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XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30, 13 - JULY 31, 14

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

GOOGLE TRANSLATION:

Sollecito's defense has distanced itself
Amanda: "Knox uniquely guilty"



Sunday, June 22, 2014

ROME - The appeal to the Supreme Court is not that far away and the defense of Raffaele Sollecito prepares its strategy. His lawyers are ready to present a defense that removes former girlfriend Amanda Knox.
In the last verdict was sentenced to 25 years in prison for being the killer, along with amerciana student, Meredith Kercher.
Now the defense seeks to differentiate clearly between the positions of the two co-defendants, making it clear that the only culprit could be Amanda, but then is Sollecito aware of details never revealed before?



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

GOOGLE TRANSLATION:

Meredith murder, Sollecito's lawyers: "Amanda sole culprit"
In the appeal to the Supreme Court, lawyers for Sollecito unmarked by Amanda, asking the courts to take into account the different roles of the defendants in the case.


He approaches the final outcome for the complicated legal case of the murder of Meredith Kercher, the young British student murdered in Perugia in his home from college now than seven years ago. After the first four stages of the process in which they accused the then-roommate Meredith, the American student Amanda Knox and her boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito at the time, soon it will come again to the Supreme Court. In its application to the last degree of judgment Sollecito's lawyers, however, take this time clearly distanced himself from Amanda, asking the courts to recognize the innocence of man than even the different position with respect to the former girlfriend. In their appeal to the Supreme Court lawyers Giulia Bongiorno and Luca Maori, in fact, recall that was never explored the role of the individual and their client list a number of elements come out of the process in which Sollecito takes a different position than the other charged . With this stance the legal Sollecito, who was sentenced last verdict to 25 years in prison, and then seem to want to adopt a new defensive line distancing from the American student whose role in the murder of Meredith until now has always been linked to the Boy Puglia.


The appeal to the Supreme Court of the legal Sollecito

The lawyers Bongiorno and Maori in practice argue that "the possibility that Raffaele Sollecito had taken a different position than that of the other two accomplices resulted from a series of elements imbued with meaning." The key elements for the defenders are the fact that "inside the memorial, Amanda Knox has only placed herself at the crime scene at the time of the scream," but also that "the witness Quintavalle claimed to have seen, in the morning of 2 November 2007, Amanda Knox did not mention the presence of Sollecito on those occasions. " For lawyers also lacks the motive given that "the weak motive of solidarity could not rationally explain the escalation of violence" that led to the death of Meredith. For this reason, in the appeal to the Supreme Court point out that "the evidence relied on in the judgment at the expense of Sollecito could have, if anything, lead to the decision to confront the possibility of a minor contribution" of their client, in essence only "activity to facilitate to the then-girlfriend. "



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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
If in some far-fetched scenario Sollecito were to get off and Knox extradited, does anyone in their right mind think she would keep the act up forever while sat in prison while he instead of her is free? She is going to reveal exactly what his part is as she is never going to stay in prison all of those years while he does not, she will prefer to admit guilt and take him down than suffer in silence. They are one another's prisoner.


I highly doubt it. Not everyone cracks. Guede never has, neither will Knox, no matter what will happen. Sollecito is different. He is an exception. None of them will ever reveal what they did to poor Meredith that night. In case I am wrong and the day should come when all three or one of them comes clean, you can kiss goodbye your crime theory about an escalating fight that ended in murder.


Zorba wrote:
The improper use of the word EXCELLENT really gets on my nerves! It's getting ruined for me through the sick over and undeserving use of it.


Even though you have not named me, I assume you are talking about my post. Sorry to hear my comment did not please you.


Zorba wrote:
Additionally, this self-important posing, like writing ''Main Posters'' on Quennel's site is something I see as weird, you have posters, and then on there I see some who have posted once, then they are called main poster, one of, but what a bunch of bullshit, posters nothing more, all this self-important aggrandization makes me want to puke, because it is not about anyone's own shit it is about a murder for fuck's sake.


Drop him an email and let him know how you feel about it and how he could improve things over at TJMK. The more collaborators, the better. True Justice Meredith Kercher is one of the best websites out there informing the public about the Knox PR campaign and what's going on with the case.

I don't see anything self-important about using the term "Main Posters", it's probably just used by default every time more than one person collaborated with an article.



Wasn't at all about you Nell, it is about the Machine Peter Quennel, Ergon and whoever else has started saying as a preface to everything, excellent, excellent this excellent that, it was Machine who kept writing this, while announcing things like what is going be as though he had secret info, from the senior supreme court judges, of course it may in fact be the way it is going to be and turn out, but until it happens nobody van know so the presumptuousness, is not funny, it's unhelpful... why can't people come up with their very own ideas instead of copying?


Thank you for clarifying Zorba. I used the word in my latest comment on TJMK and I thought it was a reference to it.

I don't know what secret info you are referring to. I have not seen The Machine making any comments of that sorts.

I would like to stress though that Peter Quennell's website True Justice Meredith Kercher was the first and only one of its kind reporting comprehensively about the Meredith Kercher murder case. TJMK delivered what the professional media lacked. If it wasn't for the initiative of Peter Quennell (and all those who have contributed to his website and the cause of justice for Meredith Kercher in general), the public would only know what the Knox PR campaign wants them to believe.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

GOOGLE TRANSLATION:


Crime of Perugia, Sollecito's defense has distanced itself from Amanda Knox

Written by: Daniel Particelli - Sunday, June 22, 2014

It is learned from the contents of the appeal filed on June 16.

The defense of Raffaele Sollecito, who was sentenced along with Amanda Knox in the appeal of a trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher, who was killed on November 1, 2007 in Perugia, decided groped another way and to distance himself from the position of Amanda Knox presented in the appeal to the Supreme Court in recent days.

At 7 years from the barbaric murder and five degrees of judgment, counting the preliminary hearing, lawyers Giulia Bongiorno and Luca Maori ask the courts not only to fulfill Raffaele Sollecito, but also to evaluate its position as independent from that of the American student.

Until now, in fact, the positions of the two suspects have been intertwined issues and convictions are proof. Now, however, things may change, The Journal writes today Dell'Umbria:

In Section XXIV of the action, in fact, the lawyers Bongiorno and Maori are saying that we would be faced with a case of 'breach of the principle of the beyond a reasonable doubt, in order to withholding inability to differentiate the positions of Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox "and failure to motivate even" in relation to the eventual changing the classification of the charge of murder and application of diminishing. "

The Court, the lawyers say the two, so far, "he denied any deepening of individual roles to avoid taking any position as to the alternative reconstructive hypotheses."

There would be numerous elements that prove the different position of the two suspects, from the memorial of Amanda Knox in which the young American was speaking in the singular about what happened that night in Via della Pergola.

On the knife of what has been referred to as the murder weapon, then, there is no trace of Sollecito. The Court reiterated the two lawyers:

has not even considered the possibility of changing the classification of the contribution of Sollecito in a less severe cases and the evidence relied on in the judgment at the expense of Sollecito - not suitable to prove criminal liability in connection with the murder, also expected the overt absence of motive in chief accused - could have, if anything, lead to the decision to confront the possibility of a minor contribution.

The first hearing in the Supreme Court, remember, should be held not earlier than 12 months from the date of filing of appeal on June 16.



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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks Michael for all the news reports. Even though Amanda Knox supporters keep denying the obvious, Sollecito is effectively distancing himself from her.

His family even goes as far as saying Amanda Knox could have been responsible for Meredith's murder.

Too little, too late.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Thanks Michael for all the news reports. Even though Amanda Knox supporters keep denying the obvious, Sollecito is effectively distancing himself from her.

His family even goes as far as saying Amanda Knox could have been responsible for Meredith's murder.

Too little, too late.



The thing is, it's not the first time he's done this. It was, after all, his original play. In his statements on the night of his arrest he said Knox went out and left him. His lawyers (or his family, or himself) then decided it would be best to back-peddle and say Knox was "probably" with him all evening. The latter didn't work, so now he's trying to edge back towards his original statement that got Knox in hot water (without saying it right out of course). Except, both strategies have completely failed already. At any time, any of the judges could have concluded in their motivations, that they felt Sollecito's original statement that dumped Knox's alibi was in fact actually the truth but they didn't, because they did not accept that he remained at his apartment all evening due to the evidence found at the cottage and provided by witnesses.

His appeal, almost in its entirety, is made up of arguments and claims that have already failed in the previous courts. The rest is made up of complaints about what amounts to little more then clerical errors and typos. He and Knox don't stand a chance at the High Court.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Machine has done more to help the cause of Meredith Kercher and her family, and has been more constant in that support than most. Peter Quennell has done much good as well, and I think we owe every one involved in setting up the four pro-justice sites a certain amount of civility.

But I do confess to my over use of the adjective 'excellent'; next time I'll consult my Thesaurusex :)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

According to one of the articles above, the soonest date we can see for the High Court appeal is June 2015...as, apparently, it can't be sooner then 12 months after the date of their filing of their appeals. I hope that's wrong as otherwise, we've got a very long wait.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
The Machine has done more to help the cause of Meredith Kercher and her family, and has been more constant in that support than most. Peter Quennell has done much good as well, and I think we owe every one involved in setting up the four pro-justice sites a certain amount of civility.

But I do confess to my over use of the adjective 'excellent'; next time I'll consult my Thesaurusex :)


Excellent!!! :)

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Terrible.

Yeah but your ideas Ergon help to allow people's individuality to be robbed.

Keeping on announcing that something is fantastic, great, marvellous, etc., by always using this word you all discovered called excellent just because ring master Machine uses it, what good is that, surely someone could come up with a different option. I don't know what the Machine has done that has helped so much since I haven't got together with the judges, prosecutors, scientists and police to discuss how they used him, what I don't like is the presumptuousness of announcing things in the way the Machine does, you can say, I think, my view is, in my opinion they are definitely going to have the guilty ruling confirmed by the Supreme Court, but Mr Machine announces it as if he is the one dictating to the judges what will happen, he knows, but they don't know, yet.

This is why I agree with Popper, that Barbie's article possibly was short of excellent, he described why.

Anyhow, this is all magnificently first class what what


brilliant
first-rate
great
master
good
quite good
rather good
outstanding
superb
wonderful
super
marvellous
splendid
awesome
well thought out
ace
meritable
commendable
possibly decent
more than decent
reasonable
extraordinary
powerful
substantiated
well-underpinned
well-grounded
insightful
brilliant
thorough and well backed-up

astonishing
astounding
breathtakingly good
colossal
dynamite
fab
fabulous
fantastic
fat
huge
marvellous
mind-blowing
mind-boggling
miraculous
monstrously
monumental
revealing
phenomenal
smashing
spectacular
staggeringly accurate
surprisingly good

tremendous
wondrous

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I suppose it all comes down to what kind of person you are...whether you always see the glass as being half full...or half empty. Some people just aren't happy unless they have something to complain about.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
The Machine has done more to help the cause of Meredith Kercher and her family, and has been more constant in that support than most. Peter Quennell has done much good as well, and I think we owe every one involved in setting up the four pro-justice sites a certain amount of civility.

But I do confess to my over use of the adjective 'excellent'; next time I'll consult my Thesaurusex :)



Good show, marvellous, wonderful, wunderbar or however that's said in German.

Popper was saying then, that he thinks journalists should do better than what they are doing, on Barbie, he says she failed to touch on the important points and talks about something based on a newspaper/magazine thing instead.

I still appreciate bits of Barbie but I lost truth in her, the trust I'd felt, that she wad genuine, when she did a few strange things, one of which was, in the oh so pleasant and convenient situation of journos in court all day getting together for dinner enjoying probably well-earned dinners, which are never going to be bad in Italy, along with the aperitifs, the wines, white through to red, the digestivo, the talk, or maybe chit-chat, where Barbie morphed into Nick Pisa, that freaked me out, seems like they were falling in love, who knows, but she started saying stuff the way he'd been saying it, I think he influenced her, maybe they were flirting about, who knows, maybe he, being there years, longer than Barbie anyhow I think, did influence her, did she look up to the fool, the trash writer supreme? one who should have had the ability to write far better things but since he sold his soul to the Daily Mail, never does, and likes to stir shit up instead by leading people on into the realms of speculation, and Barbie morphing into him?
I had already grown sick of that man, since he wrote misleading stuff for the crappiest papers, and to me, it seemed like he had no principles at all, as in, would write any old shit for pay.

That's why I freaked when I read Barbie was out dining with him, I knew it would be bad, then she started writing the same shit as he had been putting out, she did in part, only her stuff remained better than anything he wrote, he never backed anything up and spoke as so many do, as though everything, concepts, terms, legal rules, were all based on something from America or Britain and that is a big mistake, d1oing that, since in Italy there is no bargaining as known in the USA or in the UK< the practitioner s of law have no space for own discretion when it comes down to interpretation of the law, this is what it means when it says each law is written, yes and if it says must be sentenced2 from 25 to 30 years, a policeman or prosecutor cannot get together with a defendant and offer a reduced sentence if the defendant squeals on the buddies, the prosecutor is bound by law to prosecute for what the crimes are, and not according to what he/she wants to make of it, the prosecutor must prosecute when made aware or becoming aware that a crime has been committed, and must prosecute for the crime as it is, not bastardised into something else in order to be able to offer a sentence reduction for what is learned from the defendant, when the police, for instance, want to capture a gang, and make a sacrifice by not being able to punish the one defendant, in order to grab the lot of them, it's worth it to them (in the UK and the USA), but because of this method, there is plenty of room for messing around with the law and for people to profit from crime and more or less buy the law off.

Until Barbie started chit chatting with Pisa she was good, quite good (sill used English based terms, like jury when there are no juries in Italy, jurors, it is not good to use those words because the English speaker immediately assumes things are taking place in the same was as they do back home, this is why the procedures have to be described differently to make sure people are aware that the case is being conducted in Italy in an Italian system, and not in the UK or in the USA., I found sad as it seems until she started listening to his views she seemed to make sense. Later, when she started on about obsessed people, I took that as a great insult to all those who are not obsessed but are instead mindful persons who want to see a caring society and who have been astounded at the awful things that happened to a young woman, Meredith, therefore, why is it Barbie thinks she has a God-given right to be busy with this case for PAY while those who are just busy with it (with no financial gain) from a human angle, are then the obsessed, I think Barbie was grossly insulting, then off she went, on-scene, giving advice on some crap film based on some bits of her book, based somehow on Meredith's murder, I don't know but it seems Andrea didn't drink Pisa's grape flavoured sugar water and isn't easily influenced.

Basically though, I do still think Barbie has done a decent job and like her in the overall scheme of things, then again, exactly as Popper said, I too think she could do a bit better, so that means cover a thing and cover it properly, and put time and energy into it or don't bother at all covering it, so if she needs to get a bit obsessed by all means, I hope she does, then the relative matters will get covered from an angle founded on knowledge of legal facts and not based on speculation and gossip and things that will never play a part.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
I suppose it all comes down to what kind of person you are...whether you always see the glass as being half full...or half empty. Some people just aren't happy unless they have something to complain about.



That's right, not me though because I just love praising everyone and referring to my own work as fantastic, call it excellent and placing myself in a group, everything my group says is gold, excellento, just because it's all about us and them.

La la la, I reckon on the quiet though, that the most is achieved when every human being acts like the individual that he or she is, meaning, using the own mind fully and coming up with own things not copying Fred next door just because they are pals, if a thing is good... that's great, then a descriptive word carefully selected to reflect the degree of whatever is good about it, is fitting, but if it isn't so fantastico, I reckon don't be too swift with the dishing out of medals.
Hello, this is my new pop record, it is excellent as my work always is.

For instance, Popper never talks shit, there are a few like him/her that I admire for that, it is someone who knows what he/she is talking about, and offers true insight, I find what Popper just said about maybe not excellent, accurate, Popper though didn't just think it based on nothing, there are reasons which have been explained by Popper, for thinking Barbie's latest article wasn't too great at all. So excellent is a far stretch away from not too good, not very accurate.
When mediocre even inaccurate stuff is getting labelled excellent I think it needs to be pointed out that this is not the case.



Anyway comrades, keep up the excellent work, where it is.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yes, but whilst Popper's posts are of great value, he doesn't do the sort of work for Meredith The Machine does all over the web, or that Quennell does in running TJMK. Each serve their purpose and it's a good purpose. As a result, I think they deserve being cut some slack. I could sit here and publicly nitpick all my pet peeves about those that strive for Meredith, but what good does that do? I'd just look like a grumpy old whinger. If someone thinks they can do a better job, they should by all means start their own project for Meredith and if it has merit certainly others will jump on board. If they choose not to do that, they can at least refrain from standing on the sidelines and throwing rocks. One can choose to be constructive or destructive. I know which is better.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

June 23, 2014

The Knox Interrogation Hoax #8:
Further Testimony Of Fourth Main Witness To Knox Conniption 5-6 Nov


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Yes, but whilst Popper's posts are of great value, he doesn't do the sort of work for Meredith The Machine does all over the web, or that Quennell does in running TJMK. Each serve their purpose and it's a good purpose. As a result, I think they deserve being cut some slack. I could sit here and publicly nitpick all my pet peeves about those that strive for Meredith, but what good does that do? I'd just look like a grumpy old whinger. If someone thinks they can do a better job, they should by all means start their own project for Meredith and if it has merit certainly others will jump on board. If they choose not to do that, they can at least refrain from standing on the sidelines and throwing rocks. One can choose to be constructive or destructive. I know which is better.



I understand the main theme, only I do not know if talking all over the internet with that presumptuous tone, is really helpful.

God, whoever that is: bless them

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Yes, but whilst Popper's posts are of great value, he doesn't do the sort of work for Meredith The Machine does all over the web, or that Quennell does in running TJMK. Each serve their purpose and it's a good purpose. As a result, I think they deserve being cut some slack. I could sit here and publicly nitpick all my pet peeves about those that strive for Meredith, but what good does that do? I'd just look like a grumpy old whinger. If someone thinks they can do a better job, they should by all means start their own project for Meredith and if it has merit certainly others will jump on board. If they choose not to do that, they can at least refrain from standing on the sidelines and throwing rocks. One can choose to be constructive or destructive. I know which is better.



I know not what this involves; is Quennel in it froma callng or will he want to make money off of this?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
Yes, but whilst Popper's posts are of great value, he doesn't do the sort of work for Meredith The Machine does all over the web, or that Quennell does in running TJMK. Each serve their purpose and it's a good purpose. As a result, I think they deserve being cut some slack. I could sit here and publicly nitpick all my pet peeves about those that strive for Meredith, but what good does that do? I'd just look like a grumpy old whinger. If someone thinks they can do a better job, they should by all means start their own project for Meredith and if it has merit certainly others will jump on board. If they choose not to do that, they can at least refrain from standing on the sidelines and throwing rocks. One can choose to be constructive or destructive. I know which is better.



I know not what this involves; is Quennel in it froma callng or will he want to make money off of this?


Wouldn't that be a question best directed at him. We are not mind readers.

The only people who have accepted donations to my knowledge were Frank Sfarzo, Bruce Fischer and the defendants.

I find your comment almost offenssive. After so many years and all the effort that Peter Quennell, The Machine and others have put into countering the Amanda Knox PR campaign on a volunteer basis, what makes you think any of them would want to financially profit from this?

That is not something that springs to mind when thinking about TJMK.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
Yes, but whilst Popper's posts are of great value, he doesn't do the sort of work for Meredith The Machine does all over the web, or that Quennell does in running TJMK. Each serve their purpose and it's a good purpose. As a result, I think they deserve being cut some slack. I could sit here and publicly nitpick all my pet peeves about those that strive for Meredith, but what good does that do? I'd just look like a grumpy old whinger. If someone thinks they can do a better job, they should by all means start their own project for Meredith and if it has merit certainly others will jump on board. If they choose not to do that, they can at least refrain from standing on the sidelines and throwing rocks. One can choose to be constructive or destructive. I know which is better.



I understand the main theme, only I do not know if talking all over the internet with that presumptuous tone, is really helpful.

God, whoever that is: bless them


It is evident from your comments that it is difficult to please everyone. I don't think The Machine talks with a presumptuous tone at all.

His efforts - and those of many others - have resulted in many people reading the translations of the court documents. If it was for the Knox/Mellas family and their supporters, they would have hidden the evidence from the public eye.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
Yes, but whilst Popper's posts are of great value, he doesn't do the sort of work for Meredith The Machine does all over the web, or that Quennell does in running TJMK. Each serve their purpose and it's a good purpose. As a result, I think they deserve being cut some slack. I could sit here and publicly nitpick all my pet peeves about those that strive for Meredith, but what good does that do? I'd just look like a grumpy old whinger. If someone thinks they can do a better job, they should by all means start their own project for Meredith and if it has merit certainly others will jump on board. If they choose not to do that, they can at least refrain from standing on the sidelines and throwing rocks. One can choose to be constructive or destructive. I know which is better.



I know not what this involves; is Quennel in it froma callng or will he want to make money off of this?


Wouldn't that be a question best directed at him. We are not mind readers.

The only people who have accepted donations to my knowledge were Frank Sfarzo, Bruce Fischer and the defendants.

I find your comment almost offenssive. After so many years and all the effort that Peter Quennell, The Machine and others have put into countering the Amanda Knox PR campaign on a volunteer basis, what makes you think any of them would want to financially profit from this?

That is not something that springs to mind when thinking about TJMK.



In all the years they've worked for truth for Meredith they've not taken any money and on the contrary, have paid a lot of money out of their own pockets for the cause (at least, Peter Quennell certainly has). I don't see how or why that would suddenly change.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Did Amanda Knox drag Raffaele Sollecito down with her?
Jun 23, 2014 at 6:11 PM PDT
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http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... n-with-her
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

One mystery of the case that will probably never be solved is the numerous blood traces found in Sollecito and Guede's apartment. Sollecito's had his and Knox's DNA, and Guede, his own. You would expect that to be Meredith's blood, but from what was tested, apparently not.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:40 pm   Post subject: ANATOMY OF AN INVESTIGATION   

Hi, everyone, the recent imbroglio about Amanda Knox copying some of the translations from the Meredith Kercher Wiki was a sequence of events. Much of the fight was on Twitter, and yah, one I started :) but a lot of us saw the wrong of it, and really hammered the point. Special credit to Fortunata who did the side by side comparisons.

  • Knox grabs our Anna Donnino translation, but doesn't attribute to us.
  • I complain about it on .NET and Bruce who monitors it, talks to Amanda.
  • She substitutes it with the Julia Smith version.
  • I note the original has been dumbed down with simplified English, but obviously a copy.
  • Post that Amanda Knox first posted our translation without crediting us, then substituted with another to avoid attribution.
  • It gets picked up by others, with Fortunata, Sam Ui, Cate (who's a translator) Nell, Hannington Flair, harryrag all calling it theft.

The original translation clearly was by someone with a legal background trying to match the exact sense of what was testified to in court. I saw that in all the PMF translations, and what I noticed in Julia Smith's 'translation' was someone working not from the original Italian, but Catnip's translation. In other words, copying.

So we got @giufuliafa to admit she was Julia Smith. (Knox credits her as giufuliafa on another document) but when I challenge whether she translated from the original or used Catnip's translation as a template I got passive aggressive demands for 'proof' and disrespect for Catnip's translation. Ahem.

Some might consider it no big deal, or that translations are not original pieces of work, but, as we pointed out, it clearly was theft of someone else's work.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

They just don't learn!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I suspect there has been some interaction between Amanda Knox's PR team and Raffaele Sollecito's defence team, because Cristina Magnani has just announced on Twitter that Raffaele Sollecito and his lawyers will hold a press conference in Rome on the 1st of July to clarify his appeal.

I reckon his separation strategy did not sit well with Knox and he is going to do some damage control. Anything else would surprise me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks, Nell.

But, what we really need is Raffaele Sollecito himself to speak out and clarify his position on his alibi...was Amanda Knox with him all evening and night of 1 December 2007 or not...yes or no?

His lawyers can spin all they want, but he really needs to answer this question instead of hiding behind some fabled Naruto cartoon and sly comments by his family and cronies about how it might be Knox on the garage CCTV tape.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Thanks, Nell.

But, what we really need is Raffaele Sollecito himself to speak out and clarify his position on his alibi...was Amanda Knox with him all evening and night of 1 December or not...yes or no?

His lawyers can spin all they want, but he really needs to answer this question instead of hiding behind some fabled Naruto cartoon and sly comments by his family and cronies about how it might be Knox on the garage CCTV tape.


I do not know why Sollecito wants to give a press conference highlighting the problems with his current appeal. His lawyers are going to be present as well. I don't think I have ever heard of such an event before where a defendant in a murder trial gives a press conference to clarify his appeal. Isn't that unusual? Especially for someone who wasn't keen to speak in court and back up his alibi, like any normal person would do.

I don't expect surprises. He will be as vague as possible, something we have become used to over the years. Fact is, he cannot take back what he has already said publicly. His official version is that he cannot vouch for her because he is not sure if she went out that night, but he does not believe her to be a murderer.

That's not a good defence since his alibi depends on it too.

Let's see if they accept questions from the press at that conference. That could be interesting.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Thanks, Nell.

But, what we really need is Raffaele Sollecito himself to speak out and clarify his position on his alibi...was Amanda Knox with him all evening and night of 1 December or not...yes or no?

His lawyers can spin all they want, but he really needs to answer this question instead of hiding behind some fabled Naruto cartoon and sly comments by his family and cronies about how it might be Knox on the garage CCTV tape.


I do not know why Sollecito wants to give a press conference highlighting the problems with his current appeal. His lawyers are going to be present as well. I don't think I have ever heard of such an event before where a defendant in a murder trial gives a press conference to clarify his appeal. Isn't that unusual? Especially for someone who wasn't keen to speak in court and back up his alibi, like any normal person would do.

I don't expect surprises. He will be as vague as possible, something we have become used to over the years. Fact is, he cannot take back what he has already said publicly. His official version is that he cannot vouch for her because he is not sure if she went out that night, but he does not believe her to be a murderer.

That's not a good defence since his alibi depends on it too.

Let's see if they accept questions from the press at that conference. That could be interesting.


And aside from what I asked in my previous post, what exactly is it that they need to "clarify"? What they are trying to argue is already down in black and white in their appeal papers submitted to the High Court which we and the media can read for ourselves and they can't change that submission. No doubt, it will be the same old same old, whereby they state or imply something completely different to the public to what they are stating to the actual court. It is ironic that they define their press conference as being for the purpose of clarification when since day one, all they've done is attempt to muddy the waters.

I don't think there's any way they'll allow Sollecito to speak. I doubt he'll even be present. The whole purpose of this is to try and shield him from all the speculation and dress his position up in lawyer speak and spin. This is all about PR. It will also be about sending Knox's people a message, making some of the right noises (which won't actually mean anything). Damage control, as you say. The last thing they want is a public row between the two camps

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It's also completely pathetic of Sollecito to claim or imply that he isn't sure if she was there in his apartment with him all evening or not. It isn't like the place was a mansion with many rooms that the pair could rattle around in all evening without realising whether the other was there or not. It was a studio flat that had a single room as kitchen/living room/bedroom and one bathroom. Two rooms in total. How can he be in there and not know if he's alone or not?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
And aside from what I asked in my previous post, what exactly is it that they need to "clarify"? What they are trying to argue is already down in black and white in their appeal papers submitted to the High Court which we and the media can read for ourselves and they can't change that submission. No doubt, it will be the same old same old, whereby they state or imply something completely different to the public to what they are stating to the actual court. It is ironic that they define their press conference as being for the purpose of clarification when since day one, all they've done is attempt to muddy the waters.

I don't think there's any way they'll allow Sollecito to speak. I doubt he'll even be present. The whole purpose of this is to try and shield him from all the speculation and dress his position up in lawyer speak and spin. This is all about PR. It will also be about sending Knox's people a message, making some of the right noises (which won't actually mean anything). Damage control, as you say. The last thing they want is a public row between the two camps


Raffaele Sollecito will be present according to his own tweet. He says he gives a press conference together with his lawyer, so I understand that to mean he will be there.

Concerning the damage control, I believe it is too late for that. Sollecito has already said everything we needed to hear. At this point, he can and will not confirm Knox was with him all night. Her silence on her blog speaks also volumes.

Despite the latest controversy, Knox has not addressed any of this on her blog. Instead, she has posted pictures from Seattle's Summer Solstice parade she attended with Madison Paxton. One would think there are more important matters for her to discuss at the moment. She is trying a little bit too hard to ignore the latest developments that will affect her appeal directly.

Image

Cristina Magnani has been contacted on Twitter by Amanda Knox supporters who have implored her to consider Sollecito and Knox can separate defence strategies without him calling Amanda Knox a liar.

It all looks very desperate to me.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Raffaele Sollecito will be present according to his own tweet. He says he gives a press conference together with his lawyer, so I understand that to mean he will be there.


Well, you can be sure he'll say nothing of substance.


Nell wrote:
#Despite the latest controversy, Knox has not addressed any of this on her blog. Instead, she has posted pictures from Seattle's Summer Solstice parade she attended with Madison Paxton. One would think there are more important matters for her to discuss at the moment. She is trying a little bit too hard to ignore the latest developments that will affect her appeal directly.


Yeah, the silence is deafening. But then, she can't really speak "for" Sollecito can she. She has no choice but to stay quiet and might I say, her doing so is the first bit of wisdom I've seen her ever display. Maybe she's finally learning. Far too late though.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
--- snip ---

Yeah, the silence is deafening. But then, she can't really speak "for" Sollecito can she. She has no choice but to stay quiet and might I say, her doing so is the first bit of wisdom I've seen her ever display. Maybe she's finally learning. Far too late though.

--- snap ---


She's not learning. She is speechless.

I do not believe for a moment that Sollecito came up with the brilliant idea of a press conference all by himself. If he uses the press conference to reassure he is not openly saying Knox did it by herself, then you can be sure it is being held on her behest.

Amanda Knox's supporters are a good indication of what's going on behind the scenes. She is furious over his latest comments and separation defence strategy.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

LOL

If that is correct, then Sollecito and his people are suffering under the illusion that Knox actually has power over him. She doesn't. Sure, her thugs can harass him and his family online but that's it. The only way she can possibly hurt him in actuality is to confess to a role in the crime and declare that he was there too and is guilty along with her. But, she'll never confess in a million years. So, if they really are holding this press conference out of some sort of fear of her in order to placate her, then that fear is very much misplaced. She needs him (for her alibi), but he doesn't really need her.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I find it also strange that despite Sollecito's family repeatedly telling Knox's followers to leave them alone on Twitter, they can't seem to bring themselves to take the simple step of clicking on the block button and cutting them off forever. For all their complaining, they feel they need to keep the communication channels open.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
LOL

If that is correct, then Sollecito and his people are suffering under the illusion that Knox actually has power over him. She doesn't. Sure, her thugs can harass him and his family online but that's it. The only way she can possibly hurt him in actuality is to confess to a role in the crime and declare that he was there too and is guilty along with her. But, she'll never confess in a million years. So, if they really are holding this press conference out of some sort of fear of her in order to placate her, then that fear is very much misplaced. She needs him (for her alibi), but he doesn't really need her.


We will have to wait and see what it actually is he thinks needs adjusting or clarifying how he calls it.

If he is serious about his separation defence strategy then he needs to avoid at all cost to give Knox an alibi.

We are accustomed to be presented with different versions, the official version for the courts and a heavily embellished version for the court of public opinion, a version that is always subject to changes according to whatever the current situation requires.

Raffaele Sollecito came up in his book Honor Bound with an outlandish theory how he could vouch for Amanda's presence in his apartment even though he insists he cannot remember it:

Quote:
“I found some satisfaction in that, but also frustration, because I had at last worked out why Amanda did not leave—could not have left—my house on the night of the murder. She didn't have her own key, so if she'd gone out alone, she would have had to ring the doorbell and ask me to buzz her back in. Even if I'd been stoned or asleep when she rang, I would have remembered that. And it didn't happen.”


This is the closest Amanda Knox will ever get to an alibi from Raffaele Sollecito. It is one of these completely lame theories that are insulting to intelligence but Knox supporters praise it as irrefutable logic.

Publicly, Raffaele Sollecito will maintain he still stands by her, even when he effectively undermines her position in court. The purpose of the press conference is probably to dilute the fact that he just stabbed her in the back and to give the people something else to talk about then to fixate on his separation defence strategy.


On a different note, just before the above quoted paragraph from his book, Sollecito confirms in Honor Bound that he refused to testify - something he keeps denying for some reason on Twitter and in every interview whenever he gets the chance:

Quote:
“I was now quite sure the authorities were keeping me in solitary confinement to get me to testify against Amanda, if not also against myself. Since I had no such testimony to offer, I did the Italian equivalent of taking the Fifth: I availed myself, as we say, of the right not to respond.



This must be the most expensive and most worthless PR campaign we had the chance to see go down in flames.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
One mystery of the case that will probably never be solved is the numerous blood traces found in Sollecito and Guede's apartment. Sollecito's had his and Knox's DNA, and Guede, his own. You would expect that to be Meredith's blood, but from what was tested, apparently not.

I don't know about Guede, but I think the traces in Sollecito's apartment are no mystery if you consider Knox's blood was found in his underwear. No further comment :mrgreen:


Last edited by max on Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
It's also completely pathetic of Sollecito to claim or imply that he isn't sure if she was there in his apartment with him all evening or not. It isn't like the place was a mansion with many rooms that the pair could rattle around in all evening without realising whether the other was there or not. It was a studio flat that had a single room as kitchen/living room/bedroom and one bathroom. Two rooms in total. How can he be in there and not know if he's alone or not?

But he was sure. She was out from 9pm till 1am. He signed a statement after all. He just didn't say that he was with her, but I think the timings might be right. Nencini mentions the 4 seconds of computer activity at 00:58 which could well have happened just after they got back from the murder. IMO.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
--- snip ---

If that is correct, then Sollecito and his people are suffering under the illusion that Knox actually has power over him.

--- snap ---


It would be interesting to know whose idea it was to have a press conference? The correct answer would give some clues as to what the motivation is.

There are a few options: a) on Knox's behest, b) on Sollecito's lawyers behest, c) on Raffaele Sollecito's behest.

I think we can exclude option 'b'. That leaves us with 'a' and 'c'.

It is safe to say that Amanda Knox and her supporters were not pleased with his decision to separate defences. His family has come forward publicly pointing the finger at Knox and they have also accused Knox and her supporters to not care about Sollecito. It is safe to say they are also to blame that the CCTV footage resurfaced after all these years.

Bruce Fischer's forum members seemed deflated after the appeals were filed and Sollecito's new defence strategy became known. So it's safe to say he and Amanda Knox are not in agreement anymore what is best for both of them.

I don't see no reason why Sollecito would need to repeat everything he has already said in interviews and in his appeal. It seems odd to me.

I will wait for Tuesday and see what happens. I am interested to know if Giulia Bongiorno is going to be there. I cannot imagine her holding a press conference about this matter.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Retrograde planet Mercury turns direct that day, a great day for 'clarity' though I am not sure I expect 'surprises' :)

You have to understand RS though. What to him is clarity might seem like fog, to the rest of us.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Retrograde planet Mercury turns direct that day, a great day for 'clarity' though I am not sure I expect 'surprises' :)

You have to understand RS though. What to him is clarity might seem like fog, to the rest of us.


Ha ha. That's funny.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:18 am   Post subject: RE: BLOOD TRACES   

Hi, max: Patrizia Stefanoni's testimony at the Massei Court

Quote:
Sollecito:Let’s turn now to the crime-scene inspection carried out in the apartment used by Sollecito Raffaele. The crime-scene inspection, I remind you, was carried out on the date of 13 November. There were various samplings carried out in various areas. There is not much of relevance, apart from the profile, shall we say, of Sollecito Raffaele, except the mix that was obtained in a sampling carried out on a pair of gloves, in fuchsia-coloured rubber. One of these samplings … that is, both the samplings gave as a result a mix, Sollecito plus Knox, but it is not of haematic substance. And the same also for the exhibits/pieces of evidence found and the samplings carried out on these from the little sponge, from a drainpipe under [86] the kitchen sink. The little sponge gave as a positive result to the genetic test the profile of Sollecito, but it is not haematic substance. The bedroom, this part of the results comes from highlighting/revealing with Luminol. So Luminol was carried out on the external door handle, two samplings on the flooring. The genetic profile of Sollecito plus Knox was found, even if this mix is a bit partial: a few alleles are missing from Sollecito Raffaele. There’s the highlighting with Luminol carried out in the bathroom. All the results for samplings 97, 98, 99 and 100 are negative. [Sample] 95 is presumed haematic substance, naturally, since we are dealing with Luminol. The genetic result is Sollecito plus Knox, while a sampling also on the flooring of the bathroom gave as a result the profile of Knox.


Quote:
Guede: Finally, I think this is the last crime-scene inspection, there's the technical crime-scene inspection carried out on 20 November 2007 in the studio apartment used by Guede Rudy Hermann. There are various exhibits/pieces of evidence: towels, washing-machine filter, trousers, tickets. All gave either haematic substance or the genetic profile of Guede, as in the case of 148, 149, or else positive for the genetic test but negative for haematic substance, so the genetic profile of Guede, as also [is the case for] the ticket, however in this case the haematic substance is positive. Further piliferous structure were sampled from various parts of the apartment: all negative. All negative, also, the samplings carried out in the bathroom, of the fragments of an anorak laid on the bed, the tile grouting [90] of the kitchen flooring. There was also a presumed haematic substance revealed on the intercom/doorphone attached to the wall: all negative. There was also a Luminol test carried out here on the flooring and under the [bathroom] sink/washbasin. There's a presumed haematic substance that in fact gave as genetic profile that of Guede. There are personal effects that were acquired by the Perugia Flying Squad in a backpack that he had with him when he was arrested in Germany, so there's a pullover, a pair of trousers, in short, also here nothing of particular relevance except that on a few samples carried out the genetic profile is precisely that of the owner. So a pair of trousers, a pullover, a towel and a little brush/toothbrush, are in fact all exhibits/pieces of evidence that gave Guede as a profile.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Here's where it gets interesting: Guede's apartment

  • Rep. 148A/B/C/D were samples from a towel in Guede's bathroom. They tested positive for blood and matched Guede's DNA.
  • Rep 149 was from a plastic filter in the drain of the basin. It tested positive for blood and matched Guede's DNA.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Here's where it gets interesting: Guede's apartment

  • Rep. 148A/B/C/D were samples from a towel in Guede's bathroom. They tested positive for blood and matched Guede's DNA.
  • Rep 149 was from a plastic filter in the drain of the basin. It tested positive for blood and matched Guede's DNA.


Maybe the cut on his hand was from the night of the murder then, why else would there be his blood in the apartment?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
Michael wrote:
It's also completely pathetic of Sollecito to claim or imply that he isn't sure if she was there in his apartment with him all evening or not. It isn't like the place was a mansion with many rooms that the pair could rattle around in all evening without realising whether the other was there or not. It was a studio flat that had a single room as kitchen/living room/bedroom and one bathroom. Two rooms in total. How can he be in there and not know if he's alone or not?

But he was sure. She was out from 9pm till 1am. He signed a statement after all. He just didn't say that he was with her, but I think the timings might be right. Nencini mentions the 4 seconds of computer activity at 00:58 which could well have happened just after they got back from the murder. IMO.


His book Honor Bound says she didn't have a key so would have had to ring herself in, hardly sworn testimony.

Nencini mentioned the computer activity at 9:10 too while noting it gave enough time for RS to get to the basketball court where Curatolo saw him. I don't think he agrees with human interaction, just considers the possibility, one eye on the Supremes. Cagey, but effective defense, I thought.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:38 am   Post subject: Re: RE: BLOOD TRACES   


Thanks Ergon. Bedroom and bathroom. It is all Knox's menstruation blood if you ask me. That is what you get when you are sexually active while on your period. More interesting IMO is Guede's blood. This could indeed mean he had a cut on his hand after all (despite none of his friends noticing it), and that would only make it more obvious that he never did any cleaning in the small bathroom at the cottage.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

On IIP/IA they get their hopes high because some think the conviction of Al-Jazeera reporters in Egypt and Secretary of State's public declarations could be relevant to Knox's extradition battle.

Image

I beg to differ. Not only have Italy and the U.S. a bilateral extradition agreement, also, murder is a punishable crime in the U.S. too. The crime the Al-Jazeera reporters stand accused of is called reporting in the U.S., Canada and Australia and is not punishable by law.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

GOOGLE TRANSLATION:


Image


Press conference of lawyers and Sollecito to illustrate the appeal to Cassation

The meeting will be held in Rome next Tuesday. Present Raffaele and lawyers

Article | Wed, 06/25/2014 - 10:42



Raffaele Sollecito and his lawyers will hold a press conference next Tuesday in Rome to illustrate the appeal to the Supreme Court against conviction for the murder of Meredith Kercher in the appeal bis celebrated in Florence.

There will be the same Sollecito with his defenders, lawyers Giulia Bongiorno and Luca Maori.

The meeting is scheduled at 10.30 am at the Cavour Convention Center.

With the appeal already filed Sollecito's lawyers seek the annulment of the sentence. The young man has in fact always proclaimed himself alien to the murder of the British student, in Perugia on the night of 1 November 2007.


GIORNALE DELL UMBRIA


According to this, Bongiorno will be present for it. That tells me that she's the architect of this little stunt.

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Maybe she loves the limelight. I remember she once tweeted that she would also like to be an actress ;)
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
And aside from what I asked in my previous post, what exactly is it that they need to "clarify"? What they are trying to argue is already down in black and white in their appeal papers submitted to the High Court which we and the media can read for ourselves and they can't change that submission. No doubt, it will be the same old same old, whereby they state or imply something completely different to the public to what they are stating to the actual court. It is ironic that they define their press conference as being for the purpose of clarification when since day one, all they've done is attempt to muddy the waters.

I don't think there's any way they'll allow Sollecito to speak. I doubt he'll even be present. The whole purpose of this is to try and shield him from all the speculation and dress his position up in lawyer speak and spin. This is all about PR. It will also be about sending Knox's people a message, making some of the right noises (which won't actually mean anything). Damage control, as you say. The last thing they want is a public row between the two camps


Raffaele Sollecito will be present according to his own tweet. He says he gives a press conference together with his lawyer, so I understand that to mean he will be there.

Concerning the damage control, I believe it is too late for that. Sollecito has already said everything we needed to hear. At this point, he can and will not confirm Knox was with him all night. Her silence on her blog speaks also volumes.

Despite the latest controversy, Knox has not addressed any of this on her blog. Instead, she has posted pictures from Seattle's Summer Solstice parade she attended with Madison Paxton. One would think there are more important matters for her to discuss at the moment. She is trying a little bit too hard to ignore the latest developments that will affect her appeal directly.

Image

Cristina Magnani has been contacted on Twitter by Amanda Knox supporters who have implored her to consider Sollecito and Knox can separate defence strategies without him calling Amanda Knox a liar.

It all looks very desperate to me.


I am not at all convinced by the foreground shadows. Compare with the figures in the distance and the alignment of their shadows. Also the foreground falls away. There is no way the foreground shadows would be as straight as they are.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Maybe she loves the limelight. I remember she once tweeted that she would also like to be an actress ;)


No, I think its more then that. I don't see Bongiorno organising pressers for no other reason then exposure, after all, she has many other far more legitimate ways of getting them. She's trying to play a strategy here, she has some sort of game plan. This is a woman who hates to lose.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
GOOGLE TRANSLATION:


Image


Press conference of lawyers and Sollecito to illustrate the appeal to Cassation

The meeting will be held in Rome next Tuesday. Present Raffaele and lawyers

Article | Wed, 06/25/2014 - 10:42



Raffaele Sollecito and his lawyers will hold a press conference next Tuesday in Rome to illustrate the appeal to the Supreme Court against conviction for the murder of Meredith Kercher in the appeal bis celebrated in Florence.

There will be the same Sollecito with his defenders, lawyers Giulia Bongiorno and Luca Maori.

The meeting is scheduled at 10.30 am at the Cavour Convention Center.

With the appeal already filed Sollecito's lawyers seek the annulment of the sentence. The young man has in fact always proclaimed himself alien to the murder of the British student, in Perugia on the night of 1 November 2007.


GIORNALE DELL UMBRIA


According to this, Bongiorno will be present for it. That tells me that she's the architect of this little stunt.


I find it quite interesting that Giulia Bongiorno will be part of this. It surprises me. It makes me wonder what the message will be. Giulia Bongiorno was the first one to come up in court with the suggestion Sollecito was only guilty by his association with Amanda Knox. It was the first step towards a separation defence strategy.

The separation strategy is also an admission by Sollecito & his legal defence team that the evidence against Amanda Knox is considerable, otherwise none of this would be necessary.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
I find it quite interesting that Giulia Bongiorno will be part of this. It surprises me.


It surprises me too. It tells me that Bongiorno is desperate. She knows the writing is on the wall. It's the last gasp before the death rattle.


Nell wrote:
The separation strategy is also an admission by Sollecito & his legal defence team that the evidence against Amanda Knox is considerable, otherwise none of this would be necessary.


Yes, that is certainly the clear implication.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jape wrote:
Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
And aside from what I asked in my previous post, what exactly is it that they need to "clarify"? What they are trying to argue is already down in black and white in their appeal papers submitted to the High Court which we and the media can read for ourselves and they can't change that submission. No doubt, it will be the same old same old, whereby they state or imply something completely different to the public to what they are stating to the actual court. It is ironic that they define their press conference as being for the purpose of clarification when since day one, all they've done is attempt to muddy the waters.

I don't think there's any way they'll allow Sollecito to speak. I doubt he'll even be present. The whole purpose of this is to try and shield him from all the speculation and dress his position up in lawyer speak and spin. This is all about PR. It will also be about sending Knox's people a message, making some of the right noises (which won't actually mean anything). Damage control, as you say. The last thing they want is a public row between the two camps


Raffaele Sollecito will be present according to his own tweet. He says he gives a press conference together with his lawyer, so I understand that to mean he will be there.

Concerning the damage control, I believe it is too late for that. Sollecito has already said everything we needed to hear. At this point, he can and will not confirm Knox was with him all night. Her silence on her blog speaks also volumes.

Despite the latest controversy, Knox has not addressed any of this on her blog. Instead, she has posted pictures from Seattle's Summer Solstice parade she attended with Madison Paxton. One would think there are more important matters for her to discuss at the moment. She is trying a little bit too hard to ignore the latest developments that will affect her appeal directly.

Image

Cristina Magnani has been contacted on Twitter by Amanda Knox supporters who have implored her to consider Sollecito and Knox can separate defence strategies without him calling Amanda Knox a liar.

It all looks very desperate to me.


I am not at all convinced by the foreground shadows. Compare with the figures in the distance and the alignment of their shadows. Also the foreground falls away. There is no way the foreground shadows would be as straight as they are.


I am not sure what it is you are trying to tell us, that the photos are not authentic?

That is not of importance.

What is noteworthy is that she is writing about trivial and irrelevant stuff instead of addressing the latest developments of her criminal case. There has been no update from her since the publication of judge Nencini's motivations report. Before Raffaele Sollecito announced his separation strategy, she has commented on almost everything he's done. Now that he has raised important issues that will directly affect her appeal, she remains silent. It's odd.

Raffaele Sollecito's tweet about his press conference has received 3 favourites and 7 retweets. Amanda Knox did neither favourite nor retweet it. In fact, she has not favourited any of his tweets in months.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
I find it quite interesting that Giulia Bongiorno will be part of this. It surprises me.


It surprises me too. It tells me that Bongiorno is desperate. She knows the writing is on the wall. It's the last gasp before the death rattle.


Now that Bongiorno is on board I suspect it might not be quite as I imagined. Maybe the message will not be as comforting for Knox as I assumed.

Fact is, the separation strategy will only work for him if he creates doubt she was with him all night.

Maybe they will focus mostly on the evidence to deflect the public's interest from the separate defence. I cannot imagine they will respond to any questions.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
GOOGLE TRANSLATION:


Image


Press conference of lawyers and Sollecito to illustrate the appeal to Cassation

The meeting will be held in Rome next Tuesday. Present Raffaele and lawyers

Article | Wed, 06/25/2014 - 10:42



Raffaele Sollecito and his lawyers will hold a press conference next Tuesday in Rome to illustrate the appeal to the Supreme Court against conviction for the murder of Meredith Kercher in the appeal bis celebrated in Florence.

There will be the same Sollecito with his defenders, lawyers Giulia Bongiorno and Luca Maori.

The meeting is scheduled at 10.30 am at the Cavour Convention Center.

With the appeal already filed Sollecito's lawyers seek the annulment of the sentence. The young man has in fact always proclaimed himself alien to the murder of the British student, in Perugia on the night of 1 November 2007.


GIORNALE DELL UMBRIA


According to this, Bongiorno will be present for it. That tells me that she's the architect of this little stunt.


I am astounded by this latest news. What is the purpose of this press-conference? Yes, it's clear that it's some kind of publicity stunt, but what are they (Sol's lawyers) are trying to achieve? Who will be present at the presser? Journalists, Supreme Court judges? I doubt the latter have had an opportunity to read a single word of the Sollecito appeal doc since its submission 10 days ago. Besides, it's a pretty risky step, trying to influence the SC judges ahead of their decision, isn't it?

Just a reminder that the Supreme Court is situated in Piazza Cavour, so the Cavour Convention Center must be nearby, or could even be inside the Palace of Justice.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
I find it quite interesting that Giulia Bongiorno will be part of this. It surprises me.


It surprises me too. It tells me that Bongiorno is desperate. She knows the writing is on the wall. It's the last gasp before the death rattle.


Now that Bongiorno is on board I suspect it might not be quite as I imagined. Maybe the message will not be as comforting for Knox as I assumed.

Fact is, the separation strategy will only work for him if he creates doubt she was with him all night.

Maybe they will focus mostly on the evidence to deflect the public's interest from the separate defence. I cannot imagine they will respond to any questions.



Yes, but as I've already said, to do that he needs to be completely clear: "Amanda was not with me that evening, she left my apartment and I spent the evening alone!". But, he's refusing to do that, instead trying to imply she wasn't there via innuendo and expecting the court to favourably draw that conclusion for him on his behalf. What he is doing, in my opinion, is very similar to Knox's jail cell memorial where she said it seemed real to her that Patrick was there but it was like a dream, or whatever. To say, in effect "The only thing that I know for sure was in my apartment with me that evening was my computer!" isn't going to cut it. That's a stupid game to be playing, especially so late in the day.

Since Knox and her followers aren't championing this presser, I think you are right and it may not be to their advantage. It is looking like it will either be a) detrimental to Knox's case or b) it may simply be neutral, but Knox and her people are being kept out of the loop entirely as to what exactly it's all about, leaving them to expect the worst.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Guermantes wrote:
I am astounded by this latest news. What is the purpose of that press-conference? Yes, it's clear that it's some kind of publicity stunt, but what are they (Sol's lawyers) are trying to achieve? Who will be present at the presser? Journalists, Supreme Court judges? I doubt the latter have had an opportunity to read a single word of the Sollecito appeal doc since its submission 10 days ago. Besides, it's a pretty risky step, trying to influence the SC judges ahead of their decision, isn't it?

Just a reminder that the Supreme Court is situated in Piazza Cavour, so the Cavour Convention Center must be nearby, or could even be inside the Palace of Justice.



I've no idea what they hope to achieve by it. Perhaps, they mean it as a large ditch call to whatever supporters they think he may still have out there to rally around his flag. Although, what good that would do I've no idea.

Although, here's a clue. They tend to use publicity stunts like these (or publishing crap in Oggi, for example) to "convey messages" to the courts that they don't actually want to offer as evidence/arguments whilst actually in court. They are their attempts to "subvert" the court, for want of a better word, by attempting to insert ideas into their consciousness.

ETA: That, and to garner media and public sympathy.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Just checked: the Cavour Convention Center is located in

via Cavour 50/a
00184 Rome, Italy

https://www.facebook.com/Centro.Congressi.Cavour/info

not in Piazza Cavour, or its immediate area?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Probably a/the road that leads to Piazza Cavour.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thought for the day. The fact Bongiorno and Co feel they need to "clarify" their position, makes it self evident that they've not been very clear on what their position is in the first place. And bad news for them, that unclear position is the position they've made to the court in their appeal. And that position is not unclear due to legalise or complex technical points or because it's been misrepresented by the media, but simply because it is in fact, unclear, or rather...wishy-washy.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Judging by the map, it's not a short hike from the Palace of Justice to the Convention Center, so I doubt any Supreme Court judge will be present or will get their message:

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Distance betweeb Piazza Cavour and Via Cavour 3.2 km.JPG


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Guermantes wrote:
Judging by the map, it's not a short hike from the Palace of Justice to the Convention Center, so I doubt any Supreme Court judge will be present or will get their message:



I don't think they expect or hope any High Court judges will actually be present, rather they hope that they (and those in their inner circles) will simply read/watch the media reports from the presser, accidentally or not, and "get the message" that way, whatever that might be.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
They tend to use publicity stunts like these (or publishing crap in Oggi, for example) to "convey messages" to the courts that they don't actually want to offer as evidence/arguments whilst actually in court. They are their attempts to "subvert" the court, for want of a better word, by attempting to insert ideas into their consciousness.


Michael wrote:
I don't think they expect or hope any High Court judges will actually be present, rather they hope that they (and those in their inner circles) will simply read/watch the media reports from the presser, accidentally or not, and "get the message" that way, whatever that might be.


Yes, something like that might be the case. That's what they are hoping for, planning for, .... a cunning, scheming bunch. Desperate, too.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Ava wrote:
Maybe she loves the limelight. I remember she once tweeted that she would also like to be an actress ;)


No, I think its more then that. I don't see Bongiorno organising pressers for no other reason then exposure, after all, she has many other far more legitimate ways of getting them. She's trying to play a strategy here, she has some sort of game plan. This is a woman who hates to lose.



Of course not. To hold a press conference just seems like a rather dramatic way to realize her strategy whatever it might be (not so hard to figure out, perhaps). Afaik it doesn't happen very often that attorneys go public in such an aggressive manner during the trial/appeals process, and I don't know if it's very clever either.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Michael wrote:
Ava wrote:
Maybe she loves the limelight. I remember she once tweeted that she would also like to be an actress ;)


No, I think its more then that. I don't see Bongiorno organising pressers for no other reason then exposure, after all, she has many other far more legitimate ways of getting them. She's trying to play a strategy here, she has some sort of game plan. This is a woman who hates to lose.



Of course not. To hold a press conference just seems like a rather dramatic way to realize her strategy whatever it might be (not so hard to figure out, perhaps). Afaik it doesn't happen very often that attorneys go public in such an aggressive manner during the trial/appeals process, and I don't know if it's very clever either.


Like I said, Bongiorno knows that with how things currently stand she's going to lose and she hates to lose...especially such a high profile case as this one. This case has given her lots of media exposure, so she feels she needs that exposure to be associated with the right outcome...winning, for if she loses she knows she'll do so very publicly. So, extreme measures are required. It isn't clever, it's simply desperate, she knows she has nothing to lose and as for Sollecito, he knows exactly where he's going and will latch on to any hope, no matter how faint.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Okay, it appears as though there's a major PR push by the Sollecito Camp going on. They are on Italian TV tonight and it seems to be all about Raffaele, no mention of Amanda.

Since Bongiorno is heading the presser next week, it's clearly her that's behind the Sollecito PR storm that seems to be in progress. It looks that way to me, anyway. We'll have wait and see whether this will be good or bad news for Knox.

One thing's for sure, now that Knox and her PR people appear to be no longer in full control of play, things have gotten rather more interesting.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
I find it quite interesting that Giulia Bongiorno will be part of this. It surprises me.


It surprises me too. It tells me that Bongiorno is desperate. She knows the writing is on the wall. It's the last gasp before the death rattle.


Now that Bongiorno is on board I suspect it might not be quite as I imagined. Maybe the message will not be as comforting for Knox as I assumed.

Fact is, the separation strategy will only work for him if he creates doubt she was with him all night.

Maybe they will focus mostly on the evidence to deflect the public's interest from the separate defence. I cannot imagine they will respond to any questions.



Yes, but as I've already said, to do that he needs to be completely clear: "Amanda was not with me that evening, she left my apartment and I spent the evening alone!". But, he's refusing to do that, instead trying to imply she wasn't there via innuendo and expecting the court to favourably draw that conclusion for him on his behalf. What he is doing, in my opinion, is very similar to Knox's jail cell memorial where she said it seemed real to her that Patrick was there but it was like a dream, or whatever. To say, in effect "The only thing that I know for sure was in my apartment with me that evening was my computer!" isn't going to cut it. That's a stupid game to be playing, especially so late in the day.

Since Knox and her followers aren't championing this presser, I think you are right and it may not be to their advantage. It is looking like it will either be a) detrimental to Knox's case or b) it may simply be neutral, but Knox and her people are being kept out of the loop entirely as to what exactly it's all about, leaving them to expect the worst.


Nothing he is going to say will make a difference in court. The only question is how far will he go and how much will it rattle Knox's cage.

Even though there is a lot of uncertainty what the purpose of this press conference will be, I can tell you what is not going to happen and that is Sollecito confirming Knox's alibi. If he does not come forward repeating his statements made in court that she went out alone, then at least he will leave a doubt that she could have been at the cottage without him.

Knox not addressing this whole debacle makes the friction between the two camps even more evident. I visited her blog yesterday and noticed that since I posted my screenshot from her website, there have been 37 new comments. I read through all 55 comments, all written after Sollecito's separation defence strategy became known, and not one has addressed it, neither has she.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So, there has been some discussion about Sollecito's DNA on the bra clasp on Chi l'ha visto? tonight.

Here's a preview of tonight's episode:

A "Chi l'ha visto?": "I ​​will defend myself" says Bossetti. Will we ever know the truth about Yara?

While Massimo Giuseppe Bossetti from prison is proclaiming his innocence and announcing a legal battle to prove it, in tonight's episode, "Chi l'ha visto?" gives an overview of the latest developments in the investigation into the murder of Yara Gambirasio. Investigators believe they have given a name and a face to "Unknown 1", the identikit of the killer's gene. But can the arrest of a 44-year-old man, mason, father of three children, put an end to three and a half years of investigations and mysteries? Are we close to the truth? Will we know how, why and by whose hand Yara died? Was the alleged "monster" acting alone or was there an accomplice? The audience of the program is encouraged to collaborate with new details and unpublished documents of a Giallo that still has many obscure points.

Tonight at 21:05 on Rai3


CHI L'HA VISTO

Sollecito's name isn't mentioned, but if you look on Twitter, you'll find some bits of info there. Looks like they have come up with a new source of contamination of the bra clasp - Amanda's lamp! (LOL)

Here are the tweets:

Quote:
# Meredith #chilhavitsto images of Amanda Knox's lamp that could have contaminated the bra clasp with Sollecito's DNA


Quote:
Geneticist Baldi: 'Low level Sollecito DNA on bra clasp # Meredith, the highest of the Unknown #1 on Yara's slip'


https://twitter.com/chilhavistorai3

So, the so-called new "experts" are now saying that Sollecito's DNA on the bra clasp is LCN DNA, too? Just like Meredith's on the blade of the knife found in his apartment? The current efforts to lie and muddy the waters are nothing new; dirty tactics of Sollecito's defense team is what we have come to expect from years of misinformation and have gotten used to. It seems to me there might a connection between Giulia Bongiorno's interview that she gave about the Yara Gambirasio murder case just a few days ago and tonight's broadcast.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Skimming through the Sollecito appeal I see he claims the particular Y haplotype found on Meredith's bra clasp is statistically less likely to be found in West European populations. (There's a chart, even :)

Of course, as a fan of history I know Southern Italians have an er, interesting mixture of genes.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Guermantes wrote:
It seems to me there might a connection between Giulia Bongiorno's interview that she gave about the Yara Gambirasio murder case just a few days ago and tonight's broadcast.



I think you nailed it right there, Guermantes. When it's put together, it's quite clear who the culprit is.


Guermantes wrote:
Sollecito's name isn't mentioned, but if you look on Twitter, you'll find some bits of info there. Looks like they have come up with a new source of contamination of the bra clasp - Amanda's lamp! (LOL)


Funny, but there's no mention of DNA transfer via lamps in the Sollecito appeal docs. The very suggestion is just another of their stunts cooked up to try and impress the public.


But then, being the most expensive lawyer in the country, Bongiorno has to look to her client like she's at least partly earning her extortionate fees.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

And we do need to be clear about something. The High Court is not there to assess the merits of pieces of evidence, merely the logic and legal rules applied when dealing with it. In order to get the High Court to consider new evidence and decide it warrants the case being sent back to a lower court, it must indeed be NEW tangible and specific exculpatory evidence, evidence that brings the whole case into question, not simply new arguments invented to try and explain away evidence already examined.

It is also dishonest of the defence to try and present the case against their client as being built on one piece of evidence, such as the bra clasp. Sollecito was not convicted on the basis of the bra clasp, but on a whole range of evidence taken as a whole. The case does not stand or fall on one piece of evidence alone, even if that piece of evidence may be considered particularly damning. The case against each of the accused is a wall made up of many bricks, not an arch supported by one keystone.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Selene Nelson has written an excellent article about the case for The Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/selene- ... _hp_ref=tw

Please tweet and retweet. Thanks.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Please "like", share, and comment on Selene Nelson's article Why Feminists Owe Amanda Knox Nothing

via social media thanks. It's on the UK edition of Huffington Post but might get picked up by the US as well. A great antidote to the Lisa Marie Basile article.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox fan on IIP's response to Selene Nelson's article: Source

"Hit this one hard, repeatedly".

They are all, sadly, tone deaf.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Machine wrote:
Selene Nelson has written an excellent article about the case for The Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/selene- ... _hp_ref=tw

Please tweet and retweet. Thanks.


Yeah, you're right, TM, that's a really really good article by an excellent writer. Her words sum up my thoughts exactly:

Quote:
Aside from the inaccuracies throughout, what grates most about Basile's piece is the title, the suggestion that feminists have failed Knox. What total short-sightedness; what utter blindness to the sensitivities of this case. Feminists owe Knox nothing and to suggest we do is ignorant and insulting. She had a hard time in the press, yes, but frankly it's not the point. I too have been angered by what the media too often chooses to focus on, but for entirely opposing reasoning: it allows her supporters to deflect the actual issue. It allows them to gloss over the unequivocally incriminating evidence that Amanda Knox either murdered Meredith Kercher herself or, at the very least, played a devastating part.

Her "Foxy Knoxy" status is an irrelevance. No one has "failed" her. She has failed herself, and she fails the Kercher family each and every day she protests her innocence. There is only one female victim here - Meredith Kercher - and how dare Basile allow Knox's PR spin, and her own wilful ignorance, to conceal that.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox case ignites battle of the feminists
Jun 27, 2014 at 2:35 AM PDT
By Chelsea Hoffman
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... -feminists
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Now it's official - Sollecito is no longer supporting Knox's alibi. Will he announce it at a press conference in Rome? ;)

June 27, 2014

Meredith, Sollecito ready to change version: Amanda left without an alibi

According to the weekly magazine "Gente", the young man from Puglia would be ready to declare not to remember exactly what happened that night

Sollecito: young but having problems with memory.... ;)


Raffaele Sollecito would be ready to change his version of what happened in Perugia on the night seven years ago when British student Meredith Kercher was killed. Contrary to what he has always said, that that night he was at home with his then-girlfriend Amanda Knox, Sollecito now "admits to not remembering clearly what happened." This was revealed by the weekly magazine "Gente" ("People").

For the weekly [magazine], "the American would thus be left alone for the first time to affirm her alibi" and "this sensational breakthrough would explain the line of defense of Raffaele who, in the appeal to the Supreme Court, whose decision is expected in the fall, calls for an acquittal or, in the alternative, changing the classification of the offense from conspiring to murder to only aiding and abetting."

"People" report that they have learned from confidential sources close to the young man from Puglia, that "Sollecito had always supported Amanda due to strong sentiment that had bound them before the murder and that he thought would never be broken." "To breaking the spell - the source adds - that is, this psychological subjection towards the beautiful Seattle girl, also contributed Greta Menegaldo, the new girlfriend of Raffaele."


TGCOM24

Wanna guess who Gente's source is? My bet is on Aunt Sara.

P.S. Wrong guess, his lawyers were identified as "confidential sources":

Meredith, Sollecito dumps Amanda.
Lawyers: "From now on, he thinks only of himself"


LEGGO
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Re-post from .org:

Post by piktor » 27 Jun 2014, 16:16
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewto ... 51#p169951
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Switzerland news:

The magazine 'Gente' says they learned the above from confidential sources close to the young man.

Sollecito lawyer: "Weighing this on his own" - "Raffaele version does not change, but thinks only of himself and his position, and the only absolute certainty is that he was at his house that night." These statements released to Adnkronos by the lawyer Luca Maori, Sollecito's defense along with Giulia Bongiorno.


http://www.tio.ch/News/Estero/798151/So ... ca-Amanda/

"SOLLECITO DEFENSE: "Raffaele version does not change, but thinks only of himself and his position, and the only absolute certainty is that he was at his house that night." This was said to Adnkronos by lawyer Luca Maori, who along with Giulia Bongiorno defended Raffaele Sollecito. The rumors that they would like the young man from Puglia 'separate' himself from Amanda's alibi the night of the murder of Meredith Kercher, will most likely be clarified by Raffaele himself in a press conference, Tuesday morning in Rome at 10.30 at the Cavour convention center…"


http://www.corriereadriatico.it/ATTUALI ... 8499.shtml
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Post by piktor » 27 Jun 2014, 17:39
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewto ... 59#p169959
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Latest and naughtiest:

Seven years later Sollecito changes version? "Ready to dump Amanda"

''...changing the classification of the offense from conspiring in murder, instead to aiding and abetting. " Aiding because Sollecito may have helped Amanda clean the house after the crime or in the fake robbery.“


http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/caso ... sione.html
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

NOW he wants to plea bargain? http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/caso ... sione.html Not even that he aided in the clean up, but maybe, since he 'can't remember'?

Too late, too bad. As far as I am concerned, he tortured Meredith with his pocket knife, and so did Knox, which is how both their DNA got there.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Il Mattino reports this news as well.

It does not look good for Amanda Knox. Deafening silence from her and her supporters regarding this new development.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Post by piktor » 27 Jun 2014, 17:39
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewto ... 59#p169959
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Latest and naughtiest:

Seven years later Sollecito changes version? "Ready to dump Amanda"

''...changing the classification of the offense from conspiring in murder, instead to aiding and abetting. " Aiding because Sollecito may have helped Amanda clean the house after the crime or in the fake robbery.“


http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/caso ... sione.html


I am interested to see if he is willing to say that publicly. Then we have two perps who place themselves voluntarily at the crime scene. That could be interesting.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Raffaele Sollecito may be trying an end run through the media. He aided in the clean up, but did not actually murder Meredith Kercher? He can’t remember whether Knox went out that evening?

Discounting the DNA evidence, the foot print, the kitchen knife from his flat, Curatolo’s testimony, he still should have made this plea at the Florence Court. Judge Nencini already concluded he wielded the second knife, and I don’t think the Supreme Court will look kindly at his too late desperate antics.

It looks like they’re asking for, but it’s very doubtful that they’ll send his case back for reconsideration to the Appeals court, or he’ll even get a reduced sentence.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Courtesy of Kristeva at dot Org, here's Amanda Knox's Dec. 17, 2007 interrogation transcript (Italian)

She got it from Cristina Magnani, Raffaele Sollecito's cousin :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Raffaele Sollecito may be trying an end run through the media. He aided in the clean up, but did not actually murder Meredith Kercher? He can’t remember whether Knox went out that evening?

Discounting the DNA evidence, the foot print, the kitchen knife from his flat, Curatolo’s testimony, he still should have made this plea at the Florence Court. Judge Nencini already concluded he wielded the second knife, and I don’t think the Supreme Court will look kindly at his too late desperate antics.

It looks like they’re asking for, but it’s very doubtful that they’ll send his case back for reconsideration to the Appeals court, or he’ll even get a reduced sentence.


It is too late in my opinion and I doubt it is true that he only helped in the clean up. It would be different if Knox and Guede would confirm it's true, but it's safe to say they will not do that.

Guede already said there was an Italian man armed with a knife at the scene, I doubt he will retract that.

I find it hard to believe that a man innocent of murder would defend murder charges and sit quietly 4 years in prison. In that case Giulia Bongiorno would not have waited to the last minute to separate defences. It is a desperate move in my opinion.

I must say I am surprised by this turn of events, because not only will it not help Sollecito's defence, it also shows resentment towards Knox.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

On Bruce Fischer's forum they are addressing Sollecito's press conference and the turn of events for the first time and guess what they are saying? That in case Sollecito betrays Knox, he should be reminded of all the evidence that points to his guilt!

Eye for an eye on Brucie's forum.

Image

This gets better and better. Interesting times ahead.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Raffaele Sollecito questioned today in Florence about statements made in Honor Bound. http://www.liberoquotidiano.it/news/cro ... e-pm-.html

His co writer Andrew Gumbel has just appointed an attorney to represent him at the same hearing. http://www.umbria24.it/omicidio-meredit ... 97159.html
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Umbria 24 reports Raffaele Sollecito has been questioned with regards to the libellous remarks made in his book Honor Bound.

Quote:
The defamation Raffaele Sollecito was questioned today in the early afternoon at the offices of the Prosecutor of the Republic of Florence Giambartolomei by the deputy prosecutor who accused him of defaming the prosecutor Giuliano Mignini and have vilified the Order Judiciary in general and the State Police, which has completed the investigation in proceedings relating to the killing of Meredith Kercher, through some of the statements contained in the book Honour Bound written with Andrew Gumbel in English. The book was distributed only in the United States on the basis of a specific contractual agreement with the American publishing house and in any case none of the European countries.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Bruce Fischer's friends shouldn't be surprised, we'd been predicting RS would turn on her for ever so long...
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks Nell and Ergon for the links.

Attachment:
RS and Brizioli.jpg


Scrupulous defense. "Raffaele - says his lawyer Alfredo Brizioli - defended himself with extreme thoroughness and accuracy of detail, as well as deposited a substantial statement of defense; he denies any wrongdoing and is surprised he did not have the notice of having been summoned in any way by the magistrate but had learned of the proceedings against him only from newspapers. He does not consider it acceptable that we can accept as the object of the offense unauthorized translation of some sentences made ​​directly and exclusively by the plaintiff; he is also amazed by the contents of at least some tentative verbal summary of information already in the file and from the public prosecutor of Perugia, which will be the subject of careful consideration."

Same problems would have raised another suspect, the English [writer] Andrew Gumbel, who, until recently considered untraceable, has today appointed his legal counsel, the lawyer Francesca Bacecci, whose office is domiciled in Perugia. The prosecutor must now decide, in the light of new evidence obtained, whether to archive the prosecution or ask for a trial of the suspects.


UMBRIA24


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Raffaele Sollecito questioned today in Florence about statements made in Honor Bound. http://www.liberoquotidiano.it/news/cro ... e-pm-.html

His co writer Andrew Gumbel has just appointed an attorney to represent him at the same hearing. http://www.umbria24.it/omicidio-meredit ... 97159.html


So, Peter Quennell was right again.

A lot of newcomers to the debate (anglowithnolawdegree, The Redundant Reverend Screechy McHalfwit, etc.) won't remember what it was like in the early days of this case, back in 2007-8, when I was undecided, and the FOA were promising all kinds of things:

There's "NO evidence"; the prosecutor is "insane"; AK never imbibed street drugs; "53 hours" of nonstop interrogation without water or bathroom breaks; the confession/ false accusation has been deemed inadmissible; the knife has been deemed inadmissible; the clasp has been deemed inadmissible; the DNA "matches half of Italy"; RS was referring to AK, not Meredith, when writing about the cooking accident; etc.; etc.; etc..

It took me a few years to realize it, but, as more and more information rolled in from the courtroom and from the defendants themselves, it became clear that the claims I had been reading on FOA platforms were turning out to be lies, while the claims I had been reading on TJMK were turning out to be true.

Here we are, almost 7 years down the road, and that pattern remains unchanged.

I suppose it's hard for late arrivals to imagine the impact of the FOA's early lies on the thinking of the Old Guard. People taking an interest in this case after 2010, were introduced to a better class of FOA lies.


Last edited by Jackie on Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Just because things don't happen right away, doesn't mean he was wrong, Jackie. Next up, the Knox parents defamation case continuing,

Andrea Vogt‏@andreavogt ·
Nxt week: #amandaknox parents face trial (in absentia) on charges of defaming Perugia police w/abuse claims. Sollecito to hold presser.

(Courtesy ORG)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A lot of the action on this case is happening on Twitter, as we get to see the reactions of Sollecito family members Aunt Sara and Cristina Magnani, which are very revelatory of family thinking and what their plan of action might be.

Rather than blame Amanda Knox directly, they are blaming the FOA's over the top tactics as somehow contributing to little Raffaele's woes. They predictably responded by calling them "crazy women" and telling them to put a sock on it. Doug Bremner and the Chris Mellas surrogate "Guilter Watchin" were the worst offenders.

We now have Frank Sfarzo warning them not to rock the boat at the conference https://twitter.com/FrankSfarzo/status/ ... 6388761600 (he actually's been at them for some time now, promising dire consequences for their boyo's case if they offend the FOA)

Funniest line "I wrote a book about the case (he must mean Dempsey's) and he was acquitted, you come in and see what happens to him" LOL.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Just because things don't happen right away, doesn't mean he was wrong, Jackie. Next up, the Knox parents defamation case continuing,

Andrea Vogt‏@andreavogt ·
Nxt week: #amandaknox parents face trial (in absentia) on charges of defaming Perugia police w/abuse claims. Sollecito to hold presser.

(Courtesy ORG)


Indeed.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
A lot of the action on this case is happening on Twitter, as we get to see the reactions of Sollecito family members Aunt Sara and Cristina Magnani, which are very revelatory of family thinking and what their plan of action might be.

Rather than blame Amanda Knox directly, they are blaming the FOA's over the top tactics as somehow contributing to little Raffaele's woes. They predictably responded by calling them "crazy women" and telling them to put a sock on it. Doug Bremner and the Chris Mellas surrogate "Guilter Watchin" were the worst offenders.

We now have Frank Sfarzo warning them not to rock the boat at the conference https://twitter.com/FrankSfarzo/status/ ... 6388761600 (he actually's been at them for some time now, promising dire consequences for their boyo's case if they offend the FOA)

Funniest line "I wrote a book about the case (he must mean Dempsey's) and he was acquitted, you come in and see what happens to him" LOL.


Sara Achille and Cristina Magnani have criticised the FOA for their wild claims which they felt jeopardised Raffaele Sollecito's defence, but they have also openly accused Amanda Knox of being dishonest, implying she has something to hide.

Here is one of Sara Achille's (Sollecito's aunt) latest tweets addressing the different versions given by Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox about Filomena's closed/ajar bedroom door. For those who are not following the Twitter conversations, previously they had discussed the differing versions of both defendants' accounts and insisted that Filomena's bedroom door had been open just as Raffaele Sollecito had described it.

Image

Translation: "@cate69 @Exonerate_Knox @cri_magnani Raffaele sees the broken glass of the window and he is surprised that Amanda hasn't told him"

They clearly are trying to shift all the blame to Amanda Knox.


As a refresher:

Sollecito's version according to his police statement from November 5, 2007: Filomena's door was wide open.

Quote:
Raffaele Sollecito's police statement, November 5, 2007

"She opened the door with her keys and I went in. I noticed that Filomena's door was wide open and there was broken glass on the floor and the room was in a mess. Amanda's door was open but it was tidy. Then I went towards Meredith's door and saw that it was locked."

Source: Corriere della Sera & English translation - TMOMK



Sollecito's version according to his book 'Honor Bound': Filomena's door was slightly ajar, but not closed and he pushed the door open.

Quote:
Honor Bound by Raffaele Sollecito and Andrew Gumble

“Amanda and I decided to go through her house room by room. Filomena called and said she had spoken to Laura at her family's house near Rome, so only Meredith remained unaccounted for. Her bedroom door was still locked.

I agreed with Amanda, the kitchen and living room looked normal. So did Laura's room; a couple of drawers were pulled open, but that didn't strike me as out of the ordinary. Amanda's room was apparently untouched; she had left the previous night's clothes strewn over her bed, and her other things were less than tidy, but nothing seemed to be missing. Then I pushed open Filomena's door, which had been left slightly ajar, and saw that the place was trashed. Clothes and belongings were strewn everywhere. The window had a large, roundish hole, and broken glass was spread all over the floor.”



Knox's version according to her email sent home before she was arrested & her book 'Waiting To Be Heard', saying the door was closed and she was the one who opened it.

Quote:
Email sent Sunday, November 4, 2007 to family and friends

"raffael and i gathered our things and went back to my house. i unlocked the door and im going to tell this really slowly to get everything right so just have patience with me. the living room/kitchen was fine. looked perfectly normal. i was checking for signs of our things missing, should there have been a burglar in our house the night before. filomenas room was closed, but when i opned the door her room and a mess and her window was open and completely broken, but her computer was still sitting on her desk like it always was and this confused me. convinced that we had been robbed i went to lauras room and looked quickley in, but it was spottless, like it hadnt even been touced. this too, i thought was odd.


Quote:
Waiting To Be Heard by Amanda Knox

“Over a quick breakfast, Raffaele and I talked some more about what I’d seen. “Maybe the toilet is just broken,” he said.
Even before we’d downed the last sips of our coffee, Filomena called back. “What do you see?” she demanded. Her panic was retriggering my own.
“Filomena,” I said, as evenly as I could, “we’re just leaving Raffaele’s.”
“Ten minutes later, when we reached the villa, my stomach was knotted with dread. “What if someone was in here?” I said, feeling increasingly creeped out. Raffaele held my free hand while I unlocked the door. I yelled, “Is anyone here?”
At first nothing seemed amiss. The house was quiet, and the kitchen/living area was immaculate. I poked my head in Laura’s room. It looked fine, too. Then I opened Filomena’s door. I gasped. The window had been shattered and glass was everywhere. Clothes were heaped all over the bed and floor. The drawers and cabinets were open. All I could see was chaos. “Oh my God, someone broke in!” I shouted to Raffaele, who was right behind me. In the next instant, I spotted Filomena’s laptop and digital camera sitting on the desk. I couldn’t get my head around it. “That’s so weird,” I said. “Her things are here. I don’t understand. What could have happened?”


So both defendants have vivid memories of how they each opened the door. One says the door was closed, the other one says it was ajar.


Last edited by Nell on Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Added quote from Sollecito's police statement
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Is Sollecito's legal team nuts? The grand plan is to apply for a lesser charge of aiding and abetting, a tacit admission that he was at the cottage, yet say he knows he was at his apartment BUT he can't remember the evening? Let me off on a lesser felony or annul because I don't remember??? Oh, he's so coming over as Mr Honesty. Not.

He's refusing to co-operate, just as he alsways has done, yet is asking the High Court to give him goodies? In return for what and he deserves it why? Sollecito and his people are just dripping with entitlement.

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

In his signed statement to the police RS claims Filomena's door was wide open. They change their version of events so many times it is hard to keep up.
Quote:
She opened the door with her keys and I went in. I noticed that Filomena's door was wide open and there was broken glass on the floor and the room was in a mess.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/R ... the_Police
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
In his signed statement to the police RS claims Filomena's door was wide open. They change their version of events so many times it is hard to keep up.
Quote:
She opened the door with her keys and I went in. I noticed that Filomena's door was wide open and there was broken glass on the floor and the room was in a mess.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/R ... the_Police


Thank you max. For the sake of completeness and clarity I edited my eearlier comment to include the relevant quote from Sollecito's police statement.

In my opinion nothing of what Sollecito does outside the courtroom will have an affect on the outcome of the trial. If he wanted to raise doubts about Knox, he should have done that in front of the judges. He did not.

It is my opinion though that his current behaviour will have a deep impact on Amanda Knox's situation. Sollecito and his family have helped considerably to expose and showcase her supporters behaviour as well. These people are lunatics.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Is Sollecito's legal team nuts? The grand plan is to apply for a lesser charge of aiding and abetting, a tacit admission that he was at the cottage, yet say he knows he was at his apartment BUT he can't remember the evening? Let me off on a lesser felony or annul because I don't remember??? Oh, he's so coming over as Mr Honesty. Not.

He's refusing to co-operate, just as he alsways has done, yet is asking the High Court to give him goodies? In return for what and he deserves it why? Sollecito and his people are just dripping with entitlement.


I believe both appeals are dead in the water.

It would be interesting to know whose idea it was to maintain a joint defence for so long. Giulia Bongiorno seemed to hint to a separation strategy as early as the appeal before Hellmann's court when she said "Raffaele Sollecito is only guilty by association." and that all the evidence pointed to Knox. I always wondered if it was his legal team that considered a joint defence to be their best bet or if it was on Sollecito's behest. He seemed to have feelings for Knox long after they had been incarcerated.

I am sure that Knox's feelings for Sollecito were over as soon as he withdrew his alibi for her. On the other hand, the Sollecitos seem to blame her for what has happened to him.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I also have a question. Where are the American Mainstream Media's reports on the latest important developments? Suddenly, they are not interested in reporting on the case and are hiding the news from their readership. Journalistic integrity is dead in America, now there is only propaganda, agenda and infotainment.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Prof. Gill comments on Amanda Knox regarding innocence/guilt


Prof. Gill is the latest addition to the experts-judging-from-a-distance who offer support for Amanda Knox and since he has was critical of the interpretation of the DNA evidence, his comments have been quoted and tweeted endlessly by Amanda Knox supporters and are featured prominently on Bruce Fischer's newest website, the copycat Meredith Kercher wiki.

Prof. Peter Gill on DNA evidence in Meredith Kercher murder case (Youtube vide)


Prof. Peter Gill was contacted and asked for comment regarding his support for Amanda Knox and the validity of DNA evidence and it seems he is not the fervent supporter he was made out to be.

"I dont know definitively how the DNA was transferred - I simply make a list of all of the possibilities."

That sounds far more careful than his previous comments. One method to transfer DNA is to make direct contact with an item.

Image

Prof. Peter Gill has admitted before that all his knowledge concerning the Meredith Kercher murder case is based on a translation of the Conti & Vecchiotti report offered by members from Bruce Fischer's forum. That explains why his knowledge about the DNA collection and lab work is so poor. He did not bother to verify any of the information offered to him.

Prof. Peter Gill on Meredith Kercher murder case

Image
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

To my friends at ORG:

Always read your comments with interest. You may be wrong about Bruce Fischer's forum member "Analemma" though, it is an astronomical term https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma and not quite what you thought it was, you bad boys :)
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

In Peter Gill's alternate universe headquartered at his ivory tower, people should only be murdered in accredited sterile laboratories for the DNA found on/around their bodies to be acceptable as evidence and LCN DNA is Eeeeviiil. His position is ideological, not based on the probabilistic merits of the evidence in this case, for which he's only reviewed a fraction of the evidence. How is it possible or honest to publicly declare a definitive professional conclusion on the DNA evidence based on one small report (which has now been totally discredited by the Court of Appeal and the High Court) whilst ignoring the huge pool of other scientific documentation and testimony provided in this case? What kind of scientific methodology is that and where is that accepted as good practice? He also, is another ignoramus of the law who believes the mere fact that something is "possible" lends it weight as evidence and allows it to trump all other evidence. There is a reason why it is judges, rather then scientific experts, that preside over trials and issue verdicts.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
To my friends at ORG:

Always read your comments with interest. You may be wrong about Bruce Fischer's forum member "Analemma" though, it is an astronomical term https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma and not quite what you thought it was, you bad boys :)


Ahhh...I had thought that that user had snuck in the handle via the back door ;)

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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
The Machine has done more to help the cause of Meredith Kercher and her family, and has been more constant in that support than most. Peter Quennell has done much good as well, and I think we owe every one involved in setting up the four pro-justice sites a certain amount of civility.

But I do confess to my over use of the adjective 'excellent'; next time I'll consult my Thesaurusex :)


I have big respect for the many people who worked tirelessly, to get the message out. There are many. pp-(
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Surely, if this presser goes ahead tomorrow, Knox's Italian lawyers will have to make some sort of public response...the Italian media will be clamoring for one. It will be interesting to see what the state of play will be for the two sides after this reset.

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Quote:
'Home Alone' Raffaele Sollecito to Abandon Amanda Knox in Final Appeal of Meredith Kercher Murder

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/home-alone-raf ... er-1454742
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Re-post from .org:

Post by Tiziano » 30 Jun 2014, 03:22
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewto ... 44#p170144
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Corriere
The news conference planned for Tuesday this week is getting some preliminary publicity. A quick summary of the Corriere report follows.

A report from Corriere della Sera, with the headline:
MEREDITH KERCHER MURDER, NOW RAFFAELE SOLLECITO "UNLOADS" AMANDA

* Maori and Bongiono claim that RS is not AK and that Justice must also recognise this.

* The new RS defence strategy as outlined in the Cassation appeal is to differentiate the positions of RS and AK.

* "Among the numerous flaws the proceedings appealed against present, the one linked to the claimed impossibility of differentiating between the two accused stands out. On this point the Appeal Court denied any in-depth analysis at all of the individual roles - an investigation urged by the defence - avoiding taking any position about alternative constructive hypotheses."

* 10 points are enumerated by the defence in this regard:
- AK's memorial referring to events at via della Pergola was in the singular
- AK reported receiving SMS not to go to work from Lumumba, but went out just the same
- AK admitted having lied to RS
- RS did not calumny anyone: the accusation against PL was never confirmed by RS
- AK in her memorial positioned only herself at the crime scene at the time of the scream
- only AK's blood was on the knife blade
- no mixed traces RS/MK were found and highlighted by luminol in the house
- Quintavalle claimed to have seen AK the morning of November 2nd, not RS
- RS did not know RG and had no reason for wanting MK's death
- the alleged bad relations and the question of disappearance of money regarded only MK and AK
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

June 30, 2014
Meredith murder, Sollecito dumps Amanda: "That night I was home alone"
By Renato Marino

The appeal filed to the Supreme Court by Raffaele's lawyers seeks the annulment of a conviction of second degree delivered by the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Florence. Sollecito, after three trials, now says:

    "The night of the crime I was at my house in Perugia. Nothing else is safe."

That is, Amanda was not with him that night when Meredith was killed in her bedroom of the cottage in Via della Pergola. He would be entirely unconnected to what happened in that room. Sollecito "dumps" Amanda?

    "Raffaele is only sure that that night he was at home alone"

repeat his lawyers Giulia Bongiorno and Luca Maori, who added:

    "Raffaele thinks only of himself. Among the many flaws that the procedure has had, what strikes the eye is the fact related to inability [of the court] to differentiate the positions of the defendants."

The Court of Florence, is explained in the appeal, said:

    "there is no room for any differentiation of criminal liability that otherwise would be based on the principle of unproven petitions"

but:

    "as documented by each page of the process and highlighted by the defense, the possibility that Raffaele Sollecito had taken a different position compared to that of the other two perpetrators resulted from a series of elements steeped in meaning, the first of which was represented by the content of the memorial, in which Amanda Knox spoke in the singular about the happenings in via della Pergola."

What are these elements?

    "The first is related to the fact that Amanda reported that she had received a message from Lumumba telling her not to go to work, but she went anyway. Then Amanda admitted that she lied to her boyfriend. Sollecito has never slandered anyone: the accusation of Patrick has never been confirmed by him."

If the new argument were accepted, the position of Amanda could be reconsidered again. Sollecito's defense in the appeal also insists that:

    "On the blade of the knife, only Amanda's DNA was found and no mixed traces of Sollecito and Kercher were found and highlighted by luminol in the house."

Sollecito, like Knox, has always proclaimed his innocence. ...


CRIMEBLOG
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito lawyers' tired mantra an-)) :

And the last jab [dig] [at the courts]: neither the prosecutor, nor other parties have ever called for an examination of the accused Sollecito, who therefore has never exercised the right to remain silent [not to respond], in fact he has intervened repeatedly in court by releasing spontaneous statements, also in order to clarify certain points, having taken an active part in the trial of first instance, appeal and second appeal.


ARTICOLO TRE
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Report: Amanda Knox's former boyfriend to abandon her alibi in final murder appeal
By Josh Kerns

"It's stunning because we've been hearing consistently Raffaele Sollecito had been corroborating Amanda Knox's account, essentially an alibi," says Anne Bremner, the attorney for the Friends of Amanda Knox.

Bremner says in addition to his testimony, Sollecito's memoir "Honor Bound" is based entirely on the premise he stood by Knox and told the truth because it was the right thing to do.

"The question is what does he have to do or feel he has to do to get through this thing. Maybe he's been advised to distance himself from Amanda Knox, but he can't deviate from what the truth is," Bremner says.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
Quote:
'Home Alone' Raffaele Sollecito to Abandon Amanda Knox in Final Appeal of Meredith Kercher Murder

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/home-alone-raf ... er-1454742


Ha ha ha. 'Home Alone' Raffaele Sollecito ... . That's the best headline so far.

In my opinion it does not really matter what he decides to say at his press conference or not at this point.

We all know what Raffaele Sollecito will not do under any circumstance at the presser and that is reaffirming Knox's alibi. Should he choose not to address that part at all, it will still be fatal for Knox.

He dropped her. Under the rolling bus.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Sollecito lawyers' tired mantra an-)) :

And the last jab [dig] [at the courts]: neither the prosecutor, nor other parties have ever called for an examination of the accused Sollecito, who therefore has never exercised the right to remain silent [not to respond], in fact he has intervened repeatedly in court by releasing spontaneous statements, also in order to clarify certain points, having taken an active part in the trial of first instance, appeal and second appeal.


ARTICOLO TRE


In his book 'Honor Bound' Raffaele Sollecito wrote he did not want to incriminate himself, hence he refused to respond to questions.

Quote:
Honor Bound by Raffaele Sollecito and Andrew Gumble

“I could see now that Mignini was not open to changing his ideas midstream. He didn't come for information, only for confirmation of what he already believed. I was becoming aware that, in the Italian criminal justice system, the preventive detention to which Amanda and I were being subjected is frequently used as a pressure tactic to extract confessions. I was now quite sure the authorities were keeping me in solitary confinement to get me to testify against Amanda, if not also against myself. Since I had no such testimony to offer, I did the Italian equivalent of taking the Fifth: I availed myself, as we say, of the right not to respond.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Ergon wrote:
A lot of the action on this case is happening on Twitter, as we get to see the reactions of Sollecito family members Aunt Sara and Cristina Magnani, which are very revelatory of family thinking and what their plan of action might be.

Rather than blame Amanda Knox directly, they are blaming the FOA's over the top tactics as somehow contributing to little Raffaele's woes. They predictably responded by calling them "crazy women" and telling them to put a sock on it. Doug Bremner and the Chris Mellas surrogate "Guilter Watchin" were the worst offenders.

We now have Frank Sfarzo warning them not to rock the boat at the conference https://twitter.com/FrankSfarzo/status/ ... 6388761600 (he actually's been at them for some time now, promising dire consequences for their boyo's case if they offend the FOA)

Funniest line "I wrote a book about the case (he must mean Dempsey's) and he was acquitted, you come in and see what happens to him" LOL.


Sara Achille and Cristina Magnani have criticised the FOA for their wild claims which they felt jeopardised Raffaele Sollecito's defence, but they have also openly accused Amanda Knox of being dishonest, implying she has something to hide.

Here is one of Sara Achille's (Sollecito's aunt) latest tweets addressing the different versions given by Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox about Filomena's closed/ajar bedroom door. For those who are not following the Twitter conversations, previously they had discussed the differing versions of both defendants' accounts and insisted that Filomena's bedroom door had been open just as Raffaele Sollecito had described it.

Image

Translation: "@cate69 @Exonerate_Knox @cri_magnani Raffaele sees the broken glass of the window and he is surprised that Amanda hasn't told him"

They clearly are trying to shift all the blame to Amanda Knox.


As a refresher:

Sollecito's version according to his police statement from November 5, 2007: Filomena's door was wide open.

Quote:
Raffaele Sollecito's police statement, November 5, 2007

"She opened the door with her keys and I went in. I noticed that Filomena's door was wide open and there was broken glass on the floor and the room was in a mess. Amanda's door was open but it was tidy. Then I went towards Meredith's door and saw that it was locked."

Source: Corriere della Sera & English translation - TMOMK



Sollecito's version according to his book 'Honor Bound': Filomena's door was slightly ajar, but not closed and he pushed the door open.

Quote:
Honor Bound by Raffaele Sollecito and Andrew Gumble

“Amanda and I decided to go through her house room by room. Filomena called and said she had spoken to Laura at her family's house near Rome, so only Meredith remained unaccounted for. Her bedroom door was still locked.

I agreed with Amanda, the kitchen and living room looked normal. So did Laura's room; a couple of drawers were pulled open, but that didn't strike me as out of the ordinary. Amanda's room was apparently untouched; she had left the previous night's clothes strewn over her bed, and her other things were less than tidy, but nothing seemed to be missing. Then I pushed open Filomena's door, which had been left slightly ajar, and saw that the place was trashed. Clothes and belongings were strewn everywhere. The window had a large, roundish hole, and broken glass was spread all over the floor.”



Knox's version according to her email sent home before she was arrested & her book 'Waiting To Be Heard', saying the door was closed and she was the one who opened it.

Quote:
Email sent Sunday, November 4, 2007 to family and friends

"raffael and i gathered our things and went back to my house. i unlocked the door and im going to tell this really slowly to get everything right so just have patience with me. the living room/kitchen was fine. looked perfectly normal. i was checking for signs of our things missing, should there have been a burglar in our house the night before. filomenas room was closed, but when i opned the door her room and a mess and her window was open and completely broken, but her computer was still sitting on her desk like it always was and this confused me. convinced that we had been robbed i went to lauras room and looked quickley in, but it was spottless, like it hadnt even been touced. this too, i thought was odd.


Quote:
Waiting To Be Heard by Amanda Knox

“Over a quick breakfast, Raffaele and I talked some more about what I’d seen. “Maybe the toilet is just broken,” he said.
Even before we’d downed the last sips of our coffee, Filomena called back. “What do you see?” she demanded. Her panic was retriggering my own.
“Filomena,” I said, as evenly as I could, “we’re just leaving Raffaele’s.”
“Ten minutes later, when we reached the villa, my stomach was knotted with dread. “What if someone was in here?” I said, feeling increasingly creeped out. Raffaele held my free hand while I unlocked the door. I yelled, “Is anyone here?”
At first nothing seemed amiss. The house was quiet, and the kitchen/living area was immaculate. I poked my head in Laura’s room. It looked fine, too. Then I opened Filomena’s door. I gasped. The window had been shattered and glass was everywhere. Clothes were heaped all over the bed and floor. The drawers and cabinets were open. All I could see was chaos. “Oh my God, someone broke in!” I shouted to Raffaele, who was right behind me. In the next instant, I spotted Filomena’s laptop and digital camera sitting on the desk. I couldn’t get my head around it. “That’s so weird,” I said. “Her things are here. I don’t understand. What could have happened?”


So both defendants have vivid memories of how they each opened the door. One says the door was closed, the other one says it was ajar.


Thank you for this post, Nell! Amazing stuff from Aunt Sara.


Last edited by Jackie on Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Sollecito lawyers' tired mantra an-)) :

And the last jab [dig] [at the courts]: neither the prosecutor, nor other parties have ever called for an examination of the accused Sollecito, who therefore has never exercised the right to remain silent [not to respond], in fact he has intervened repeatedly in court by releasing spontaneous statements, also in order to clarify certain points, having taken an active part in the trial of first instance, appeal and second appeal.


ARTICOLO TRE


In his book 'Honor Bound' Raffaele Sollecito wrote he did not want to incriminate himself, hence he refused to respond to questions.

Quote:
Honor Bound by Raffaele Sollecito and Andrew Gumble

“I could see now that Mignini was not open to changing his ideas midstream. He didn't come for information, only for confirmation of what he already believed. I was becoming aware that, in the Italian criminal justice system, the preventive detention to which Amanda and I were being subjected is frequently used as a pressure tactic to extract confessions. I was now quite sure the authorities were keeping me in solitary confinement to get me to testify against Amanda, if not also against myself. Since I had no such testimony to offer, I did the Italian equivalent of taking the Fifth: I availed myself, as we say, of the right not to respond.


So why did he subsequently appear on CNN's AC360 to look right into the camera, with a bewildered look on his face, and say he would have answered questions if only someone had bothered to ask him? LOL
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
I also have a question. Where are the American Mainstream Media's reports on the latest important developments? Suddenly, they are not interested in reporting on the case and are hiding the news from their readership. Journalistic integrity is dead in America, now there is only propaganda, agenda and infotainment.


It's amazing to behold isn't it? It seems the MSM powers that be really have decided to essentially back Amanda's version regardless of any inconvenient facts (old and new). It may also be that, short of a full-on confession, the case is just too long in tooth to garner much attention now: "This is Chicago America, kid. You can't beat fresh blood on the walls."
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

In approximately an hour Sollecito is supposed to hold his press conference.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Quote:
Amanda Knox’s biological parents, Curt Knox and Edda Mellas, faced a trial hearing in Perugia Monday on charges of defaming the local police with allegations in the international media (and reported in Italy) that their daughter was abused during questioning during the 2007 investigation into the murder of Meredith Kercher. The case Monday came before Perugia Judge Noviello, who opted not to hear witness testimony, but instead moved the case to Florence.

http://thefreelancedesk.com/amanda-knox ... cher-case/
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
In approximately an hour Sollecito is supposed to hold his press conference.

http://video.corriere.it/omicidio-mered ... bbb8a7659d

Live feed for people who have a decent internet connection...unlike me :( Not that I can understand it anyway :)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Tweeters Barbie Latza Nadeau

#sollecito says not here to change his version of events, but to clarify final appeal. Says he still believes in innocence of #amandaknox

#sollecito says they were convicted entirely on prison diary of #amandaknox and says has nothing to do with him.

#sollecito says he isn't mentioned once in #amandaknox prison diary, yet he is being convicted because of it, says it isn't fair, its her's

#sollecito says #amandaknox actually gave him an alibi in her prison diary, if they consider it true, it absolves him

#sollecito lawyer says #amandaknox sent the Patrick SMS when she was OUT of his house, says she was not with him first part of night.

#sollecito says;"my name is raffaele sollecito not amanda marie knox"

#sollecito lawyer says #sollecito always said he didn't remember where #amandaknox was the first part of the evening, has not changed story

#sollecito spinning why he wasn't called as a witness but reality is his lawyers could and should have called him

#sollecito says Rudy Guede says the murder took place by 21:20 and says he can prove he was home until at least 21:26

#sollecito relying on rudy guede testimony on timing of murder, even tho RG says #sollecito #amandaknox were there #canthaveitbothways

#sollecito hedges on question about details of where #amandaknox was early part of night, lawyers quickly refer to legal documents


Last edited by max on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:31 am, edited 5 times in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
Tweeters Barbie Latza Nadeau

#sollecito says not here to change his version of events, but to clarify final appeal. Says he still believes in innocence of #amandaknox

#sollecito says they were convicted entirely on prison diary of #amandaknox and says has nothing to do with him.

#sollecito says he isn't mentioned once in #amandaknox prison diary, yet he is being convicted because of it, says it isn't fair, its her's

#sollecito says #amandaknox actually gave him an alibi in her prison diary, if they consider it true, it absolves him

#sollecito lawyer says #amandaknox sent the Patrick SMS when she was OUT of his house, says she was not with him first part of night.


That's bad news right there. Of course they want to avoid drawing unnecessary attention to their multiple not matching versions of events, but they subtly hint they were not together.

He "believes" her to be innocent is not the same thing as saying he clearly remembers or knows she was with him all night and could not have committed the murder.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The night starts for Bongiorno around 23:00 according to the press conference. Everything that happened before that, is not la notte. Good one!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
The night starts for Bongiorno around 23:00 according to the press conference. Everything that happened before that, is not la notte. Good one!

She scares me :( RS in 'I am so innocent' white. He could do with a haircut.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
Nell wrote:
The night starts for Bongiorno around 23:00 according to the press conference. Everything that happened before that, is not la notte. Good one!

She scares me :( RS in 'I am so innocent' white. He could do with a haircut.


Did you see his father coming up from behind and whisper something in his ear? Then, when Raffaele Sollecito had the word, he made sure to remind everyone that he did not really know Rudy Guede.

Someone should have told him how to behave in front of a camera. He coughed in the microphones, played with his hair, scratched his eye. I am only waiting to see him yawn in front of the whole audience.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Relying on Guede is pure nonsense. He later said he left around 10:30pm. Right after the murder. His 9:20pm was not accurate since he also said he met up with Meredith an hour before that. Nobody is going to fall for that kind of trickery,

Then Knox was out while she sent the SMS? Then the student that stopped by was off with her timings or what are they trying to say? A press conference is not the place for such claims anyway. What a waste of time.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

They want to have it both ways. They say they believe Amanda Knox is innocent and that having sent a sms from outside his house does not make her guilty, but they constantly point out that there are elements that do not support the initial alibi.

The biggest clue was Bongiorno saying the night started only at around 23:00 and that her client had not lied when he said they spent the night together.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Press conference is over.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yah, but claiming that she was out when sending that text, and testimony that she opened the door to the student 5 minutes after sending that text needs some explaining me thinks?
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Did anybody ask him if that was Knox on the CCTV images, or even what time she came back after going out? I can't believe none of the journalists even tried.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Source: TM News Italy

Quote:
Bad Google Translation:

Meredith case, would urge: "Amanda is innocent, but there are anomalies"
"I'm her sponsor, I say what I have experienced myself." Lawyers: set aside the judgment of conviction


Rome, July 1 (TMNews) - Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox did not get confirmation to believe in his innocence, while preparing the cards for the annulment of the sentence with his lawyers. "I've always believed in the innocence of Amanda Knox appeal from the judgment of a register that there are some anomalies about his behavior," he dettoSollecito during a press conference to appeal to the Supreme Court after being sentenced to 25 years for murder of Meredith Kercher occurred in Perugia in November 2007.

Sollecito, emphasizing not to make any retraction compared to his version of events, said: "I'm not the guarantor of Amanda - he continued - I can respond to what I experienced." The lawyer Giulia Bongiorno said then that the appellate ruling issued bis in Florence, sent a text message from Amanda to Patrick Lumumba dates back at 20:35 and would have been sent away from Sollecito's house. "This says the judgment," added the barrister.

"Given that, in our opinion, the crime would have occurred between 21 and 21:30 and that the murder Rudy Guede speaks at that time, we note that in its judgment in the appeal of a call to say that Amanda and Raffaele were not together., and ask that you do not add more judges explain. " At this point, Raphael reiterated: "In the records there is no evidence that I was at my house and I was seeing a movie of Japanese cartoons."

Int8
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Corriere Della Sera: I believe Amanda to be innocent, but she told me a lie

Quote:
THE COURT CASE OF THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER
Sollecito: "I believe that Amanda is innocent, but he told me a lie"

From the judgment of Florence shows that Knox sent a text message to Lumumba, not Raffaele's house during the hours in which the crime was committed

"I think Amanda is innocent, but I found out by reading the reasons for judgment of Florence that maybe I told a lie." And 'This is the meaning of the defense of Raffaele Sollecito sentenced on appeal to 25 years for the murder of Meredith Kercher together with her engaged ta era the U.S. citizen Amanda Knox. The key point is in a text message that was sent by Amanda to her employer at the time lavore Patrick Lumumba out of Sollecito's house at the time of the alleged crime. This would separate the procedural position of the two. Sollecito has in fact always told to believe that Amanda was at her house during the night of the murder.

Innocence
"Both myself and my family believe in the innocence of Amanda, we deeply believe in his innocence. There is no retraction from partemia "said Sollecito in Rome, during a press conference in the course in which they were exposed points of the appeal against the judgment of a call that has condemned him for the murder of Amanda and Meredith. "In all these years I have spoken to me. Of scientific evidence against me. I ask you today, in 2014, when the founding basis of a conviction is a memoir written by Amanda in prison, which describes the founding of the facts for sentencing and that in fact I'm cleared, then I wonder what I c ' within. "
July 1st, 2014 | 11:51
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox supporters still try to spin the press conference as a victory for Knox's and Sollecito's unity.

Desperate times.

He says he didn't lie, he always maintained he could not remember where she was the first part of the evening. Ouch.

What a hero.
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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It seems someone close to Sollecito is doing their utmost to discredit Amanda Knox in the media. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a story about Knox being caught in an alleged cocaine scandal breaks on the same day Sollecito holds a press conference:

Amanda Knox Caught In Alleged Cocaine Scandal — Will Drug Allegations Crush Her Bid For An Appeal In Meredith Kercher Murder Case?

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... rder-case/
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Machine wrote:
It seems someone close to Sollecito is doing their utmost to discredit Amanda Knox in the media. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a story about Knox being caught in an alleged cocaine scandal breaks on the same day Sollecito holds a press conference:

Amanda Knox Caught In Alleged Cocaine Scandal — Will Drug Allegations Crush Her Bid For An Appeal In Meredith Kercher Murder Case?

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... rder-case/


It looks like someone is going to have a really bad day ...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Oggi - Raffaele Sollecito changes his version of events

Quote:
New version of the murder of British student. Raffaele Sollecito's lawyers are trying to separate his trial story from Amanda. With the appeal filed in the Supreme Court, the lawyers are seeking the annulment of the sentence to 25 years.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Telegraph - Raffaele Sollecito switches defence strategy to potentially incriminate Amanda Knox

Quote:
Sollecito said he could not guarantee Knox's presence at his apartment for the entire evening of the murder. But he said he believed she was innocent.

"I am not the guarantor of Amanda Knox, I am Raffaele Sollecito," he said.

Ahead of the press conference, Sollecito's lawyers were variously quoted in the Italian press as saying that Sollecito "was home alone that night" or that he is "only sure about the fact that he was at home", leaving open the possibility that Knox was not there.

An article in Il Messaggero on Monday had the headline: "Sollecito incriminates Knox: 'The night of the crime she was not with me'"
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox's ex says her version of events is 'imagination and hallucination'
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world ... index.html
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Analysis of the non-event, and was anything more of a non-surprise? Astrology rules!

"I and my family believe Amanda Knox is not pregnant, but if she is, I'm not the father, as Rudy Guede is my witness". What a cock up.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Analysis of the non-event, and was anything more of a non-surprise? Astrology rules!

"I and my family believe Amanda Knox is not pregnant, but if she is, I'm not the father, as Rudy Guede is my witness". What a cock up.


He tried to be subtle, but he threw her under the bus. He maintains he did not lie by shifting the night starting at 11 pm which is a joke and then says 'Oh, what she did in the late afternoon, I have no idea'.

His separation defence strategy will not work and today he made sure her public image is ruined.

If he is panicking like this now, imagine what will happen once his cell door shuts behind him and Knox has still a chance to avoid extradition. He is not going to take the fall alone for a crime that was her idea.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A few more headlines, courtesy of The Machine posted on .org:

Amanda Knox's ex says her version of events is 'imagination and hallucination'

Amanda Knox 'Not with Lover Raffaele Sollecito Minutes before Meredith Kercher's Murder'

Ex: Amanda Knox's Story 'Hallucination'

'Sollecito was not with Knox the entire evening'
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... rder-case/


Sometimes I wonder who exactly was Amanda Knox BEFORE her study abroad? In her short time in Perugia she established herself in the drug scene like a pro. She had no inhibitions.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Teasing the Knoxii here http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world ... boyfriend/
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

indie wrote:
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/07/amanda-knox-caught-in-alleged-cocaine-scandal-will-drug-allegations-crush-her-bid-for-an-appeal-in-meredith-kercher-murder-case/


Sometimes I wonder who exactly was Amanda Knox BEFORE her study abroad? In her short time in Perugia she established herself in the drug scene like a pro. She had no inhibitions.


Hi, Indie. She was disturbed, and a drug abuser, before her study abroad, as Barbie Nadeau writes in Angel Face.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Mirror - Amanda Knox: Boyfriend in dramatic u-turn as he claims 'anomalies' in her evidence

Quote:
However, today, seven years later, he says he is "not sure" whether he was with Knox the night Meredith was found stabbed to death in the cottage she shared with the American.

Sollecito claims the phone records show that Knox was away from his house for part of the evening and in a dramatic change of legal tactics claimed there are 'anomalies' in Knox's story.

[...]

He said in Rome today: "I have always believed in the innocence of Amanda. But I have to react to the accusations of the court and to the text message.

"Either the court has made their umpteenth mistake or she lied to me."

He added: "I was in love with her and we had some very happy moments, but ultimately Amanda was a stranger.

"There are anomalies in her version of events. Against me there is nothing."

The 'fundamental basis' for the conviction is Knox's memo to police in which she says she was at the cottage when the murder took place, he said.

'I believe this was a hallucination, but if the court believes it is true then they have to accept she did not say I was there. She gave me an alibi. '

[...]



However, Amanda Knox did not say he was not present when the murder was committed. She said she was not sure if Raffaele Sollecito was present, that's all.

Quote:
Amanda Knox's voluntary statement to police, November 6, 2007 at 5:45 am

I am not sure if Raffaele was there as well that night ...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Machine wrote:
It seems someone close to Sollecito is doing their utmost to discredit Amanda Knox in the media. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a story about Knox being caught in an alleged cocaine scandal breaks on the same day Sollecito holds a press conference:

Amanda Knox Caught In Alleged Cocaine Scandal — Will Drug Allegations Crush Her Bid For An Appeal In Meredith Kercher Murder Case?

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... rder-case/



Yay... maybe the media will comment on the pre-Italy fake robbery/assault she pulled for practice too.

We have mentioned the cocained dealer called before and AFTER the murder many times, but that and the money spent/snorted was always pushed aside by supporters.

ih) . This one is going to take alot of mop-) .
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt wrote about Knox's parents' defamation trial being moved to Florence: The Freelance Desk - Update June 30, 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox Co-Defendant Changes Strategy
By Elisabetta Povoledo

...Mr. Sollecito said he, too, believed that the statement was “only fantasy,” extracted under duress, but his appeal challenges the new court that will next hear the case to ask fresh questions about his role in the killing.

“Let’s say that the statement is real, and that the judges are right, then they’re going to have to explain what my responsibility is,” he said. “We’re basing our argument on what the judges wrote.”

The court also said in its reasoning that Ms. Knox had lied in her deposition and had left Mr. Sollecito’s apartment around the time of the killing of Ms. Kercher, dismissing the defense’s argument that the two defendants, who had known each other just a week when the killing took place, had remained at home to watch a movie and make love. A third defendant, Rudy Guede, has also been convicted of the crime.

Mr. Sollecito said the court believed Ms. Knox, not he, had left his apartment.

“I’m just asking what I have to do with anything,” he said. “If you accept this version where I am not responsible, then you have to explain what my position is.”
...
“I have to deal with my conviction, and I am merely acknowledging what the sentence says,” he said.

Mr. Sollecito said Tuesday he had not spoken to Ms. Knox for some time.

“I’m just an innocent person that has been shouting his innocence for seven years, an injustice that’s gone on too long,” he said.


THE NEW YORK TIMES

So, the court believed that Knox had left his apartment, and now he believes it, too?
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I don't understand Sollecito defense team's argument that Amanda wasn't at his house when she sent a message to Patrick:

Quote:
Sollecito's lawyer Giulia Bongiorno said their appeal would also revolve around a text message which Knox claims to have sent while with Sollecito at his house the night of the murder.

"This text message, according to the court's own ruling, was not sent from his house. Therefore the pair were not together," she said.


http://news.msn.co.nz/article.aspx?id=8868482


Quote:
For the lawyer Bongiorno "It is not possible that Raffaele and Amanda were together when the sms was sent by Amanda at 20.35 because the cell phone was out of range of Raffaele's house."


A text message confirms innocence of Sollecito

However, phone records indicate she had sent that message either from his apartment or from the neighborhood of 130 Corso Garibaldi. How does that prove that she wasn't with him at his home at that moment?

Massei, p.322:

Quote:
− 20.35.48 Amanda sent an SMS in reply to Patrick, at No. 338-7195723; the message was sent when the young woman’s mobile phone was in Corso Garibaldi [1]30 or in the immediate neighbourhood. The cell used, in fact, was that of Via Berardi sector 7
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
.

Hi Ergon I was back in Perugia last week and took a few photos. Walking through the car park I noticed two well lit stairwells to get to the above ground lot. One of the stairs exits by the noisy metal stairs Nara heard running on. It clearly is an easy shortcut to reach Via del Melo and via Pinturicchio. I believe there is also a washroom there.You had asked about the height of the bar to manage access to the garage. It is 34 inch from floor to bottom edge from floor to top 37.
I took a photo last trip and the nail was still there under the window 6 years later. My guess was that the recent demo climb by the professional might have disturbed it. I was right no nail and no recent painting or reno to explain its disappearance. Will post new photo of me in the garage by the bar and the missing nail shot when I get my husband's pics. We were in Rome yesterday or would have attended the latest RS show. Lots has been going on since we left , the tension for the pair must be unbearable.


(Please click on the images to enlarge)

One of two metal exits by metal stairs leading to Via del Melo and Via Pinturicchio
Image


Car park
Image


Well lit exit near metal stairs
Image


Exit from car park near metal stairs
Image


Last edited by Nell on Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Edited post to fix forum width
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Meredith, Sollecito: "I have not dumped Amanda, I believe in her innocence" ;) -->> FANPAGE

Attachment:
raffaele-sollecito-a-linea -gialla.jpg


Quote:
QUESTION - When you see someone pointing their finger, does it mean they are lying?

Absolutely not, the average Joe would never do that...But certain ego types do use it. I see it used by powerful men who are used to getting their way and have lied successfully in the past. They use a finger pointing gesture when they are cornered to defend themselves by using it as a counterattack.


Interesting observations about finger pointing
By Patti A. Wood, M.A., CSP

http://www.pattiwood.net/article.asp?PageID=2681


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
I don't understand Sollecito defense team's argument that Amanda wasn't at his house when she sent a message to Patrick:

Quote:
Sollecito's lawyer Giulia Bongiorno said their appeal would also revolve around a text message which Knox claims to have sent while with Sollecito at his house the night of the murder.

"This text message, according to the court's own ruling, was not sent from his house. Therefore the pair were not together," she said.


http://news.msn.co.nz/article.aspx?id=8868482


Quote:
For the lawyer Bongiorno "It is not possible that Raffaele and Amanda were together when the sms was sent by Amanda at 20.35 because the cell phone was out of range of Raffaele's house."


A text message confirms innocence of Sollecito

However, phone records indicate she had sent that message either from his apartment or from the neighborhood of 30 Corso Garibaldi. How does that prove that she wasn't with him at his home at that moment?

Massei, p.322:

Quote:
− 20.35.48 Amanda sent an SMS in reply to Patrick, at No. 338-7195723; the message was sent when the young woman’s mobile phone was in Corso Garibaldi 30 or in the immediate neighbourhood. The cell used, in fact, was that of Via Berardi sector 7


They are clutching at straws. Bongiorno hopes everyone will kindly interpret that line as meaning Knox was in the immediate neighbourhood and not at Sollecito's.

In any case, Sollecito would have to remember if Knox was with him or not. He believes not addressing the issue directly will make the pressing questions go away. This is not so.

Also, Knox is not giving him an alibi by not mentioning him in her first statement. She does in her second 5:45 am statement. She says she is not sure if he was there or not. Hardly an "alibi".

He is making sure she is going down with him.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
Ergon wrote:
.

Hi Ergon I was back in Perugia last week and took a few photos. Walking through the car park I noticed two well lit stairwells to get to the above ground lot. One of the stairs exits by the noisy metal stairs Nara heard running on. It clearly is an easy shortcut to reach Via del Melo and via Pinturicchio. I believe there is also a washroom there.You had asked about the height of the bar to manage access to the garage. It is 34 inch from floor to bottom edge from floor to top 37.
I took a photo last trip and the nail was still there under the window 6 years later. My guess was that the recent demo climb by the professional might have disturbed it. I was right no nail and no recent painting or reno to explain its disappearance. Will post new photo of me in the garage by the bar and the missing nail shot when I get my husband's pics. We were in Rome yesterday or would have attended the latest RS show. Lots has been going on since we left , the tension for the pair must be unbearable.


(Please click on the images to enlarge)

One of two metal exits by metal stairs leading to Via del Melo and Via Pinturicchio
Image


Car park
Image


Well lit exit near metal stairs
Image


Exit from car park near metal stairs
Image


Thank you for the photos malvern. They are very interesting to look at for someone who did not have the opportunity to visit the place.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks for the pictures and measurements Malvern. 34-37 inches, then from that alone, it could be Knox, who's 63-64". However, someone with measuring tools for the CCTV picture?
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

You're welcome. We had planned to see the annual exhibition by gallery owner Rob Smeets who sadly he passed away in May. One of the participating artists had a terrific solo show. I was curious about the car park and whether pedestrians would venture in there if they didn't have a car. The two stairwells make it a quick and easy trip up to the upper streets. I have not made up my mind whether the lone photo of the young woman is Amanda. I do think that would have been the easiest way to run from the cottage and get to the less traveled via del Melo ending up near Grimana.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I'm 5 5' and will post that photo when I see it . My husband took a couple shots but they were quick and I don't know if we were positioned the same way. My 15 year old daughter was impatient and embarrassed of course! so the whole thing was done in a hurry.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Raffaele Sollecito Says Amanda Knox’s Confession Is Nothing To Do With Him

Amanda Knox’s boyfriend at the time of the murder of Meredith Kercher said he had been found guilty by association with the American student.

By Barbie Latza Nadeau

There was plenty of reason to believe that Sollecito would throw Knox under the bus, starting with the fact that Sollecito’s aunt Sara Achille has taken to the Italian airwaves in recent months to say just that. Then there was the carefully leaked “scoop” given to gossip weekly Gente, attributed to and later denied by the Sollecito family, that even laid out just under what terms Sollecito would make his big break from Knox. He has supposedly “just remembered” that Knox had not stayed in his Perugia apartment the night Kercher was murdered, which would strip the American of her alibi.


THE DAILY BEAST
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Raffaele Sollecito distances his appeal from case against Amanda Knox (VIDEO)
By Lizzy Davies

Sollecito's lawyer, Giulia Bongiorno, said the appeal would also focus on a text message which Knox says she sent from her then-boyfriend's home at 8.35pm the evening of the murder.

In its reasoning for the convictions published in April, the Florence court said it was reasonable to believe that Knox had, in fact, sent the message from outside. "According to the sentence, this [SMS] was not written from Raffaele's house. Therefore the two were not together," said Bongiorno.


THE GUARDIAN
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Today's headlines from news outlets around the world:

Belfast Telegraph:
Knox 'gave Sollecito murder alibi'

The Scotsman:
Amanda Knox gave me alibi, says Sollecito

NBC News:
Amanda Knox's Ex: She Gives Me an Alibi

The Independent:
Amanda Knox alibi threatened as Raffaele Sollecito abandons her in ‘new’ defence strategy

Irish Independent:
Amanda Knox's ex-boyfriend now says he was NOT with her for the entire evening when Meredith Kercher was killed

USA Today:
Ex-boyfriend stands by Amanda Knox — sort of

New York Daily News:
Raffaele Sollecito distances self from ex-girlfriend Amanda Knox, says he doesn't know where she was when roommate died

NEWS.COM.AU
Raffaele Sollecito throws doubt on Amanda Knox's alibi for murder of Meredith Kercher

Christian Science Monitor:
Amanda Knox ex-beau wants third trial, provides different alibis

New Zealand Herald:
The end of Amanda Knox's alibi?

Opposing Views:
Amanda Knox Loses Alibi in Meredith Kercher Murder Case

Radar Online:
Rafaelle Sollecito: Amanda Knox Wasn’t With Me The ENTIRE Night Of Meredith Kercher Murder, As She Claims

Daily Beast:
'I Am Not Amanda Knox' ;)

The Times:
Sollecito withdraws Amanda Knox alibi for night of Kercher murder


Fazit (bottom line):
She gives him an alibi, he can no longer be her alibi

Him? A gentleman? Honor bound? "A gentleman knows to let his past make him better not bitter... "(No. 369, The Rules of a Gentleman)
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Today's headlines from news outlets around the world:

Belfast Telegraph:
Knox 'gave Sollecito murder alibi'

The Scotsman:
Amanda Knox gave me alibi, says Sollecito

NBC News:
Amanda Knox's Ex: She Gives Me an Alibi

The Independent:
Amanda Knox alibi threatened as Raffaele Sollecito abandons her in ‘new’ defence strategy

Irish Independent:
Amanda Knox's ex-boyfriend now says he was NOT with her for the entire evening when Meredith Kercher was killed

USA Today:
Ex-boyfriend stands by Amanda Knox — sort of

New York Daily News:
Raffaele Sollecito distances self from ex-girlfriend Amanda Knox, says he doesn't know where she was when roommate died

NEWS.COM.AU
Raffaele Sollecito throws doubt on Amanda Knox's alibi for murder of Meredith Kercher

Christian Science Monitor:
Amanda Knox ex-beau wants third trial, provides different alibis

New Zealand Herald:
The end of Amanda Knox's alibi?

Opposing Views:
Amanda Knox Loses Alibi in Meredith Kercher Murder Case

Radar Online:
Rafaelle Sollecito: Amanda Knox Wasn’t With Me The ENTIRE Night Of Meredith Kercher Murder, As She Claims

Daily Beast:
'I Am Not Amanda Knox' ;)

The Times:
Sollecito withdraws Amanda Knox alibi for night of Kercher murder


Fazit (bottom line):
She gives him an alibi, he can no longer be her alibi

Him? A gentleman? Honor bound? "A gentleman knows to let his past make him better not bitter... "(No. 369, The Rules of a Gentleman)


And nothing yet from Marriott "partners" CBS and ABC... quelle surprise.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox's ex says her version of events is 'imagination and hallucination'
By Ed Payne, CNN
July 1, 2014 -- Updated 1826 GMT (0226 HKT)
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world ... boyfriend/

(including old video with Anderson Cooper and RS from April/Mai this year)
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jackie wrote:
And nothing yet from Marriott "partners" CBS and ABC... quelle surprise.


The past few days I visited Knox's blog just to check if there was any update and I noticed that her comments are stuck at 80. She has not approved comments the past 2-3 days at least.
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Offline Rumpole


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

OT

Oscar's back in court since Monday, live coverage here (at the time of writing this post session 4 of the day just started):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DYQcqqQDEU

Maybe some of you may find this entertaining (or any of the other ad spoofs following this one):

Both our AK and SA's Oscar featured in this old SNL spoof posted several times on the other PMF and probably here, too:

https://screen.yahoo.com/al-pacino-hbo- ... 00742.html
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Francesco Maresca comments on Sollecito's new separation strategy and his press conference

Umbria Left

Quote:
Google Translation

Meredith Kercher's lawyer: "I urge attempts to separate the positions with Amanda"
01/07/2014 - 22:24

FLORENCE -'' It seems to me obvious attempt to urge the defense of procedurally separate positions in the reconstruction of that tragic night.'' And 'the comment of the Kercher family lawyer, the lawyer Francesco Maresca, the statements of Raffaele Sollecito.

''In the appeal - says Maresca - the Court is being asked to examine a location other than the case of Sollecito, who was not present at the crime scene. This attempt seems to me late, as the Supreme Court, and 'a mere legitimacy of the court.'"

Then, referring to the memorial of Amanda,'' the fact that Sollecito was not mentioned - adds Maresca - does not eliminate the existence of the other evidence against him. This reflection on the memorial of Knox was already 'used in a manner very consistent from the Court of Assizes of Perugia to justify the conviction. In parallel to the element of the memorial to load Knox were developed other incriminating evidence of Sollecito. A very similar argument, albeit motivated in a more 'wide, is also done by the Assize Court of Appeal of Florence''.

''In any case - said Maresca - and 'the first time that I happen to see a press conference on the grounds of appeal to the Supreme Court.''
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Offline LUFC1972


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi All. The Mirror have picked up the cocaine dealer story:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ne-3800662
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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

LUFC1972 wrote:
Hi All. The Mirror have picked up the cocaine dealer story:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ne-3800662


I've just seen the article. David Marriott is having another bad day. :D

This reminds of The Long Good Friday - somebody is seriously gunning for Knox, but I'm not sure who it is. I suspect it's Sollecito's family. ff)
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Offline SqueakEMouse


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Machine wrote:
LUFC1972 wrote:
Hi All. The Mirror have picked up the cocaine dealer story:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ne-3800662


I've just seen the article. David Marriott is having another bad day. :D

This reminds of The Long Good Friday - somebody is seriously gunning for Knox, but I'm not sure who it is. I suspect it's Sollecito's family. ff)



''To keep it all incognito Harold, I've arranged to have the body taken away in the ice cream van''
''Oh that's dignified innit. Going out in a raspberry ripple''

The whole sordid lot of them put themselves where they are. With not a single iota of sense, honesty, compassion or integrity between them there are no dignified ways out save full acceptance of what they have each done. They can't handle that; hubris, arrogance, stupidity, greed and good old fear will make them fight to the last and get dragged out screaming. But the days of getting away with hiding the evidence behind a barrage of offensive but ultimately amateurish PR , pretending it's not there and hoping that nobody will notice are drawing to a close.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Frank Sfarzo's take on Raffaele Sollecito press conference:

The press conference was preceded by a particular kind of advertising, with people spreading the rumor that Raffaele had changed his version of the story, saying that Amanda had gone out, and suggested, with other details too, that she was involved in the crime.

That didn’t happen. Raffaele only repeated Bongiorno’s concept that “the court said that she went out”.


WRONGFUL CONVICTION NEWS

Is FS now using the Wrongful Conviction News Blog as a new platform to spread his and FOA's views? ;)
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

FBI Steve Moore discusses Raffaele Sollecito press conference:

Ex-boyfriend threatens Knox's alibi (VIDEO)

An acquaintance of Amanda Knox's ex-boyfriend tells CNN that Sollecito is trying to help Italian police save face.

huh-) nw)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhY_gqlLHeY
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Frank Szarzo's take on Raffaele Sollecito press conference:

The press conference was preceded by a particular kind of advertising, with people spreading the rumor that Raffaele had changed his version of the story, saying that Amanda had gone out, and suggested, with other details too, that she was involved in the crime.

That didn’t happen. Raffaele only repeated Bongiorno’s concept that “the court said that she went out”.


WRONGFUL CONVICTION NEWS

Is FS now using the Wrongful Conviction News Blog as a new platform to spread his and FOA's views? ;)


The Wrongful Convictions website is connected to Bruce Fischer. He felt the need to bring Sfarzo back on board after the Sfarzogate debacle.

Sfarzo and Fischer are both frauds.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
FBI Steve Moore discusses Raffaele Sollecito press conference:

Ex-boyfriend threatens Knox's alibi (VIDEO)

An acquaintance of Amanda Knox's ex-boyfriend tells CNN that Sollecito is trying to help Italian police save face.

huh-) nw)

Why do they keep putting such an anti-Italian guy on CNN? Embarrassing. No, RS did not say he 'knows' Knox is innocent. Whatever.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
guermantes wrote:
FBI Steve Moore discusses Raffaele Sollecito press conference:

Ex-boyfriend threatens Knox's alibi (VIDEO)

An acquaintance of Amanda Knox's ex-boyfriend tells CNN that Sollecito is trying to help Italian police save face.

huh-) nw)

Why do they keep putting such an anti-Italian guy on CNN? Embarrassing. No, RS did not say he 'knows' Knox is innocent. Whatever.


Annella and others tweet the same nonsense, quoting Sollecito as saying he knows her to be innocent even though he did not say that. He confirmed there is room for doubt by using the word believe.

They also have a problem with Bongiorno defining the night as beginning around 11 pm.

Cristina Magnani is tweeting the link to a youtube video with a short portion of the press conference. The person who recorded that video was sitting in the crowd and it shows two journalists whispering to each other while Giulia Bongiorno speaks and shaking their heads.

Bongiorno speaks at press conference
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Frank Sfarzo's take on Raffaele Sollecito press conference:

The press conference was preceded by a particular kind of advertising, with people spreading the rumor that Raffaele had changed his version of the story, saying that Amanda had gone out, and suggested, with other details too, that she was involved in the crime.

That didn’t happen. Raffaele only repeated Bongiorno’s concept that “the court said that she went out”.


WRONGFUL CONVICTION NEWS

Is FS now using the Wrongful Conviction News Blog as a new platform to spread his and FOA's views? ;)


Note the freemason logo Frank signs off with, a pretty funny way of sending out the secret handshake SOS thingy. I've been mentioning the masonic occult background to this case for some time, but it usually elicits a huh? from our North American brethren, so, I desist. But, I do agree that nobody schmoozes like Frank, he may even believe in some of that stuff. I did see some interesting literature on one of his host's book shelf, and if an American judge should turn out to be a mason, well, there's no better way to progress to a mid-level position. (Having the right blood lines is a lot better :)
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:47 am   Post subject: POLL   

And this brings to an end PMF's very first Poll - WHO WILL CRACK FIRST? Which asked which of our suspects, or none of them, would crack first and drop the others in it.

In our poll, 19% of you said it would be Rudy Guede. 11% of you said Amanda Knox and 31% said none of them would. If you were one of the 39% that said it would be Raffaele Sollecito, then congratulations, you are one of our poll winners :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Frank Sfarzo's take on Raffaele Sollecito press conference:

The press conference was preceded by a particular kind of advertising, with people spreading the rumor that Raffaele had changed his version of the story, saying that Amanda had gone out, and suggested, with other details too, that she was involved in the crime.

That didn’t happen. Raffaele only repeated Bongiorno’s concept that “the court said that she went out”.


WRONGFUL CONVICTION NEWS

Is FS now using the Wrongful Conviction News Blog as a new platform to spread his and FOA's views? ;)


Note the freemason logo Frank signs off with, a pretty funny way of sending out the secret handshake SOS thingy. I've been mentioning the masonic occult background to this case for some time, but it usually elicits a huh? from our North American brethren, so, I desist. But, I do agree that nobody schmoozes like Frank, he may even believe in some of that stuff. I did see some interesting literature on one of his host's book shelf, and if an American judge should turn out to be a mason, well, there's no better way to progress to a mid-level position. (Having the right blood lines is a lot better :)



Italy is riddled with freemasonry. But then, it wouldn't surprise me if a fraud like Sfarzo wasn't even a member, but would happily use their symbolism in an attempt to garner their support.

_________________
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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Daily Mail has now published the story about Amanda Knox's alleged links to a cocaine dealer:

Foxy Knoxy had links to cocaine dealer and spoke to him in days before and after murder of Briton Meredith Kercher, Italian prosecutors claim

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... claim.html

David Marriott is going to have another bad day. b-((
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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
guermantes wrote:
FBI Steve Moore discusses Raffaele Sollecito press conference:

Ex-boyfriend threatens Knox's alibi (VIDEO)

An acquaintance of Amanda Knox's ex-boyfriend tells CNN that Sollecito is trying to help Italian police save face.

huh-) nw)

Why do they keep putting such an anti-Italian guy on CNN? Embarrassing. No, RS did not say he 'knows' Knox is innocent. Whatever.


I noticed that Steve Moore falsely claimed that Sollecito said he knows Knox is innocent. This just highlights the dishonesty of the man.
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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Simon Hattenstone from The Guardian admits that convicted sex offenders Rolf Harris, Jimmy Savile and Max Clifford all pulled the wool over his eyes.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... CMP=twt_gu

He forgot to include Amanda Knox in that list of convicted sex offenders.
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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

There's an important Twitter storm going at the moment. Please tweet and retweet my tweets. Thanks.

You can follow me on Twitter:

@harryrag
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Machine, I just want to say, thanks for all the hard work you do!!!

_________________
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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
The Machine, I just want to say, thanks for all the hard work you do!!!


Thanks for all your hard work over the years too. I'd also like to thank all the other posters at .net who have fought the good fight.

It's been a great three days. :D


Last edited by The Machine on Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Independent has just published an article about Amanda Knox's connection with a convicted cocaine dealer:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 82407.html

Hopefully the media in Seattle won't allow David Marriott to suppress the truth about this matter for much longer.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Fast Pete on ORG calls it like I see it:

Quote:
Re: XXXV. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 27, 2014 -

Post by Fast Pete » 03 Jul 2014, 14:56

Quote:
TheConte wrote: Now that the dust has settled I think yesterday's press conference was an odd move on the Bongiorno/Sollecito side.

They didn't talk about any of the significant evidence or reasoning in Nencini's report, but instead focused on two minor pieces of evidence against Konx. At the same time stressing that they are not "unloading Konx like a barrel".

Bongiorno has stated that she thinks this is a "trial by media", does she think she can use the media to help Raffaele? Or does she fully understand that this press conference won't make a blind bit of difference, but she's charging Raffles for these appearances? Or is it meant to create support for Raff when the verdict is confirmed?

And why pick two bits of evidence that supports Nencini's reasoning around Amanda's guilt, but wasn't used in connection with Knife boy?

Unless it is a funding ploy by Bongiorno, I really don't see the point of this press conference

N.

P.S. Raffles' family are still retweeting comments about Konx being a liar and seem convinced that she is guilty.


Maybe think of it this way. This was not a murder between three rational equals. It was an escalating Lord of the Flies pack attack led by an angry coked-up queen bee who thought Meredith had just been awarded her job at the bar just when her savings (and RS's bank balance) were running low due to high coke costs.

Maybe begun when all three were coking-up at the kitchen table and Meredith came out and protested.

One queen bee - and two weak dupes who did not know they had signed up for murder and were stunned when the queen bee furiously plunged the big knife home in Meredith's neck and want that somehow to come across.

So the weak dupes have been openly sulking and standoffish for seven years with the only exceptions being by RS in 2012-13 when he thought he was home free.

Both dupes have been escalating as $$$ and people for Knox escalated and support to face down extradition seemed to be getting to critical mass. Yesterdays show looks to have been toned down, maybe after desperate calls from Seattle, maybe after financial help to pay Bongiorno was promised.

Sollecito has several times lately spoken out more strongly, without the hedging about Knox still being innocent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXuEWwRl5Og

Peter Quennell
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito's privileges from Facebook page Honor Bound removed - and later reinstated


There is tension between Amanda Knox supporters and Raffaele Sollecito.

Cristina Magnani reported on Twitter that Raffaele Sollecito's privileges as Administrator from his Facebook page Honor Bound were removed.

Image


Some time later she deleted the above tweet and informed her followers that Sollecito's Administrator privileges had been reinstated.

Image


Apparently Raffaele Sollecito's aunt Sara Achille managed the Facebook page Honor Bound but she was removed suddenly without notice, after supporting her nephew's separation strategy vocally and against Knox supporters wishes. Sara Achille made this situation public and her/Sollecito's Administrator privileges were reinstated.

This was posted by Sara Achille on Facebook:

Image

Image

It is now confirmed that the Facebook page Honor Bound is being administered by 'Americans'.

Sources:
Facebook page 'Honor Bound'

Facebook page of Raffaele Sollecito
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Did Amanda Knox drag Raffaele Sollecito down with her?
Jun 23, 2014 at 6:11 PM PDT
By Chelsea Hoffman
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... n-with-her


Always enjoy Chelsea. Her humor is dryer than than the Sahara...
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Thanks, Nell.

But, what we really need is Raffaele Sollecito himself to speak out and clarify his position on his alibi...was Amanda Knox with him all evening and night of 1 December 2007 or not...yes or no?

His lawyers can spin all they want, but he really needs to answer this question instead of hiding behind some fabled Naruto cartoon and sly comments by his family and cronies about how it might be Knox on the garage CCTV tape.


I think it would be wise for Raf to speak in front of the judge, altho we would all love to pull the words out of him. I predict surprises.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I was foolish enough to venture over to IIP for a quick look. Nervous chatter about inane info bits. Let me see,,they blamed an expensive anti Amanda PR campaign, and too, Perugina Chocolates (?) and every little detail that surely proves Amandas innocence. They also stopped just short of calling Aunt Sara crazy.

Best wishes, Tamale

pp-(
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

tamale wrote:
I was foolish enough to venture over to IIP for a quick look. Nervous chatter about inane info bits. Let me see,,they blamed an expensive anti Amanda PR campaign, and too, Perugina Chocolates (?) and every little detail that surely proves Amandas innocence. They also stopped just short of calling Aunt Sara crazy.

Best wishes, Tamale

pp-(


No, no. They did call her crazy, on IIP/IA and on Twitter.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Sollecito's privileges from Facebook page Honor Bound removed - and later reinstated


There is tension between Amanda Knox supporters and Raffaele Sollecito.

Cristina Magnani reported on Twitter that Raffaele Sollecito's privileges as Administrator from his Facebook page Honor Bound were removed.

Image


Some time later she deleted the above tweet and informed her followers that Sollecito's Administrator privileges had been reinstated.

Image


Apparently Raffaele Sollecito's aunt Sara Achille managed the Facebook page Honor Bound but she was removed suddenly without notice, after supporting her nephew's separation strategy vocally and against Knox supporters wishes. Sara Achille made this situation public and her/Sollecito's Administrator privileges were reinstated.

This was posted by Sara Achille on Facebook:

Image

Image

It is now confirmed that the Facebook page Honor Bound is being administered by 'Americans'.

Sources:
Facebook page 'Honor Bound'

Facebook page of Raffaele Sollecito


Americans and guns, Americans jumping the gun: Sure, the "Americans" who set up those pages temporarily removed RS when he and his family strayed from the path they set out for him. I'm sure a letter from John Kelly reminded them he has certain rights to his name and book title.

Remember that it was Chris Mellas who registered raffaelesollecito dot org originally, and who can forget Frank Sfarzo and his Perugia Shock, also set up in Sweden with 'American' backers? The many Amanda Knox Facebook pages set up by groupies who had to be told to desist, and the original Twitter accounts, since disavowed?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Just to clarify:

These messages regarding the removed privileges have been posted on Facebook in the past 24 hours. I do not know exactly when Sara Achille was removed as administrator from the Facebook group. From the screenshot it appears she might have been stripped of her privileges as early as May, but I am not sure about that. I believe the valid date of the messages from the Facebook chat we see in the screenshot is the one stated under the chat, not above, but I am not certain. It appears to me that this action was taken after the press conference, otherwise we would have to assume she knew about this for quite some time and did not make it public.

Credit for the first screenshot from my comment above goes to Jack, as I have not been able to retrieve this tweet myself, it had already been removed by Cristina Magnani.

I was able to get the other screenshots from Cristina Magnani's Twitter timeline and from Raffaele Sollecito's Facebook page.

There is more. Follow the links posted above if you are interested in reading the comments.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Apparently, Sollecito has hired a PR agent in Washington named Chelece Tim and the FOAKers are very upset about it.

_________________
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Offline Stan


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Apparently, Sollecito has hired a PR agent in Washington named Chelece Tim and the FOAKers are very upset about it.


It will be interesting to monitor Raff's GoFund me account once the FOA realise that they are probably paying for his PR Mua-)
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Apparently, Sollecito has hired a PR agent in Washington named Chelece Tim and the FOAKers are very upset about it.


Hiring a PR agent is probably not as much the problem as it is that he is located in Washington. That means all the details they have been desperately trying to hide from the American public, like the non-existent alibi, will be released if Sollecito deems it necessary to further his own campaign.

Even though the Knox supporters are clinging to Sollecito's phrase "I believe her to be innocent", it's not quite the same as confirming with certainty that Knox stayed home with him all night. He did not do that and he won't.

This has become far more interesting than I thought.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stan wrote:
Michael wrote:
Apparently, Sollecito has hired a PR agent in Washington named Chelece Tim and the FOAKers are very upset about it.


It will be interesting to monitor Raff's GoFund me account once the FOA realise that they are probably paying for his PR Mua-)


I don't expect the donations for Raffaele Sollecito to skyrocket after he sabotaged Knox's alibi. To the contrary, Karen Parker Pruett a.k.a. KayPea has announced on Bruce Fischer's forum that all fundraisers for him have been halted because of his choice to opt for a separate defence strategy.

So far he's made $41,000+. Not bad for a rapist and murderer.
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael

Now Giobbi is translated I wonder if you could repost your excellent take on the cats blood downstairs? We could use it now.

Here attached with excellent translation by the excellent ZiaK is all of Giobbi, definitely a two edged sword kind of guy so we havent posted the whole thing.

Ficcara, Zugarini and Napoleoni translations are done and on TJMK but not yet up on the Wiki and several others and the 17 Dec interrogation of Knox are in the works.

Pete


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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Apparently, Sollecito has hired a PR agent in Washington named Chelece Tim and the FOAKers are very upset about it.


Hiring a PR agent is probably not as much the problem as it is that he is located in Washington. That means all the details they have been desperately trying to hide from the American public, like the non-existent alibi, will be released if Sollecito deems it necessary to further his own campaign.

Even though the Knox supporters are clinging to Sollecito's phrase "I believe her to be innocent", it's not quite the same as confirming with certainty that Knox stayed home with him all night. He did not do that and he won't.

This has become far more interesting than I thought.


Is Sollecito again trying to get refuge in the US?

Chelece Tim in DC. And of course John Q Kelly is here in NYC. Those are two cities to have a good presence in going forward.

As Robert Barnett has gone silent the only Knox presence seems to be angry calls from D Marriott from afar.

I wonder what the two book publishers are making of this.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Fast Pete wrote:
Michael

Now Giobbi is translated I wonder if you could repost your excellent take on the cats blood downstairs? We could use it now.

Here attached with excellent translation by the excellent ZiaK is all of Giobbi, definitely a two edged sword kind of guy so we havent posted the whole thing.

Ficcara, Zugarini and Napoleoni translations are done and on TJMK but not yet up on the Wiki and several others and the 17 Dec interrogation of Knox are in the works.

Pete


Hi Pete,

Thanks for the Giobbi translation.

As for my piece on the cat's blood downstairs, and I'm just going from memory here, it was a speculation piece written a very long time ago, back on the TCWMB I think, long before the trial and the full facts had emerged. I would think therefore, it's very out of date and as such, would be rather off the mark and of limited value. I don't even have a copy of it anymore, it (along with a lot of other things) was on the hard drive I had that blew up and was lost. It may be that it can still be found on the TCWMB via the Way Back Machine, but if not, it's lost.

Thank you for all the great work on TJMK!!! :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stan wrote:
Michael wrote:
Apparently, Sollecito has hired a PR agent in Washington named Chelece Tim and the FOAKers are very upset about it.


It will be interesting to monitor Raff's GoFund me account once the FOA realise that they are probably paying for his PR Mua-)



Hi Stan. Yes, the irony is sweet indeed.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Fast Pete wrote:
Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Apparently, Sollecito has hired a PR agent in Washington named Chelece Tim and the FOAKers are very upset about it.


Hiring a PR agent is probably not as much the problem as it is that he is located in Washington. That means all the details they have been desperately trying to hide from the American public, like the non-existent alibi, will be released if Sollecito deems it necessary to further his own campaign.

Even though the Knox supporters are clinging to Sollecito's phrase "I believe her to be innocent", it's not quite the same as confirming with certainty that Knox stayed home with him all night. He did not do that and he won't.

This has become far more interesting than I thought.


Is Sollecito again trying to get refuge in the US?

Chelece Tim in DC. And of course John Q Kelly is here in NYC. Those are two cities to have a good presence in going forward.

As Robert Barnett has gone silent the only Knox presence seems to be angry calls from D Marriott from afar.

I wonder what the two book publishers are making of this.



No, he's realised that the USA door is forever closed to him. He has though, I think, come to realise that he can do Knox and her supporters great damage by having an agent based there. Up until now, he's placed all of his trust in the FOAKer campaign and has allowed them to dictate the tune. Too late, he's come to realise that it's totally failed him and has, again too late, decided to take pro-active action of his own.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I just want to say, I think much of the Sollecito family's anger with Knox and the FOAKers, is that they were convinced by Knox's people to keep their defences entwined and that combined with Sollecito's top defence team and the FOAKer's aggressive PR campaign, an acquittal was assured. Too late, they have discovered the failure of those promises and they're not happy. I also think that the Sollecito's believe there is a very strong chance that Sollecito may find himself in jail alone as the application for Knox's extradition may fail. They don't read PMF, only the mainstream media, so they are not to know that the idea of Knox beating extradition is all pie in the sky. It angers them greatly that he may find himself in jail alone when they see Knox as being the architect of Meredith's murder. They feel that he is essentially innocent, only guilty insofar that he was lead astray by her.

_________________
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A very interesting talk at the Rotary Club in Todi, organized by RS agents Delitti & Mistri. See the speakers list: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 322&type=1


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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Apparently, Sollecito has hired a PR agent in Washington named Chelece Tim and the FOAKers are very upset about it.


Hiring a PR agent is probably not as much the problem as it is that he is located in Washington. That means all the details they have been desperately trying to hide from the American public, like the non-existent alibi, will be released if Sollecito deems it necessary to further his own campaign.

Even though the Knox supporters are clinging to Sollecito's phrase "I believe her to be innocent", it's not quite the same as confirming with certainty that Knox stayed home with him all night. He did not do that and he won't.

This has become far more interesting than I thought.



I'm pretty sure Bon Giorno said in a presser IF Amanda made a confession on the 5 th she didn't include RS. My take on it is the Sollecito's are not guaranteeing she is innocent , only that they would be surprised to learn of her involvement. But as the details trickle in they are forced to concede RS had not idea what she was up to including the time of the murder. The family have been promoting neg comments including liking a cocaine link to AK. So let his circle raise the question whether it was Amanda and Guede .
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Fast Pete wrote:
Michael

Now Giobbi is translated I wonder if you could repost your excellent take on the cats blood downstairs? We could use it now.

Here attached with excellent translation by the excellent ZiaK is all of Giobbi, definitely a two edged sword kind of guy so we havent posted the whole thing.

Ficcara, Zugarini and Napoleoni translations are done and on TJMK but not yet up on the Wiki and several others and the 17 Dec interrogation of Knox are in the works.

Pete


Hi Pete,

Thanks for the Giobbi translation.

As for my piece on the cat's blood downstairs, and I'm just going from memory here, it was a speculation piece written a very long time ago, back on the TCWMB I think, long before the trial and the full facts had emerged. I would think therefore, it's very out of date and as such, would be rather off the mark and of limited value. I don't even have a copy of it anymore, it (along with a lot of other things) was on the hard drive I had that blew up and was lost. It may be that it can still be found on the TCWMB via the Way Back Machine, but if not, it's lost.

Thank you for all the great work on TJMK!!! :)


Hi Michael:

It would not have been earlier than 2009. I'll search. Its significant now because Giobbi goes on about blood EVERYWHERE in the flat downstairs. As you recall the cops all testified before him but Stefanoni who came later had a chance to have the last word so no huge new conspiracies grew from that.

Quote:
Stefanoni: With regard to blood and hairlike-structures which we also have in common with animals, it happens, but fairly ... let us say [12] frequently, and even hairlike-structures, because dogs and cats are the most ... let’s say that these [are] the most normal producers of evidence/exhibits of a biological nature, since animals live with man, at least in an apartment, [or] in a car. One recovers hairlike-structures [whose origin] can’t preliminarily be determined by the naked eye as being human or animal and therefore have to be analysed…

Comodi: Did that very thing happen also during this investigation?

Stefanoi: Yes, unfortunately it also happened in this case that a cat that drove us mad because initially, during the on-the-spot investigation, the investigation in the house on via della Pergola, thus the house where the body was found, unfortunately we were badly misled, almost made fools of by the fact that a cat - obviously wounded, had got into the let-us-say flat below the victim’s flat. Obviously there was glass shards, broken in short, that were produced in entering the flat because the keys couldn’t be found I know. And therefore this cat, unfortunately, was hurt and had left blood all over the place, obviously making us carry out an absolutely crazy sampling job because we thought that somebody had clearly ... in short, I don’t know, [something] linked to the crime, and therefore had lost blood. But instead, it was actually a cat.


Giobbi also says he orchestrated the 6/7 Nov "interrogation" of Knox but not one person there who testified agreed.

Pete
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:24 pm   Post subject: RABIES OUTBREAK AT AMANDA KNOX FORUM   

Source

Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Quote:
Post by Alex_K » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:04 am

Let's comment on The Independent's reprint of The Mirror's smear.

I think it's time for an all-out media counteroffensive focused on exposing the identities of Harry Rag and others, their dirty deeds and their unseemly personalities. The advantage in terms of human capital is on our side. We have PhDs in hard science while they have devious tabloid journalists.
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Fast Pete wrote:
Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Apparently, Sollecito has hired a PR agent in Washington named Chelece Tim and the FOAKers are very upset about it.


Hiring a PR agent is probably not as much the problem as it is that he is located in Washington. That means all the details they have been desperately trying to hide from the American public, like the non-existent alibi, will be released if Sollecito deems it necessary to further his own campaign.

Even though the Knox supporters are clinging to Sollecito's phrase "I believe her to be innocent", it's not quite the same as confirming with certainty that Knox stayed home with him all night. He did not do that and he won't.

This has become far more interesting than I thought.


Is Sollecito again trying to get refuge in the US?

Chelece Tim in DC. And of course John Q Kelly is here in NYC. Those are two cities to have a good presence in going forward.

As Robert Barnett has gone silent the only Knox presence seems to be angry calls from D Marriott from afar.

I wonder what the two book publishers are making of this.



No, he's realised that the USA door is forever closed to him. He has though, I think, come to realise that he can do Knox and her supporters great damage by having an agent based there. Up until now, he's placed all of his trust in the FOAKer campaign and has allowed them to dictate the tune. Too late, he's come to realise that it's totally failed him and has, again too late, decided to take pro-active action of his own.


Perhaps hes been reading his own book!! He needs to now he is back in the dock. That will startle him. He never sounded like he knew what was in it before.

Written entirely on the west coast, by Gumbel, with FOA shoveling stuff that embraced Knox in. That flew in the face of four years of he and Bongiorno keeping Knox coldly at arms length.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:26 pm   Post subject: MORE RABIES PART II   

Source

Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Post by MichaelB » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:23 am

Quote:
Regarding the marriage proposal, it was Kelsey Kay who went public with it in January when she sold her story to Radar Online. At the time it sounded so ridiculous she had to be making it up. But it was confirmed, he really did ask Amanda to marry him last year totally clueless about the laws and how illegal green card scams are or even considered that she's in a long term relationship with another guy. Was she suppose to kick him out and he moved in?

I doubt his family had any idea he was in the US trying to find a pretend wife and would have told him to snap out of it if they had of known. From what I've heard they think it's all some big conspiracy and he was set-up.

The Kelsey Kay girl was clearly an opportunist wanting to cash in but I think there's some truth to what she revealed about her conversations with him and how he reacted to being told no.

She talks about it in the video here. http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... h-kercher/

Like I said, all of this trashing of Amanda since the Nencini Report comes from his people. They've been plotting it for months and I guess there'll be more to come. It's obvious from that twitter link posted up thread they are working with the guilters now to spread lies.

George Barwood: Leave Facebook Petition http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/g ... e_petition
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Offline Rumpole


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
A very interesting talk at the Rotary Club in Todi, organized by RS agents Delitti & Mistri. See the speakers list: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 322&type=1


Interesting. In addition to Anderson, Sfarzo and Giuseppe Castellini, one of AK's medical experts, Walter Patumi, is going to be present, too. If anyone wants to read his Massei testimony - in Italian only so far - it's available on the Wiki here:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/W ... _Testimony


Last edited by Rumpole on Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Fast Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:32 pm   Post subject: Re: RABIES OUTBREAK AT AMANDA KNOX FORUM   

Ergon wrote:
Source

Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Quote:
Post by Alex_K » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:04 am

Let's comment on The Independent's reprint of The Mirror's smear.

I think it's time for an all-out media counteroffensive focused on exposing the identities of Harry Rag and others, their dirty deeds and their unseemly personalities. The advantage in terms of human capital is on our side. We have PhDs in hard science while they have devious tabloid journalists.


The guy does not know his enemy.

"Human capital" is not on their side. Only a few sleazy grandstanders who dont know the facts, dont read Italian, dont know Italian law.

Example here: http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php ... es_kassin/

We correctly pass on what countless far more plugged in experts and lawyers in Italy have said, and we have many experts, lawyers and even judges post and read.

Example here: http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tj ... _innocent/
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:02 pm   Post subject: THE FACEBOOK FALLOUT   

Always interesting to observe, when murderer's enablers have a falling out. But to clarify what happened on Facebook, I went to Raffaele Sollecito's FB page (his own, not the Honor Bound one) Source

Quote:
Sara Achille posted to‎ Raffaele Sollecito
Yesterday.
Non consentiremo ad alcuno di tentare di condizionare la vita di Raffaele Sollecito e di mettere a rischio la sua GIUSTA libertà

We will not allow any attempt to influence the lives of Raffaele Sollecito and jeopardise its fair freedom (Translated by Bing)


Quote:
Hildegard Conradi Sara I Don' t understand what happened? Why Would anybody remove you as an admin

Yesterday at 8:30am
..
Sara Achille Ah! Non lo so.chiedilo agli americani che vogliono essere i padroni della vita di RaffaeleAh! I do not know. ask the Americans who want to be the masters of the life of Raphael (Translated by Bing)


Quote:
Sarah Snyder Are you going to let these LIES allowed on your page Raffaele Sollecito? And how should those who have volunteered their time for 2 years on your page feel about that.

Truth is Sara was added by us only a short few months ago, and then removed when she lost our trust. It was never Raffaele who added Aunt Sara by mistake. That mistake was our doing.
6 hours ago ·
..
Magnani Cristina Raffaele needs tranquility now. He doesn't justify to anyone. Pls let him concentrate on his graduation project. Thank you


Quote:
Sara Achille
Yesterday.
Raffaele mi aveva nominata amministratrice. Ora non lo sono più. Chi mi ha eliminata? So di certo che non lo ha fatto Raffaele
21 maggio 2014 — with Raffaele Sollecito

Raffaele had me appointed Managing Director. Now I'm not anymore. Who deleted me? I know for sure that they did Raffaele May 21, 2014 (Translated by Bing)


Interesting, this public spat, with deeper currents running underneath...
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

But yes, the chickens are running around, heads cut off, with no little help from the Sollecitos. However, the Chelece Tim rumour sourced by the FOA has not been confirmed, just an amateur conspirologist who when asked to provide a citation that RS hired a PR agent suggests the querent use Google! Not only is the person I found NOT working for a PR agency, it looks like she is just a 'fan' of Raffaele.

Which is what makes Bruce Fischer's website such a pernicious influence on this case. It attracts the lonely dweeb who needs something to feed his or her paranoid fantasies about authority and whatever other father substitute they got going, and if they remained there that would be fine, but when they stalk strangers that is crossing a line. No wonder the Sollecitos blame their shenanigans on his present straits, though of course ignoring his own actions.

And now, one of those dweebs suggests 'exposing' the Kerchers. Nutcases!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
I just want to say, I think much of the Sollecito family's anger with Knox and the FOAKers, is that they were convinced by Knox's people to keep their defences entwined and that combined with Sollecito's top defence team and the FOAKer's aggressive PR campaign, an acquittal was assured. Too late, they have discovered the failure of those promises and they're not happy. I also think that the Sollecito's believe there is a very strong chance that Sollecito may find himself in jail alone as the application for Knox's extradition may fail. They don't read PMF, only the mainstream media, so they are not to know that the idea of Knox beating extradition is all pie in the sky. It angers them greatly that he may find himself in jail alone when they see Knox as being the architect of Meredith's murder. They feel that he is essentially innocent, only guilty insofar that he was lead astray by her.


I share your opinion about the Sollecitos.

If we assume that money has changed hands - and I believe that's a real possibility given the not so independent experts being friendly with the Sollecitos and the jailhouse witness who claimed to have been offered money in exchange for his testimony - it seems logical to me that this kind of arrangement would have been negotiated and probably paid for by the Sollecitos.

Imagine their disappointment seing the fling who instigated the murder walk free while Raffaele Solleito will spend the best years of his life in prison.

I also speculate that Raffaele Sollecito might be disillusioned with Amanda Knox because she turned him down when he asked her to marry him. He probably thought of this as only a small favour to ask given his situation, but she turned him down nonetheless. That must have been a sobering experience.

I believe things changed after that. It is possible that what we are witnessing right now is an act of retaliation.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

They're retaliating, all right, while Raffaele pretends innocence and support for Amanda, but reminding us she placed herself the scene of the crime. All that matters is the Supreme Court.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:04 pm   Post subject: Re: THE FACEBOOK FALLOUT   

Ergon wrote:
Always interesting to observe, when murderer's enablers have a falling out. But to clarify what happened on Facebook, I went to Raffaele Sollecito's FB page (his own, not the Honor Bound one) Source

--- snip ---

Quote:
Sarah Snyder Are you going to let these LIES allowed on your page Raffaele Sollecito? And how should those who have volunteered their time for 2 years on your page feel about that.

Truth is Sara was added by us only a short few months ago, and then removed when she lost our trust. It was never Raffaele who added Aunt Sara by mistake. That mistake was our doing.
6 hours ago ·
..


--- snap ---

Interesting, this public spat, with deeper currents running underneath...


I must say, I find it quite shocking to find Sarah Snyder publicly admitting that she (they = IA/IIP) control/s the Facebook page Honor Bound.

They also control the Twitter account Honor Bound.

Raffaele Sollecito should file a complaint with Facebook and Twitter and take control of both user accounts. I understand Sara Achille's outrage over the situation.

As usual, Bruce Fischer and cohorts are sailing close to the wind.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
They're retaliating, all right, while Raffaele pretends innocence and support for Amanda, but reminding us she placed herself the scene of the crime. All that matters is the Supreme Court.


Absolutely correct.

While it does not matter in court, the damage to Knox's public image is real. It was one thing to portray the Kerchers as being misled by the courts, Lumumba being greedy and vindictive, while Guede has been labelled a drifter, but now the person pointing out her flaws is her former ally. According to her, he is a nice guy and has credibility.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:52 pm   Post subject: Re: THE FACEBOOK FALLOUT   

Nell wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Always interesting to observe, when murderer's enablers have a falling out. But to clarify what happened on Facebook, I went to Raffaele Sollecito's FB page (his own, not the Honor Bound one) Source

--- snip ---

Quote:
Sarah Snyder Are you going to let these LIES allowed on your page Raffaele Sollecito? And how should those who have volunteered their time for 2 years on your page feel about that.

Truth is Sara was added by us only a short few months ago, and then removed when she lost our trust. It was never Raffaele who added Aunt Sara by mistake. That mistake was our doing.
6 hours ago ·
..


--- snap ---

Interesting, this public spat, with deeper currents running underneath...


I must say, I find it quite shocking to find Sarah Snyder publicly admitting that she (they = IA/IIP) control/s the Facebook page Honor Bound.

They also control the Twitter account Honor Bound.

Raffaele Sollecito should file a complaint with Facebook and Twitter and take control of both user accounts. I understand Sara Achille's outrage over the situation.

As usual, Bruce Fischer and cohorts are sailing close to the wind.


The 'volunteers' control it? No wonder it seems like the inmates are running the asylum :)
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Well, they control it as agents acting for Chris Mellas.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Keep in mind that Cristina Magnani says it was RAFFAELE who was removed as admin of the Honor Bound FB page, while Sarah Snyder says otherwise. Her latest tweet: Source says

Quote:
Cristina Magnani ‏@cri_magnani · 4h
#RaffaeleSollecito: #AmandaKnox nel suo Memoriale dove dice che sente la povera Mez urlare non mi colloca in nessun momento sulla scena.

Translated from Italian by Bing
#RaffaeleSollecito: #AmandaKnox (in her) Memoir where (s)he says (S)he hears the poor Mez scream (he is ) no time on the (scene).


And so their little side war goes on.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Bruce Fischer is justifying himself on Facebook, saying the Honor Bound Facebook page was created by him to 'promote' Raffaele Sollecito's book.

In my opinion, Sollecito should not only be an admin of the Facebook page promoting his own book, he should be the owner, not Bruce Fischer who has nothing to do with his book and does not hold the copyright.

Image
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Well one of them is lying anyway, and I think I know who :)

Quote:
Sara Achille
Yesterday.
Raffaele mi aveva nominata amministratrice. Ora non lo sono più. Chi mi ha eliminata? So di certo che non lo ha fatto Raffaele
21 maggio 2014 — with Raffaele Sollecito.

Raffaele had me appointed Managing Director. Now I'm not anymore. Who deleted me? I know for sure that they did Raffaele May 21, 2014 (Translated by Bing)
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Oh dear, this argument is going to rage ever more out of control.

But, here are the facts: Raffaele fully supports his family's bad mouthing of Amanda Knox on the social networks, his silence in the face of it tells us that. Just as Amanda Knox fully supports her followers online bullying of the Kerchers by her silence. It is nice, therefore, to see some of these offenders getting a good taste of their own medicine...and by the look of how things are going there's much more to come. Karma, indeed!!!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Keep in mind that Cristina Magnani says it was RAFFAELE who was removed as admin of the Honor Bound FB page, while Sarah Snyder says otherwise. Her latest tweet: Source says

Quote:
Cristina Magnani ‏@cri_magnani · 4h
#RaffaeleSollecito: #AmandaKnox nel suo Memoriale dove dice che sente la povera Mez urlare non mi colloca in nessun momento sulla scena.

Translated from Italian by Bing
#RaffaeleSollecito: #AmandaKnox (in her) Memoir where (s)he says (S)he hears the poor Mez scream (he is ) no time on the (scene).


And so their little side war goes on.


I noticed that too.

The important information we can take from this dispute is that Injustice Anywhere's admins admit they control the accounts related to Sollecito's book and that they removed privileges from Sollecito and/or Sollecito's family members after he opted for a separate defence and refused to corroborate Knox's alibi.

It is brazen and also stupid to admit in public that is their intention to limit Sollecito's power over a website that is directly related to his own product and intellectual property. It's not exactly a fan page, a visitor would assume the website is being maintained by it's rightful owner.

Furthermore, Sarah Snyder and Bruce Fischer cite trust issues as reason for denying Raffaele Sollecito and/or his appointed admin the right to manage the page.

I have my doubts Raffaele Sollecito is an admin of the FB Honor Bound page. If he is, the first thing he should do is remove any privileges of the remaining admins and substitute them for people he trusts.

Here is a table that explains what roles are available for Facebook pages and I assume Bruce Fischer and Sarah Snyder have never given any of the Sollecitos admin status. I suspect they were given editor or moderator roles while Sarah Snyder and Bruce Fischer kept full control.

Image
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

LUFC1972 wrote:
Hi All. The Mirror have picked up the cocaine dealer story:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ne-3800662


Am I mistaken or did I see your name on the front page under 'upcoming birthdays' a few days ago?

A belated Happy Birthday from me!

mul-)
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

WORLD EXCLUSIVE PICTURES: Why did Foxy give her boyfriend $100 in cash? Tearful Amanda Knox's secret tryst with lover, days after Italian ex contradicts her account of night of the murder

* Amanda Knox, 26, photographed meeting American boyfriend James Terrano in a Seattle park on Wednesday
* University of Washington student was seen sobbing and speaking animatedly to Terrano before pair shared hug
* At one point, she was also pictured reaching into purse and handing boyfriend what appeared to be $100 in cash
* Came just days after Knox's Italian ex-boyfriend contradicted her account of night of Meredith Kercher's murder
* Knox and former partner Rafaelle Sollecito were re-convicted in January of Miss Kercher's killing in Perugia, Italy
* But Rafaelle Sollecito's lawyer has now said he cannot be sure Knox was with him for first part of evening in 2007
* Earlier this week, it was also reported that Italian prosecutors are preparing to use Knox's alleged ties to a cocaine dealer to have her extradited
* Miss Knox, who has been in the U.S. since 2011, has vowed never to return to Italy of her own volition

By Jeff Rayner/coleman-rayner and Sophie Jane Evans
Published: 11:12, 5 July 2014 | Updated: 11:23, 5 July 2014



DAILY MAIL

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Under the above story, one commentator quipped:

Quote:
CommentatorfromUK, PeterboroEUSSR, United Kingdom, 47 minutes ago

It's the first payment for his life insurance policy.


:)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
LUFC1972 wrote:
Hi All. The Mirror have picked up the cocaine dealer story:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ne-3800662


Am I mistaken or did I see your name on the front page under 'upcoming birthdays' a few days ago?

A belated Happy Birthday from me!

mul-)


And a belated Happy Birthday from me too!!! :) :) :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
I noticed that too.

The important information we can take from this dispute is that Injustice Anywhere's admins admit they control the accounts related to Sollecito's book and that they removed privileges from Sollecito and/or Sollecito's family members after he opted for a separate defence and refused to corroborate Knox's alibi.



This whole need the FOAKers seem to have to control Sollecito is interesting. If he's so innocent and Amanda's so innocent, why does he need so much chaperoning? And let's be clear, there's a huge difference between simply supporting someone and controlling them. But then, we've always said he's nothing but a puppet. Indeed, this is one of the primary reasons, by her own admission, that Knox was attracted to him in the first place...the fact that she can control him. Only now, Sollecito's no longer playing ball. Oh dear.

_________________
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Offline Earl Grey


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Oh dear, this argument is going to rage ever more out of control.

But, here are the facts: Raffaele fully supports his family's bad mouthing of Amanda Knox on the social networks, his silence in the face of it tells us that. Just as Amanda Knox fully supports her followers online bullying of the Kerchers by her silence. It is nice, therefore, to see some of these offenders getting a good taste of their own medicine...and by the look of how things are going there's much more to come. Karma, indeed!!!


Infighting among scumbags can be so unseemly, and so very pleasant and entertaining for those of us looking on.
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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:17 pm   Post subject: Re: RABIES OUTBREAK AT AMANDA KNOX FORUM   

Ergon wrote:
Source

Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Quote:
Post by Alex_K » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:04 am

Let's comment on The Independent's reprint of The Mirror's smear.

I think it's time for an all-out media counteroffensive focused on exposing the identities of Harry Rag and others, their dirty deeds and their unseemly personalities. The advantage in terms of human capital is on our side. We have PhDs in hard science while they have devious tabloid journalists.


What a buffoon. It's a shame there weren't any live interviews with Anne Bremner wearing her orange jumpsuit from King County Jail, Mario Spezi from his prison cell, Frank from one of the police cells he's been kept in or Jim Lovering wearing his silver foil hat and night vision googles in his trailer. Then everyone could see their "advantage in terms of human capital". :D
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I'm suspicious of the Daily Mail spread. We have never had a genuine 'paparazzi' spread of Knox. It has always been a PR jack-up.
Why should this be any different? I think it was set up by the Knox/Mellas group.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Belated Happy Birthday LUFC1972!
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It might be a set up, jaybee51, to generate sympathy for poor, sad, Amanda.

But when I saw the headlines: Why did Foxy give her boyfriend $100 in cash?

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To buy drugs?
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
I'm suspicious of the Daily Mail spread. We have never had a genuine 'paparazzi' spread of Knox. It has always been a PR jack-up.
Why should this be any different? I think it was set up by the Knox/Mellas group.



Only, were that the case, then we'd expect to see the sympathetic "exclusive" spread in some magazine or newspaper to go with it. But we're not seeing that, we're only seeing some rather scathing piece in the Daily Mail. It's odd though, I'll grant you that.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
I'm suspicious of the Daily Mail spread. We have never had a genuine 'paparazzi' spread of Knox. It has always been a PR jack-up.
Why should this be any different? I think it was set up by the Knox/Mellas group.



I'm suspicious, always, about anything, from the Daily Mail.

However, Sollecito has in fact done nothing at all of any substance.

He has shown that he is forever connected to her in the knowledge they share of that night, therefore they are each other's prisoner.

He thinks, if he could though, somehow miraculously, get some court persons, those who believe in flying cows, to believe his weak attempts at positioning as some separate entity, through his getting murky in the head about where and with whom he was, then if she were to get locked away, at the point she then started to accuse him or even come out with some huge story, like the truth out of spite revealed through her anger at him, about him, he could then say well obviously she wants to blame me, but I have done nothing, I did not say she was guilty, I don't know, as I was not there, all as I did was say I'm not sure where she was.

Therefore, these acts, are nothing, only a sign of the likely fact that he will crack at some time, but
is right now still paying this game.
At the moment he gets placed in handcuffs and led away with no prospects of get out again any time soon, any time in the way-ahead, distant future, how long is this spineless ninny going to hold up?

Two seconds is the answer, yet still his truth will not be THE truth, it will be a remodelled part true version, designed to fit his own needs exactly. His now girlfriend, young, attractive, is not going to last more than 5 years if she lasts 18 months at all, at waiting, while she wastes her life, for this guy who will not get out of jail until the kind of age men reach when they have hair growing out all of the wrong places, if they have any hair left at all, where some have trouble emptying the bladder, where others feel pain where they felt great pleasure before and need Viagra while going to the WC 15 times in a night, so maybe, if dad is still alive, he will be able to advise him on his prostate gland and his un-shake-off-able depression.

Dear John,

I'm writing to tell you that though I care deeply for you, I have met a person. Though I tried it is very hard to be not yet 30 but living as an old maid.
With or without some foolish young woman, that guy is going to get his ''all'' revealing (I say all but it will not be at all but it'll be what he says is his ALL) story/version out before Knox does, it will reveal, or fabricate a story, a scene in which he was tricked, more or less into helping her because he believed her when she told him that she had in fact done nothing, etc. He will say he did nothing to Meredith but helped and by saying that he will stick the boot in by saying that he knew Knox was responsible but thought she had been tricked and he was overcome with it all, and felt trapped and did not know what to do or think. He will say that he is truly sorry.
He knows now, that it was not the right thing to do, but that he never hurt anyone and never would, he only wanted to protect Knox.
At the point he is in prison, again, any holding back, save admitting his own guilt, will no longer apply, he will stick the boot in, and attack Knox, say she did it, that he got caught up.

Then when Knox goes for him, as counter attack, he will say, obviously she would say that wouldn't she, so he is presently thinking up all of the angles, so he can unload that later on, and he will enjoy being the one to come out with a new special version first. When people take up lying as a profession, their knot tying processes do wind up tying them in knots. Is Knox in knots or is she not?

I still expect him to go and do something potty again soon, as I cannot see him handing himself over, in order to get taken to prison, I still think he will suddenly be in some strange place, where he cannot be extradited, he will have been researching the option already for ages. Options also means methods of getting safely out of the country and to some safe haven.. but where?
Any escape plan will be certain to fail but he is nuts enough to go for it.

Wonder what the 100 was for, all as I could see was blood, in that pic, it looked, simultaneously, like money from theft. Is he so poor, did she owe him it, did he bring her heroin or coke?
Whatever it is, seems strange, a guy studying classical guitar is not a guy you'd imagine to be piss poor, but students can be, yet if he'd been distancing himself from her, unable to deal with becoming so well-known when his own life, through the association, would then be so greatly influenced, in a neg way, then surely he wouldn't be meeting up with her just to get some money.

The facts of that night must be so screwed up that none of them could have admitted the truth, but more than that, they could have but were so stubborn and such a pair of bastards that instead of backing down they've upheld a platform of bullying and anger since 2007, greedy as they get, harsh as can be, giving nothing, taking everything, Meredith's life, so they could have done lots, helped themselves in the process last and indeed least, but since the acts were so awful and the motives so futile, and because they were and are so full of themselves, they tried to get away with the lot instead.

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Last edited by zorba on Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
I'm suspicious of the Daily Mail spread. We have never had a genuine 'paparazzi' spread of Knox. It has always been a PR jack-up.
Why should this be any different? I think it was set up by the Knox/Mellas group.



This is reminiscent of past staged shots like when she received the call that her appeal was unsuccessful. James looks like he has been out of the picture and agreed to meet and be supportive of his former girlfriend, one who remembered to bring the money she borrowed.It will tug at the heart strings of supporters. Doesn't that tank shirt have crosses all over it?



picture of a pumpkin
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
I'm suspicious of the Daily Mail spread. We have never had a genuine 'paparazzi' spread of Knox. It has always been a PR jack-up.
Why should this be any different? I think it was set up by the Knox/Mellas group.



This is reminiscent of past staged shots like when she received the call that her appeal was unsuccessful. James looks like he has been out of the picture and agreed to meet and be supportive of his former girlfriend, one who remembered to bring the money she borrowed.It will tug at the heart strings of supporters. Doesn't that tank shirt have crosses all over it?


If it was some intended Mellox PR stunt, then it backfired rather badly.

I don't think this sort of thing is aimed at supporters, they'll still support her no matter what, even if she's guilty (as most of them know fully well she is ). Their fanatical support is already set in stone. If it is a stunt, then it's aimed at a wider audience. It would also be for another reason...to raise cash. Despite what she got for the book deal and has received for interviews and in the form of donations, as things go on the financial costs are mounting up.

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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

you are probably right it is a money thing. She hasn't the funds to buy a decent thing to wear and may be even cutting her own hair It's a snapshot of how the the latest news from the Sollecito's has sent her into despair.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Re The DM thing, very 'staged' it looks like. She's posing for the camera she knows is there.
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Offline SqueakEMouse


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The DM spread is so so staged and posed. 'Oh poor Amanda suffering the hellish attentions of the British gutter press again. Why wont they just leave the poor girl alone' is her supporters instinctive response. But their support is a given. It's reminiscent of previous staged photocalls after her return but this time there is no real message to go with it. It's as if they automatically reach for media exposure as an end in itself. And what's the money waving schtick about? To blame the press later for making innuendo? They have not been able to put out any narrative of substance to counter the news from Italy. Just a plain old dash for cash then? The puppeteers have become the puppets.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Analysis of the various computers in the case by Sallyoo at TJMK

Sollecitos Press Conference Backfires by SomeAlibi at TJMK.

Do post your comments and feedback.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Just for the laughs:

In this interview from 2013 Allison Hope Weiner narrates how she threw up in every country she's visited due to alcohol intoxication.

Credit goes to B for finding this gem. Thank you!

Drinking Diaries: Interview with Allison Hope Weiner

For those who wonder who Allison Hope Weiner is: She hosts the show Media Mayhem with guests like Steve Moore and Jim Clemente discussing criminal cases. She openly supports Amanda Knox and vilifies the Kerchers.

Her show is not available on a regular television channel. She uploads her videos to youtube.

Allison Hope Weiner was embroiled in some controversy for writing a sympathetic opinion piece about Mel Gibson. Later it was revealed that Mel Gibson’s Icon Productions LLC was an investor in Thelip.tv, the Internet company where she hosts her show and where one of his son's was a former employee.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
WORLD EXCLUSIVE PICTURES: Why did Foxy give her boyfriend $100 in cash? Tearful Amanda Knox's secret tryst with lover, days after Italian ex contradicts her account of night of the murder

* Amanda Knox, 26, photographed meeting American boyfriend James Terrano in a Seattle park on Wednesday
* University of Washington student was seen sobbing and speaking animatedly to Terrano before pair shared hug
* At one point, she was also pictured reaching into purse and handing boyfriend what appeared to be $100 in cash
* Came just days after Knox's Italian ex-boyfriend contradicted her account of night of Meredith Kercher's murder
* Knox and former partner Rafaelle Sollecito were re-convicted in January of Miss Kercher's killing in Perugia, Italy
* But Rafaelle Sollecito's lawyer has now said he cannot be sure Knox was with him for first part of evening in 2007
* Earlier this week, it was also reported that Italian prosecutors are preparing to use Knox's alleged ties to a cocaine dealer to have her extradited
* Miss Knox, who has been in the U.S. since 2011, has vowed never to return to Italy of her own volition

By Jeff Rayner/coleman-rayner and Sophie Jane Evans
Published: 11:12, 5 July 2014 | Updated: 11:23, 5 July 2014



DAILY MAIL


Amanda Knox looks absolutely miserable in these photos.

She has not updated her blog since Sollecito's press conference. She has not even approved comments since then. The number of comments regarding her latest blog post is still at 80.

For the first time it seems she was surprised by the events. She is not in control of the situation and she has no game plan.
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

If Amanda Knox looks miserable in those photos, it is because she wanted to appear that way. She was very aware of the presence of the photographer.

The question is what was she trying to achieve? How was she trying to manipulate the public?

Or was it just one upmanship - showing Raffie that she too still can control the media?
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I thought the photos show what she and her co-conspirators always try to hide, that is in fact, images of her looking affected.
As in truth, nothing at all what she did when it was clearly acting, like it was in court, and everywhere else for that matter, did show any of what is real about her, where she looked affected it was acting.
These images, struck me as something showing her looking almost like she is on a heavy medication, maybe self-medicated, like on an opiate, or pills but she'd have no trouble at all, getting a Smarty-type package full of a rainbow spectrum of3 tranquilliz

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Does anyone have any idea of what the deadline date is for a date to be issued for the High Court Appeal?

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I believe I read not earlier than 6 months after the filing of the appeals, but I could be wrong. I cannot find it right now.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Okay, thanks Nell :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Okay, thanks Nell :)


I will have to search for the source to be sure. I read it recently, but take it with a grain of salt in case I am misremembering. I will look for it and post it once I've found it.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I don't believe there is a set time for a date to be announced, Michael. Depends on court availability, I guess. I read a lot about the backlog caused by guaranteed rights of appeal causing untoward delays, but also how the Knox Sollecito appeals were handled more expeditiously than most..

So, my guess is an announcement in the fall, hearing early next year.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

OT, but apropos of some stuff happening behind the scenes:

Retweeted by Naseer Ahmad

Quote:
William Shakespeare @ShakespearePost · 1h

I find the people strangely fantasied;
Possess'd with rumours, full of idle dreams,
Not knowing what they fear, but full of fear
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Offline LUFC1972


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks for the kind birthday wishes. Some lovely people on here.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:25 pm   Post subject: ERRORS PETER GILL'S DNA BOOK   

I got my copy of 'Misleading DNA Evidence' by Gill. Errors there are a plenty, but I'll write on them soonest. He may not be expressing an opinion on guilt or innocence, but he's slanting that way.

Note:

- The knife wasn't transported in a "shoe box" from Sollecito's apartment, but a box that used to contain a diary. No contamination path for how Meredith's DNA shown, even for "contamination" which is what he's suggesting..

- The knife wasn't chosen on a "policeman's hunch", but because
a) It was exceptionally clean, as if someone had made an effort to rigorously scrub it.
b) it had longitudinal scratches along half it's length
c) the apartment smelled of bleach
d) The imprint of a knife on Meredith's bed matched the shape and dimensions of a kitchen knife, so a trained investigator would look for a kitchen, not bread knife, duh.

- He acknowledges the bra clasp has "probative value" but farts around with "kicked around" etc like any FOA.
- Too many ifs and possibles.

Stay in the Ivory Tower, Professor Gill.
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