Judge Massei Sentencing Report     The Meredith Kercher Fund     The Murder Of Meredith Kercher Wiki     True Justice For Meredith Kercher     Judge Nencini Sentencing Report 


Last visit was: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:10 am
It is currently Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:10 am
All times are UTC

Forum rules

XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -

Moderators: Nell, Ergon, Michael, Moderators


 Page 2 of 33 [ 8226 posts ]
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 33  Next
Author Message

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I also noted that Raffaele Sollecito's contact is saved as "Raffael/Jason".

Who is Jason?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

beans wrote:
I don't think Pj is DJ. Pj's phone number includes the Italian country code of 39.


Hi Beans. This creates a little mystery, as it doesn't look like that person is Italian since Knox's text is in English (where we often see her text in Italian to Italians). So, there is a question as to the identity of "PJ".

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
I also noted that Raffaele Sollecito's contact is saved as "Raffael/Jason".

Who is Jason?


yeah, I saw that. Odd!!!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Plus, needing drugs but having to go to the internet cafe doesn't seem like too good a system to me.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

dgfred wrote:
Plus, needing drugs but having to go to the internet cafe doesn't seem like too good a system to me.


It would be a pretty anonymous way of doing it though.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I found this article from Il Giornale.

Pj is Belgian according to the article and Ardak is Ardak Shaky. It was written in 2007.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Just to say, I know some people are interested in the cocaine dealer connection, but that wasn't our purpose in investigating and publishing the phone records. The phone records have importance as many little insights can be gleaned about Knox's relationships (and lack of them) in Perugia, as well as the level and nature of contact between Knox and Meredith and how that decreased/changed over time.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
I found this article from Il Giornale.

Pj is Belgian according to the article and Ardak is Ardak Shaky. It was written in 2007.



Isn't "Shaky" the individual Knox and Sollecito were recorded discussing in the police waiting room, how he was shady and haggling over whether or not he could have been involved in Meredith's murder?

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I certainly am but all of it is interesting to me. As you say- for the insight.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
I found this article from Il Giornale.

Pj is Belgian according to the article and Ardak is Ardak Shaky. It was written in 2007.



Isn't "Shaky" the individual Knox and Sollecito were recorded discussing in the police waiting room, how he was shady and haggling over whether or not he could have been involved in Meredith's murder?


Yes, that's the one.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
Just to say, I know some people are interested in the cocaine dealer connection, but that wasn't our purpose in investigating and publishing the phone records. The phone records have importance as many little insights can be gleaned about Knox's relationships (and lack of them) in Perugia, as well as the level and nature of contact between Knox and Meredith and how that decreased/changed over time.


What stands out to me is the lack of girlfriends. In her list is a man from Perugia who is now 38 years old. He must have been 31-32 when they met. He publishes his mobile number on online dating websites.

Amanda Knox apparently only had contact to women she could not avoid: her roommates.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I get the distinct impression that Knox didn't like female competition around "her" men.

Meredith "taking" Giacomo would not have gone down very well.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Sounds sick to me:

"My roommate was murdered the night before last. I was the first to come home and call the police." (to Spyros 03/11/2007 11:31:31)

"Im sure youve already heard but meredith was murdered last night and I was the first to come home and call the police" (to Pj 03/11/2007 00:04:03)
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
I get the distinct impression that Knox didn't like female competition around "her" men.

Meredith "taking" Giacomo would not have gone down very well.


I think you are right and I was one of those who did not give that much importance to the Giacomo/Meredith story. I changed my mind.

Amanda Knox can only be around women that she feels are no competition for her. Think MadPax.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
Sounds sick to me:

"My roommate was murdered the night before last. I was the first to come home and call the police." (to Spyros 03/11/2007 11:31:31)

"Im sure youve already heard but meredith was murdered last night and I was the first to come home and call the police" (to Pj 03/11/2007 00:04:03)


Cold as ice.

But, here's what Knox said on the 2 Nov:




https://twitter.com/santamariaxx/status ... 6410960896

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline beans


Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:00 am

Posts: 220

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The 389 following the country code is the area/city code which identifies it as a mobile phone. The area code on the sim card which we purchased for our mobile phone in Italy has the area code 39 which also identifies a mobile phone. So the probable answer is that Pj bough a sim card for his phone in Italy or bought the phone and sim card in Italy.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
I get the distinct impression that Knox didn't like female competition around "her" men.

Meredith "taking" Giacomo would not have gone down very well.


I think you are right and I was one of those who did not give that much importance to the Giacomo/Meredith story. I changed my mind.

Amanda Knox can only be around women that she feels are no competition for her. Think MadPax.



Well, consider, Knox already lost the boyfriend she lost her virginity to to her previous female housemate back in Seattle. I would bet money that was the very same housemate that she played the burglary/rape prank on. That was no prank...that was payback!!! Then, months later, her new female housemate over in Perugia comes along and takes the next boy she had her eye on.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

beans wrote:
The 389 following the country code is the area/city code which identifies it as a mobile phone. The area code on the sim card which we purchased for our mobile phone in Italy has the area code 39 which also identifies a mobile phone. So the probable answer is that Pj bough a sim card for his phone in Italy or bought the phone and sim card in Italy.



Thanks, Beans. That makes sense.

We still have to try and identify him though.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline jape


Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:57 pm

Posts: 107

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
A quick comment on Amanda Knox's phone records. Note her text to DJ on the 5 Nov where she tries to give the impression that she actually went to Meredith's memorial that was held in Peruigia.


Good catch! I missed that one. Unbelievable.

"Hi, I hope you are a bit ok. We just have had the remembrance moment for meredith on the piazza novembre. It was a strange feeling. But a good initiative. Take care."

Is Pj = DJ?


Jovana Popovic?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

jape wrote:
Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
A quick comment on Amanda Knox's phone records. Note her text to DJ on the 5 Nov where she tries to give the impression that she actually went to Meredith's memorial that was held in Peruigia.


Good catch! I missed that one. Unbelievable.

"Hi, I hope you are a bit ok. We just have had the remembrance moment for meredith on the piazza novembre. It was a strange feeling. But a good initiative. Take care."

Is Pj = DJ?


Jovana Popovic?


I don't think Amanda Knox was friends with Jovana Popovic. She was an acquaintance of Raffaele Sollecito. The article from Il Giallo I linked earlier said he was Belgian.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I just saw that Welshy from .org suggested that the message we attributed to Amanda Knox might have been sent from Pj to Amanda Knox.

The document is made of two parts. The first part deals with the messages that have been recovered from the memory of the phone. There are the received messages (ricevuti) and the sent messages (inviati).

The last three pages deal with the messages found on the SIM card. It does not say if these are sent or received messages. So which one is it?

If you look through the text messages you can see from the context that they have been received. So Welshy is right and the message about the memorial service is not a message Amanda sent to Pj, it is a message he sent to her.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Thanks, Welshy :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Posts: 497

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
Just to say, I know some people are interested in the cocaine dealer connection, but that wasn't our purpose in investigating and publishing the phone records. The phone records have importance as many little insights can be gleaned about Knox's relationships (and lack of them) in Perugia, as well as the level and nature of contact between Knox and Meredith and how that decreased/changed over time.


What I find interesting is how comfortable she was with Italian she spoke in complete sentences even using correct feminine or masculine endings. The lie about not understanding about the closed door of Meredith's can be put to rest.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Yes. Every one of the 'quirkiness' traits and excuses are falling by the wayside.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline astro


User avatar


Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 2:02 pm

Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Quote:

Well, consider, Knox already lost the boyfriend she lost her virginity to to her previous female housemate back in Seattle. I would bet money that was the very same housemate that she played the burglary/rape prank on. That was no prank...that was payback!!! Then, months later, her new female housemate over in Perugia comes along and takes the next boy she had her eye on.


Where is this story about her Seattle roommate taking her boyfriend? I never heard about this before. Thx.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

astro wrote:
Quote:

Well, consider, Knox already lost the boyfriend she lost her virginity to to her previous female housemate back in Seattle. I would bet money that was the very same housemate that she played the burglary/rape prank on. That was no prank...that was payback!!! Then, months later, her new female housemate over in Perugia comes along and takes the next boy she had her eye on.


Where is this story about her Seattle roommate taking her boyfriend? I never heard about this before. Thx.



Hi Astro. It's in Ninny Burleigh's book. She was given access to the family and those close to Knox.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

malvern wrote:
Michael wrote:
Just to say, I know some people are interested in the cocaine dealer connection, but that wasn't our purpose in investigating and publishing the phone records. The phone records have importance as many little insights can be gleaned about Knox's relationships (and lack of them) in Perugia, as well as the level and nature of contact between Knox and Meredith and how that decreased/changed over time.


What I find interesting is how comfortable she was with Italian she spoke in complete sentences even using correct feminine or masculine endings. The lie about not understanding about the closed door of Meredith's can be put to rest.



Hi Malvern. Absolutely, Knox's Italian was perfectly adequate. Just as was Sollecito's English.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I guess a 'Girl's Night Out' was out of the question unless Meredith dragged her along.

Busy, busy AK was.

hump-)

c-))

angel-)
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

dgfred wrote:
I guess a 'Girl's Night Out' was out of the question unless Meredith dragged her along.

Busy, busy AK was.

hump-)

c-))

angel-)



Oh, they did have a girl's night out...once. That was the night Knox ended up pouring a drink over the DJ's head and was only allowed to stay in the club because Meredith begged the security staff on her behalf, on the grounds that it would be unsafe to throw her out onto the streets on her own.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

More like unsafe for any males wandering around.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline The Bard


User avatar


Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:46 pm

Posts: 2486

Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Hey everyone - just wanted to thank Nell for her sterling work on the phone records! Great stuff Nell! It seems Amanda didn't have any female friends (No! Surely not!!!) and wanted to be the absolute centre of attention in the immediate aftermath of the crime (So unlike her). So sad to see Meredith's texts to her though. Again, no surprise to see all our instincts proved right - she was very kind and sensitive. Even Knox told the truth when she said that Meredith always looked out for her...

RIP Meredith :(

_________________
Top Profile 

Offline The Bard


User avatar


Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:46 pm

Posts: 2486

Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
dgfred wrote:
I guess a 'Girl's Night Out' was out of the question unless Meredith dragged her along.

Busy, busy AK was.

hump-)

c-))

angel-)



Oh, they did have a girl's night out...once. That was the night Knox ended up pouring a drink over the DJ's head and was only allowed to stay in the club because Meredith begged the security staff on her behalf, on the grounds that it would be unsafe to throw her out onto the streets on her own.


Was there ever any explanation given for the DJ drink drenching episode? Or was it just Amanda being Amanda?

_________________
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The Bard wrote:
Was there ever any explanation given for the DJ drink drenching episode? Or was it just Amanda being Amanda?


Hey Bard, very nice to see you :)

No, no explanation was ever given. Amanda just did it out of the blue.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Thanks to Methos from org for pointing out a minor error in the spreadsheet!

The telephone number 0755729931 in the spread sheet for the day 08/10/2007 at 17:07:26 is correct, but it is wrongly attributed by me.

I found the number through Google. Had I clicked on the link to the original website of the pizzeria, I would have noticed that Pizzeria Pompei has only one "9" in their phone number, not two.

If you look further in Google you find this which attributes the telephone number in question to a print and copy shop called African Call.

I will correct that later and update the pdf.

Please let me know if you find anything else. Thank you.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

nell wrote:
If you look further in Google you find this which attributes the telephone number in question to a print and copy shop called African Call.


It's also an Internet cafe, it's close to the cottage. It's probably the Internet cafe Knox used to Skype and send her emails.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The Bard wrote:
Hey everyone - just wanted to thank Nell for her sterling work on the phone records! Great stuff Nell! It seems Amanda didn't have any female friends (No! Surely not!!!) and wanted to be the absolute centre of attention in the immediate aftermath of the crime (So unlike her). So sad to see Meredith's texts to her though. Again, no surprise to see all our instincts proved right - she was very kind and sensitive. Even Knox told the truth when she said that Meredith always looked out for her...

RIP Meredith :(


Hi Bard!

Good to see you and thank you. I would also like to say thank you to my source who has helped me behind the scenes.

We might still find out a few numbers or correct mistakes. It is a work in progress and was only meant to help provide a better overview over her phone traffic.

Just to let everyone know: The original spread sheet I created also includes the locations and towers. Should anyone be interested in it to conduct their own investigation, I am happy to provide them with a copy. For our purpose it was not practicable as the column takes too much space on the page. It would not have been very readable on the screen.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline astro


User avatar


Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 2:02 pm

Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
astro wrote:
Quote:

Well, consider, Knox already lost the boyfriend she lost her virginity to to her previous female housemate back in Seattle. I would bet money that was the very same housemate that she played the burglary/rape prank on. That was no prank...that was payback!!! Then, months later, her new female housemate over in Perugia comes along and takes the next boy she had her eye on.


Where is this story about her Seattle roommate taking her boyfriend? I never heard about this before. Thx.



Hi Astro. It's in Ninny Burleigh's book. She was given access to the family and those close to Knox.


th-) Thank you Michael and Nell for providing the phone records/text information!
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Regarding allegations from Amanda Knox supporters on Bruce Fischer's forum of having used their work


I was made aware of comments written on Bruce Fischer's notorious cesspit called Injustice In Perugia website that members of his forum are accusing me of having used their spreadsheet to speed up my work.

This is false.

I have started from scratch, on a blank page and I used Amanda Knox's phone records as source plus the printout from text messages, the Massei sentencing report and Google to attribute the owners to their respective phone numbers.

I will seize the opportunity and point out the obvious, that it is IIP who have used information provided by us to complete their work.

I have uploaded my spreadsheet (according to my timezone) on the 7th of August 2:35 am. Hans has uploaded his improved table on the 7th of August 3:01 am. Needless to say that I could not possibly have used a document that was not in public domain yet.

Both screenshots have been taken with the same timezone in both profiles:

Image

Image

Which leads me to the next issue. Those of you who are familiar with former versions of IIP's "Phone Activity Table" know that before Amanda Knox's scanned text messages were made available on our forum, IIP's table was famous for the glaring voids rather than information. Where was Bruno? Where was Pj? Were they attributed in former versions? No, they were not. Why not?

The scanned text messages were uploaded 3 hours before they published their revised version including names they could not have matched without this document and names they had not included in former publications.

Image


In the IIP version circulated before we published the never before seen text messages recovered from Amanda Knox's phone names like Pj and Lorenzo were not included. They could only be matched by comparing the date and time of the timestamp found on the printout of the recovered text messages with the phone records. See for example the 05/11/2007.

Image

Image


Juve, Ardak, Lorenzo and others were missing before we uploaded the document. See 24/10/2007 and 26/10/2007.

Image

Image

I think the facts speak for themselves.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Thanks Nell, caught them bang to rights doing what they always do, which is to copy us and then have the audacity to tell bald face lies about us copying "their" work. One must expect this sort of slander from people who it seems not only run a campaign on behalf of Amanda Knox based on slander and smear, but base their very own existence it. They live to smear others. This is exactly why they are attracted to supporting Knox, like attracts like, they share the same pathology. There may be a very few exceptions and the odd dupe among them, but they are indeed rare.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
astro wrote:
Quote:

Well, consider, Knox already lost the boyfriend she lost her virginity to to her previous female housemate back in Seattle. I would bet money that was the very same housemate that she played the burglary/rape prank on. That was no prank...that was payback!!! Then, months later, her new female housemate over in Perugia comes along and takes the next boy she had her eye on.


Where is this story about her Seattle roommate taking her boyfriend? I never heard about this before. Thx.



Hi Astro. It's in Ninny Burleigh's book. She was given access to the family and those close to Knox.



Hi Astro,

Like Michael said, the source is Nina Burleigh's book "The Fatal Gift of Beauty".

Quote:
She also had sex for the first time with a guy named Kyle. It was traumatic, though, because Kyle ended up being a cad. “They had sex, and then Kyle left her. She was devastated because then he started dating her roommate. I was angry, and I tried to convince her to be angry. She was just hurt. I was like, ‘You shouldn’t be hurt. You should be pissed.’ Vengeful? Never.”


I could not figure out who the quote is attributed to though. Probably a family member that was being interviewed by the author. To be angry is not good advice. I would have tried moving on and looking forward as hard as this might seem, but how you are going to get anywhere by getting angry on top of it all is beyond me.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
Thanks Nell, caught them bang to rights doing what they always do, which is to copy us and then have the audacity to tell bald face lies about us copying "their" work. One must expect this sort of slander from people who it seems not only run a campaign on behalf of Amanda Knox based on slander and smear, but base their very own existence it. They live to smear others. This is exactly why they are attracted to supporting Knox, like attracts like, they share the same pathology. There may be a very few exceptions and the odd dupe among them, but they are indeed rare.


Exactly Michael.

LondonJohn on Bruce Fischer's forum suggests that Hans has based his work on the same documentation I have. I would like to know how this is possible as the text messages have never been published before.

It also begs the question if they had it, why have they waited until we published them to include it into their records and then rushed to update their document when I announced I would soon post the spread sheet?

Just wait for Bruce Fischer to silently upload the document to his servers and then claim "it's always been there". We should be used to it by now.

Image
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline astro


User avatar


Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 2:02 pm

Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
astro wrote:
Quote:

Well, consider, Knox already lost the boyfriend she lost her virginity to to her previous female housemate back in Seattle. I would bet money that was the very same housemate that she played the burglary/rape prank on. That was no prank...that was payback!!! Then, months later, her new female housemate over in Perugia comes along and takes the next boy she had her eye on.


Where is this story about her Seattle roommate taking her boyfriend? I never heard about this before. Thx.



Hi Astro. It's in Ninny Burleigh's book. She was given access to the family and those close to Knox.




Hi Astro,

Like Michael said, the source is Nina Burleigh's book "The Fatal Gift of Beauty".

Quote:
She also had sex for the first time with a guy named Kyle. It was traumatic, though, because Kyle ended up being a cad. “They had sex, and then Kyle left her. She was devastated because then he started dating her roommate. I was angry, and I tried to convince her to be angry. She was just hurt. I was like, ‘You shouldn’t be hurt. You should be pissed.’ Vengeful? Never.”


I could not figure out who the quote is attributed to though. Probably a family member that was being interviewed by the author. To be angry is not good advice. I would have tried moving on and looking forward as hard as this might seem, but how you are going to get anywhere by getting angry on top of it all is beyond me.


Thanks Nell!!
I can't help but think that this whole story by NB doesn't add up. That article (I can't remember off hand) where her former classmate said, "She had what in polite terms you'd call a lot of close male friends." Maybe this particular man was different or for some other reason she was jealous of her roommate.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Just for the record

For better readability some of the pages of the scanned documents I uploaded concerning Amanda Knox's phone traffic and text messages were rotated by me to make them easier to read on the screen.

This is how I can tell that Bruce Fischer did not upload the original document to his website but instead downloaded the document from our site.

In the original document, the pages are all in portrait orientation. The one uploaded to Bruce Fischer's copycat website has been sourced from us.

Other than that, the documents are of course unaltered.


Image
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
Just wait for Bruce Fischer to silently upload the document to his servers and then claim "it's always been there". We should be used to it by now.


That's how these guys role. It's in their make-up. Integrity? What's that?

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Astro wrote:
Thanks Nell!!
I can't help but think that this whole story by NB doesn't add up. That article (I can't remember off hand) where her former classmate said, "She had what in polite terms you'd call a lot of close male friends." Maybe this particular man was different or for some other reason she was jealous of her roommate.



We may never know, for Knox and her family are extremely secretive about this event, aren't they? That's because they fully understand the implications of it.

It also explains something else...why the "pranked" housemate never came forward herself to relate the pranking story. She would have recognised the parallel to what happened in this case. She probably knows she wouldn't come off sounding very nice herself, having swiped her housemate's boyfriend. But it also explains why she's never come forward to support Knox, either. Her ex-roommates are never among her supporters from Seattle/the US...there's a reason for that!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline SwanseaJack


User avatar


Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:26 am

Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:01 am   Post subject: Re: MUCH MORE GILL   

Ergon wrote:
Professor Gill, who wrote "Misleading DNA Evidence" and made such public pronouncements about the case, now appears unwilling to defend what he said. Swansea Jack was puzzled by some of his misstatements compared to the list of mistakes I found in the book so sent an e-mail to him requesting clarification on the blood in the bathroom. Here is his e-mail, and reply.

The following speaks for itself.


Thanks Ergon it is common knowledge that the only other trace of Sollecito's dna was found on a cigarette butt in the kitchen this was a mixed sample of Sollecito and Knox dna so could not possibly have been the source of the supposed "contamination". I have observed the Knox supporters speculate that Sollecito's dna was transferred from the outer door handle of Meredith's bedroom. If my memory serves me correctly there is also a reference to this during the BBC radio programme.
I addressed this in a further email to Prof Gill.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline jhansigirl


User avatar


Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:58 am

Posts: 307

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The Bard wrote:
Hey everyone - just wanted to thank Nell for her sterling work on the phone records! Great stuff Nell! It seems Amanda didn't have any female friends (No! Surely not!!!) and wanted to be the absolute centre of attention in the immediate aftermath of the crime (So unlike her). So sad to see Meredith's texts to her though. Again, no surprise to see all our instincts proved right - she was very kind and sensitive. Even Knox told the truth when she said that Meredith always looked out for her...

RIP Meredith :(


Thanks Nell.

th-)

_________________
The truth is "hate speech" only to those who have something to hide.- Michael Rivero
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I feel almost certain, that what happened back in Seattle, is the key to Knox's motive for murdering Meredith.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline SwanseaJack


User avatar


Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:26 am

Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:19 am   Post subject: Re: MUCH MORE GILL   

SwanseaJack wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Professor Gill, who wrote "Misleading DNA Evidence" and made such public pronouncements about the case, now appears unwilling to defend what he said. Swansea Jack was puzzled by some of his misstatements compared to the list of mistakes I found in the book so sent an e-mail to him requesting clarification on the blood in the bathroom. Here is his e-mail, and reply.

The following speaks for itself.


Thanks Ergon it is common knowledge that the only other trace of Sollecito's dna was found on a cigarette butt in the kitchen this was a mixed sample of Sollecito and Knox dna so could not possibly have been the source of the supposed "contamination". I have observed the Knox supporters speculate that Sollecito's dna was transferred from the outer door handle of Meredith's bedroom. If my memory serves me correctly there is also a reference to this during the BBC radio programme.
I addressed this in a further email to Prof Gill.

Attached is the first part of that particular correspondence.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Just a FYI. Nell is currently working on getting translations for Knox's text messages that are in Italian, so those will be posted as soon as they're ready. Thanks :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

SwanseaJack -

Hi Jack, thanks for going to all the trouble of communicating with Peter Gill and sharing the fruits of you labour with us. It's very interesting, Thank you!!! :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell

Thanks for all of these files, the conversations need close scrutiny.

Very interesting.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Hi, Swansea. The outer door handle was dusted for fingerprints, which revealed Raffaele Sollecito on FR 68 and 72 (TMOMK Wiki) That might be why it wasn't swabbed for DNA.

Critics miss the point no blood was found on the outer door handle. Clearly, it had been wiped after Guede fled.

As the bra clasp had remained on the floor/not been touched or picked up for six weeks, I do not believe there was any secondary transfer of DNA at all.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Yes, it's quite something, the fact that if the police had not found evidence proving Mr Lumumba was not involved, he would have remained in prison.

If Knox had then simply got to leave to America, she in no way would ever have started on about being hit or any other rubbish like that in relation to Mr Patrick Lumumba.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Spiro: Hey u. just ctiecking [checking?] if rts [it's?] all gd at v.rork [work?] and ur not upset. currently on my bed watching t.v X



Wonder what would have been upsetting at work?

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

currently on my bed watching tv X


So he was just the guy from the shop who sends big kisses?

Seems he was interacting, making appointments: do smt domain [tomorrow]

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

That doc with Knox's name at top, if Meredith's name is left is that her speaking (writing) or Knox?

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

zorba wrote:
That doc with Knox's name at top, if Meredith's name is left is that her speaking (writing) or Knox?


Hi Zorba,

If you are talking about the document that contains the text messages found on Knox's phone, it's as follows:

The first three pages are messages that were recovered from the memory of her phone and are divided into "sms received" (SMS ricevuti) and (starting on page 2) "sms sent" (SMS inviati).

On page 4 you find the messages that were recovered from her SIM card and they seem to be messages received only. There is no distinction made between received and sent and if you read them, you will probably find they all have been received.

So the page you are referring to is the first page, that means these are messages received, sent to her.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline The Bard


User avatar


Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:46 pm

Posts: 2486

Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
That doc with Knox's name at top, if Meredith's name is left is that her speaking (writing) or Knox?


Hi Zorba,

If you are talking about the document that contains the text messages found on Knox's phone, it's as follows:

The first three pages are messages that were recovered from the memory of her phone and are divided into "sms received" (SMS ricevuti) and (starting on page 2) "sms sent" (SMS inviati).

On page 4 you find the messages that were recovered from her SIM card and they seem to be messages received only. There is no distinction made between received and sent and if you read them, you will probably find they all have been received.

So the page you are referring to is the first page, that means these are messages received, sent to her.


FWIW, I have no doubt that Knox was very careful to delete any incriminating text messages she sent or received. I don't buy the 'I don't understand technology' defence she gave on the stand, when asked why she didn't delete messages. It's nonsense. A child of five knows how to delete messages, and someone as cunning as Knox would certainly have had the forethought to get rid of incriminating texts - either between herself and Meredith, herself and Raffaele or between herself and Federico. These SMS messages are just the tip of the iceberg imho. Either way, we know the information about her contacting Federico is there, because it was brought to court. To me this just suggests the information really was deleted from her phone and the police either retrieved it from her phone or his.

If she had the foresight to destroy her diary pages for October, she will have been smart enough to delete incriminating texts.

_________________
Top Profile 

Offline The Bard


User avatar


Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:46 pm

Posts: 2486

Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
The Bard wrote:
Was there ever any explanation given for the DJ drink drenching episode? Or was it just Amanda being Amanda?


Hey Bard, very nice to see you :)

No, no explanation was ever given. Amanda just did it out of the blue.


Lovely to see you too Michael! o-((

Forgive me, but isn't just assaulting someone with no reason just a tiny bit .... disturbed? This must be the story I saw recently by someone who witnessed her being violent in a nightclub in Perugia. I will find the screen cap. I put it down as gossip, but this must be the incident he was referring to.

_________________
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Who is Raffael/Jason?

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
Astro wrote:
Thanks Nell!!
I can't help but think that this whole story by NB doesn't add up. That article (I can't remember off hand) where her former classmate said, "She had what in polite terms you'd call a lot of close male friends." Maybe this particular man was different or for some other reason she was jealous of her roommate.



We may never know, for Knox and her family are extremely secretive about this event, aren't they? That's because they fully understand the implications of it.

It also explains something else...why the "pranked" housemate never came forward herself to relate the pranking story. She would have recognised the parallel to what happened in this case. She probably knows she wouldn't come off sounding very nice herself, having swiped her housemate's boyfriend. But it also explains why she's never come forward to support Knox, either. Her ex-roommates are never among her supporters from Seattle/the US...there's a reason for that!


My only thing about that is that IMO is it not swiping another's BF if the guy has already dumped the GF.

Hardly anyone has come forward... in the friend department.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
That doc with Knox's name at top, if Meredith's name is left is that her speaking (writing) or Knox?


Hi Zorba,

If you are talking about the document that contains the text messages found on Knox's phone, it's as follows:

The first three pages are messages that were recovered from the memory of her phone and are divided into "sms received" (SMS ricevuti) and (starting on page 2) "sms sent" (SMS inviati).

On page 4 you find the messages that were recovered from her SIM card and they seem to be messages received only. There is no distinction made between received and sent and if you read them, you will probably find they all have been received.

So the page you are referring to is the first page, that means these are messages received, sent to her.



Thanks, got it all now, went back to find the file, my thingy wouldn't open PDFs the other day.

Seems she was as familiar with these GUYS as she was with Sollecito. The one man, Juve, was excusing himself for having asked her for a coffee explaining his reasons for asking and saying he had a girlfriend.
Yet it was all Ciao bella from him.

Meredith signed each post with a kiss x, Knox never did.


Juve: Ok va bene, any way I wanted this caffe juste to know how was the things with work after u speak with patrik its not to go out with u I have my girl u know.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The Bard wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
That doc with Knox's name at top, if Meredith's name is left is that her speaking (writing) or Knox?


Hi Zorba,

If you are talking about the document that contains the text messages found on Knox's phone, it's as follows:

The first three pages are messages that were recovered from the memory of her phone and are divided into "sms received" (SMS ricevuti) and (starting on page 2) "sms sent" (SMS inviati).

On page 4 you find the messages that were recovered from her SIM card and they seem to be messages received only. There is no distinction made between received and sent and if you read them, you will probably find they all have been received.

So the page you are referring to is the first page, that means these are messages received, sent to her.


FWIW, I have no doubt that Knox was very careful to delete any incriminating text messages she sent or received. I don't buy the 'I don't understand technology' defence she gave on the stand, when asked why she didn't delete messages. It's nonsense. A child of five knows how to delete messages, and someone as cunning as Knox would certainly have had the forethought to get rid of incriminating texts - either between herself and Meredith, herself and Raffaele or between herself and Federico. These SMS messages are just the tip of the iceberg imho. Either way, we know the information about her contacting Federico is there, because it was brought to court. To me this just suggests the information really was deleted from her phone and the police either retrieved it from her phone or his.

If she had the foresight to destroy her diary pages for October, she will have been smart enough to delete incriminating texts.



I know my own phone, 100 messages and it says full, remove some messages. To reach a 100 takes no time, so either she had the phone new or the messages removed themselves, which would be very clever of it, as far as I know a phone doesn't remove your messages.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Knox to Spyros: Why do you always call me in the middle of the class? 1 cant today but r u tree tomorrow? lm also working tonight."
(scalding)

Knox to Spyros: Era un scerzo! Non tl preoccupi! Vuoi incontrarmi domani pomeriggio?
(apologising)
I was joking, don't worry, wanna meet tomorrow afternoon?

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

After which she settled down to a life of monogamy and non-attention.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

So you have Juve repeatedly inviting Noxa for coffee and calling her bella which is ordinary in Italy, but not ordinary when you keep doing it purely as a flirt.
And Spyros calling her up all the time during lessons.

Who are the others?

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Seems Sollecito had all that competition

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

You will have to wait until tomorrow for a complete pdf, but this is what I can give you so far, text messages located in the memory of Amanda Knox's phone.

This does not include the text messages found on her SIM card.

EDIT: I forgot to add, the blue font colour indicates the text message was written in English and did not need to be translated. Everything else is translated from Italian.

Image

Image
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline SwanseaJack


User avatar


Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:26 am

Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
I found this article from Il Giornale.

Pj is Belgian according to the article and Ardak is Ardak Shaky. It was written in 2007.



Isn't "Shaky" the individual Knox and Sollecito were recorded discussing in the police waiting room, how he was shady and haggling over whether or not he could have been involved in Meredith's murder?


The very same, one Mr Hicham Khiri.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline SwanseaJack


User avatar


Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:26 am

Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, Swansea. The outer door handle was dusted for fingerprints, which revealed Raffaele Sollecito on FR 68 and 72 (TMOMK Wiki) That might be why it wasn't swabbed for DNA.

Critics miss the point no blood was found on the outer door handle. Clearly, it had been wiped after Guede fled.

As the bra clasp had remained on the floor/not been touched or picked up for six weeks, I do not believe there was any secondary transfer of DNA at all.


Hi Ergon, you are quite correct, if you look at the emai my point a,Sollecito,s dna was located in only 1 other place , a cigarette butt in the kitchen where it was mixed with Knox,s.
b, There is no evidence Sollecito touched the door handle.
cThere is no evidence of secondary transfer Sollecito' representation is strong.

Gill's response: "You are correct in everything you say" Gill concedes all points. Which begs the question, why did Gill write the chapter relating to this case in his book? Was it just for the publicity he knew it would be guaranteed to generate? His writing is certainly not echoed by his emails
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

After all the talk about Amanda Knox cooking with Raffaele Sollecito's kitchen knife, preparing meals, I wondered about this message of hers, sent to Raffaele Sollecito:

"When is dinner? I'm hungry, should I eat at home?" 26/10/2007 21:20:28

Sounds demanding.

EDIT: According to her book Waiting To Be Heard, she met Raffaele Sollecito on the 25th of October, only one day before she sent that message.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

His reply back is rather snippy IMO too.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:39 pm   Post subject: WHO'S JASON?   

Re: the texts to Raffael/Jason: I guess no one's seen the Friday the 13th movies then. The whole genre of slasher movies?


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline hugo


Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:20 pm

Posts: 285

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I've never seen those films, because I won't watch that type thing, but I did mention the Jason connection over at .org. Maybe he showed her that meat-cleaver picture online and they both thought it was cool.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I watched the first few when they came out, but they get boring quickly. Halloween, with Jamie Lee Curtis, was my favourite. But what really scared me? Hitchcock's Psycho and Rear Window, and the old Hammer Studios films with Christopher Lee as Dracula.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline corpusvile


Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:38 pm

Posts: 349

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

hugo wrote:
I've never seen those films, because I won't watch that type thing, but I did mention the Jason connection over at .org. Maybe he showed her that meat-cleaver picture online and they both thought it was cool.


I reckon that's who she probably meant as afaik Raff is a horror fan. Conceivably they could have also meant Jason Thompson, an American writer who wrote an encyclopedia of Manga called Manga: The Complete Guide. Raff possibly could have had the book & maybe Knox seen it. Thompson also created a web comic called The Stiff which is apparently inspired by horror manga although I haven't read it. This seems a shade obscure for Knox though so I reckon it is indeed Jason from the F13 films.
Welsh serial killer Peter Moore called himself Jason also after the F13 flicks btw although I dunno if he was simply trying to cop an insanity plea.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

dgfred wrote:
His reply back is rather snippy IMO too.


Either I have overlooked something or you attributed the wrong message to Raffaele. I have looked at the printouts and I don't see a reply.

The only messages we have from the 26/10 are from Amanda to Raffaele.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Posts: 497

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The questioning of AK is now very much a part of those who support RS. Vanessapitta brought up something on twitter that I hadn't given much thought to . Simply put why didn't she open Filomena's door or at least call her while at the cottage. She knew she went to a party the night before but she easily could have been back at home and sleeping at 10:30a.m In one of Ak's interviews she talks about arriving home and thinking maybe someone just left the door open or maybe they put put the garbage out. She doesn't say Meredith , which means she suggests it could have been Filomena or Laura. Why when she says she started to feel uneasy didn't she check Filomena's door like Meredith's found it unlocked and just opened it ? We are supposed to believe that she cannot do this simple check to rule out a sleeping flatemate.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline corpusvile


Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:38 pm

Posts: 349

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

malvern wrote:
The questioning of AK is now very much a part of those who support RS. Vanessapitta brought up something on twitter that I hadn't given much thought to . Simply put why didn't she open Filomena's door or at least call her while at the cottage. She knew she went to a party the night before but she easily could have been back at home and sleeping at 10:30a.m In one of Ak's interviews she talks about arriving home and thinking maybe someone just left the door open or maybe they put put the garbage out. She doesn't say Meredith , which means she suggests it could have been Filomena or Laura. Why when she says she started to feel uneasy didn't she check Filomena's door like Meredith's found it unlocked and just opened it ? We are supposed to believe that she cannot do this simple check to rule out a sleeping flatemate.


I suspect she wanted Filomena to find Meredith actually as a diversion.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Hi, Jack, that is a good question. Career enhancement? Like many experts he got sucked into the case and wrote a book based on what other people told him instead of verifying.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Posts: 497

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Absolutely, But showering and not even checking the rooms when she herself was puzzled about the front door open and the other odd signs. Filomena could have been home. The story is so full of holes even without the bathmat shuffle /mop expedition.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

malvern wrote:
The questioning of AK is now very much a part of those who support RS. Vanessapitta brought up something on twitter that I hadn't given much thought to . Simply put why didn't she open Filomena's door or at least call her while at the cottage. She knew she went to a party the night before but she easily could have been back at home and sleeping at 10:30a.m In one of Ak's interviews she talks about arriving home and thinking maybe someone just left the door open or maybe they put put the garbage out. She doesn't say Meredith , which means she suggests it could have been Filomena or Laura. Why when she says she started to feel uneasy didn't she check Filomena's door like Meredith's found it unlocked and just opened it ? We are supposed to believe that she cannot do this simple check to rule out a sleeping flatemate.


Hi Malvern,

This point is not new. It has been discussed in the past when analysing her email.

The way Knox described the situation she revealed guilty knowledge. Fearing for Meredith when there was no reason to do so (according to her own narrative). Freaking out over an unflushed toilet but not over blood in the bathroom, taking a shower there. Filomena's closed door is another example of her incoherent story. After wondering who left the door open and who left so much blood in the bathroom to leave a big stain on the bathmat, one would assume she might have checked all rooms. But to make her narrative work, she has to avoid to discover the burglary, otherwise she has no excuse for not calling the police right away.

Later, when people started wondering, she adds details to her story that don't make sense, like trying to look into Meredith's window climbing outside the balcony and peering through the keyhole of her door, later trying to break it down, then later all of a sudden she did not think it was that important that the door was locked because Meredith used to do that.

Knox and Sollecito did not mention a word to the postal police about being so worried about Meredith that they had already tried to break down the door, instead, the first thing they do is show them Filomena's room.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Posts: 497

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Thanks Nell I guess I just focused before on Meredith's door . Filomena's party was not so far away that retuning home wasn't a possibility. Opening her bedroom door to check is just something she would do, especially since it was possible someone just,stepped out.I suppose she needed to invent the shower and hang around to give proof they were not returning. The waiting to call both girls until after she was at RS prolonged the mystery for Amanda .
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:43 am   Post subject: MISTAKES IN GILL'S BOOK.   

@Jack, re the bra clasp and door handle he might have put some thought into how he phrased it in his book. I'll point to 5.13.3 Gloves p.148-9 where he refers to a study in which cotton swatches were prepared with 25 ul of blood, then experiments conducted to see if DNA profiles could be transferred from primary to secondary substrates. He gives 'high credibility' to the defense proposition that investigators walked around touching door handles then 'handled the bra clasp' and therefore "Sollecito's DNA was transferred as a result of cross contamination".

Yet his own chart Figure 5.4 (ibid) shows that the average transfer from latex gloves with light to heavy contact or contamination (touching, rubbing) comes to 50-60% of alleles and 8000-18,000 RFU. Since you and I know that is not evidenced by the actual strength of the DNA on the bra clasp, it's a pity he didn't conclude that Sollecito's DNA was deposited there by direct transfer i.e he touched the bra clasp with his fingers.

I've listed many mistakes, but the rest can wait until I write my review of the whole book. He concludes that this case is a miscarriage of justice, which is a very strong statement.

But no where does he show how that is so. Very disappointing.

ETA: Thanks to Hammerite on ORG for pointing out, FR 68 and 72 (RS fingerprints) were not found on the door handle, "they were actually located on the door surface over to the left near the hinges". My criticism of Gill still stands. And, the door handle was dusted for fingerprints, and came up clear, so it likely was wiped down.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Knox sounds uptight in general.


She snapped at the caller, Spyros, but then explained it away in a second call a few minutes later, saying it was a joke, but, it was not.

Reading all of these messages, with the kisses and more, all from guys, I can't help think, with Knox calling them too, Knox separately asking Juve and some other guy asking to play, Bruno sending all his kisses, I mean how many guys is this already?

And in relationship to what happened to Meredith, that word ''saved'' sounds horrible, so is it: Knox had men around her like flies
but it was not just them,
she actively encouraged them all,
going for coffees,
playing guitar,
but there are no other females.

So much attention went right to her head or so?

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:40 am   Post subject: MORE ECHR IDIOCY FROM IIP   

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/v ... 46#p146246

Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Post by LondonJohn » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:53 am

Quote:
Michael on .net seems to think that there are no instances of someone getting a retrial de novo after an ECHR ruling that the accused was denied the right to a fair trial first time out.

It really doesn't take long to find plenty such cases. Here's one:

CASE OF PISANO v. ITALY

Ooh look! It concerned Italy! And plenty of other interesting similarities to the Knox/Sollecito case. Interesting too that Italy tried to appeal the ECHRs decision to rule the application admissible, and to then appeal its ruling that Pisano's right to a fair trial was violated (and that a retrial was the appropriate remedy).


Um, no, it didn't order a retrial, ECHR ruled against Pisano even though he had been treated unfairly but when the decision was appealed to the Grand Chamber it was admitted. In the meantime however Pisano requested and received a retrial through the national court and was subsequently acquitted.

Meredith's Mobile Phones

Post by LondonJohn » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:20 am

Quote:
(In a related area, I still don't think that either Nell or many other pro-guilt commentators understand the reality of Knox's calls to Kercher's two mobile phones around midday on the 2nd.....)


If you have a point, do tell. But Knox only called ONE of Meredith's phones that day. I don't think you understand the reality of which phone was called, and WHY. Massei did.

LondonJohn, doubling down: CASE OF ÖCALAN v. TURKEY

Post by LondonJohn » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:30 am
Quote:
There was another interesting case in Turkey - Ocalan v Turkey - in which the ECHR found a violation of Art 6 and ruled that the only appropriate remedy was a retrial. Turkey refused to follow the ECHR ruling. It's one of the main stumbling blocks regarding Turkey's admission to the EU.

Many pro-guilt commentators are still banging on about the ECHR having no constitutional jurisdiction over sovereign states. And that's correct. However, if any country wishes to remain a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights, then it basically has to accept the European Court's rulings and remedies. Otherwise it risks being kicked out as a signatory, and also potentially faces wider issues in its participation in the European Project.

If the ECHR rules that Knox's Art 6 rights were violated WRT the criminal slander conviction, Italy will either have to accept the ruling and apply the directed remedies, or it will ignore the ruling and risk wider ramifications.


This was a particularly difficult case involving the death penalty of a Kurdish leader accused of terrorism, but sorry, ECHR did NOT order a retrial and in its final judgment issued 18 March 2014 which London John seems not aware of either, generally found against Ocalan, and where it did find for him, awarded:
Quote:
Just satisfaction (Article 41) The court held that Turkey was to pay Mr Öcalan 25,000 euros in respect of costs and expenses


Then there's discussion how they can apply for relief from extradition while ECHR considers a case. Sorry, such interim measures are only temporary and granted in extreme cases of irreparable harm, like death or torture http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_In ... es_ENG.pdf

And the US isn't a signatory to the convention therefore not bound by it, duh.

Still waiting to hear where ECHR ordered a national court to do a retrial.

Could we have an intelligent argument from an educated person next time?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Congratulations, Nell. All those folk who "weren't going to respond to NET" are responding to us. I wonder why? ;)
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zinnia


User avatar


Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:57 am

Posts: 56

Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

In this talk about fingerprints and RS only on a cig butt and MK's door handle, if you look through Stefanoni, there was also one in/about Filomena's room, no?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline The Machine


Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:43 pm

Posts: 2306

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I've written a guest blog article about the guerrilla PR campaign and the Twitter images for Justice4ever:

http://justice4ever.com/2014/08/amanda- ... #more-2257

Please tweet. Thanks.
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

zorba wrote:
Knox sounds uptight in general.


She snapped at the caller, Spyros, but then explained it away in a second call a few minutes later, saying it was a joke, but, it was not.

Reading all of these messages, with the kisses and more, all from guys, I can't help think, with Knox calling them too, Knox separately asking Juve and some other guy asking to play, Bruno sending all his kisses, I mean how many guys is this already?

And in relationship to what happened to Meredith, that word ''saved'' sounds horrible, so is it: Knox had men around her like flies
but it was not just them,
she actively encouraged them all,
going for coffees,
playing guitar,
but there are no other females.

So much attention went right to her head or so?


What is apparent is that Knox handed out her mobile number to anyone who would ask for it.

No girls except her roommates.

Knox does not seem to have made many new contacts at her university or through her friends, like Meredith, which would have been the normal and more natural thing to do.

Everything seems to be related somehow to nightlife.

I believe the inexperienced Raffaele Sollecito was swept of his feet by the vehemency with which she flirted. He misjudged her completely and thought it was because she saw something special in him. For her, he was just a dime in a dozen.

If the stories from Knox's family are true that she was a late bloomer and inexperienced, I don't think it was due to her not trying.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Translation of the text messages recovered from Amanda Knox's phone


Please find attached a translation of the text messages recovered from Amanda Knox's phone.

The document is composed of two parts, the messages that were located in her phone's memory and messages that were located in the SIM card (3484673590). The first part contains received and sent messages, the second part has no headings other than that the messages were recovered from the SIM card. The content suggests the second part only includes received messages.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I'm getting muddled up,

is Juve a different person to Shaky what's his name?

I was looking at a Facebook link to a name someone provided here or on PMF.org, I thought Juve was Shaky?
Person I looked at lived in Belgium now.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline hugo


Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:20 pm

Posts: 285

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Juve and Shaky (Hicham Khiri) are two different people, yes. Though they did know each other, and it was Juve who introduced Hicham to Knox once, at Le Chic. Juve, an Algerian, worked at Le Chic and got Knox the job there -- he also seems to have had the chore of making sure she actually turned up. Hicham, aka Shaky after his dance style, is a Moroccan, about 28 at the time, who had a clothes shop and also worked nights as a pizza chef. He was friendly with Sophie Purton and often hung out with her and Meredith in clubs, including on Halloween.

The English translation of his evidence at the wiki is the first thing that pops up for his name on Google.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

hugo wrote:
Juve and Shaky (Hicham Khiri) are two different people, yes. Though they did know each other, and it was Juve who introduced Hicham to Knox once, at Le Chic. Juve, an Algerian, worked at Le Chic and got Knox the job there -- he also seems to have had the chore of making sure she actually turned up. Hicham, aka Shaky after his dance style, is a Moroccan, about 28 at the time, who had a clothes shop and also worked nights as a pizza chef. He was friendly with Sophie Purton and often hung out with her and Meredith in clubs, including on Halloween.

The English translation of his evidence at the wiki is the first thing that pops up for his name on Google.


Hi Hugo,

I thought the same reading through her text messages where one sent by Juve says the following:

"Ciao amanda come now to chic patrik says ok move u r ass" 11/10/2007 21:06
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Amanda Knox describes in her book how everyone was hitting on her, including Juve and how unsafe this whole situation made her feel. Funny if you think about it, especially after reading her messages it seems it might have been the exact other way around.

"Ok all right, any way i wanted this caffe juste to know how was the things with work after u speak with patrik its not to go out with u i have my girl u know." 03/10/ 19:09
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Posts: 497

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I picked up on that too Nell . Juve sounds like he was offering to go for coffee to hear how things were at work, problems with Patrick? Support for Amanda , but making it clear he had a girlfriend. Why does Meredith ask if she needed saving or rescuing ?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

malvern wrote:
I picked up on that too Nell . Juve sounds like he was offering to go for coffee to hear how things were at work, problems with Patrick? Support for Amanda , but making it clear he had a girlfriend. Why does Meredith ask if she needed saving or rescuing ?


Meredith's text message is revealing.

Supportive and kind even though Amanda Knox was known to be a pain in the butt.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
Congratulations, Nell. All those folk who "weren't going to respond to NET" are responding to us. I wonder why? ;)


I saw it. Bruce Fischer has one of his famous tantrums again.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline The Bard


User avatar


Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:46 pm

Posts: 2486

Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
malvern wrote:
I picked up on that too Nell . Juve sounds like he was offering to go for coffee to hear how things were at work, problems with Patrick? Support for Amanda , but making it clear he had a girlfriend. Why does Meredith ask if she needed saving or rescuing ?


Meredith's text message is revealing.

Supportive and kind even though Amanda Knox was known to be a pain in the butt.


It's striking isn't it. And those slightly plaintive texts from AK asking what she's up to on Halloween. She must have felt very left out. And how come she didn't already know what MK was up to? Had she all but moved in with Raffaele by that point? I would have thought she'd have seen Meredith enough to know what she was planning, especially since MK really loved Halloween. It certainly seems like Meredith was distancing herself massively by this stage. I imagine Amanda had this a lot from other girls. She only seemed accepted by men, most of whom just wanted to get her into bed.

_________________
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ciao. i have to follow my friends drinking since i guess i came
out with them. let' do smt cool another day.


Yes, this too, seems condescending if that's the word, like she doesn't feel like one of them, my friends, since I guess I came out with them but it doesn't feel like what, she is with/one of them?

Is that her?

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The Bard wrote:
Nell wrote:
malvern wrote:
I picked up on that too Nell . Juve sounds like he was offering to go for coffee to hear how things were at work, problems with Patrick? Support for Amanda , but making it clear he had a girlfriend. Why does Meredith ask if she needed saving or rescuing ?


Meredith's text message is revealing.

Supportive and kind even though Amanda Knox was known to be a pain in the butt.


It's striking isn't it. And those slightly plaintive texts from AK asking what she's up to on Halloween. She must have felt very left out. And how come she didn't already know what MK was up to? Had she all but moved in with Raffaele by that point? I would have thought she'd have seen Meredith enough to know what she was planning, especially since MK really loved Halloween. It certainly seems like Meredith was distancing herself massively by this stage. I imagine Amanda had this a lot from other girls. She only seemed accepted by men, most of whom just wanted to get her into bed.



Sounds like there was Meredith, announcing normally too, that she had an appointment to dine with her friends, but Knox only seems to have made quick appointments with males.

Wonder what this feeling was that we went down, I actually can sense it but never quite describe it.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

hugo wrote:
Juve and Shaky (Hicham Khiri) are two different people, yes. Though they did know each other, and it was Juve who introduced Hicham to Knox once, at Le Chic. Juve, an Algerian, worked at Le Chic and got Knox the job there -- he also seems to have had the chore of making sure she actually turned up. Hicham, aka Shaky after his dance style, is a Moroccan, about 28 at the time, who had a clothes shop and also worked nights as a pizza chef. He was friendly with Sophie Purton and often hung out with her and Meredith in clubs, including on Halloween.

The English translation of his evidence at the wiki is the first thing that pops up for his name on Google.



Thanks Hugo,

and the other guy with the name beginning with an A?

the one I was looking at, I thought that was Juve, living in Belgium.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

zorba wrote:
Ciao. i have to follow my friends drinking since i guess i came
out with them. let' do smt cool another day.


Yes, this too, seems condescending if that's the word, like she doesn't feel like one of them, my friends, since I guess I came out with them but it doesn't feel like what, she is with/one of them?

Is that her?


Hi Zorba,

That is a message from Spyros to Amanda. All messages recovered from the SIM card are received ones.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

zorba wrote:
hugo wrote:
Juve and Shaky (Hicham Khiri) are two different people, yes. Though they did know each other, and it was Juve who introduced Hicham to Knox once, at Le Chic. Juve, an Algerian, worked at Le Chic and got Knox the job there -- he also seems to have had the chore of making sure she actually turned up. Hicham, aka Shaky after his dance style, is a Moroccan, about 28 at the time, who had a clothes shop and also worked nights as a pizza chef. He was friendly with Sophie Purton and often hung out with her and Meredith in clubs, including on Halloween.

The English translation of his evidence at the wiki is the first thing that pops up for his name on Google.



Thanks Hugo,

and the other guy with the name beginning with an A?

the one I was looking at, I thought that was Juve, living in Belgium.


Hi Zorba,

Ardak was, according to this article in Giallo, Maghrebian. I don't know anything else about that guy as Knox does not mention him in her book.

Juve was, according to Amanda Knox, a friend of Laura who introduced the two because Knox said she was looking for a job. He was working at Patrick Lumumba's bar Le Chic.

The Belgian guy, according to the article in Giallo, was Pj.

I saw this comment from MrPink on .org saying "Incidentally, "PJ" is "Swiss Peter" from Ficarra's testimony. Don't know if he's really Belgian. Ficarra said he was a friend of Knox who had visited the cottage."

I don't have any more information on this guy. None of these guys are mentioned in Knox's book. I wonder why.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline hugo


Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:20 pm

Posts: 285

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

There's quite a bit of phone contact between Knox and this 'Ardak' -- I assume that the name is logged on Knox's phone as such -- but court testimony and reporters' accounts don't seem to mention this person. (And, as Nell says, Knox's book doesn't say anything either.)

ilGiornale.it says Ardak was 'Maghrebi' (North African) like Shaky, but it's not a North African name. It comes from Kazakhstan, where it can be either a boy's or a girl's name. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Ardaks of both sexes have turned up all over Europe.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The Bard wrote:
Michael wrote:
The Bard wrote:
Was there ever any explanation given for the DJ drink drenching episode? Or was it just Amanda being Amanda?


Hey Bard, very nice to see you :)

No, no explanation was ever given. Amanda just did it out of the blue.


Lovely to see you too Michael! o-((

Forgive me, but isn't just assaulting someone with no reason just a tiny bit .... disturbed? This must be the story I saw recently by someone who witnessed her being violent in a nightclub in Perugia. I will find the screen cap. I put it down as gossip, but this must be the incident he was referring to.


Well, here's just a speculative idea. Knox craves attention, she needs it. But getting attention is not enough, she needs to be the centre of it. Perhaps she felt, that people were paying too many other people attention while also not giving her the amount to which she felt entitled.

There also may be element of the primary school boy who keeps pulling the pigtails of the girl in front of him. He likes her and he wants her to notice and like him, but he has not yet developed the social skills to communicate this desire to her in a positive way. And of course, the result is that she develops feelings towards him as a result of his annoying behaviour that are the very opposite of the ones he wants. Perhaps this was the case with Knox. Maybe she fancied the DJ and felt the most important step was to get his attention, a bit of a challenge as DJ's tend to be popular focal point of attention, one where there is a lot of competition for it. Knox needed to rise above the competition and make herself stand out and in a way that masked the fact that personality, intellectually and spiritually ahe really isn't very interesting, at least not in any attractive way. She certainly got his attention.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

dgfred wrote:
My only thing about that is that IMO is it not swiping another's BF if the guy has already dumped the GF.

Hardly anyone has come forward... in the friend department.



Perhaps in the strict "ownership" sense it isn't, morally and according to the code, it's pretty out of line.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES


Last edited by Michael on Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
Fixed quote
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
dgfred wrote:
My only thing about that is that IMO is it not swiping another's BF if the guy has already dumped the GF.

Hardly anyone has come forward... in the friend department.


Perhaps in thye strict "ownership" sense it isn't, morally and according to the code, it's pretty out of line.


In my opinion it depends mostly on how close this roommate was to Amanda Knox and if they were friends. If they were friends, than it is odd that she would decide to date the guy Knox dated just before her. If they were only living together, but not friends, then there is no moral obligation to stay away from him.

Also, we don't know the whole story. Maybe this roommate who "stole" Kyle from her assured herself first that Knox would be ok with it. Maybe Knox told her "you can have him"?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:39 am   Post subject: OFFENSIVENESS AGAINST A MURDER VICTIM'S FAMILY   

More hatred against the Kerchers:

Hidden Content: show
Re: The Kerchers Role & Views

Unread post by Alex_K » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:21 pm

Hidden Content (for (IIP) members only)Objectively, the Kerchers belong in the enemy camp, but why has not the maxim "know thy enemy" been applied to them? What DO we really know about them? I cannot imagine they have no weak spots, no skeletons in the cupboard that cannot be exploited to make them drop their case and call back their attack hyena, Maresca.

We need to expose their connection to the anti-Knox PR campaign.

At the very least, the American public needs to know that the head of the Kercher clan is a semi-retired tabloid author. Someone like the anti-American snob Piers Morgan, only without the Oxbridge degree. Quite possibly someone like Andy Coulson in character - the American public needs to know those British hacking (in both senses) heroes.

And now, to crown his scribbling career, the man is out to destroy an American girl who personifies the very essence of her country - youth, beauty, naivete, talent, straightforwardness and creativity. Think of the symbolism.


wtf)
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Earthling


User avatar


Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:25 pm

Posts: 504

Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
You will have to wait until tomorrow for a complete pdf, but this is what I can give you so far, text messages located in the memory of Amanda Knox's phone.

This does not include the text messages found on her SIM card.

EDIT: I forgot to add, the blue font colour indicates the text message was written in English and did not need to be translated. Everything else is translated from Italian.

Image

Image

Nell, thank you for all your amazing work on this data! Truly appreciated!

However, I don't understand one thing: why isn't "Maredith's" [sic] message on Oct 31 timed between the two Knox SMS's?

Logically, reading the messages, shouldn't it be (timing-wise):

1) First Knox SMS,

then:

2) The "Maredith" [sic] reply SMS,

then:

3) Second Knox SMS.

(Because Meredith seems to be replying to Knox's first SMS, and then Knox seems to be responding to Meredith's SMS.)

Instead, we have the following times:

1) Knox first SMS: 19:56:24

2) Meredith SMS: 19:04:46

3) Knox 2nd SMS: 20:03:36

Which are not sequential. In fact, it looks like Meredith sent her SMS and then Knox sent two, one after the other. Makes no sense. ???

....

Knox's second SMS sounds pleading, lonely, hurt that she's been abandoned.
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
After all the talk about Amanda Knox cooking with Raffaele Sollecito's kitchen knife, preparing meals, I wondered about this message of hers, sent to Raffaele Sollecito:

"When is dinner? I'm hungry, should I eat at home?" 26/10/2007 21:20:28

Sounds demanding.

EDIT: According to her book Waiting To Be Heard, she met Raffaele Sollecito on the 25th of October, only one day before she sent that message.



This is yet another strange trait, "quirk" or even obsession of Knox's...FOOD. That girl is always eating, wanting to eat, complaining about external circumstances getting in the way of her desire to eat at that moment, or talking about what she ate earlier. The strange little thing, is that Knox is not really a food enthusiast, rather she is an "eating" enthusiast. She doesn't have a passion about food, she's just constantly thinking about stuffing her face. Constant instant gratification (or desiring it), rather then savouring.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I have a desire to return the text message erstwhile mistaken for being from Knox to PJ, but was from PJ to Knox. All attention to it was dropped once it was realised it wasn't sent by Knox. But something, bothered me about it. When it is considered, it is actually rather strange.

What is strange, is that the language of the text makes it clear that the sender not only was certain that Knox did not attend the memorial (there was not even the consideration from the sender that Knox "may" have even dropped by for five minutes, but he may have missed her during a memorial that went on for numerous hours). Neither did the sender appear at all curious why Knox didn't attend or in any way surprised that she wasn't there. One is left with the impression, that the sender was aware in advance of the memorial that Knox had no intention of going. This text jars with Knox's claim that she only made the final decision not to go (a decision for which she blames Raffaele) whilst the memorial was actually underway.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Don't think handing out flyers meant that the individual handing out the flyers would get a shot for every drink sold, after all you do not drink when work and if you drank, potentially, that amount you could not even work if you tried. So the free drink came with every drank brought, as a promo, and the client got both.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Spyros right there communicating with Knox on the 30th, seems as though they had plenty of communication, as late as the 30th, she says he is ALWAYS calling her, this on the 30th, calling while she is in class, so did he want to be her big platonic, kind of eunuch friend, cos she was with Sol Swivel-Eye by then?


All of these guys approached women like they the men were angelic, never thinking of anything sexual, for they also called their male chums up to all the time, saying, hey wanna go for a coffee, by the way I'm not trying to blaze a way to sexual relations with ya, I just wanted to know how you are getting along with your new job and if anyone upset ya.

I'm interested in going back and reading a few of the witness statements, after all Spyros must have been well-grilled by the police when they saw his name in the phone records, before and after the murder.

Anyhow, Sypros seemed to be keen.
And Mr Apology, Juve, I'm sure if Knox had said, okay then, I'm very attracted to you but you have a girl, so...

I reckon he'd have said, well, kind of, not really, we have an open relationship.

It all sounds like some people are not telling everything they know.


Did Knox say she used to delete messages sent to her but didn't know how to do anything else?

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

hugo wrote:
There's quite a bit of phone contact between Knox and this 'Ardak' -- I assume that the name is logged on Knox's phone as such -- but court testimony and reporters' accounts don't seem to mention this person. (And, as Nell says, Knox's book doesn't say anything either.)

ilGiornale.it says Ardak was 'Maghrebi' (North African) like Shaky, but it's not a North African name. It comes from Kazakhstan, where it can be either a boy's or a girl's name. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Ardaks of both sexes have turned up all over Europe.


Ardak, that's the name I couldn't remember but I think it was him I looked up on Facebook and say that he is living in Belgium, but I must have it all wrong, I think I may have looked up Juve Ardak.


I'll have to go back a few pages or look on .org to see if I'd seen a combination of names there, as I cannot remember now what name exactly but I know I was looking into shaky, but I used the name Ardak with something else I'd seen here or on .org.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

After the recent talk of Knox's possible motive for murder, a very sad thought occurred to me. We are all very much keen to understand why she did what she did...and sadly, the poor Kerchers are desperate to understand. But saddest of all, I am also certain that Knox did not tell Meredith her reason. Sweet Meredith was left to die a painful lonely death in the dark without even knowing why her life was taken.

It's a word many don't like to use, but there truly is evil in the world.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

So did Knox, was Knox, unable to understand chirpy humour, had no idea who Mary Poppins was and took Meredith's friendliness as making fun of her? Instead of understanding the friendliness and fun of saying do you need help, Knox interpreted it as laughing AT her?

I can very easily see it as a case of Knox being a communication-distorted/disturbed person. Incredibly insecure.

Who would a Mary Poppins be? Must be an odd looking guy if it is a guy.

Can rule Solo Psycho out since he was the hobbit guy, some guy sings like Mary Poppins?

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

zorba wrote:
Don't think handing out flyers meant that the individual handing out the flyers would get a shot for every drink sold, after all you do not drink when work and if you drank, potentially, that amount you could not even work if you tried. So the free drink came with every drank brought, as a promo, and the client got both.


Maybe I mistranslated it, but the way I understood it is that Patrick let Amanda Knox know that every customer would get a free shot for every drink purchased. The reason he let her know is so that she would mention it while handing out flyers to potential customers, to attract them.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Don't think handing out flyers meant that the individual handing out the flyers would get a shot for every drink sold, after all you do not drink when work and if you drank, potentially, that amount you could not even work if you tried. So the free drink came with every drank brought, as a promo, and the client got both.


Maybe I mistranslated it, but the way I understood it is that Patrick let Amanda Knox know that every customer would get a free shot for every drink purchased. The reason he let her know is so that she would mention it while handing out flyers to potential customers, to attract them.


Hi Zorba,

I just had a look at the translation again and I now see why you understood it the way you did. I should have probably made it clearer by translating it as follows:

"Hello Amanda. Please go at 13:00 to the door of the [Palazzina] Prosciutti to hand out flyers. Tonight there will be love songs and [for] every purchased drink there will be a free short [shot?]. Pat"

I will correct that. I have been made aware of another mistaken I made and I will upload a corrected version shortly. I am sorry for the inconvenience this might have caused. Should anyone spot anything else, please let me know.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Posts: 497

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Just wondering about her text on Nov 1 to RS asking to meet at the Cathedral at 1:45 . I thought she was at the cottage talking to Meredith waiting for RS to come over at 2pm to make lunch?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline jape


Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:57 pm

Posts: 107

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

malvern wrote:
Just wondering about her text on Nov 1 to RS asking to meet at the Cathedral at 1:45 . I thought she was at the cottage talking to Meredith waiting for RS to come over at 2pm to make lunch?


The text is timed at 00:54:05. i.e 54 mins into the 1st Nov.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Posts: 497

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

O.k right , they met up again Halloween night.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Don't think handing out flyers meant that the individual handing out the flyers would get a shot for every drink sold, after all you do not drink when work and if you drank, potentially, that amount you could not even work if you tried. So the free drink came with every drank brought, as a promo, and the client got both.


Maybe I mistranslated it, but the way I understood it is that Patrick let Amanda Knox know that every customer would get a free shot for every drink purchased. The reason he let her know is so that she would mention it while handing out flyers to potential customers, to attract them.


Hi Zorba,

I just had a look at the translation again and I now see why you understood it the way you did. I should have probably made it clearer by translating it as follows:

"Hello Amanda. Please go at 13:00 to the door of the [Palazzina] Prosciutti to hand out flyers. Tonight there will be love songs and [for] every purchased drink there will be a free short [shot?]. Pat"

I will correct that. I have been made aware of another mistaken I made and I will upload a corrected version shortly. I am sorry for the inconvenience this might have caused. Should anyone spot anything else, please let me know.



Hi Nell, thanks, sorry also, as didn't mean any criticism at all or anything.
Was just trying to make sense of it.
Would like to know what it was she was upset about though.
She's pretty much uptight with hey when's dinner, then the other guy Spyro, actually even the things she wrote to Sollecito seems disconnected and cold, even though she wrote kiss in full after her posts to him, some of them then, but no X, x, xx, or xxx.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Don't think handing out flyers meant that the individual handing out the flyers would get a shot for every drink sold, after all you do not drink when work and if you drank, potentially, that amount you could not even work if you tried. So the free drink came with every drank brought, as a promo, and the client got both.


Maybe I mistranslated it, but the way I understood it is that Patrick let Amanda Knox know that every customer would get a free shot for every drink purchased. The reason he let her know is so that she would mention it while handing out flyers to potential customers, to attract them.


Hi Zorba,

I just had a look at the translation again and I now see why you understood it the way you did. I should have probably made it clearer by translating it as follows:

"Hello Amanda. Please go at 13:00 to the door of the [Palazzina] Prosciutti to hand out flyers. Tonight there will be love songs and [for] every purchased drink there will be a free short [shot?]. Pat"

I will correct that. I have been made aware of another mistaken I made and I will upload a corrected version shortly. I am sorry for the inconvenience this might have caused. Should anyone spot anything else, please let me know.



Hi Nell, thanks, sorry also, as didn't mean any criticism at all or anything.
Was just trying to make sense of it.
Would like to know what it was she was upset about though.
She's pretty much uptight with hey when's dinner, then the other guy Spyro, actually even the things she wrote to Sollecito seems disconnected and cold, even though she wrote kiss in full after her posts to him, some of them then, but no X, x, xx, or xxx.


Hi Zorba,

I didn't take it as criticism, I am glad you pointed it out. When I read the sentence again I noticed how unfortunate my wording was.

I agree with you that she seems a bit uptight. The sms about dinner really baffled me. That is not something you would say to your new love interest after less than 24 hours of meeting them for the first time. Very demanding and no charm at all.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline The Bard


User avatar


Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:46 pm

Posts: 2486

Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

This is the account I saw on Twitter. I don't know who this is, but it sounds like Knox made quite an impression that night.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
Top Profile 

Offline hugo


Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:20 pm

Posts: 285

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

zorba wrote:
So did Knox, was Knox, unable to understand chirpy humour, had no idea who Mary Poppins was and took Meredith's friendliness as making fun of her? Instead of understanding the friendliness and fun of saying do you need help, Knox interpreted it as laughing AT her?

I can very easily see it as a case of Knox being a communication-distorted/disturbed person. Incredibly insecure.

Who would a Mary Poppins be? Must be an odd looking guy if it is a guy.

Can rule Solo Psycho out since he was the hobbit guy, some guy sings like Mary Poppins?


I was guessing Mary Poppins was Juve. He was put in a 'mother hen' role with Knox, having to make sure she'd got her stock of leaflets and she turned up on time, maybe advising her not to dress hiker or hippie or indie-slob too much because Italians find that offputting, and if Knox complained that he was nannying her perhaps M (from what one knows of her) said, 'What, like Mary Poppins?'

Knox has no sense of humour that I've noticed, but the idea of a young man-about-town (as he probably thought of himself) in drag as Mary Poppins, with the hat and the carpetbag and the parrot-head brolly -- 'Don't stand there with your mouth open, we are not a codfish' -- is the sort of thing M might come up with.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Meredith certainly had a delightful sense of humour, didn't she?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

...but never unkind. I doubt she ever thought to play a burglary prank on her room mate or throw rocks on passing cars.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline hugo


Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:20 pm

Posts: 285

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
The sms about dinner really baffled me. That is not something you would say to your new love interest after less than 24 hours of meeting them for the first time. Very demanding and no charm at all.


I was a little curious about '37'. She texts Juve '37' and texts Sollecito, the day after shagging him, 'You are at number 37.' Is this a thing? It seems to be meant to indicate 'You are way low down on my list of people to reply to, sucker.'
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The Bard wrote:
This is the account I saw on Twitter. I don't know who this is, but it sounds like Knox made quite an impression that night.



That's interesting, Bard. Certainly, it's worth chasing up to find corroboration on it as it's a third hand claim from only one source, but if true, it could be quite significant. Especially considering the Mellox mantra is Knox is not a violent person and wouldn't hurt a (insert whatever insect you fancy).

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Because it's Saturday:


Watchers of the Food


Image

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

hugo wrote:
Nell wrote:
The sms about dinner really baffled me. That is not something you would say to your new love interest after less than 24 hours of meeting them for the first time. Very demanding and no charm at all.


I was a little curious about '37'. She texts Juve '37' and texts Sollecito, the day after shagging him, 'You are at number 37.' Is this a thing? It seems to be meant to indicate 'You are way low down on my list of people to reply to, sucker.'


Me too.

The only observation I have made is that on the 24th Amanda Knox had not yet met Raffaele Sollecito. She met him the day after sending this text message to Juve, on the 25th.

It is intriguing.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

For those who have not read her book, I will add this excerpt where she describes Juve, Patrick Lumumba and her job experience.

Quote:
Waiting To Be Heard by Amanda Knox

A lot of people would have traded places with me in a nanosecond. I was living in Italy, young and unfettered. But I quickly found that, for me, all the freedom came with a downside: the empty hours made me feel irresponsible, and I knew I needed somehow to fill them.

When I told my roommates in early October that I wanted a job, Laura arranged a meeting for me with a friend of hers. After lunch one day, she walked me over to Piazza Grimana, by the University for Foreigners, and introduced me to a scruffy young guy. “Juve, this is Amanda. Amanda, this is Juve. Good luck!” she said, turning to walk away.

Juve smiled and shook my hand. He spoke perfect, albeit stilted, English. “So you are looking for a job?” he said.
“Yes, I have experience as a barista.”
“You are American?” he asked.
“Yes, I’m from Seattle.”

He put his arm around my shoulders and started walking me down the street, away from the university. I felt awkward, because I was looking for a job, not a boyfriend. “My boss, Diya Lumumba—people call him Patrick—owns a new bar, Le Chic,” Juve said. “It’s a good place, small, and we are building up our clientele. I give out flyers during the day and bring in customers in the evening. “I make sure business happens.”

“Is that where we’re going?” I asked.
The answer was no.
Instead we walked to Juve’s apartment, where he made us espresso and we took turns playing his guitar. It was the weirdest job interview I’d ever had. I wasn’t sure what to say or do. Was I supposed to talk about my work experience pulling coffee at a café and working for a Seattle caterer? Or were we two coworkers just hanging out? I’d expected him to ask me questions, but I had the feeling I’d already gotten the job on our handshake. Like so many other experiences in Perugia, this one made me feel off-balance.

“About the job,” Juve finally said. “It is straightforward and easy. I will give you flyers to hand out in school. Invite your classmates to come to Le Chic. Keep asking them. Around nine P.M., we will meet at the bar, Patrick will open the doors, and we will help him get ready. Then we will go to Corso Vannucci and hand out more flyers and direct people to Le Chic. “When we have no flyers left, we will help Patrick get drinks, stock snacks, and make sure people are having a good time. When customers leave, we bring in more.”

I was hired to work at the bar from 9 P.M. to 1 A.M., making €5.00—about $7.25—an hour. “Handing out flyers doesn’t count as work time,” Juve said.
“Okay,” I answered. “So, what’s next?”
“You need to meet Patrick. I will tell him I know you and will teach you how to do the job.”
I met Patrick at lunchtime the next day, at the university snack bar. He was originally Congolese and spoke Italian but no English. “Do you understand what I’m saying?” he asked.
“Pretty well,” I said.”

“Like Juve, Patrick wasn’t interested in my work experience. Looking back now, I’m sure they hired me because they thought I’d attract men to the bar. But I was too naïve back then to get that. I still thought of myself as a quirky girl struggling to figure out who I’d be when I grew up. I now realize that the point of the job “interview” was to see if my looks were a draw or a liability.
Patrick said, “Sometimes the job is serving, sometimes cleaning, sometimes being friendly and welcoming.”
“I’m outgoing,” I said, still trying to sell myself as a hard worker. “I love talking to people.”
“Good. Juve will train you, and I will see you tonight!” Patrick stood up and kissed me on each cheek. Juve handed me a stack of flyers. “The students are leaving classes,” he said. “Hand these out. And congratulations!”

Just before nine o’clock I went to Juve’s apartment, and we continued on to Le Chic together. The wooden door was open, revealing a dim, tiny vestibule with a bar and a seating area beyond. The walls were brick, and the whole place was dark. It looked like a cellar.

Patrick was standing behind the bar. “Welcome,” he said, as he handed me a menu and started pointing out which beers were on tap, which in bottles, and the different liquors for cocktails and specialty drinks. “Would you like something?”

“I’m good for now, thanks,” I said, translating the American idiom directly into Italian. Patrick looked at me blankly. “No, thank you,” I said, correcting myself.
It turned out that working at Le Chic wasn’t nearly as easy or as straightforward as billed. In fact, it was bewildering. I didn’t always understand Patrick’s directions, especially over the pulsating music, and I had to rely on Juve to translate. It was hard to keep track of orders let alone customers, whom I could hardly expect to stand in one place all night. I couldn’t maneuver trays and had to hand-carry the full glasses two at a time. It was my job to make sure customers kept drinking, and I had to watch carefully so I could pounce on not-quite-finished cocktails and replace them before the last swallow. It felt like a lot to juggle, even without the added challenge of trying to stay awake until 1 A.M. on school nights.

“Have a good time” was my main instruction from Patrick. If I was having fun, the customers would, too. This wasn’t at all what I had thought I was getting myself into. As a barista at home, I was friendly with the regulars, but I “wore an apron and stayed behind the counter, protected. At Le Chic, I liked being out and around people, but the job made me feel used and unsure of myself. Still, once I commit to something, it’s hard for me to admit that it’s not working out.

Patrick always offered me drinks on the job, and I couldn’t figure out what kind of message he was sending me. Since I wasn’t a big drinker I’d either turn him down or nurse a single glass of white wine all night.

Every day, Juve met me outside my grammar class with a new stack of flyers, and I’d hand out a few between and after my classes. I dreaded the hour between 9 P.M. and 10 P.M., when I’d have to stand by myself in Perugia’s main square, Piazza IV Novembre, calling out, “Le Chic. Via Alessi. Le Chic. Via Alessi.” I felt vulnerable.”

Piazza IV Novembre, home to both the Duomo, a massive fifteenth-century Gothic cathedral, and an elaborately carved pink-and-white marble fountain, was the town’s main meeting spot. At night it filled with loud students milling around drinking beer from plastic cups. It reminded me unhappily of the fraternity bashes I’d attended as a freshman at UW. I’d gone to those parties, danced with those people, drunk too much. It took me less than a semester to figure out how much I disliked it. Being in school in Perugia, I felt as if I’d circled back to the same spot—ironic, since I’d come to Italy to figure out how to be my own person.

My job made me feel like a bull’s-eye in the middle of the chaos. Guys continually came up to me to flirt, saying they’d stop by Le Chic only if I promised to be there. Brushing them off, as I would have liked, would have been bad for business. So I hoped my chirpy “You should come by” came off as inviting for Patrick’s sake and not too suggestive for mine.

It was confusing to me. I was open to new people and experiences, but I kept ending up in situations I didn’t want to be in. Working for Patrick and Juve was part of that.

Since most of my days included standing there mute with my arm outstretched to passersby who didn’t acknowledge that I was at the other end of the four-inch-by-five-inch sheet of colored paper, I was always relieved when my stack of flyers dwindled, and I could leave.

But no matter how many flyers I gave out, Le Chic wasn’t catching on. Meredith came to visit me there a few times so I wouldn’t be bored or alone, and once, she brought her girlfriends. But I could see why they didn’t come back. Le Chic didn’t get a lot of foot traffic, so the dance floor was usually empty. The bar felt forlorn—not exactly a recipe for a good time. Patrick was jovial and did his best to make it welcoming, but it was still noisy and dark inside and attracted a crowd of older men—often friends of Patrick’s—and not students.”

There was nothing truly dangerous about Le Chic, but its seediness did hint at Perugia’s dark side. What I didn’t know when I arrived was that the city had the highest concentration of heroin addicts in Italy. I never heard about the high level of trafficking and drug use until I was in prison, bunking with drug dealers. During my trial, the prosecution and the media seemed to take for granted that our neighborhood was bad and our little villa a deathtrap.”


A few things called my attention:

- Amanda Knox claims to have taken the job at Le Chic out of boredom rather than the need for money.

- She describes Juve as scruffy and points out that it was Laura who brought her into contact with him.

- Knox makes a mountain out of a molehill over the "job interview". One could think she expected the same scrutiny as someone applying for a management position.

- Amanda Knox confirms that she was supposed to start working at 9 pm but her text messages reveal Juve had to remind her past 9 pm to show up for work. The tone employed by him made me speculate that it might not have been the first time she was late for work. The message was sent on the 11th of October.

- She accuses Patrick Lumumba of having employed her because of her looks, to attract men to his bar.

- She describes it as challenging to carry "two drinks at a time". A bit odd for someone who was was disappointed in Juve and Patrick for not being more inquisitive about her experience as barista and caterer that would in her opinion have qualified her for the job.

- She describes how busy her job was and that she had difficulties to keep track of orders and customers. That does not marry with her description later that Patrick's bar was basically a deserted cellar.

- Amanda Knox says in her book she felt "unprotected" because she had to bring the drinks to the table and move past clients. It made her feel "used and unsure".

- She claims Patrick offered her alcohol in the hours she was at work.

- She laments that handing out flyers for four (?) weeks did not help Le Chic "to catch on" and describes her handing out flyers in a busy plaza as some sort of abuse.

- She describes Patrick's bar Le Chic as "seedy".

You be the judge.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
A few things called my attention:

- Amanda Knox claims to have taken the job at Le Chic out of boredom rather than the need for money.

- She describes Juve as scruffy and points out that it was Laura who brought her into contact with him.

- Knox makes a mountain out of a molehill over the "job interview". One could think she expected the same scrutiny as someone applying for a management position.

- Amanda Knox confirms that she was supposed to start working at 9 pm but her text messages reveal Juve had to remind her past 9 pm to show up for work. The tone employed by him made me speculate that it might not have been the first time she was late for work. The message was sent on the 11th of October.

- She accuses Patrick Lumumba of having employed her because of her looks, to attract men to his bar.

- She describes it as challenging to carry "two drinks at a time". A bit odd for someone who was was disappointed in Juve and Patrick for not being more inquisitive about her experience as barista and caterer that would in her opinion have qualified her for the job.

- She describes how busy her job was and that she had difficulties to keep track of orders and customers. That does not marry with her description later that Patrick's bar was basically a deserted cellar.

- Amanda Knox says in her book she felt "unprotected" because she had to bring the drinks to the table and move past clients. It made her feel "used and unsure".

- She claims Patrick offered her alcohol in the hours she was at work.

- She laments that handing out flyers for four (?) weeks did not help Le Chic "to catch on" and describes her handing out flyers in a busy plaza as some sort of abuse.

- She describes Patrick's bar Le Chic as "seedy".

You be the judge.


Reading this, one can see the possible roots for her resentment toward Patrick.

And yes, as usual Knox contradicts herself.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Earthling wrote:
Nell, thank you for all your amazing work on this data! Truly appreciated!

However, I don't understand one thing: why isn't "Maredith's" [sic] message on Oct 31 timed between the two Knox SMS's?

Logically, reading the messages, shouldn't it be (timing-wise):

1) First Knox SMS,

then:

2) The "Maredith" [sic] reply SMS,

then:

3) Second Knox SMS.

(Because Meredith seems to be replying to Knox's first SMS, and then Knox seems to be responding to Meredith's SMS.)

Instead, we have the following times:

1) Knox first SMS: 19:56:24

2) Meredith SMS: 19:04:46

3) Knox 2nd SMS: 20:03:36

Which are not sequential. In fact, it looks like Meredith sent her SMS and then Knox sent two, one after the other. Makes no sense. ???

....

Knox's second SMS sounds pleading, lonely, hurt that she's been abandoned.


Hi Earthling,

That is a very good question to which I don't have an answer right now. I also noticed that sometimes the sms messages did not match up perfectly with the timestamp shown in Knox's phone logs. I can only assume it is some kind of technical issue.

According to the Vodafone phone logs, Knox sent Meredith an sms at 19:59, Meredith replied at 20:04 and Knox sent another sms to Meredith at 20:06.

Knox's last message to Meredith strikes me as odd in the sense that she does not get the hint that Meredith has already made plans and that they don't include her. She does not invite her to join her and her friends. Nonetheless Amanda insists that they could meet later and tells her to call her - no further response from Meredith.

Knox is neither tolerant nor forgiving. She also tends to make herself the victim to excuse her inappropriate behaviour.

Of course it's only speculation, but I believe she did not like that Meredith ignored her for the night.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
Reading this, one can see the possible roots for her resentment toward Patrick.

And yes, as usual Knox contradicts herself.


I don't know what the roots for her resentment could be other than he sued her for accusing him falsely of a serious crime?

Her whole book is a smear of all people she's ever met in Perugia. This is only a short excerpt.

She does not spare anybody: Filomena, Laura, Meredith's friends, Patrick Lumumba, Juve, Mignini, Ficarra, Napoleoni ... etc.

She does not get that it only highlights her aggressiveness.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:25 am   Post subject: BILL WILLIAMS   

The reverend Bill Screech Williams is still going strong at the JREF Forum Murder Knife

Quote:
No one else could see this groove, and even if it did exist...


Ahem.

Image
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:40 am   Post subject: WE CAN HAVE BFQ TOO!   

Because it's Saturday:

Hare Krishna


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline OhYesYouDid


Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:08 am

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

This may be way off base, but I figured I would throw it out there: PJ is a commonly used slang word for marijuana. "Personal joint." "I just smoked a pj." Like putting the name "Bud" in your phone for your weed dealer.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Don't think handing out flyers meant that the individual handing out the flyers would get a shot for every drink sold, after all you do not drink when work and if you drank, potentially, that amount you could not even work if you tried. So the free drink came with every drank brought, as a promo, and the client got both.


Maybe I mistranslated it, but the way I understood it is that Patrick let Amanda Knox know that every customer would get a free shot for every drink purchased. The reason he let her know is so that she would mention it while handing out flyers to potential customers, to attract them.


Hi Zorba,

I just had a look at the translation again and I now see why you understood it the way you did. I should have probably made it clearer by translating it as follows:

"Hello Amanda. Please go at 13:00 to the door of the [Palazzina] Prosciutti to hand out flyers. Tonight there will be love songs and [for] every purchased drink there will be a free short [shot?]. Pat"

I will correct that. I have been made aware of another mistaken I made and I will upload a corrected version shortly. I am sorry for the inconvenience this might have caused. Should anyone spot anything else, please let me know.



Definitely, look at me with girlfriends who never made a cup of coffee in 10 months of residence at my abode, can imagine after she said that he said, no, no, wait, I am making the pasta, just have to get up out of bed now as it is almost evening. So he is the one who had to do everything... to keep everyone happy all the time!


Hi Nell, thanks, sorry also, as didn't mean any criticism at all or anything.
Was just trying to make sense of it.
Would like to know what it was she was upset about though.
She's pretty much uptight with hey when's dinner, then the other guy Spyro, actually even the things she wrote to Sollecito seems disconnected and cold, even though she wrote kiss in full after her posts to him, some of them then, but no X, x, xx, or xxx.


Hi Zorba,

I didn't take it as criticism, I am glad you pointed it out. When I read the sentence again I noticed how unfortunate my wording was.

I agree with you that she seems a bit uptight. The sms about dinner really baffled me. That is not something you would say to your new love interest after less than 24 hours of meeting them for the first time. Very demanding and no charm at all.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
Earthling wrote:
Nell, thank you for all your amazing work on this data! Truly appreciated!

However, I don't understand one thing: why isn't "Maredith's" [sic] message on Oct 31 timed between the two Knox SMS's?

Logically, reading the messages, shouldn't it be (timing-wise):

1) First Knox SMS,

then:

2) The "Maredith" [sic] reply SMS,

then:

3) Second Knox SMS.

(Because Meredith seems to be replying to Knox's first SMS, and then Knox seems to be responding to Meredith's SMS.)

Instead, we have the following times:

1) Knox first SMS: 19:56:24

2) Meredith SMS: 19:04:46

3) Knox 2nd SMS: 20:03:36

Which are not sequential. In fact, it looks like Meredith sent her SMS and then Knox sent two, one after the other. Makes no sense. ???

....

Knox's second SMS sounds pleading, lonely, hurt that she's been abandoned.


Hi Earthling,

That is a very good question to which I don't have an answer right now. I also noticed that sometimes the sms messages did not match up perfectly with the timestamp shown in Knox's phone logs. I can only assume it is some kind of technical issue.

According to the Vodafone phone logs, Knox sent Meredith an sms at 19:59, Meredith replied at 20:04 and Knox sent another sms to Meredith at 20:06.

Knox's last message to Meredith strikes me as odd in the sense that she does not get the hint that Meredith has already made plans and that they don't include her. She does not invite her to join her and her friends. Nonetheless Amanda insists that they could meet later and tells her to call her - no further response from Meredith.

Knox is neither tolerant nor forgiving. She also tends to make herself the victim to excuse her inappropriate behaviour.

Of course it's only speculation, but I believe she did not like that Meredith ignored her for the night.



Indeed, since Knox did not have any friends with whom she could arrange a dinner, unless the men are included.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

hugo wrote:
zorba wrote:
So did Knox, was Knox, unable to understand chirpy humour, had no idea who Mary Poppins was and took Meredith's friendliness as making fun of her? Instead of understanding the friendliness and fun of saying do you need help, Knox interpreted it as laughing AT her?

I can very easily see it as a case of Knox being a communication-distorted/disturbed person. Incredibly insecure.

Who would a Mary Poppins be? Must be an odd looking guy if it is a guy.

Can rule Solo Psycho out since he was the hobbit guy, some guy sings like Mary Poppins?


I was guessing Mary Poppins was Juve. He was put in a 'mother hen' role with Knox, having to make sure she'd got her stock of leaflets and she turned up on time, maybe advising her not to dress hiker or hippie or indie-slob too much because Italians find that offputting, and if Knox complained that he was nannying her perhaps M (from what one knows of her) said, 'What, like Mary Poppins?'

Knox has no sense of humour that I've noticed, but the idea of a young man-about-town (as he probably thought of himself) in drag as Mary Poppins, with the hat and the carpetbag and the parrot-head brolly -- 'Don't stand there with your mouth open, we are not a codfish' -- is the sort of thing M might come up with.



Oh yes I see, I can't see this guy telling her too much about what to wear, I would imagine, he would have made it clear, clean and tidy but style these days, in Italy too, could be anything, maybe not sin some southern, remote, out of touch, old-fashioned place, all I know is Knox is always nasty in a lateral attacking way, she says it as though she is not saying anything when she is actually totally criticising others and trying to make them look bad.
I can imagine him as you described though, having to direct her. When he said, to move your ass, that isn't something you'd say to someone unless they kept on being late. I'd have thought anyhow.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
Because it's Saturday:


Watchers of the Food


Image


What a lovely photo, that cat especially, but both cat and dog look like babies, a bit, that cat walks on two legs!

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Thanks to Jools from .org, another mystery has been solved.

The person "Ardak" that appears in Amanda Knox's telephone records and text messages is a girl whose full name is Kussainova Ardak, a girl from Kazakhstan.

This information can be found in the transcript of the closing arguments from Giuliano Mignini, available on TMOMK.

Quote:
Italian original

Kussainova Ardak, ragazza del Kazakhstan, dice il 15.11.07, di aver visto Amanda, la sera di Halloween, nel Pub “Le Chic”, verso le 23.

English translation
Kussainova Ardak, a girl from Kazakhstan, says on the 15.11.07 that she saw Amanda on the evening of Halloween in the pub "Le Chic", around 11pm.


Ardak and Knox don't have phone contact after the 29/10/07 and if I understand the closing arguments correctly, no contact at all after the 31st when she last saw her.

Further there is some information in Rita Ficarra's testimony, also available on TMOMK

Quote:
The first part I’ve already related and it gives me indications about these boys, about non-Italians, about a certain PJ Peter Svizzero, who had seemingly been several times in their home and who lived nearby the area of via della Pergola 7. Patrick, of the [sic] owner of the pub, Le Chique [sic], where she herself worked, I’ve already said, she gives me the mobile-phone information. Then she speaks of a certain Ardak, a North African citizen, and gives me the mobile-phone information. A certain Juve, an Algerian citizen, who worked occasionally at the Le Chique [sic] pub and who apparently lived in the vicinity of the home of another of the victim’s friends, of Sofie [sic], also for him she gives me the mobile information. Spiros, a young lad of Greek nationality, for whom she gives me only the mobile-phone information. Shaki [Hicham Khirir], a Moroccan citizen who works in a pizzeria, frequents the [same] pubs [as those] frequented by all the girls of the victim’s group, and [is] also friends with Sofie [sic]. She furthermore reports about a black South African boy, short, who plays basketball in the Piazza Grimana court, [and] who on one occasion had apparently visited the home of the boys who lived underneath the apartment.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

What is really upsetting me right now too, is everything these ISIS lunatics are doing.

Yet another name I have always loved now associated with something awful.
The cruelty, it makes me feel like not wanting to be around, to have to see this stuff.

People talk about or say, respect for other peoples' religions, I see that slightly different, I respect their right to life and the rest, but respect religion, come on, I do not, not Christianity and not Islam even the form not radicalised, why should I say I respect Islam when I never ever see anything good anywhere or anyone ever being able to explain logically how this religion shows a higher way, meaning higher than the ordinary human is able to conjure up ordinarily, so where is the far-reaching understandable (logical) explanations of how love works and how that higher love is connected to a high intelligence not registered at any school, that goes beyond groups and walls, I never hear anyone ever speaking about forgiveness and love in Islam.
To me, all as I see is accept what someone else says as your own and do not question certain things and definitely do not speak about certain things.
Pretty much like mainstream Christianity.
I believe in the higher love that is possible in each human being, more I do not believe in at all.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Kussainova Ardak

Oh, a girl Nell.
No wonder she never called Knox up again, it's a wonder anyone did, Spyros did though but I suspect not for long, just one or maybe two calls, and basta.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline hugo


Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:20 pm

Posts: 285

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

'Kussainova Ardak' is one of those official army-style reversed names like 'Knox Amanda'. Back in July 2009 the Knox defence claimed they'd tracked down two foreign witnesses for Knox that the police couldn't trace -- 'Kussainova Ardak' and 'Juba Louerguioui', i.e. Juve. The names seem to have appeared in that reversed form in a Corriere dell'Umbria report that Bolint mentioned on PMF on 19 July 2009. I'm not sure that either Ardak or Juve did ever give evidence for Knox, though.

At the time, somebody dug out a Facebook page for a Louerguioui Juba, now expired. Whether it was actually Juve or not, I think that LJ was based in Belgium then. And a couple of Belgian people-finder sites, if you Google the name, place a Louerguioui Juba in rue de Venise, Brussels. Guess this is the Belgian connection Zorba was thinking of.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Since police would have been all over it, I doubt any of these knew anything, not about murder, but I wonder if everything they could have expressed as to the dynamics/relationships was ever expressed or told, they were probably terrified too and glad not to get involved, people aren't keen to get their names associated with such a thing.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline The Machine


Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:43 pm

Posts: 2306

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I hope Greg Hampikian likes the latest Twitter images and tagline:

https://twitter.com/harryrag/status/498543407875497984
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

zorba wrote:
Since police would have been all over it, I doubt any of these knew anything, not about murder, but I wonder if everything they could have expressed as to the dynamics/relationships was ever expressed or told, they were probably terrified too and glad not to get involved, people aren't keen to get their names associated with such a thing.


What I find odd is that Ardak Kussainova did not contact Amanda Knox after the murder, at all. No sms, no call. She stated that she did not see or spoke to Amanda Knox after seeing Knox at the 31st in Le Chic.

They had regular phone contact before the murder, so I would have expected Ardak to talk to Knox to offer her support after hearing the news of Meredith's murder. It makes me wonder what the reasons could have been to avoid her all of a sudden?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:37 am   Post subject: MORE OFFENSIVE COMMENTS ABOUT A MURDER VICTIM'S FAMILY   

I posted the last disgusting comment against the Kerchers by Alex_K, of the Amanda Knox support group Injustice-Anywhere under a spoiler here Kerchers Are The Enemy because it was hidden in the member's only forum anyway. But his latest, in the public forum, is even more offensive.

The 'Pakistani' Side Of The Kercher Family

Quote:
Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Post by Alex_K » Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:01 am

"Meredith RIP" and "Justice for Meredith" have long become code for "we hate Amanda Knox, just because", or "we hate young, beautiful, white, middle-class American girls because we're non-white, non-beautiful, non-young, etc. (check if applicable)"

Some paeans to Meredith I've seen online resemble old Persian poets' praise to their boy lovers. I don't know if it has to do with the Pakistani line in the family but it's hard not to notice the nauseating imagery.


I guess Bruce Fischer and Sarah Snyder couldn't be bothered to moderate their forum any more?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

In my opinion many of Amanda Knox's supporters are crazy, racist or both.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:53 am   Post subject: WHAT SET AMANDA KNOX SUPPORTER MICHELLE MOORE OFF?   

Did she just read Raffaele Sollecito's appeal or figure out the family's strategy?

Michelle's public outbursts are legendary, but she's been tweeting like mad for the last 20 hours,attacking Raffaele Sollecito and his lawyer Bongiorno (thanks to ORG for some of the screen caps) then deleting most of them.

So I looked at his time line. Quite revealing, he really seems perplexed:

Michelle Moore
@michellesings · 21h
@Raffasolaries
Quote:
So is THIS what AK told u"Raffie, b a good boy while I go out! Sit down here and watch Amelie until the end, OK?"? Really???


11:25 PM - 9 Aug 2014 https://twitter.com/michellesings/statu ... 2704540672

Raffaele Sollecito
‏@Raffasolaries
Quote:
@michellesings ???

12:24 AM - 10 Aug 2014 https://twitter.com/Raffasolaries/statu ... 1708789760

Raffaele Sollecito
@Raffasolaries · 5h
@michellesings
Quote:
stop. I never said anything you're saying now ... What are you talking about??? Me complaining? Me saying New statements? No!


3:23 PM - 10 Aug 2014 · https://twitter.com/Raffasolaries/statu ... 8615852032

Raffaele Sollecito
‏@Raffasolaries @michellesings @MedullaPancreas @cri_magnani
Quote:
Michelle you are accusing me of something I never did. You are doing a mistake.


3:26 PM - 10 Aug 2014 https://twitter.com/Raffasolaries/statu ... 0303923200

Plus more threats "she knows too much about him" and they aren't going to financially support him any more?

She sounds like she's having a mental breakdown. If I were her family I would be trying to get her some help, really.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

Posts: 1564

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Yes, that is not exactly normal. She needs help. Or maybe she can blame it on the moon? Some great pics :mrgreen:
http://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-28735682
Top Profile 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The full super moon, indeed :)
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:47 am   Post subject: STEVE MOORE ALSO HAS A MELTDOWN   

Steve Moore also affected by the Super Michelle Moon? Raffaele controlled by women, he says

Quote:
Now, many in Raffaele’s family, two aunts and a sister in particular, have turned on Amanda (and her supporters) with inexplicable malice and ignoble vitriol, apparently in hopes of trading the freedom of their innocent loved one for the freedom of someone else’s innocent child. Raffaele remains largely silent in Amanda’s defense and the defense of his own supporters against the lies of his family, and one wonders whether he has the strength left to continue to fight the tyranny of the Italian judicial system or his family. Ironically, the women in Raffaele’s family seem to have taken control of him, while simultaneously complaining that he was easily manipulated by a woman.


Is he blaming Raffaele's sister?

Plus he wants Raffaele to stand in front of a tank, or something like that :)
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Since police would have been all over it, I doubt any of these knew anything, not about murder, but I wonder if everything they could have expressed as to the dynamics/relationships was ever expressed or told, they were probably terrified too and glad not to get involved, people aren't keen to get their names associated with such a thing.


What I find odd is that Ardak Kussainova did not contact Amanda Knox after the murder, at all. No sms, no call. She stated that she did not see or spoke to Amanda Knox after seeing Knox at the 31st in Le Chic.

They had regular phone contact before the murder, so I would have expected Ardak to talk to Knox to offer her support after hearing the news of Meredith's murder. It makes me wonder what the reasons could have been to avoid her all of a sudden?


Is this someone who had contact with Knox almost right up until the murder, like at least up until the 31st?

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline RumaRämäRomu


Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 9:06 am

Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:02 am   Post subject: Re: STEVE MOORE ALSO HAS A MELTDOWN   

Ergon wrote:
Steve Moore also affected by the Super Michelle Moon? Raffaele controlled by women, he says

Quote:
Now, many in Raffaele’s family, two aunts and a sister in particular, have turned on Amanda (and her supporters) with inexplicable malice and ignoble vitriol, apparently in hopes of trading the freedom of their innocent loved one for the freedom of someone else’s innocent child. ...


Is he blaming Raffaele's sister?


It's all very puzzling. But one of the crazed tweets by Michelle (one of the now-deleted ones?) to RS referred angrily to a tweet by Vanessa Pitta, perhaps this one from last Thursday:

Quote:
vanessa pitta @vanessapitta1 · Aug 7

#AmandaKnox disse di non sapere che Laura&Filomena il 2nov. erano via.Ma telefona a F. invece di guardare se stava in camera


My Italian is almost nonexistant, but I think it means "Amanda Knox said she didn't know Laura & Filomena were away on 2 November. But she phones F[ilomena] instead of [doing the obvious thing and] looking to see if she's in her room."

As Nell pointed out recently, this has long been one of the problems with Knox's story. It is not something Knox's defenders want people to think about, so Steve Moore claims a simple -- and reasonable -- observation is laced with malice and vitriol. Easier, I suppose, than finding a convincing reply.

Do the Moore's think Vanessa Pitta is Vanessa Sollecito? I have no idea who she is.

I also note that Patrick Lumumba was far from Steve Moore's mind when he wrote in that tank essay, ignorant of all irony, "He who would trade anybody else’s liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline RumaRämäRomu


Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 9:06 am

Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:33 am   Post subject: Re: STEVE MOORE ALSO HAS A MELTDOWN   

Ahh, Annella on IIP said on July 30th that it was Vanessa Pitta who tweeted the police report linking Knox to Federico. Perhaps Michelle has only just learned (or believes) that Vanessa Pitta is Vanessa Sollecito and that's what's got her knickers in a twist.

Just a guess.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Since police would have been all over it, I doubt any of these knew anything, not about murder, but I wonder if everything they could have expressed as to the dynamics/relationships was ever expressed or told, they were probably terrified too and glad not to get involved, people aren't keen to get their names associated with such a thing.


What I find odd is that Ardak Kussainova did not contact Amanda Knox after the murder, at all. No sms, no call. She stated that she did not see or spoke to Amanda Knox after seeing Knox at the 31st in Le Chic.

They had regular phone contact before the murder, so I would have expected Ardak to talk to Knox to offer her support after hearing the news of Meredith's murder. It makes me wonder what the reasons could have been to avoid her all of a sudden?


Is this someone who had contact with Knox almost right up until the murder, like at least up until the 31st?


Hi Zorba,

They had contact on the 12/10, 15/10, 16/10, 17/10, 19/10, 22/10, 24/10, 26/10 and the 29/10. With the exception of the 29th, all contact was initiated by Ardak.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Miché had been briefing the US President on foreign affairs all day long, turning on him, she uttered with acerbic tongue, coloured green but red with some type of anger, steam coming out of her mouth with every breath, just like on a wintery early morning, "Now listen here all of you other-y people over there, somewhere, and you President, I've told you what to do on the Middle East, but now for more important issues, the injuns, yes cos that's all they are, the Italian Injuns have kidnapped her before and we must not let it happen again, my husband is cutting a trail, literally and physically, right under the Rockies all the way to Italy where he will extract the wayward Solo Psycho and deliver him into the hands of the High Command, back in the homeland (she gives a rendition of the national anthem starting somewhere in the middle), how dare he change his tune!?!?" She completes.

''I've never been so humiliated,'' she yapped, ''in all muh life."

"Calm down dear," offered the President, "we've got it all under control."

"Oh great, just great," she snarled, as if ready to give him a double turn backwards drop kick.

"Yes," the President continued, "there's no case to answer, your "friend'' will be handed over to Italy by express delivery, this much is sure and there's no two ways about it, do you hear oh mentally challenged one with the big gob?"

"How dare you speak to me that way," she retorted, teeth clenched and white foam exuding from every cavity, like a vicious dog, "do you even know who I am?"

"Well, as far as I can tell, you must have been out for an excursion with the institution you are confined in for your own good and that of the public but you skipped off, I expect multiple warning calls to come in any second now saying dangerous highly intellectual ex Walmart employee (door-to-door advertising postman) on the loose, remain calm, lock your windows and doors and don't go out until further notice."

"So that's what you think of me huh?"

"I don't think ma'am, you just is all that."

"Well ain't that just great, me the greatest patriot this land has known, taken down by someone that might be related to that other man who victimised her by getting her for telling all those lies about him, she don't owe him nuffin and she ain't paying nuffin, it's robbery."

"I suppose, Mr President, it's because you are black, kinda, and so you are sticking up for him, them, all of them, you must be a traitor, you must be a hater."

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:39 am, edited 3 times in total.
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Since police would have been all over it, I doubt any of these knew anything, not about murder, but I wonder if everything they could have expressed as to the dynamics/relationships was ever expressed or told, they were probably terrified too and glad not to get involved, people aren't keen to get their names associated with such a thing.


What I find odd is that Ardak Kussainova did not contact Amanda Knox after the murder, at all. No sms, no call. She stated that she did not see or spoke to Amanda Knox after seeing Knox at the 31st in Le Chic.

They had regular phone contact before the murder, so I would have expected Ardak to talk to Knox to offer her support after hearing the news of Meredith's murder. It makes me wonder what the reasons could have been to avoid her all of a sudden?


Is this someone who had contact with Knox almost right up until the murder, like at least up until the 31st?


Hi Zorba,

They had contact on the 12/10, 15/10, 16/10, 17/10, 19/10, 22/10, 24/10, 26/10 and the 29/10. With the exception of the 29th, all contact was initiated by Ardak.



Hey, wow, that's very clear, thanks for taking the trouble.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:47 am   Post subject: Re: STEVE MOORE ALSO HAS A MELTDOWN   

RumaRämäRomu wrote:
Ahh, Annella on IIP said on July 30th that it was Vanessa Pitta who tweeted the police report linking Knox to Federico. Perhaps Michelle has only just learned (or believes) that Vanessa Pitta is Vanessa Sollecito and that's what's got her knickers in a twist.

Just a guess.


In one of her tweets Michelle Moore did ask Sollecito who Vanessa Pitta is.

I would like to know who suggested to Michelle Moore to delete her tweets? Was it her husband or someone else?

Thanks to Craig for capturing these meaningful MiMoo tweets.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Since police would have been all over it, I doubt any of these knew anything, not about murder, but I wonder if everything they could have expressed as to the dynamics/relationships was ever expressed or told, they were probably terrified too and glad not to get involved, people aren't keen to get their names associated with such a thing.


What I find odd is that Ardak Kussainova did not contact Amanda Knox after the murder, at all. No sms, no call. She stated that she did not see or spoke to Amanda Knox after seeing Knox at the 31st in Le Chic.

They had regular phone contact before the murder, so I would have expected Ardak to talk to Knox to offer her support after hearing the news of Meredith's murder. It makes me wonder what the reasons could have been to avoid her all of a sudden?


Is this someone who had contact with Knox almost right up until the murder, like at least up until the 31st?


Hi Zorba,

They had contact on the 12/10, 15/10, 16/10, 17/10, 19/10, 22/10, 24/10, 26/10 and the 29/10. With the exception of the 29th, all contact was initiated by Ardak.



Hey, wow, that's very clear, thanks for taking the trouble.


My pleasure. It wasn't trouble at all.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ha ha, this one though is in the end a liability to their cause, poor ol' Solo, with his, stop, when did I change my statements, etc. ... perhaps she was immediately summoned by the PR Machine to stop her serial nonsensical ranting and after a couple of tranquilizers everything was apparently back to normal, I say was, but I assume.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Posts: 497

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:18 pm   Post subject: Re: STEVE MOORE ALSO HAS A MELTDOWN   

RumaRämäRomu wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Steve Moore also affected by the Super Michelle Moon? Raffaele controlled by women, he says

Quote:
Now, many in Raffaele’s family, two aunts and a sister in particular, have turned on Amanda (and her supporters) with inexplicable malice and ignoble vitriol, apparently in hopes of trading the freedom of their innocent loved one for the freedom of someone else’s innocent child. ...


Is he blaming Raffaele's sister?


It's all very puzzling. But one of the crazed tweets by Michelle (one of the now-deleted ones?) to RS referred angrily to a tweet by Vanessa Pitta, perhaps this one from last Thursday:

Quote:
vanessa pitta @vanessapitta1 · Aug 7

#AmandaKnox disse di non sapere che Laura&Filomena il 2nov. erano via.Ma telefona a F. invece di guardare se stava in camera


My Italian is almost nonexistant, but I think it means "Amanda Knox said she didn't know Laura & Filomena were away on 2 November. But she phones F[ilomena] instead of [doing the obvious thing and] looking to see if she's in her room."

As Nell pointed out recently, this has long been one of the problems with Knox's story. It is not something Knox's defenders want people to think about, so Steve Moore claims a simple -- and reasonable -- observation is laced with malice and vitriol. Easier, I suppose, than finding a convincing reply.

Do the Moore's think Vanessa Pitta is Vanessa Sollecito? I have no idea who she is.

I also note that Patrick Lumumba was far from Steve Moore's mind when he wrote in that tank essay, ignorant of all irony, "He who would trade anybody else’s liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."


That is exactly what Vanessa was saying and it struck me too in its simplicity and indication of guilt. AK had should have had no idea if Filomena was back from her party or if Laura was home. She leaves without opening their doors to check? She wonders if somebody went out and left the door open. A quick look in their rooms would show unmade beds and reassure her they would be back soon. What if they were chatting with someone outside or saying a long goodbye to friends on the steps near the car park. Instead she says she was uneasy and wanted to leave , all without doing the most basic look around for clues to the open door.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:22 pm   Post subject: THE MOORES   

..are easily confused. "Two aunts and a sister"? That sounds more like Amanda Knox. Because someone called "Vanessa Pitta" :) posted a link to a police report she must be Vanessa Sollecito?

But then, this case has too many fake detectives who see something in an internet name or writing style. Too many paranoiacs and depressives willing to accuse people of something without any proof. Doug Bremner says John Kercher wrote a letter to his sister's employer, even though it's he who wrote a letter to the BBC.. Ex-FBI character Steve Moore runs around employment checks through his wife, then when it turns out John Kercher's too sick to be on the internet at all, they accuse Meredith's brother, John Kercher Jr., of being @harryrag. I'm in Rome, ferfeck's sake, and hear the rumor going around I'm Meredith's uncle. The Kerchers can't even show on the Internet anywhere because crazy Michelle and Annella start talking to Lyle Kercher about "Meredith's peace" and "Mez".

I despise bullies and have no patience with idiots. But sometimes, it's best to make fun of them.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Diocletian wrote:
Michael wrote:
Diocletian wrote:
A person is entitled to counsel under the ECHR as soon as they are suspected of a crime. Italy signed the ECHR, so that's the law in Italy, too. Italy does have separate laws that govern the right to counsel, but they can't diminish the protections that Italy signed up for under the ECHR.


I'm sorry, but that's complete bollocks.


So you agree that she was a suspect before she got counsel, it's just that you think mere suspects don't have a right to counsel in Italy?


Of course she wasn't a suspect. Knox, along with many other witnesses, were interviewed by investigators regarding what they knew about Meredith's activities prior to her murder. Knox was a roommate and she discovered the crime scene, so obviously she was a witness.

After making the statement that she was present at the murder and that could identify the murderer, her status changed, questioning stopped, and she was thrown in prison; arrested ... as she should be. Witness, suspected of a crime, or person of interest, is quite different than the status of being "arrested". Once she was arrested she was entitled to counsel. Knox was not entitled to counsel until after she was arrested.
Top Profile 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Diocletian wrote:
Michael wrote:
Diocletian wrote:
It's an objective test, based on whether the ECtHR thinks that the police had any reason to suspect the witness at the time questioning started


Thank you, EXACTLY! Finally, you're starting to understand it. "Any reason" = EVIDENCE. They had no evidence against Knox when they questioned her, Knox did not provide that evidence until late into the interview and once she provided it, they then had "reason" to suspect her and as a result, she was formally made a suspect and her questioning was halted (1:45 pm). This agrees fully with the legal requirement of both Italian law and the ECHR.


But wait a minute. If she wasn't a suspect before the interview started, and then she said something that made her a suspect, then why did they proceed to type up a statement and ask her to sign before halting the interview? Her lawyer should have reviewed.


Knox, a witness, made a voluntary statement to investigators that resulted in her arrest. How could investigators have anticipated that she would make that statement? They couldn't, but once the statement was made, they had every right to ensure that they got it right - in writing. Regardless, that statement was excluded from the proceedings. While in jail, she made a voluntary statement confirming her accusations against an innocent man. That statement was included in the proceedings. She had access to counsel at the time of that statement, and we now know that she's does not always respect the advice of counsel. Why should we think that she was any more inclined to listen to counsel then than she is now? Knox has made choices, and she has to live with them.
Top Profile 

Offline astro


User avatar


Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 2:02 pm

Posts: 46

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
dgfred wrote:
One of those or a so far unidentified one must be Mr.Cocaine/etc

Called both BEFORE and AFTER the murder according to LE.



So far, the phone records don't support that. Although, there are some numbers that have not as yet, been assigned. If such contacts took place, it was by some other means.

And that brings me on to my next point. These phone records are not exhaustive in regard to Knox's electronic communications. It has also been established that Knox regularly frequented an Internet cafe and used Skype to communicate with David Johnsrud (DJ) and who knows who else. These records, to our knowledge, were not retrieved by the ILE. Or, if they were, they were not considered relevant to her prosecution. There is also a blank in regard to her email activity.


AK deleted many messages off her phone. The police could have found the messages between her and her coke dealer some other way . . . possibly from the drug dealers phone...
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline DoctorRadias


Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:38 pm

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

astro wrote:
Michael wrote:
dgfred wrote:
One of those or a so far unidentified one must be Mr.Cocaine/etc

Called both BEFORE and AFTER the murder according to LE.



So far, the phone records don't support that. Although, there are some numbers that have not as yet, been assigned. If such contacts took place, it was by some other means.

And that brings me on to my next point. These phone records are not exhaustive in regard to Knox's electronic communications. It has also been established that Knox regularly frequented an Internet cafe and used Skype to communicate with David Johnsrud (DJ) and who knows who else. These records, to our knowledge, were not retrieved by the ILE. Or, if they were, they were not considered relevant to her prosecution. There is also a blank in regard to her email activity.


AK deleted many messages off her phone. The police could have found the messages between her and her coke dealer some other way . . . possibly from the drug dealers phone...



There were some communications with "Lorenzo" .. same name is mentioned in the Police\Coke dealer report.
Some calls to Lorenzo coincide with cash withdrawals (same date)

_________________
I'm not a doctor, I'm a very naughty boy
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Apologies if this has been posted already.... Slowly catching up after vacation.

Raffie & Greta's Venetian holiday (photo gallery):

August 6, 2014
Raffaele Sollecito, Venetian holiday in the company of his girlfriend
Surprised along the arcades of the city center, walking with his girlfriend Greta (from Treviso) after obtaining a degree in Verona

PORTOGRUARO - Venetian holiday for Raffaele Sollecito, surprised in the early afternoon walking along the arcades of the historic center of Portogruaro with his girlfriend Greta Menegaldo, from Treviso's Ponte di Piave, but living in Oderzo.

Attachment:
Raffa and Greta in Venice.jpg


Sollecito, struggling with the new trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher, after lunch had a short walk before being "intercepted" by a photographer.


IL GAZZETTINO


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Top Profile 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Special interview with Theodore Simon:

August 11, 2014
Philly Attorney Theodore Simon on Amanda Knox, Ira Einhorn and Decriminalizing Weed

Simon Van Zuylen-Wood talks with the Philadelphia attorney and president-elect of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.

Speaking of high-profile cases, the Amanda Knox trial is still going on. I thought she had been acquitted by an Italian judge.
I got involved after her initial conviction at the end of ’09. On her appellate trial, she was actually found innocent. Thereafter, the prosecution appealed to the country’s Supreme Court and had her innocent verdict reversed. She went back for a new appellate court trial, where she was convicted. And now, it’s back on appeal.

Is this trial ever going to end?
There’s only one thing that is consistent about this particular case: There’s a compelling and profound absence of evidence. It’s a nightmare that should end, and it’s completely and wholly unjust.


PHILLY MAG
Top Profile 

Offline corpusvile


Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:38 pm

Posts: 349

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:36 pm   Post subject: Re: MORE OFFENSIVE COMMENTS ABOUT A MURDER VICTIM'S FAMILY   

Ergon wrote:
I posted the last disgusting comment against the Kerchers by Alex_K, of the Amanda Knox support group Injustice-Anywhere under a spoiler here Kerchers Are The Enemy because it was hidden in the member's only forum anyway. But his latest, in the public forum, is even more offensive.

The 'Pakistani' Side Of The Kercher Family

Quote:
Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Post by Alex_K » Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:01 am

"Meredith RIP" and "Justice for Meredith" have long become code for "we hate Amanda Knox, just because", or "we hate young, beautiful, white, middle-class American girls because we're non-white, non-beautiful, non-young, etc. (check if applicable)"

Some paeans to Meredith I've seen online resemble old Persian poets' praise to their boy lovers. I don't know if it has to do with the Pakistani line in the family but it's hard not to notice the nauseating imagery.


I guess Bruce Fischer and Sarah Snyder couldn't be bothered to moderate their forum any more?


He's finally edited the secod part out, saying race has nothing to do with this... after leaving the "white/non-white" parts in. maybe he read your comment and other comments elsewhere. I had a go at Alex on Ground report over his remarks.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

DoctorRadias wrote:
astro wrote:
Michael wrote:
dgfred wrote:
One of those or a so far unidentified one must be Mr.Cocaine/etc

Called both BEFORE and AFTER the murder according to LE.



So far, the phone records don't support that. Although, there are some numbers that have not as yet, been assigned. If such contacts took place, it was by some other means.

And that brings me on to my next point. These phone records are not exhaustive in regard to Knox's electronic communications. It has also been established that Knox regularly frequented an Internet cafe and used Skype to communicate with David Johnsrud (DJ) and who knows who else. These records, to our knowledge, were not retrieved by the ILE. Or, if they were, they were not considered relevant to her prosecution. There is also a blank in regard to her email activity.


AK deleted many messages off her phone. The police could have found the messages between her and her coke dealer some other way . . . possibly from the drug dealers phone...



There were some communications with "Lorenzo" .. same name is mentioned in the Police\Coke dealer report.
Some calls to Lorenzo coincide with cash withdrawals (same date)


The name in the police report is Luciano, not Lorenzo.

The police report does not specify how exactly they found out about the connection between Amanda Knox and the drug dealer, only that it emerged during the investigation of the Meredith Kercher murder.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline RumaRämäRomu


Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 9:06 am

Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

astro wrote:
AK deleted many messages off her phone. The police could have found the messages between her and her coke dealer some other way . . . possibly from the drug dealers phone...


I remember (perhaps incorrectly?) that the accounts of this case, a few years ago, were clear that Knox "led them" to the dealers. I thought it was via her phone, but I'm wholly uncertain about that. Assuming that the investigation started with Knox and later led to the dealers, there are a couple of interesting points:

1. The usual pro-Knox line is that after the clumsy police and evil prosecutors decided that Knox did the murder, they stopped looking for anyone else. (Rudy Guede was "forced" on them by the fingerprint evidence.) Yet, clearly they were investigating other people with sufficient diligence that they learned these guys were drug dealers. It's not like they would have volunteered that during police interviews.

2. The usual pro-Knox line is that the police and prosecutors did everything they could to smear Knox both in the media and the courtroom. Clearly not true, as surely by the time the trial rolled around they knew of this coke connection and neither used it as evidence against her nor leaked it to the press.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline RumaRämäRomu


Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 9:06 am

Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

guermantes wrote:
PORTOGRUARO - Venetian holiday for Raffaele Sollecito, surprised in the early afternoon walking along the arcades of the historic center of Portogruaro with his girlfriend Greta Menegaldo, from Treviso's Ponte di Piave, but living in Oderzo.

Attachment:
Raffa and Greta in Venice.jpg


Sollecito, struggling with the new trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher, after lunch had a short walk before being "intercepted" by a photographer.


IL GAZZETTINO


So Sollecito has gone from a woman who wore la maschera dell'assassino to one who wears la maschera del Gazzettino.

[Somehow I've lost the photo. Drat.]
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Robin Williams has died. Suicide :(

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
Robin Williams has died. Suicide :(



One of my favourite actors. Such a shame.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:35 pm   Post subject: WHO INFLUENCED PETER GILL ON HIS ILL ADVISED BOOK?   

From the introduction to "Misleading DNA Evidence, reasons for miscarriages of justice" by Peter Gill:

Quote:
The motivation for this book arose from a meeting in Rome that was organized by Vince Pascali in 2012, entitled: 'The hidden side of DNA profiles'. I have carried out a deep analysis of a number of poorly reported cases, which are described in the book. (p. x)


I don't know how 'deep' his analysis of the other cases were, but the list of reports he reviewed to form his analysis (5.4 Background To The Case "Death Of Meredith Kercher" p.136) shows curious omissions: he read the Conti-Vecchiotti Report, but not Stefanoni's, and, Hellmann-Zanetti but not the Supreme Court ruling that overturned Hellmann. In fact, he writes it is "not available". Funny, but he writes "at the time of writing, the defendants have been reconvicted (p.136)" That was in January 2014, of course, and his book published at the end of June. The Supreme Court ruling was widely available at Perugia Murder File and The Meredith Kercher Wiki "at the time time of writing, so clearly he did not review all the available information, which then begs the question: how reliable were his sources?

-------------

From ORG:
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewto ... 67#p172767

Quote:
Re: XXXV. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 27, 2014 -

Post by Boudicca » 11 Aug 2014, 21:14

Sallyoo wrote:
...I came across this bit of innuendo about Carla Vecchiotti, on the Wikipedia page devoted to Andrea Ghira. ...

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Ghira


Sallyoo, I was just thinking about this case over the weekend. Machiavelli has brought up Ghira on JREF several times when discussing Carla Vecchiotti. Generally to thundering silence. In November of 2011 he wrote:

It is a fact that Vecchiotti is not an impartial carachter; it is demonstrated that she stated false things in her report and her main "scientifical" arguments were specious or legally unacceptable; it is a fact she has a history of "not finding" DNA and letting suspects on the run who were proven murderers. It is also a fact that she has no relevant international publications and her only presence as an author in one scientific textbook is due to the fact the textbook was directed by Tagliabracci. It is also a fact that most her co-authors in international works are the co-authors of Pascali and Tagliabracci. It is also a fact that Vecchiotti and Pascali often appear together in little scientific conferences organized in Rome by Vatican organizations. It is a fact that Stefanoni - acting in Potenza as a court-appointed expert - fiercely accused Pascali of "not finding DNA" and thus producing a report favourable to the defendant DAnilo Restivo, a serial killer. Stefanoni is actually in first place the "enemy" of Pascali; she destroyed his scientific report and cast worst possible light on his reputation. Pascali, Tagliabracci and Vecchiotti are friends.

The prosecution of Potenza, expecially the Procura Generale, who was infiltrated by masonic/mafious elements, and who appointed Pascali, did not earn the trusted of the judges of Potenza themselves (there are long stories on each of these points). Currently the prosceution of Potenza are accused of having set a large conspiracy involving secret agents against other judges and magistrates.

It is also a fact that Vecchioti, about 12 years ago was involved in another case where she was accused of being "not impartial" on the DNA identification of the (alleged) body of Andrea Ghira. She stated Andrea Ghira was dead, but it seems there are many who still doubt it. Ghira was a fascist terrorist and is the nephew of Vecchiotti's boss, the lady to whom Vecchiotti owes her place at Sapienza university, in the environment where she grew.

So I do not suggest specific things, but the word "impartial" (or "independent") and "Vecchiotti" do not fit in my mind. [I have not corrected the typos. Regular Machiavelli readers know that he often writes quickly and late at night.]



Another Vecchiotti matter came up at JREF a few days ago, the Stefano Cucchi case. First, a Knox supporter published this link, in support of their claim that Italy is rife with bad cops and bad courts:

http://strugglesinitaly.wordpress.com/2 ... bitionism/

Machiavelli then made this this intriguingly vague post on Saturday:

Stefano Cucchi case may be interesting for what "friends" Vecchiotti & Albarello "discovered" about Cucchi's vertebrae fractures.


No one would bite. It was ignored and another Knox supporter instead replied to the original Cucchi post containing the link, saying:

The parallels to the other case [a purported “bad Italy” case] are spooky, with the police trying to claim he died of drugs and not the brutal beating they administered.


With still no interest in what Vecchiotti (for three years now, a pampered innocentisti pet) had to say about the Cucchi case (now apparently adopted as further proof that Italy is evil, through and through) Machiavelli included this in one of his replies to someone else:

Vecchiotti is known for having performed "the worse forensic analysis in Italian history" on the notorious Olgiata case, she fell under suspicion for the Ghira case and took part with her friend Albarello in swapping Cucchi's broken vertebra with an intact one (so to favor defence of the accused). Her co-worker on main cases, Pascali, is even under trial for expert fraud. ... Vecchiotti doesn't even have a temperature log in her empty refrigerator, actually does not even have a thermometer, and does not protect the samples which she refuses to analyze (violating court ordnances).


There is still no reply to any of the Cucchi/Vecchiotti posts, even though it was the innocentisti who brought up Cucchi in the first place, and even though these posts show that if there is a problem with some particular Italian court decisions, Vecchiotti has played a integral and malign role in more than one of them.

Astonishingly, about a completely separate remark of Machiavelli’s concerning Vecchiotti, another Knox supporter wrote, pretending he had never heard a bad word uttered about la Dott.ssa Carla:

V&C were independent court appointed experts. They had no dog in the hunt. They could have cared less one way or the other in the outcome of their analysis. Their interest was only in the fair application of the science and "getting it right". [Emphasis added.]


I wonder if any Knox supporter has read about these Vecchiotti cases. Ever. Or even cares about learning of her view of “getting it right.” Can you imagine if Stefanoni had acted half as egregiously on only one of her previous cases? Vecchiotti's imaginary thermometers would burst as the innocentisti rose to the boiling point.

And I cannot conclude without saying: Machiavelli is a treasure!


-------

Machiavelli is indeed a treasure, and I really must credit him, Popper and other correspondents for background on the Italian experts they have provided us all these years. Who knew, that Pascali, Tagliabracci, and Vecchiotti were 'sworn enemies' of Stefanoni for having caught the many deliberate errors of Vecchiotti?

So now we know, that not only were Conti and Vecchiotti handed their DNA report by "the Americans", Hampikian foremost, but Professor Gill also got his report on Meredith Kercher written for him by Carla Vecchiotti. Did he not know how tainted her reputation was in Italy? I can see why he's now refusing to discuss his book.

An aside: I interviewed some law students from La Sapienza university last year during the hearings at Cassazione. They were divided on the issue of guilt or innocence, but making valid arguments about the inquisitorial system vs civil law evolution in Italy; a sizable minority felt they should be found innocent because of reasonable doubt. But who knew, the politics at La Sapienza?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I read an older article from Andrea Vogt again yesterday and somehow it had escaped me that Greg Hampikian argued likely contamination of the bra clasp based on the notion that Raffaele Sollecito had been allowed back into the cottage after the discovery of the murder.

That is false.

Please find attached an excerpt of Greg Hampikian's testimony he gave for the defence of Dennis Dechaine, who was found guilty of the sexual assault and murder of 12 year old Sarah Cherry.


Quote:
CROSS EXAMINATION BY WILLIAM STOKES, FOR THE STATE

. . . . .

Q. Okay. Now, you said you testified before in a

that you testified —

A. Yes, I remember now that piece of evidence.

Q. That ~ right, that the unknown male on the duct tape –

A. Yup.

Q. — you concluded was not contamination?

A. That’s correct.

Q. And — but then you also — you had some — did you have some involvement in the Amanda Knox

10 case?

A. I did, yes.

Q. And in that case you claimed that–or opined that a piece of clothing that was linked to one

14 of the defendants was the result of contamination?

A. Yes. You’re talking about the bra clasp evidence.

Q. And you said in that case that there was contamination and you blamed the Italian law enforcement personnel?

A. Well, I didn’t blame anyone, I just noted that the evidence was left on the floor for four to six (* this could be a clerk error, as Hampikian likely said “46” which is how many days the bra clasp remained in the house before forensic investigators catalogued it) days and moved around.

Q. Okay. And that was a situation where you would not — you would expect contamination, in fact you opined it was contamination?

A. Likely, yeah.

Q. Likely. And that was a situation where a piece of clothing was left on where, the floor?

A. It was — yeah, on a floor in the room and it had been moved and the person who was found on it was let back into the apartment. So there were a number of difficulties with that piece of evidence.

Q. And — but in this case you say — you don’t think there’s contamination here?

A. No, because we have a control in this case.


It is well worth to read the longer excerpt available on Andrea Vogt's website. Greg Hampikian comes across as a charlatan of the highest order, saying whatever the defence of his client needs to hear.

As "expert" for the defence one would assume it was his duty to study the case and errors such as this should not have occurred.

It is my belief that people like Greg Hampikian are fully aware of their "mistake". They misrepresent the evidence on purpose because that's what they are paid to do.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I can hardly read it - so I skipped it. I have to congratulate everyone, especially Michael, for his eternal patience. Very commendable.

It appears to be a deliberate misunderstanding of the term: suspect. The term is used interchangeably in relation to before and after arrest. In fact, the accused is entitled to counsel after arrest. Prior to arrest, the witness has no need for counsel. Knox was a witness and an accused, never a suspect. Today, she is a convicted murderer - which seems far more serious than the other charge, but never mind.
Top Profile 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
I read an older article from Andrea Vogt again yesterday and somehow it had escaped me that Greg Hampikian argued likely contamination of the bra clasp based on the notion that Raffaele Sollecito had been allowed back into the cottage after the discovery of the murder.

That is false.
<snip transcript>
It is well worth to read the longer excerpt available on Andrea Vogt's website. Greg Hampikian comes across as a charlatan of the highest order, saying whatever the defence of his client needs to hear.

As "expert" for the defence one would assume it was his duty to study the case and errors such as this should not have occurred.

It is my belief that people like Greg Hampikian are fully aware of their "mistake". They misrepresent the evidence on purpose because that's what they are paid to do.


Why is he doing that? What does his wife think? In a way, he's tanking his career, but at the same time, he is doing his best to discredit DNA analysis. Gill seems to have the same inclination. It looks to me like their agenda is to completely discredit DNA in the courts, and then come in as experts where they define what should and should not be accepted in courtrooms. Fifteen years ago, people like Hampikian and Gill were pleading with the courts to accept their work, today, they are trying to control how it is used ... maybe.


Last edited by Jester on Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Jester wrote:
--- snip ---

I can hardly read it - so I skipped it.

--- snap ---


Is it because of the font size? There is a simple keyboard shortcut available to make everything on a webpage larger or smaller:

If you are using Windows or Linux CTRL and + should zoom in and CTRL and - should zoom out.

For Macintosh users it's and + to zoom in and and - to zoom out.

Let me know what operating system and browser you are using if the above does not work for you.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
--- snip ---

I can hardly read it - so I skipped it.

--- snap ---


Is it because of the font size? There is a simple keyboard shortcut available to make everything on a webpage larger or smaller:

If you are using Windows or Linux CTRL and + should zoom in and CTRL and - should zoom out.

For Macintosh users it's and + to zoom in and and - to zoom out.

Let me know what operating system and browser you are using if the above does not work for you.


No, sorry, I started reading on page one of this thread about how there was something with the EHRC or whatever it's called, and Knox's complaint about whatever. I agree, I'll believe when I see it. Then there's the Gill thing. I thought he was the guy that confirmed Sollecito's DNA on the underwear. Now he's claiming contamination, but at the same time he has no comment? Where did he hear that evidence was collected at Sollecito's apartment in shoe boxes taken from, or found at, the crime scene?

I meant that I can't read it because it's like watching a tumbleweed roll around in the morning sun - what's with the blurring of lines and bizarre understanding of the case?
My eyes are fine, thanks.
Top Profile 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Robin Williams, a great actor, RIP http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Ma ... 20641.html

Just as sad when Philip Seymour Hoffman passed away.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:37 am   Post subject: Re: WHO INFLUENCED PETER GILL ON HIS ILL ADVISED BOOK?   

Ergon wrote:

An aside: I interviewed some law students from La Sapienza university last year during the hearings at Cassazione. They were divided on the issue of guilt or innocence, but making valid arguments about the inquisitorial system vs civil law evolution in Italy; a sizable minority felt they should be found innocent because of reasonable doubt. But who knew, the politics at La Sapienza?


What was their reasonable doubt? Where did they have doubt about the validity of the evidence ... excluding all conspiracy, corrupt, incompetent, etc. arguments. On the basis of the evidence, what didn't they accept?
Top Profile 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

RumaRämäRomu wrote:
guermantes wrote:
PORTOGRUARO - Venetian holiday for Raffaele Sollecito, surprised in the early afternoon walking along the arcades of the historic center of Portogruaro with his girlfriend Greta Menegaldo, from Treviso's Ponte di Piave, but living in Oderzo.

Attachment:
Raffa and Greta in Venice.jpg


Sollecito, struggling with the new trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher, after lunch had a short walk before being "intercepted" by a photographer.


IL GAZZETTINO


So Sollecito has gone from a woman who wore la maschera dell'assassino to one who wears la maschera del Gazzettino.

[Somehow I've lost the photo. Drat.]


Does he have another new girlfriend ... perhaps better suited to his tastes?
Top Profile 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

RumaRämäRomu wrote:
astro wrote:
AK deleted many messages off her phone. The police could have found the messages between her and her coke dealer some other way . . . possibly from the drug dealers phone...


I remember (perhaps incorrectly?) that the accounts of this case, a few years ago, were clear that Knox "led them" to the dealers. I thought it was via her phone, but I'm wholly uncertain about that. Assuming that the investigation started with Knox and later led to the dealers, there are a couple of interesting points:

1. The usual pro-Knox line is that after the clumsy police and evil prosecutors decided that Knox did the murder, they stopped looking for anyone else. (Rudy Guede was "forced" on them by the fingerprint evidence.) Yet, clearly they were investigating other people with sufficient diligence that they learned these guys were drug dealers. It's not like they would have volunteered that during police interviews.

2. The usual pro-Knox line is that the police and prosecutors did everything they could to smear Knox both in the media and the courtroom. Clearly not true, as surely by the time the trial rolled around they knew of this coke connection and neither used it as evidence against her nor leaked it to the press.


I was quite surprised to learn about the confirmed cocaine connections with Knox, and heroin connections with Sollecito. I guess that could mean that they were on a super cocaine binge (which I've heard can last 5 days), with a touch of wine, crazed on the night of the murder. We always knew that she was too stoned to remember what happened ... her own words. We always knew that pot doesn't erase memory, at least not for a new user, but cocaine is an entirely different matter. Doesn't time stretch on forever, but everything happens in at fast speed (the opposite of slow motion), but memory glimpses are in slow motion and fragmented rather than solid memories? That's what Knox suffered ... imaginings and fragmented memory, more likely cocaine fuelled insanity where she imagined that Rudy was Patrick, she plugged her ears, Guede ran, she and Sollecito were left to clean up the mess and not get that stoned again in the morning ... maybe just a joint to calm their nerves.

I'm rambling ... but the cocaine revelation popped things into perspective for me.
Top Profile 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

astro wrote:
Michael wrote:
dgfred wrote:
One of those or a so far unidentified one must be Mr.Cocaine/etc

Called both BEFORE and AFTER the murder according to LE.



So far, the phone records don't support that. Although, there are some numbers that have not as yet, been assigned. If such contacts took place, it was by some other means.

And that brings me on to my next point. These phone records are not exhaustive in regard to Knox's electronic communications. It has also been established that Knox regularly frequented an Internet cafe and used Skype to communicate with David Johnsrud (DJ) and who knows who else. These records, to our knowledge, were not retrieved by the ILE. Or, if they were, they were not considered relevant to her prosecution. There is also a blank in regard to her email activity.


AK deleted many messages off her phone. The police could have found the messages between her and her coke dealer some other way . . . possibly from the drug dealers phone...


She deleted all her sent messages before she went to the police station, but the incoming message from Patrick was still in her phone. Why would she clear out her sent messages prior to meeting with police to accuse her boss of murder? Did she not know how to clear out her inbox? Didn't she claim at some point that she didn't know how to manage the delete files and therefore the inbox messages were still readable ... but it was her intent to delete both incoming and outgoing texts? Why would an innocent person do that?

Never mind. Why would a kind (Meredith was kind), serious language student, an new visitor in Perugia, make such a quick connection to cocaine and marijuana?
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Updated translation of the text messages recovered from Amanda Knox's phone memory and SIM


Earlier we published Amanda Knox's phone records and a copy of her text messages which was later followed by a translation of the messages written in Italian.

There were two mistakes in the document which now have been corrected.

I erronously translated "ci vediamo" with "I'll see you" instead of "we will see each other". This affected a total of 8 messages:

- SMS from Juve to Amanda Knox on the 18/10/2007 13:43:48
- SMS from Ardak to Amanda Knox on the 17/10/2007 19:32:36
- SMS from Ardak to Amanda Knox on the 16/10/2007 18:42:52
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Patrick on the 01/11/2007 20:32:34
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Raffaele on the 01/11/2007 00:54:05
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Meredith on the 31/10/2007 30:03:36
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Raffaele on the 29/10/2007 11:45:17
- SMS from Laura to Amanda Knox on the 27/09/2007 19:05:04
- SMS from Spyros to Amanda Knox on the 06/10/2007 20:00:18


The other issue was an unfortunate choice of words in my English sentence that led to confusion. That has been corrected as well.

Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks to those who have helped me with my questions and who have brought this to my attention.

Another matter I would like to address is that I kept all typos and punctuation errors that were made in the original. Some have assumed that my spelling of "Maredith" was a typo, but I kept the misspelling true to the original as to not add confusion. The document is a translation only and does not address the content itself. The name "Maredith" is how Amanda Knox had saved Meredith's contact on her phone.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
--- snip ---

I can hardly read it - so I skipped it.

--- snap ---


Is it because of the font size? There is a simple keyboard shortcut available to make everything on a webpage larger or smaller:

If you are using Windows or Linux CTRL and + should zoom in and CTRL and - should zoom out.

For Macintosh users it's and + to zoom in and and - to zoom out.

Let me know what operating system and browser you are using if the above does not work for you.


No, sorry, I started reading on page one of this thread about how there was something with the EHRC or whatever it's called, and Knox's complaint about whatever. I agree, I'll believe when I see it. Then there's the Gill thing. I thought he was the guy that confirmed Sollecito's DNA on the underwear. Now he's claiming contamination, but at the same time he has no comment? Where did he hear that evidence was collected at Sollecito's apartment in shoe boxes taken from, or found at, the crime scene?

I meant that I can't read it because it's like watching a tumbleweed roll around in the morning sun - what's with the blurring of lines and bizarre understanding of the case?
My eyes are fine, thanks.


I understand. :)
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:14 am   Post subject: Re: WHO INFLUENCED PETER GILL ON HIS ILL ADVISED BOOK?   

Jester wrote:
Ergon wrote:

An aside: I interviewed some law students from La Sapienza university last year during the hearings at Cassazione. They were divided on the issue of guilt or innocence, but making valid arguments about the inquisitorial system vs civil law evolution in Italy; a sizable minority felt they should be found innocent because of reasonable doubt. But who knew, the politics at La Sapienza?


What was their reasonable doubt? Where did they have doubt about the validity of the evidence ... excluding all conspiracy, corrupt, incompetent, etc. arguments. On the basis of the evidence, what didn't they accept?


Sorry, I edited instead of replying to your quote is) Here's what I wrote:

They all started with the DNA, the carefully planted "doubt" we have gotten used to. After that they couldn't articulate ONE coherent point. They just kept saying the prosecution hadn't proven their case. Clearly these were intelligent people, who couldn't use critical analysis skills. Still, a clear majority felt they were guilty.

But the other question I asked was what they thought the outcome would be. Many thought Cassazione would uphold Hellmann. This was interesting, to hear law students say that. Now I know the background politics to this, I understand.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
Robin Williams, a great actor, RIP http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Ma ... 20641.html

Just as sad when Philip Seymour Hoffman passed away.


Yes. Another great talent. As well as Robin Williams, Philip Seymour Hoffman was one of my favourite actors.

Philip Seymour's death was especially tragic since apparently he had managed to be drug free for many years until shortly before his death. Truly sad.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:39 am   Post subject: GILL'S DNA   

Hi, Jester, it was Balding who confirmed Raffaele's DNA on the bra clasp, not Gill. Gill's book had been touted so strongly by the FOA I ordered it pre publication. Given how strong he was in earlier interviews it was a miscarriage of justice (had to match the title of his book I guess) I wanted to see if he had anything new to add to the case.

Having read it over three times, not only am I surprised that a person of his stature turned what looks like it was cribbed from a defense pamphlet, but that he had made so many fundamental errors. Hence my inchoate notes in the last few pages, from which I'll be writing a full review of his book.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:42 am   Post subject: Re: WHO INFLUENCED PETER GILL ON HIS ILL ADVISED BOOK?   

Ergon wrote:
Jester wrote:
Ergon wrote:

An aside: I interviewed some law students from La Sapienza university last year during the hearings at Cassazione. They were divided on the issue of guilt or innocence, but making valid arguments about the inquisitorial system vs civil law evolution in Italy; a sizable minority felt they should be found innocent because of reasonable doubt. But who knew, the politics at La Sapienza?


What was their reasonable doubt? Where did they have doubt about the validity of the evidence ... excluding all conspiracy, corrupt, incompetent, etc. arguments. On the basis of the evidence, what didn't they accept?


Sorry, I edited instead of replying to your quote is) Here's what I wrote:

They all started with the DNA, the carefully planted "doubt" we have gotten used to. After that they couldn't articulate ONE coherent point. They just kept saying the prosecution hadn't proven their case. Clearly these were intelligent people, who couldn't use critical analysis skills. Still, a clear majority felt they were guilty.

But the other question I asked was what they thought the outcome would be. Many thought Cassazione would uphold Hellmann. This was interesting, to hear law students say that. Now I know the background politics to this, I understand.


In my opinion it was more important for Knox and Sollecito to win the appeal than to win the original trial. The FOAKers cheered too soon when they commented everywhere that the Supreme Court would not be able to throw out Hellman's acquittal as the court rules only on points of law.

Theodore Simon hinted that also in one of his interviews, saying that there was only a very narrow path on which they were allowed to rule. They took it for granted they would get away with their rigged appeal.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
Updated translation of the text messages recovered from Amanda Knox's phone memory and SIM


Earlier we published Amanda Knox's phone records and a copy of her text messages which was later followed by a translation of the messages written in Italian.

There were two mistakes in the document which now have been corrected.

I erronously translated "ci vediamo" with "I'll see you" instead of "we will see each other". This affected a total of 8 messages:

- SMS from Juve to Amanda Knox on the 18/10/2007 13:43:48
- SMS from Ardak to Amanda Knox on the 17/10/2007 19:32:36
- SMS from Ardak to Amanda Knox on the 16/10/2007 18:42:52
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Patrick on the 01/11/2007 20:32:34
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Raffaele on the 01/11/2007 00:54:05
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Meredith on the 31/10/2007 30:03:36
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Raffaele on the 29/10/2007 11:45:17
- SMS from Laura to Amanda Knox on the 27/09/2007 19:05:04
- SMS from Spyros to Amanda Knox on the 06/10/2007 20:00:18


The other issue was an unfortunate choice of words in my English sentence that led to confusion. That has been corrected as well.

Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks to those who have helped me with my questions and who have brought this to my attention.

Another matter I would like to address is that I kept all typos and punctuation errors that were made in the original. Some have assumed that my spelling of "Maredith" was a typo, but I kept the misspelling true to the original as to not add confusion. The document is a translation only and does not address the content itself. The name "Maredith" is how Amanda Knox had saved Meredith's contact on her phone.



"We Will See Each other"

I'm practically going mad trying to figure out the order ... let me

- SMS from Laura to Amanda Knox on the 27/09/2007 19:05:04
- SMS from Ardak to Amanda Knox on the 16/10/2007 18:42:52
- SMS from Ardak to Amanda Knox on the 17/10/2007 19:32:36
- SMS from Juve to Amanda Knox on the 18/10/2007 13:43:48
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Raffaele on the 29/10/2007 11:45:17
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Meredith on the 31/10/2007 30:03:36
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Raffaele on the 01/11/2007 00:54:05
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Patrick on the 01/11/2007 20:32:34

- SMS from Spyros to Amanda Knox on the 06/10/2007 20:00:18
Top Profile 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

- SMS from Amanda Knox to Raffaele on the 01/11/2007 00:54:05
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Patrick on the 01/11/2007 20:32:34

Knox contacted Raffaele shortly after midnight on October 31, prior to the murder (was that at the end of: no invitations to Halloween parties), and she contacted Patrick the following evening at 8:32PM, shortly before Meredith was murdered.

Does anyone still believe that she is innocent of murder?
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
Updated translation of the text messages recovered from Amanda Knox's phone memory and SIM


Earlier we published Amanda Knox's phone records and a copy of her text messages which was later followed by a translation of the messages written in Italian.

There were two mistakes in the document which now have been corrected.

I erronously translated "ci vediamo" with "I'll see you" instead of "we will see each other". This affected a total of 8 messages:

- SMS from Juve to Amanda Knox on the 18/10/2007 13:43:48
- SMS from Ardak to Amanda Knox on the 17/10/2007 19:32:36
- SMS from Ardak to Amanda Knox on the 16/10/2007 18:42:52
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Patrick on the 01/11/2007 20:32:34
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Raffaele on the 01/11/2007 00:54:05
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Meredith on the 31/10/2007 30:03:36
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Raffaele on the 29/10/2007 11:45:17
- SMS from Laura to Amanda Knox on the 27/09/2007 19:05:04
- SMS from Spyros to Amanda Knox on the 06/10/2007 20:00:18


The other issue was an unfortunate choice of words in my English sentence that led to confusion. That has been corrected as well.

Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks to those who have helped me with my questions and who have brought this to my attention.

Another matter I would like to address is that I kept all typos and punctuation errors that were made in the original. Some have assumed that my spelling of "Maredith" was a typo, but I kept the misspelling true to the original as to not add confusion. The document is a translation only and does not address the content itself. The name "Maredith" is how Amanda Knox had saved Meredith's contact on her phone.



"We Will See Each other"

I'm practically going mad trying to figure out the order ... let me

- SMS from Laura to Amanda Knox on the 27/09/2007 19:05:04
- SMS from Spyros to Amanda Knox on the 06/10/2007 20:00:18
- SMS from Ardak to Amanda Knox on the 16/10/2007 18:42:52
- SMS from Ardak to Amanda Knox on the 17/10/2007 19:32:36
- SMS from Juve to Amanda Knox on the 18/10/2007 13:43:48
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Raffaele on the 29/10/2007 11:45:17
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Meredith on the 31/10/2007 30:03:36
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Raffaele on the 01/11/2007 00:54:05
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Patrick on the 01/11/2007 20:32:34


Hi Jester,

Thank you for arranging them chronologically. I typed them up according to the order they appeared in the scanned document in case someone wants to compare.

The document has two main parts: Messages recovered from memory (received and sent) and then messages recovered from the SIM card (only received messages).

That's why the messages don't appear chronologically in the document.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

More sleuthing re Amanda Knox's text messages and contacts

According to Waiting To Be Heard, the contact that has been identified as "Lorenzo" in Knox's phone records is a friend of Meredith's.

Amanda Knox wrote in her book:

Quote:
Chapter 10
November 5, 2007, Day Four

“I was desperate to get back to my regular routine, an almost impossible quest given that any minute I expected the police to call again. I didn’t have a place of my own to live or clean clothes to wear. But trying to be adult in an unmanageable situation, I borrowed Raffaele’s sweatpants and walked nervously to my 9 A.M. grammar class. It was the first time since Meredith’s body was found that I’d been out alone.
Class wasn’t as normal as I would have liked. Just before we began the day’s lesson, a classmate raised her hand and asked, “Can we talk about the murder that happened over the weekend?”
I knew I hadn’t been singled out, but that’s the way it felt. I said, “Can we not? She was my housemate, and the police have asked me not to say anything.” The other students murmured vague sympathies, but the attention put me even more on edge.
When my phone rang I drew in my breath, exhaling only after I realized it was Dolly. “Have you reached the American embassy?” she asked.
“No,” I said, stepping into the hall. “I haven’t had time, but I’ll try to figure it out. I’m back in class.”
In truth, I hadn’t even thought about calling the embassy.
As with everyone who’d phoned, I wanted Dolly to believe that I had my life under control. I was still trying to believe it myself.
In retrospect I understand that Dolly had a hunch I was headed for a train wreck—that in keeping me awake, calling me back in, the police were interested in me as more than just a “person informed of the facts.” I didn’t see these things as I should have, as foreshadowing, or that Dolly’s advice was now my last chance to alter the course of coming events. I just viewed her suggestions as moral support, like other calls I was getting from my family and friends.”
“She said, “You’re a strong girl. I love you. Your mom’s going to be there tomorrow, so stay tough.”
When class ended I headed back toward Raffaele’s apartment. As I walked through Piazza Grimana, I saw Patrick standing in a crowd of students and journalists in front of the University for Foreigners administration building. He kissed me hello on both cheeks. “Do you want to talk to some BBC reporters?” he asked. “They’re looking for English-speaking students to interview.”
I said, “I can’t. The police have told me not to talk to anyone about the case.”
“Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to put you in a difficult position,” he said.
“That’s okay. But Patrick . . .” I hesitated. “I’ve needed to call you. I don’t think I can work at Le Chic anymore. I’m too afraid to go out by myself at night now. I keep looking behind me to see if I’m being followed. And I feel like someone is lurking behind every building, watching me.”
“No problem. I completely understand. Don’t worry about it.”
“Thank you.”
We kissed again on each cheek. “Ciao,” I said.
That afternoon at Raffaele’s, I got a text from one of Meredith’s friends—a student from Poland—telling me about a candlelight memorial service for Meredith that night. Everyone was supposed to meet downtown, on Corso Vannucci, at 8 P.M. and walk in a procession to the Duomo. I kept wondering about what I should do. I wanted to be there but couldn’t decide if it was a good idea for me to go to such a public event. I was sure the people I ran into would ask me what I knew about the murder. In the end my decision was made for me—Raffaele had somewhere else to be, and I wouldn’t have considered going alone. It didn’t occur to me that people would later read my absence as another indication of guilt.”


So according to her book, first her aunt Dorothy called and after that she received a text message from one of Meredith's friends to inform her about the planned memorial service.

I checked this information with her phone records and indeed she received a call from her aunt at 12:22:05 pm. Amanda Knox received 5 text messages on the 5th of November 2007. Two are from Vodafone, one from "Lorenzo" and two are from "Pj".

The messages received by "Pj" are too late and can be dismissed as not belonging to the person Amanda Knox is referring to in her book. They were sent after 22 pm and we know the content of one of them (telling Knox that the memorial had just finished). The remaining text message sent from "Lorenzo" fits the profile though. It was sent after Knox spoke to her aunt and hours before the memorial, at 13:26:14.

That would make "Lorenzo" a friend of Meredith's not Amanda's. Weird.

They had phone contact on three occasions: 19/10/2007, 22/10/2007 and the 05/11/2007.


If true, then her response to "Lorenzo's" sms telling her about the memorial was: "Maybe? I'll call you. Thank you.".

She never called "Lorenzo" after that, but as Michael already pointed out, others did not expect her to make an appearance at the memorial service for Meredith.

We cannot know though if Amanda Knox is telling the truth in her book. "Lorenzo" does not strike me as a Polish name, I believe it's Italian.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:

"We Will See Each other"

I'm practically going mad trying to figure out the order ... let me

- SMS from Laura to Amanda Knox on the 27/09/2007 19:05:04
- SMS from Spyros to Amanda Knox on the 06/10/2007 20:00:18
- SMS from Ardak to Amanda Knox on the 16/10/2007 18:42:52
- SMS from Ardak to Amanda Knox on the 17/10/2007 19:32:36
- SMS from Juve to Amanda Knox on the 18/10/2007 13:43:48
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Raffaele on the 29/10/2007 11:45:17
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Meredith on the 31/10/2007 30:03:36
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Raffaele on the 01/11/2007 00:54:05
- SMS from Amanda Knox to Patrick on the 01/11/2007 20:32:34


Hi Jester,

Thank you for arranging them chronologically. I typed them up according to the order they appeared in the scanned document in case someone wants to compare.

The document has two main parts: Messages recovered from memory (received and sent) and then messages recovered from the SIM card (only received messages).

That's why the messages don't appear chronologically in the document.


Truth seems to come out over time.
A call to her new boyfriend shortly after midnight on Halloween, (after Knox contacted Meredith several times, no response from Meredity). Presumably she went to his apartment at that time, just in time to open the door to the suitcase drama.

At 8:52PM on November 1, shortly before Meredith was murdered, Knox phoned Patrick ... to cancel work at 8:52PM? Then what, she turned off her phone and deleted all incoming messages?
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

guermantes wrote:
Apologies if this has been posted already.... Slowly catching up after vacation.

Raffie & Greta's Venetian holiday (photo gallery):

August 6, 2014
Raffaele Sollecito, Venetian holiday in the company of his girlfriend
Surprised along the arcades of the city center, walking with his girlfriend Greta (from Treviso) after obtaining a degree in Verona

PORTOGRUARO - Venetian holiday for Raffaele Sollecito, surprised in the early afternoon walking along the arcades of the historic center of Portogruaro with his girlfriend Greta Menegaldo, from Treviso's Ponte di Piave, but living in Oderzo.

Attachment:
Raffa and Greta in Venice.jpg


Sollecito, struggling with the new trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher, after lunch had a short walk before being "intercepted" by a photographer.


IL GAZZETTINO


Hi Guermantes!

The photos look arranged to me. There is no one in the streets except the couple. It seems impossible they would not have been able to spot the photographer.

More PR I guess.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline DoctorRadias


Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:38 pm

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
DoctorRadias wrote:


There were some communications with "Lorenzo" .. same name is mentioned in the Police\Coke dealer report.
Some calls to Lorenzo coincide with cash withdrawals (same date)


The name in the police report is Luciano, not Lorenzo.

The police report does not specify how exactly they found out about the connection between Amanda Knox and the drug dealer, only that it emerged during the investigation of the Meredith Kercher murder.



Apologies Nell.. it was the Giallo report that names Lorenzo

_________________
I'm not a doctor, I'm a very naughty boy
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

It seems like the more insane the scenarios written as satire are, the more they pick up on them, confuse them and act them out.

I've said, as one, all along, that he'll crack, right now, I'm not sure who is cracking but they are.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

DoctorRadias wrote:
Nell wrote:
DoctorRadias wrote:


There were some communications with "Lorenzo" .. same name is mentioned in the Police\Coke dealer report.
Some calls to Lorenzo coincide with cash withdrawals (same date)


The name in the police report is Luciano, not Lorenzo.

The police report does not specify how exactly they found out about the connection between Amanda Knox and the drug dealer, only that it emerged during the investigation of the Meredith Kercher murder.


Apologies Nell.. it was the Giallo report that names Lorenzo


It was my fault. I focussed only on the police report. The article published in Il Giallo indeed says that Federico was arrested together with two other men, Luciano and Lorenzo.

If I understand it correctly, it also says that Knox's connection to Federico was discovered through wiretaps on Knox's phone.

"Lorenzo" from Knox's phone records has only exchanged text messages with Knox, so they could not have been overheard talking about Federico. It is intriguing.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:08 pm   Post subject: DISARRAY IN THE FOA   

Interesting discussion: Bruce Fischer

Quote:
Dexter wrote:
MIchelle has abandoned (RS) and is on attack mode...


Quote:
Jeb wrote:
Why is Michelle Moore attacking Raffaele on Twitter?


Quote:
BruceFischer wrote:
No one is attacking anyone. Here is a good article explaining the current situation.
Who will stop the tanks?
http://gmancasefile.com/1/post/2014/08/ ... tanks.html


Bruce lies again. Michelle DID attack Sollecito, then deleted twenty tweets when we noticed (good thing we have the screen captures) and Steve Moore's post is damage control, though if you read it, the Moores don't do damage control, they only pour gasoline on fires. Attacking the Sollecitos again? They're getting desperate.

ETA: Now Steve Moore's doing it again: https://twitter.com/Gman_Moore/status/4 ... 7021854720

Quote:
My thoughts on recent statements and non-statements by Raffaele Sollecito.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Hey... if we delete the post that means they didn't really happen. Right???

Don't press SEND.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

If someone sees the tweet fall in the forest, it happened :)
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Posts: 497

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:13 pm   Post subject: Re: DISARRAY IN THE FOA   

Ergon wrote:
Interesting discussion: Bruce Fischer

Quote:
Dexter wrote:
MIchelle has abandoned (RS) and is on attack mode...


Quote:
Jeb wrote:
Why is Michelle Moore attacking Raffaele on Twitter?


Quote:
BruceFischer wrote:
No one is attacking anyone. Here is a good article explaining the current situation.
Who will stop the tanks?
http://gmancasefile.com/1/post/2014/08/ ... tanks.html


Bruce lies again. Michelle DID attack Sollecito, then deleted twenty tweets when we noticed (good thing we have the screen captures) and Steve Moore's post is damage control, though if you read it, the Moores don't do damage control, they only pour gasoline on fires. Attacking the Sollecitos again? They're getting desperate.

ETA: Now Steve Moore's doing it again: https://twitter.com/Gman_Moore/status/4 ... 7021854720

Quote:
My thoughts on recent statements and non-statements by Raffaele Sollecito.


Bruce says no one is attacking anyone , how's that for deception. Michelle has a tweet still there which threatens to sue Vanessapitta. VanessaPitta probably is not even RS sister but will that stop them or will they see fit to apologize ? I see Bruce removed the offending post by Alex but left Annella's with Alex's attached .
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline DJLawless


Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 5:47 am

Posts: 140

Location: Ohio USA

Highscores: 1

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

dgfred wrote:
At this point I am really started to wonder more about that rental poster that was made shortly after the murder. Sounds more and more like the two... handwriting or not.


I have studied that rental note extensively and am convinced that they jointly handwrote that note. When you look at the individual letters, you can see that some are distinctly Amanda's hand and some are solicito's. I started comparing them when the letter was first published and seems plain as day to me. I imagine they were quite impressed with their cleverness. pfffftt!!!

_________________
r-(( Rest in Peace Meredith Kercher r-((
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Hi, Malvern, Michelle Moore has threatened to sue/sic the FBI on an unusually large number of people. The Sollecitos don't seem to be taking that very seriously, do they?

And hi, DJ. The handwriting on the note looks closer to Amanda Knox's, but I'll post some of Raffaele's writing up for comparison purposes.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

DJLawless wrote:
dgfred wrote:
At this point I am really started to wonder more about that rental poster that was made shortly after the murder. Sounds more and more like the two... handwriting or not.


I have studied that rental note extensively and am convinced that they jointly handwrote that note. When you look at the individual letters, you can see that some are distinctly Amanda's hand and some are solicito's. I started comparing them when the letter was first published and seems plain as day to me. I imagine they were quite impressed with their cleverness. pfffftt!!!



I always thought it was her too, don't know about his handwriting, I didn't study it for his, maybe you are right, I need to take another look.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I wonder if Sollecito gives a shit about his new girl or is she just a tool too, like the American girl was, I reckon he has her for the show, look at me, nice Mr Quiet guy with his nice girl. I think poor her. God knows what he told her to convince her of his story.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline The Bard


User avatar


Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:46 pm

Posts: 2486

Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell - will you be loading the records up onto the Meredith Kercher Wiki? I think they would be an excellent addition to the site, and something that the wider public would benefit from being able to reference.

_________________
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:08 pm   Post subject: Re: DISARRAY IN THE FOA   

Ergon wrote:
--- snip ---

Quote:
BruceFischer wrote:
No one is attacking anyone. Here is a good article explaining the current situation.
Who will stop the tanks?
http://gmancasefile.com/1/post/2014/08/ ... tanks.html


--- snap ---


Bruce Fischer is so dimwitted it's depressing.

It feels like Sfarzogate all over again, telling people what they saw and how to interpret it. His members are not allowed to draw their own conclusions. They are told off immediately.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

The Bard wrote:
Nell - will you be loading the records up onto the Meredith Kercher Wiki? I think they would be an excellent addition to the site, and something that the wider public would benefit from being able to reference.


Hi Bard,

Sure. Good idea.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:13 pm   Post subject: HANDWRITING PRANK   

Digging through our archives, this news report from The Telegraph November 05, 2007

Quote:
Yesterday (Nov.04, 2007) a sick joke was pinned to the front door of the University For Foreigners, where she studied. The mock advertisement offered Miss Kercher's room for rent, stipulating that it had a good view, and that an "English Girl, preferably an Erasmus student" was wanted. The phone number to call was the date of her death, November 1, 2007.


Much discussed here by Michael, guermantes, Piktor and others around May 2010. Handwriting compared between rental note and her prison diary, and the consensus was the note had been written by two people (numbers vs. letters and figures, rounded and pointed A's, N's and E's, R's etc.)

We have quite a few samples of her writing, I'll see if I can rustle up his :)

Yummi made a good point back then:
Quote:
"no Italian would write "NO PERDITEMPO" This is an americanization. An Italian would say: "Non perdere tempo!" or "Non c'e' tempo da perdere!" but never "no perditempo". Perditempo is an adjective and means lazy. Sometimes is used as a noun "Tu sei un perditempo", it means "you are a lazy person".


Here's a very interesting find: http://www.lagiustainformazione2.it/mer ... ilith.html which aside from its supernatural leaning (I have no problem with that) has this Google translate bit from Rebel:

Quote:
Here is a Googlated snippet from the article:
"Looking at the handwriting, even in capital letters, you will easily recognize a woman's hand, because there are classic signs of graphology, which leads back to the woman. I can not here develop the analysis graphology, but you know that tonight we open the discussion on the Forum, under Monster of Florence, and there we dwell in detail."


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:33 am   Post subject: Re: HANDWRITING PRANK   

Ergon wrote:
--- snip ---

Digging through our archives, this news report from The Telegraph November 05, 2007

Quote:
Yesterday (Nov.04, 2007) a sick joke was pinned to the front door of the University For Foreigners, where she studied. The mock advertisement offered Miss Kercher's room for rent, stipulating that it had a good view, and that an "English Girl, preferably an Erasmus student" was wanted. The phone number to call was the date of her death, November 1, 2007.


--- snap ---


Amanda Knox is very fond of mockery.

The rental note reminds me of Knox's insensitive email where she blamed Meredith for the dirty bathroom. Knox has a way of retaliating cowardly.

In her book she describes Meredith's friends as intolerant and blames it on their culture.

Quote:
“At dinner, I discovered that Meredith’s friends fit the reserved British profile. I’m sure I struck them as a stereotypically loud American. I was energetic and outspoken, even by nonconformist Seattle’s standards, and I was probably louder than I meant to be. While we were sitting around the restaurant table sipping wine and eating pizza, I started singing some song that was popular then. But what drew laughs in Seattle got embarrassed looks in Perugia. It hadn’t dawned on me that the same quirks my friends at home found endearing could actually offend people who were less accepting of differences. A person more attuned to social norms would probably have realized that immature antics didn’t play well here.”


People who rent out rooms to students usually don't care what nationality they are. That the note says "English Erasmus student preferably" is a clue of how Amanda Knox felt about Meredith Kercher. She blamed her.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline astro


User avatar


Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 2:02 pm

Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:51 am   Post subject: Re: HANDWRITING PRANK   

Ergon wrote:
Digging through our archives, this news report from The Telegraph November 05, 2007

Quote:
Yesterday (Nov.04, 2007) a sick joke was pinned to the front door of the University For Foreigners, where she studied. The mock advertisement offered Miss Kercher's room for rent, stipulating that it had a good view, and that an "English Girl, preferably an Erasmus student" was wanted. The phone number to call was the date of her death, November 1, 2007.


Much discussed here by Michael, guermantes, Piktor and others around May 2010. Handwriting compared between rental note and her prison diary, and the consensus was the note had been written by two people (numbers vs. letters and figures, rounded and pointed A's, N's and E's, R's etc.)

We have quite a few samples of her writing, I'll see if I can rustle up his :)

Yummi made a good point back then:
Quote:
"no Italian would write "NO PERDITEMPO" This is an americanization. An Italian would say: "Non perdere tempo!" or "Non c'e' tempo da perdere!" but never "no perditempo". Perditempo is an adjective and means lazy. Sometimes is used as a noun "Tu sei un perditempo", it means "you are a lazy person".



Interesting! Thanks for posting.
The top pic if from her diary and the bottom is the prank note (which sounds like something she would do.)
Question:Where is the middle pic from?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Hi, Astro, the middle one is from her prison diary.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I have no doubt the note was written by Amanda Knox.

That a few letters are not exactly the same does not bother me. I myself tend to write a few letters differently for no particular reason. I don't think every letter needs to be exactly the same when everything else matches so closely as it does in this case.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Lauren Bacall just passed away. One smart, sexy actress. RIP.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

In the meantime, in an alternate universe:

Quote:
"The nonsense floating around on Twitter and elsewhere about this is laughable. Michelle posted a series of heartfelt emotional Tweets to Raffaele that she later decided would be best suited for a private discussion. So she deleted them. Of course, there are people online that spend every minute monitoring the internet, so Michelle's Tweets were saved in a useless guilter archive to be read by tens of people."


Image


I am glad Bruce Fischer cleared that up for us. We misunderstood. Michelle Moore did not publicly attack Raffaele Sollecito, she only posted tweets that she later decided were better hidden from public view. Gotcha!

Image

Image

Image


The FOA are desperate to hide the fact that Raffaele Sollecito has publicly withdrawn Knox's alibi by stating she was not with him the entire night. That is exactly what he stated to police and he also repeated this claim in his prison diary. In court he did not confirm her alibi.

Amanda Knox's supporters have always treated the withdrawal of the alibi as if it did not exist. After Raffaele Sollecito and his lawyer Giulia Bongiorno addressed this in his recent press conference, Knox supporters tried to twist it to mean something else so they did not have to admit he threw her under the bus.

As you can see from Michelle Moore's tweets (now deleted), the FOA are not ignorant about the fact he betrayed Knox, they are fully aware. It's just the first time someone from her supporters has publicly admitted to it.

Of course, Bruce Fischer is quick to do some damage control.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:26 am   Post subject: MICHELLE MOORE STRIKES AGAIN   

Thanks to Da Man Jack for this screen grab of Michelle Moore's attack on Giulia Bongiorno before she deleted it. She's apologizing to Raffaele Sollecito now, after ranting at him before, calling it differences between friends, language difficulties :)

ETA: I see you already have it, Nell :)


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Of course Bruce is quick to do damage control, Nell. He follows us religiously ;)
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Bruce also omits to tell us that Steve Moore's recent 'tanks' blog is a direct attack on Raffaele's family, and one Dr. David Anderson posted an adulatory comment calling for attacks on the Kerchers. We are indeed free to hold those opinions, confirmed by our own eyes.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline ttrroonniicc


Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:12 pm

Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michelle Moore saying that detective Monica Napoleoni is giving Amanda Knox a "jealous look", in this photograph. More likely that she's looking at the deep scratch on Knoxs neck. The scratch was on the right hand side - glaringly apparent.



Top Profile 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Careful, ttrroonniicc, you'll have Annella applying a vacuum cleaner nozzle to her neck again to prove "see, hickeys DO look like this!"
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline ttrroonniicc


Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:12 pm

Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
Careful, ttrroonniicc, you'll have Annella applying a vacuum cleaner nozzle to her neck again to prove "see, hickeys DO look like this!"

Too long. Wrong position. Healing (police photograph one week later), consistant with that of a scratch. The strongest evidence on Knox.

Top Profile 

Offline ttrroonniicc


Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:12 pm

Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

How cold and scared they look here. Drugs wearing off, the nightmare begins. They realised right away that they're a focus. They were obvious, suspicous outside the cottage. And that neck scratch. "how did you get that scratch on you neck Amanda? It wasn't there yesterday". On the face of Sollecito, self pity.

Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:18 am   Post subject: Re: DISARRAY IN THE FOA   

Nell wrote:
Ergon wrote:
--- snip ---

Quote:
BruceFischer wrote:
No one is attacking anyone. Here is a good article explaining the current situation.
Who will stop the tanks?
http://gmancasefile.com/1/post/2014/08/ ... tanks.html


--- snap ---


Bruce Fischer is so dimwitted it's depressing.

It feels like Sfarzogate all over again, telling people what they saw and how to interpret it. His members are not allowed to draw their own conclusions. They are told off immediately.



Members of the Knox Club don't need to think, that's all laid on. Just like any cult, really.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
Thanks to Da Man Jack for this screen grab of Michelle Moore's attack on Giulia Bongiorno before she deleted it. She's apologizing to Raffaele Sollecito now, after ranting at him before, calling it differences between friends, language difficulties


LOL, how the hell can it be language difficulties when Michelle is speaking in her own language? I know she's half illiterate, but still.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Nell wrote:
I have no doubt the note was written by Amanda Knox.

That a few letters are not exactly the same does not bother me. I myself tend to write a few letters differently for no particular reason. I don't think every letter needs to be exactly the same when everything else matches so closely as it does in this case.



Exactly, look at my handwriting, not literally, but, it's awful, it looks like something wrote with a broken hand and arm, in fact, after a wee while, I could never identify my own writing, rather, I'll say, shit, this handwriting is awful, who wrote this?

Her writing though is that regimented type making it is easy to identify as hers.
It's clearer than she is.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

I'm wondering how much weed 100 dollars bought her via that bf, a lot, I think.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline ttrroonniicc


Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:12 pm

Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
I have no doubt the note was written by Amanda Knox.

That a few letters are not exactly the same does not bother me. I myself tend to write a few letters differently for no particular reason. I don't think every letter needs to be exactly the same when everything else matches so closely as it does in this case.



Exactly, look at my handwriting, not literally, but, it's awful, it looks like something wrote with a broken hand and arm, in fact, after a wee while, I could never identify my own writing, rather, I'll say, shit, this handwriting is awful, who wrote this?

Her writing though is that regimented type making it is easy to identify as hers.
It's clearer than she is.

first glance - immediately saw, written by a female. You don't have to be a graphologist to see that a certaint type of lettering (rounded lettering), is. Secondly, many of the letters match the capitalised note of Knox. Thirdly, who else would do it. Knox was trying to belittle the deed, the victim 'who cares' "shit happens". Why wasn't she at the memorial service for Meredith Kercher? Because she had adopted an attitude of callous disregard, which she, with that notice for example, wanted other people to adopt too. Minimalising the person, the matter. Wanting other people to. Wanting them on her side. Also the 'americanization' of the term. It wasn't written by an italian. It was dictated by an italian (Sollecito), & written by an american.


Last edited by ttrroonniicc on Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top Profile 

Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Posts: 497

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

One thing you can point to is the age of the author It certainly was not written by a kid or young teen , the age when pranks are common. The person was at least a young adult. Something posted so quickly is also suspicious, isn't that where Amanda initially saw an ad with Deanna for the cottage? I think there is evidence that someone Italian at least helped unless she was clever enough to copy the distinctive style of the ones . The m looks Italian too but is similar to the way AK made hers.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

It sure does make you lean more to the maniac/sociopath/killer side of the two... against the stupid/high/stupid/high side I always leaned toward. English, not lazy, Erasmus, date of the murder. Unbelievable. I really doubt it could have been anybody else at this point.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Thanks to Da Man Jack for this screen grab of Michelle Moore's attack on Giulia Bongiorno before she deleted it. She's apologizing to Raffaele Sollecito now, after ranting at him before, calling it differences between friends, language difficulties


LOL, how the hell can it be language difficulties when Michelle is speaking in her own language? I know she's half illiterate, but still.



nw) ar-))


Her mouth has difficulties interpreting what her mind is trying to get out... or her mind has trouble thinking what her mouth wants to say.

oop-)

With 'helpers' like Bruiser and MMOO who the heck needs haters/guilters/etc. sc-))

sur-)
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:54 pm   Post subject: HANDWRITING ANALYSIS   

Correction courtesy of Popper he doubted Yummi was the source of the "NO PERDITEMPO" remark. Yummi was disagreeing with it, but since it was in an unattributed quote box in his post my search came up with him being quoted as the author back then.

The discussion began around May 05-06, 2010, and the actual quote was by UlaOp, sorry. viewtopic.php?p=44635#p44635

Scroll up and down from the link and you'll get a good idea of the handwriting discussion back then.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline astro


User avatar


Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 2:02 pm

Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
Of course Bruce is quick to do damage control, Nell. He follows us religiously ;)


lol I think Bruce considers you 'the new Messiah' and hangs on your every word. It appears that he has been trying to convert people in commentaries all over the web.
p-))
Thx for answering previous question @ pic.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Knox's lawyer is now her "ex" lawyer:

Amanda Knox's Ex-Lawyer: Case Is a 'Nightmare That Should End'

Wednesday, 13 Aug 2014 10:51 AM

By Nick Sanchez


THE WIRE

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Part of me thinks, that the REAL reason Ted Simon was hired by the Melloxes was simply to shut him up giving talking head interviews to a domestic audience about Knox, where he painted a situation of there being a strong case against her.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline astro


User avatar


Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 2:02 pm

Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, Astro, the middle one is from her prison diary.


Thx!
Here is something that may be of interest.. why there may have been two writers of this note, as if one person began it and someone else added to the bottom.. the #2 on the top part matches ak to a 't' while the bottom looks written by someone else... do you have any numbers written by raf?


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
Part of me thinks, that the REAL reason Ted Simon was hired by the Melloxes was simply to shut him up giving talking head interviews to a domestic audience about Knox, where he painted a situation of there being a strong case against her.



Methinks he wants out of the Seattle Sewer, some might say there's just a lot of hot gas, he wants out before the shithouse blows up! ... and, he is left looking like a dishonest individual with no real expertise or brain.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

astro wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Hi, Astro, the middle one is from her prison diary.


Thx!
Here is something that may be of interest.. why there may have been two writers of this note, as if one person began it and someone else added to the bottom.. the #2 on the top part matches ak to a 't' while the bottom looks written by someone else... do you have any numbers written by raf?



It all looks astoundingly identical if you ask me, if one slowly compares various letters, even given that each person may write slightly differently depending on mood, tiredness, etc., there are sequences of letters --also how they are linked to one another and this is even visible between combinations of a couple of letters in small case and those letters using capitals-- that are simply identical.

Could it be, ?????? that, they had hung this up just prior to the murder and something weird was going on already, but not necessarily that they had planned on murdering Meredith, as I do not think they did plan it, not with any prolonged space of time over which it was contemplated, but the depths of cruelty they then went on to stoop down to, talking short length of time, may well have seen them making split-second decisions, spur of the moment, entirely wound up like a spring coil, waiting to unwind uncontrollably, because it is truly ordinary circumstances that preface people going nuts, this is why, I think, certain little bits have stuck in my head, out of everything said, I can hear her voice saying: It was stupid.

I think, it was stupid is a main ingredient in it all, because what led into what happened was really trivial, it meshes into that where she was already being uptight with people who were, by all accounts, supposed to be friends, meaning here, her own telephonic history accounts as shown above, show that she wasn't for instance, interacting with Spyros as a stranger, nor were they distant, but seemed to be interacting as friends, on a daily basis, like, well, let's do smt 'great' tomorrow, etc., one does not need to provide an explanation to someone that they were only kidding in the last mail about being uptight about the calling, no, the truth is, she WAS uptight.

I know some people are lovely, almost Christ-like in their non-need of sexual contact, but I ask myself with a female at that age, did this young, probably non-practicing monk, take it upon himself, in his head, to act as this foreign young female's great big pal, sexual intercourse sir, how dare you I would never think of it, I just like calling her up all hours of the day that's all, nothing wrong with that, it's not a crime, said he, sex no sir, why, I am a young man, I like having the friends, I'm always calling my mate Joe when he is in class, to see if there's anything I can do for him, like maybe I could carry his books, lend him money, get him a smoke, buy him a coffee, offer to paint his room, give him a massage!!!

Ring ring, ring ring

Noxa: Pronto, who's this?
The Castrated Friend: Hi, how you, you in class, anything I can do to help, anything I can do for you, shopping, wanna go for coffee?
Noxa: Yes, probably, but I'm in class, remember? I told you 10 times already.
The Castrated Friend: Yes sorry, beautiful
Noxa: I have a boyfriend now
The Castrated Friend: What, him, the heroin guy

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

By the way, that bit with the Noxa lawyer, Teddy Bear, it's been entered in "the most uninformed, misleading articles of the last 10 years" competition.

I grant, in the competition there is whole lot of competition since almost all articles written on this in America are incredibly poor, however, it's bound to be a runner up in the last 1000.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

So how IS reality in the two relevant departments?

Mr Sol, what is it he heaps upon his young bethrothed, er, I'm just going out to get YOU a pizza!

Young Girl: But you know I don't like pizza!

Mr Sol: Yes but, be back in a minute or 25 years.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top Profile 

Offline SqueakEMouse


User avatar


Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:25 pm

Posts: 184

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
Part of me thinks, that the REAL reason Ted Simon was hired by the Melloxes was simply to shut him up giving talking head interviews to a domestic audience about Knox, where he painted a situation of there being a strong case against her.



Methinks he wants out of the Seattle Sewer, some might say there's just a lot of hot gas, he wants out before the shithouse blows up! ... and, he is left looking like a dishonest individual with no real expertise or brain.



LOOKING like it ?? He IS ! For having been stupid and greedy enough to have taken the Knox shilling in the first place when he knew full well (and publicly stated) that she was in serious trouble and could see for himself the type of characters that the family was using and their tactics. The sewage has long since reached higher than his boots and filled them to the brim. He squelches when he walks and it spews out when he talks. He deserves to sink as deep as they do.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline SqueakEMouse


User avatar


Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:25 pm

Posts: 184

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIX. MAIN DISCUSSION, AUG 1 -   

Michael wrote:
Knox's lawyer is now her "ex" lawyer:

Amanda Knox's Ex-Lawyer: Case Is a 'Nightmare That Should End'

Wednesday, 13 Aug 2014 10:51 AM

By Nick Sanchez


THE WIRE



I imagine he had his own nightmares in mind rather than hers.
Top Profile E-mail 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 2 of 33 [ 8226 posts ]
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 33  Next


Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

  

Judge Massei Sentencing Report     The Meredith Kercher Fund     The Murder Of Meredith Kercher Wiki     True Justice For Meredith Kercher     Judge Nencini Sentencing Report 


28,671,478 Views