he has no reason to distrust them (there could be several ;) scenarios for this).
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Drive frazzling

For computers, besides dropping laptops on the floor (physical damage to the hard drive), there’s also the possibility of the disc being affected by magnets. As one handbook puts it, in a long checklist of what to do when seizing computers:

Quote:
“Keep all media, including the computer, away from magnets, radio transmitters and other potentially damaging elements.”

— Tony Cook, Steve Hibbitt and Mick Hill,
Blackstone's Crime Investigators' Handbook, 2nd edition, (2016)
[Oxford University Press, 2016], [7.8.1.2] (p 191) Capture [of digital evidence]: Checklist - Computer seizure.
ISBN 9780198753605


Although, police officers in the ordinary course of their duties knowing what “other potentially damaging elements” might be in an electromagnetic sense could be a bit of an ask.



And mobile phones are really mobile computers too nowadays:

Quote:
“Seal the device in a 'Faraday bag'”

— [7.8.1.2] (p 190) Capture [of digital evidence]: Checklist - Mobile phone seizure.



Switched-off phones wouldn’t pose a danger to laptop hard drives, through their antenna signal strength.

Schrödinger’s cat switching on Raffaele’s phone at six in the morning doesn’t help matters.
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The “Is Amanda Knox Guilty?” documentary was on local TV last night (ABC2, the national broadcaster, 30-Sep-2016).

Balding’s review of the bra-clasp DNA evidence was pretty damning (“extremely strong”, I think he said; twice), and that was factoring in the contamination hypothesis, too.


= = =
Ann Bremner didn’t come across as nice. And some of what she said was obviously slick (e.g., “no physical evidence”). And you could see she was comparing herself to Amanda in some way(s).

Also, it was an odd editorial/directorial choice interviewing her somewhere that was not her office. They might as well have interviewed her at a bus stop.
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon

Great post on Hampikian above w/links. The guys in charge here should give you a promotion for that.

Does it say anywhere via your links that Hampikian went to Rome? There seems to be some evidence that he did. The investigation into Vecchietti is under close wraps but it will all go public one day.
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Catnip wrote:
Also, it was an odd editorial/directorial choice interviewing her somewhere that was not her office. They might as well have interviewed her at a bus stop.


Depends on when it was. She was "between offices" at one point.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:00 pm   Post subject: HAMPIKIAN PIC   

Fast Pete wrote:
Ergon

Great post on Hampikian above w/links. The guys in charge here should give you a promotion for that.

Does it say anywhere via your links that Hampikian went to Rome? There seems to be some evidence that he did. The investigation into Vecchietti is under close wraps but it will all go public one day.

Don't know he was in Rome Peter, but in his latest interview he does say he approached them directly. Definitely was in Perugia that I know of, during the Appeals trial. So when he says he reviewed the DNA results I assume that would be in Vecchiotti's laboratory?


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Offline Rumpole


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Knox telling why she initially told the truth of her being in the house when the murder occurred, nothing new really but here it is (the 2nd video on the page):

Amanda Knox Reveals Why She Initially Lied About Where She Was When Meredith Kercher Was Killed

Or was this actually her 2nd or 3rd "truth"?

Same video also on ABC site here:

Amanda Knox on Life as an Exoneree


Last edited by Rumpole on Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:42 pm   Post subject: Re: HAMPIKIAN PIC   

Ergon wrote:
Fast Pete wrote:
Ergon

Great post on Hampikian above w/links. The guys in charge here should give you a promotion for that.

Does it say anywhere via your links that Hampikian went to Rome? There seems to be some evidence that he did. The investigation into Vecchietti is under close wraps but it will all go public one day.

Don't know he was in Rome Peter, but in his latest interview he does say he approached them directly. Definitely was in Perugia that I know of, during the Appeals trial. So when he says he reviewed the DNA results I assume that would be in Vecchiotti's laboratory?


Yes there I believe. I am totally amazed he let that out. C&V should have had NOTHING to do with anyone on the defense. But there were reports they were talking together. This is part of what is being investigated.

Andrea Vogt was trying to follow the paper trail between Hampikian and them at the Boise University end (I've driven through that campus) but as you mentioned above the university admin shut her out.

On TJMK there are about 10 posts on the DNA element of the Nencini appeal and we had a lot on the Sapienza and Carabinieri labs.

What sparked the closure of Vechiottis lab (by the head of the university - the same university where Giulia Bongiorno's father teaches, coincidence, coincidence) was the Carabinieri visit and the news report that they found the laboratory was filthy and seriously below par. From the Republicca link below.

Quote:
"autopsies at risk... the shutting down was necessary because of the rising of issues about the autopsy reports, that would be unreliable" because of the poor hygiene conditions.


In the Carabinieri report to the Nencini court it said some of this and had photographs of the fridge where the sample from the knife was being kept.

Vecchiotti said the sample was unprocessable (low DNA) so they went ahead and did it anyway.

Could dear ol' Catnip or someone translate these? Needed also for another TJMK post as the Netflix team set C&V up as gods. There are several photographs too.

http://roma.corriere.it/notizie/cronaca ... 8977.shtml

http://roma.repubblica.it/cronaca/2015/ ... 108436364/

http://www.rainews.it/dl/rainews/artico ... fd2a4.html

http://www.lettera43.it/cronaca/cadaver ... 160703.htm

http://www.vnews24.it/2015/03/02/sapien ... idoi4-jpg/

http://m.dagospia.com/mortacci-l-obitor ... veri-95544

http://docplayer.it/2365045-Piano-di-em ... art-5.html
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Offline hugo


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:04 pm   Post subject: Re: HAMPIKIAN PIC   

Fast Pete wrote:


What sparked the closure of Vechiottis lab (by the head of the university - the same university where Giulia Bongiorno's father teaches, coincidence, coincidence) was the Carabinieri visit and the news report that they found the laboratory was filthy and seriously below par. From the Republicca link below.

Quote:
"autopsies at risk... the shutting down was necessary because of the rising of issues about the autopsy reports, that would be unreliable" because of the poor hygiene conditions.


In the Carabinieri report to the Nencini court it said some of this and had photographs of the fridge where the sample from the knife was being kept.

Vecchiotti said the sample was unprocessable (low DNA) so they went ahead and did it anyway.



I seem to recall Berti and Barni of the Carabinieri gave evidence that Carla Vecchiotti did not have a thermometer in her fridge. I don't have a thermometer in mine, but then I don't run a forensic lab and I don't keep DNA samples in the fridge for years.

And didn't the Carabinieri observe that anyone who ran a lab like Vecchiotti's better hadn't criticise other people's lab work? I wonder why Blackhurst and Heide didn't speak to the Carabinieri? (Actually I don't wonder at all.)

Interesting that even Greg Hampikian says he won't watch the Netflix doc because it's just a story told for entertainment purposes. Which makes him smarter than most of the reviewers.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:08 pm   Post subject: DNA EXPERTS LETTERS   

DNA Expert on the Amanda Knox Case
Salem-News.com
Jul-27-2011
Quote:
ROME) - The Independent DNA Experts review of the Kitchen Knife and the Bra Clasp evidence has been turned in and the first court date discussing the results was on July 25. Dr. Greg Hampikian is a DNA expert who co-authored an Open Letter on 19 Nov 2009 along with Dr. Elizabeth Johnson and 7 others:

Dan Krane, chief executive officer and chairman of the board of directors, Forensic Bioinformatics

Jason Gilder, systems engineer, Forensic Bioinformatics

Joy Halverson, DVM, director, Zoogen Services

Laurence D. Mueller, professor of ecology and evolutionary biology, University of California, Irvine

Marc Taylor, president, Technical Associates

Rick Staub, Ph.D., director of laboratory operations, Orchid Cellmark, Dallas, Texas

Simon Ford, Ph.D., Lexigen Science and Law Consultants)
The Conti-Vecchiotti DNA review report’s findings are very much in line with the Open Letter. The independent experts found the forensics flawed because international protocols were not followed, contamination and erroneous interpretation.

Dr. Hampikian is also the founder of the Idaho Innocence Project and an advisor for the defense.


Conti and Vecchiotti Report
Quote:
Conclusions (2)

Based on the considerations explained above, we are able to respond as follows to the inquiries posed at the assignment hearing:

“Having examined the record and conducted such technical investigations as shall be necessary, the Expert Panel shall ascertain:

1. whether it is possible, by means of a new technical analysis, to identify the DNA present on items 165b (bra clasp) and 36 (knife), and to determine the reliability of any such identification“

- The tests that we conducted to determine the presence of blood on item 36 (knife) and item 165B (bra clasps) yielded a negative result.

- The cytomorphological tests on the items did not reveal the presence of cellular material. Some samples of item 36 (knife), in particular sample “H”, present granules with a circular/hexagonal characteristic morphology with a cental radial structure. A more detailed microscopic study, together with the consultation of data in the literature, allowed us to ascertain that the structures in question are attributable to granules of starch, thus matter of a vegetable nature.

- The quantification of the extracts obtained from the samples obtained from item 36 (knife) and item 165B (bra clasps), conducted via Real Time PCR, did not reveal the presence of DNA.

- In view of the absence of DNA in the extracts that we obtained, with the agreement of the consultants for the parties, we did not proceed to the subsequent amplification step.

2. “if it is not possible to carry out a new technical analysis, shall evaluate, on the basis of the record, the degree of reliability of the genetic analysis performed by the Scientific Police on the aforementioned items, including with respect to possible contamination.“

Having examined the record and the relevant documents, we are able to report the following conclusions regarding the laboratory analyses performed on Item 36 (knife) and Item 165B (bra clasps):

ITEM 36 (KNIFE)

Relative to the genetic analysis performed on trace A (handle of the knife), we agree with the conclusion reached by the Technical Consultant regarding the attribution of the genetic profile obtained from these samples to Amanda Marie Knox.

Relative to trace B (blade of the knife) we find that the technical analyses performed are not reliable for the following reasons:

1. There does not exist evidence which scientifically confirms that trace B (blade of knife) is the product of blood.

2. The electrophoretic profiles exhibited reveal that the sample indicated by the letter B (blade of knife) was a Low Copy Number (LCN) sample, and, as such, all of the precautions indicated by the international scientific community should have been applied.

3. Taking into account that none of the recommendations of the international scientific community relative to the treatment of Low Copy Number (LCN) samples were followed, we do not accept the conclusions regarding the certain attribution of the profile found on trace B (blade of knife) to the victim Meredith Susanna Cara Kercher, since the genetic profile, as obtained, appears unreliable insofar as it is not supported by scientifically validated analysis;

4. International protocols of inspection, collection, and sampling were not followed;

5. It cannot be ruled out that the result obtained from sample B (blade of knife) derives from contamination in some phase of the collection and/or handling and/or analyses performed.

ITEM 165B (BRA CLASPS)

Relative to Item 165B (bra clasps), we find that the technical analysis is not reliable for the following reasons:

1. There does not exist evidence which scientifically confirms the presence of supposed flaking cells on the item;

2. There was an erroneous interpretation of the electrophoretic profile of the autosomic STRs;

3. There was an erroneous interpretation of the electrophoretic profile relative to the Y chromosome;

4. The international protocols for inspection, collection, and sampling of the item were not followed;

5. It cannot be ruled out that the results obtained derive from environmental contamination and/or contamination in some phase of the collection and/or handling of the item.

THE EXPERTS

Prof. Carla Vecchiotti

Prof. Stefano Conti


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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Sollecito also spoke to the media (BBC); scroll down to watch the video:

Amanda Knox Netflix documentary gets mixed reviews

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37517127

What the two don't realize, that they come across as unnatural and not very likable. I think the journalists who interview them notice that something is "off", too. They both look kind of skeptical. There's no warmth in Knox and Sollecito's eyes, no sincerity in their voices, but a lot of pent-up anger boiling under the surface. Knox has very tense smile; it's all "acted." As Mignini said long ago, she is very "crafty" (shrewd.) These interviews do more harm than good to their image, but, still, they don't want to disappear into the background and live their private lives. Wrong. Oh well, let them go down that path (of lies and deception.) The truth always comes out anyway. It may be years later, but eventually it will.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

They don't come across well. Amanda bristles when its suggested she needs to get her story out there still, I'm fine I'm cleared its about others now. Seconds later she has to admit some people think she's just trying to profit.
I'm fairly confidant the Kerchers are experiencing real joyous life events again , their core beliefs and values will guarantee that. So when Amanda justifies making the film knowing it will never end for them ( their punishment) its more about her life interrupted and stuck , so yes guermantes let her stay on that path.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:27 am   Post subject: BRUCE BUDOWLE DNA   

For all of Professor Greg Hampikian's grandstanding I always thought Bruce Budowle's 08 December 2010 letter had more of an impact on Conti and Vecchiotti's report.
Quote:
To whom it may concern:
I Bruce Budowle have prepared the following report upon request of Theodore Simon, Carlo Dalla Vedova, and Maria Del Grosso regarding the use and interpretation of DNA typing results obtained from a knife (item 28669-01-036) that was evidence in the case of Amanda Knox. I base my opinion and findings on my years of experience in the field of forensic human DNA analyses, presumptive test results, the electropherograms of DNA profiles (which provide some indication of the quantities of DNA obtained from the evidence), photographs of the knife, and general case information that has been translated into English. I have assumed that the information provided is accurate. However, I note and understand that the prosecution did not provide the standard operating procedures or the standard protocols, nor did the prosecution provide the sample handling protocols in the crime laboratory that performed the analyses, and the specific handling of samples in this case..(etc)

The report did cite Budowle more than two dozen times after all.

However, it still looks like Hampikian did the technical analyses while Budowle telegraphed the conclusions reached by C & V. Interesting also, Chris Halkides claiming on Huffington Post that Budowle offered to testify in court but was refused. I doubted that, when it already was well known those reports had been handed to the defense and through them to C & V.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Has anybody watched the new documentary series Unlocking the Truth, with Ryan Ferguson?

http://www.mtv.com/shows/unlocking-the-truth

He continues to praise Knox, and she was to appear briefly (in a video) in an episode of Aug.31,
available to watch online here: http://www.mtv.com/shows/unlocking-the- ... sode-guide

August 30, 2016

Ryan Ferguson Reveals How His Friendship with Amanda Knox Helped Him Move On [VIDEO]

Knox will appear on Ferguson's MTV series Unlocking the Truth, Wednesday [Aug.31], during a segment filmed at the Innocence Network Conference in San Antonio, Texas.

On Unlocking the Truth, Ferguson and Eva Nagao team up with the University of Chicago Law School's Exoneration Project to investigate three claims of false imprisonment.


http://www.people.com/article/ryan-ferg ... friendship
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Bruce Budowie does confirm it is Meredith's dna on the knife. However he believes it was from secondary transfer because it isn't blood. Did I get that right? If so Amanda or Raffaele must have somehow transferred some of meredith's saliva or skin cells by just living in close proximity. What are the chances for it to travel to his apartment ? I guess if you didn't wash your hands and unknowingly had her DNA from the cottage and then ran your fingers over the blade it could occur right?
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

guermantes wrote:
Has anybody watched the new documentary series Unlocking the Truth, with Ryan Ferguson?

http://www.mtv.com/shows/unlocking-the-truth

He continues to praise Knox, and she was to appear briefly (in a video) in an episode of Aug.31,
available to watch online here: http://www.mtv.com/shows/unlocking-the- ... sode-guide

August 30, 2016

Ryan Ferguson Reveals How His Friendship with Amanda Knox Helped Him Move On [VIDEO]

Knox will appear on Ferguson's MTV series Unlocking the Truth, Wednesday [Aug.31], during a segment filmed at the Innocence Network Conference in San Antonio, Texas.

On Unlocking the Truth, Ferguson and Eva Nagao team up with the University of Chicago Law School's Exoneration Project to investigate three claims of false imprisonment.


http://www.people.com/article/ryan-ferg ... friendship


I watched a segment with Ryan and other exonerees with Amanda sitting around a table. Worth a watch because Amanda interrupts Ryan and dominates the discussion .
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

malvern wrote:
Bruce Budowie does confirm it is Meredith's dna on the knife. However he believes it was from secondary transfer because it isn't blood. Did I get that right? If so Amanda or Raffaele must have somehow transferred some of meredith's saliva or skin cells by just living in close proximity. What are the chances for it to travel to his apartment ? I guess if you didn't wash your hands and unknowingly had her DNA from the cottage and then ran your fingers over the blade it could occur right?

Both Hellmann and Marasca Bruno allowed for the knife/DNA to have travelled back and forth as he was visiting Knox anyway, and "anything is possible".
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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Please like and retweet this tweet:

https://twitter.com/harryrag/status/782389119355944960

Thanks.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:59 am   Post subject: FROM EXPERT'S LETTERS TO KNOX'S LETTERS   

Amanda Knox letter tried to convince Italian court of her innocence
By Harry Alsop
03 Feb 2014
Quote:
- Ms Knox also wrote a letter to Meredith Kercher’s family.
- An eight-page letter written by Amanda Knox to an Italian appeals court during her retrial for the murder of Meredith Kercher has been released.
- I am not a murderer. I am not a rapist. I am not a thief or a plotter or an instigator. I did not kill Meredith or take part in her murder or have any prior knowledge of what occurred that night. I was not there and had nothing to do with it..

-NO FORENSIC EVIDENCE AGAINST ME
No physical evidence places me in Meredith’s bedroom, the scene of the crime, because I was not there and didn’t take part in the crime.
Meredith’s murderer left ample evidence of his presence in the brutal scenario: handprints, footprints, shoe prints in Meredith’s blood; DNA in her purse, on her clothing, in her body.
The prosecution has failed to explain how I could have participated in the aggression and murder – to have been the one to fatally wound Meredith – without leaving any genetic trace of myself..

-THE QUESTIONING WAS TORTURE
My interrogation was illegal and produced a false ‘confession’ that demonstrated my non-knowledge of the crime. .

- I DID NOT CARRY A KITCHEN KNIFE
I did not carry around Raffaele’s kitchen knife. The claim by the prosecution, crucial to their theory, is uncorroborated by any physical evidence or witness testimony..

- I DID NOT KNOW THE GUILTY MAN
I had no contact with Rudy Guede. Like many young people in Perugia, I had once crossed paths with Rudy Guede..

- I AM NOT A PSYCHOPATH
There is no short list to the malicious and unfounded slanders I have suffered over the course of this legal process.

In trial I have been called no less than: ‘Conniving; manipulating; man-eater; narcissist; enchantress; duplicitous; adulterer; drug addict; an explosive mix of drugs, sex and alcohol; dirty; witch; murderer; slanderer; demon; depraved; imposter; promiscuous; succubus; evil; dead inside; pervert; dissolute; psychopath; a wolf in sheep’s clothing; rapist; thief; reeking of sex; Judas; she-devil; Luciferina...’

If the prosecution truly had a case against me, there would be no need for these theatrics. There would be no need for smoke and mirrors to distract you from the lack of physical evidence...

The prosecutor and investigators were under tremendous pressure to solve the mystery of what happened to Meredith as soon as possible.

The local and international media was breathing down the necks of these detectives. Their reputations and careers were to be made or broken. In their haste, they made mistakes...

I found Knox's letter from two years back while looking for the DNA experts letters then realized: Funny how the experts opinions got reflected in the court decisions, and Knox's letter in the Netflix documentary. Like she was writing the script, once again.

Odd, that.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:06 am   Post subject: Re: HAMPIKIAN PIC   

Fast Pete wrote:
... translate ...


First ball off the bat.


Sapienza's dilapidated mortuary is sad reading.

If anyone's having breakfast etc, scroll by.



===============
Hidden Content: show
The Medico-Legal Institute of Sapienza University in Rome was closed down this morning.

For some time it has been known that unhygienic conditions were the norm in the Institute and the Rector of the University has decided today, in anticipation of NAS findings, to shut down the entire mortuary.

Sapienza’s Institute did not have adequate space to accommodate the large number pf bodies and quite often they had to be spread out along the corridors.

The hygiene rules were onerous and the building inadequate. It was for this reason that the Public Prosecutor’s Office had ordered a detailed report by NAS which would have presented their findings within a few weeks.

The Rector of the University, Eugenio Gaudio, has pre-empted the PPO’s expected closure of the Institute. The closure, explains Guadio, had been necessary to prevent the raising of legal questions as regards the autopsies being carried out, which would have risked the results being no longer reliable in future.

During the NAS inspections, even cadaver remains from 1990 had been found, a serious anomaly due to, as the mortuary attendants explained, the fact that no one had ever reclaimed the bodies. Another serious problem at the Sapienza Institute is the huge disorder that reigns inside the building, where, in point of fact, cadavers are to be found out in the corridors.

From <http://www.vnews24.it/2015/03/02/sapienza-cadaveri-chiusa-struttura/?refresh_ce>



= = =
Rome: bodies in the mortuary corridors, Medico-Legal Institute of Sapienza closed

The Rector’s decision anticipates the MOSSA by the Prosecutor’s Office which has been investigating conditions at the Medico-Legal Institute of Rome’s flagship university
by Giulio De Santis

ROME – The University of Sapienza’s Legal Medicine Institute has been closed for health reasons. The decision has been made by the university’s Rector, Eugenio Gaudio, who made the order before the Prosecutor’s Office could make a move. At Clodio Place the investigators, in fact, are expecting the filing of a report by NAS, where serious hygienic shortcomings by the management of the Institute are highlighted.

Unreliable autopsies?
The closure has been necessary to head off the raising of questions relating to future autopsy results that would have risked being unreliable. The problems discovered by the Carabinieri of the Health and Food Adulteration Unit – and noted to the university administration – relate to, in fact, the equipment, starting with the tables, intended for carrying out autopsies, which have deteriorated during the course of time. The oldest have been in the building since the early 1980s while those acquired more recently go back to ten years ago. Even the instruments used to examine the cadavers have deteriorated and should be replaced.

Cadavers in the corridors
During the inspections, remains of cadavers preserved since 1990 were found. An anomaly due to the fact that no one had ever reclaimed the bodies. The other problem raised by the doctors at the Institute and revealed by NAS is the disorder that reigns in the Institute, where it is possible to see cadavers in corridors due to the lack of space in which to store them. Sapienza has now promised to proceed with restoration works. There is lack of certainty though on the end point by which the Institute will become operative again. There is no compulsory time limit but the university has guaranteed a return to normality by the beginning of May.

Transferring the bodies
Contributing to the uncertainty are Sapienza’s empty coffers and the collection of funds is expected to be complicated. In the meantime, to try and minimise the impact of the closure, autopsies will be carried out at the Tor Vergata Institute directed by Professor Giovanni Arcudi. The bodies have already started to arrive in the last few days in the mortuary of that university and in some cases the work has been given to specialists from the Gemelli Polyclinic. A case file has been opened by the Prosecutor’s Office and assigned to Antonella Nespola who in October had already ordered the sequestration of the mortuary. The decision to close the Institute has been communicated to the Prosecutor’s Office, who is caught out by the choice.
1 March 2015 | 13:47

From <http://roma.corriere.it/notizie/cronaca/15_marzo_01/sapienza-chiuso-l-obitorio-carenze-igienico-sanitarie-d13ffdaa-c00e-11e4-9f09-63afc7c38977.shtml?refresh_ce-cp>


= = =
Rome, Medico-Legal Institute closed. The Public Prosecutor’s Office is investigating health conditions. The decision of the Sapienza University Rector Ettore Gaudio. Cadavers from 1990 found.

02 March 2015

Cadavers in the corridors because of lack of space for storing them, serious health issues in the management of the Institute. For this reason, Sapienza’s Medico-Legal Institute has been shut down for health reasons. The decision was made by the university’s Rector, Eugenio Gaudio, who made the order before the Prosecutor’s Office could make a move. At Clodio Place the investigators, in fact, are expecting the filing of a report by NAS, where serious hygienic shortcomings by the management of the Institute are highlighted. The closure had been necessary to pre-empt questions being raised about the risk of future autopsy results being unreliable. During the inspections, cadaver remains preserved from 1990 were found. An anomaly due to the fact that no one had ever claimed the bodies. The other problem raised by the doctors at the Institute and noted by NAS is the disorder that reigns in the Institute, where it is possible to see cadavers in the corridors because of the lack of storage space.

From <http://www.rainews.it/dl/rainews/articoli/Roma-chiuso-Istituto-di-Medicina-Legale-La-Procura-indaga-sulle-condizioni-igieniche-fd2855f4-acf1-45ec-8ea2-95d3eeffd2a4.html>

= = =
Cadavers in corridors, Medico-Legal Institute in Rome closed
Rector Eugenio Gaudio’s decision: «Autopsy results at risk».
01 March 2015

There were cadavers in the corridors due to lack of space, as well as serious health issues in the management of the building. For this reason the Medico-Legal Institute at Sapienza University in Rome has been closed for health reasons.

RECTOR’S DECISION. The decision had been taken by the unicersity’s Rector, Eugenio Gaudio, who made the order before the Public Prosecutor’s Office could act. At Clodio Place, the investigators, in fact, are expecting the filing of a NAS report, where serious hygiene problems in the management of the Institute are highlighted. The closure was necessary to forestall questions being raised concerning future autopsy results which would have been at risk of being unreliable.

REMAINS OF CADAVERS FROM 1990. Inspections revealed remains of cadavers preserved from 1990. An anomaly due to the fact that no one had ever reclaimed the bodies. The other problem raised by the doctors at the Institute and noted by NAS is the disorder that reigns in the Institute, where it is possible to see cadavers in the corridors because of lack of space to store them.

From <http://www.lettera43.it/cronaca/cadaveri-nei-corridoi-chiuso-a-roma-l-istituto-di-medicina-legale_43675160703.htm>



= = =

Sad corridors dimly lit. A room with refrigeration units from the 1980s, dozens of units occupied by the bodies of persons deceased by violent means and never recognised, never asked for, and, if foreigners, never repatriated. It’s here that, as many say, along the basement corridor it is even sadder: there’s no space inside and the cadavers are just left there, on trolleys, at times not even in mortuary bags. The smell, they say, is pungent and nauseating. To say nothing of the dissection tables and the equipment, or even the safety of the workers. Non-existent.

And so the Public Prosecutor’s Office launched an investigation by NAS, the Carabinieri of the Health and Food Adulteration Unit [nucleo antisofisticazione e sanità]. Eugenio Gaudio, Rector of Sapienza University — of which the Medico-Legal Institute is a part — and Domenico Alessio, Director-General of the Polyclinic at Umberto I University, have pre-empted likely legal orders deciding to shut down the building.

SAPIENZA MORTUARY

It received the latest body last Wednesday a little before midnight. The others — like that of the young man squashed on Friday night by a bus in Piazza Venezia and dying in San Giovanni Hospital — will all be, from Thursday onwards, taken to the Gemelli Polyclinic.

A truly disconcerting situation for the largest mortuary in the Capital, the Sapienza Medico-Legal Institute. Already by October month end Public Prosecutor Antonella Nespola had sequestered six operating theatres at the Umberto I University Polyclinic, which is close to the mortuary, and also placed the Medico-Legal Institute in her sights.

And «for possible contamination, likely compromised results, the building physically falling apart, cadavers in the corridors and inadequate equipment», they explain in the mortuary. «NAS inspected the mortuary when I was not even Rector» explains Eugenio Gaudio. «We are all hopeful that the restoration works will conclude as soon as possible: within two months».

MORTUARY

Eight years a scandal led to the lose of the operating theatre at Umberto I: not only were the health and safety conditions extremely bad (blood traces everywhere, building falling apart, a back and forth of funeral agency operators who were following the relatives of the deceased), but corneas were being stolen from the bodies, which in turn ended up having to be transferred from one place to another under armed guard. But today «we’re re-opening the Polyclinic dissection room» explains Gaudio. «I’ve put in an order for autopsy tables and new and modern equipment».

And even if the Rector highlights that the decision to close «had been taken in accord with the Health Director and Director-General of the Polyclinic, with all due care and authority» in the Public Prosecutor’s Office the news of the closure, which seems to have arrived with only 24 hours’ notice, has raised a storm. Chief Prosecutor Giuseppe Pignatone plays it down. But he also explains that today or at the latest tomorrow «there will be a meeting at the PPO with the top layers of management from the Polyclinic and Rector Eugenio Gaudio». And in the meantime, «for now, Gemelli will be asked to handle the immediate exigencies».



The funeral undertakers who tell of the scene from hell are describing «flies and bluebottles attracted by the odour, doors that don’t seal properly and when you go downstairs at the least you almost fall ill», as a source who works in the mortuary recalls. «But even on the first floor, where the forensic pathologists work, everything has remained stuck at 40 years ago. To say nothing of the place where the evidence is kept: all heaped up on each other, contaminated according to me unusable».


EUGENIO GAUDIO
Captain Dario Praturlon, NAS Commander in Rome who last September on delegation from the Public Prosecutor’s Office carried out an inspection, explains that «we only had to check if there were health and safety irregularities: and we had found lots of them. The employers — that is the Rector and the Polyclinic Health Director — are obliged to fix up the building. To give the workers a safe place to work. We found none of all this». The first criminal charges are expected quite soon, although relating to previous management.

From <http://m.dagospia.com/mortacci-l-obitorio-della-sapienza-chiude-per-eccesso-di-cadaveri-95544>
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Offline Catnip


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Location: Eora, de Sydenie, 34S-151E, Nuova Gallia del Sud, het nieuw-Hollandt, Terra Australis

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Update, a year after:

Umberto I University’s Polyclinic takes over management of Rome’s mortuary instead of Sapienza University, while the forensic pathology department is now overseen by the three relevant Public Prosecutor’s Offices (Rome, Tivoli and Civitavecchia).

[Corriere], 16 June 2016
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

Posts: 856

Location: New York

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:32 pm   Post subject: Re: FROM EXPERT'S LETTERS TO KNOX'S LETTERS   

Ergon wrote:
Amanda Knox letter tried to convince Italian court of her innocence
By Harry Alsop
03 Feb 2014
Quote:
- Ms Knox also wrote a letter to Meredith Kercher’s family.
- An eight-page letter written by Amanda Knox to an Italian appeals court during her retrial for the murder of Meredith Kercher has been released.
- I am not a murderer. I am not a rapist. I am not a thief or a plotter or an instigator. I did not kill Meredith or take part in her murder or have any prior knowledge of what occurred that night. I was not there and had nothing to do with it..

-NO FORENSIC EVIDENCE AGAINST ME
No physical evidence places me in Meredith’s bedroom, the scene of the crime, because I was not there and didn’t take part in the crime.
Meredith’s murderer left ample evidence of his presence in the brutal scenario: handprints, footprints, shoe prints in Meredith’s blood; DNA in her purse, on her clothing, in her body.
The prosecution has failed to explain how I could have participated in the aggression and murder – to have been the one to fatally wound Meredith – without leaving any genetic trace of myself..

-THE QUESTIONING WAS TORTURE
My interrogation was illegal and produced a false ‘confession’ that demonstrated my non-knowledge of the crime. .

- I DID NOT CARRY A KITCHEN KNIFE
I did not carry around Raffaele’s kitchen knife. The claim by the prosecution, crucial to their theory, is uncorroborated by any physical evidence or witness testimony..

- I DID NOT KNOW THE GUILTY MAN
I had no contact with Rudy Guede. Like many young people in Perugia, I had once crossed paths with Rudy Guede..

- I AM NOT A PSYCHOPATH
There is no short list to the malicious and unfounded slanders I have suffered over the course of this legal process.

In trial I have been called no less than: ‘Conniving; manipulating; man-eater; narcissist; enchantress; duplicitous; adulterer; drug addict; an explosive mix of drugs, sex and alcohol; dirty; witch; murderer; slanderer; demon; depraved; imposter; promiscuous; succubus; evil; dead inside; pervert; dissolute; psychopath; a wolf in sheep’s clothing; rapist; thief; reeking of sex; Judas; she-devil; Luciferina...’

If the prosecution truly had a case against me, there would be no need for these theatrics. There would be no need for smoke and mirrors to distract you from the lack of physical evidence...

The prosecutor and investigators were under tremendous pressure to solve the mystery of what happened to Meredith as soon as possible.

The local and international media was breathing down the necks of these detectives. Their reputations and careers were to be made or broken. In their haste, they made mistakes...

I found Knox's letter from two years back while looking for the DNA experts letters then realized: Funny how the experts opinions got reflected in the court decisions, and Knox's letter in the Netflix documentary. Like she was writing the script, once again.

Odd, that.


Verrrrry odd. You are right, there! How FinnMacCool rebutted it.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tj ... oxs_email/
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

Posts: 856

Location: New York

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

guermantes wrote:
Sollecito also spoke to the media (BBC); scroll down to watch the video:

Amanda Knox Netflix documentary gets mixed reviews

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37517127

What the two don't realize, that they come across as unnatural and not very likable. I think the journalists who interview them notice that something is "off", too. They both look kind of skeptical. There's no warmth in Knox and Sollecito's eyes, no sincerity in their voices, but a lot of pent-up anger boiling under the surface. Knox has very tense smile; it's all "staged." As Mignini said long ago, she is very "crafty" (shrewd.) These interviews do more harm than good to their image, but, still, they don't want to disappear into the background and live their private lives. Wrong. Oh well, let them go down that road (of lies and deception.) The truth always comes out anyway. It may be years later, but eventually it will.


malvern wrote:
They don't come across well. Amanda bristles when its suggested she needs to get her story out there still, I'm fine I'm cleared its about others now. Seconds later she has to admit some people think she's just trying to profit.
I'm fairly confidant the Kerchers are experiencing real joyous life events again , their core beliefs and values will guarantee that. So when Amanda justifies making the film knowing it will never end for them ( their punishment) its more about her life interrupted and stuck , so yes guermantes let her stay on that path.


Very helpful! Tks for these.

Pete
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Offline Fast Pete


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Location: New York

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:49 pm   Post subject: Re: HAMPIKIAN PIC   

Catnip wrote:
Fast Pete wrote:
... translate ...


First ball off the bat.

[HUGE WAVE OF TRANSLATION]

Sapienza's dilapidated mortuary is sad reading.

If anyone's having breakfast etc, scroll by.]


H ha ha! Wheeee! How does Catnip do that? Vital for posting.

Also [below] the update.

Pete

*******************

Added: Thanks a million for that below too.


Last edited by Fast Pete on Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

It's the same words, over and over again.

Grains of sand piling up over the years.
:)

On a sidenote, the literal phrase "(send out the) advice of guarantees" can be translated conceptually as "(the prosecution's) notice of due process" (to the defendant)", - meaning, 'time to get lawyered up and meet in battle in court (because of charges X, Y, Z now being levelled against you". Filing of charges, in other words.

The terminology follows the practice.

---
ETA
[Leggo], 11 March 2015
The 31 unidentified cadavers at the mortuary might be, some parents hoped, some of their missing persons. Although when the parents arrived at the mortuary, there was no functionary there to let them in.

= = =
A judge retiring because he’s fed up with all the (judicial) idiocy might be worth a look. He actually uses that word, idiocy. Forty years of it is enough. He mentions Occam and wrote some useful reference books. He's not a technophobe. And doesn’t like it that forensic experts get paid by the item. And he also name drops the Knox/Sollecito case as an example of the sorry state of forensics (although he got that idea from watching the TV news with those bra-waving ‘gleeful gloves’ , and he thinks Carla Vecchiotti not Stefanoni identified the genetic fingerprint of Amanda and Raffaele).
[Giornale]
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Inquisitr beats all other news websites when it comes to misrepresenting the facts of what happened at the cottage in Via della Pergola on the morning of Nov. 2, 2007

(take a look to have a laugh):

October 1, 2016
Amanda Knox Explains Why She Lied About Her Whereabouts When Her Roommate Was Killed
By Leigh Egan

[...] Prior to authorities arriving, Knox discovered blood in the apartment bathroom after she returned home from spending the night with her boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito.

She became alarmed when Kercher’s bedroom door was locked, although she thought it probably meant her roommate was still sleeping. Nevertheless, she called Sollecito, who quickly came over and began searching the apartment for missing items. Unbeknownst to him at the time, he contaminated a crime scene while scrambling through the apartment. After he found Kercher’s cellphones in a nearby garden, he too became alarmed.

The couple called the police and asked them break into Kercher’s bedroom, but when they declined, Sollecito’s had a friend knock her door down. After discovering Kercher, lifeless, lying under a duvet, they phoned Italian authorities again. Once the police arrived, they began questioning both Sollecito and Knox relentlessly, and according to Knox, it was their brutal interrogation that resulted in her lying about her whereabouts on the night of the murder.


INQUISITR

Not sure if they at Inquisitr check their facts at all before publishing...even Knox herself couldn't tell a taller tale. ;)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:03 pm   Post subject: IMDB REVIEWS   

Those viewers who've seen the documentary can post a review at Internet Movie Data Base
You have to sign in for membership but then you can review and vote for movies and TV series.
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

guermantes wrote:
Inquisitr beats all other news websites when it comes to misrepresenting the facts of what happened at the cottage in Via della Pergola on the morning of Nov. 2, 2007

(take a look to have a laugh):

October 1, 2016
Amanda Knox Explains Why She Lied About Her Whereabouts When Her Roommate Was Killed
By Leigh Egan

[...] Prior to authorities arriving, Knox discovered blood in the apartment bathroom after she returned home from spending the night with her boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito.

She became alarmed when Kercher’s bedroom door was locked, although she thought it probably meant her roommate was still sleeping. Nevertheless, she called Sollecito, who quickly came over and began searching the apartment for missing items. Unbeknownst to him at the time, he contaminated a crime scene while scrambling through the apartment. After he found Kercher’s cellphones in a nearby garden, he too became alarmed.

The couple called the police and asked them break into Kercher’s bedroom, but when they declined, Sollecito’s had a friend knock her door down. After discovering Kercher, lifeless, lying under a duvet, they phoned Italian authorities again. Once the police arrived, they began questioning both Sollecito and Knox relentlessly, and according to Knox, it was their brutal interrogation that resulted in her lying about her whereabouts on the night of the murder.


INQUISITR

Not sure if they at Inquisitr check their facts at all before publishing...even Knox herself couldn't tell a taller tale. ;)


But Pisa! Tabloids! Daily mail not fact checking is bad!

Pat
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:07 pm   Post subject: ROTTEN TOMATOES   

You can also post reviews at Rotten Tomatoes https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/amanda_knox
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Evidence emerges independent investigators weren't so independent.

I found an interview with Hampikian where he states his research and initial was rejected by the courts. If true, that directly contradicts the most recent statement that Hampikian's research was provided to the lab and they simply replicated his research. Though it may not have been Hampikian and the Idaho Innocence Project that provided his research to Conti and Vecchiotti, C&V having his research (per the recent news article) undermines any claim C&V can make of being "independent."

Any similarities between C&V's report and Hampikian's letter/research would support the recent statement that C&V had Hampikian's research, which according to Hampkian had previously been rejected by the court.

Pat
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

pataz1 wrote:
Evidence emerges independent investigators weren't so independent.

I found an interview with Hampikian where he states his research and initial was rejected by the courts. If true, that directly contradicts the most recent statement that Hampikian's research was provided to the lab and they simply replicated his research. Though it may not have been Hampikian and the Idaho Innocence Project that provided his research to Conti and Vecchiotti, C&V having his research (per the recent news article) undermines any claim C&V can make of being "independent."

Any similarities between C&V's report and Hampikian's letter/research would support the recent statement that C&V had Hampikian's research, which according to Hampkian had previously been rejected by the court.

Pat

We only have his word it was rejected by the Massei court, Pat, or that he offered to testify to the Hellmann court. You don't just write to the court, the request must be handled through the defense attorneys, who would have final say. Didn't Bongiorno say something about the Americans trying to butt in, and she refused? They were already pissed at Judge Heavey's letter and this might have prejudiced the court further. So either he gave his findings directly to C & V, or the lawyers did. And how DID C & V get selected as 'independent' experts? With Vecchiotti's background as a crooked incompetent, looks like the fix was in.
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
And how DID C & V get selected as 'independent' experts? With Vecchiotti's background as a crooked incompetent, looks like the fix was in.


Bongiornos father teaches at that university too, in another faulty, and I think she graduated there. I cant see how Hellmann would have had any ideas of where to look, murder trials were not his thing. It should by right have gone straight to the Carabinieri - can you recall if Cassation First Chambers said appeal judges had no right to appoint "independent" experts? I think they did.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Fast Pete wrote:
Ergon wrote:
And how DID C & V get selected as 'independent' experts? With Vecchiotti's background as a crooked incompetent, looks like the fix was in.


Bongiornos father teaches at that university too, in another faulty, and I think she graduated there. I cant see how Hellmann would have had any ideas of where to look, murder trials were not his thing. It should by right have gone straight to the Carabinieri - can you recall if Cassation First Chambers said appeal judges had no right to appoint "independent" experts? I think they did.

I believe they did, Peter. Given Vecchiotti's bent nature, doubly sordid. Bongiorno made such a fuss about Stefanoni's work Hellmann used that as his excuse to appoint them. 1st Chamber rightly said non repeatability of tests were not valid reasons, a path for contamination must be proven, and the appeals court should have explained why it preferred their reasoning over the prosecution experts'.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:09 am   Post subject: DID THE FILMMAKERS FACT CHECK?   

They played to the audience by showing Nick Pisa in the worst possible way, especially when he said he didn't 'fact check'. Given they were Knox's prison diary pages and HIV positive report don't how he could have but never mind. Then they come up with this in the closing credits:

Sorry, I couldn't find "stunning flaws" or "frantic search" anywhere in the judgement Marasca-Bruno Motivation Report

Looks like their source was from misleading editorial headline writers:
The Telegraph
The Guardian


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nick Pisa has a new article on the lingering questions of Meredith's murder.

I wonder if Knox did this film as a way of getting her story out before Guede is released... on Nightline the interviewer noticed her visibly shudder when the topic was brought up, which is an odd reaction... don't you think? I mean, theoretically his release has no impact on her now; he serves his sentence, her conviction was tossed out. Except... for the small matter of the stories pushed by her supporters. Why would she be so visibly shaken at the prospect of what Guede might have to say when he gets out?

Pat
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:19 am   Post subject: NICK PISA   

pataz1 wrote:
Nick Pisa has a new article on the lingering questions of Meredith's murder.

I wonder if Knox did this film as a way of getting her story out before Guede is released... on Nightline the interviewer noticed her visibly shudder when the topic was brought up, which is an odd reaction... don't you think? I mean, theoretically his release has no impact on her now; he serves his sentence, her conviction was tossed out. Except... for the small matter of the stories pushed by her supporters. Why would she be so visibly shaken at the prospect of what Guede might have to say when he gets out?

Pat

Interesting. Thanks for this link, Pat.
Quote:
Throughout that time, and still today, I am asked the same question over and over again.

Do I think “Foxy Knoxy” and her ­boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito did it?

I think it is unlikely that either of them plunged the knife into Meredith.

But the final ruling on the case in the Italian Supreme Court stated that although there was no evidence indicating the pair physically carried out the ­murder, there were indications they were present at the scene.

ETA:A bit of back tracking, after receiving all that abuse? I liked him in the film, loved his Cockney (?) honesty, wasn't "shocked, shocked" to find a reporter, er, reporting :)
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

guermantes wrote:
Inquisitr beats all other news websites when it comes to misrepresenting the facts of what happened at the cottage in Via della Pergola on the morning of Nov. 2, 2007

(take a look to have a laugh):

October 1, 2016
Amanda Knox Explains Why She Lied About Her Whereabouts When Her Roommate Was Killed
By Leigh Egan




You would never expect copy-pasting to be so difficult.
:)

It’s almost primary school (US: grade school) work, isn’t it?



= = = = =
Reminds me a little of Holmes’ opinion that law review notes were the ‘work of boys’.


That particular reference is proving somewhat reluctant to winkle out, being a reminiscence of Charles Hughes’ from 1941, and not on my shelf, but other people have read it.


For the winklers and librarians:
In
  • text
    • reference
format:


GoogleBooks
2001
Quote:


  • Chief Justice Charles Hughes recalls Holmes “refer[ring] somewhat scornfully to the ‘notes’ in law school reviews” as “the ‘work of boys’”.
    • Charles E Hughes, “Foreword” (1941) Yale L J 737 at 737
    • and cf John Jay McKelvey, “The Law School Review, 1887-1937”, (1937) Harvard L Rev 868 at 880

Neil Duxbury
Jurists and Judges: An Essay on Influence
P 30



1997
Quote:
  • The judiciary was not uniform in its acceptance of student-edited law review articles. For instance, in the early 1900s, a lawyer arguing before the United States Supreme Court referred to a law review article,
    • Judith S. Kaye, One Judge's View of Academic Law Review Writing, 39 J. Legal Educ. 313, 316 (1989)
  • and Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes admonished the attorney that law review articles were the "work of boys."
    • Id
  • Justice Holmes also "thought the limit had been reached when what he said in his judicial opinions was approved by the students as being 'a correct statement of the law.'"
    • Charles E. Hughes, Forward, 50 Yale L.J. 737, 737 (1941)


Closen, Michael L. and Dzielak, Robert J. (1997) "The History and Influence of the Law Review Institution," Akron Law Review: Vol. 30: Iss. 1, Article 2.
Available at: http://ideaexchange.uakron.edu/akronlaw ... l30/iss1/2


1996
Quote:

  • In 1911, United States Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes dismissed the reviews as the "work of boys", unworthy for citation before the bench
    • Hughes [1941], p. 737, quoting Holmes
      • C. Hughes, 1941. "Foreword," Yale Law Journal, vol. 50, pp. 737-738.

Last Writes? The Law Review in the Age of Cyberspace by Bernard Hibbitts.
First Monday, Volume 1, Number 3 - 2 September 1996
http://journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/f ... ew/482/403



1989
Quote:
  • When a lawyer in the 1900s had the temerity to refer to law review writings during a Supreme Court argument, Justice Holmes admonished that they were merely the “work of boys”
    • Charles E Hughes, Forword, 50 Yale LJ 737 (1941).



One Judge's View of Academic Law Review Writing
Judith S. Kaye
Journal of Legal Education
Vol. 39, No. 3 (September 1989), pp. 313-321
Published by: Association of American Law Schools
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/42893079

p 316




1941
Quote:

Foreword
Charles E. Hughes
The Yale Law Journal
Vol. 50, No. 5 (Mar., 1941), pp. 737-738
Published by: The Yale Law Journal Company, Inc.
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/792502


For the intrepid, a small fee will allow access to those two journal pages.
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Offline hugo


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Fast Pete wrote:
Ergon wrote:
And how DID C & V get selected as 'independent' experts? With Vecchiotti's background as a crooked incompetent, looks like the fix was in.


Bongiornos father teaches at that university too, in another faulty, and I think she graduated there. I cant see how Hellmann would have had any ideas of where to look, murder trials were not his thing. It should by right have gone straight to the Carabinieri - can you recall if Cassation First Chambers said appeal judges had no right to appoint "independent" experts? I think they did.


Papa Bongiorno was, possibly still is, a professor in the law faculty. C&V are in 'legal medicine', so not complete strangers to the law faculty. Colleagues of Papa Bongiorno, one would think.

Chieffi said that it was legitimate for an appeal judge to appoint experts if he felt he needed more information, but that Hellmann's stated grounds were 'inadequate,' his rationale was 'unfortunate' and his 'management of the mandate conferred on the chosen experts' was 'censurable'. Of course Chieffi did not think much of C&V themselves either.

(That whole issue is one of many things that James's book covers quite well, with copious reference to the sources.)
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Side-topic:


Danish-brand discount store Tiger arrives in Perugia, in Piazza Matteotti in the historic town centre.
[PerugiaToday]


EuroChocolate is starting in a fortnight, 14-23 October. Entrance is free. This year there is a ChocoCard for those who want one, and a ChocoSelfie stick for the photographers. Lots of displays and events in the cultural spectactular.
[BlastingNews]


And European Researchers Night, showcasing research work to the public, is getting bigger and bigger each year: there were 800 researchers this year across a handful of Italian cities, including Perugia, attracting large crowds.
[UmbriaJournal]




Dancing in the piazza at the ‘Silent Disco’ (DJ music via wireless earphones: Chis-Kee, Faust, Scapo) sounds fun. And Storytellers Night Show at the Peacock Theatre (Teatro Pavone): “Moon Medicines”, “Experiences of the Law Clinic”, “Molecular Communications”, “The Microbiologst and the SuperBacteria: The Battle Continues”, “Effects of Reading”, “Cortisonoids: old medicine, new ways”, “Amatrice Earthquake: what we know”, “We RandAg-ise, and what do you do?”. There’ll also be Speakers’ Corner researchers in Corso Vanucci and Via dei Priori, enacting their work and satisfying the curiosity of passers-by.
[PerugiaToday]



The first Contemporary Art Biennale opened today in the Rocca Paolina, free entry, until 16 October.
[PerugiaToday]
Image
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:25 pm   Post subject: ROTTEN TOMATO REVIEW   

"This is a flawed documentary, which tries too hard to follow the Netflix template of "The Making Of A Murderer". Is Knox Guilty, or is she the victim of an overzealous prosecution? Here, the media is presented as co-villain.

What strikes me, having followed the case since the beginning (Disclosure: I am one of the editors of The Murder Of Meredith Kercher website http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page )
is the number of outright misrepresentations of the prosecution's case and the prosecutor, Giuliano Mignini, which also is the Netflix template of over arguing the defence case while undermining the prosecution's.

The film makers add too many melodramatic touches though, and none worse than the over-emoting Amanda Knox. There is something false about the whole production. It turns out the producer and director had been involved in an online campaign advocating for her innocence, and, insulting journalists and prosecution though in interviews they claim to approach the case without bias..

I give it one star for its production values, none for its deceptive editing and dishonest story telling."
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:11 pm   Post subject: REVIEW OF AMANDA KNOX FILM ON TRUE CRIMES PODCAST   

Hi every one, I will be reviewing the film tonight 6:00 PM EST (11:00 PM UK) at Blog Talk Radio

You can listen to it later at this link if unable to at that time..
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

An excellent review that shares much of the sense audiences are feeling about the incompleteness and contradictions of the flim.



Amanda Knox presents a new (old) villian. But what about the case evidence?

Pat
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:40 am   Post subject: MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER SITE STATISTICS WAY UP   

We used to get a few hundred visits a day, on a good day. Ever since we started publishing the Wiki URL in response to film reviews, we're now getting 2-3,000 every 24 hours. And Alexa has us ranked at #790,816 and rising http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/themurder ... ercher.com and Knox's site much lower than ours http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/amandaknox.com at #1,909,470.

The Bruce Fischer/MichaelBecker @Justice4Knox owned site is ahem, much lower, http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/amandaknoxcase.com at #2,686,077.

We get more site visitors than them even in the US.

Sometimes, just the facts appeal to people more than personal attacks, just saying.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Seattle journalist Charles Mudede has come out with a review of "Amanda Knox"
The Stranger
Netflix's Amanda Knox Leaves People of Color Out of the Story
by Charles Mudede • Oct 3, 2016 at 3:07 pm
Quote:
What is certain is that the documentary is not interested in the people of color involved in the case. Indeed, Meredith Kercher, who was not white, but Indian and white European, is basically reduced to a dead foot sticking out of a duvet. There is not a single word on the fate of Lumumba, whose life was financially and emotionally turned upside down by Knox’s fingering. As for Rudy Guede, the British journalist Pisa gets the final word on him: He is worthless because his story isn’t juicy. He is just another black man who committed a crime, another black man who can’t keep his dick in his pants, another black man behind bars. Now where is the story in that? But a white, blond, and young American woman who, while exploring her sexuality in a dreamy Italian town, gets wrapped up in a murder that looks like a sex game gone wrong—that story is going to put some wings on the newspapers.

The documentary does interview Guede’s lawyer, but if he had anything important to say, it certainly did not reach the final edit of the film. Knox, of course, coldly dismisses Guede as a thug, though he didn’t have a criminal record—yes, none. Nor, before Kercher, was he ever accused of, let alone charged with, a sex crime. Sadly, the only person who can decisively say if she was or was not sexually assaulted by Guede is dead. Also, it is understood that more than one person was involved in the murder, and yet only one person is paying for the crime. “You know, when we realized that the third person in the case was not Patrick Lumumba,” Guiliano Mignini said to me when I visited Perugia in 2013, “and that it was an another African name Rudy Guede, everyone told us to drop the case against Knox. This was here in Italy. People were telling me to let her and Raffaele go and just to focus on the African guy. That’s interesting, isn’t it?”

Yep. I noticed that too in my podcast. Valter Biscotti had a lot more to say about his client but that was edited out, and Lumumba reduced to a cipher. Didn't fit the preferred narrative.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:28 am   Post subject: COMMENT ON THE STRANGER BLOG   

Quote:
Having seen the film when it came out at TIFF, following the case for many years as well as attending the earlier Supreme Court hearing in 2013 I can add the following:

-Rudy Guede's lawyer Valter Biscotti had a lot more to say about his client being convicted 'in conjunction with others'. This was left out.

- The Producer Stephen Robert Morse hid his involvement in the project with Brian McGinn and Rod Blackhurst since 2011. They had ALL made inflammatory comments in favour of Amanda Knox over the years, with Morse hastily deleting some (but not all) as the Netflix sale came up. He even called Nick Pisa "a piece of shit" in Perugia in 2011. It was the Danish production company head Mette Heide that approached Mignini and Pisa, who didn't know of Morse's involvement, but that gives the background to this biased 'documentary'.

- Mignini was referring to the Monster of Florence case when he talked of people coming up to shake his hand, the film makes it look like they were congratulating him for putting away Amanda Knox.

- He was referring to it being an inside job when he said an "unknown" man (edited out to make him seem misogynistic) would not have covered Meredith with a blanket.

- The biggest laugh the Toronto audience gave was WITH Nick Pisa when he said "I mean, she's a complete and utter loon".

Disclosure: I'm an editor at the Meredith Kercher case files website www.themurderofmeredithkercher.com and co-administrator of one of the Perugia Murder File sites.
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Major publications are starting to ask about the bias of the new netflix film:

EOnline: Was Amanda Knox Documentary biased?

Its interesting how the directors talk around their own bias; they start talking about social media and headlines instead of their choices in editing and including people.

But saying they "ground it in the supreme court legal finding and working backwards" already privileges the Knox point of view. They also selected which parts of the supreme court decision they wanted to talk about, obviously leaving out the court upholding Knox's slander charge, the finding Knox was at the scene of the crime, etc. So I think this "grounded in the supreme court decision and working backwards" is something they're using to hide their own editing bias.

McGinn has talked about a "rashomon effect," but the thing about Rashomon is it showed that rational people could legitimately disagree on a particular event and have their rational justifications for doing so. "Amanda Knox" fails at delivering a Rashomon effect as it privileges the Knox point of view by "grounding it" in selected portions of the Supreme Court decision. By that (post facto) choice of the directors, Knox is propped up as having more legitimacy in her appearance than the others. Overall, though, the movie privileges the innocence campaign's view that it was a prosecutor-driven case and that the British tabloid media shares a responsibility.

Pat
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:38 am   Post subject: MY REVIEW OF THE DECEPTIVE NETFLIX "AMANDA KNOX" DOCUMENTARY   

Attachment:
Meredith documentary II.jpg


I saw the film at the Toronto International Film Festival. As a passionate lover of movies and documentaries, I respect the right of ANYONE to create a documentary or film through the prism of their own POV.

On the other hand, they owe us, the audience, a modicum of honesty in their reporting. Otherwise, as some one once complained about deceptive editing and reporting in one of Katie Couric's documentaries, it prevents "democratic discourse" and this is what we ask. By all means, engage with us, but do so honestly.

Having followed the case for many years as well as attending the earlier Supreme Court hearing in 2013 I can add the following:

-Rudy Guede's lawyer Valter Biscotti had a lot more to say about his client being convicted 'in conjunction with others'. This was edited out, as well as the caption Knox put alongside her blog when she posed with a machine gun, "The Nazi Within". Something the media reported correctly at the time, McGinn and Blackhurst not.

- The Producer Stephen Robert Morse hid his involvement in the project with Brian McGinn and Rod Blackhurst since 2011. They had ALL made inflammatory comments in favour of Amanda Knox over the years, with Morse hastily deleting some (but not all) as the Netflix sale came up.

- He even called Nick Pisa "a piece of shit" in Perugia in 2011. It was the Danish production company head Mette Heide that approached Mignini and Pisa, who didn't know of Morse's involvement, but that gives the background to this biased 'documentary' and why some may feel it is less than fair or balanced in its portrayal of the protagonists.

- Mignini was referring to the Monster of Florence case when he talked of people coming up to shake his hand, the film makes it look like they were congratulating him for putting away Amanda Knox.

- He was referring to it being an inside job when he said an "unknown" man (edited out to make him seem misogynistic) would not have covered Meredith with a blanket.

- The film emphasized his Catholic beliefs to make it seem he was making a moralistic judgement about her. As he pointed out, the evidence was somewhat overwhelming. It also made it seem like his love of Sherlock Holmes was proof of him following a hunch. Um, that's what investigators sometimes do, especially when faced with the numerous prevarications and failed alibis of Amanda Knox. Obscuring the evidence to match your narrative is dishonest to the extreme.

- The 'independent' DNA experts Conti and Vecchiotti were given lots of room to claim contamination though that was never proved in court, only inferred. Also left out: Vecchiotti's sentence for not maintaining sterile conditions in HER laboratory. Her switching a suspect's DNA with another in one of Italy's worst murder cases in order to falsely exonerate someone with 'connections'. The tests had to be redone to obtain a conviction. As they make fun of Nick Pisa for 'not fact-checking', should they not have fact-checked before they placed her on camera?

- The biggest laugh the Toronto audience gave was WITH Nick Pisa when he said "I mean, she's (Knox) a complete and utter loon".

- This follows the Netflix template of creating reasonable doubt as it did with "The Making Of A Murder". By over emphasizing the defense case, and ignoring the prosecution's, it reads like propaganda.

- This is neither fair nor balanced, nor is it original. It adds nothing to our knowledge, being a rehash of her book and numerous TV interviews, and already covered in Michael Winterbottom's "The Face Of An Angel" in his fictionalized 'the making of a movie within a movie' adaptation of reporter Barbie Nadeau's book. Oh, and producer Morse insulted HER too.

- There were several prosecutors and judges helped convict her, not just prosecutor Mignini. Nor was it an exercise in misogyny, the case was driven by three women, prosecutor Manuela Comodi, Scientific Police DNA lab technician Patrizia Stefanoni and homicide Inspector Monica Napoleoni.

- This exercise in PR looks like an Amanda Knox Production, with her playing the lead role, director, producer and writer. Yet she fails to see how she comes across with her melodramatic styling and emotive pauses and outbursts. She is neither believable nor sympathetic, no matter how hard they all try.

- Two stars out of ten for production values and slick cinematography, none for the film itself.

In the end, the picture belongs to Meredith Kercher, remembered by her family with a grieving Arline Kercher, her mother saying how she just could not understand how there could be two convictions and two acquittals; justice denied.

And a haunting video of Meredith, taken in the full bloom of her youthful promise by Amanda Knox. She didn't want to be filmed, but as Knox admits in her book, she took the video anyway. (And included in her film).

Meredith Kercher, RIP.


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Offline jape


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Very interesting review Ergon. Thank you.

I had thought of including a Chapter on Vecchiotti's background in my book but after a long search could not find the source material and in the end decided that it was not evidence and might look like biased character assassination. Likewise with the connections Bongiorno has with La Spienza University through her father etc. I thought it best to avoid anything suggesting too much personal bias. That story does need to be laid out somewhere however. If I could get hold of the sources I would seriously consider including an Afterword as, after all, I did hint at connections influencing the final outcome.

Lovely picture of Meredith despite her seemingly being caught unawares by Knox's intrusive, up close, in your face, and from behind camera shot.
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Offline JohnQ


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Catnip wrote:
Andrea Coccia at [Linkiesta] (=”Linkquest”), “Colpevole o innocente, di sicuro il mostro non è Amanda Knox” (Guilty or innocent, for sure the monster is not Amanda Knox) goes for the Luminol metaphor: if you like Dostoyevsky, watch this: there’s no trial, no murder, no laboratories and not even a shadow of the search for truth: just humanity reacting to blood and celebrity. The result is a sideshow of monsters. Everyone is the bad guy. The shadows cover Mignini, who grotesquely emerges as an infantile Sherlock Holmes fan and fervent catholic who is convinced, from the start, of Amanda’s guilt thanks to a hunch that is acceptable only in a legal thriller: “Only a woman would have covered the body of another woman, a man would never have done that.” You can almosar Kafka laughing behind the scenes. Laughing scoop-chasing gossip-reporter Mark Pisa [sic] is literally “frightening”. As is a public with thumbs ready to decide the fate of those about to die in the arena. There is no truth, or better, the truth hasn't changed: the monsters are us.


The same Sherlock Holmes meme/ slur is in the film and in other reviews, e.g. this iteration in guermantes' link above to the New York Magazine review.

'"The access to Knox and Sollecito is impressive, but it’s the screen time featuring the other key players that illuminates exactly how this case went off the rails. Mignini, for his part, speaks of being convinced of Knox’s guilt because of various Sherlock Holmesian hunches; for instance, Kercher’s dead body was found covered with a comforter, and Mignini believes that “a man would never think to cover her with a blanket.” (Never mind things like, you know, DNA evidence.)"

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/09/its-fin ... story.html

Editing please wait

Edit- I wrote a long post but I lost track of it. Basically, these greedy, dishonest people and their inane attacks on Dr. Mignini annoy me. The fact Dr. Mignini understood the duvet was an element of staging was to his credit. The postal police understood there had been a staging let alone Dr. Mignini.


Last edited by JohnQ on Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

jape wrote:
Lovely picture of Meredith


It is.

jape wrote:
despite her seemingly being caught unawares by Knox's intrusive, up close, in your face, and from behind camera shot.



That’s actually a predatory technique. I’m no longer surprised (it’s not evidence, though). Camera or coltello (knife), same muscle movements.

Coltello, from Latin cultellus, a little culter (knife), akin to Sanskrit cartaris (hunting knife), English shear, Greek keiro (I shear), Lithuanian kertu (I cut, I wound), etc.

Camera means “room” in Italian, related to “chamber” in English/French, and many similar words in other languages, going back to a meaning of something like “curved”, “bent over”, “vaulted”, “arched”, “ribbed”, “scalloped”. So chancery, and the River Cam, and cambered.

A camera (English) being swapped for a camera (Italian), in the same “intrusive, up close, in your face, and from behind” snap.

There always seem to be language-learner resonances popping up from out of the backdrop, half-linking things together. One idea leads to another. Certainly more than just randomised coincidences.
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

pataz1 wrote:
Overall, though, the movie privileges the innocence campaign's view that it was a prosecutor-driven case and that the British tabloid media shares a responsibility.



Where did this bizarre theory about British tabloids deciding the case come from? Little green men from Mars would have made a more effective target, but maybe someone would have got sidetracked by leprechauns or squirrels.

It’s almost as if Marriott spooked Amanda’s biological father (or conned him?) about what needed to be done to save Amanda (or Amanda’s campaign image?). Or Marriott presented himself as the PR version of “The Cleaner”. (Why?)

In any case, there was a mutual “vibe” and a bargain was struck (probably in three or four meanings of the word ‘bargain’). Why Ann Bremner didn’t intervene to get a better outcome is another mystery. Almost as if there were two teams, coming at it from different angles/perspectives.

If film-makers want a story, why not one about so-called “friends” trying to “help” parents who have had a child charged, and those friends refusing to get professional (i.e., experienced and expert) help, and instead doing things amateurishly on their own. Surely not everything in America is laissez-faire?

(I count self-proclaimed lawyers who can’t read the evidence file as amateurs, possibly out for a quick buck if they’re not friends of the family (and even then, …)).
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Offline Catnip


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon,

Well put.
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Offline corpusvile


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Catnip wrote:
pataz1 wrote:
Overall, though, the movie privileges the innocence campaign's view that it was a prosecutor-driven case and that the British tabloid media shares a responsibility.



Where did this bizarre theory about British tabloids deciding the case come from? Little green men from Mars would have made a more effective target, but maybe someone would have got sidetracked by leprechauns or squirrels.

It’s almost as if Marriott spooked Amanda’s biological father (or conned him?) about what needed to be done to save Amanda (or Amanda’s campaign image?). Or Marriott presented himself as the PR version of “The Cleaner”. (Why?)

In any case, there was a mutual “vibe” and a bargain was struck (probably in three or four meanings of the word ‘bargain’). Why Ann Bremner didn’t intervene to get a better outcome is another mystery. Almost as if there were two teams, coming at it from different angles/perspectives.

If film-makers want a story, why not one about so-called “friends” trying to “help” parents who have had a child charged, and those friends refusing to get professional (i.e., experienced and expert) help, and instead doing things amateurishly on their own. Surely not everything in America is laissez-faire?

(I count self-proclaimed lawyers who can’t read the evidence file as amateurs, possibly out for a quick buck if they’re not friends of the family (and even then, …)).


It's from the same place as the corrupt/insane/Satanism obsessed prosecutor, and the witch hunt which slut shamed Knox for having a sex life, the land of smoke and mirrors. I pointed this out on Twitter- why the need to focus on a tabloid journalist, or Prosecutor or forensic specialist or anything else that deviates from the sheer mountain of evidence which convicted the pair? It amazes me that this isn't a red flag to people and that they don't actually take a step back and ask themselves how likely it is for a tabloid journalist to influence a court of law. There's also the shifting of villains- Mignini, Stefanoni, and now Pisa. They seem, like Knox herself to be utterly inconsistent and it's a pretty clear cut pattern to me.
This should be highlighted whenever possible imo, the sheer house of card, emperor has no clothes vibe that the endless excuses, veritably scream. Pure smoke an mirrors. Like an untested stain, really.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

If you have checked in with IIP at all this year you would have heard Bruce say there are only a handful of people who still cling to the idea of the defendant's guilt. If there has been one positive with the latest media blitz this just isn't the case. To hear even ABC bring up the polarized opinions seems like progress to me.
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Offline JohnQ


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Rumpole wrote:
Australian news site has a report on the Netflix doc, mostly about what Mignini says, nothing new really but here you are:


New documentary explores story behind Amanda Knox’s trial over housemate’s murder


GIULIANO Mignini will never forget the crime scene.

The streaky, bloody handprint on the wall, the ripped bra and a leg protruding out from underneath a doona.

It looked like something from those forensic movies Mignini loved so much; they were the reason he became a public prosecutor.

But this was a truly horrifying and traumatic scene that would start his almost decade-long fight to prosecute the person who was guilty of this cold-blooded crime.

“I asked is a monster responsible for this?” Mignini said.

------------------

Mignini told the documentary when he looked at the crime scene, he began to speculate what happened to Meredith.

“Why was the girl covered with a blanket? A woman who has killed tends to cover the body of female victims, a man would never think to do this,” he postulates.

The thing he said stuck out most to him at the crime scene, was the smashed window.

“Nothing had been stolen and there was no evidence somebody climbed the wall (to get to the window).

“Immediately I could tell it was a staged break-in. It could have no other function than this. To throw off suspicion from someone who has a connection to the house.”

Mr Mignini began to suspect Amanda was guilty of the crime when he saw her cuddling her boyfriend outside the crime scene.

“They were comforting each other with an affection inappropriate for the moment,” he told the documentary.
Two days after the murder Amanda went back to the house with Mignini and he said she lost it.

“She started hitting the palms of her hands on her ears as if there was the memory of a noise, a sound, a scream — Meredith’s scream. Undoubtedly, I started to suspect
Amanda.”

-------------

Mignini became even more suspicious when Amanda blamed the murder on her boss, Patrick Lumumba, who gave her a job at his bar.

He was held in custody for two weeks before being released after his alibi checked out.

Mignini said in the documentary, the only reason to blame Lumumba “would be to divert the investigation away from her”.

Amanda has a specific weakness, according to Mignini.

He said she couldn’t stand being questioned by authorities and had an attitude, hostility and rebellion against police.

One of the main bits of evidence against Amanda was a knife found in her boyfriend’s house.

On the handle was Amanda’s DNA and on the blade, Meredith’s.

Mignini concocted this idea of what happened in Meredith’s final hours and it involved three killers and a number of unidentifiable fingerprints.

“When the trial started I thought everything would be easy, there was direct evidence like DNA proof,” he told the documentary.

“But there is not only DNA. Amanda was a girl that was very uninhibited. She would bring boys home and hearing Meredith’s friends,
if you could imagine a girl different from Amanda in every imaginable way it would have been Meredith.”


------------------------


Mignini went on to imagine the night Meredith was killed.

He sees Amanda in her house with her boyfriend and Rudy Guede.

The Italian court found Rudy was involved in Meredith’s murder, with his bloodstained fingerprints found at the murder scene.

He was convicted of sexual assault and murder in 2008.

In Mignini’s imagined version of events, Meredith sees Amanda with the boys and possibly “scolded her for her lack of morals”.

“Amanda must’ve felt humiliated. Irritated. ‘So you want to judge my morals so harshly, now I’m going to show you what will happen.’ She was a proud girl,” Mignini said in the documentary.

“And then there’s a crescendo of attacks. I am convinced Raffaele and Rudy were trying to indulge Amanda in every possible way that night.

“Pleasure, at any cost, this is the heart of most crimes.”

----------------------------

It appears in the documentary Mignini did not think much of Amanda and worked hard to get a guilty verdict put upon her.

But Amanda appealed her first conviction and there was an independent forensic investigation that found DNA evidence could not be relied on.

Independent forensic experts told the documentary DNA could be easily moved and the crime scene was not kept completely sterile.

The independent investigation found there was chaos at the crime scene, people coming and going and rarely changing their gloves.

The knife, which had DNA from both Amanda and Meredith, was also tested alongside 50 DNA samples of Meredith’s.

Because there was such a small amount of Meredith’s DNA on the knife blade, the experts believed contamination was likely.


-----------------------------


Mignini became the subject of a barrage of attacks from the media and people in the community.

“During the trial there was a woman who said I was the devil. I can say that I’ve made mistakes, even things that I have had to confess,” Mignini told the documentary.

“But we are all between good and evil. It’s in our human nature.

“Amanda and Raffaele, if they are innocent I hope they’re able to forget the suffering they’ve endured.

“If they’re guilty, if earthly justice didn’t get to them, I hope they own their guilt because I know that life ends with a final trial, a trial with no appeals, no second chances and no revisions.”


Despite the documentary showing other interviews with a journalist, Amanda and Raffaele, you don’t get any more clear answers about the circumstances around Meredith’s death. That we may never know.

But the documentary shows you there is a human behind the headlines, and that human is Amanda Knox.


Dr. Mignini wrote, "I was stunned by one statement by the end of the article, that says – in which I am reported to have said – that “if they were innocent, they should forget”. That is a statement which I said on request of one of the two interviewers, who asked “what would you say to those young persons in the event that they were actually innocent?”. So what could I say, what should I answer to a question framed and spun in such a way? I might say: “it’s an experience that unfortunately happened to you, something that may happen, try to forget, seek all legal ways” – but I was saying that in the abstract, purely in the abstract – “that you think you can follow if you deem that you suffered an injustice” – albeit the Cassazione ruling is in the dubitative formula (Art. 530 § 2. cpp).

But then the Vanityfair journalist does not report my *second* statement, that is, the other one I said just following: “And what about if they are guilty? If they were guilty I’d suggest them to remind that our human life ends as trial that has an irreversible sentence, that will last forever”. My answer was made of two statements, not of one. Both were rhetorical and hypothetical. The last statement was the one I thought would have unleashed criticism, but curiously it’s the one missing in the article, there is no comment about it.

...

I don’t know if Vanityfair was the one which made up or spun my answers, falsely reporting them from the Netflix documentary, or if it was Netflix itself who made them up by editing the interview and disseminating content from a video prior to the premiere."

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php ... /#comments
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:03 pm   Post subject: MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI RATINGS   

Apropos of nothing Alexa
Global Rank
659,379 (+1,792,196)
Rank in United States
165,284
hugz-)


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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

At least one CNN contributor is critical of the new netflix film:


@tancredipalmeri
beIN Sports correspondent, CNN/Gazzetta dello Sport contributor, Rai Sport1 Zona11pm. Italian by birth. Sicilian by the grace of God

Quote:
Watched a bit of Amanda Knox documentary. What a fucking screenplayed piece of publicity stunt from the Knox media machine

In 2016, history and truth are written by who can use the best the tool of moviemaking.
If you shot a good movie, that will paint the truth
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Offline jamie


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The views and agenda Bruce Fischer and his organisation Injustice in Perugia are branded 'white supremacist' by BRIGHT LIGHTS member.

Quote:
As though one can state facts outside of a point of view or argument! You clearly have an agenda, so pls don't try and pretend otherwise. I see you have record of defending Knox; but there is no reason one cannot argue for the miscarriage of justice and also be anti-racist. That you refrain from doing so says a lot about your position and politics (so much for not making an argument!). To say this case has never been about race is a white suprematist argument; ask Lumumba and Guede and countless other people of colour whether the justice system and law and order in the US and Europe are not about race and you'll get the opposite view. How can you purport to defend against injustice "anywhere" and say that race has nothing to do with it? PPLLLEASE!


https://disqus.com/home/discussion/brig ... l_comments
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Offline jamie


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:04 pm   Post subject: Re: MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI RATINGS   

Ergon wrote:
Apropos of nothing Alexa
Global Rank
659,379 (+1,792,196)
Rank in United States
165,284
hugz-)



One thing the Netflix film, which may yet turn out to be a shot in the foot for Knox, is that it looks like it has generated interest in people wanting to know and understand the facts of the case.

Bravo! The Murder of Meredith Kercher com is deservedly a great success.

mul-) mul-) dance-) dance-) b-(( b-(( dm-) dm-) tt-) tt-) d-)) tou-)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:24 am   Post subject: Re: MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI RATINGS   

jamie wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Apropos of nothing Alexa
Global Rank
659,379 (+1,792,196)
Rank in United States
165,284
hugz-)



One thing the Netflix film, which may yet turn out to be a shot in the foot for Knox, is that it looks like it has generated interest in people wanting to know and understand the facts of the case.

Bravo! The Murder of Meredith Kercher com is deservedly a great success.

mul-) mul-) dance-) dance-) b-(( b-(( dm-) dm-) tt-) tt-) d-)) tou-)

Thanks, every one, from all the editors at the Wiki, jamie. Since the initial review came out we are getting 3,000 unique site visits a day. Your tweets linking to the site really helped.
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Hello, everyone - hope you've all had a great summer!

I'm looking forward to reading what the members here have to say about the Netflix "doc"!

My initial impression was that it could have been worse, and, for all that was missing if not just flat-out misrepresented, you have to love Walter Biscotti's bit about arrogant Americans lecturing Italians on the law (he gets my vote for Best in Show), which, IIRC, went something like:

In 1308, this [Italian] courthouse was home to the first faculty of law in Europe -

In America, in 1308 ... they were drawing buffalo on caves.



Then again, that line would be a lot funnier if Italy's highest court had not handed down such a bizarre (even contradictory!) set of judgments in this case ...

(One gets the sense that some of these Italian justices could not draw a line to connect just 2 dots let alone all the dots required to 'draw a buffalo' ;-)

I wonder if ANYONE will ever have the journalistic integrity to complete a documentary that dares to look at what the Supreme Court ACTUALLY wrote about the defendants in this case ...
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Offline pataz1


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I have a review coming out sometime tomorrow on my site..
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Offline jamie


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Good, neutral, dispassionate review here:

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/10/standard ... n-answers/
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Knox and her BF make headlines again:

6th October, 2016

Amanda Knox confirms her relationship with new boyfriend days after celebrating five years since she was released
By Brittany Vonow

The young woman, who was recently thrown back into the spotlight upon the release of a Netflix documentary about the murder case that saw her imprisoned, made the announcement about eight months after the couple had started dating.

She had previously revealed on her blog that the couple had moved in together at the end of September.

Just two days before making the relationship public, the young woman shared the date October 3, writing: "October 3rd, 2011. Five years ago today I was freed from four years of wrongful imprisonment."

Before having moved in together, the couple had also travelled to Detroit in March 2016 this year.


THE SUN

"The young woman, who was recently thrown back into the spotlight..." - Wasn't it her own choice to step back into the spotlight? She wasn’t “thrown” into it by anyone. Who hindered her from keeping a low profile? They would do anything to stand out and attract people’s attention, I guess. He – by wearing “provocative” and eye-catching clothes and sporting “a beard manicured to look like he’d been mauled by a grizzly”, she – by giving interviews and pontificating about the Innocence Project and exonerees, both – by feeding photos to the press, to that same “Daily Mail” they so despise and condemn for falsely reporting the facts of the case. Yeah, I know, pretentious “artsy types” love to show off and shock and may be forgiven for it. I just hope they won’t be moving to Canada where he could be mauled by a real grizzly bear (kidding.)

Quote from the review of the War of Encyclopaedists in The New York Times:

Review: ‘War of the Encyclopaedists,’ by Christopher Robinson and Gavin Kovite
By Michiko Kakutani

Quote:
At the same time, it does an adroit job of conjuring the 20-something bohemian world that they frequent in Seattle, and later in Boston, a world of millennials whose default setting is irony — where artworks and conversations and parties tend to have quotation marks around them, where artsy cool is both a social lubricant and a form of emotional armor.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/books ... ovite.html
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:38 am   Post subject: GILL CRITIQUE   

Having fun going through my notes on Gill:
Quote:
Yeah, sure. Try reading Peter Gill's "Misleading DNA Evidence" where he contradicts himself on the case by saying chances of getting a reportable profile via passive transfer is "very low" >24 hrs after last contact (p76-77)
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:08 am   Post subject: A Lost Summer?   

pataz1 wrote:
I have a review coming out sometime tomorrow on my site..


I look forward to reading it, Pat, and hope you'll post a link here!


----------------------------

Woah, I just realized that it's been about 6 months since I've posted and as I scan the boards to see if I've missed anything interesting, it seems that 2 particularly sad *** ****s haven't taken so much as a SINGLE day off in all that time!!!

And, before this doc was released, there wasn't really anything new to discuss!!!

What makes someone feel the need to express the same uninformed, lay opinion over TEN THOUSAND times across 2 different boards???

Which reminds me, how much over-eating and over-blogging/ physical inactivity is required in order to fatten your pinky finger to the point where it resembles a big toe???

Hidden Content: show
Image



These guys are even managing to put weight on their THUMBS!
Hidden Content: show


Take a break, boys! Put down that extra large bag of Cheetos and try getting out of the basement for a walk once month or something! You missed out on an entire summer!!!


Last edited by Jackie on Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:13 am   Post subject: NETFLIX REVIEW   

Two thoughts came up after I wrote the review.

1: Amanda Knox herself raises the question, Is she a psychopath or not?, then McGinn and Blackhurst avoid the many proofs out there by deflecting. Funny how she brackets it with her statement about how ‘people are scared of monsters’ while her interlocutors do their best to demonize Pisa and Mignini.

2: I agree I would have preferred not to have seen the video of Meredith in that film. But seeing how she wrote about taking the video, I got it: she’s gloating, like any other sexual sadist.
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:21 am   Post subject: Re: NETFLIX REVIEW   

Ergon wrote:
Two thoughts came up after I wrote the review.

1: Amanda Knox herself raises the question, Is she a psychopath or not?, then McGinn and Blackhurst avoid the many proofs out there by deflecting. Funny how she brackets it with her statement about how ‘people are scared of monsters’ while her interlocutors do their best to demonize Pisa and Mignini.

2: I agree I would have preferred not to have seen the video of Meredith in that film. But seeing how she wrote about taking the video, I got it: she’s gloating, like any other sexual sadist.


There's a middle ground that Knox and her handlers deftly elide: kids get ****ed up on street drugs and/or alcohol and do something violent that they'd never do when sober.

Which reminds me, whatever happened to Reid Schepis??? (One minute you're an American exchange student getting high and partying in Italy, and the next, you're stabbing your roomie and can't remember any of it.)

What did the Italian courts end up doing with young Reid???


Last edited by Jackie on Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Rumpole


Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:46 pm

Posts: 241

Location: Old Bailey

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

pataz1 wrote:
At least one CNN contributor is critical of the new netflix film:


[url=https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri/status/783773243815723012]@tancredipalmeri[/url]
beIN Sports correspondent, CNN/Gazzetta dello Sport contributor, Rai Sport1 Zona11pm. Italian by birth. Sicilian by the grace of God

Quote:
Watched a bit of Amanda Knox documentary. What a fucking screenplayed piece of publicity stunt from the Knox media machine

In 2016, history and truth are written by who can use the best the tool of moviemaking.
If you shot a good movie, that will paint the truth

I remember this crazy guy from Euro2016, made me laugh:

https://twitter.com/MM_eurosportfr/stat ... 8377909248
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:54 am   Post subject: FOA dude?   

Does anyone know who this thick-necked but not-exactly-handsome dude is? For a while I thought it was "phanuelB" without his glasses and mustache but now I'm not sure.

Image


Last edited by Jackie on Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:03 pm   Post subject: Re: NETFLIX REVIEW   

Jackie wrote:
There's a middle ground that Knox and her handlers deftly elide: kids get ****ed up on street drugs and/or alcohol and do something violent that they'd never do when sober.


Hi again Jackie.

Right. Leaving aside what cops knew of Knox's drug use (Judge Micheli did not want that in, thought it would be used to argue for a light sentence) and Sollecito's lawyer Maori saying at trial that Knox was on cocaine on the night...

A study of American exchange students in Europe showed that on average their alcohol and drug intakes jumped significantly. Perugia had the "best" reputation among foreign students for drugs back then. (Not any more thanks to those pesky police.)

American students sometimes have required medication to keep their minds unscrambled, and there is a reported tendency for some to come off their meds and go haywire once they arrive in Europe.

American students kill several non-Americans around the world every year. Since 2007 there have been several other cases in Italy, at least one as barbaric as the murder of Meredith.

This appears to be the only case where the local Embassy had a huge involvement. Monitoring Knox's treatment before trial, at trial, at appeals, and in Capanne, from 2007 to late 2011, with over 100 overnight stays in Perugia and Florence cost US taxpayers a minimum of $500,000.

With no reporting critical of Italy.


Last edited by Fast Pete on Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Netflix Fail? Viewership Low, Below 1/10 So Far Of More Factual BBC “Is Amanda Knox Guilty?”

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php ... e_factual/
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Offline hugo


Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:20 pm

Posts: 290

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The Wrap reports the same, with ratings estimated at 382,000. (Little more than half the viewers that Andrea Vogt's film got just on the BBC Three minority youth channel in the UK alone.)

http://www.thewrap.com/amanda-knox-rati ... firm-says/
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:21 pm   Post subject: NETFLIX STOCK   

Fast Pete wrote:
Netflix Fail? Viewership Low, Below 1/10 So Far Of More Factual BBC “Is Amanda Knox Guilty?”

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php ... e_factual/

Ah, but Netflix stock is up, Pete, on rumoured buyout by Apple or Disney. It had a whole new slate of films as well but viewership is declining overall because of their raised prices. Failed documentaries about 'miscarriages of justice' don't help either.

In other news, ISIS, er, Syria's 'White Helmets' didn't get the Nobel Peace Prize, instead (deservedly) going to Colombia's president Juan Manuel Santos for trying to end the civil war. All that Hollywood propaganda got no where, and Netflix's "White Helmets" is getting hammered as people notice it is joined at the hip with jihadists :)

So I was going to short its stock soon, then I saw this today Time Magazine

Business mergers & acquisitions

Why You Shouldn’t Believe Those Netflix-Disney Rumors

Or Netflix-Apple, for that matter


drin-)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:37 pm   Post subject: NICK PISA   

Curious note as Nick Pisa somewhat defensively writes in The Sun
Quote:
3rd October 2016
NICK PISA ‘The lead prosecutor who briefed me daily told me his hunch was that a woman did the killing as only a woman would cover the body’

From early on, the prosecution and police were adamant they had arrested the guilty parties, briefing me on a daily basis with the latest information they had from their investigation.

Pipe-smoking Giuliano Mignini was the lead prosecutor, and after viewing the crime scene he told me his hunch was that a woman did the killing as only a woman would cover the body.

Footprints had been found, and although it was still early days the size and shape suggested to him, again, that a woman was involved.

Days later police called me to tell me they had the murder weapon, a 12in kitchen knife found in Sollecito’s kitchen.

They told me that when Knox had been shown the knife she started ­trembling, before breaking down ­hysterically in tears.

Just curious then: Did the "prosecution and police" 'brief him personally' every day, or, the assembled press corps? Because if it was Mignini speaking to him privately, he just revealed a source, or, more likely, Nick was embellishing just a wee bit :)
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

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Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:43 pm   Post subject: Re: NETFLIX STOCK   

Ergon wrote:
Fast Pete wrote:
Netflix Fail? Viewership Low, Below 1/10 So Far Of More Factual BBC “Is Amanda Knox Guilty?”

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php ... e_factual/

Ah, but Netflix stock is up, Pete, on rumoured buyout by Apple or Disney. It had a whole new slate of films as well but viewership is declining overall because of their raised prices. Failed documentaries about 'miscarriages of justice' don't help either.

In other news, ISIS, er, Syria's 'White Helmets' didn't get the Nobel Peace Prize, instead (deservedly) going to Colombia's president Juan Manuel Santos for trying to end the civil war. All that Hollywood propaganda got no where, and Netflix's "White Helmets" is getting hammered as people notice it is joined at the hip with jihadists :)

So I was going to short its stock soon, then I saw this today Time Magazine

Great sleuthing again Ergon. Our forthcoming press releases could gain some real traction.

Business mergers & acquisitions

Why You Shouldn’t Believe Those Netflix-Disney Rumors

Or Netflix-Apple, for that matter


drin-)
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

Posts: 856

Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:52 pm   Post subject: Re: NICK PISA   

Ergon wrote:
Curious note as Nick Pisa somewhat defensively writes,...

Just curious then: Did the "prosecution and police" 'brief him personally' every day, or, the assembled press corps? Because if it was Mignini speaking to him privately, he just revealed a source, or, more likely, Nick was embellishing just a wee bit :)


Embellished is an understatement.

His back is against a wall and we were grateful to have his reports which were factual except near end of Hellmann appeal when he seemed to be going the way of Sforza.

Many other reporters we used said it was hard to get info out of the police and prosecutors (there are limits in law on them talking) and although Dr Mignini would answer questions he sure wasnt calling anyone.

Daily? Really? Pisa traveled a few days to Perugia in 2008 and 2009 and phased down during the defense phase as the lawyers were so despondent they were sometimes awol.

10X the leaks came from the defense. What did Pisa not mention that?
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:12 pm   Post subject: Re: NICK PISA   

Fast Pete wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Curious note as Nick Pisa somewhat defensively writes,...

Just curious then: Did the "prosecution and police" 'brief him personally' every day, or, the assembled press corps? Because if it was Mignini speaking to him privately, he just revealed a source, or, more likely, Nick was embellishing just a wee bit :)


Embellished is an understatement.

His back is against a wall and we were grateful to have his reports which were factual except near end of Hellmann appeal when he seemed to be going the way of Sforza.

Many other reporters we used said it was hard to get info out of the police and prosecutors (there are limits in law on them talking) and although Dr Mignini would answer questions he sure wasnt calling anyone.

Daily? Really? Pisa traveled a few days to Perugia in 2008 and 2009 and phased down during the defense phase as the lawyers were so despondent they were sometimes awol.

10X the leaks came from the defense. What did Pisa not mention that?

What Pisa didn't say, Pete, is that Francesco Sforza AKA "Frank Sfarzo" WAS one of his sources. Barbie Nadeau mentions how he came up with documents and inside info all the time, so yes there were leaks. But not from Mignini.
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Offline jamie


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

A forensic criminal profiler explains five reasons Amanda Knox is Guilty:

http://linkis.com/wordpress.com/x5v1u
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Offline Fast Pete


Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm

Posts: 856

Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:16 pm   Post subject: Re: NICK PISA   

Ergon wrote:
What Pisa didn't say, Pete, is that Francesco Sforza AKA "Frank Sfarzo" WAS one of his sources. Barbie Nadeau mentions how he came up with documents and inside info all the time, so yes there were leaks. But not from Mignini.


Agreed to leaks though not just generalized leaks from all over, I think we knew? From one guy in particular, and they figured out who it was and moved him or fired him and Franks inside info fell off a cliff? And not neutral links, guy was sneering as Frank does, and did great harm by lying?

I captured much of Perugia Shocks early days before it was disappeared if you ever need it.

I told you Frank had a very tough day in a Florence court a few days ago? Both prosecutor and judge ripping into him.

Reminds me the terrible CPJ claims about GM harrassing "journalist" Frank are still posted. We can go eyeball to eyeball with them with your reporting from Seattle etc.

Pete
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