Judge Massei Sentencing Report     The Meredith Kercher Fund     The Murder Of Meredith Kercher Wiki     True Justice For Meredith Kercher     Judge Nencini Sentencing Report 


Last visit was: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:21 am
It is currently Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:21 am
All times are UTC

Forum rules

XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30, 13 - JULY 31, 14

Moderators: Nell, Ergon, Michael, Moderators


 Page 1 of 30 [ 7308 posts ]
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 30  Next
Author Message

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:57 pm   Post subject: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30, 13 - JULY 31, 14   

XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30, 13 - JULY 31, 14






This is the main discussion thread regarding the achievement of truth and justice for Meredith Kercher and her family. Meredith, barely 21 years old, was brutally murdered in her own home on the 1st November 2007 whilst studying in Perugia, Italy.

To read the previous main discussion thread, please view XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 - SEPT 29, 13

Michael (Administrator/Moderator of Perugia Murder File)
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

GOOGLE TRANSLATION:


29 September 2013 Last updated at 21:13

Meredith , via a process to Raffaele and Amanda . But Knox remains in Seattle

First hearing in the Tuscan capital . All hypotheses in the courts : the demands of new expert to testify to that of Rudy

Francesca Marruco

Were not enough seven years, and three levels of courts to determine whether to kill Meredith Kercher were Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito . There will still be at the bar in their appeal process that opens a in Florence. Or, rather, their legal at the time . Amanda , in fact, announced that it would await the outcome in Seattle , and Raffaele should take part in hearings , according to a statement from his father.

Who is and who is not , therefore, Amanda classroom there will be , Raffaele doubts will be dispelled in the classroom. Announced instead the presence of Patrick Lumumba . The families of the poor victim who for almost six years been calling for truth , will not be present instead as previously announced due to some health problems. The judges of Florence is thus might decide to re-open , even if only in part, the preliminary hearing , or not to proceed with the discussion . The Court has already established seven dates to as many audiences as well as the opening .

The judicial history In two months will mark the sixth anniversary of the murder of Meredith Kercher , who was killed in his house in Via della Pergola in Perugia with a knife to her throat. Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito have always declared innocent . And in the three sets of proceedings have received, before a conviction , then an acquittal , then a cancellation of the Supreme Court , which ordered a new trial.

How will the process what will happen in this umpteenth degree of judgment is impossible to predict. The Court presided over by Judge Alessandro Nencini may decide to reopen , even in part, the preliminary hearing , as to some extent seem to suggest stoats in the written judgment of the Supreme Court . In particular, on page 64 they write that it is " certainly reprehensible management of the assignment , given that the experts were asked to analyze the DNA on the knife and on the clasp of her bra. In the course of their investigations , the experts rinvennero a third track on the blade of the knife seized at Sollecito's house , in addition to the one attributed to Knox and that without challenge attributed with strong objections to the victim, right next to the track from which it was extracted dNA attributed to it . "

The track " This track - still writing the judges of legitimacy in the reasons - was not subjected to genetic testing , to the resolution passed in solitude by Professor Vecchiotti , and without a documented prior authorization to this effect by the Court , because it was deemed in quantities not sufficient to provide a reliable result , since the Law copy number . " The choice of the consultant was then married by the Court of second instance that refused the additional expertise required by the attorney general of Perugia. The judges of the Supreme Court pointed out that the Court of second degree of Perugia he did this despite the request of the prosecution and the plaintiff was " supported by the scientific contribution of Professor. Novelli , renowned geneticist undisputed recognized by the Court (p. 79 sent ) on the availability of tools that can operate safely on findings in quantities less than ten picograms , in areas of diagnostic character (even on embryos) in which the claim certainty is certainly less pressing than that which animates the legal field . "

The survey was made ​​in this decision , the judges Capitoline , the modus operandi of the court which acquitted the former sweethearts also and above all in relation to the results of the genetic expertise , " exposes you to motivated and understandable considering allegations that the investigation was however accomplished , as was part of the task assigned to the expert , subject to the questioning of the outcome, if not deemed reliable . In any case, a member of the assessors could not take responsibility for autoridursi mandate. It must be concluded that the decision is flawed to reject the request to complete the survey expert . "

Requests Raffaele Sollecito 's defense has presented many requests for renewal hearing, including the analysis of pillowcases pillow bed of Meredith, who has never been analyzed . In a document lodged at the Registry of the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Florence , lawyers Giulia Bongiorno and Luca Maori , they ask - as was done in previous processes - be analyzed one pillowcase in which it is visible to the naked eye a yellowish stain , which could be of sperm .

Rudy classroom They also wanted to re-analyze the bra clasp of Meredith to sweep away any doubt about the presence of the DNA of Raffaele Sollecito (absent for the defense ) . The lawyers also want Rudy Guede - definitively sentenced to 16 years in prison for murdering Meredith Kercher in competition - witnesses again . Even the Mac Book pro Sollecito should be retested for the defense , because it is established that Meredith was killed someone while interacting with the computer. Raffaele is an alibi for that Amanda .



UMBRIA 24

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

Posts: 1564

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

"I have a chance to confront Guede in court." She says right after explaining that she is not coming :roll:
http://www.firenzepost.it/2013/09/29/om ... a-firenze/
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
"I have a chance to confront Guede in court." She says right after explaining that she is not coming :roll:
http://www.firenzepost.it/2013/09/29/om ... a-firenze/



Thanks, Max. Here's a GOOGLE TRANSLATION of that:


Amanda , you will not be there circus
Meredith murder , trial begins tomorrow in Florence

Massimiliano Mantiloni - Sunday, 29 September 2013 15:53 ​​- report


FLORENCE - Amanda Knox there will be : "Do not go back to Italy because my presence has always been a distraction in the classroom. Every single movement I made , every expression on my face was analyzed and distracted by the presentation and analysis of evidence. It ' amazing how many times we talked about what I wore , how I acconciavo hair or if sorridessi or not my parents respect to the evidence of the case. I will not go to avoid that circus . "

On the eve of the first hearing of the appeal trial in Florence for the murder of Meredith Kercher , the young American gave an interview published in Corriere Fiorentino , the back room of the Corriere della Sera. However, responding to a question on the judges of Florence that tomorrow will review his position and that of Raffaele Sollecito , says : "I have a chance to confront Guede in court ." Rudy Guede is the young Ivorian already sentenced to 16 years on summary judgment for the murder of via della Pergola in Perugia on the night between 1 and 2 November 2007 . "It 's amazing how Guede has fared if we consider the evidence against him," says Knox pointing out that the young Ivorian has provided different versions to shift responsibilities to her and Sollecito . And speaking of the former boyfriend , Amanda also commented on a passage from the book written by him and in which he talks about his refusal to urge a sort of invitation to involve her , perhaps obtaining an advantage . A fact that Amanda says she has not known before: " That simple episode of courageous humanity has left me speechless and says a lot about the person in that circumstance is able to do such a thing ."

So criticizes the Italian justice : "In an Italian court Amanda Knox -says - it is impossible or very difficult. Why do not you try going to the charge if they are guilty , it's up to me to prove that I'm innocent. I'm the one that the disadvantaged party in this case. It was built my own image as that of a young ruthless liar , a sleeve sexual murderer. What fascinated people . "

Wait at Seattle University news on the first hearing of the new appeals process . "And ' worried - said lawyer Luciano Ghirga - aware that because it is a fundamental step for her . It 'still serene because I aware of his innocence . "

Clear but slightly nervous about the importance of the appointment also appeared Raffaele Sollecito to his lawyer , the lawyer Giulia Bongiorno . The young man from Puglia is on vacation in the Caribbean and in recent days the father explained that he will return to what should be the key of the appeal hearings bis, at the end of October.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Okay, I think I'm getting the hang of this. Let's see. Major complaint from the FOAKers was the fact that Knox was crucified by the media. It turns out that was because she was in the COURTROOM.
So, if she stays out of the courtroom and gives daily sound bytes and interviews, then the media will have no effect on the outcome like they supposedly did in the first trial. Nope, I read this over and it doesn't make any sense. Let me go back over what has been said and see if I can understand it better. I'll be back. This might take awhile.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
"I have a chance to confront Guede in court." She says right after explaining that she is not coming :roll:
http://www.firenzepost.it/2013/09/29/om ... a-firenze/


This will only be if the court agrees to the defense request to compel Guede to testify in court, and even then, it won't be her, but her lawyers, that will 'confront' him, lol. I would also be very very careful about what one asks for. I for one hope he will be asked back, though I think that is unlikely. But I know there will be surprises from him one day.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

Posts: 1564

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
max wrote:
"I have a chance to confront Guede in court." She says right after explaining that she is not coming :roll:
http://www.firenzepost.it/2013/09/29/om ... a-firenze/

This will only be if the court agrees to the defense request to compel Guede to testify in court, and even then, it won't be her, but her lawyers, that will 'confront' him, lol. I would also be very very careful about what one asks for. I for one hope he will be asked back, though I think that is unlikely. But I know there will be surprises from him one day.

I suspect it wasn't even the Knox defense who requested this but Sollecito's. Bongiorno is a lawyer who can easily let Guede trip in his own lies. Since the judges already know Guede is not reliable this request will probably be denied.
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jhansigirl wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Oh the climber guy, where they got him?

They got him fresh off of Mount Annapurna, asking hey, you seem like an ordinary guy, want a job, because you seem just like this guy who never climbed a rock, or even threw one, in his entire life.


Hi Zorba,

I don't think they introduced the climber by name, but he wears a t-shirt with advertising from a Perugian climbing club on it: a.s.d. Tacche e Svasi Climbing Club


Just a thought, is it likely that the final film was edited to increase the shadowing to make it look like a ledge?


I don't think it would be in their interest to do that. If you look at older pictures, there is a part that is darker and as Ergon already said before, it gives the impression of depth, but i's not real.

The climber visited the original cottage in Perugia and scaled the wall to reach the window.

He used the bars to lift his body weight up and the experiment fails to show how he could have entered through the window with big pieces of glass still firmly fixed in the frame, without injuring himself somehow. Without the bars it would be extremely difficult to heave your body high enough to reach the latch and open the window. So this experiment raises more questions than it answers.

No matter if possible or not, this window was a bad choice to stage the break-in, because it was the least accessible point of entry and the most exposed one to the view of curious neighbours and passing cars.

There is also no explanation as to why no glass was found under Filomena's window after such an entry. The only logical explanation is that the window was smashed from the inside with the shutters closed.

I would also expect Meredith Kercher to have been alarmed by the noise the smashing of the window and the falling rock onto the floor would have caused. The struggle most likely would have started in Filomena's bedroom then, not in hers.

This whole scenario is absurd.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Before we criticize Barbie Nadeau for her latest article on the case, to be fair we need to see her previous one: Why retrying Amanda Knox is important
It seems she would like definitive evidence and asking for a retrying of some DNA evidence to make sure:
Quote:
But just because the appeal has been sent back does not necessarily spell trouble for Knox and Sollecito. If the new appellate judge orders a full reexamination of all the forensics and is able to square all the unsolved aspects of the case, they could still be acquitted a second time—if those results prove them innocent. But leaving all those unanswered questions hanging would have been the wrong choice if this case is ever to be closed satisfactorily. And, more important, if the mystery of Kercher’s murder is to ever be solved.


In that context I think I see where she's coming from, even if I disagree at times: Amanda Knox faces new trial Italy
Quote:
All three are essentially currently convicted of Kercher’s murder.

Quote:
this second appellate trial is not considered double jeopardy

Quote:
it is widely assumed that he is open to the reexamination of forensic evidence and may be amenable to hearing new witnesses

But it is this quote which is ambiguous, though not objectionable in itself.
Quote:
The Italian high court, which must sign off on all convictions or acquittals before they are considered final, threw out the 2011 acquittals in March, alleging that the appellate court that freed Knox and Sollecito did so with haste and carelessness. “Too many questions remain unanswered,” the high judges wrote.
According to the high court, the defense team did not adequately prove that Knox and Sollecito were not involved in the murder. The court did agree that some of the forensic evidence that was reexamined in the 2011 appeal proved faulty due to sloppiness in the way it was collected and tested. But they questioned why not all the forensic and circumstantial evidence used to convict the duo in 2009--including mixed blood and DNA drops found in the bathroom the girls shared, Knox’s original so-called “false confession,” and Guede’s own testimony that both Knox and Sollecito were in the house with him that fatal night--were dismissed without argument. They also scorned the appellate court’s definition of contamination: “The theory that anything is possible in genetic testing is not valid. Contamination must be proven with certainty not supposition.”


In this context, I see her conclusion
Quote:
There is every possibility that Knox and Sollecito will again be acquitted of Kercher’s murder. The case is complicated and messy with plenty of reasonable doubt, compromised by sloppy police work, and subject to the type of international attention that sometimes blurs logic.
as simply an explanation of what might happen. She has never acted as one of the groupie 'journalists' who so tainted the name of that profession. Keep in mind also it was she who reported on the 'independent' experts being seen around Perugia with members of the Sollecito family and rumours of judicial corruption in Hellmmann's court. I would never expect a journalist to be on 'our' side, just that they be neutral. Let's see how she reports this trial.

But one thing did strike me. I did not see her in Cassazione that March 25 and 26, and wondered about that. Perhaps I missed her, but I do know she has been unfairly attacked by the Groupies all along. So I'm willing to wait and see, and look forward to her reporting. Like all of us, perhaps she wants 'this case to be closed satisfactorily'.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Iodine


User avatar


Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 9:56 pm

Posts: 141

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I would think that Knox's defense would be the ones to request Guede -- he used to say Knox had nothing to do with it, but after they dumped all the responsibility on him there's just no way he'd be forced into vouching for her. Meanwhile he's always said Sollecito killed Meredith, so even if Bongiorno were able to fluster him on the stand, she can't undo six years of statements. If Bongiorno requested him I would totally expect another Aviello situation.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Tweeted by Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 9h

Quote:
Tune in to @BBCNewsday and @bbc5live for my Monday a.m. dispatches from #amandaknox trial. Also updates here: http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featured/amanda-knox-appeal-2/


BBC Radio5 live:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/5live/on-air

Newsday on the BBC Live now on air and online

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_world_service
Top Profile 

Offline jaybee51


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:19 pm

Posts: 112

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

the smiling assassin:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... today.html


Last edited by jaybee51 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top Profile 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Tweeted by Stephanie Siegel ‏@StephSiegelNBC 41m

Quote:
Raffaele Sollecito speaks exclusively to @SavannahGuthrie tomorrow on @TODAYshow as his new trial begins in Italy.


Will he appear live on the TODAY show via video link from Santo Domingo :?: Or is it a repeat of his old 'canned' interview from May 2013 :?: -->> http://www.perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?p=108467#p108467
Top Profile 

Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

Posts: 1564

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Iodine wrote:
I would think that Knox's defense would be the ones to request Guede -- he used to say Knox had nothing to do with it, but after they dumped all the responsibility on him there's just no way he'd be forced into vouching for her. Meanwhile he's always said Sollecito killed Meredith, so even if Bongiorno were able to fluster him on the stand, she can't undo six years of statements. If Bongiorno requested him I would totally expect another Aviello situation.

From this article I got the idea that it was the Sollecito defense.
http://www.umbria24.it/meredith-via-al- ... 15548.html
I think his statements are more damaging to the Knox defense since he clearly identified Knox during his appeal trial (with that he admits his Skype call was not honest), but he never clearly identified Sollecito. That last letter was the first time he named him and only because it was what he 'thought'. He never said he 'thought' it because he now recognized the 'unknown Italian'. He does put a knife in his hand but it doesn't exclude the involvement of Knox in the murder since it was already over and she was on the run according to Guede. Hypothetically, the Sollecito defense could even use his statements to claim that it was Knox and some other guy.

Overall I think the stuff he has told is too messy and I doubt his testimony will be used, but I wouldn't mind to see him on the stand again. Lets hope he is not another Aviello..yikes. :?
Top Profile 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It's already tomorrow (early afternoon) in Australia. Before getting too excited, let me tell you that there's nothing new is this video. ;)

Amanda Knox retrial begins (VIDEO)

THE MORNING SHOW (Australia)
Top Profile 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Time in Florence, Italy
Monday, September 30, 2013
6:55 AM (CEST)
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The article published by Umbria24 informs that the Kerchers won't be attending due to their fragile health. I wonder if Stephanie Kercher and her brother are going to be there as announced or not?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
GOOGLE TRANSLATION:

Requests Raffaele Sollecito 's defense has presented many requests for renewal hearing, including the analysis of pillowcases pillow bed of Meredith, who has never been analyzed . In a document lodged at the Registry of the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Florence , lawyers Giulia Bongiorno and Luca Maori , they ask - as was done in previous processes - be analyzed one pillowcase in which it is visible to the naked eye a yellowish stain , which could be of sperm .

Rudy classroom They also wanted to re-analyze the bra clasp of Meredith to sweep away any doubt about the presence of the DNA of Raffaele Sollecito (absent for the defense ) . The lawyers also want Rudy Guede - definitively sentenced to 16 years in prison for murdering Meredith Kercher in competition - witnesses again . Even the Mac Book pro Sollecito should be retested for the defense , because it is established that Meredith was killed someone while interacting with the computer. Raffaele is an alibi for that Amanda .

UMBRIA 24


Jools has translated parts of this article:

Post by Jools » 29 Sep 2013, 22:07

This article from Umbria24 reports on some of the"requests" lodged by RS's defence. We'lll probably know by tomorrow if the Appeal Court agrees to a "rinnovazione dibattimentale".

(...)

The requests. Raffaele Sollecito's defence has presented many requests for the renewal of oral argument, including the analysis of the pillowcase from Meredith’s bed, which has never been analyzed. In a document lodged at the Registry of the Court of Assizes of Appeal in Florence, lawyers Giulia Bongiorno and Luca Maori, they ask – as already done in the previous trials – for this pillowcase to be analyzed in which a yellowish stain is visible to the naked eye, which could be of sperm.

Rudy in court. Defence are also asking for the bra clasp to be re-analyzed in order to wipe out all doubt about the presence of Raffaele Sollecito’s DNA (absent according to the defence). The lawyers also want Rudy Guede - definitively convicted to 16 years in prison for murdering Meredith Kercher in complicity with others – to testify in court again. Even the Mac Book pro of Sollecito should be retested according to the defence, because it verifies that Meredith was killed while someone was interacting with the computer. An alibi for both Raffaele and Amanda.


UMBRIA24
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yes me I don't care about journalists, what I think, is that Barbie could write an extra word, by writing Meredith, Meredith Kercher or Meredith, but not Kercher, she sounds like a cop, or a totally impersonal person, but she wrote a book on what is about Meredith, I hate referring to someone by their last name, but if it is someone distant okay, but not if you have written a book on that person, the least you could do for warmth is write Meredith Kercher.

I don't even need to think about it, I just call Barbie Barbie, not Nadeau.vComes from that fgod awful Brtish schooloing system, made to wear short trousers until the age of 12 in the freezing cold and snow on the way to the rotten school, one of thousands, were they'd bash you about, pull your hair, hit your head with keys between fingers, humiliate you, and.. wait for it, not let you wear your own clothes or use your own name, only the surname, I wanted to burn the place down, that's why I hate refferring to people by thir surnames, that is, all except for murderers.

The BBC woman had trouble pronouncing Sollecitós name, I told her, through the telly, call him SorryPsycho

God this work, all night, still not don tat tar
again

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The computer alibi is pathetic, especially taking into account Raffaele Sollecito's many claims he was on the internet. The log files of his internet providers prove his claims to be false.

Judging by the article, this will be appeal 2.0, just not an improved version. The defence basically wants a trial de novo, requesting everything or almost everything to be redone and if the results come back with the wrong results, they would probably ask for another test to make sure the last test was correct and so forth. Should the judge say "no", they will scream foul.

If all the tests are unreliable, maybe we should just scrap the whole thing at let ABC viewers decide via an online poll.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

5 live interview about the retrial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito

Nikki Battiste

Part 1: http://audioboo.fm/boos/1629871-5-live-interview-about-the-retrial-of-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito
Part 2: http://audioboo.fm/boos/1629877-and-part-2-of-that-interview?playlist_direction=forward
Top Profile 

Offline The Machine


Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:43 pm

Posts: 2306

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Chris Wands was inundated with tweets. Thanks to everyone who contacted him. He says he has never had a Twitter response like it i.e. the volume. Meredith's voice won't be drowned out anymore.
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Machine wrote:
Chris Wands was inundated with tweets. Thanks to everyone who contacted him. He says he has never had a Twitter response like it i.e. the volume. Meredith's voice won't be drowned out anymore.


That is good news. Meredith Kercher is the real victim and no matter where one stands regarding guilt or innocence there is no reason to ignore her.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   



Nikki Battiste: "People are just trying to decide: 'Do I believe Amanda Knox or not?'"
Chris Wands: "Do you have an opinion on that? You've been following this case from the very beginning."
Nikki Battiste: "I can't comment on that. I'm sorry."
Chris Wands: "Sure."

Truth hurts.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Current local time in Firenze, Italy

Monday, September 30, 2013
9:03:30 AM CEST

Courtroom doors closed.
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

From Perugia:

Quote:
Lisa D'Arrigo @cicerodiello

@PMFdotNet Yes. I am at court now. Fox News reporter just arrived and Rai Uni are there.

https://twitter.com/cicerodiello/status ... 9003403264
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline sherrel


User avatar


Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:27 am

Posts: 25

Images: 0

Location: San Franciso Bay Area, California

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:

Nikki Battiste: "People are just trying to decide: 'Do I believe Amanda Knox or not?'"
Chris Wands: "Do you have an opinion on that? You've been following this case from the very beginning."
Nikki Battiste: "I can't comment on that. I'm sorry."
Chris Wands: "Sure."

Truth hurts.


Well, that kind of leads me to believe that maybe Nikki believes Knox might be guilty and if she expressed her honest opinion, she would loose her access to Knox.

ETA: Nancy Grace wouldn't hold back.

_________________
“Guilt: the gift that keeps on giving.”
― Erma Bombeck
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Well I have the telly on in the background and the pair of them are on all the time but those speaking, saying what it is, sounds so terrible, and this is the beebee sea, one sounded like she was on valium, but more, the accentuation, inflection, I mean, all this what we've been talking about, it really seems like that, all as they want is their stories, and, again, the Knox, and how SHE was released and now has to bla bla bla, I mean the clips showing her being released were not people cheering, they were jeering.

Anyay I hope Barbie lays off the mental poison from Pisa, in fact apart from Follain, I've been ashamed at the lousy quality of British reporting, they cannot take sides but they could switch their brains on and provide far better quality as to facts, they hardly ever do, they always get most of it wrong and just parrot what others say, for that I do appreciate Barbie that she said something more than the rest, still, I do think she is obsessed.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
Top Profile 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Meredith process, the arrival of Luciano Ghirga, defender of Amanda Knox

https://twitter.com/qn_lanazione/status/384577461037441025/photo/1

Meredith process, the arrival of Giulia Bongiorno, defender of Raffaele Sollecito

https://twitter.com/qn_lanazione/status/384576057216475137/photo/1

Cameras in front of the Palace of Justice in Florence

https://twitter.com/massimosolani/status/384572090785214464/photo/1
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

sherrel wrote:
Nell wrote:

Nikki Battiste: "People are just trying to decide: 'Do I believe Amanda Knox or not?'"
Chris Wands: "Do you have an opinion on that? You've been following this case from the very beginning."
Nikki Battiste: "I can't comment on that. I'm sorry."
Chris Wands: "Sure."

Truth hurts.


Well, that kind of leads me to believe that maybe Nikki believes Knox might be guilty and if she expressed her honest opinion, she would loose her access to Knox.

ETA: Nancy Grace wouldn't hold back.


I assumed that after all the favourable coverage from ABC and Elizabeth Vargas, it would have been an easy exercise to say she believes Amanda Knox to be innocent. It's not that her reputation could suffer more in the eyes of the public than it already has.

So Nikki Battiste refusing to comment on that subject is in fact refusing to say she believes Amanda Knox. That in itself is a letdown.

As a reminder: 'I didn't let producers babysit my daughters': Amanda Knox's dad denies TV deal (but admits his girls used THREE networks' hotel rooms)
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yeah, Miss-Nikki-Battiste-I-baby-sat-the-Knox-children.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It's started. Fom Barbie:

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 47s
Patrick Lumumba lawyer tells court that #AmandaKnox has not paid him damages yet. #MeredithKercher

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Live Updates: Knox Retrial Opens In Italy
The retrial of Amanda Knox and her ex-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito in the murder of Meredith Kercher get under way in Florence.


SKY NEWS

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A few photos that have been published on Twitter.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

From Andrea:

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 1m
Patrick Lumumba speaking to press: #amandaknox should be here, but she is afraid, because she knows she has a responsibility.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Latest. Blow for Knox and Sollecito:

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 16s
Court rules Lumumba may stay and be a part of #amandaknox appeal trial.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Next:

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 31s
Lawyer for #MeredithKercher family submitting letter from family, Sollecito lawyer objects to it being read in court. #AmandaKnox

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
jhansigirl wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Oh the climber guy, where they got him?

They got him fresh off of Mount Annapurna, asking hey, you seem like an ordinary guy, want a job, because you seem just like this guy who never climbed a rock, or even threw one, in his entire life.


Hi Zorba,

I don't think they introduced the climber by name, but he wears a t-shirt with advertising from a Perugian climbing club on it: a.s.d. Tacche e Svasi Climbing Club


Just a thought, is it likely that the final film was edited to increase the shadowing to make it look like a ledge?


I don't think it would be in their interest to do that. If you look at older pictures, there is a part that is darker and as Ergon already said before, it gives the impression of depth, but i's not real.

The climber visited the original cottage in Perugia and scaled the wall to reach the window.

He used the bars to lift his body weight up and the experiment fails to show how he could have entered through the window with big pieces of glass still firmly fixed in the frame, without injuring himself somehow. Without the bars it would be extremely difficult to heave your body high enough to reach the latch and open the window. So this experiment raises more questions than it answers.

No matter if possible or not, this window was a bad choice to stage the break-in, because it was the least accessible point of entry and the most exposed one to the view of curious neighbours and passing cars.

There is also no explanation as to why no glass was found under Filomena's window after such an entry. The only logical explanation is that the window was smashed from the inside with the shutters closed.

I would also expect Meredith Kercher to have been alarmed by the noise the smashing of the window and the falling rock onto the floor would have caused. The struggle most likely would have started in Filomena's bedroom then, not in hers.

This whole scenario is absurd.


Wouldn't it mean that if no glass was found underneath Filomina's bedroom window, the glass could have been broken from the inside or the outside - with the shutters closed? A third possibility, that was not explored in the recent Five Reasons Why Knox is Innocent video, is that the glass was broken from the inside, but the rock was not "thrown out the window" (shutters were closed). Only the two possibilities of hurling the rock through the window (in or out) were explored in the Knox PR footage - but the broken glass suggests that something else happened. Investigators came to the conclusion that the scene was staged. The latest round of "experts" should have staged the possibility that the rock was smashed into the glass from the inside and into the shutters from the outside - with the shutters closed. That might have cleared up the question. Didn't Filomino say that the shutters were friction fit, stuck closed?

Knox and Sollecito did admit to running around the cottage to see if they could enter Meredith's bedroom. It's equally possible that they were looking for a good sized rock. If they went outside to collect a large rock, why wouldn't they have thrown it through the window, rather than go inside and smash the glass ... after they'd ransacked the bedroom? Were they too drugged=up to think straight ... until around 1 the following day? What about the money ... did they take that after they murdered Meredith and before they broke the window ... was the broken window an afterthought, before getting rid of the phones?

If Meredth was wearing headphones, would she have heard arock smashing through the window?

With all of the media hype that Knox/Sollecito are creating, I keep looking for something that resembles "sincerity". Why can't I see it in them?
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Next...(Google translated):

Maximum Solani @ massimosolani 32s
Meredith process # # The defense of Amanda Knox in court ask you to listen to # Guede, the only guilty convicted by a final

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

That one is good:

Quote:
Patricia Thomas @MozzarellaMamma

#Knox Defense Lawyer says they are offended by accusations that Amanda is talking too much to the press, as appeal 2 starts in Florence

https://twitter.com/MozzarellaMamma/sta ... 5285889024
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It has been reported from the court room that no one from the Kercher family is present.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
It's started. Fom Barbie:

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 47s
Patrick Lumumba lawyer tells court that #AmandaKnox has not paid him damages yet. #MeredithKercher


I like that! Thank you. Knox claims that she can't afford to appear at trial because she has repaid her debts with the 3.8 million she has from a book deal. Apparently that is not so. She has not repaid her debts, not even the small ones.

Another reason given by Knox for not appearing in court is that "the convicted appellant does not want to distract the court." When, in the history of jurisprudence, has the suspect been a distraction for the court?

This is a distraction ... took this today ...

Image




I hope that the evidence is properly considered this time.



picture of a pumpkin
This Post has been edited by a Moderator
Details: Edited photo to fix board width.
Top Profile 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Latest. Blow for Knox and Sollecito:

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 16s
Court rules Lumumba may stay and be a part of #amandaknox appeal trial.


Did Sollectio/Knox expect that? Knox screwed up again. That was one debt that she should have paid. Patrick adds credibity to the prosecution case if only because he is a witness to how she was leading up to the murder, after the murder and today. It shows a pattern of behavior.
Clearly she has done little to put things right.
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Photo gallery from today's hearing: http://multimedia.quotidiano.net/?tipo= ... edia=79020

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Is the prosecution trying to shut down the Knox media PR propaganda blitz?
Media should report the trial, but unless the suspects appear in court, they probably should not have a media voice ...voicing an opinion, not under oath.

What's in the letter from Meredith's family that the defence does not want made public?
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Michael wrote:
Latest. Blow for Knox and Sollecito:

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 16s
Court rules Lumumba may stay and be a part of #amandaknox appeal trial.


Did Sollectio/Knox expect that? Knox screwed up again. That was one debt that she should have paid. Patrick adds credibity to the prosecution case if only because he is a witness to how she was leading up to the murder, after the murder and today. It shows a pattern of behavior.
Clearly she has done little to put things right.



I agree, it was a major mistake of Knox not to pay Patrick his compensation. Now she has to deal with him as an enemy in her appeal and he makes her look very bad. I can only imagine, that the reasons she didn't pay him, was because she and her handlers felt it would serve as some sort of admission of guilt. But really, they made a bad mistake!!!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Latest:

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 22s
Sollecito lawyer asking for time to make requests, judge says this is not a Taliban court, there is time for every request. #amandaknox


Hmm, I'm starting to get a feel for the character of this judge :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Next:

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 12s
#sollecito lawyer asks court to concentrate and focus only on credible evidence, not fanciful evidence like the scream, etc #amandaknox

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:

I agree, it was a major mistake of Knox not to pay Patrick his compensation. Now she has to deal with him as an enemy in her appeal and he makes her look very bad. I can only imagine, that the reasons she didn't pay him, was because she and her handlers felt it would serve as some sort of admission of guilt. But really, they made a bad mistake!!!


The financial penalty to Knox was a simple civil litigation decision based on her complicity in his financial loss, so I can't see any reason for her to think that it represented an admission of guilt. It was confirmed by the highest court that Knox slandered Patrick Lumumba and it resulted in destruction of life and career. Wasn't the fine something like fifteen thousand euors?
Top Profile 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Jester wrote:
Michael wrote:
Latest. Blow for Knox and Sollecito:

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 16s
Court rules Lumumba may stay and be a part of #amandaknox appeal trial.


Did Sollectio/Knox expect that? Knox screwed up again. That was one debt that she should have paid. Patrick adds credibity to the prosecution case if only because he is a witness to how she was leading up to the murder, after the murder and today. It shows a pattern of behavior.
Clearly she has done little to put things right.



I agree, it was a major mistake of Knox not to pay Patrick his compensation. Now she has to deal with him as an enemy in her appeal and he makes her look very bad. I can only imagine, that the reasons she didn't pay him, was because she and her handlers felt it would serve as some sort of admission of guilt. But really, they made a bad mistake!!!


If I tried to channel Amanda, I would say she honestly thinks she is not guilty of slander and therefore doesn't owe Patrick a penny. It was the police's fault, and the verdict on that was all wrong.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Latest:

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau
#sollecito lawyer makes point that the "assassin always leaves a trace" and those who are not there cannot leave a trace. #amandaknox

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

Posts: 1564

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Latest:

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 22s
Sollecito lawyer asking for time to make requests, judge says this is not a Taliban court, there is time for every request. #amandaknox

Hmm, I'm starting to get a feel for the character of this judge :)

Yup, I love the speed. No more delaying tricks by the defense.
Top Profile 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
It has been reported from the court room that no one from the Kercher family is present.


I've read somewhere that Meredith's sister and brother stayed home due to their parents' fragile health. It was only a news article though.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Next:

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 12s
#sollecito lawyer asks court to concentrate and focus only on credible evidence, not fanciful evidence like the scream, etc #amandaknox


Not surprising that the defence would like to have certain evidence excluded ... the "scream" is one of thei Five Reasons that the evidence should be considered ambiguous - per the defence.
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

And:

Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma 23s
Sollecito lawyer throws herself into details of DNA found at the scene of the crime in #meredithkercher murder as #amandaknox retrial begins

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Latest:

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 22s
Sollecito lawyer asking for time to make requests, judge says this is not a Taliban court, there is time for every request. #amandaknox


Hmm, I'm starting to get a feel for the character of this judge :)


When I read this tweet from Barbie Nadeau, I took it that the court is sending a clear message. They had enough of this nonsense and they are saying 'enough already'.

Sounds like this judge will dedicate some time, but not the way the defense had hoped.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Latest:

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 22s
Sollecito lawyer asking for time to make requests, judge says this is not a Taliban court, there is time for every request. #amandaknox


Hmm, I'm starting to get a feel for the character of this judge :)


When I read this tweet from Barbie Nadeau, I took it that the court is sending a clear message. They had enough of this nonsense and they are saying 'enough already'.

Sounds like this judge will dedicate some time, but not the way the defense had hoped.


Isn't that what everyone first throught with the Hellman trial?
Top Profile 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Tom Kington @tomkington 11:41 AM
Bongiorno says only one trace of Sollecito in murder room, no trace of Knox. Asks for check to see if room was cleaned


Last edited by Ava on Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox 'accused bar owner to divert suspicion' over Meredith Kercher murder
Amanda Knox wrongly accused a bar owner of murdering Meredith Kercher to “throw off course” the investigation into the crime, the businessman’s lawyer has said.



THE TELEGRAPH

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Soooo should have paid him!!!!!!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox retrial over killing of Meredith Kercher begins in Italy
By Jethro Mullen and Erin McLaughlin, CNN
September 30, 2013 -- Updated 0936 GMT (1736 HKT)
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/30/world ... x-retrial/

"Sollecito, her former boyfriend, told CNN he plans to stay in the Dominican Republic with a friend. At the moment he says he has no immediate plans to return to Italy."
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox's 2nd appeals trial for murder opens
The Associated Press, Posted September 30, 2013 at 2:40 a.m.
http://www.vcstar.com/news/2013/sep/30/ ... der-opens/


"We refute the idea that because Amanda is not coming, that Amanda is guilty, that Amanda is using a strategy. Amanda always said she was a friend of Meredith's, Amanda has always respected the Italian justice system," Knox's defense lawyer Luciano Ghirga told reporters before the trial opened.

...

The bar owner, Patrick Lumumba, showed up at the trial Monday, saying he did so to underline the damage he suffered from Knox's false accusations.
"I say the same thing I said six years ago. I think she is guilty, and that is why she slandered me," Lumbumba told reporters. Knox's conviction for slandering Lumumba has been confirmed by the high court, but it asked the Florence appeals court to determine if it should reinstate it as an aggravating circumstance that Knox lied to derail the investigation and protect herself from becoming a murder suspect.
In its first move, the Florence court rejected a motion by Knox's lawyers to exclude Lumbumba from the new appeals trial as a civil participant, a status that allows him to seek further damages. His lawyer says Lumbumba is owed more than 103,000 euros ($139,500) in legal fees."
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Latest:

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 1m
Bongiorno: Crime scene conditions prohibited proper evidence gathering. Bra clasp should be thrown out. #amandaknox

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Tom Kington @tomkington, 11:55 AM
Bongiorno wants new tests on Kercher's phones, says they are the 'black box' that can prove 22.00 as time of death.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 4m
Maori now talking about sexual assault evidence, or lack thereof he says.

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 51s
Maori tells court about presumed sperm spot on pillow under #meredithkercher and how it wasn't tested.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Tom Kington @tomkington
Bongiorno says only one trace of Sollecito in murder room, no trace of Knox. Asks for check to see if room was cleaned


What next? Bongiorno is going to request another test on the room - six years later? What difference does it make whether the room was cleaned?

There is a confirmed DNA match of Sollecito in Meredith's bedroom - on Meredith's underwear. There were 19 unidentified prints in the same room. What is the Knox/Sollecito claim ... no DNA means that they were never in the room? Really? Knox is claiming that she and Meredith were roommates and friends, yet there's not a trace of her DNA in her friend's room, not even on her own lamp?

Speaking of which, there's no evidence on Meredith's body that she was restrained (zip ties), but apparently the lamp from Amanda's bedroom was moved to Meredith's bedroom. If one person did this alone during the assault, how did that person move the lamp to the other bedroom without more evidence of an altercation? If the lamp was moved to the bedroom after the altercation, how does that explain the only shoe print evidence running down the hall and out the front entrance?
Top Profile 

Offline Emerald


User avatar


Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:53 am

Posts: 1706

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi y'all. I'm stopping by PMF to show support for Justice.
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Next:

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
Maori tells court about presumed sperm spot on pillow under #meredithkercher and how it wasn't tested. #amandaknox

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Tom Kington @tomkington 12:08 AM
Sollecito lawyer Luca Maori wants untested sperm stain on Kercher's pillow tested. Thinks it will add to proof against Rudy Guede.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Next:

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 1m
Atty Maori: Sollecito defense wants forensic tests done on Kercher's pillow and rock used to break window. #amandaknox


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 50s
Dalla Vedova for #amandaknox now addressing court.


Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma 1m
Court hears about bra clasp, blood stains, sperm spots, cell calls, bloody footprints -- deja vu at the #amandaknox re-trial in Florence

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Emerald


User avatar


Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:53 am

Posts: 1706

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

This is fascinating. thanks to all for the translated updates.

How long is this trial expected to last?
Top Profile 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 5m
#sollecito lawyer tells court how computers belonging to #amandaknox et al were destroyed and could have provided valuable evidence.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Tom Kington ‏@tomkington 1m
Knox lawyer suggests coffee break. 'Coffee makes me nervous', says judge, adding there is lots to get through today.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Funny judge.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 4m
Dalla Vedova for #amandaknox now addressing court.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 41s
Dalla Vedova tells court this is a rare case, under scrutiny, never ending, half complaining about italian judicial system.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 9s
#amandaknox atty CDV: That this trial could go on "infinitely" goes against constitutional rights. Can a person be on trial for life?

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 3m
Important to note this is not a retrial but a new appeal #amandaknox and #sollecito are appealing conviction for murder of #meredithkercher
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 41s
Dalla Vedova asks court for a timely decision, not to drag this out too long. #amandaknox

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Careful what you wish for mate!!!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
Ghirga now up for #amandaknox appeal #meredithkercher
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Doesn't look like Anonymous buys her innocence either:

#Anonymous ‏@Autonymousness 30s
I love the way Amanda Knox nods yes but says no when she lies. Psyyyyycccccoooopattttttth

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 39s
Prosecutor Crini convinces judge to take a coffee break for half an hour, then he will speak.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 1m
#amandaknox trial suspended for 30 minutes, prosecution to make arguments at 13:15.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Emerald wrote:
Hi y'all. I'm stopping by PMF to show support for Justice.


Hi Emerald,

Good to see you!
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

This is going to be a very tiring day!!!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
This is going to be a very tiring day!!!


Told you so. They want everything retested, everything reconsidered, basically a new trial and then they ask you to drop it entirely because it takes too long.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

work done and it is not normal

Well, when they were allowed to escape by Hellman it wasn't the result of anything their lawyers had done, it was the result of Hellmann having already decided what he was going to do not matter what he got to hear, it's something that Knox is rssponsible for, because it is her fault; she generates it and wanted her lawyers to do it, get rid of Patrick Lumumba (I obkly accused him of murder) has them try to delete Patrick like the murderers deleted Meredith.

I knew Knox never paid a penny, and her parenmts already earned their own blood money with interviews, hey who thinks they did those interviews, TV shows for free?

Well, when you do not want ther people you are going to give te interview to to reveal the facts, you make a deal, you say if you breach the contract by revealing we were paid, etc, you shall pay me the sum of 50 million dollars, obviously the contract seeker knows the journalist doesn't have that money, but if the contract is breached then the person having to pay, if having no dough, will nonetheless be ruined for life. That's what they did, like well, we've mortgaged our house n all, so, yeah, we need to be paid, we're talking amounts that none of them ever had in their lives, who thinks News Media pay is like 100 dollars, who thinks it can easily amount to hundreds of thousands in a high profile case, and the answer is Me, I think it, they got rich, I reckon.

It is a shame Knox appears to have so much to hide, if she didn't, she'd have shown up, because if she were innocent and as she says, trusts the system, she'd know there was nothing to fear.

So Sollecito having his daily massage around this time, er, I don't think I'll come back right now, I'll see ya ,.... nev va

If he get's found guilty he will not return, but after some time, he will be brought back

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Roll out the straw men:

Nick Squires ‏@NickSquires1 38s
#AmandaKnox retrial in Florence, day one. Defence lawyer ridicules idea that a "Satanic orgy" led to #MeredithKercher's murder.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Emerald


User avatar


Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:53 am

Posts: 1706

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi everyone.

Read Raff was seeking donations for his defense costs, then took a vacation to the Caribbean. Now seeking to maybe move there. Some are now questioning how donations were really spent.
Top Profile 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
work done and it is not normal

Well, when they were allowed to escape by Hellman it wasn't the result of anything their lawyers had done, it wa the result of Hellmann having already decided what he was going to do not matter what he got to hear, it's something that Knox, because it is her, has them try to delete Patrick like the murderers deleted Meredith.

I knew Knox never paid a penny, and her parenmts already earned their own blood money with interviews, hey who thinks they did those interviews, TV shows for free?

Well, when you do not want ther people you are going to give te interview to to reveal the facts, you make a deal, you say if yo breach the contract by revealing we were paid, etc, you shall pay me the sum of 50 million dollars, obviously the contract seeker knows the jjournalist doesn't have that money, but if the contact is breached then the person having to pay, if having no dough will nonetheless be runined for life. That's what they did, like well, we've mortgaged our house n all, so, yeah, we need to be paid, we're talking amounts that none of them ever had in their lives, who thinks New Media pay is like 100 dollars, who thinks it can easily amount to hundreds of thousands in a high profile case, ander is Me, I think it, they got rich, I reckon.

It is a shame Knox appears to have so much to hide, if she didn't, she'd have shown up, because if she were innocent and as she says, trusts the system, she'd know there was nothing to fear

So Sollecito having his daily massage ariound this time, er, I don't think I'll come back right now, I'll see ya ,.... nev va

If he get's found guilty he will not return, but after some time, he will be brought back

First he said he'll be attending the trial, then he was going to arrive later during the trial, now he won't be going back to Italy any time soon. He seems to think everyone is as thick as he is. But he'll be back sooner or later anyway, so let him just have his little vacation...
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
Prosecutor Crini seemingly supports the original crime theory but has very different style from Mignini #amandaknox



Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
Defense lawyers all attentive as prosecutor addresses the court. #amandaknox #meredithkercher



Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 57s
#amandaknox prosecutor Crini cautions against re-hearing evidence just because there are controversial interpretations of trial facts.


Tom Kington ‏@tomkington 3m
Knox prosecutor Crini is rambling. As usual, Sollecito lawyer Bongiorno -- one of Italy's top lawyers - has been best performer.


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 38s
Prosecutor pours scorn over results of independent review in last appeal, implying they weren't so independent after all. #amandaknox


Nick Squires ‏@NickSquires1 25s
Good news for #AmandaKnox. Chief prosecutor in her murder retrial is delivering a waffly, woolly address without direction or bite.


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 26s
Sollecito's father taking furious notes as prosecutor speaks. #amandaknox


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
Prosecutor says time of death for #meredithkercher has been established, no need to revisit, all these new reviews are just more opinions

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Tom Kington ‏@tomkington 1m
Knox prosecutor Crini is rambling. As usual, Sollecito lawyer Bongiorno -- one of Italy's top lawyers - has been best performer.drea Vogt ‏
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 35s
Prosecutor pours scorn over results of independent review in last appeal, implying they weren't so independent after all. #amandaknox
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt now
Prosecutor Crini: Cassation annulled not because elements were missing, but because improper logic used to interpret existing evidence.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 40s
Prosecutor says time of death for #meredithkercher has been established, no need to revisit, all these new reviews are just more opinions
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
Prosecutor gets giggles momentarily after la repubblica journo's phone rings lone ranger tune in courtroom. #amandaknox
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Tom Kington ‏@tomkington 1m
Knox prosecutor Crini hears cell phone in court which plays bugle call and jokes "I'll get to the point." Gets laugh from judge.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
Prosecutor gives explainer on dna and how sometimes dna lasts years and years, how can it be contaminated in just six weeks.#amandaknox
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Emerald


User avatar


Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:53 am

Posts: 1706

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:

Hi Emerald,

Good to see you!


Howdy. The trial is scheduled thru Oct and Nov with a decision expected in early December.
Top Profile 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 39s
Prosecutor Crini uses lots of body language as he speaks, he is new face on this familiar scene, lay judges concentrating.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Just rejoining the PMF team after only a few hours of sleep. Thanks to everyone for updates!

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 5m
#amandaknox prosecutor Clini requesting that additional DNA testing be done on knife using newer, more sensitive instrumentation.
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 13s
Prosecutor done, now lawyers for family of #meredithkercher up #amandaknox

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Emerald


User avatar


Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:53 am

Posts: 1706

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 13s
Prosecutor done, now lawyers for family of #meredithkercher up #amandaknox


Meredith's Family and loved ones. Strength and peace to them.
Top Profile 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Meanwhile, Raffie on TODAY (no video clip yet):

TODAY ‏@TODAYshow 57m
"It's not her fault what is happening. It's a big huge mistake." - Raffaele Sollecito to @SavannahGuthrie on Amanda Knox & third trial.

TODAY ‏@TODAYshow 1h
"I still live in a nightmare." - Raffaele Sollecito to @SavannahGuthrie on facing trial a third time in Italy.

TODAY ‏@TODAYshow 57m
"We are innocent and we are fighting for our innocence." -Raffaele Sollecito tells @SavannahGuthrie why he will go back to Italy for trial.

https://twitter.com/TODAYshow
Top Profile 

Offline ollie


Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:51 am

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So glad that this appeal (not trial is now underway). Sounds as if the court will thorough, reasoned and fair. Thinking of the Kercher family today...may Italy serve the dignity and memory of Meredith for the future and find some justice for them.

That Knox & Solleciito can remain at a distance is dreadful.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 31s
Lawyers for #meredithkercher reiterates support for prosecutor and intention to also point out irregularities in appeal #amandaknox


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau now
Two lay judges whispering between them as #meredithkercher lawyer Maresca speaks. #amandaknox


Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 13s
Kercher attny Maresca to court: Defence requests are just the same old arguments specially remixed for you. #amandaknox


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 23s
Judge in #amandaknox is tough as nails on lawyers, has deep baritone voice like a singer. #meredithkercher


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 17s
Pacelli speaking on #lumumba's behalf. #amandaknox #meredithkercher



Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 29s
Lumumba lawyer says #amandaknox was the first to mention #meredithkercher scream, now they don't want it as evidence, he ask#


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 29s
Lumumba lawyer says #amandaknox was the first to mention #meredithkercher scream, now they don't want it as evidence, he asks

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Omicidio Meredith, parte processo appello.
Lumumba: "Amanda in fuga? È colpevole"

10 minuti fa
http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2013/0 ... -67567507/

(google trans)
Lawyer Kercher: "Defendants were on the scene of the crime." "We are still convinced of the presence of all three defendants at the crime scene," said Francesco Maresca, lawyer for the family of Meredith Kercher. "I think (Amanda Knox, ed)'re talking too much, frankly, and this continual attitude in making the victim is inappropriate," added the lawyer. ''The only way in which our pain and our suffering will soon start to be alleviated, is to get a clearer understanding of the tragic events of November 1, 2007'' is written in a letter to the lawyer Maresca by Meredith Kercher's sister, Stephanie, where she explains the reasons, related to the health of the parents, who did not allow his family to take part in the process in Florence. "We are confident that the evidence will be reviewed and that they are given all further requests for evidence - it says - so that all the unanswered questions are clarified and that the court can decide on the next steps in this tragic case. We need to know - you concludes the text - what happened, and Meredith deserves at least the dignity of truth. "


Last edited by Ava on Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox not in court for Meredith Kercher murder retrial in Florence - VIDEO
(Sollecito's dad arriving in court in the company of the family lawyer, Francesco Mastro)

Francesco Sollecito and Francesco Maresca speak to reporters.

THE GUARDIAN
Top Profile 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Tom Kington ‏@tomkington 5m
After Kercher prosecutor Crini plays down need for new evidence tests, Kercher lawyer Maresca calls Nara Capezzale a 'marvellous' witness.

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
Pacelli speaking on #lumumba's behalf. #amandaknox #meredithkercher

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
Judge in #amandaknox is tough as nails on lawyers, has deep baritone voice like a singer. #meredithkercher


Last edited by Ava on Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Nadeau appears to be tweeting from the press room, so more up to date.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
Lumumba lawyer says #amandaknox was the first to mention #meredithkercher scream, now they don't want it as evidence, he asks
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

@AndreaVogt appears to have a good feel for how trial going. The hack Tom Kington says Crini rambling, wooly. Sheep bite too, Tom. I got a good feeling about Judge Nencini. Aviello to be recalled.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 12s
Back to bongiorno, rebuttal round.. Says she wants to take knife apart for further tests #amandaknox #meredithkercher


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 49s
Dalla vedova up, says they need to clarify Aviello testimony,hear from him again? #amandaknox #meredithkercher


Tom Kington ‏@tomkington 19m
After Kercher prosecutor Crini plays down need for new evidence tests, Kercher lawyer Maresca calls Nara Capezzale a 'marvellous' witness.


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau now
Break now until 5:30 while they deliberate requests.. #amandaknox #meredithkercher

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Raffaele Sollecito: Murder retrial 'destroying my life'. (VIDEO)

http://www.today.com/video/today/53144379/#53144411

Amanda Knox ex-boyfriend on retrial: ‘I still live in a nightmare’

Sollecito’s American lawyer, John Q. Kelly, said he expects his client’s legal battle to continue indefinitely.

“You’re not going to see any finality here regardless of what this appellate court decides. It’s going to go back up to the Supreme Court again and probably back down again, too,” he told Guthrie. “It’s going to be a never-ending fight.”


TODAY

'They destroyed my life': Raffaelle Sollecito says he does not see a future or end to the 'nightmare' as Meredith Kercher murder retrial begins in Italy
By Rachel Quigley

DAILY MAIL
Top Profile 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Florence Court video (La Repubblica)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=n9xebM_Wv5A

Quote:
The appeal will be heard by a panel composed of Judge Alessandro Nencini, his assistant judge and eight jurors [6 regular lay judges + 2 alternates/substitutes], five women and three men. Over 200 media passes have been requested and TV cameras are being kept outside the building.


ABC NEWS
Top Profile 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

No DNA evidence to place Amanda Knox at the murder scene
By Nick Squires

“How is it possible to find traces of Guede in enormous quantities but not a single trace of Amanda?” Ms Bongiorno, one of Italy’s top lawyers, asked.

“How is it possible that the only trace of Raffaele, which naturally we contest, was on the bra strap?”

Tiny traces of Mr Sollecito’s DNA were found on a strap torn from Miss Kercher’s bra.

But it was only found by forensic officers 46 days after the Leeds University student’s murder.

Defence lawyers maintain that it was inadvertently scuffed around the bedroom and subject to so much DNA contamination that it cannot be admitted as reliable evidence.

“We hope that this will be the last phase of this trial and we hope that it will concentrate solely and exclusively on the reliable evidence and not on conjecture,” Ms Bongiorno told the court.


THE TELEGRAPH

If there were traces of Amanda Knox's DNA in the "murder room", Bongiorno would have said: "Amanda had been in Meredith's room before; she lived there; her traces don't prove anything."
Top Profile 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stephanie Kercher's Letter to the President of the Appeals Court, Alessandro Nencini
(Image: courtesy of Massimo Solani via Twitter)

Image

https://twitter.com/massimosolani
Top Profile 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma 19m

Quote:
Lawyers on both sides agree on re-examination of knife, but not on examination of sperm spots. #amandaknox #meredithkercher
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A translation of Stephanie Kercher's letter to the court:

Thanks to Tiziano from .org for the quick translation (Original post)

Quote:
A translation of Stephanie's letter.


Dear Dr Nencini,

We have talked a lot in our family in order to come to make the difficult decision not to come to Italy for the beginning of the trial. My mother is in dialysis three times a week and this has an enormous impact on her health. My father has had two strokes in the past. This period is particularly stressful for us all and we desperately want to discover the truth and find justice for Meredith, who was taken away from us so brutally and unnecessarily. We have thus decided to support each other in the family here in the UK and to follow the trial from here, keeping close contact with lawyer Francesco Maresca and his colleagues.

We are confident that the evidence will be re-examined and that all the other requests for tests will be allowed, so that all the unanswered questions may be clarified and that the Court may decide on the next actions in this tragic case. These have been the six most difficult years of our lives and we want to be able to find a conclusion and remember Meredith as the really marvellous girl who she was, rather than remembering the horror associated with her.

It is a continuous battle every single day, struggling with our emotions, happy memories and desperately sad ones, and the only way in which our pain and suffering can at least begin to to be alleviated is to come to a clearer understanding of the tragic events of November 1st, 2007. Nothing can bring back our beautiful Meredith, and we keep her in our hearts always and in our memory, but we need to know what happened and she deserves at least the dignity of the truth.

Thanking you in anticipation,

Yours sincerely,


Stephanie Kercher and Family
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Quote:
Kathleen Gadalof @kathleengadalof

I have just interviewed the prosecutor Mignini from the first trial and will report later tonight from TJMK.

https://twitter.com/kathleengadalof/sta ... 4230552576
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Good morning all. Just catching up. Jester, I caught your comment above about Knox and Sollecito 'running around the cottage'..... It would certainly explain any forensic evidence found, if any were discovered outside. I didn't want your comment to pass unnoticed in all of the postings. Good point.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline LUFC1972


User avatar


Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:36 pm

Posts: 80

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks all for the updates and translations. Thoughts are with Meredith's family.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

Posts: 1564

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Decision time!
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 3m
Judge in #amandaknox appeal is denying defence requests to reopen debate on a number of points.


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 3m
Judge back in court, rejecting much of what was requested, no check on pillow sperm, reserves right to decide on some other items.


Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma 59s
Judge adjourns #meredithkercher murder re-trial to Friday, October 4th, after requesting a new forensic exam on knife. #amandaknox


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 3m
The judge ruled yes to aviello testiminy, yes to reexamine the knife. #amandaknox #meredithkercher

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Are they saying pillow stain or pillow sperm... I didn't think it was tested so how do they know what kind of stain?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Okay, so it looks like Aviello: IN, Knife retest: IN. Pretty much everything else: OUT

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 4m
Judge ruled yes to look at photo of raf's fingernails after arrest to see if he could have removed bra clasp. #amandaknox #meredithkercher


Oh, come on, Raffaele could have cut his nails between the 1st and 5th/6th Nov!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 3m
Judge back in court, rejecting much of what was requested, no check on pillow sperm, reserves right to decide on some other items.


cl-) cl-) cl-) Oh yes, no-nonsense judge, they call him.
Top Profile 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The nail thing is silly IMO.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:31 pm   Post subject: UPDATE   

Writer Kathleen Gadalof (Mason) writing for all the Meredith Kercher community on TJMK and tweeting @kgadalof

Site seems to be down, but here's her 1st update:

Quote:
Hello, am writing during the break as no wifi for my computer. I will fix this by end of week.
The Court opened with the President reading the case. All the events of the night of the murder of Meredith and then the reasoning of the Supreme Court.
The media is there i spoke to the Fox news reporter and The Daily Telegraph London.
The most gracious and kind to me were the tow reporters from Porta a Porta. Dr Vittoriana Abate and her colleague. I noticed her file was marked in very large letters in pink MEREDITH.
First a letter was read by Avv Maresca from the Kercher family.
The reading of the case file took a long time.
Who is present Dr Sollecito who has said Raff will attend lated probably 23 - 24 the October dates. He is very polite to the media.
Patrick Lamumba and his lawyer Carlo Pacelli arrived about 11.30am and took their place behind Avv, Maresca for the Kercher family.
The arguments commence with Bongiorno in extremely forceful and very strong voice at time almost shouting at the Judges her argument.
First was the little bra clasp. She said she believed that the Supreme Court was mistaken and fell down on this point.
She asked for a fresh examination of the clasp as she says there is other dna on it and she spent a lot of time going over what she described as the failure of the Scientific Police to examine the crime scene and preserve it.
She spent a lot of time arguing about the 46 days it was lying in the room. It was not collected form its original place as photos proved. She is trying to create reasonable doubt.
Avv Maori also address the court.
Then spoke Avv Della Vedova who argued very strongly but not like Bongiorno i heard his start with the long long process and referred to poor Amanda. He was conveying what theis process is doing to her.
He hope and prays that this time she will be acquitted once again and that will be the end of it.
Ghiriga was speaking just before lunch break and reiterating their argument for Amanda to be found not guilty.
I counted 5 lady judges on the panel.
It was possible to tweet this morning @kgadalof
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
The nail thing is silly IMO.



Well, wasn't the bra and clasp ripped and cut silly, supposedly demonstrating Sollecito's inability to remove it properly anyway? Therefore, his short nails, if he had them, would serve only to strengthen that argument!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 39s
Caribinieri RIS will retest knife for trace DNA in #amandaknox case, judge rules.


Fantastic!!!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Bongiorno "Shouting". Yep, that's what she was doing #Cassazione and see where that got her. Trust Nick Squires to call that 'the best lawyer there'
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 3m
Judge in #amandaknox appeal grants prosecution request to hear testimony from mafia turncoat Luciano Aviello. Friday.


Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 2m
Judge rejected all defence motions to reopen debate on #amandaknox case. The knife will be tested for trace DNA.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

Posts: 1564

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
dgfred wrote:
The nail thing is silly IMO.

Well, wasn't the bra and clasp ripped and cut silly, supposedly demonstrating Sollecito's inability to remove it properly anyway? Therefore, his short nails, if he had them, would serve only to strengthen that argument!

Are we sure it was a defense request? Seems very silly if it was. If it was a prosecution request then maybe there is something to see (broken nails?). Also interesting that the Caribinieri will retest the knife now.
Top Profile 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A few more details here I think:

Tom Kington ‏@tomkington 24m
Kercher judge accepts new test of unexamined trace on alleged murder weapon. Experts to be named on Oct 4.

Tom Kington ‏@tomkington 24m
Kercher judge rejects all evidence requests from defence except pic of Raffaele's bitten fingers to show he couldn't unpick bra.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline The Machine


Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:43 pm

Posts: 2306

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 39s
Caribinieri RIS will retest knife for trace DNA in #amandaknox case, judge rules.


Fantastic!!!


My sentiments exactly. If it is Meredith's DNA on the blade of the knife - and I think it is - it will be a game changer in more ways than one. It will be make it much easier to extradite Knox and it will change the media and public's perception of the case in America.
Top Profile 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

THANKS Ava.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Twas expected the carabinieri will retest knife. SC said so.
Also, recall Aviello.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The nail thing will prove nothing. It is just a photograph, and the court just threw defense a bone.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:10 pm   Post subject: JUDGES ENTER COURT   

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=n9xebM_Wv5A[/youtube]
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
dgfred wrote:
The nail thing is silly IMO.



Well, wasn't the bra and clasp ripped and cut silly, supposedly demonstrating Sollecito's inability to remove it properly anyway? Therefore, his short nails, if he had them, would serve only to strengthen that argument!


Is the theory that: women with short nails are unable to manage bra clasps? What a funny point to argue!
Top Profile 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:37 pm   Post subject: Re: JUDGES ENTER COURT   

Ergon wrote:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=n9xebM_Wv5A[/youtube]


It's only a matter of time before we start reading (elsewhere) about the funny outfits that are worn by the Judges in the courtroom.
Top Profile 

Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Michael wrote:
dgfred wrote:
The nail thing is silly IMO.



Well, wasn't the bra and clasp ripped and cut silly, supposedly demonstrating Sollecito's inability to remove it properly anyway? Therefore, his short nails, if he had them, would serve only to strengthen that argument!


Is the theory that: women with short nails are unable to manage bra clasps? What a funny point to argue!


On the face of it, it does seem a bit silly. However, if this is a defense request, doesn't this open the door for the prosecution to re-examine it also, and perhaps present other scenarios?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
A few more details here I think:

Tom Kington ‏@tomkington 24m
Kercher judge accepts new test of unexamined trace on alleged murder weapon. Experts to be named on Oct 4.

Tom Kington ‏@tomkington 24m
Kercher judge rejects all evidence requests from defence except pic of Raffaele's bitten fingers to show he couldn't unpick bra.



Yes, so he cut it off, seems to me.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Jester wrote:
Michael wrote:
dgfred wrote:
The nail thing is silly IMO.



Well, wasn't the bra and clasp ripped and cut silly, supposedly demonstrating Sollecito's inability to remove it properly anyway? Therefore, his short nails, if he had them, would serve only to strengthen that argument!


Is the theory that: women with short nails are unable to manage bra clasps? What a funny point to argue!


On the face of it, it does seem a bit silly. However, if this is a defense request, doesn't this open the door for the prosecution to re-examine it also, and perhaps present other scenarios?


So perhaps it's a back door attempt to have the bra clasp re-examined?
Top Profile 

Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Jester wrote:
Michael wrote:
dgfred wrote:
The nail thing is silly IMO.



Well, wasn't the bra and clasp ripped and cut silly, supposedly demonstrating Sollecito's inability to remove it properly anyway? Therefore, his short nails, if he had them, would serve only to strengthen that argument!


Is the theory that: women with short nails are unable to manage bra clasps? What a funny point to argue!


On the face of it, it does seem a bit silly. However, if this is a defense request, doesn't this open the door for the prosecution to re-examine it also, and perhaps present other scenarios?


So perhaps it's a back door attempt to have the bra clasp re-examined?


I would not call it a 'back door' exactly. After all, the defense brought it up, didn't they?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:58 pm   Post subject: Re: UPDATE   

Ergon wrote:
Writer Kathleen Gadalof (Mason) writing for all the Meredith Kercher community on TJMK and tweeting @kgadalof

Site seems to be down, but here's her 1st update:

Quote:
Hello, am writing during the break as no wifi for my computer. I will fix this by end of week.
The Court opened with the President reading the case. All the events of the night of the murder of Meredith and then the reasoning of the Supreme Court.
The media is there i spoke to the Fox news reporter and The Daily Telegraph London.
The most gracious and kind to me were the tow reporters from Porta a Porta. Dr Vittoriana Abate and her colleague. I noticed her file was marked in very large letters in pink MEREDITH.
First a letter was read by Avv Maresca from the Kercher family.
The reading of the case file took a long time.
Who is present Dr Sollecito who has said Raff will attend lated probably 23 - 24 the October dates. He is very polite to the media.
Patrick Lamumba and his lawyer Carlo Pacelli arrived about 11.30am and took their place behind Avv, Maresca for the Kercher family.
The arguments commence with Bongiorno in extremely forceful and very strong voice at time almost shouting at the Judges her argument.
First was the little bra clasp. She said she believed that the Supreme Court was mistaken and fell down on this point.
She asked for a fresh examination of the clasp as she says there is other dna on it and she spent a lot of time going over what she described as the failure of the Scientific Police to examine the crime scene and preserve it.
She spent a lot of time arguing about the 46 days it was lying in the room. It was not collected form its original place as photos proved. She is trying to create reasonable doubt.
Avv Maori also address the court.
Then spoke Avv Della Vedova who argued very strongly but not like Bongiorno i heard his start with the long long process and referred to poor Amanda. He was conveying what theis process is doing to her.
He hope and prays that this time she will be acquitted once again and that will be the end of it.
Ghiriga was speaking just before lunch break and reiterating their argument for Amanda to be found not guilty.
I counted 5 lady judges on the panel.
It was possible to tweet this morning @kgadalof



But the old white-haired guy's behaviour is unacceptable as lawyer. You are there to defend a client, you are not their uncle, in Britain and most countries, teachers are not allowed to lay hands on the pupils, and interact in unprofessional ways, like touchy feely, and all of that. The man is just playing on simplistic sentiment, because after all, any individual in a court on trial is going to want to have people saying, oh poor old Mr Jones, poor old Mrs Smith, poor old Ms Knox, however, that is ridiiculous because (there are serious reasons why you are there it isn't the hairdresser's) the very nature of a courtroom is to procees with the hearing of people and evidence in order to be able to evaluate everything to get to the truth and make a good ruling.

The journalists like Squires, Kington who has a famous dad and slid into the role but has never had a cutting edge thing to say, klso residing in Italy, well, all of them to my mind live simply a lovely old life, away from the cold, there among the vineyards, and delicious food and mostly very kind Italian people, special creative people, yet to me the journalist, almost all of them have no idea what's going on.

Good that Knox and Sollecito aren't there, they only commit the offence of play acting in court.


Psycho Crusoe: Waitress, get me another cocktail and make it fast, I'm running out of time

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Top Profile 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Jester wrote:

So perhaps it's a back door attempt to have the bra clasp re-examined?


I would not call it a 'back door' exactly. After all, the defense brought it up, didn't they?


Where do you think the defence is going with it? Suppose the photo of Raffaele's fingernails illustrates that he chews his nails. Suppose it is actually true that one requires long finger nails to operate a bra clasp (untrue). I don't understand what the outcome will be? Couldn't it also be concluded that Raffaele was so nervous after the murder that he chewed his fingernail altogether off - score one for the prosecution?
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Machine wrote:
Michael wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 39s
Caribinieri RIS will retest knife for trace DNA in #amandaknox case, judge rules.


Fantastic!!!


My sentiments exactly. If it is Meredith's DNA on the blade of the knife - and I think it is - it will be a game changer in more ways than one. It will be make it much easier to extradite Knox and it will change the media and public's perception of the case in America.



What's just as excellent, is it it'll be done by the RIS of the Carabinieri, so it'll be done properly. No more dodgy "independent" experts!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Today was an absolute unmitigated disaster for the defence. Every single one of their requests, except for one, was refused. Justice will be swift!!!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

@andreavogt says "Mafia turncoat Aviello to testify Friday" WOW.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Who next? Rudy Guede?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Jester wrote:

So perhaps it's a back door attempt to have the bra clasp re-examined?


I would not call it a 'back door' exactly. After all, the defense brought it up, didn't they?


Where do you think the defence is going with it? Suppose the photo of Raffaele's fingernails illustrates that he chews his nails. Suppose it is actually true that one requires long finger nails to operate a bra clasp (untrue). I don't understand what the outcome will be? Couldn't it also be concluded that Raffaele was so nervous after the murder that he chewed his fingernail altogether off - score one for the prosecution?


I don't know where the defense is going. It's one of those things that needs to roll around awhile before it makes sense to me. From what I see, initially, Twitter response is all lit up with the fact that this is really a stupid, silly request. Nobody uses fingernails to open a bra. I agree. The defense is not this short-sighted, IMO.
The defense claimed contamination. Examining Raffaele's fingernails does nothing to advance the argument for contamination. So, what's the point? Must be one.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline The Machine


Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:43 pm

Posts: 2306

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
The Machine wrote:
Michael wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 39s
Caribinieri RIS will retest knife for trace DNA in #amandaknox case, judge rules.


Fantastic!!!


My sentiments exactly. If it is Meredith's DNA on the blade of the knife - and I think it is - it will be a game changer in more ways than one. It will be make it much easier to extradite Knox and it will change the media and public's perception of the case in America.



What's just as excellent, is it it'll be done by the RIS of the Carabinieri, so it'll be done properly. No more dodgy "independent" experts!


Carla Vecchiotti did her level best to get Knox and Sollecito off the hook. She must have known full well that there was a very good chance that the remaining DNA belonged to Meredith and that's why she refused to follow Hellmann's instruction to carry out the test.
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Who next? Rudy Guede?


The defence wanted him to be recalled, but the judge refused. As he refused all their requests, except for one.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

For anyone that forgot about the role of Aviello (like me):

"Then two fellow inmates at his prison near Genoa testified for the prosecution that [Aviello] had told them that the Sollecitos had offered or paid large bribes for any false testimony helpful to their boy getting sprung.

Extraordinarily, Judge Hellmann brushed all of this under the rug, and hurried on to other matters less embarrassing to the Sollecitos and Bongiorno. This REALLY caught Cassation’s attention as there have been strong suspicions in Perugia and Rome that Hellmann and/or Zanetti were in the pocket of one of the families."

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tj ... _decimate/
Top Profile 

Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Posts: 615

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
max wrote:
"I have a chance to confront Guede in court." She says right after explaining that she is not coming :roll:
http://www.firenzepost.it/2013/09/29/om ... a-firenze/



Thanks, Max. Here's a GOOGLE TRANSLATION of that:


Amanda , you will not be there circus
Meredith murder , trial begins tomorrow in Florence

Massimiliano Mantiloni - Sunday, 29 September 2013 15:53 ​​- report


FLORENCE - Amanda Knox there will be : "Do not go back to Italy because my presence has always been a distraction in the classroom. Every single movement I made , every expression on my face was analyzed and distracted by the presentation and analysis of evidence. It ' amazing how many times we talked about what I wore , how I acconciavo hair or if sorridessi or not my parents respect to the evidence of the case. I will not go to avoid that circus . "

On the eve of the first hearing of the appeal trial in Florence for the murder of Meredith Kercher , the young American gave an interview published in Corriere Fiorentino , the back room of the Corriere della Sera. However, responding to a question on the judges of Florence that tomorrow will review his position and that of Raffaele Sollecito , says : "I have a chance to confront Guede in court ." Rudy Guede is the young Ivorian already sentenced to 16 years on summary judgment for the murder of via della Pergola in Perugia on the night between 1 and 2 November 2007 . "It 's amazing how Guede has fared if we consider the evidence against him," says Knox pointing out that the young Ivorian has provided different versions to shift responsibilities to her and Sollecito . And speaking of the former boyfriend , Amanda also commented on a passage from the book written by him and in which he talks about his refusal to urge a sort of invitation to involve her , perhaps obtaining an advantage . A fact that Amanda says she has not known before: " That simple episode of courageous humanity has left me speechless and says a lot about the person in that circumstance is able to do such a thing ."

So criticizes the Italian justice : "In an Italian court Amanda Knox -says - it is impossible or very difficult. Why do not you try going to the charge if they are guilty , it's up to me to prove that I'm innocent. I'm the one that the disadvantaged party in this case. It was built my own image as that of a young ruthless liar , a sleeve sexual murderer. What fascinated people . "

Wait at Seattle University news on the first hearing of the new appeals process . "And ' worried - said lawyer Luciano Ghirga - aware that because it is a fundamental step for her . It 'still serene because I aware of his innocence . "

Clear but slightly nervous about the importance of the appointment also appeared Raffaele Sollecito to his lawyer , the lawyer Giulia Bongiorno . The young man from Puglia is on vacation in the Caribbean and in recent days the father explained that he will return to what should be the key of the appeal hearings bis, at the end of October.

Every clown deserves a circus..ha.
Top Profile 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Jester wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Jester wrote:

So perhaps it's a back door attempt to have the bra clasp re-examined?


I would not call it a 'back door' exactly. After all, the defense brought it up, didn't they?


Where do you think the defence is going with it? Suppose the photo of Raffaele's fingernails illustrates that he chews his nails. Suppose it is actually true that one requires long finger nails to operate a bra clasp (untrue). I don't understand what the outcome will be? Couldn't it also be concluded that Raffaele was so nervous after the murder that he chewed his fingernail altogether off - score one for the prosecution?


I don't know where the defense is going. It's one of those things that needs to roll around awhile before it makes sense to me. From what I see, initially, Twitter response is all lit up with the fact that this is really a stupid, silly request. Nobody uses fingernails to open a bra. I agree. The defense is not this short-sighted, IMO.
The defense claimed contamination. Examining Raffaele's fingernails does nothing to advance the argument for contamination. So, what's the point? Must be one.


Thanks. You're quite right about there being some point to this - some strange connection that isn't obvious to anyone at this time.
Top Profile 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

No one should overestimate the 'brilliance' of Bongiorno. She wasn't even the main lawyer in the Andreotti case, just one of them. Smacks of #desperation.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Machine wrote:
Michael wrote:
The Machine wrote:
Michael wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 39s
Caribinieri RIS will retest knife for trace DNA in #amandaknox case, judge rules.


Fantastic!!!


My sentiments exactly. If it is Meredith's DNA on the blade of the knife - and I think it is - it will be a game changer in more ways than one. It will be make it much easier to extradite Knox and it will change the media and public's perception of the case in America.



What's just as excellent, is it it'll be done by the RIS of the Carabinieri, so it'll be done properly. No more dodgy "independent" experts!


Carla Vecchiotti did her level best to get Knox and Sollecito off the hook. She must have known full well that there was a very good chance that the remaining DNA belonged to Meredith and that's why she refused to follow Hellmann's instruction to carry out the test.



That's EXACTLY why she refused to test it, no other reason!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Jester wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Jester wrote:

So perhaps it's a back door attempt to have the bra clasp re-examined?


I would not call it a 'back door' exactly. After all, the defense brought it up, didn't they?


Where do you think the defence is going with it? Suppose the photo of Raffaele's fingernails illustrates that he chews his nails. Suppose it is actually true that one requires long finger nails to operate a bra clasp (untrue). I don't understand what the outcome will be? Couldn't it also be concluded that Raffaele was so nervous after the murder that he chewed his fingernail altogether off - score one for the prosecution?


I don't know where the defense is going. It's one of those things that needs to roll around awhile before it makes sense to me. From what I see, initially, Twitter response is all lit up with the fact that this is really a stupid, silly request. Nobody uses fingernails to open a bra. I agree. The defense is not this short-sighted, IMO.
The defense claimed contamination. Examining Raffaele's fingernails does nothing to advance the argument for contamination. So, what's the point? Must be one.



Fortunately, five of the judges are women, so they will know this.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
No one should overestimate the 'brilliance' of Bongiorno. She wasn't even the main lawyer in the Andreotti case, just one of them. Smacks of #desperation.


No, I wouldn't call her brilliant. But, if you're down 5 and it's 4th and long with 5 seconds to go and you want to throw a Hail Mary, any ninny would at least peek to see that the opposing team isn't in a better position to receive.
There are always hazards in requesting the review of evidence. Both sides get a new peek. I'm just not ready to label this as desperate yet.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Posts: 615

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
That one is good:

Quote:
Patricia Thomas @MozzarellaMamma

#Knox Defense Lawyer says they are offended by accusations that Amanda is talking too much to the press, as appeal 2 starts in Florence

https://twitter.com/MozzarellaMamma/sta ... 5285889024

Haaaaa
Top Profile 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Meanwhile, Papa Doc is putting on a brave face:
"Before the trial, Francesco Sollecito, Raffaele's father, told the Guardian he was hoping the court would reopen the case by "360 degrees". On Monday night he said that, although he was disappointed the court had rejected most of the defence requests, he was "quite satisfied" with its decisions."


Amanda Knox retrial: judge allows new DNA test on alleged murder weapon
Judge accepts request to run tests on tiny DNA trace previously ignored because it was thought too small to be of use
Lizzy Davies in Rome and agencies
The Guardian, Monday 30 September 2013 19.37 BST
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/s ... der-weapon
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Jester wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Jester wrote:

So perhaps it's a back door attempt to have the bra clasp re-examined?


I would not call it a 'back door' exactly. After all, the defense brought it up, didn't they?


Where do you think the defence is going with it? Suppose the photo of Raffaele's fingernails illustrates that he chews his nails. Suppose it is actually true that one requires long finger nails to operate a bra clasp (untrue). I don't understand what the outcome will be? Couldn't it also be concluded that Raffaele was so nervous after the murder that he chewed his fingernail altogether off - score one for the prosecution?


I don't know where the defense is going. It's one of those things that needs to roll around awhile before it makes sense to me. From what I see, initially, Twitter response is all lit up with the fact that this is really a stupid, silly request. Nobody uses fingernails to open a bra. I agree. The defense is not this short-sighted, IMO.
The defense claimed contamination. Examining Raffaele's fingernails does nothing to advance the argument for contamination. So, what's the point? Must be one.


Thanks. You're quite right about there being some point to this - some strange connection that isn't obvious to anyone at this time.


I'm curious to hear about that, too...
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Meredith, si riparte dal dna
Nuova perizia sul coltello

Cronache
30/09/2013, 24 minuti fa
http://www.lastampa.it/2013/09/30/itali ... agina.html

(googletrans)
"The trace of DNA on which it will be provided for the scientific examination so far has not been analyzed because, unlike the others, was considered by the experts " in quantities not sufficient to provide a reliable result .'' Now the Court requests that the assessment is made ​​, however : it will be for the courts to assess the relevance of the results. Aviello is a former collaborator of justice and was a cellmate of Sollecito . The purpose of his call is purely procedural : the Supreme Court has in fact criticized the decision of the Court of Appeal of Perugia , which did not call him to testify again after she had recanted the allegations to his brother - that have cost survey for slander - referred to as the perpetrator of the homicide Meredith . The Court also ordered the acquisition of photos of the hands of Sollecito , attached to the statement of defense , from which it appears that eats nails , given that the defense may consider relevant regarding the possibility that leave traces of DNA .

The decisions of the Court of Assizes of Florence have been welcomed both by the defenders of the accused , either by the Attorney General . Sollecito " was pleased with the deepening of evidence on the knife - he said his lawyer , the lawyer Giulia Bongiorno - because it deepens more and more truth emerges and then his innocence .""


Last edited by Ava on Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Fancy going back to court, and the very things that the Supreme Court had unerlines as being of vital importance to consider, you as lawyer start trying to discredit, if you indeed do think something is unimportant or not right, you are supposed to set out a reasoned, well-reasoned and substantiated set of point and then explain them without upsetting the higher-up in the line of authority, shouting at them like a stupid spoilt know-it-all ignorant beat, doesn't cut the mustard, the new sitting, are fuly aware of the evidence and the significance ior irrelevance of it, but continuing in the typical let's simply undermine everyone and everything strategy, ain't getting you invited to any parties.


It's exactly this behaviour that I bet they are determined to cut out, becauee they are there to uphold justice not allow oeople to makea mockery of it.

Bongiorno and Knox's lot aren't that sharp to start on again with that same hollow logic crap.

Why do they strain at gnats?

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nails don't matter IMO... he grabbed the bra clasp and either ripped it or cut it. Most likely cut IMO as he seems a weakling (like the door).
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Meredith, si riparte dal dna
Nuova perizia sul coltello

Cronache
30/09/2013, 24 minuti fa
http://www.lastampa.it/2013/09/30/itali ... agina.html

(googletrans)
The trace of DNA on which it will be provided for the scientific examination so far has not been analyzed because, unlike the others, was considered by the experts " in quantities not sufficient to provide a reliable result .'' Now the Court requests that the assessment is made ​​, however : it will be for the courts to assess the relevance of the results. Aviello is a former collaborator of justice and was a cellmate of Sollecito . The purpose of his call is purely procedural : the Supreme Court has in fact criticized the decision of the Court of Appeal of Perugia , which did not call him to testify again after she had recanted the allegations to his brother - that have cost survey for slander - referred to as the perpetrator of the homicide Meredith . The Court also ordered the acquisition of photos of the hands of Sollecito , attached to the statement of defense , from which it appears that eats nails , given that the defense may consider relevant regarding the possibility that leave traces of DNA .

The decisions of the Court of Assizes of Florence have been welcomed both by the defenders of the accused , either by the Attorney General . Sollecito " was pleased with the deepening of evidence on the knife - he said his lawyer , the lawyer Giulia Bongiorno - because it deepens more and more truth emerges and then his innocence ."


That's a new one! The defence is suggesting that nail biters eat their skin cells rather than discard them? Maybe Sollecito ate Knox's skin cells too.
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Worked all day Sunday and through the night until 12 midday Monday so had to sleep this afternoon, just woke up at 7 in the evening so I'm out of sync with the proceedings/events of the day.

Excuse me

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
That's a new one! The defence is suggesting that nail biters eat their skin cells rather than discard them? Maybe Sollecito ate Knox's skin cells too.


Yeah, it's pretty desperate, but what else have the defence got? Nowt! But, when given lemons...

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Ava wrote:
Meredith, si riparte dal dna
Nuova perizia sul coltello

Cronache
30/09/2013, 24 minuti fa
http://www.lastampa.it/2013/09/30/itali ... agina.html

(googletrans)
The trace of DNA on which it will be provided for the scientific examination so far has not been analyzed because, unlike the others, was considered by the experts " in quantities not sufficient to provide a reliable result .'' Now the Court requests that the assessment is made ​​, however : it will be for the courts to assess the relevance of the results. Aviello is a former collaborator of justice and was a cellmate of Sollecito . The purpose of his call is purely procedural : the Supreme Court has in fact criticized the decision of the Court of Appeal of Perugia , which did not call him to testify again after she had recanted the allegations to his brother - that have cost survey for slander - referred to as the perpetrator of the homicide Meredith . The Court also ordered the acquisition of photos of the hands of Sollecito , attached to the statement of defense , from which it appears that eats nails , given that the defense may consider relevant regarding the possibility that leave traces of DNA .

The decisions of the Court of Assizes of Florence have been welcomed both by the defenders of the accused , either by the Attorney General . Sollecito " was pleased with the deepening of evidence on the knife - he said his lawyer , the lawyer Giulia Bongiorno - because it deepens more and more truth emerges and then his innocence ."


That's a new one! The defence is suggesting that nail biters eat their skin cells rather than discard them? Maybe Sollecito ate Knox's skin cells too.


It reads to me that, because he chews his nails, he is creating more possibilities of leaving his trail of DNA in other places, thus providing for more opportunities for the crime scene investigators to pick up his DNA and contaminate evidence.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

And Candace Dempsey forlornly Tweets:

Candace Dempsey ‏@Candace_Dempsey 2m
Amanda Knox: Judge Orders New Knife test, hostile to every defense request. #Amandaknox #Meredith http://buff.ly/16aKbe5

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The only thing that makes me nervous about the order to retest the knife, is that it suggests that a conviction is dependent upon it, or more to the point, what is or isn't found on it.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I personally see no need for a re-test. If is is not found there we will hear the roar of NO DNA of Meredith on the knife. I wish it was left out anyway... plenty there without it.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Posts: 615

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
jhansigirl wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Oh the climber guy, where they got him?

They got him fresh off of Mount Annapurna, asking hey, you seem like an ordinary guy, want a job, because you seem just like this guy who never climbed a rock, or even threw one, in his entire life.


Hi Zorba,

I don't think they introduced the climber by name, but he wears a t-shirt with advertising from a Perugian climbing club on it: a.s.d. Tacche e Svasi Climbing Club


Just a thought, is it likely that the final film was edited to increase the shadowing to make it look like a ledge?


I don't think it would be in their interest to do that. If you look at older pictures, there is a part that is darker and as Ergon already said before, it gives the impression of depth, but i's not real.

The climber visited the original cottage in Perugia and scaled the wall to reach the window.

He used the bars to lift his body weight up and the experiment fails to show how he could have entered through the window with big pieces of glass still firmly fixed in the frame, without injuring himself somehow. Without the bars it would be extremely difficult to heave your body high enough to reach the latch and open the window. So this experiment raises more questions than it answers.

No matter if possible or not, this window was a bad choice to stage the break-in, because it was the least accessible point of entry and the most exposed one to the view of curious neighbours and passing cars.

There is also no explanation as to why no glass was found under Filomena's window after such an entry. The only logical explanation is that the window was smashed from the inside with the shutters closed.

I would also expect Meredith Kercher to have been alarmed by the noise the smashing of the window and the falling rock onto the floor would have caused. The struggle most likely would have started in Filomena's bedroom then, not in hers.

This whole scenario is absurd.

favorite.
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
I personally see no need for a re-test. If is is not found there we will hear the roar of NO DNA of Meredith on the knife. I wish it was left out anyway... plenty there without it.


Nor I. I'm hoping that it was the specific request from the Kercher family for it to be retested that swung the mind of the Judge into ordering it, rather then the case depending on it, in his mind.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Just to add, it's been six years since that knife was used, that's a long time for whatever little may have been on it to degrade, plus it's already been swabbed and TMB'd to death. Moreover, I really don't trust what V & C may have done to it. I am most mindful that they have done their level best to subvert this process. V & C may come to bite us in the arse yet.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Summary of today's court proceedings in La Nazione:

Process Meredith, yes to new test on the knife
Rejected other defense requests

By Roberto Davide Papini

...
REQUESTS OF DEFENCE - Defence had requested new expert reports on traces of DNA on the knife found at Sollecito's house, on sperm traces on the pillow and the famous square of cloth with bra clasp of the victim found in the murder room. And then new witnesses acquisitions, expert reports required on mobile phones of the victim ("would show the exact time of the crime," says the lawyer Giulia Bongiorno, Sollecito's defense), traces of sperm that were not examined, the accused on the computer, only to name a few.

LAWYER BONGIORNO (Click here to listen to the interview) - Bongiorno has placed great emphasis on the "contamination" of the room where the crime took place: "The room did not remain sealed" before getting the latest findings, requesting access technical means to prove contamination.

THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR - By contrast, almost across the board, the prosecutor Alessandro Crini, who judged the demands of defenses "without the exceptional character in the Code and the stakes placed by the Supreme Court." According to Crini it comes to expert opinions on which the opinions may differ on the outcome, but that should not be repeated because it's unnecessary or because they go on roads "already plowed" in the previous debates. On the issue of "contamination", Crini argues that the defenses argue in an abstract and generic [way]. The PM Crini, however, is associated with the demand for new tests on the DNA extracted from the knife found at Sollecito's house (and that, in the indictment, it would be the murder weapon) and asks for a new hearing of the witness Luciano Aviello, who regretted that he first accused his brother of murder and then recanted. The court decided to hear him again.

LAWYER FROM THE WIDOW [this is funny: Carlo Dalla Vedova] - At the opening, the lawyer Dalla Vedova (Amanda Knox's defense) had put forward a plea of ​​constitutionality for a process "that is likely to be delayed indefinitely" between appeal and the Supreme Court, arguing that in the case of trials for murder (where there is no limitation period, it being provided by life imprisonment) are less than the rights of the accused not to be judged forever.

Crini has contended that it is an abstract hypothesis and that the procedural system is structured so as to avoid, in fact, a judgment infinity.

THE CIVIL PARTY - Even the lawyers for the plaintiff were opposed to the demands of the defenses of new surveys, less than for the DNA on the knife. The lawyer Francesco Maresca (Kercher family lawyer) reiterated before the hearing, his conviction "of the guilt of Amanda and Raffaele."

THE FATHER OF SOLLECITO - Before the hearing, Sollecito's father, Francesco, has expressed the belief in a positive outcome of the trial for his son," We are calm, Raffaele perhaps a little less than me because he is involved in the first person, but we are calm and confident that in this process his innocence will emerge. The Supreme Court only wanted to ask for further investigation, not having all the elements in hand. So I'm sure that these insights will show the strangeness of Raffaele [to the crime]", added the father of Sollecito.

The appeal trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher, takes place for the first time in the absence of the two defendants, Amanda Knox (who did know did not want to come to Italy and will remain in the United States) and Raffaele Sollecito (his father said he will be in the courtroom later this month), convicted at first instance to 26 and 25 years and then acquitted on appeal by judgment annulled by the Supreme Court.

In the courtroom, however, Patrick Lumumba, as a civil party, because he was unjustly accused by Knox (sentenced to three years for that crime [of calunnia]): "Amanda has fled - said Lumumba - the judgment of the court of appeals has allowed her to escape her punishment, [she] had to be punished."

He was "satisfied" with the outcome of the first hearing of the appeal in Florence, Raffaele Sollecito, accused of the murder of Meredith Kercher, along with Amanda Knox. He told one of his lawyers, the lawyer Giulia Bongiorno, who contacted him at the end of the proceedings. In particular Sollecito was pleased with the new appraisal placed on the knife believed to be the murder weapon.


LA NAZIONE
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Tears of the FOAKers:

Nigel Scott ‏@gronff 5m
#AmandaKnox #RaffaeleSollecito #Meredith New trial going pretty much how I predicted back in July. Depressing. http://bit.ly/13AOCzS

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Posts: 615

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Jester wrote:
Michael wrote:
Latest. Blow for Knox and Sollecito:

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 16s
Court rules Lumumba may stay and be a part of #amandaknox appeal trial.


Did Sollectio/Knox expect that? Knox screwed up again. That was one debt that she should have paid. Patrick adds credibity to the prosecution case if only because he is a witness to how she was leading up to the murder, after the murder and today. It shows a pattern of behavior.
Clearly she has done little to put things right.



I agree, it was a major mistake of Knox not to pay Patrick his compensation. Now she has to deal with him as an enemy in her appeal and he makes her look very bad. I can only imagine, that the reasons she didn't pay him, was because she and her handlers felt it would serve as some sort of admission of guilt. But really, they made a bad mistake!!!

It's also another way for the Knoxii to give the finger... pp-(
Top Profile 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Lawyers' reactions:

Bongiorno speaks to reporters outside the Palace of Justice:

QUOTIDIANO

Ghirga Interview:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndPMUQgOtzI
Top Profile 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Her not paying Patrick shows that she does not care about what she did to him and does not respect the courts.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline McCall


Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 3:38 pm

Posts: 291

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
The only thing that makes me nervous about the order to retest the knife, is that it suggests that a conviction is dependent upon it, or more to the point, what is or isn't found on it.


I don't see it suggesting that at all. The conviction is not in doubt. The testing of the knife is a required procedure to fix Hellmann's mistake of not testing it. The outcome will have no significance. It just needs to be tested because that is what needs to happen.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks, Guermantes. And I just want to thank everyone who has been keeping us going with updates throughout the day, you've all been stellar!!! Also, great work by those of you keeping the public updated on Twitter and elsewhere! :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline McCall


Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 3:38 pm

Posts: 291

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Just to add, it's been six years since that knife was used, that's a long time for whatever little may have been on it to degrade, plus it's already been swabbed and TMB'd to death. Moreover, I really don't trust what V & C may have done to it. I am most mindful that they have done their level best to subvert this process. V & C may come to bite us in the arse yet.


I considered that but C&V would never have had the knife to themselves. I'm fairly sure they were supervised at all times.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Michael wrote:
The only thing that makes me nervous about the order to retest the knife, is that it suggests that a conviction is dependent upon it, or more to the point, what is or isn't found on it.


I don't see it suggesting that at all. The conviction is not in doubt. The testing of the knife is a required procedure to fix Hellmann's mistake of not testing it. The outcome will have no significance. It just needs to be tested because that is what needs to happen.


I really hope, that's all it is. Despite that though, I can't help constantly thinking that V & C have had their corrupt grubby little mitts all over that knife.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Michael wrote:
The only thing that makes me nervous about the order to retest the knife, is that it suggests that a conviction is dependent upon it, or more to the point, what is or isn't found on it.


I don't see it suggesting that at all. The conviction is not in doubt. The testing of the knife is a required procedure to fix Hellmann's mistake of not testing it. The outcome will have no significance. It just needs to be tested because that is what needs to happen.



Yes, and considering the Supreme Court's directives in its ruling, Stefanoni's original testing remains valid, it cannot be voided by false claims, this is what the Supreme Court has in fact ascertained and stipulated..

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Michael wrote:
Just to add, it's been six years since that knife was used, that's a long time for whatever little may have been on it to degrade, plus it's already been swabbed and TMB'd to death. Moreover, I really don't trust what V & C may have done to it. I am most mindful that they have done their level best to subvert this process. V & C may come to bite us in the arse yet.


I considered that but C&V would never have had the knife to themselves. I'm fairly sure they were supervised at all times.


We can only hope. And I do, I always hope.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Court in Amanda Knox trial allows new DNA test
8:39 AM Tuesday Oct 1, 2013
AP, by Patricia Thomas, Florence, Italy.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/ar ... d=11132478

"The court also accepted into evidence defense photos showing Sollecito's fingernails bitten down at the time of his arrest, which the defense argues is proof he didn't participate in what prosecutors allege was a drug-fueled sex game that turned murderous.

Kercher family lawyer Francesco Maresca ridiculed the notion that the bitten-down nails were evidence that Sollecito could not have undone a bra clasp that had a trace of his DNA. "I hold it with the fingertips without using my nails," he said."
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I don't think the groupies will think it was just procedure... if nothing of Meredith is found on the knife. If they go trying to fix all the things Hellmann got wrong this could take forever.
I just don't think any further testing is necessary for guilt... or procedure.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline McCall


Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 3:38 pm

Posts: 291

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Does anyone remember the name of Sollecito's resort?

Someone from Santo Domingo which is a city in the Dominican Republic came by and spent 20:41 minutes reading Myths Debunked and 8:39 minutes reading Details Amanda Knox Shouldn't Have Known.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
McCall wrote:
Michael wrote:
The only thing that makes me nervous about the order to retest the knife, is that it suggests that a conviction is dependent upon it, or more to the point, what is or isn't found on it.


I don't see it suggesting that at all. The conviction is not in doubt. The testing of the knife is a required procedure to fix Hellmann's mistake of not testing it. The outcome will have no significance. It just needs to be tested because that is what needs to happen.



Yes, and considering the Supreme Court's directives in its ruling, Stefanoni's original testing remains valid, it cannot be voided by false claims, this is what the supreme Court has in fact ascertained and stipulated..



Yes, but this is part of the problem I'm having. As far as I see it, her test was sufficient. Retesting suggests that it isn't because if it was, why the need for the retest? Is the retest happening because it's "needed" in evidence terms, or is it just a formality in order to tick a technical box, as McCall suggests? I'm not sure and that's what's bothering me.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Items: 1 Bra
Contents; 100% cotton
Instructions for use: Cold wash by hand, only for use by those with fingernails

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline McCall


Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 3:38 pm

Posts: 291

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
I don't think the groupies will think it was just procedure... if nothing of Meredith is found on the knife. If they go trying to fix all the things Hellmann got wrong this could take forever.
I just don't think any further testing is necessary for guilt... or procedure.


I'm sure the Groupies will think a lot of things but no one cares what they think. My guess is they are debating all kinds of things of strange things and I hope they come by and share some of their zany ideas tomorrow.

Both Aviello and the decision to not test were specifically mentioned by Cassation as errors. This court has to correct those errors. There is no other option. It is just a delay in the inevitable.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox retrial begins – without the stars of the show

Knox, Sollecito and the Kercher family are nowhere to be seen as the case reopens in Florence

BY Andrea Vogt LAST UPDATED AT 16:28 ON Mon 30 Sep 2013


THE WEEK

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Fine. If someone elses dna pops up... what then? No AK, no Meredith, but a big hit on someone else. Would that not be a problem for the court?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
dgfred wrote:
I don't think the groupies will think it was just procedure... if nothing of Meredith is found on the knife. If they go trying to fix all the things Hellmann got wrong this could take forever.
I just don't think any further testing is necessary for guilt... or procedure.


I'm sure the Groupies will think a lot of things but no one cares what they think. My guess is they are debating all kinds of things of strange things and I hope they come by and share some of their zany ideas tomorrow.

Both Aviello and the decision to not test were specifically mentioned by Cassation as errors. This court has to correct those errors. There is no other option. It is just a delay in the inevitable.




No, FOAKer Tuesday is suspended during trial hearing weeks!!! We have far more important things to focus on during those times then be diddled around by FOAKers on the board.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Well then. I feel better about Tuesday already. A giant headache was forseen.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Both Aviello and the decision to not test were specifically mentioned by Cassation as errors.


Different things. Aviallo should have been heard again according to law and is not required in the process against Knox and Sollecito, but wholly on its own legal grounds, so there's no avoiding that having to be done in this round. The retesting of the knife is not demanded by law but is at the judge's discretion and very much effects the case against Knox and Sollecito.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline McCall


Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 3:38 pm

Posts: 291

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
Fine. If someone elses dna pops up... what then? No AK, no Meredith, but a big hit on someone else. Would that not be a problem for the court?


I don't see that as a major issue. There was blood from an unknown person in Sollecito's kitchen. It was just decided that it was irrelevant to the investigation. Finding a unknown's DNA on the knife would be the same. For the Groupies it would be significant since if you wanted to misunderstand transfer finding a unknown's DNA could be used for an argument for contamination. I don't believe it will happen but say the knife was thrown out? That is not an argument for not guilty just the removal of one item from the case for guilt. There is amble evidence to convict without the knife.


Last edited by McCall on Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
Well then. I feel better about Tuesday already. A giant headache was forseen.



Yeah, don't worry, FOAKer Tuesday is only permitted during weeks when there's nothing much going on and even then, only at our discretion (that's due to whether we have the staff available to cover it at the time, whether we can be arsed, etc,). It's a FOAKer privilege, not a right.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
zorba wrote:
McCall wrote:
Michael wrote:
The only thing that makes me nervous about the order to retest the knife, is that it suggests that a conviction is dependent upon it, or more to the point, what is or isn't found on it.


I don't see it suggesting that at all. The conviction is not in doubt. The testing of the knife is a required procedure to fix Hellmann's mistake of not testing it. The outcome will have no significance. It just needs to be tested because that is what needs to happen.



Yes, and considering the Supreme Court's directives in its ruling, Stefanoni's original testing remains valid, it cannot be voided by false claims, this is what the supreme Court has in fact ascertained and stipulated..



Yes, but this is part of the problem I'm having. As far as I see it, her test was sufficient. Retesting suggests that it isn't because if it was, why the need for the retest? Is the retest happening because it's "needed" in evidence terms, or is it just a formality in order to tick a technical box, as McCall suggests? I'm not sure and that's what's bothering me.



I think it is intended to add, but it will no subtract, not deklete/void Stefanoni's findings, there was never any REAL question of contamination and all of the protocols adherent to the methods, she did observe, and those not trying to just discredit it, I think, were all easily able to see the expert she is, and the facts like her getting to be who she is in that scientific world by her high standards and top skills and knowledge being that the police in Rome would not ever be taking just any old one to be one of their top scientific forensic specialists, so it's obvious she uis used to carrying out tests and carrying them out properly.

There was no way that the Test Readouts showing that Meredith's DNA was on the knife, could be interpreted as belonnging to any one other than Meredith, there's no way any amplification could have made the Readout's resemble the fixed markers in Meredith's DNA if it had not in fact BEEN her DNA, if a machine could make someionés DNA markers appear, out of all of the billions of people in this world, if they were not in fact there imn the first place, well I think it would mean Jesus has returned and was doing miracles.

Of all the places in the world or let's say in Perugia, for Sollecito's DNA to turn up, like not on a tea cup, a door handle, etc., it showed up on Meredith's bra; I wonder what the chances of that happening are, out of a billion, if he had not in fact touched that bra.

Can someone do equations? Sums n all.
Lke if you take one apple and two oranges at 12 o clock and walk to the park but get a train back, and eat one apple, how many bananas will you need to get home at 9.30am GMT?

No, Sollecito's DNA is on the bera and Meredit'hs DNA is on the knife, the knife found in his home that mEredith had never been to.


Sollecito: Oh, yes, I know she had never been to my home but one day I was cooking and I pricked her hand, she said it was not a problem.


Me: Yeah sure man, but his idea of a prick is different to mine, for instance, he IS a prick and Meredith is dead, I think that IS a problem, one that he is responsible for.

Not a problem, yeah, sure.
She's dead.

The other disturbing thing yet again seen repeatedly today is Knox replying, was it on the Sawyer thing?
When asked had she murdered Meredith, the way she denies it, her face, is so awful, I mean the way she says it, though she is saying NO, it looks like she is answering YES.
The way she replies is not pleasant, it's more like aggressive, but sometimes you can just tell when a person is really lying and this clip is one of those times.

Yesh I reckon she really practiced that one, but it is more than unconvincing.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Jester


User avatar


Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Does anyone remember the name of Sollecito's resort?

Someone from Santo Domingo which is a city in the Dominican Republic came by and spent 20:41 minutes reading Myths Debunked and 8:39 minutes reading Details Amanda Knox Shouldn't Have Known.


Bayahibe, Dominican Republic

http://www.discoverbayahibe.com/
Top Profile 

Offline questionx


Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:18 pm

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I was disheartened when they announced they would look more deeply at the knife, disheartened again when the PGP lauded the decision and expect to be disheartened when no traces are found.

You think that ruling a win for the prosecution??

Think again - it's precisely the exit the defense needs.

As dgfred said:

"I personally see no need for a re-test. If is is not found there we will hear the roar of NO DNA of Meredith on the knife. I wish it was left out anyway... plenty there without it...."
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

questionx wrote:
I was disheartened when they announced they would look more deeply at the knife, disheartened again when the PGP lauded the decision and expect to be disheartened when no traces are found.

You think that ruling a win for the prosecution??

Think again - it's precisely the exit the defense needs.

As dgfred said:

"I personally see no need for a re-test. If is is not found there we will hear the roar of NO DNA of Meredith on the knife. I wish it was left out anyway... plenty there without it...."


Think you are wrong, how can it be said no DNA Meredith, when it has already been found, it has not been dismissed, anything Hellmann did, WAS.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Stan


User avatar


Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:35 am

Posts: 130

Highscores: 5

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Well..maybe the defence want to find MK's DNA on the knife, and the photo of Raff's finger nails might just prove he had to cut or rip off the bra clasp, and then they can hold their hands up and say..'ah well, we did our best'....then get the hell out of there to find some paying customers. Must bug them to think Raff is spending his defence money living it up in the Dominican Republic while they are left to spin stories in the court room with a large hole in space where their client should be sitting. It would sure bug the hell out of me.

Apart from that, I do get the feeling that this judge is really 'no nonsense'. If its established as fact in the first trial, then any other debate is just more opinions and he appears to dismiss any of that muddying of the waters straight away. On the re-test of the knife, I would hope its just a box to be ticked so when the case goes back again to the SC there is nothing left undone or omitted.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
zorba wrote:
McCall wrote:
Michael wrote:
The only thing that makes me nervous about the order to retest the knife, is that it suggests that a conviction is dependent upon it, or more to the point, what is or isn't found on it.


I don't see it suggesting that at all. The conviction is not in doubt. The testing of the knife is a required procedure to fix Hellmann's mistake of not testing it. The outcome will have no significance. It just needs to be tested because that is what needs to happen.



Yes, and considering the Supreme Court's directives in its ruling, Stefanoni's original testing remains valid, it cannot be voided by false claims, this is what the supreme Court has in fact ascertained and stipulated..



Yes, but this is part of the problem I'm having. As far as I see it, her test was sufficient. Retesting suggests that it isn't because if it was, why the need for the retest? Is the retest happening because it's "needed" in evidence terms, or is it just a formality in order to tick a technical box, as McCall suggests? I'm not sure and that's what's bothering me.



I think it is intended to add, but it will no subtract, not deklete/void Stefanoni's findings, there was never any REAL question of contamination and all of the protocols adherent to the methods, she did observe, and those not trying to just discredit it, I think, were all easily able to see the expert she is, and the facts like her getting to be who she is in that scientific world by her high standards and top skills and knowledge being that the police in Rome would not ever be taking just any old one to be one of their top scientific forensic specialists, so it's obvious she uis used to carrying out tests and carrying them out properly.

There was no way that the Test Readouts showing that Meredith's DNA was on the knife, could be interpreted as belonnging to any one other than Meredith, there's no way any amplification could have made the Readout's resemble the fixed markers in Meredith's DNA if it had not in fact BEEN her DNA, if a machine could make someionés DNA markers appear, out of all of the billions of people in this world, if they were not in fact there imn the first place, well I think it would mean Jesus has returned and was doing miracles...



I really hope so, Zorba. Just speaking some of my fears out loud, is all. Often, I keep them to myself.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Fingernail biters put their nails in their mouths. Bite, transfer saliva. Maybe. Take these same fingers and touch the couch, or lamp or refrigerator and transfer DNA. Or whatever. So, by this reasoning, the DNA of a nail biter would be randomly found everywhere in the nail biter's universe. Or whatever. Is this it?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stan wrote:
Well..maybe the defence want to find MK's DNA on the knife, and the photo of Raff's finger nails might just prove he had to cut or rip off the bra clasp, and then they can hold their hands up and say..'ah well, we did our best'....then get the hell out of there to find some paying customers. Must bug them to think Raff is spending his defence money living it up in the Dominican Republic while they are left to spin stories in the court room with a large hole in space where their client should be sitting. It would sure bug the hell out of me.

Apart from that, I do get the feeling that this judge is really 'no nonsense'. If its established as fact in the first trial, then any other debate is just more opinions and he appears to dismiss any of that muddying of the waters straight away. On the re-test of the knife, I would hope its just a box to be ticked so when the case goes back again to the SC there is nothing left undone or omitted.



Yeah, the lawyers have to at least look like they're trying to earn their money.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline McCall


Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 3:38 pm

Posts: 291

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
McCall wrote:
Does anyone remember the name of Sollecito's resort?

Someone from Santo Domingo which is a city in the Dominican Republic came by and spent 20:41 minutes reading Myths Debunked and 8:39 minutes reading Details Amanda Knox Shouldn't Have Known.


Bayahibe, Dominican Republic

http://www.discoverbayahibe.com/


Wrong end of the country. Was hoping it was a guest at his resort.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amazing set of reporting by @kathleengadalof (Mason2) at TJMK

10 updates for the whole day and an interview with Giuliano Mignini, and talk with Patrick Lumumba. She also spoke to reporters during the day. Just read it, well worth while.

ETA: Correct Twitter addy for Kathleen Gadalof. Great reporting!
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Jester wrote:
McCall wrote:
Does anyone remember the name of Sollecito's resort?

Someone from Santo Domingo which is a city in the Dominican Republic came by and spent 20:41 minutes reading Myths Debunked and 8:39 minutes reading Details Amanda Knox Shouldn't Have Known.


Bayahibe, Dominican Republic

http://www.discoverbayahibe.com/


Wrong end of the country. Was hoping it was a guest at his resort.


I think the nearest node is at Santo Domingo, so all queries from the Dominican Republic might still resolve to that city. Could have been Raffaele Sollecito for all we know :)
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

K Gadalof states:
Quote:
The testing of the new DNA found on the knive during the 1st Appeal will be tested and the Court will hear from Aviello on Friday.
So, Stefanoni's findings cannot be disputed, (I would have thought since it was non-replicable) it is only the new trace Low DNA "I" found by Conti and Vecchiotti that was never tested by them, which the Supreme Court said should have been tested. Bongiornos's request to tear open the whole knife and retest it was rejected.

v. understandable how people might get nervous at this stage, but so far, this court seems to be on course for a finding of guilty.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

CBS's Doug Longhini has been working tirelessly for the Knox PR since the beginning of this murder case. Quite predictably, he's in full gear misinforming his readers and putting his own spin on the importance of trace 36-I, re-introducing the 'mysterious' Luca Cheli (who we know has been recruited by the FOA) as an ultimate "expert" on the knife DNA trace. Laughable! Luca Cheli has no expertise in forensics or Italian law whatsoever and is an amateur publishing on blogs and online forums.

Doug Longhini wrote:
In 2010, the appellate court threw out DNA trace evidence 36-B, concluding the police laboratory testing and results were unreliable. So Meredith Kercher's DNA could no longer be claimed to be on the knife blade.

But now, the Italian Supreme Court thinks trace 36-I should be front and center in the new trial that started today. And that could make things very interesting. Italian writer Luca Cheli made an important point about trace number 36-I in Wrongful Conviction News in August. Cheli reminded his readers that the Supreme Court's decision in March declared that the result of any new test on 36-I would not only be significant, it would be "decisive". The be all and end all so to speak. Game, set, match.

So, following the path of the Supreme Court's "decisive" dictate, if trace 36-I contains Meredith Kercher's DNA, the new trial is all but over, the two defendants are once again found guilty. But conversely, if trace 36-I has no Meredith Kercher DNA, Knox and Sollecito have, what should be a hands-down argument courtesy of the Italian Supreme Court, "if 36-I doesn't fit, you must acquit".

Of course, there are other potential outcomes. Any new test of trace 36-I could fail to find anything or be inconclusive. And to stand on solid scientific ground, any test would need to be repeated, in order to verify a first test. And that isn't going to happen, given trace 36-I is just 120 picograms; one pictogram is a trillionth of a gram. So there isn't much to work with and the Italian Scientific Police have a questionable track record, already, on the Kercher case.


CBS NEWS CRIMESIDER
Top Profile 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stan wrote:
Well..maybe the defence want to find MK's DNA on the knife, and the photo of Raff's finger nails might just prove he had to cut or rip off the bra clasp, and then they can hold their hands up and say..'ah well, we did our best'....then get the hell out of there to find some paying customers. Must bug them to think Raff is spending his defence money living it up in the Dominican Republic while they are left to spin stories in the court room with a large hole in space where their client should be sitting. It would sure bug the hell out of me.

Apart from that, I do get the feeling that this judge is really 'no nonsense'. If its established as fact in the first trial, then any other debate is just more opinions and he appears to dismiss any of that muddying of the waters straight away. On the re-test of the knife, I would hope its just a box to be ticked so when the case goes back again to the SC there is nothing left undone or omitted.


Well said, Stan. This judge is losing no speed ticking off the boxes the SC say should have been done by Hellmann. The new trace on the knife, Aviello. He has rejected all the defense requests, and could arguably be said to acceding to Maresca on the knife.

So what else have the defense got up their sleeve? Nothing I can see so far. And we do not have an answer to whether Rudy Guede will be recalled, but, that was a prosecution request, I think.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4840

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Knox Trial Déjà Vu

Amanda Knox Murder Retrial Begins in Florence Courtroom
by Barbie Latza Nadeau

THE DAILY BEAST
Top Profile 

Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A big thanks to all for all of the updates today. it's simply amazing, the job all of you do!!
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt on today's proceedings Amanda Knox Appeal II / Meredith Kercher Murder

Quote:
UPDATE SEPT. 30, 2013
FLORENCE – An appeals court judge in Florence ruled Monday to allow new testing of the kitchen knife believed to be the murder weapon in the murder of Meredith Kercher. On Friday, the Carabinieri (RIS) of Rome will be sworn in to carry out the forensic testing of low copy number DNA on the knife, known as “Trace 36-I”. It is a development welcomed by all sides of the case. The testing must be carried out in 60 days.

The court also agreed to hear testimony from mafia turncoat Luciano Aviello at Friday’s hearing. For more on him and why he matters, scroll down to the September 18 update. And lastly, the judge agreed to allow photos of Sollecito’s hands to be submitted to the court. Sollecito’s lawyers had argued that since he bites his nails very short it would have been difficult to manage the bra clasp where his DNA was found. All the other arguments, including constitutional questions about the duration of the trial, were rejected by the presiding judge.

For more details on what unfolded in court, have a look at my piece in The Week-Knox retrial begins, written from court in Florence and posted Monday afternoon.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Andrea Vogt on today's proceedings Amanda Knox Appeal II / Meredith Kercher Murder

Quote:
UPDATE SEPT. 30, 2013
FLORENCE – An appeals court judge in Florence ruled Monday to allow new testing of the kitchen knife believed to be the murder weapon in the murder of Meredith Kercher. On Friday, the Carabinieri (RIS) of Rome will be sworn in to carry out the forensic testing of low copy number DNA on the knife, known as “Trace 36-I”. It is a development welcomed by all sides of the case. The testing must be carried out in 60 days.

The court also agreed to hear testimony from mafia turncoat Luciano Aviello at Friday’s hearing. For more on him and why he matters, scroll down to the September 18 update. And lastly, the judge agreed to allow photos of Sollecito’s hands to be submitted to the court. Sollecito’s lawyers had argued that since he bites his nails very short it would have been difficult to manage the bra clasp where his DNA was found. All the other arguments, including constitutional questions about the duration of the trial, were rejected by the presiding judge.

For more details on what unfolded in court, have a look at my piece in The Week-Knox retrial begins, written from court in Florence and posted Monday afternoon.


Blech. "Stars of the show"? I could have done without that particular headline. I wish that the authors of these articles would stop using phrases like 'handlers' and 'image' and 'stars of the show.' It sounds like I'm going to have to start a 'Napia Warning 'for some of this.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
I personally see no need for a re-test. If is is not found there we will hear the roar of NO DNA of Meredith on the knife. I wish it was left out anyway... plenty there without it.


I think the test is only done to confirm the original result. Should the remaining sample yield no result, it won't affect the result of the first test or its interpretation.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

Posts: 1564

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
dgfred wrote:
Fine. If someone elses dna pops up... what then? No AK, no Meredith, but a big hit on someone else. Would that not be a problem for the court?

I don't see that as a major issue. There was blood from an unknown person in Sollecito's kitchen. It was just decided that it was irrelevant to the investigation. Finding a unknown's DNA on the knife would be the same. For the Groupies it would be significant since if you wanted to misunderstand transfer finding a unknown's DNA could be used for an argument for contamination. I don't believe it will happen but say the knife was thrown out? That is not an argument for not guilty just the removal of one item from the case for guilt. There is amble evidence to convict without the knife.

I don't think it is realistic that there is DNA from somebody else on the knife close to where Meredith's DNA was found. Unless of course it is C or V's DNA. Not sure if I would laugh or cry in that case :?
Top Profile 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
dgfred wrote:
I personally see no need for a re-test. If is is not found there we will hear the roar of NO DNA of Meredith on the knife. I wish it was left out anyway... plenty there without it.


I think the test is only done to confirm the original result. Should the remaining sample yield no result, it won't affect the result of the first test or its interpretation.


Only trace 36-I will be tested. There is no 'original result' since it was only identified, not tested. Stefanoni's results stand and what else shows up, is the mystery that makes it interesting.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Nell wrote:
dgfred wrote:
I personally see no need for a re-test. If is is not found there we will hear the roar of NO DNA of Meredith on the knife. I wish it was left out anyway... plenty there without it.


I think the test is only done to confirm the original result. Should the remaining sample yield no result, it won't affect the result of the first test or its interpretation.


Only trace 36-I will be tested. There is no 'original result' since it was only identified, not tested. Stefanoni's results stand and what else shows up, is the mystery that makes it interesting.


Yes Ergon, I know we are not talking about the same sample. I was referring to the knife in general. When I wrote 'original result' I meant the fact that Meredith's DNA was already found on the blade. I could have exprepssed myself better.

The way I see it, if the test of the identified sample should yield Meredith's DNA, then the case is closed. Should the sample not yield any result, that does not mean the first identified trace of Meredith on the blade will have automatically less weight.

I believe there is enough evidence to convict them without the knife and even without the bra clasp. The lies about their whereabouts that night suggest involvement and throwing off the investigation with the false accusation of an innocent man are proof they were trying to cover their tracks.

The staged break-in, the rearranging of the body and taking off her bra point directly to Amanda Knox. Further Knox left her blood / DNA mixed with Meredith's in many places.

You don't need certainty to convict, you need to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt and I am running out of excuses to think of why Knox would be framed by an Italian prosecutor.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Emerald


User avatar


Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:53 am

Posts: 1706

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Janine Driver is a popular guest on the legal infotainment circuit. Her expertise is body language, spotting liars. Her book is 'You Can't Lie To Me'

http://www.amazon.com/Janine-Driver/e/B003GIV4E4
http://www.lyintamer.com/

Janine Driver was on 'Dr Drew' talking about AK's previous interrviews. When AK was asked if she participated in the murder of MK, AK says "No". TRUTH. When asked if she was present when the crime was committed, AK again says "NO". LIE

Very interesting. It's always been my contention AK did not directly participate in the murder, but was present when it happened. Every confession AK spoke or wrote was the same core details. Even when she tried to backtrack and extricate herself from the scenario.
Top Profile 

Offline questionx


Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:18 pm

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks for clarification on the knife, Ergon.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Andrea Vogt on today's proceedings Amanda Knox Appeal II / Meredith Kercher Murder

Quote:
UPDATE SEPT. 30, 2013
FLORENCE – An appeals court judge in Florence ruled Monday to allow new testing of the kitchen knife believed to be the murder weapon in the murder of Meredith Kercher. On Friday, the Carabinieri (RIS) of Rome will be sworn in to carry out the forensic testing of low copy number DNA on the knife, known as “Trace 36-I”. It is a development welcomed by all sides of the case. The testing must be carried out in 60 days.

The court also agreed to hear testimony from mafia turncoat Luciano Aviello at Friday’s hearing. For more on him and why he matters, scroll down to the September 18 update. And lastly, the judge agreed to allow photos of Sollecito’s hands to be submitted to the court. Sollecito’s lawyers had argued that since he bites his nails very short it would have been difficult to manage the bra clasp where his DNA was found. All the other arguments, including constitutional questions about the duration of the trial, were rejected by the presiding judge.

For more details on what unfolded in court, have a look at my piece in The Week-Knox retrial begins, written from court in Florence and posted Monday afternoon.


Blech. "Stars of the show"? I could have done without that particular headline. I wish that the authors of these articles would stop using phrases like 'handlers' and 'image' and 'stars of the show.' It sounds like I'm going to have to start a 'Napia Warning 'for some of this.



Right,
and hi Napsk,
on this chilly clear-skied October morning,
seeing your post,
I have to you join because I was going to start slagging Andrea off for that (but was too tired yesterday),

It was tasteless, and then to almost have Meredith's family mixed up with that particular headline would have been even worse.

So I followed the link to her.
Even though it was not the case that she included Meredith's family as being part of the stars thing,
nonetheless, by writing or allowing someone else to write in a sub-headliner that: They Were Nowhere To Be Seen, that greatly confused the initial headline with the sub-header, making it seem like she was saying the stars were, the two who found guilty of murder and Meredith's family, which is a terrible thing to say or do.

She wrote or allowed her name to be muddled up with those headlines ...
(by those responsible for the titles which I imagine must be called, in those Newspaper Departments, The Catchy Titles Department, otherwise she wrote them herself which I cannot quite imagine but if it were me, I just could not work somewhere where I write pieces and then someone else comes aklong and places the titles,
no way could I allow that),


Christ, shoot me now.

To write ''The Stars of the Show'' is a piece of sarcasm that I fear is lost on most people seeing as how the PR Firm has made them appear that way (like stars).
I doubt that most people got thathe sarcasm and where feelings are so easily hurt, why write so carelessly (Es cuze-em-wa, as they say in French, haha, there's me with all of my typos) as regards content?

Why not include a hint of sarscasm in the actual piece but clearly add some pointers as to why you are saying it like that.

Seeing as the average IQ has been steadilty going down and is not lower than someone in the 18th Century one cannot assume people will get what is in your head but sdoes'nt flow out of your fingertips, or tip if you area a 1-fingered typist, erhum.

Let's do a poll as to whether my statement is true, is the IQ status going up or down as compared to 100 or 200 years ago?
I think in a way, it's down, even though we have so many discoveries and inventions, think of Syria, looking a those burned up children yesterday on a BBC special, 2 of them in fact, I think what's the fucking use, such wicked, evil people who are behind such things, and I think here of the first world countries, developed nations that are in the weapon making industry, shame on akll of them, high and low and that means desperate bastards working as labourers too, I 'd rtather die first before doing that/taking part in any way in it.
To see a small boy, maybe 6 shiivering in shock, his skin burned off him, god almighty I'm in shock too and its so hurtful, what a world, and people like Knox and Sollecito, I think they are on the same shitheap of inhuman behaviour. So much pain and so many tears.
Fuck the lousy famil from Bari, screw the lousy family from Seattle and screw the useless incompetent so-called journalists that only think about their bank accounts, blind idiots, peasants could do better.

I'd vote to force Popham into having to report from Afghanistan and Syria, and I'd vote to have all of his comfortable off Italian residing, equally shite colleageus to have to stay in a refugee camp in Syria where they are being bombed, poisined with water contaminated by faeces, but to me what is really bad, is to see just how useless and everything that is bad about middle classiness those British journslists are, all of those in ITaly, alomng with the ones fro,m other nationaklities are having a fucking laugh, reporting, an infant can scribble something of more substance than what they've been coming up with in relation to this murder case. And because I am British, English, Welsh, then it makes me cringe to think that they have no sense of pride at all, they are a shame on Great Britain. (great never has meant fantastic it refers to the union of the different countries, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, etc.


Are we:
1) Undumbing
or
2) Dumbing-up?

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top Profile 

Offline Nell

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:38 pm

Posts: 5041

Images: 0

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I am surprised by Barbie Nadeau's latest article about the appeal.

Quote:
There will be a new review of the knife and Sollecito’s nail picture will be entered into evidence. The court also will hear from a convicted mobster Luciano Aviello, who told the original appellate court that his brother had killed Kercher and that the knife was buried in a garden in Perugia. In June 2011, he told the court in Perugia, “My brother came in and sat on the sofa. The right arm of his jacket was ripped and he could see blood on his arm. My brother then pulled out a pocket knife and a set of keys. He was very afraid. He didn’t want to create problems for me in Perugia. My brother was very emotional.” Aviello explained that his brother, who is conveniently on the lam, had taken a job to steal some art from a villa in Perugia, but the man who hired him jotted down the address incorrectly and they went instead to the house where Kercher and Knox were living. Having found Kercher home alone, they started to attack her sexually and then killed her. Aviello was a prison mate of Sollecito’s during the trial but maintains that his story is true.

Source


Luciano Aviello recanted his statement and revealed he had been offered money by Giulia Bongiorno for his testimony. She threatened to sue him for accusing her of bribing him.

See here: Witness Tampering By Defenses? and Giulia Bongiorno’s Next Super-Witness? The Apple Of Her Witness Luciano Aviello’s Eye
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Huh, is this all of the posts from today, Tuesday, where is everyone, wos appenin man?

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Nell wrote:
dgfred wrote:
I personally see no need for a re-test. If is is not found there we will hear the roar of NO DNA of Meredith on the knife. I wish it was left out anyway... plenty there without it.


I think the test is only done to confirm the original result. Should the remaining sample yield no result, it won't affect the result of the first test or its interpretation.


Only trace 36-I will be tested. There is no 'original result' since it was only identified, not tested. Stefanoni's results stand and what else shows up, is the mystery that makes it interesting.



I can do without interesting. I don't want anything to be interesting. Nope, I want it all to be plain boring. I am thinking here of the old Chinese curse masked as a blessing: May you live through interesting times...

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:19 pm   Post subject: INTERESTING NEWS   

Freak tornado, (winds up to 110 mph, winter storm, hits Seattle September 30 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/cap ... r-seattle/

Almost 20,000 without electricity. Ahem.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Interesting times for Seattle :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi Zorba. I think, for some of us, we are just undumbing to how dumbed up we've been.
Maybe, some of us are just becoming sensitive to how insensitive we've been. I don't know how to better put it.
I'm pretty sure that Ms. Vogt just saw an opportunity to slide in a sarcastic comment about the proceedings, and why not? She's basically spent her time in the trenches, as it were, and the onslaught of the media probably DOES represent a movie set,, cameras and all....however. I didn't like the headline. The movie star and celebrity references are really putting me on tilt, to steal a phrase. There are a couple things this time around that are really pushing my buttons, and the use of these celebrity phrases is just one of them.
I'm not going to grind away about it, it just gets on my last nerve.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

Posts: 1564

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Huh, is this all of the posts from today, Tuesday, where is everyone, wos appenin man?

Relaxing and reloading the battery for Friday :) I read Aviello is already up on Friday as well as the knife test. To have the knife test results by Friday seems a bit soon, or would that be the beginning of the testing? Anybody know?
Top Profile 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Next hearing date October 04, Michael, so I guess things might be boring till then :)

On the other hand, the groupies planning on attending the rent a hall "briefing" in the Congress Visitor's Chamber basement room 203 tomorrow October 02 might want to check ahead; Government is shutting down over the budget not being passed.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:47 pm   Post subject: Re: INTERESTING NEWS   

Ergon wrote:
Freak tornado, (winds up to 110 mph, winter storm, hits Seattle September 30 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/cap ... r-seattle/

Almost 20,000 without electricity. Ahem.


I guess the Mistral Blows.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, max. Carabinieri team to inspect the knife trace will be named Friday. They will have till end of November (other reports say 60 days) to submit a report, so that may move the trial calendar into December. Also keep in mind that Judge Nencini has reserved judgement on whether to order other testing.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I note with interest this morning that my 'trending list' from yahoo! has been consistently showing "Meredith Kercher".
This is a new development. Ordinarily I'd look at the list and see the Knox name. Not this time. I take this as a good sign.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Aviello?

Now you've heard of dog bites the hand that feeds

Dog bites the arse of the hand that feeds and the hand (Bongiorno) snaps back by threatening to bite the dog that bit the hand.. that tried to feed false evidence to the court

She was the one that called him to court to testify.
If she is sooooooooooooooooo clever, why is it she called a man who had not but an inkling of credibility to start with, to testify?
mmm, that smells really bad, I think one might call it an abcess, or an abcess that fell into the abyss of own stupidity.

To me it always deemed like she only got him in there to waste time and to exasperate the lay judges even more, as she HAD f- all else to give.

Juat saw a 3-person report from CNN whereof Nadeau is one of them, I'm not going to refer to her as Barbie any more.
I forgot she worked for CNN and I mean in my book CNN is very very really really crap, so I'm afraid I trust nothing anymore about her.
You've got a certain twitterer, dropping in on a Sollecito supporter called Noel, thanking this Noel for her support, CNN Team so who is this tgeam, I'm afraid working for CNN means you may be part of that Sollecito supporting team and I'm afraid for that reason you can never come to my party. Is Nadeu that desperate for liras that she has to work for that bunch of c... ?<< creeps, creeps I say, I never swear.

And I still like Barbie but I don't know wha she stabds for, in that article, yet again, they refeerd to Kercher's.

Now if they are referring to Merdith's family, why can't they find the journalistic skills with which to formulate: the Kercher family.

This is not the army and Meredith's family are not part of any army.

1) Kercher's family.

2) The Kercher family

Which option sounds friendlier?
Which option sounds unnecessarily impersonal?
Are those reporters all to don oversized trouser braces like Larry King, and look totally fucking stupisd, I'm a journalist, woo hoo, tKercher's family bla bla bla, because they love the sound of the own trumpets, I'm a reporter I have to be neutral, yeah but that has nothing to do with it, you are just being useless and unable to get anything right, like headline it yet again as a retrial and Nadeau is taking part in that article, a retrial? She speaks Italian and purports to have an inkling of understanding about Italian things, so why does she allow incorrect distribution of information under her name?



It is not a retrial it is the appeal, after the sentencing of Knox and Sollecito as guilty of murder.
Crap, useless, incorrect information, sending it out to the world.
aqnd this is only one bit iof the incorrect distribution of information



Kercher's when she is after al dead and never more to be warm, needs warmth when referring to her, why the impersonality, it's so cold yes, like a tombstone.
By saying the Kercher family, that includes Meredith and as it was not about Meredith, when referring to how the Kercher family would nor be present in court, then there is no need to refer to Meredith by calling her Kercher, are they stupid?
Are they cold?
Are they insensitive?

Yes all three I think

When a person has been murdered, care is needed, love is needed, kindness is needed, gentleness is needed, and people who can write who think before they speak, is needed. You're fired.

I'm going to set up a foundation called The Foundation of Would-be Journalists Who Like Fine Food & Wine and Have SFA to Say.


Jesus wept.. again

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Interesting times for Seattle :)


Like when Knox returned there, and the murder rate immediately went up?
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
zorba wrote:
Huh, is this all of the posts from today, Tuesday, where is everyone, wos appenin man?

Relaxing and reloading the battery for Friday :) I read Aviello is already up on Friday as well as the knife test. To have the knife test results by Friday seems a bit soon, or would that be the beginning of the testing? Anybody know?



And this matter has priority, I bet, shifting tests already booked to another date, this takes precedence because thy have no imntention of having it take a long time.

Yeah but once the date is booked for a test, then I mean how many years does a test take to do, surely it is done in less than a day!!!

The defence would have loved t have all of those things re-examined, Bongiorno might just have been able to come up with another half a dozen baby murderers to testify to the goodness of her client, as according to what some other convict said, yes, time wasting, that was what Bongiorno was up to, fancy calling a man like Alviello and now she is the one wantuing to sue him, what did she expect? Wow, if only she could have had the case drag on for a year, upsetting/tiring/boring the lay judges so that they would just be glad to get out of there.

That's what they did before, making it all confusing for the lay judges, so they were led astray by these goings on, it had no other purpose than deviation from the actual and main theme.
but sadly, for them, for Bongiorno, and the likes, the court is not getting screwed around again.

Phones too were supposed to be getting switched off in court so how someone's phone went off I do no know.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
I note with interest this morning that my 'trending list' from yahoo! has been consistently showing "Meredith Kercher".
This is a new development. Ordinarily I'd look at the list and see the Knox name. Not this time. I take this as a good sign.


It was done through every one's efforts here, Napia5. The search engines are now set to "Meredith Kercher" and if "Amanda Knox" comes up, it more often than not says something other than "star" (where's the puke smilie when I finally need one?)
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Hi Zorba. I think, for some of us, we are just undumbing to how dumbed up we've been.
Maybe, some of us are just becoming sensitive to how insensitive we've been. I don't know how to better put it.
I'm pretty sure that Ms. Vogt just saw an opportunity to slide in a sarcastic comment about the proceedings, and why not? She's basically spent her time in the trenches, as it were, and the onslaught of the media probably DOES represent a movie set,, cameras and all....however. I didn't like the headline. The movie star and celebrity references are really putting me on tilt, to steal a phrase. There are a couple things this time around that are really pushing my buttons, and the use of these celebrity phrases is just one of them.
I'm not going to grind away about it, it just gets on my last nerve.



Yeah me too, last nerve and all I mean.
Anyway, Vogt has, seemed to me (seemed yes), to be the best up until now. The headlines though are something the editors do, I think or the captioms department but I couldn't allow it, I'd withdraw my article.

I'm too sensitive but when I saw that Barbie Nadeau had been dining with a group of journos one of which was Pisa I instantly was unable to not trust things there, because that man is a shark. It seemed like he influenced her thinking, apparently he's been in Italy years but I do not like him one bit, I don't because of his terrible articles for the tabloids.

You can't trust people like him, he too can sign a contract and get paid for it, by the familiy's of the accused parties, a nice little earner, that's why the ethics the codes are supposed to be akin to those of surgeons and doctors.

And that is because of the power the media has to influence minds and opinions.

However, seems to me these are not adhered to like they used to be, by most.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
Top Profile 

Offline ttrroonniicc


Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:12 pm

Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

What's this about new DNA on the knife

('Mason2', court-room): "Then i saw my opportunity to speak to Dr Mignini the Prosecutor from the original trial in 2009. He was gracious enough to give me about 10 minutes of his time, and he was hoping for the testing of the new dna on the knife."

-- OK I saw -- another sample considered "too small"

if it's a match it's a match IMO ... more of a match than a fingerprint (or shoe print).
Top Profile 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
McCall wrote:
Michael wrote:
The only thing that makes me nervous about the order to retest the knife, is that it suggests that a conviction is dependent upon it, or more to the point, what is or isn't found on it.


I don't see it suggesting that at all. The conviction is not in doubt. The testing of the knife is a required procedure to fix Hellmann's mistake of not testing it. The outcome will have no significance. It just needs to be tested because that is what needs to happen.


I really hope, that's all it is. Despite that though, I can't help constantly thinking that V & C have had their corrupt grubby little mitts all over that knife.

I share your fears, Michael. C+V, as well as Ms Bongiorno, proved to have criminal energy in the past. I'm a little reassured though, now that it's clear the test only concerns the new DNA trace.
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Hi Zorba. I think, for some of us, we are just undumbing to how dumbed up we've been.
Maybe, some of us are just becoming sensitive to how insensitive we've been. I don't know how to better put it.
I'm pretty sure that Ms. Vogt just saw an opportunity to slide in a sarcastic comment about the proceedings, and why not? She's basically spent her time in the trenches, as it were, and the onslaught of the media probably DOES represent a movie set,, cameras and all....however. I didn't like the headline. The movie star and celebrity references are really putting me on tilt, to steal a phrase. There are a couple things this time around that are really pushing my buttons, and the use of these celebrity phrases is just one of them.
I'm not going to grind away about it, it just gets on my last nerve.



Yeah me too, last nerve and all I mean.
Anyway, Vogt has, seemed to me (seemed yes), to be the best up until now. The headlines though are something the editors do, I think or the captioms department but I couldn't allow it, I'd withdraw my article.

I'm too sensitive but when I saw that Barbie Nadeau had been dining with a group of journos one of which was Pisa I instantly was unable to not trust things there, because that man is a shark. It seemed like he influenced her thinking, apparently he's been in Italy years but I do not like him one bit, I don't because of his terrible articles for the tabloids.

You can't trust people like him, he too can sign a contract and get paid for it, by the familiy's of the accused parties, a nice little earner, that's why the ethics the codes are supposed to be akin to those of surgeons and doctors.

And that is because of the power the media has to influence minds and opinions.

However, seems to me these are not adhered to like they used to be, by most.


I can understand your feelings about the headline etc., but I think one shouldn't overinterpret either. "Stars of the show" at least puts it in context (of the media blitz), "star defendant" (Barbie's choice of word) not so much. Both Andrea and Barbie are trying to do their jobs, I guess, and who knows what's really behind a single expression or line in their articles. It would be hard to bear the Mandy/Raffie media phenomenon without the help of sarcasm...
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7151

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It isn't you, Nell, it's the reporting on the trial that is confusing. Too many reporters saying "the knife will be retested" just as they call it a "retrial".
Top Profile E-mail 

Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, Ava. I understand what you are saying about over-interpreting. I am doing my level best not to do this. In this, or any other circumstance. I just hate the referencing. In the past, I've probably been guilty of it myself. I don't like looking at this case from the standpoint of how the public is being manipulated, even though it''s pretty obvious that, in many cases, that's exactly what's happening. It's just the words that bother me. I am not accusing Ms.Vogt of manipulation. Not at all. During the last court hearings, the phrase 'kicked around for 46 days' caused me heart palpitations. It's not a reflection in any way of my opinion of Ms.Vogt or her reporting.

I'm still searching for all of the sound bytes that were going to be handed out after court. Weren't we supposed to be seeing this? Even though Knox is not present in the courtroom, we were supposed to expect to see her presence. When will this happen?
Top Profile E-mail 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 30 [ 7308 posts ]
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 30  Next


Who is online
Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 2 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

  

Judge Massei Sentencing Report     The Meredith Kercher Fund     The Murder Of Meredith Kercher Wiki     True Justice For Meredith Kercher     Judge Nencini Sentencing Report 


28,671,544 Views