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XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 - SEPT 29, 13

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
capealadin wrote:
daisysteiner wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Super post..Daisy. Exactly right.

Vegas will be TOO much fun. Now, if only Jackie didn't have Sharon @ the table...maybe the outcome would have been different...and Jackie would be treating us. AT THE WYNN. :)


Mate if there is a back packers hostel available, I could be convinced....I NEED A HOLIDAY! And can't have one until the expensive one next year. It will be aces when the wedding happens but I need the holiday part now!


I hear ya. For me..I need a vacation when I've vacationed in Vegas. There's no sleeping there, Hon.


I'm heading there next month. My brother lives there. But, I'm going for some much needed peace and quiet from my crew. Imagine going to Vegas for peace and quiet!


Fabulous !! It'll be busy..because of the WSOP. ( There are so many people who behave badly when going to Vegas...I find it interesting..I have to say :)

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Michael wrote:
From the above:

(IMAGE)

(IMAGE)

(IMAGE)




Not "swooning into her boyfriend's arms" then!


That's funny, Michael. Nope..not in boyfriend's arms..but maybe Knox was confused. She saw Boyfriend's orange pants...and so....

Madison with the * deer caught in headlights* stare...I don't know. The whole set up is very peculiar. wh-)


I think it may be a sister of AK under cover... instead of AK. Hair looks real dark to me. Not that I care one bit either way.


It's Knox, dg. Look at the bald spot on the top of her head. And, she's heavier than her sister. Of course, Knox now being so CAUTIOUS...she's unaware that pics have been taken of her. And, her pic isn't snapped coming out of the house. Nope. She's made her way along the fence..for aways..and then...aha..there's the * candid * snapshot..of poor persecuted Manders. wh-)

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:33 pm   Post subject: WAITING FOR CASSAZIONE PART IV   

(cont'd) Lunch till 2:45 PM, March 25, 2013. Speak to reporters and law students in the hall and crowded but elegant cafeteria down stairs. Law students have a mixed view on the matter. On the one hand, that Italy's legal system is antiquated and needs to move more toward common law practices. Others, equally passionate about the inquisitorial system and checks and balances within it. Aware of American media interference and attacks on the integrity of their system. The majority view, that I can see. One woman says oh, I think she's innocent (but leans toward the case not being proven) and another, a student from Africa, says flat out he thinks she's guilty. No one mentions Raffaele :)

The reporters consensus seem to be that the tough questioning by the court (of Riello) indicates that Knox and Sollecito will go free. The relatrice and he had quite a discussion about the proposed remedies, and I was struck by the sheer intellectual capacity of the arguments, and responses.

Return from lunch, and Frank Sfarzo is there towards the back, so I stand beside him, observing. His hair's longer now, so he's abandoned the short sides and trim he had on Vashon island, and wearing a rumpled blue pin stripe suit, no tie. He's on some IM account scrolling and texting away. Doesn't look too shabby, honestly, so I guess someone's still supporting him. Doesn't make eye contact. Then suddenly he lets out a big sneeze. Oh dear, has someone got a cold?

3:20 PM: Giulia Bongiorno is going strong, almost argumentative. She's a good speaker, with a flair for the dramatic. Judges listening intently, as she argues about the errors in Riello's statement, arguing on the law, the imputing of malfeasance by the appeals court. Going on about Rudy Guede as the sole perpetrator as determined by the Corte de Appello.

3:45 PM: This is when I see, and Giulia does too, the court slipping away from her. She's also arguing the evidence, going on about the computer hard drives, orating, almost operatic, now using the cartoon vixen defense of Knox.

4:00 PM: Maresca walks out as she continues. Sadly, she sounds almost desperate. The president sits there, bemused as she berates him, and geez, but she's being going on longer than Riello.

4:35 PM: Carlo Dalla Vedova. A snappy dresser always. Arguing "see you later"? Sheesh. Now every one on the defense team is arguing evidence, and running on scared.

4:50 PM: Happy Birthday, Luciano Ghirga. Going on about Masons, fer crying out loud. Paints Knox as naive, Little Miss Innocenti.

5:05 PM: Ghirga concludes, and the court adjourns right after. There will be an announcement @ 9:00 PM, March 25, 2013.

The reporters all chase out after the lawyers. They seem to get their cues from whoever they talked to. It went well, no, it didn't go well. Fascinating to see their demeanour reflected in the stories they write and give in later interviews. Frank Sfarzo sits with other Italian reporters in one corner of the hall, spinning what just happened, and what is going to happen. I feel he's still after Mignini, and as I found out in Perugia, watch out, Mignini's carrying a much bigger stick now :)

I make friends with the cops. Much more fun than the reporters, but seriously, I respect the journalist's craft. They're professionals, forced by their editors and news departments to write crap, fit a narrative. No mileage in the truth, sometimes, though of course for many, it's the truth as they see it.

I get a sandwich and eat it out in the hall. Everyone has to hand in their pass by 7:00 PM but we don't need new ones to come back in. I enjoy they're not as paranoid about security as we NorteAmericanos. Then I get called to the front security, grande problema; nessun problema :)

8:35 PM: Giulia Bongiorno takes a call. Something stressful. I think her source is telling her something from inside the court.

9:05 PM: Doors open.

9:07 PM: The judges will announce their decision tomorrow, March 26, @ 10:00 AM.

In all the foofaraw I miss a couple of important calls I could have taken to meet some people, but instead I head off home. As I walk across the Tiber on Ponte Umberto I, there's Frank Sfarzo at the lights, driving a newish SmartCar, and we look at each other, then he drives off, still texting away. I'm not going to chase after him to get his license plate, thanks, and somehow I doubt he could have imagined I'd be there.

Off to bed, and I dash off a couple of notes. What will tomorrow bring? I've had this feeling, but never wanted to engage with it. The day will bring what it brings.


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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

You're doing a super job, Ergon..of letting us not only know the ins and outs..but giving us a FEELING of what it was like.

Bongiorno, I think, knew from the get go how it would go down...but has to show Papa he's getting his money's worth. ( I wonder what they REALLY think about Hellman? The defense attorneys. I mean..he was a gift to them..nicely packaged...except..when the package was opened..it was just a useless tie..

With which he has tied them all in knots.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Tell the truth, Ergon. When you were standing next to Frank..did you check if you still had your wallet and phone? :shock:

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Wonderful job, Ergon. Thanks for taking a brief time-out from stalking Frank to pop in on the SC. Sheesh. ;)


Last edited by Napia5 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Great descriptions Ergon.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

JESTER!!! Damn..you're good.:) ( You picked up on Ergon's report on Bongiorno's animated vixen cartoon character......

Which I'm sure is in Bongiorno's arsenal...as she throws Knox under the bus to save Raf. :twisted:

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
JESTER!!! Damn..you're good.:) ( You picked up on Ergon's report on Bongiorno's animated vixen cartoon character......

Which I'm sure is in Bongiorno's arsenal...as she throws Knox under the bus to save Raf. :twisted:


Thanks. Some of us are better at expressing outselves with pictures than words. I think it would be to Raffaele's advantage to throw Knox under the bus and sever the appeals, but is that a possibility, or are they forever intertwined because of their decision (was that a choice) to be tried together during trial?
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I wondered the same thing. It seems as though they're in it together until the end. However..I haven't had anyone respond to my earlier question as to whether there can be 2 seperate verdicts. One for Knox..and one for Raf.

I believe I read somewhere that Raf mentioned in his book that his attorneys wanted him to throw Knox under the bus..but Raf...THE HERO..wouldn't go along with that.

He MAY be rethinking that now.

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
I wondered the same thing. It seems as though they're in it together until the end. However..I haven't had anyone respond to my earlier question as to whether there can be 2 seperate verdicts. One for Knox..and one for Raf.

I believe I read somewhere that Raf mentioned in his book that his attorneys wanted him to throw Knox under the bus..but Raf...THE HERO..wouldn't go along with that.

He MAY be rethinking that now.


If his lawyer advised him to take certain steps during his murder trial and he decided instead to follow his heart, then Raffaele is a fool.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jester wrote:
capealadin wrote:
I wondered the same thing. It seems as though they're in it together until the end. However..I haven't had anyone respond to my earlier question as to whether there can be 2 seperate verdicts. One for Knox..and one for Raf.

I believe I read somewhere that Raf mentioned in his book that his attorneys wanted him to throw Knox under the bus..but Raf...THE HERO..wouldn't go along with that.

He MAY be rethinking that now.


If his lawyer advised him to take certain steps during his murder trial and he decided instead to follow his heart, then Raffaele is a fool.


Raf a fool? Jackie will get annoyed with me...but that's an absolute certainty :)

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda and Raffaele are guilty or innocent?

http://news.panorama.it/cronaca/cassazione-processo-meredith-amanda-knox
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ann Coulter

Don't Knox this 'serious network'

Just days after the Turner Broadcasting System CEO claimed that CNN "is a serious news network," it aired a childish report on "Anderson Cooper 360" about convicted murderer Amanda Knox, which appears to have been written by Amanda's parents.


http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2013-04-03.html
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Ann Coulter

Dont' Knox this 'serious network'

Just days after the Turner Broadcasting System CEO claimed that CNN "is a serious news network," it aired a childish report on "Anderson Cooper 360" about convicted murderer Amanda Knox, which appears to have been written by Amanda's parents.


http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2013-04-03.html


Thanks, guermantes. What a powerful piece. Thank you, Ann Coulter.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox Case: Judge Probably Understands Probability
By Dr. Carrie Valentine, PhD

A recent New York Times article reports that Italy’s Court of Cassation has overturned the acquittal of Amanda Knox for the murder of Meredith Kercher.
Although Schneps and Comez [sic] acknowledge that the Court has not yet publicly explained the motivations behind the ruling, they suggest that the failure of the judge to understand probability is the reason for overturning the acquittal. They report that the judge refused to allow a re-test of the knife with more recent DNA analysis techniques in 2011, the year of acquittal. The reasoning of the acquitting judge was reported to be “If the scientific community recognizes that a test on so small a sample cannot establish identity beyond a reasonable doubt, he explained, then neither could a second test on an even smaller sample.”


THE TRUTH ABOUT FORENSIC SCIENCE (BLOG)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

scene 3, take 122, lights, cut, start again, can we get a little more light over there, turn your head so we can see your features, think of your cat that got run down by a steamroller, no, not laugh, like sad, can you tell your buddy to stop twanging that damned guitar, don't smile and no say cheese though it may be, and is, re mem bu, the phone goes and we the magazine just so happened be passing by for tea and scones, when we caught you hearing the news right, so like you the hounded fox, you nearly escaped and there the hunters are with their bright red jackets clashing with your first and second disciple's orange pantaloons, little black hat, the quick brown fox jumped over the tired old dog, how'd that rhyme go again, the swift brown fox fell over the mat, sat on the wall, I dunno, don't smile, click, click, perfect, you get the call, let's do that again, we have to make it look spontaneous, look despondent, call, news, overturned and so is your guts, no escape murder charge, crew of photographers pretend they aint here right, your mom, she happened to be filming you, call, the sly brown fox chased its own tail, the swift owl swallowed a cow, whole, the Mad Hatter served the tea and cursed the girl who'd changed sizes so many times, that's a rap where's chief of Italy Sfarts? Tell him we give money, tell his people our people won't kill his people, girl, dumb, pretty... ugly, not fun, American, an American Psycho on vacation, that's a rap, mom, mom, mom, can we go shopping?

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Offline smacker


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
I wondered the same thing. It seems as though they're in it together until the end. However..I haven't had anyone respond to my earlier question as to whether there can be 2 seperate verdicts. One for Knox..and one for Raf.

I believe I read somewhere that Raf mentioned in his book that his attorneys wanted him to throw Knox under the bus..but Raf...THE HERO..wouldn't go along with that.

He MAY be rethinking that now.


He may fling Knox under the bus but where does that get him? His DNA is on the bra clasp and places him at the crime scene. Since his sentence was 25 years in the first instance how can he get that reduced? By showing remorse and honesty?

Isn't that a bit late?
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Offline smacker


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

sorry if that sounded grumpy; not my finest day.
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Ann Coulter

Dont' Knox this 'serious network'

Just days after the Turner Broadcasting System CEO claimed that CNN "is a serious news network," it aired a childish report on "Anderson Cooper 360" about convicted murderer Amanda Knox, which appears to have been written by Amanda's parents.


http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2013-04-03.html


Thanks, guermantes. What a powerful piece. Thank you, Ann Coulter.


Much to my surprise, Coulter's no slouch (from her website):

"...Coulter graduated with honors from Cornell University School of Arts & Sciences, and received her J.D. from University of Michigan Law School, where she was an editor of The Michigan Law Review.

Coulter clerked for the Honorable Pasco Bowman II of the United States Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit and was an attorney in the Department of Justice Honors Program for outstanding law school graduates.

After practicing law in private practice in New York City, Coulter worked for the Senate Judiciary Committee, where she handled crime and immigration issues for Senator Spencer Abraham of Michigan. From there, she became a litigator with the Center For Individual Rights in Washington, DC, a public interest law firm dedicated to the defense of individual rights with particular emphasis on freedom of speech, civil rights, and the free exercise of religion.
"

To wit, she's probably casually forgotten more about the law than any of the Groupies will ever know.

So, in addition to Peerless Professor Dershowitz, we've got Nancy Grace (who can make or break what remains of Bremner's career with a snap of her fingers), former prosecutor/ HLN commentator/law professor Wendy Murphy and Ann "Order of the Coif" Coulter, all backing the majority opinion at PMF. Not too shabby.

I'm tempted to add Ted Simon to the list - IIRC, until he was retained by Knox, he'd have fit right in there ;-)

Ah, the power of money.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Coultier's bit one of the best I've read, in newsreel land, the biting cynicism has been what has been missing and wait until the usual idiotic persons start trying to harrass such people, oh dear.

Very good that such people have started to express different takes to the nonsense that was percolated through the news censorship department as encouraged and supported... bought by PR firm Marionette, or whatever his name is.

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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
JESTER!!! Damn..you're good.:) ...


I second that! Bravo!
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Very thorough article by Yummi about what happened during the SC appeal and I think it is important to quote the conclusion. I am not ready to jump to discussions about extradition yet, but there seems reason for optimism. Now I just hope the next appeals will go a bit faster :)

Quote:
So Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are sent back to appeal trial in Florence on all charges related to the rape and murder of Meredith Kercher (a, b, c, d, e). And Knox is definitely declared guilty of the obstruction of justice charge known as calunnia, while the argument denying any logical link between the calunnia and the murder is quashed.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php ... urt_rulin/
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Slightly brushed up version of the large cousin's words:
"We hadn't expected it (SC decision) at all, the family was really shocked, even though we knew of course about the appeal. ... This (first tv appearance) is very exciting for Amanda. She invited all her relatives to come to New York, and a lot of us will to give her support. ... Prison has changed her, she has become more cautious and serious."


Thanks, Ava! :)

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox Case: Judge Probably Understands Probability
By Dr. Carrie Valentine, PhD

A recent New York Times article reports that Italy’s Court of Cassation has overturned the acquittal of Amanda Knox for the murder of Meredith Kercher.
Although Schneps and Comez [sic] acknowledge that the Court has not yet publicly explained the motivations behind the ruling, they suggest that the failure of the judge to understand probability is the reason for overturning the acquittal. They report that the judge refused to allow a re-test of the knife with more recent DNA analysis techniques in 2011, the year of acquittal. The reasoning of the acquitting judge was reported to be “If the scientific community recognizes that a test on so small a sample cannot establish identity beyond a reasonable doubt, he explained, then neither could a second test on an even smaller sample.”


THE TRUTH ABOUT FORENSIC SCIENCE (BLOG)


The problem with this guy, is that he goes on about "international standards", which whenever I've seen the term used it is in fact an intellectually imperialistic euphemism for "American standards". There is in fact, no universal international "DNA panel" or UN or scientific body that has agreed on a set of standards to be implemented internationally just as there is no internationally uniform manner in which a continent or even each individual country develops and implements its DNA protocols, principles and techniques. There is no rigid framework as implied. The term "international standards" is a misnomer and as such, is ultimately misleading when used in articles on this subject.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Always love reading Yummi, he is to my mind about the most highly informed and best source of actual facts in relation to this case, a very intelligent person.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

max wrote:
Very thorough article by Yummi about what happened during the SC appeal and I think it is important to quote the conclusion. I am not ready to jump to discussions about extradition yet, but there seems reason for optimism. Now I just hope the next appeals will go a bit faster :)

Quote:
So Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are sent back to appeal trial in Florence on all charges related to the rape and murder of Meredith Kercher (a, b, c, d, e). And Knox is definitely declared guilty of the obstruction of justice charge known as calunnia, while the argument denying any logical link between the calunnia and the murder is quashed.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php ... urt_rulin/


Excellent. THE definitive explanation on understanding how the High Court deciphered Hellmann! At least until they release their report.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

leaving on a jet plane in half an hour this holiday was all work, booking tickets mainly

ciao boppers

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

actually, leaving for aeroporto in half an hour

knackered

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

The FOAKers are off again:

*************************
Amanda Knox, Raffaele Sollecito and the Curse of the Zombie Haters
by Nigel Scott April 03, 2013


GROUND REPORT
***********************************

My retort to the above article:

A better writer then your common garden FOAKer. Although, of course, it all falls down in terms of its content and choice of title.

The first thing I would say, is that we are not involved in any "campaign", so that's a exaggeration in terms. That we have a "web presence" suits us better. Certainly, when considered in contrast to the Knox advocacy campaign.

Casually, the term "credible evidence" is thrown out there (as in, none applies to Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, the old tired mantra). Of course, their criteria, and only criteria, for determining which evidence is credible and which is not, is not based on the evidence itself but on who the evidence applies to. Ergo, if the evidence applies to Knox or/and Sollecito then on that fact alone it is not credible. If it applies Guede, then it is not only credible, but is absolute fact and gospel truth. This is even though, all the evidence was gathered and presented by the same investigators. Of course, they can't say this outright so they have to attempt to explain why the evidence against Knox and Sollecito is not credible and in so doing, enter twisting of the facts, intellectual gymnastics, projection, conspiracy theories and hysteria. That is not a "credible" position for anyone who cares about actual Truth.

Scott claims:

Nigel Scott wrote:
The Perugian police and the local prosecutor Giuliano Mignini worked on hunch and ‘instinct’, briefed the media accordingly and put their case together later, a process that is considered normal in Italy but which is baffling to outsiders from more conventionally run police forces.


And here we see repeated, the same tactic to exonerate Knox in the eyes of a public they think cares, that we have seen for the last five or so years "But hey, forget about Knox and the evidence against her and the substance of the case, focus on putting the investigators on trial instead!". The true fact of this case was, that for the investigators to solve it, all they had to do was follow the evidence and the facts in a logical and impartial manner and that's exactly what they did. The evidence, the facts and the behaviour of the suspects, when viewed in its entirety, provide a clear narrative to the crime, the who - when - where and how, whilst also providing a variety of clues as to the why. Hunches and instinct weren't even required.

Over two weeks, Patrick Lumumba was able not only to disprove the evidence against him but prove his innocence, whilst Knox and Sollecito over five years, multiple court hearings, one pre-trial and two trials, despite having two highly paid well motivated legal teams, a whole gaggle of experts, private detectives and a very public advocacy campaign along with a stridently supportive US media, could not!

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"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
leaving on a jet plane in half an hour this holiday was all work, booking tickets mainly

ciao boppers


Have a nice holiday, Zorba and I hope it makes up for your disappointing stay in Milan! :)

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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Be safe and have fun Z!
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yes, an exceptional article by Yummi (Machiavelli) here: http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php ... urt_rulin/

summarizing what transpired in court very well. Any inaccuracies in my renderings are mine and unintentional. I hope I gave a feel for the proceedings. Note: it was in a much smaller court room than in the picture, and my misspelling of Dalla Vedova's name 'Carla' instead of Carlo was perhaps Freudian :)

Next up, my impressions of the day of decision. I'm glad I went to Rome; it was an amazing experience, and I am very glad for the Kerchers. Somewhere, the spirit of Meredith Kercher is smiling.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Something else, in addition to my recent post upthread.

I do not believe, to the point of certainty, that Knox's family & friends or the head honchos of the FOA and other long-term strident supporters believe in Knox's innocence. Nor do I believe that they believe their own talking points or in their regularly touted wild conspiracy theory that combines accusations of incompetency, corruption and anti-Americanism against the Italian investigators.

Of course, the fact that the advocacy campaign has required five years of a constant diatribe of twisted facts, false facts, spin, intellectual gymnastics, straw men, projection, conspiracy theories, pleas to authority, and pleas to incredulity toward the case itself and pathological hostility and aggression towards anyone with an opposing view to theirs and toward the victim and her family along with their lawyer, is a major clue to this fact. These things are not required if the person one is fighting for is truly innocent or at least, if you truly believe them to be. The facts and all the facts, the truth and the whole truth, is all that is required if one truly believes in innocence!

But for me, the real clincher is more subtle. If they truly believed Knox's innocence and their trumped up conspiracy theories against the Italian investigators, then their treatment of certain other parties would, in reality, be extremely different. Knox and Sollecito are completely innocent, have spent four years in an Italian Prison, has been convicted in trial and had her appeal acquittal completely annulled, yet none of Knox's defence team has been sacked, none of her supporters are calling for them to be, not even voicing harsh criticism against any of them? Surely, if someone is truly innocent, there is no credible evidence against them and there is credible evidence supporting their innocence, any competent and experienced team of lawyers and experts should have been expected to have demonstrated this and completely closed the case? And surely, if the conspiracy theories are true, one would have expected her lawyers to have demonstrated this and even to have spoken out to the media to hammer this home? And surely, if this was true, wouldn't one expect much of the clammer of the Knox-centric US media to be aimed at the Italian government and the US State Department to step in and deal with this "travesty". Yet, all we get is the same old tired talking points and claims. And finally, their primary monologue seems to now be focused on assertions that the US will not extradite Knox, even before she has had her second degree appeal retried. If she is truly innocent and they truly believe her to be so, and truly believe there is "no credible evidence"against her, wouldn't their actions instead be to focus on proving her 'undoubted' innocence in her re-appeal? And surely, would that not find her innocent and then be upheld by the High Court if that was truly so?

Having weighed all of the evidence and facts, I am certain Knox will be convicted on all charges. I am certain Knox and Sollecito are guilty of sexually assaulting and murdering Meredith Kercher. So are Knox's family and advocacy campaigners!

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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

A BIZARRE rant attacking Alan Dershowitz by Doug Bremner

Quote:
Alam Dershowitz- Are You Credentialed?
By Doug Bremner On April 4, 2013 · Leave a Comment

I really have to wonder about the lawyer Alam Dershowitz, who gets quoted frequently on the news, about his legal credentials. He made the claim in the Amanda Knox case that she “admitted she was at the crime scene” and that her DNA was on the murder weapon, knife. Well, Alan, I am not going to even spend any time on the DNA issue, since if you had spent any time researching it, you wouldn’t have made such a statement.

You also claimed that she had been found “guilty” in an Italian court of law. Well, Mr. legal-eagle, according to Italian law, which you obviously know nothing about, it takes two courts of law to find someone guilty. For her, in the second court of law, she was exonerated, which means that she was never found guilty. The high court (Cassazione) asked it to be sent back to the lower courts. That is not a guilty verdict, just a request for a re-review.

Before you go firing off your mouth about this case, Alan, you should aquaint yourself with the specifics of the law. Anyone hiring you as a counselor would expect that much from you. But maybe years of seeking media attention have tainted you in you search for the truth.

http://www.beforeyoutakethatpill.com/in ... dentialed/



Can you feel the rage?
"For her, in the second court of law, she was exonerated, which means that she was never found guilty." Where did he get that piece of 'legal brilliance', a PR release?
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

smacker wrote:
capealadin wrote:
I wondered the same thing. It seems as though they're in it together until the end. However..I haven't had anyone respond to my earlier question as to whether there can be 2 seperate verdicts. One for Knox..and one for Raf.

I believe I read somewhere that Raf mentioned in his book that his attorneys wanted him to throw Knox under the bus..but Raf...THE HERO..wouldn't go along with that.

He MAY be rethinking that now.


He may fling Knox under the bus but where does that get him? His DNA is on the bra clasp and places him at the crime scene. Since his sentence was 25 years in the first instance how can he get that reduced? By showing remorse and honesty?

Isn't that a bit late?


Theoretically, he could have an out. It would require his fabrication of an entirely new story wherein he was not involved in the actual murder, but in acquiescence to Knox's persuasive pleas, was only involved in the staging. That he has not come forward with this new 'truth' until now is due to a misplaced loyalty and sympathy to Knox. He would have to throw Knox under the bus.

It would have to be plausible and convincing. It would also have to align with the known key facts whilst not contradicting any. It would have to be good! But, for it to stand any chance of acceptance by the court, it would have to be offered from his own mouth, as a sort of confession from the heart. It just suddenly being spouted by his lawyers and only by his lawyers on his behalf, won't go over. Sollecito would have to take the stand!

In theory Sollecito could engineer his acquittal for the murder and cop for lesser charges. In reality, the fact that he'd have to take the stand to do so, being such a terrible liar and a dimwit along with having zero charisma, makes his chances of pulling it off absolutely zero.

That said however, I am expecting Sollecito's defence team to attempt some key change in strategy, perhaps one along these lines, and throw Knox under the bus. They have no choice now, not really. The FOAKers fear this will happen. They always have.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
A BIZARRE rant attacking Alan Dershowitz by Doug Bremner

Quote:
Alam Dershowitz- Are You Credentialed?
By Doug Bremner On April 4, 2013 · Leave a Comment

I really have to wonder about the lawyer Alam Dershowitz, who gets quoted frequently on the news, about his legal credentials. He made the claim in the Amanda Knox case that she “admitted she was at the crime scene” and that her DNA was on the murder weapon, knife. Well, Alan, I am not going to even spend any time on the DNA issue, since if you had spent any time researching it, you wouldn’t have made such a statement.

You also claimed that she had been found “guilty” in an Italian court of law. Well, Mr. legal-eagle, according to Italian law, which you obviously know nothing about, it takes two courts of law to find someone guilty. For her, in the second court of law, she was exonerated, which means that she was never found guilty. The high court (Cassazione) asked it to be sent back to the lower courts. That is not a guilty verdict, just a request for a re-review.

Before you go firing off your mouth about this case, Alan, you should aquaint yourself with the specifics of the law. Anyone hiring you as a counselor would expect that much from you. But maybe years of seeking media attention have tainted you in you search for the truth.

http://www.beforeyoutakethatpill.com/in ... dentialed/



Can you feel the rage?
"For her, in the second court of law, she was exonerated, which means that she was never found guilty." Where did he get that piece of 'legal brilliance', a PR release?


Doug clearly doesn't know (or doesn't want to know) what the legal term "annulled" means.

And here they go, demanding peoples credentials again. That exonerates Knox!

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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
A BIZARRE rant attacking Alan Dershowitz by Doug Bremner

Quote:
Alam Dershowitz- Are You Credentialed?
By Doug Bremner On April 4, 2013 · Leave a Comment

I really have to wonder about the lawyer Alam Dershowitz, who gets quoted frequently on the news, about his legal credentials. He made the claim in the Amanda Knox case that she “admitted she was at the crime scene” and that her DNA was on the murder weapon, knife. Well, Alan, I am not going to even spend any time on the DNA issue, since if you had spent any time researching it, you wouldn’t have made such a statement.

You also claimed that she had been found “guilty” in an Italian court of law. Well, Mr. legal-eagle, according to Italian law, which you obviously know nothing about, it takes two courts of law to find someone guilty. For her, in the second court of law, she was exonerated, which means that she was never found guilty. The high court (Cassazione) asked it to be sent back to the lower courts. That is not a guilty verdict, just a request for a re-review.

Before you go firing off your mouth about this case, Alan, you should aquaint yourself with the specifics of the law. Anyone hiring you as a counselor would expect that much from you. But maybe years of seeking media attention have tainted you in you search for the truth.

http://www.beforeyoutakethatpill.com/in ... dentialed/



Can you feel the rage?
"For her, in the second court of law, she was exonerated, which means that she was never found guilty." Where did he get that piece of 'legal brilliance', a PR release?


Wow. Nice find Louie. So to be clear, Doug Bremner who is a well respected brain doctor but NOT a well respected lawyer is going toe to toe with a Harvard Law Professor over points of international law? I imagine the day Doug takes medical advice from Alan D is the same day that Alan will pay attention to Doug's legal musings.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Bon Voyage, Zorba. Hope you have a fabulous time. How long are you going for?

Hmmm...Alan sure hit a nerve with Doug. Thanks for the find, Louie.

His sister Anne was on a show..for about 10 nana seconds.....Not Nancy Grace's......but was swallowed up by 3 others on the show. Her TV career is over. Her brother Doug didn't exactly come over as a bright spark re: helping ( lying?) to cover Anne's a**.

Oh, and I doubt Alan is bothered by Doug's outburst. ( insert swatting a gnat here).

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Bon Voyage, Zorba. Hope you have a fabulous time. How long are you going for?

Hmmm...Alan sure hit a nerve with Doug. Thanks for the find, Louie.

His sister Anne was on a show..for about 10 nana seconds.....Not Nancy Grace's......but was swallowed up by 3 others on the show. Her TV career is over. Her brother Doug didn't exactly come over as a bright spark re: helping ( lying?) to cover Anne's a**.

Oh, and I doubt Alan is bothered by Doug's outburst. ( insert swatting a gnat here).



Cape and Michael and everyone,

I just went back home, from London, for the moment, attempt at a holiday finished, but I'm making plans, this trip was a bit crazy though it was nice to see my family even if I hadn't planned on going to see them, sorry, too tired to write clearly.


Hey folks, ol Doug B sounds as fruitcakery as sis, perhaps she does the booze and crawls along in the kerb (gutter) then blames and threatens the cops, maybe he does the coke and smack and blames lawyers; is that ignorant so and so serious? For fcuk's sake

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:56 am   Post subject: DECISION AT CASSAZIONE   

(cont'd from Cassazione Part IV)

This is why I got involved in the Meredith Kercher case, and which has brought me here to Cassazione. To one day, see justice be done, and my commitment sees me here in Rome. It's been quite a struggle to balance my other work and heavy family responsibilities, but I do care about the world that I will leave behind for my children, and am honored to have taken up Meredith's cause for the last three years. Yes, I get passionate about my causes, which has in the past been anti-apartheid, Vietnam war, anti-war, pro-Palestine. I even worked on the campaign to try elect a female president in Pakistan, back in 1964. Meredith's cause was simply an extension of this, but has come over the years to take on a spiritual dimension that transcends mere reasons of logic or law.

A reporter asks me: "why're you so involved?" And I reply that I asked this question of all of you a while back: what drew you to this case? It is this question, I think, that will better help us understand ourselves, but also, why Meredith was so important to us. It was about justice, but also, about our deeper spiritual selves, and our need for peace. Another reporter (they got to know me quite well in court) asked whether I was Meredith's uncle! seeing as I come from the same city as Arline Kercher. No, but I'm sure that there was an affinity based on that. Never mind. It's a good question. Why am I here? And where do I go from here?

It's been a good two weeks in Italy. I arrived on the 18th and was delayed at the train station, getting a phone; I arrive late in Perugia and miss my appointment with PM Mignini. (Met him later, another story, later) The sun was finally out yet as I get on the train, it's pouring rain. I feel those are cleansing tears, and feel hopeful that justice will finally be done. But I'm also glad I am here, to witness it.

The train from Perugia arrives in Rome the afternoon of the 24th, and it's gloriously sunny. Yet, that night in my hotel room, I'm woken by a heavy storm and lightning that once again, feels like cleansing tears.

It's sunny but cold the morning of the 25th, so I make my way to Cassazione and am there till after 9:00 PM, when the announcement is made that the court will render its decision the next day, 10:00 AM, March 26, 2013. Regardless of what many are now saying it was clear the appeal would be won, the fact is the consensus among the reporters in court that night was that Knox and Sollecito would win. But I saw Bongiorno's face fall when she received that call at 8:35 PM, and believe that is when she found out which way the decision would go (Which is why papa Sollecito and Frank Sfarzo weren't in court the next day)

9:30 AM, March 26, 2013: I'm there early. It's a bright sunny day, and I am hopeful. New shirt and tie, and the briefcase of course:) Some reporters are lost, but I've been in and out so many times I lead them through the many halls, elevator from the cafeteria, right then left, left.

10:00 AM: The doors open, and we go in. Standing room only. The judges enter at 10:05 AM, and at 10:07, bang! a complete victory for the appeal, and the decision read in less than 60 seconds by the presiding judge. Complete, shocked silence in court. Maresca dashes over to hand some papers to the bench, and the lawyers huddle together. Outside, the defense put on a brave face, but they look shell shocked, the defeat is complete.

I shake Maresca's hand, and head out. He says to the waiting reporters, at least now they know they will get a fair hearing in Florence, but really, this is his style. He won't gloat about what was the end of a long and shameful episode in the treatment of this case.

But first, I go to public relations to get a copy of the dispositivo (they had to call the court clerk's office to have it sent down to them and it appears I got the first copy, no one else had asked by 10:30 AM) and I pass it on to the other reporters so they head off to the clerk's office to get their copies. I also find out how to get a copy of the reasoning report when it is released in the future.

Then I go out and watch the reporters file their stories with the waiting TV cameras. Watching the reports on the news later, I ask: Are these the same people that complained to me about how the story was 'worth nothing as compared to real problems' they'd rather be reporting, like war and the economy? That 'it doesn't matter at all except to the families'? I replied that well justice is always important but they said the only reason they were there was because their head offices wanted to push the story. (Funny, but when I returned to Piazza Cavour two days later there was an NBC crew from London complaining about how they should have been on their way home but were still there for reasons undetermined :)

I spend the rest of the day meeting reporters and once again, the rain starts to fall. Let it pour. I find it cleansing, healing.

Tomorrow, I'm going to start enjoying my vacation. But tonight, I will find Pesci Fritti, a lovely trattoria off piazza dei Satiri, and, enjoying my dinner, raise a glass to the Kerchers and to Meredith. RIP, Meredith Kercher.

(to be continued in my series about Perugia)


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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Zorba..this is for you. Just have a WONDERFUL time. Spoil yourself a little. I feel you always give SO much of yourself.

When you get back..I'm going to message you with something that I know you will laugh your socks off. I know I did..and guess what..

It has nothing to do with this case..but it's something my fave actress said..about Frank Sinatra.

Yes. Ava Gardner..I would love to have hung out with her....Anyway...it was maybe the BEST thing anyone ever said......

Hurry back, HON......

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael......

So wonderful to see you on board. You have lost none of your wonderful insights..your great FFS's. which always make me laugh.

You always get the point.

Ergon..Your endeavour is so appreciated. The photos..the inside scoop. Thank you.

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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
A BIZARRE rant attacking Alan Dershowitz by Doug Bremner

Quote:
Alam Dershowitz- Are You Credentialed?
By Doug Bremner On April 4, 2013 · Leave a Comment

I really have to wonder about the lawyer Alam Dershowitz, who gets quoted frequently on the news, about his legal credentials. He made the claim in the Amanda Knox case that she “admitted she was at the crime scene” and that her DNA was on the murder weapon, knife. Well, Alan, I am not going to even spend any time on the DNA issue, since if you had spent any time researching it, you wouldn’t have made such a statement.

You also claimed that she had been found “guilty” in an Italian court of law. Well, Mr. legal-eagle, according to Italian law, which you obviously know nothing about, it takes two courts of law to find someone guilty. For her, in the second court of law, she was exonerated, which means that she was never found guilty. The high court (Cassazione) asked it to be sent back to the lower courts. That is not a guilty verdict, just a request for a re-review.

Before you go firing off your mouth about this case, Alan, you should aquaint yourself with the specifics of the law. Anyone hiring you as a counselor would expect that much from you. But maybe years of seeking media attention have tainted you in you search for the truth.

http://www.beforeyoutakethatpill.com/in ... dentialed/



Can you feel the rage?
"For her, in the second court of law, she was exonerated, which means that she was never found guilty." Where did he get that piece of 'legal brilliance', a PR release?



Questioning Professor D.'s credentials?!

Are the FOA trying to look stupid?!

How do you beat graduating first in your class at what is widely regarded as the World's greatest law school (Yale)?!

How do you beat making full professor at Harvard Law School before the age of 30?!

How do you 'one up' a World Famous appellate criminal lawyer whose work has even been featured in an Academy Award winning film?!

How many papers on transnational law has Doug published?!

At this point, how would a person of reasonable intelligence conclude that the "advocacy" of the FOA is anything more than a full-on SMEAR campaign with no regard for the truth?
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hey Naps..the youngest turned One year old today. Big party Saturday.

I really am the luckiest Mom/Nana in the World. Of course..we all feel that.

Sending out a wish tonight. Give all your loved ones a kiss and a hug. o-(( k-((

And love and kisses to all of you ...for Meredith and her Family. Because we keep the faith..and far from hate..we are for justice...and her voice. We do not forget...G-d knows..i can't believe this is my 4th year in. I do sometimes wonder..why does this case keep me drawn in?

Meredith's smile? The needlessness of it all? The assumption just because the killer looks innocent? A PR effort to find the guilty without blame?

No and to the hell..NO. I'm staying. Because of The Machine..because of a post done by MISREPRESENTED. ( really good)

Because of Michael. And because of so many of you here. And at .ORG. Yeah..they booted me..But..I so appreciate the members here and there.

Things are looking good, my friends. Ergon...taking the trouble to go to Rome..and giving us the nitty gritty. Wonderful photos.

Thanks also to Tamale. Because..it cannot be discounted. A person who..although believing in innocence..comes here..with respect..really alone..and is prepared to have an open mind.

And..I have to say...unlike on other sites..everyone here has been so courteous.

I have long wanted to say THANK YOU to all of you. Because..you have put up with me..sometimes * spicy* sometimes really stupid with the techy stuff..and G-d knows..too many emoticons.

Special kisses to Jackie..Naps..Daisy..dg..G..Flowers..Some alibi..Z..Nell..Ava..Big E..BARD..

And Michael..Especially Michael. From the beginning..when I was a newbie..Michael always gave me his time and respect. i don't forget.

Why this post? Someone I knew..died recently. I'm very sad..but take comfort that I was there..and he knew that I loved him.

Today..some of us watched videos. And..I just think it's SO important to let loved ones know we love them.

This may seem it has nothing to do with this case. But..to me it does.. We are support..we are a voice.

r-(( r-(( r-((

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Offline capealadin


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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:58 am

Posts: 4089

Highscores: 11

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

And Jackie...I really..really adore you. We go back a long time my friend. Ever since your posts on Jref...Oh..my F**ck..how much I laughed.

AND..how unique..to find someone so smart AND funny. You are THE best. Kisses always.

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Offline capealadin


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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:58 am

Posts: 4089

Highscores: 11

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jackie..sending you a pm. Just finished a bio on Ava Gardner..She was AMAZING..in any event..I think you'll love something she said. Check me out.

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Offline Jackie


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Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:38 am

Posts: 904

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Cape, I'm warning you, keep it up and I'm going to book a suite at The Wynn and send you a ticket ;-)

Then we'll find Sharon and even the score.
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Offline dollycat


Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:59 pm

Posts: 38

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:24 am   Post subject: Re: DECISION AT CASSAZIONE   

Ergon wrote:
(cont'd from Cassazione Part IV)

This is why I got involved in the Meredith Kercher case, and which has brought me here to Cassazione. To one day, see justice be done, and my commitment sees me here in Rome. It's been quite a struggle to balance my other work and heavy family responsibilities, but I do care about the world that I will leave behind for my children, and am honored to have taken up Meredith's cause for the last three years. Yes, I get passionate about my causes, which has in the past been anti-apartheid, Vietnam war, anti-war, pro-Palestine. I even worked on the campaign to try elect a female president in Pakistan, back in 1964. Meredith's cause was simply an extension of this, but has come over the years to take on a spiritual dimension that transcends mere reasons of logic or law.
.....................


Ergon - thank you so much for being there and for reporting back - like you, little things drew me to the case such as living a couple of miles from Coulsdon but as time has gone on I couldn't stand the unfairness of it all - we cannot live in a world where people who are obviously guilty get away with murder - it cannot happen, I have a beautiful little daughter and I worry constantly about what sort of world she will grow up in - the Kerchers have faced the most unimaginable horror and I am so sad that nothing will bring Meredith back to them but now hopefully justice will be done and thats all we want. Being a member of .org and.net and reading TJMK has taught me a lot - about the different types of people there are in the world - good and not so good - and how different people of all ages, from all sorts of backgrounds can work together, share their views and - just as importantly - have a laugh. Thank you to everyone, I so appreciate each and every member. *sorry - just having a soppy moment*

RIP Meredith
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Offline Michael

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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Hey Naps..the youngest turned One year old today. Big party Saturday.

I really am the luckiest Mom/Nana in the World. Of course..we all feel that.

Sending out a wish tonight. Give all your loved ones a kiss and a hug. o-(( k-((

And love and kisses to all of you ...for Meredith and her Family. Because we keep the faith..and far from hate..we are for justice...and her voice. We do not forget...G-d knows..i can't believe this is my 4th year in. I do sometimes wonder..why does this case keep me drawn in?

Meredith's smile? The needlessness of it all? The assumption just because the killer looks innocent? A PR effort to find the guilty without blame?

No and to the hell..NO. I'm staying. Because of The Machine..because of a post done by MISREPRESENTED. ( really good)

Because of Michael. And because of so many of you here. And at .ORG. Yeah..they booted me..But..I so appreciate the members here and there.

Things are looking good, my friends. Ergon...taking the trouble to go to Rome..and giving us the nitty gritty. Wonderful photos.

Thanks also to Tamale. Because..it cannot be discounted. A person who..although believing in innocence..comes here..with respect..really alone..and is prepared to have an open mind.

And..I have to say...unlike on other sites..everyone here has been so courteous.

I have long wanted to say THANK YOU to all of you. Because..you have put up with me..sometimes * spicy* sometimes really stupid with the techy stuff..and G-d knows..too many emoticons.

Special kisses to Jackie..Naps..Daisy..dg..G..Flowers..Some alibi..Z..Nell..Ava..Big E..BARD..

And Michael..Especially Michael. From the beginning..when I was a newbie..Michael always gave me his time and respect. i don't forget.

Why this post? Someone I knew..died recently. I'm very sad..but take comfort that I was there..and he knew that I loved him.

Today..some of us watched videos. And..I just think it's SO important to let loved ones know we love them.

This may seem it has nothing to do with this case. But..to me it does.. We are support..we are a voice.


r-(( r-(( r-((


Thank you for this loving post to the community, Cape :) I'm sorry to hear about the death of a loved one :( And something happening like that certainly makes us reach out to all those people we care about. It brings things into perspective.

And as it happens, the timing is very apt. I'm sorry to hit everyone with this. I will say now, that one of our core PMF.net members, one who is very popular and has done so much for this community and for Meredith's cause, one who is also my friend, is potentially very seriously ill. I say potentially, as initial tests came back with extremely bad news. They are now awaiting further more detailed and confirmatory test results that are due back some time during the next 24 hours. It may be and I very much hope, that these new results show the initial ones to be in error. Sometimes, every now and then, preliminary results turn out to be wrong. I will not at this time say who this person is, either on the board or in PM, as they have stated they are not ready for it to be announced as they are still trying to come to terms with it themselves. The news was a shock, as it came completely out of the blue (both to them and to me and the other one or two people here that also know about it). In fact, this is why I was so quiet (to the point most thought I was completely absent) the day of the High Court hearing. I arrived on the board that morning, after having taken a little time out to recharge, ready for the business of the day and was hit with this news. I was so upset by it, I didn't have the will to take part in the hearing discussions, even though I was following all the board discussion throughout the day.

I ask, if you are willing, that all our members and readers that care about the PMF.net community please send your positive thoughts and prayers out to the PMF.net membership. Some of that positivity may just reach and help our friend.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi cape - so sad to hear about your friend but if you love them, they never really die and your friend sounds lucky enough to have people to make him live forever. Hugs and big love to you and yours xxx

To Michael and the ill PMF'er - more hugs and love to you both. Fingers crossed its just a false positive on the first test, stranger things have happened. I don't pray but I do believe that positive thoughts are infectious and they can help (there's science behind that idea but that's for another time!) so huge amounts of good vibes coming Michael's way and to all the PMF members, ill or otherwise. You're all amazing :) xx
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Omg, what sad news...I'm very sorry to hear about your loss, cape.
And am crossing my fingers for the pmf member. r-((
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Offline Napia5


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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

(Computer issues have kept my posts brief and few lately).

Beautiful sentiments, all. How could any of us have known that clicking on a news article years ago about the murder of a beautiful young woman would have set our feet on this path so many years later?

Trying to explain why I'm here, what keeps me here, is a bigger question than I have words to answer. Reading cape's and Michael's posts, and others this morning, my eyes filled with tears. Tears of sadness for cape's recent loss. Tears for Michael's news of the illness of one of our members. Hoping and praying for the best.

And yet, with the sadness and the worry and concern, a brief smile. A bit of comfort. News of cape's upcoming birthday celebration. Jackie's wit. Daisysteiner's right-to-the-heart logic. All a comfort. All dependable. All a source of joy on less somber days.

I've come to depend on all of this, all of you, over these past few years. As a source of strength through some dark days, and a source of humor and wit when things get out of hand, out of control, as things can quickly do.

I wanted to do something for the cause of justice, for Meredith and her suffering family. And I found, quite surprisingly that the memory of Meredith has done much, much more for me and my life than I could ever hope to do for her.

Working for justice for Meredith has brought me here, to PMF. Why am I here? What holds me here? Quite simply put, it's my home.

Ergon, Zorba and Nell. Tron, Ava, and all the rest of our posters. Love to all of you. There's always the fear that I will miss someone. Certainly not intentional. We're all pieces of this puzzle. All needed to complete the picture.

Now, I'm going to go have a good cry and a cup of coffee. And get back to fixing my computer (yeah, that will happen. Sounds like a trip to Staples is on the horizon).
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Offline Ergon

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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7192

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Hey Naps..the youngest turned One year old today. Big party Saturday.

I really am the luckiest Mom/Nana in the World. Of course..we all feel that.

Sending out a wish tonight. Give all your loved ones a kiss and a hug. o-(( k-((

And love and kisses to all of you ...for Meredith and her Family. Because we keep the faith..and far from hate..we are for justice...and her voice. We do not forget...G-d knows..i can't believe this is my 4th year in. I do sometimes wonder..why does this case keep me drawn in?

Meredith's smile? The needlessness of it all? The assumption just because the killer looks innocent? A PR effort to find the guilty without blame?

No and to the hell..NO. I'm staying. Because of The Machine..because of a post done by MISREPRESENTED. ( really good)

Because of Michael. And because of so many of you here. And at .ORG. Yeah..they booted me..But..I so appreciate the members here and there.

Things are looking good, my friends. Ergon...taking the trouble to go to Rome..and giving us the nitty gritty. Wonderful photos.

Thanks also to Tamale. Because..it cannot be discounted. A person who..although believing in innocence..comes here..with respect..really alone..and is prepared to have an open mind.

And..I have to say...unlike on other sites..everyone here has been so courteous.

I have long wanted to say THANK YOU to all of you. Because..you have put up with me..sometimes * spicy* sometimes really stupid with the techy stuff..and G-d knows..too many emoticons.

Special kisses to Jackie..Naps..Daisy..dg..G..Flowers..Some alibi..Z..Nell..Ava..Big E..BARD..

And Michael..Especially Michael. From the beginning..when I was a newbie..Michael always gave me his time and respect. i don't forget.

Why this post? Someone I knew..died recently. I'm very sad..but take comfort that I was there..and he knew that I loved him.

Today..some of us watched videos. And..I just think it's SO important to let loved ones know we love them.

This may seem it has nothing to do with this case. But..to me it does.. We are support..we are a voice.

r-(( r-(( r-((


Hey, capealadin,
Yes, you are a lucky nana, and happy birthday and much love to the youngest.
Much love, also, to all the members of PMF.
When I returned from Rome, I found out that my beloved aunt, who'd been battling cancer for eight years, was sent home as there was nothing further they could do. She's on palliative care, but she's fighting.
Another favourite aunt, just got the news she had cancer, and it already had spread so much it's terminal. She refused treatment, and just wants to go.
I have done a lot of work with spirit and the journey to the 'other side' and dimensions, so to me death is just a journey.
But to all those that have lost loved ones, or are ill: much love, and good thoughts to all.

There some things I have to tend to now, but as soon as I am able, I'll be happy to share my thoughts and visions of Perugia.
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:32 pm   Post subject: Re: DECISION AT CASSAZIONE   

Ergon wrote:
(cont'd from Cassazione Part IV)

...

A reporter asks me: "why're you so involved?" And I reply that I asked this question of all of you a while back: what drew you to this case? It is this question, I think, that will better help us understand ourselves, but also, why Meredith was so important to us. It was about justice, but also, about our deeper spiritual selves, and our need for peace. Another reporter (they got to know me quite well in court) asked whether I was Meredith's uncle! seeing as I come from the same city as Arline Kercher. No, but I'm sure that there was an affinity based on that. Never mind. It's a good question. Why am I here? And where do I go from here?

...

It's sunny but cold the morning of the 25th, so I make my way to Cassazione and am there till after 9:00 PM, when the announcement is made that the court will render its decision the next day, 10:00 AM, March 26, 2013. Regardless of what many are now saying it was clear the appeal would be won, the fact is the consensus among the reporters in court that night was that Knox and Sollecito would win. But I saw Bongiorno's face fall when she received that call at 8:35 PM, and believe that is when she found out which way the decision would go (Which is why papa Sollecito and Frank Sfarzo weren't in court the next day)


Nice read, as usual, Ergon, please keep going :)

Maybe it's also a longing for clarity (and truth) why we're so interested in court cases and justice, as one lawyer/author put it the other day (in some newspaper, never mind who and where).

I must say, the cluelessness of most of those reporters you met seems a little depressing to me, but then they didn't even want to go there in the first place, apparently.
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Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ah Cape... hugz-) your way! Everyone take care and thanks for everything! gh-))
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Something else, in addition to my recent post upthread.

I do not believe, to the point of certainty, that Knox's family & friends or the head honchos of the FOA and other long-term strident supporters believe in Knox's innocence. Nor do I believe that they believe their own talking points or in their regularly touted wild conspiracy theory that combines accusations of incompetency, corruption and anti-Americanism against the Italian investigators.

Of course, the fact that the advocacy campaign has required five years of a constant diatribe of twisted facts, false facts, spin, intellectual gymnastics, straw men, projection, conspiracy theories, pleas to authority, and pleas to incredulity toward the case itself and pathological hostility and aggression towards anyone with an opposing view to theirs and toward the victim and her family along with their lawyer, is a major clue to this fact. These things are not required if the person one is fighting for is truly innocent or at least, if you truly believe them to be. The facts and all the facts, the truth and the whole truth, is all that is required if one truly believes in innocence!

But for me, the real clincher is more subtle. If they truly believed Knox's innocence and their trumped up conspiracy theories against the Italian investigators, then their treatment of certain other parties would, in reality, be extremely different. Knox and Sollecito are completely innocent, have spent four years in an Italian Prison, has been convicted in trial and had her appeal acquittal completely annulled, yet none of Knox's defence team has been sacked, none of her supporters are calling for them to be, not even voicing harsh criticism against any of them? Surely, if someone is truly innocent, there is no credible evidence against them and there is credible evidence supporting their innocence, any competent and experienced team of lawyers and experts should have been expected to have demonstrated this and completely closed the case? And surely, if the conspiracy theories are true, one would have expected her lawyers to have demonstrated this and even to have spoken out to the media to hammer this home? And surely, if this was true, wouldn't one expect much of the clammer of the Knox-centric US media to be aimed at the Italian government and the US State Department to step in and deal with this "travesty". Yet, all we get is the same old tired talking points and claims. And finally, their primary monologue seems to now be focused on assertions that the US will not extradite Knox, even before she has had her second degree appeal retried. If she is truly innocent and they truly believe her to be so, and truly believe there is "no credible evidence"against her, wouldn't their actions instead be to focus on proving her 'undoubted' innocence in her re-appeal? And surely, would that not find her innocent and then be upheld by the High Court if that was truly so?

Having weighed all of the evidence and facts, I am certain Knox will be convicted on all charges. I am certain Knox and Sollecito are guilty of sexually assaulting and murdering Meredith Kercher. So are Knox's family and advocacy campaigners!


Just imagine if Amanda suddenly confessed. Maybe they'd blame it on some demon that possesses her, sent by Mignini, or something Italian at least.
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Hey, capealadin,
Yes, you are a lucky nana, and happy birthday and much love to the youngest.
Much love, also, to all the members of PMF.
When I returned from Rome, I found out that my beloved aunt, who'd been battling cancer for eight years, was sent home as there was nothing further they could do. She's on palliative care, but she's fighting.
Another favourite aunt, just got the news she had cancer, and it already had spread so much it's terminal. She refused treatment, and just wants to go.
I have done a lot of work with spirit and the journey to the 'other side' and dimensions, so to me death is just a journey.
But to all those that have lost loved ones, or are ill: much love, and good thoughts to all.

There some things I have to tend to now, but as soon as I am able, I'll be happy to share my thoughts and visions of Perugia.


I'm sorry to hear about your aunts, Ergon. :(
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Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I hope almost, that those who supported Knox and Sollecito, all of those weird fcuks, have something awful happen to them, in a way I wish it was them, more than Knox and Sollecito, gettng to spend 25 years in prison, bastards, in a way, they are even worse, there is a Gnostic story of Jesus, different than the Christian take, where a certain type of person is seen as worse than the first doer of wrong, simply because they could have known better, and did know better, but did the wrong anyway.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
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Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

Posts: 1564

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Just imagine if Amanda suddenly confessed. Maybe they'd blame it on some demon that possesses her, sent by Mignini, or something Italian at least.

Yah, I thought about that also. No supporter will ever admit to being wrong on anything. None of them were interested in the Galati appeal. None have gone back to see where they went wrong. So yes, definitely the Italians fault (again). Knox confessing (again) is just cuz she is being forced by evil Italians in exchange for a lesser sentence or maybe they are implanting those imaginary imaginations again. What choice does she have? Look at Rudy. He 'falsely' accused the other 2 and he 'only' got 16 years. It is all cuz Mignini is saving his face ...or something.
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Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Dear Cape,

My sincere condolences for the loss of your friend.

And thank you for your kind words, I was really glad to see you come back and start writing again.

What you said the other day about your mother reminded me exactly of my own.

My mother doesn't use any gadgets and in the end, I think that's not bad, it is not all great, she isn't bugged by anything, the phone, well, we gave up trying to teach her how to send or even receive text messages; I arrived once to see my messages from 6 months ago hadn't been seen, as she didn't know where to find them. Kind of envy her not being consumed by technology.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi Ergon,

Sorry to hear about all of your aunts.

I can relate, in a way, as my aunt just does in London, 2 weeks ago and she was my favourite aunt, but nobody even let me know, I guess they didnt know how upset it made me, as I really loved that aunt even though I hardly got to see her, but, I remember her from when I still had a chauffeur and was driven around in my pram, I miss those days and could do with a pram, it used to be so cosy, I didn't like the shopping muscling in on my crib though, and when my brother was born and I was kicked out I was sore, it just wasn't fair, all that walking, and the wee little legs, it was cruel, and cold, I would have gladly stayed in my pram until now.
I admit, the bottle may have changed to a beer one, and in my darker days, smoke might have been spotted coming out of the pram, but, damn, I don't think I ever got wet, sheer luxury.
I may buy myself a pram, I've had enough, surely I can hire a nanny.

So yes, my aunt takes me back to a sunny afternoon, and smiles, she was always smiling and looked like my mother but was much taller, and older.

Where was I, oh yeah, I forgot, I'm all grown up.

I'd better shut up

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
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Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Hey Naps..the youngest turned One year old today. Big party Saturday.

I really am the luckiest Mom/Nana in the World. Of course..we all feel that.

Sending out a wish tonight. Give all your loved ones a kiss and a hug. o-(( k-((

And love and kisses to all of you ...for Meredith and her Family. Because we keep the faith..and far from hate..we are for justice...and her voice. We do not forget...G-d knows..i can't believe this is my 4th year in. I do sometimes wonder..why does this case keep me drawn in?

Meredith's smile? The needlessness of it all? The assumption just because the killer looks innocent? A PR effort to find the guilty without blame?

No and to the hell..NO. I'm staying. Because of The Machine..because of a post done by MISREPRESENTED. ( really good)

Because of Michael. And because of so many of you here. And at .ORG. Yeah..they booted me..But..I so appreciate the members here and there.

Things are looking good, my friends. Ergon...taking the trouble to go to Rome..and giving us the nitty gritty. Wonderful photos.

Thanks also to Tamale. Because..it cannot be discounted. A person who..although believing in innocence..comes here..with respect..really alone..and is prepared to have an open mind.

And..I have to say...unlike on other sites..everyone here has been so courteous.

I have long wanted to say THANK YOU to all of you. Because..you have put up with me..sometimes * spicy* sometimes really stupid with the techy stuff..and G-d knows..too many emoticons.

Special kisses to Jackie..Naps..Daisy..dg..G..Flowers..Some alibi..Z..Nell..Ava..Big E..BARD..

And Michael..Especially Michael. From the beginning..when I was a newbie..Michael always gave me his time and respect. i don't forget.

Why this post? Someone I knew..died recently. I'm very sad..but take comfort that I was there..and he knew that I loved him.

Today..some of us watched videos. And..I just think it's SO important to let loved ones know we love them.

This may seem it has nothing to do with this case. But..to me it does.. We are support..we are a voice.


r-(( r-(( r-((


Thank you for this loving post to the community, Cape :) I'm sorry to hear about the death of a loved one :( And something happening like that certainly makes us reach out to all those people we care about. It brings things into perspective.

And as it happens, the timing is very apt. I'm sorry to hit everyone with this. I will say now, that one of our core PMF.net members, one who is very popular and has done so much for this community and for Meredith's cause, one who is also my friend, is potentially very seriously ill. I say potentially, as initial tests came back with extremely bad news. They are now awaiting further more detailed and confirmatory test results that are due back some time during the next 24 hours. It may be and I very much hope, that these new results show the initial ones to be in error. Sometimes, every now and then, preliminary results turn out to be wrong. I will not at this time say who this person is, either on the board or in PM, as they have stated they are not ready for it to be announced as they are still trying to come to terms with it themselves. The news was a shock, as it came completely out of the blue (both to them and to me and the other one or two people here that also know about it). In fact, this is why I was so quiet (to the point most thought I was completely absent) the day of the High Court hearing. I arrived on the board that morning, after having taken a little time out to recharge, ready for the business of the day and was hit with this news. I was so upset by it, I didn't have the will to take part in the hearing discussions, even though I was following all the board discussion throughout the day.

I ask, if you are willing, that all our members and readers that care about the PMF.net community please send your positive thoughts and prayers out to the PMF.net membership. Some of that positivity may just reach and help our friend.


That sounds very worrying Michael, I don't know what to say.
I hope that it is going to be alright.
Wishing much strength to all.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

New Chelsea Hoffman article in the Examiner.

http://www.examiner.com/article/on-aman ... f-the-park
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Offline guermantes

Links & Gallery Moderator


User avatar


Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

Posts: 4883

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Can't remember if this link has been posted here before or not... It seems that la_) has a growing army of admirers enchanted by her 'beauty' and uninhibited demeanor outside the crime scene and at the police station. What a deplorable question (the bolded sentence) to ask.

What's in the Amanda Knox memoir 'Waiting to Be Heard'?
By Mary Pols

Mary Pols wrote:
My biggest hope for Knox's book is that she speaks out against the sexual judgments passed upon her. I don't want her to apologize for being touchy feely or flirty or whatever it was that caused her to sit on Sollecito's lap or kiss him outside the crime scene; I want her to put that behavior in the context of her own life. I want her to speak to the sexuality of a 20 year-old American girl away from home, in a beautiful land, having a beautiful time. How much did the surreal aspect of having a roommate been murdered in the middle of all that play into her behavior? I want her to remind the world that it is normal for an American on study abroad to want to sleep with a cute Italian boy she met at a concert. I want her to call a witch hunt a witch hunt. And then I want her to go on and live a long and happy life.


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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Can't remember if this link has been posted here before or not... It seems that la_) has a growing army of admirers enchanted by her 'beauty' and uninhibited demeanor outside the crime scene and at the police station. What a deplorable question (the bolded sentence) to ask.

What's in the Amanda Knox memoir 'Waiting to Be Heard'?
By Mary Pols

Mary Pols wrote:
My biggest hope for Knox's book is that she speaks out against the sexual judgments passed upon her. I don't want her to apologize for being touchy feely or flirty or whatever it was that caused her to sit on Sollecito's lap or kiss him outside the crime scene; I want her to put that behavior in the context of her own life. I want her to speak to the sexuality of a 20 year-old American girl away from home, in a beautiful land, having a beautiful time. How much did the surreal aspect of having a roommate been murdered in the middle of all that play into her behavior? I want her to remind the world that it is normal for an American on study abroad to want to sleep with a cute Italian boy she met at a concert. I want her to call a witch hunt a witch hunt. And then I want her to go on and live a long and happy life.


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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Such a busy day. So have to keep this short..because I have to leave..again. Thank you so much everyone. I KNEW soIt was a lovely frienmething wonderful would happen to me today...and IT HAS.

I'm really sorry about your friend Michael..and your aunt, Ergon. I'm sending warm thoughts..and wishes for miracles.

My friend was pretty old..and had a most fantastic life. We were platonic friends..which was great...he belonged to the other team:) He travelled so much..and when we got together..it was just so interesting. As you say..Daisy..for me he will never have died.

I will respond later...Zorba..have a much better time.

Will respond to my pms later.

hugz-)

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Offline zorba


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Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks Cape.

Hey everyone, so what is Sollecito pretending to do, like acting, and really acting, like he was some poor guy and now he with his show of over the top normal behaviour, creates the opposite effect, it doesn't look normal at all, to be living it up at Burnin Man and saying look at me like a kid doing no hands on a bike, I'm not using anything.

Well, duh, it's a bit late for that you damned chump, in fact, chimp is better/accurate. Ah, oh, I see, not using acid. So what the fcuk are you trying to say there, look at me, no hands, everyone else may be doing it, but listen,
I'm Mr Squeaky Clean,
in the middle of a festival known for its colourfulness and it's LSD,
I'm here, no hands, and no LSD (who cares son)
see,
so I must have not murdered nobody... dash, slash, twice a slash, dash, colons,
look at me Computer Guy,
yes,
studying murder, I’m convincing am I... NOT, right.

Now I'm off, no hands, to Swiss, I call it Swiss, when I try to pretend to be so into the English speaking countries,
New York,
the middle of the fcuking desert in the baking heat after a murder... case,
and,
hi di ho,
hello campers,
get your breakfast,
we have sausages, beans, eggs, rolls, tea, coffee, wonderful life I am having as the non murderer, a fool said so right?
hi di hi,
hi di ho
I meant I'm off to Swiss in Switzerland, not too far, just over the border and near the mountains.
What will I do there? Yes, yodelling and milking cows.

What am I really up to?
Can you guess?
What's wrong with my Italy?
Are there no mountains?
Is it too hot?
But the north is cool enough a-plenty, lots of months of the year.
Do I intend to set up a bank?
Be near to the Dignitas euthanasia setup?
Is Switzerland really so neutral that it will refuse to deliver one of its next door neighbour's sons, wanted for murder no less?
Oh he's so respectable, he is a computer guy, or will he flee to South America like some war criminal after World War Two?
Well, money does buy you hiding places, in floors of trucks or cars, onto boats, then even planes, money does not really flow uphill nor make things go up ze Hill, Vil he learn ze German?
No, he will disappear he thinks, at least I think he thinks, to some South American safe haven, where they speak a lingo near to his own or his own, and the best way to do that is from the relative safety of some out of the way mountain location, while arrangements are finalized, if the worst comes to the worst... so does anyone really think a coward is suddenly going to be noble, dignified, truthful, law abiding and surrender to 25 years in prison?

Me thinks not, he is undoubtedly scared shitless, and so he should be too.
That guy, as far as I can say or see, never made a single step in the right direction after the 1st of November 2007, and before that he was already, it appears, stuck up shit creek; dependent, needy, complaining, elitist though having never achieved a damned thing in life himself, he felt entitled and aloft, way above mere mortals, for papa said and I said, then papa said then I said, then papa paid and I took it all again and again, and papa is greatly saddened, but no longer someone to look up to, everything he ever achieved, trashed by his very own hands, for one cannot do things then blame the actions taken on someone else, not even on innocent as a lamb sonny boy, and... that waterworks man was unable to take the truth and deal with it, instead... falling himself. To me, even if it is your family, if you actually know - as Michael elaborated on, necessarily so too - then all as I can think of is that you are just as bad... in fact WORSE than the main offender(s), just like Mr Jesus pointed out somewhere, which I liked. I will dig that tale up.

Dad I'm off ta burnin man
Dad: Burnin man?
Son: Yes pap, uomo bruciato
Dad: Ma che cazzo voi adesso, what the hell now, it sounds shit son, I hope you ain't going to be getting arrested no more for murder.
Son: Your fault dad, you hurt my ma, it's all your fault
Dad: Okay, yes, all my fault let me be a criminal now, I will pay, everything, hey listen son, when you write your fairy tales from hell, could you kind of leave me out of it, at least don't get me in trouble, ain't it enough already, or are you planning in me joining you in your jail career?
Son: Listen I have to go, the coke is wearing off and I need to score, where's Sfarty when ya need him!!!??? Oh Sfarty, you can come out now when you get done robbing that grandaddy and young and old women.

Disclaimer: Nobody in the above scenario is real, and that can be seen from many angles, even if they were, they still ain't really real. Any similarity shall rest purely upon coincidence, except for dad as he ain't dun shit, cannot wait ta gits ma hands on those credit cards and bank codes of his.
Translated from the Italian into American slang, etc.

Don't miss my next book;
Yodelling and Cow Milking Technologies while Searching for a Seagoing Boat in Swiss

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Last edited by zorba on Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Songs and tunes of the Giornatas, arias, sarabandas, pop, rock, other

Papa cured a Rollin Gall Stone

Papa cured a stone of gall
Wherever he laid his scalpel was his home
But when he died, all he left me was a stone, gall stone

I wanna thank you
Thank ya baby
How sweet it is to be paid by you

I ain't going say how it will be
but what I will say is I don't work for free
How sweet it is to be paid by you
Do be do be do be dooby

When I walked into that room of court
I just had a single thought
I don't care as long as my invoices are paid
I don't care if you are an old guy in trains getting laid
I don't care if it's right or wrong
Cos I ain't saying what I know is really going on
At the end acting is a lucrative career, even if my roles involve defending folk when they've dumped bodies down the end of a peer
How sweet it is to be paid by you

If it was a triumph hands thrown into the air
Still can't help thinking didn't see any brain anywhere

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Offline zorba


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Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

So, feeling better today.

Yesterday was awful, as I got home Thursday night, too tired to do the 2 assignments I had, too tired to eat, went to sleep, set the alarm for 4.30, forgot to change time zones, worked non-stop with the aid of coffee but couldn't get it all done, new client complaining, so that'll be the end of that, hadn't realised I'd agree to a ridiculous rate too, then the audio I transcribed, was terrible, her voice drove me to the land of Migrania, she selling her products, but what's so nutty, is that what she was selling, communication skills, to me seemed all about her selling her stuff, as the stuff she said was stuff anyone could realise or find out, and I detest advertising, cannot watch TV with adverts in between, I switch off. All a terrible way to return home, never do that again.

Now to see about getting back on track, I was too tired to read properly, thanks to anyone and everyone who wrote something to me.

What can I say that is on the ball, well, I think it has been great that certain journalists and law experts have now started to tell the real story, comment and write in the way that should have been the norm, but, better late than never.

Fancy trying to run Alan D down when you are someone who jumped on your lousy sister's bandwagon, I mean if anyone looked completely unconvincing, she did, what with her trying to threaten the police whilst being drunk herself, like a clear case of someone who thought she could comment, incorrectly too, on a case she apparently was unable to understand at all, yet vapidly sees herself as being above the law, drunken driving as she went. Who the hell employs a person like that?


I think a good book is going to be the one that lists the strange persons who jumped on the bandwagon and all thought they were infallible or and above the law, like Heavey.

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Offline Ava


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Posts: 943

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Perugia, lo sfogo di Lumumba "Io rovinato da Amanda Knox E lei ora se la gode negli Usa"
Il barista che finì in cella da innocente: "Nessuno mi ha chiesto scusa: né lei né gli inquirenti italiani"

Nino Materi - Sab, 06/04/2013 - 08:48
http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/interni/i ... 03973.html

"...
Lumumba has clear ideas: "Amanda is in the United States and will always stay there...". For her huge gains thanks to a book that tells her "story" which is covered by many tv-shows/-news where, more than Meredith, the victim seems to be you, Amanda. The cliché-proof audience is always the same: Amanda crying because the Italian courts continue to haunt her... ".
..."
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Perugia, lo sfogo di Lumumba "Io rovinato da Amanda Knox E lei ora se la gode negli Usa"
Il barista che finì in cella da innocente: "Nessuno mi ha chiesto scusa: né lei né gli inquirenti italiani"

Nino Materi - Sab, 06/04/2013 - 08:48
http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/interni/i ... 03973.html

"...
Lumumba has clear ideas: "Amanda is in the United States and will always stay there...". For her huge gains thanks to a book that tells her "story" which is covered by many tv-shows/-news where, more than Meredith, the victim seems to be you, Amanda. The cliché-proof audience is always the same: Amanda crying because the Italian courts continue to haunt her... ".
..."

____________________________________________________________________________________

[Square brackets including content therein added by the author of this post, not the author of the Italian article]

Here below, an unofficial translation of the article added by AVA.


Perugia, Lumumba says, "I was ruined by Amanda Knox and now she enjoys herself in the U.S."

The bartender who ended up in jail when he was an innocent man, "No one asked me to excuse her, neither she nor the Italian investigators."
In the end, the name Patrick Lumumba came from the mouth of Amanda.

Those present [in court] breathed a sigh of relief. In the room were lawyers, judges, policemen.

And to all Amanda's "confession" had seemed like a "liberation".
However, that dark-skinned young man had the physique to make him perfect for the role of the "guilty".
Better still [to have] a [stereotypical] "monster" even if [she is] a murderess, [this was done] by churning out hot, hot on the grill of the front pages of newspapers.
Newspapers in those days at the end of 2007 wafted the yellow embers of the fire [surrounding the] British student murdered in Perugia.

[The roles portrayed] The victim, Meredith Kercher, "friends" of hers: Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox, the fool of the group: Rudy Guede.
It lacked only the "figurine" most wanted: the bloodthirsty killer, preferably in colour. The identikit of Lumumba, the Congolese bartender who came to our country in search of fortune.
Amanda, the American of good family, had no doubts about the culprit: Lumumba.
The police arrested him and locked him away in prison for two weeks.
"I repeated that I had nothing to do with the crime, but no one believed me." He is still tormented six years after this nightmare.

I do not talk willingly to reporters. He limits it merely to vent: "No one has ever asked me in Italian ... excuse me."
Yet he really "had nothing to do with it", he is "innocent," as they say in the sports bar, "unconnected with the facts" as they say in the bar of the court.
"What saved me - remember - was certainly not the the investigators changing their minds, but the testimony of a client of my pub who testified that he was with me at the hour when Meredith was stabbed."
For that false accusation against him, Amanda was sentenced to 3 years for slander [in fact, for calunnia = obstruction of justice].

Meager satisfaction for Lumumba who, after his misadventure in court, definitively finished with Italy.
He moved to Poland where he found his peace of mind thanks to the love of his wife and children.
Some say they have now met Lumumba DJ-ing, who has opened a new pub in Perugia like the one he had in Perugia before he finished up behind bars.
He neither confirmed nor denied: "My life only affects me and my family." A "ghost", Lumumba - even where the judgment of the Supreme Court annulled the acquittal of Amanda - is the only one who manages to give body to it [his situation].

Silence. Oblivion. Broken only by the echo of some contemptuous phrase, returned today more relevant than ever [because she is and will remain forever guilty of accusing an innocent man of rape and murder]:

"Amanda is a great actress ... knowingly accused me of lying... a vendetta between me and her just because there was some disagreement..."
Amanda helped out from time to time in the pub Le Chic managed [and owned] by Mr Lumumba, but instead of working she spent all her time chatting [read, flirting] with [male] customers.

Lumumba is "permitted [has the right]" to express it, and she, Amanda, thought it was good to make him pay in the worst way. Accusing him of being a murderer. Fifteen days in jail, then the acquittal. "Even though I came out clean from and on each count - Lumumba declared to the Daily Mail - customers were no longer in my pub. I had to close the club, lay off staff. Without work and disliked by all. Forced to flee Italy."

Lumumba has followed, with astonishment, the alternation of the judicial fate of his slanderer: first sentenced to 26 years, and then acquitted, now again subjected to the [appeal] process.

Lumumba has clear ideas: "Amanda is in the United States and will remain there forever ... For her large earnings thanks to a book that tells its «story» and the many television hosts who, more than Meredith, portrayed Amanda as the victim.. The cliché-proof audience is always the same: Amanda crying because the Italian courts continue to persecute her... "

For Lumumba, it's nothing more than: "the crocodile tears of a fantastic actress!"

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Last edited by zorba on Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:03 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks, zorba, so much nicer than google trans :)
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Offline zorba


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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

My pleasure Ava, thanks for the link. Thought it was important to show what an important person in this says and how they put that in the Italian news.

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Offline louiehaha


Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:13 am

Posts: 348

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Ava wrote:
Perugia, lo sfogo di Lumumba "Io rovinato da Amanda Knox E lei ora se la gode negli Usa"
Il barista che finì in cella da innocente: "Nessuno mi ha chiesto scusa: né lei né gli inquirenti italiani"

Nino Materi - Sab, 06/04/2013 - 08:48
http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/interni/i ... 03973.html

"...
Lumumba has clear ideas: "Amanda is in the United States and will always stay there...". For her huge gains thanks to a book that tells her "story" which is covered by many tv-shows/-news where, more than Meredith, the victim seems to be you, Amanda. The cliché-proof audience is always the same: Amanda crying because the Italian courts continue to haunt her... ".
..."

____________________________________________________________________________________

[Square brackets including content therein added by the author of this post, not the author of rthe Italian article]

Here below, an unofficial translation of the article added by AVA.


Perugia, Lumumba's says, "I was ruined by Amanda Knox and now she enjoys herself in the U.S."

The bartender who ended up in jail when he was an innocent man, "No one asked me to excuse her, neither she nor the Italian investigators."
In the end, the name Patrick Lumumba came from the mouth of Amanda.

Those present [in court] breathed a sigh of relief. In the room were lawyers, judges, policemen.

And to all Amanda's "confession" had seemed like a "liberation".
However, that dark-skinned young man had the physique to make him perfect for the role of the "guilty".
Better still [to have] a [stereotypical] "monster" even if [she is] a murderess, [this was done] by churning out hot, hot on the grill of the front pages of newspapers.
Newspapers in those days at the end of 2007 wafted the yellow embers of the fire [surrounding the] British student murdered in Perugia.

[The roles portrayed] The victim, Meredith Kercher, "friends" of hers: Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox, the fool of the group: Rudy Guede.
It lacked only the "figurine" most wanted: the bloodthirsty killer, preferably in colour. The identikit of Lumumba, the Congolese bartender who came to our country in search of fortune.
Amanda, the American of good family, had no doubts about the culprit: Lumumba.
The police arrested him and locked in jail for two weeks.
"I repeated that I had nothing to do with the crime, but no one believed me," he is tormented six years after this nightmare.

I do not talk willingly to reporters. He limits it merely to vent: "No one has ever asked me in Italian ... excuse me."
Yet he really "had nothing to do with it", he is "innocent," as they say in the sports bar, "unconnected with the facts" as they say in the bar of the court.
"What saved me - remember - was certainly not the repentance of the investigators, but the testimony of a client of my pub who testified that he was with me at the hour when Meredith was stabbed."
For that false accusation against him, Amanda was sentenced to 3 years for slander [in fact, for calunnia = obstruction of justice].

Meager satisfaction for Lumumba who, after his misadventure in court, definitively finished with Italy.
He moved to Poland where he found his peace of mind thanks to the love of his wife and children.
Some say they have now met Lumumba DJ-ing, who has opened a new pub in Perugia like the one he had in Perugia before he finished up behind bars.
He neither confirmed nor denied: "My life only affects me and my family." A "ghost", Lumumba, even where the judgment of the Supreme Court annulled the acquittal of Amanda, he is the only one who manages to give body to it [his situation].

Silence. Oblivion. Broken only by the echo of some contemptuous phrase, returned today more relevant than ever: "Amanda is a great actress ... knowingly accused me of lying ... a vendetta between me and her just because there was some disagreement ... ".
Amanda helped out from time to time in the pub Le Chic managed by Lumumba, but instead of working she spent all her time chatting [read, flirting] with [male] customers.

Lumumba is "permitted [has the right]" to express it, and she, Amanda, thought it was good to make him pay in the worst way. Accusing him of being a murderer. Fifteen days in jail, then the acquittal. "Even though I came out clean from each count - Lumumba declared to the Daily Mail - customers were no longer in my pub. I had to close the club, lay off staff. Without work and disliked by all. Forced to flee Italy."

Lumumba has followed, with astonishment, the alternation of the judicial fate of his slanderer: first sentenced to 26 years, and then acquitted, now again subjected to the [appeal] process.

Lumumba has clear ideas: "Amanda is in the United States and will remain there forever ... For her large earnings thanks to a book that tells its «story» and the many television hosts who, more than Meredith, portrayed Amanda as the victim.. The cliché-proof audience is always the same: Amanda crying because the Italian courts continue to persecute her... "

For Lumumba, it's nothing more than: "the crocodile tears of a fantastic actress!"


Thank-you for the translation, Zorba!
Lumumba's words are a powerful indictment of Knox.

While there's more than one way to get from point A (the ever-suffering innocent) to point B (the cold indifferent sex murderess), understanding Knox's callous, calculating accusation of Lumumba is the shortest distance between the two imo.
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Offline zorba


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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi Lou,

yes those words are indeed the best way,
as he doesn't play games and is to the point,
and puts it right there how the dynamics worked,
namely,
she worked for him on a casual basis but he was not happy with her contribution and was getting rid of her, for that she used him,
she painted him black in every way/sense, then when you find out later, hey, a guy, another guy was involved, and he IS black too, her naming him seems a very odd coincidence,
so weird in fact that it's like she couldn't find her contact lenses, come on,
she grabbed whatever she could when lost for a way out at the police station,
they knew and she knew they already knew,
it is not hard when you are guilty and sat there trying to make ends meet up which just do not meet up, especially when you have a guy sat next door revealing ends that contradict your own.

Classic what she did, she had to get them off her back as she was unable to come up with anything to convince them.

So as they spoke they watched her actions, her facial expressions, and they watched her mind ticking over in response to questions, taking far too long to reply, it is not hard for trained persons to pick up on it, after all, unless it was years ago, you just say what happened, where you were and you do not have to keep carefully selecting what you say. After she kept saying, I don't remember, and her chum next door did likewise, then they knew they were lying.

But meantime, Knox panicking, gave them, what they thought was true, they had to at least assume it might be true, she fingered Lumumba. If the police had ignored him after that and it turned out to be true, then they'd have been in trouble, after all, a killer on the loose could kill again, therefore they HAD to pull him in.
Meantime, they also held Knox and her chum Sollecito .
Her plot worked partially, not enough to get her let out, but to divert the pressure from her onto Lumumba.

Then the family got involved and started dictating to her what she ought to say.
They gave her shoddy advice, they made things worse.
If they had wanted to make the accusations work then they would have needed to demand that she with her lawyers made formal complaints against officers, for the so-called hitting, but they didn't, why didn't they? Because it NEVER happened.

The biggest insult to anyone's intellect though, came from Sollecito, where 5 years later, he thinks people are going to believe his new and false accusations; in America they probably told him to say that the police hit him too, and he like a blithering idiot, did just that, yet, he went even further, slagging off absolutely everyone, in fact slagging off the hand that feeds, namely his dad's hand, his own lawyers, what was dad to say, yes it is true the lawyers were approached by the prosecution but we like a bunch of upstanding, heroic citizens, refused any deals.

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Last edited by zorba on Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Ergon

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Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
My pleasure Ava, thanks for the link. Thought it was important to show what an important person in this says and how they put that in the Italian news.


My thanks, too, zorba. If there was one thing that turned me against Amanda Knox, it was the false accusation and destruction of an innocent man. All the other pieces of evidence are arguable, even if falsely so.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Chami, Malvern,

if you can improve any of my translation please add/correct, say so.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks Ergon,

When I get myself fed and washed and shopped, etc, going to read your posts properly, lately my time was very chaotic, it was a grand contribution from you going there you know, in Milano I dabbled with the idea of visiting Perugia but as I was in a bad way thought it would depress me, so will go some other time.

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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Has Amanda even acknowleged that her boss Lumumba was less than pleased with her work at at Le Chic? If so then she has a pattern of hiding the state of her relationships. Patrik clearly thinks there is an element of contempt or revenge because he dared to have words with her.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

malvern wrote:
Has Amanda even acknowleged that her boss Lumumba was less than pleased with her work at at Le Chic? If so then she has a pattern of hiding the state of her relationships. Patrik clearly thinks there is an element of contempt or revenge because he dared to have words with her.


Good point, no, never admitted to anything anyone else said, ever.

And the brazen nature of offering some fake words, and then indirectly, is soooooooooooooooo cheap, this bit when Patrick was released: I like Patrick

Sure.

Damn, imagine if she hates you then.
Well, actually, we don't have to imagine what happens if she hates someone, as she has shown what that, in her case, leads to, if the person Patrick speaks of, had not spoken, Knox to this day would not have changed what she said, she would apparently have been quite happy to watch Patrick rot in prison as a result of her words.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Thanks Ergon,

When I get myself fed and washed and shopped, etc, going to read your posts properly, lately my time was very chaotic, it was a grand contribution from you going there you know, in Milano I dabbled with the idea of visiting Perugia but as I was in a bad way thought it would depress me, so will go some other time.


That's completely understandable, zorba. Sorry your stay in Milano didn't work out. There some posts from Italy towards the end of the old thread you might have missed as well, but I summarized them all in the new thread.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi Zorba, Your translation looks fine to me. My Italian is limited to a course taken 30 years ago in Italy. I was once a student like Meredith or Amanda. Like Amanda, when immersed understanding comes quickly even after a few weeks. That's why I never bought the story she didn't understand enough Italian when the PP asked if Meredith's door was ever locked.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:30 pm   Post subject: PERUGIA 2013   

Hi, all. Here are the first batch of photos and impressions taken the day I arrived in Perugia. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=433 I really think that visiting Perugia enabled me to get a better picture of the case. Funny how the Massei Court and PM Mignini visited the crime scene, but Hellmann and Zanetti did not? There's a lot more to come, once I assemble the photos and get some time to write them up.

It was amazing to walk all around Perugia the week I was there, and I have many pictures and impressions. But the first pictures, from the basketball court, blew me away. I believed what Antonio saw that night.

My one regret was that I was unable to locate his grave. I wanted to place some flowers there as a gesture from all of us, but never got a call back from the editor at Il Giornale, and things got a little intense. Still, I sat on his park benches, and meditated on and prayed for peace for Antonio Curatolo, for speaking up and telling the truth.


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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

For those following Italian politics I recommend Beppe Grillo's blog http://www.beppegrillo.it/en/2013/04/no ... e_gov.html
"nearly all the newspapers have reported the news that the Attorney General of the Supreme Court, Gianfranco Ciani has just initiated disciplinary action against (anti-mafia) Di Matteo - the very judge who has received Cosa Nostra’s death threat - and the Minister of Justice Paola Severino has just commended the Attorney General for his action, for other reasons that are connected to the bogging down of the trial relating to “the State-mafia negotiations”
DARIO: Anyway what’s significant is the speed at which they are reacting against the people who have come to the attention of the mafia. It’s almost got the flavour of a pre-emptive condolence card. If the disaster were to happen, they would all get by with a lovely floral wreath on their coffin, provided by the State. Amen"
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:

The biggest insult to anyone's intellect though, came from Sollecito, where 5 years later, he thinks people are going to believe his new and false accusations; in America they probably told him to say that the police hit him too, and he like a blithering idiot, did just that, yet, he went even further, slagging off absolutely everyone, in fact slagging off the hand that feeds, namely his dad's hand, his own lawyers, what was dad to say, yes it is true the lawyers were approached by the prosecution but we like a bunch of upstanding, heroic citizens, refused any deals.


Z,
Poor Sollecito. Slapped for standing by his whore and all.
Forced to strip and remove -gasp- his underpants as if he were a common murderer being booked for murder.


Quote:
One of my interrogators opened the door noisily at one point, walked over, and slapped me. “Your father is a fine upstanding person,” he said. “He doesn’t even deserve a son like you, someone who would stand by a whore like Amanda.” People kept coming and going. Sometimes I was left alone. Sometimes I was shouted at. I was taken to the medical section of the Questura and told to strip. “Take off everything,” I was told, “even your underpants.”

Sollecito, Raffaele; Gumbel, Andrew (2012-09-18). Honor Bound (Kindle Locations 988-989). Simon & Schuster, Inc.. Kindle Edition.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

After the provisional acquittal, thinking it was over, Knox's inner circle all began crowing about their own contributions – Marriott, Heavey, Bremner, Moore, Hampikean, etc.

I hadn’t realized that Ted Simon had also. In this article, he crows how he found Bruce Budowle, the controversial and obscure University of Texas LCN detractor heavily referenced (21 times) in the C&V report.

Quote:
In Knox's appeal, Simon said, he focused on the DNA used to convict her, and he found Bruce Budowle of the University of North Texas Health Science Center, the FBI's former top geneticist and an authority on DNA contamination and the hazards of interpreting low-content DNA samples.

Budowle's research provided a base for Knox's Italian DNA experts to challenge the original DNA work used by the Italian prosecutor.

http://articles.philly.com/2011-10-13/n ... ano-ghirga
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

malvern wrote:
Has Amanda even acknowleged that her boss Lumumba was less than pleased with her work at at Le Chic? If so then she has a pattern of hiding the state of her relationships. Patrik clearly thinks there is an element of contempt or revenge because he dared to have words with her.


Oh, she's waiting to be heard, don cha know!
I'm waiting to hear she's cut the court ordered check.
It was also ordered she paid the tax on the award.
Hence, non-compliance might mean tax-evasion issues down the road for her.

But worse for her is her obvious lack of a moral position, which I hope is exploited by Diane Sawyer.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
zorba wrote:
Thanks Ergon,

When I get myself fed and washed and shopped, etc, going to read your posts properly, lately my time was very chaotic, it was a grand contribution from you going there you know, in Milano I dabbled with the idea of visiting Perugia but as I was in a bad way thought it would depress me, so will go some other time.


That's completely understandable, zorba. Sorry your stay in Milano didn't work out. There some posts from Italy towards the end of the old thread you might have missed as well, but I summarized them all in the new thread.



Thanks, it's amazing how just a few days away seems like yonks, and when you do not have a good time away, how it wears you out, I'm only just now about to eat a meal, the first since Thursday, and sort out the paperwork. Where I live they drive people to suicide with it, I'm serious, once (or more but this is an example) a young woman, well-educated, lost her job, but having run into some problems, well, they found her, she committed suicide, yes found her surrounded by all the letters the state and all of the institutions, companies, etc, sends, mostly bills and when you fail to pay on time, it is awful, they up the amounts, she could not deal with it, many of the letters were unopened, she was living in fear. Sad.

Am off to bed soon and going to try to get rested. Will back track when Im'up to it, to see what your posts read together.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

malvern wrote:
Hi Zorba, Your translation looks fine to me. My Italian is limited to a course taken 30 years ago in Italy. I was once a student like Meredith or Amanda. Like Amanda, when immersed understanding comes quickly even after a few weeks. That's why I never bought the story she didn't understand enough Italian when the PP asked if Meredith's door was ever locked.



Oh good.

Was under the impression that you are Italian.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
zorba wrote:

The biggest insult to anyone's intellect though, came from Sollecito, where 5 years later, he thinks people are going to believe his new and false accusations; in America they probably told him to say that the police hit him too, and he like a blithering idiot, did just that, yet, he went even further, slagging off absolutely everyone, in fact slagging off the hand that feeds, namely his dad's hand, his own lawyers, what was dad to say, yes it is true the lawyers were approached by the prosecution but we like a bunch of upstanding, heroic citizens, refused any deals.


Z,
Poor Sollecito. Slapped for standing by his whore and all.
Forced to strip and remove -gasp- his underpants as if he were a common murderer being booked for murder.


Quote:
One of my interrogators opened the door noisily at one point, walked over, and slapped me. “Your father is a fine upstanding person,” he said. “He doesn’t even deserve a son like you, someone who would stand by a whore like Amanda.” People kept coming and going. Sometimes I was left alone. Sometimes I was shouted at. I was taken to the medical section of the Questura and told to strip. “Take off everything,” I was told, “even your underpants.”

Sollecito, Raffaele; Gumbel, Andrew (2012-09-18). Honor Bound (Kindle Locations 988-989). Simon & Schuster, Inc.. Kindle Edition.



Which kinds of cheap books is he reading or what dumb movies has he been seeing?
After all, I mean, what world is he in?

You go to an airport, if they think anything is up, they'll do more than strip search you and it does not matter WHO you are, they'll have those gloves on and will be poking and sticking their hand up your backside, and when they are done, and find nothing, you do not get to be in the newspaper or sue them.


Slammed the door!!!! Huh?

The poor boy, the poor child, the poor grown up man, he is fcuking stupid.

Papa, they slammed the door.
Papa: ding ding, ding ding, ciao, pronto, is that you lawyer? My son, the door, it was slammed, sue themmmmmmmmmmmm, he is damaged. Also made him strip off, sueeeeeeeeeee them, sue them now... perche no, why not?
Lawyer who had already walked out: I've had quite enough of your son, give him a slap up side his thick head

Pap: I sueeeeeee you, he wants to be a policeman

Lawyer: Give him a kick up his dumb ass and cut him off, or you'll wind up at the free soup kitchen

Pap: You are fired again

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hey the Knox was ordered to pay the court costs, they cannot be cheap.
I'm guessing she might pay nothing as they still want to ask the President to talk to the courts, he must or they won't like black people no more,
so there.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
I see that Mr. Heavey is still scheduling appearances on "The Pathology of Wrongful Convictions."
East King County Bar Association.

http://www.ekcba.org/


I see that the former Judge also gave a presentation for the CLE on March 21st on the same topic.

http://lawreviewcle.com/seminars/amanda-knox.html

I wonder if he has altered any of his speaking points since the SC ruling?


ETA: The second presentation
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I will get to the nitty gritty of the case..but..I am home now..and just wanted to make some responses. Jeeze..very bad english, I'm thinking.

Michael..I feel so worried and sad for your * our friend *. I don't ask who..I just know that everything will be alright. He/she walks in light. It's so worrying, though. And..of course..it goes to your loving nature to worry and care. I'm thinking VERY supportive thoughts.

Ergon..I do hope your Aunt is going to be well. I know you..of all people..understand life ..and the passing of such.

It's very hard on the people left behind. For me..I hope to be remembered in a good way. Today was the 1st year Birthday Party of my grandson. Poor little guy. He's stuck on the B word. Bud..( the neighbour's dog..that he adores..Birds, ball, etc..I'm just hoping for a different consonant :)

I did get a fabulous new client. I'm really chuffed but I actually LOVE what I do. she had to choose between 3 of us..( I think my accent won the day ) :) So..it's me. The recession is still about..so this is a really marvellous job.

Which brings me to my pal, Jackie..and ( Daisy) who may be part of the Vegas Vamp.........

I have a feeling we would have the BEST time. ( As long as Daisy and I can loll by the pool, while Jackie runs a few miles every day :)

Zorba..thank you so much for the post about Patrick. I'm sure he will be back on his feet...but..how outraged he must feel..knowing how he was basically crucified by Knox.

Zorba..you have had such a bad time lately. My Mum says troubles come in threes. So, I hope that's done and over with.

Take care of you, Hon.

And now..after a really busy and tiring few days...I send you all kisses. I got some from my grandkids today..and there is NOTHING to explain the sheer joy. The love that is given. I give to all of you.

Ahh..tomorrow I get to sleep in. :) And then..back to our endeavours. For Justice for Meredith. Because i always think about the Kerchers. Even today...I had a moment to wonder how they felt..never holding Meredith's children. And..I felt very sad.

Take care all......... hugz-)

Oh..I'm going to run the remark of Ava's by Ergon. If he OK's it..I will post it on Board. I loved it...But then..she will always be my fave actress.......just freakin would love to have known her........... angel-)

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi, all. I woke up cranky this morning. Over coffee I thought about the events of these past few days and realized the reasons. It's a given that the sad news that Michael posted about an ill PMF poster is high on the list. I feel that helpless feeling one gets when they want everything good for someone and are powerless to make it happen. God Bless and good thoughts always.

Added to it, computer glitches abound. Nuff said on what that issue does to my psyche. Blech.

Which brings me to a major source of frustration: Extradition.

I'm a layperson, and I will readily admit I don't begin to understand all of the implications. Ergon has wisely stated that it is too early in the current proceedings to even have the debate. But, reading hundreds of comments over the past few days has shown me that "Extradition" is the buzzword of the day. The conversations continue, the debate is raging. People are becoming interested again, and there are new posters and new readers everywhere. But...

What about the ultimate reason for this debate? These conversations? Meredith. Meredith Kercher.
If I had the skillset, I would post her picture. And pictures of her devastated, loving family who have patiently sought justice for their murdered daughter these last 6 years.

Layer upon layer of media hype and spin and special interest has found its way to cover and twist and spin the fact that a beautiful, intelligent, giving young woman lost her life in the most horrific of ways in Perugia in November, 2007.

While "extradition" may sell papers and books and pique your interest, remember, always the reason.

Meredith Kercher. Justice for Meredith Kercher. Speak of her, write about her. Say her name.

RIP Meredith Kercher.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
I will get to the nitty gritty of the case..but..I am home now..and just wanted to make some responses. Jeeze..very bad english, I'm thinking.

Michael..I feel so worried and sad for your * our friend *. I don't ask who..I just know that everything will be alright. He/she walks in light. It's so worrying, though. And..of course..it goes to your loving nature to worry and care. I'm thinking VERY supportive thoughts.

Ergon..I do hope your Aunt is going to be well. I know you..of all people..understand life ..and the passing of such.

It's very hard on the people left behind. For me..I hope to be remembered in a good way. Today was the 1st year Birthday Party of my grandson. Poor little guy. He's stuck on the B word. Bud..( the neighbour's dog..that he adores..Birds, ball, etc..I'm just hoping for a different consonant :)

I did get a fabulous new client. I'm really chuffed but I actually LOVE what I do. she had to choose between 3 of us..( I think my accent won the day ) :) So..it's me. The recession is still about..so this is a really marvellous job.

Which brings me to my pal, Jackie..and ( Daisy) who may be part of the Vegas Vamp.........

I have a feeling we would have the BEST time. ( As long as Daisy and I can loll by the pool, while Jackie runs a few miles every day :)

Zorba..thank you so much for the post about Patrick. I'm sure he will be back on his feet...but..how outraged he must feel..knowing how he was basically crucified by Knox.

Zorba..you have had such a bad time lately. My Mum says troubles come in threes. So, I hope that's done and over with.

Take care of you, Hon.

And now..after a really busy and tiring few days...I send you all kisses. I got some from my grandkids today..and there is NOTHING to explain the sheer joy. The love that is given. I give to all of you.

Ahh..tomorrow I get to sleep in. :) And then..back to our endeavours. For Justice for Meredith. Because i always think about the Kerchers. Even today...I had a moment to wonder how they felt..never holding Meredith's children. And..I felt very sad.

Take care all......... hugz-)

Oh..I'm going to run the remark of Ava's by Ergon. If he OK's it..I will post it on Board. I loved it...But then..she will always be my fave actress.......just freakin would love to have known her........... angel-)


Post. Please. We need 8.2 kilos of laughs ;)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thank you Cape, I'm recovering, but have a workload I should have passed on.

Have to take break now as this woman's voice is doing my brain in (on video I'm transcribing). Ordinarily I'd never listen to such indoctrinating business talk, oin video but I took a job on and have to keep playing it back stopping and starting and it is far worse than just listening.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Hi, all. I woke up cranky this morning. Over coffee I thought about the events of these past few days and realized the reasons. It's a given that the sad news that Michael posted about an ill PMF poster is high on the list. I feel that helpless feeling one gets when they want everything good for someone and are powerless to make it happen. God Bless and good thoughts always.

Added to it, computer glitches abound. Nuff said on what that issue does to my psyche. Blech.

Which brings me to a major source of frustration: Extradition.

I'm a layperson, and I will readily admit I don't begin to understand all of the implications. Ergon has wisely stated that it is too early in the current proceedings to even have the debate. But, reading hundreds of comments over the past few days has shown me that "Extradition" is the buzzword of the day. The conversations continue, the debate is raging. People are becoming interested again, and there are new posters and new readers everywhere. But...

What about the ultimate reason for this debate? These conversations? Meredith. Meredith Kercher.
If I had the skillset, I would post her picture. And pictures of her devastated, loving family who have patiently sought justice for their murdered daughter these last 6 years.

Layer upon layer of media hype and spin and special interest has found its way to cover and twist and spin the fact that a beautiful, intelligent, giving young woman lost her life in the most horrific of ways in Perugia in November, 2007..


While "extradition" may sell papers and books and pique your interest, remember, always the reason.

Meredith Kercher. Justice for Meredith Kercher. Speak of her, write about her. Say her name.



RIP Meredith Kercher...



With the computer naps, you'll need to dare to touch stuff, it's the only way to get handy, that's how I did it, you cannot break it, unless you take a 20 pound mallet to it, and even then the hard disk will probably be okay.
Still, all that messing about can drive you up the wall.

Extradition is though the only way to make this case right short of bringing Meredith back to life and that is not going to happen, justice though does put a lot right and extradition must be carried out.

All as Knox's family has done is extend the misery she will have to face.

Imagine the fear if you are wanted but you travel to countries where you think they will not extradite you, which is a limited number to start with once you are wanted that way, but then you fly to South America only to have to land in some country ( that does extradite you, arresting you upon arrival) because of a storm or suchlike, I mean, she ain't going nowhere that way. Still, the way I see it, she IS going to be extradited when the time comes.

Will they pay the experts off again to say whatever they want them to say as opposed to being/offering an impartial opinion?

They might but how are they going to get it past the Supreme Court, it will not wash.

Hey, I don't see the Seattle Terrorists sticking their stupid fingers up at thin air any more.

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Last edited by zorba on Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi, Zorba. I know on an intellectual level that you are correct about extradition. (I told you I was cranky).
But, on an emotional level, I've been reading far too many commentaries slanted toward "She won't go back. She's crazy if she ever returns. We (the USA) won't send her back", and it sickens me to read these comments. Staying out of jail on a technicality is not a win. It sickens me to think that some believe refusal to extradite is an end-point for justice.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Hi, Zorba. I know on an intellectual level that you are correct about extradition. (I told you I was cranky).
But, on an emotional level, I've been reading far too many commentaries slanted toward "She won't go back. She's crazy if she ever returns. We (the USA) won't send her back", and it sickens me to read these comments. Staying out of jail on a technicality is not a win. It sickens me to think that some believe refusal to extradite is an end-point for justice.



Yes but I think most of those comments are by people who understand nothing about law, not at home and certainly not international law, I also do not think they understand this case, as rthey have attitudes that are far too simple-minded, and aggressive, maybe never did a single thing, maybe not ever worked, not a single thing done for their country, yet act like they care some kind of patriots but if you do not even underatand what such words mean, you can hardly be that properly, you are not patriotic, you are idioticç ignorant.

Anyway, I must now file my Reuters report on Sollecito who is head of police in Switzerland, he thinks.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

And at that time, it will not be Guede telling the strange stories, yeah once Solopsycho has been in jail a couple of years waiting for his partner to return to Italy it'll be him telling strange stories, after all he has already told enough.
That is definitely how it will be, like this: if she does not return, and he gets placed back in prison, really, he is definitely going to change his tune even if it gains him no favours, he will do it because the idea of her enjoying cocktails and him locked in there unable to show off his Lacroix shirts his dad buys him would destroy him, so he'll tell on her.

We'll see who is a hero then, and who has all this so-called honor.

Papa, she is there and I'm here, 25 minus 4 will be 21, how old am I now, 28. 28 plus 21 makes 49 pa, 49, I was only helping, I shouldn't have cut that bra off and contaminated a murder scene papa but if I am in this it is all her fault, she had no grip on reality, I lied for her, and she lived only for pleasure, I will need lots of cannabis in jail papa. Papa, what if the supreme court decides that we undermined the criminal justice so much that our sentences should be changed to the full life term, with no reductions?

I wonder he whether he is still updating his Facebook on a daily basis like some gormless village idiot?

Ah, New York, London, then, hey wait, I'm guilty again, so I reckon his touring days are over.

That bastard has got such a nerve, of all the places to go to, he went to London, that very act shows what a total monster that creep is, he did not need to go there, it was an exercise in his mind(s), one to show that he is infallible and can do what he likes.
After what they did to all black people, what with Patrick, he wouldn't survive five minutes there.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi, Zorba. I don't know about Facebook because I don't have an account, but I have noticed that he did update his webpage: http://www.raffaelesollecito.org/en/

Funny thing, you cannot see headers for additional blogs and information on the English page. If you click on Italian,
there are additional headers such as The Beginning and In Jail, etc. AFAIK, these are new. Or else I just haven't paid any attention. Or both.
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Offline louiehaha


Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:13 am

Posts: 348

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
I see that Mr. Heavey is still scheduling appearances on "The Pathology of Wrongful Convictions."
East King County Bar Association.

http://www.ekcba.org/


I see that the former Judge also gave a presentation for the CLE on March 21st on the same topic.

http://lawreviewcle.com/seminars/amanda-knox.html

I wonder if he has altered any of his speaking points since the SC ruling?


ETA: The second presentation


Wow Napia, so far four states have granted CLE credit to have the PR advocacy campaign of a murder suspect in a foreign court laid out for their members, by a disgraced judge no less. This is astonishing.
I guess there is a market for slackers who need a quick, easy, cheap 1.5 hours CLE that doesn't require personal attendance but this is ridiculous.

Too bad they don't appear to have deep pockets.
Quote:
Lawreview Cle, LLC in Port Charlotte, FL is a private company categorized under Criminal Law. Our records show it was established in 2010 and incorporated in Florida. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of $180,000 and employs a staff of approximately 3.
http://www.manta.com/c/mr4b6l9/lawreview-cle-llc
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yes, louie, I was amazed by the news that credit would be given for sitting through a 'special pleading' course.

Apparently Heavey had help brushing up on his Rotary speech last year. I found this link to a public speaking course that the former judge took. He is considered a success story. This page has not been updated though.

http://www.leonovsky.com/speech-coachin ... ikeheavey/
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Offline jhansigirl


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jackie wrote:
louiehaha wrote:
A BIZARRE rant attacking [Thumb] Dershowitz by Doug Bremner
[/Thumb]Alan
Quote:
Alam Dershowitz- Are You Credentialed?
By Doug Bremner On April 4, 2013 · Leave a Comment

I really have to wonder about the lawyer Alam Dershowitz, who gets quoted frequently on the news, about his legal credentials. He made the claim in the Amanda Knox case that she “admitted she was at the crime scene” and that her DNA was on the murder weapon, knife. Well, Alan, I am not going to even spend any time on the DNA issue, since if you had spent any time researching it, you wouldn’t have made such a statement.

You also claimed that she had been found “guilty” in an Italian court of law. Well, Mr. legal-eagle, according to Italian law, which you obviously know nothing about, it takes two courts of law to find someone guilty. For her, in the second court of law, she was exonerated, which means that she was never found guilty. The high court (Cassazione) asked it to be sent back to the lower courts. That is not a guilty verdict, just a request for a re-review.

Before you go firing off your mouth about this case, Alan, you should aquaint yourself with the specifics of the law. Anyone hiring you as a counselor would expect that much from you. But maybe years of seeking media attention have tainted you in you search for the truth.

http://www.beforeyoutakethatpill.com/in ... dentialed/



Can you feel the rage?
"For her, in the second court of law, she was exonerated, which means that she was never found guilty." Where did he get that piece of 'legal brilliance', a PR release?



Questioning Professor D.'s credentials?!

Are the FOA trying to look stupid?!

How do you beat graduating first in your class at what is widely regarded as the World's greatest law school (Yale)?!

How do you beat making full professor at Harvard Law School before the age of 30?!

How do you 'one up' a World Famous appellate criminal lawyer whose work has even been featured in an Academy Award winning film?!

How many papers on transnational law has Doug publisheAt this point, how would a person of reasonable intelligence conclude that the "advocacy" of the FOA is anything more than a full-on SMEAR campaign with no regard for the truth?


Yes but who is Alam Dershowitz? sh-))

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Last edited by jhansigirl on Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline capealadin


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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:58 am

Posts: 4089

Highscores: 11

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

jhansigirl wrote:
Jackie wrote:
louiehaha wrote:
A BIZARRE rant attacking [Thumb] Dershowitz by Doug Bremner
[/Thumb]Alan
Quote:
Alam Dershowitz- Are You Credentialed?
By Doug Bremner On April 4, 2013 · Leave a Comment

I really have to wonder about the lawyer Alam Dershowitz, who gets quoted frequently on the news, about his legal credentials. He made the claim in the Amanda Knox case that she “admitted she was at the crime scene” and that her DNA was on the murder weapon, knife. Well, Alan, I am not going to even spend any time on the DNA issue, since if you had spent any time researching it, you wouldn’t have made such a statement.

You also claimed that she had been found “guilty” in an Italian court of law. Well, Mr. legal-eagle, according to Italian law, which you obviously know nothing about, it takes two courts of law to find someone guilty. For her, in the second court of law, she was exonerated, which means that she was never found guilty. The high court (Cassazione) asked it to be sent back to the lower courts. That is not a guilty verdict, just a request for a re-review.

Before you go firing off your mouth about this case, Alan, you should aquaint yourself with the specifics of the law. Anyone hiring you as a counselor would expect that much from you. But maybe years of seeking media attention have tainted you in you search for the truth.

http://www.beforeyoutakethatpill.com/in ... dentialed/



Can you feel the rage?
"For her, in the second court of law, she was exonerated, which means that she was never found guilty." Where did he get that piece of 'legal brilliance', a PR release?



Questioning Professor D.'s credentials?!

Are the FOA trying to look stupid?!

How do you beat graduating first in your class at what is widely regarded as the World's greatest law school (Yale)?!

How do you beat making full professor at Harvard Law School before the age of 30?!

How do you 'one up' a World Famous appellate criminal lawyer whose work has even been featured in an Academy Award winning film?!

How many papers on transnational law has Doug publisheAt this point, how would a person of reasonable intelligence conclude that the "advocacy" of the FOA is anything more than a full-on SMEAR campaign with no regard for the truth?


Yes but who is Alum Dershowitz? sh-))


Alan Dershowitz really made a name for himself with the Claus van Bulow case. But Jackie can fill you in better than I can.

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Offline capealadin


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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:58 am

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Highscores: 11

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Right. So my little snippet about Ava.

Remember, this was in 1952. :shock: Ava was in London. She was now famous...and her lover Frank Sinatra's star was most definitely on the wane.

There's a press conference..with reporters from all over the World. A reporter asks Ava * Is Frank going to be joining you ? His career is over..What do you see in this guy? He's just a hundred-and nineteen pound-loser*.

And Ava says..very demurely..just very cool, with the most ladylike diction, * well, I'll tell you-nineteen pounds is cock. *

angel-) :)

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Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Posts: 615

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Hey Naps..the youngest turned One year old today. Big party Saturday.

I really am the luckiest Mom/Nana in the World. Of course..we all feel that.

Sending out a wish tonight. Give all your loved ones a kiss and a hug. o-(( k-((

And love and kisses to all of you ...for Meredith and her Family. Because we keep the faith..and far from hate..we are for justice...and her voice. We do not forget...G-d knows..i can't believe this is my 4th year in. I do sometimes wonder..why does this case keep me drawn in?

Meredith's smile? The needlessness of it all? The assumption just because the killer looks innocent? A PR effort to find the guilty without blame?

No and to the hell..NO. I'm staying. Because of The Machine..because of a post done by MISREPRESENTED. ( really good)

Because of Michael. And because of so many of you here. And at .ORG. Yeah..they booted me..But..I so appreciate the members here and there.

Things are looking good, my friends. Ergon...taking the trouble to go to Rome..and giving us the nitty gritty. Wonderful photos.

Thanks also to Tamale. Because..it cannot be discounted. A person who..although believing in innocence..comes here..with respect..really alone..and is prepared to have an open mind.

And..I have to say...unlike on other sites..everyone here has been so courteous.

I have long wanted to say THANK YOU to all of you. Because..you have put up with me..sometimes * spicy* sometimes really stupid with the techy stuff..and G-d knows..too many emoticons.

Special kisses to Jackie..Naps..Daisy..dg..G..Flowers..Some alibi..Z..Nell..Ava..Big E..BARD..

And Michael..Especially Michael. From the beginning..when I was a newbie..Michael always gave me his time and respect. i don't forget.

Why this post? Someone I knew..died recently. I'm very sad..but take comfort that I was there..and he knew that I loved him.

Today..some of us watched videos. And..I just think it's SO important to let loved ones know we love them.

This may seem it has nothing to do with this case. But..to me it does.. We are support..we are a voice.

r-(( r-(( r-((


That is just so darn sweet...but, I am relieved to say I have stumbled aross the ONE piece of info that has turned the tide. I suppose I am not alone in that....wheels are coming off the damn bus.
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Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Posts: 615

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

There is much suffering in the world right now (and always)...I am sending soft violet waves of comfort to all of you...as you did for me when I needed it. Love, life and loss. Sadness we all share in one way or another.

I want to thank all the liars who compelled me to tell the truth and to find the truth. I would like to thank all those who gave me room to come to my own conclusions, free from criticism and insult.

Thanks Maundy Gregory and Mach (oh yeah). Ergon, so many thanks. Thank you Meredith....for telling the truth.



Best wishes, Bettina/Tamale
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Offline zorba


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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Right. So my little snippet about Ava.

Remember, this was in 1952. :shock: Ava was in London. She was now famous...and her lover Frank Sinatra's star was most definitely on the wane.

There's a press conference..with reporters from all over the World. A reporter asks Ava * Is Frank going to be joining you ? His career is over..What do you see in this guy? He's just a hundred-and nineteen pound-loser*.

And Ava says..very demurely..just very cool, with the most ladylike diction, * well, I'll tell you-nineteen pounds is cock. *

angel-) :)


ha ha, my favourite at the momet is Gilbert Goddfried, wonder what people, in general, think of him in the States, ahahaha, he'd gift wrap a leper and mail it to his aunt Jane

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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
jhansigirl wrote:
Jackie wrote:
louiehaha wrote:
A BIZARRE rant attacking [Thumb] Dershowitz by Doug Bremner
[/Thumb]Alan
Quote:
Alam Dershowitz- Are You Credentialed?
By Doug Bremner On April 4, 2013 · Leave a Comment

I really have to wonder about the lawyer Alam Dershowitz, who gets quoted frequently on the news, about his legal credentials. He made the claim in the Amanda Knox case that she “admitted she was at the crime scene” and that her DNA was on the murder weapon, knife. Well, Alan, I am not going to even spend any time on the DNA issue, since if you had spent any time researching it, you wouldn’t have made such a statement.

You also claimed that she had been found “guilty” in an Italian court of law. Well, Mr. legal-eagle, according to Italian law, which you obviously know nothing about, it takes two courts of law to find someone guilty. For her, in the second court of law, she was exonerated, which means that she was never found guilty. The high court (Cassazione) asked it to be sent back to the lower courts. That is not a guilty verdict, just a request for a re-review.

Before you go firing off your mouth about this case, Alan, you should aquaint yourself with the specifics of the law. Anyone hiring you as a counselor would expect that much from you. But maybe years of seeking media attention have tainted you in you search for the truth.

http://www.beforeyoutakethatpill.com/in ... dentialed/



Can you feel the rage?
"For her, in the second court of law, she was exonerated, which means that she was never found guilty." Where did he get that piece of 'legal brilliance', a PR release?



Questioning Professor D.'s credentials?!

Are the FOA trying to look stupid?!

How do you beat graduating first in your class at what is widely regarded as the World's greatest law school (Yale)?!

How do you beat making full professor at Harvard Law School before the age of 30?!

How do you 'one up' a World Famous appellate criminal lawyer whose work has even been featured in an Academy Award winning film?!

How many papers on transnational law has Doug publisheAt this point, how would a person of reasonable intelligence conclude that the "advocacy" of the FOA is anything more than a full-on SMEAR campaign with no regard for the truth?


Yes but who is Alum Dershowitz? sh-))


Alan Dershowitz really made a name for himself with the Claus van Bulow case. But Jackie can fill you in better than I can.


Doug's just pissed off because he's not the cleverest boy in the class anymore. Not only does someone disagree with him but their credentials beat Doug's PhD hands down. A kick arse Harvard law genius says Knox and Sollecito have a case to answer AND that Knox is in danger of extradition. Bad luck Dougie, you backed the wrong horse. There's still time to change your mind.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thatcher has died...stroke!

_________________
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

tamale wrote:
There is much suffering in the world right now (and always)...I am sending soft violet waves of comfort to all of you...as you did for me when I needed it. Love, life and loss. Sadness we all share in one way or another.

I want to thank all the liars who compelled me to tell the truth and to find the truth. I would like to thank all those who gave me room to come to my own conclusions, free from criticism and insult.

Thanks Maundy Gregory and Mach (oh yeah). Ergon, so many thanks. Thank you Meredith....for telling the truth.



Best wishes, Bettina/Tamale


All the best to you too Bettina, and many thanks for telling the truth. Whatever is covered up, is always revealed one day. Please keep in touch; there is more to come.
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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Thatcher has died...stroke!


I think its vile to wish people dead but in Thatchers case, I always made an exception. Happy days in the north of England today, certainly down the M62 corridor. My dad was on strike for a big chunk of the late 70's early 80's and I got to grow up in the wastelands she created up here. My Facebook news page is awash with "Ding Dong, the witch is dead..." proclamations, I couldn't agree more.

/political rant
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Offline zorba


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Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yeah and now those nauseating obituaries to her, all the time, I mean she was hardly ever heard of anymore and right away the conservatives try to make use of her death, by putting labour down, oh yeah she was so fantastic, it was elbow left, elbow right, fcuk you jack cos I'm alright, that is what she made things like, so that even nice people, so afraid to also fall out of that boat, were just happy they were stilll managing and so were blinded by their own apparent good fortune, and could not stop to help anyone drowning, I mean, wasn't it her who stole the kiddy's school milk, you know the free stuff? yes, look at how much money we saved, now about those fighter planes. Duh.

So I get your drift Daisy, I expect many a person in the land of reality would not piss on her grave if she were on fire, I mean what is it, someone dies then suddenly they're fantastic?

Where would we have been without Spitting Image?

She was not the only one though and it disturbs me to see the other old conservative forever on the telly, Portillo, I don't get it why he is on TV on a regular programme, if you ask me he kissed her arse too. I mean they have some labour person on too but the programme turns him somehow into the main man as he has been there longest. Everywhere in the world there are shit politicians but nobody does it quite as well as Britain, it's what conservatives represent, nobody can imitate how crap they are and how bad they are for Britain, not even the American republicans, it's just different. Thatcher turned a blind eye to dictators as long as the big firms got lucrative multi million dollar deals, weapons, how many ya want dictator guy? Then on telly, charity, help these people here, there, yeah but why they are in that state has everything to do with the way they are and have been treated by developed countries.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Get the impression those two have buttoned the cake hole now, I mean Solopsycho as well, as he was on the self-promotional tour.

I wonder.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Will Knox's attorney be in attendance during the Diane Sawyer interview?
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Offline Itchy Brother


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Location: California/U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Will Knox's attorney be in attendance during the Diane Sawyer interview?


That depends on what you mean by "in attendance". I am operating under the assumption that she has had and will continue to have legal representation in her effort to capitalize on this crime. That may mean that the "interview" will be carefully scripted and/or contractually bound to exclude anything that might pose a risk. In other words, having an attorney "in attendance" may not be obvious to viewers.

On the other hand, there's no guarantee that her legal representation has been or will be competent. We may still get some surprises. But I really don't expect a confrontational interview. I can't see Knox IncorporatedTM allowing that to happen.
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Offline Itchy Brother


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Location: California/U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:37 pm   Post subject: Warm Wishes   

I would like to add my voice to the others who have expressed sympathy for those facing difficulties. The fact that we care is why we are all here (including those who believe in innocence).
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Offline Napia5


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Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Itchy Brother wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Will Knox's attorney be in attendance during the Diane Sawyer interview?


That depends on what you mean by "in attendance". I am operating under the assumption that she has had and will continue to have legal representation in her effort to capitalize on this crime. That may mean that the "interview" will be carefully scripted and/or contractually bound to exclude anything that might pose a risk. In other words, having an attorney "in attendance" may not be obvious to viewers.

On the other hand, there's no guarantee that her legal representation has been or will be competent. We may still get some surprises. But I really don't expect a confrontational interview. I can't see Knox IncorporatedTM allowing that to happen.


By "in attendance" I meant physically present and on-camera during the interview. From a PR standpoint, I think that this is a distinct possibility. After all, she has waited all this time to be heard, and still can't speak freely, poor lamb, because her attorney is advising her which questions she can answer. Takes the pressure off her in a very public way, IMO.
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Offline Itchy Brother


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Right. So my little snippet about Ava.

Remember, this was in 1952. :shock: Ava was in London. She was now famous...and her lover Frank Sinatra's star was most definitely on the wane.

There's a press conference..with reporters from all over the World. A reporter asks Ava * Is Frank going to be joining you ? His career is over..What do you see in this guy? He's just a hundred-and nineteen pound-loser*.

And Ava says..very demurely..just very cool, with the most ladylike diction, * well, I'll tell you-nineteen pounds is cock. *

angel-) :)


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I have a particular fondness for women who confidently bucked social norms. Katherine Hepburn and Mae West come to mind. Sounds like I would enjoy reading Ava's biography.
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Offline Itchy Brother


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Location: California/U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Itchy Brother wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Will Knox's attorney be in attendance during the Diane Sawyer interview?


That depends on what you mean by "in attendance". I am operating under the assumption that she has had and will continue to have legal representation in her effort to capitalize on this crime. That may mean that the "interview" will be carefully scripted and/or contractually bound to exclude anything that might pose a risk. In other words, having an attorney "in attendance" may not be obvious to viewers.

On the other hand, there's no guarantee that her legal representation has been or will be competent. We may still get some surprises. But I really don't expect a confrontational interview. I can't see Knox IncorporatedTM allowing that to happen.


By "in attendance" I meant physically present and on-camera during the interview. From a PR standpoint, I think that this is a distinct possibility. After all, she has waited all this time to be heard, and still can't speak freely, poor lamb, because her attorney is advising her which questions she can answer. Takes the pressure off her in a very public way, IMO.


I see your point. "I really want to be heard but I'm still muzzled due to that out of control prosecutor."
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

This about extradition, in America, certain Americans don't get it, because they don't want to get it, the words new trial are being used but it is NOT a new trial, the trial was when they got convicted and that still stands, to speak of a new trial is deadly inaccurate and misleading because it conjures up the idea that it is exactly that, a new trial but it has nothing to do with it, and so the double jeopardy notion is non-existent, it is not like the case was thrown out then they decided to try her again, no way, the appeal was never final and anyone with any sense and some knowledge should be able to see and realise that, newspapers may speak of a new trial, and so-called informed people may do likewise but they are not informed at all as they base everything they say on rules and systems that are not the Italian one, it's like saying let's play chess then doing that but using the rules of backgammon, it would be ridiculous and ridiculous is exactly what this idea is: of they will not extradite her because the Italians are trying her again,

they are not,

the pair have been found guilty and as Italian law goes there are three stages,
the second stage ruling was overturned and that is being redone,
then there is the highest court which has the full and maximum power,
what they say goes.

In international law, each country around the world signs up to certain rules, not all countries sign up to the same ones, but, to ignore another countries sovereignty is a most great insult, and it is not an easy thing to do. It is like saying, we do not accept/respect the Italian country, its laws, its institutions, its people. It is not as easy as some ill-informed people think it is to simply ignore the sovereignty and what it means.

A trial is a trial and an appeal always means something other, something different than what is meant by a trial.

It is called a new appeal not a new trial.
Onions are onions and bullshit is bullshit.
And once more that last-named nicety 'bullshitting' is what is happening, yet again, by this spreading of false information based on ignorance.

Even in America and Britain an appeal is possible though far harder to come by than it is in Italy but Italy wishes to make sure it is right when it locks people up, when you get done in America then you are done, the same applies to the United Kingdom, done is done and there had better be very damning evidence or you will never get granted an appeal.

The Italian system protects those accused of crimes.
The evidence, finally, in the Italian courts, must also be damning, but it is not a trial and then let's lock you up throw away the key; you get the chance to make sure, to provide a concrete story, but if your story in Italy shows so many things, logically, point to you, so MANY things, as it does in this case, then that circumstantial, the totality of peripherals, convicts you.
It does not matter that Meredith was already attacked outside then they dressed up in plastic bags or whatever other thing they did.
No trace of Knox on Meredith's person or in Meredith's room does not mean she is not guilty as there were no traces of Knox found anywhere in the entire house, the idea of innocence on that basis idea is meaningless, for so many criminals set about hiding what they did, however, the other information, so much facts and details, show that it would be impossible for the pair of them not to have been involved, this can be seen from so MANY ANGLES, AND NO STUPID EXCUSES GET THEM OFF THE HOOK.

Where the hell are the traces of her in the house, she lived there, hardly any traces were found of Guede, not like the way it was portrayed, there were never thousands of traces of him.
What I think is they, or Knox, encouraged Guede, and all three were off their nuts on dope, not weed or hash, then when Guede had already molested and attempted to rape Meredith, the other two somehow got involved, neither Knox or Sollecito needed to touch Meredith in order to plunge a KNIFE THROUGH HER NECK THEN RUN. THE DYNAMICS COULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS; THERE ARE MANY POSSIBILITIES AS TO HOW THE SCENE APPEARED THE WAY IT DID, yet they were there.

Still, the likelihood of no trace of Sollecito being found ANYWHERE IN THE HOUSE, but the one trace being then found on Meredith's bra clasp, in that context, and that it would then be invalid and not his, is ridiculous.
It is like some far out statistic, a one in a billion chance worked out that way that it could no be his DNA; but...it was his DNA.
The logic of that fact (his DNA) overrules any false accusations of contamination, placed and introduced, repeatedly, by and through the acts of defamation of character and undermining of ability/skills as used repeatedly by the defence parties against the prosecution.

Undermining everyone is not a strategy that the high courts appreciate as it is way to easy to see what is being done; defamation and accusing people of being incompetent is not solid ground/a solid defence, it is a sign of pure weakness, and in the end will work against the accused and convicted.

Meantime, the cashing in by publishing books and using the media the way these have, will also be considered to be sure signs of flagrant disregard for the law and the top judges will punish those acts.

Unlike in a certain other case, where at the Supreme Court the judges decided the culprit was not mentally fit, even though the culprit said all along I am mentally fit,
and where the Supreme Court then,
taking the mental incapacity into account
(though the accused did not want to be type cast like that and said she was okay),
reduced the sentence, well here, with these two, there will be no such mitigation possible, because the lengths they have gone to do get out of it by accusing every single person they could, shows that they were in full command of their faculties, before, during and after Meredith's murder, and so this may mean their sentences will be increased to the full life term.
Defamnation, such as they have engaged in, is far more heavy within the context of murder than it is when it is done as a way to stain someone's character, the seriousness of murder places such accusations in a different league.

It is a lame set of props used by the defence where they tried to discredit so many others, and take no blame where blame was due, ignoring whatever they liked, in fact so much so that things journeyed into the realm of sheer madness, where Knox accused an innocent man, and expects it to be seen as something entirely unattached from the whole, where the circumambulatory nature and full picture of matters must be taken fully into consideration in order to get to a real picture of the actual events/truth and those with a greater all-round picture of what the truth really is, eg: the Supreme Court, know that, see that, and that is why the Supreme Court has obliterated the amateurish judgment made by the novice Hellmann, for this case would otherwise have set a most shockingly backward precedent, where afterwards nobody would ever have needed to pay for the crime of murder.

To conclude once more: There is to be NO NEW TRIAL.
It is called, an APPEAL*.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:11 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Itchy Brother wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Itchy Brother wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Will Knox's attorney be in attendance during the Diane Sawyer interview?


That depends on what you mean by "in attendance". I am operating under the assumption that she has had and will continue to have legal representation in her effort to capitalize on this crime. That may mean that the "interview" will be carefully scripted and/or contractually bound to exclude anything that might pose a risk. In other words, having an attorney "in attendance" may not be obvious to viewers.

On the other hand, there's no guarantee that her legal representation has been or will be competent. We may still get some surprises. But I really don't expect a confrontational interview. I can't see Knox IncorporatedTM allowing that to happen.


By "in attendance" I meant physically present and on-camera during the interview. From a PR standpoint, I think that this is a distinct possibility. After all, she has waited all this time to be heard, and still can't speak freely, poor lamb, because her attorney is advising her which questions she can answer. Takes the pressure off her in a very public way, IMO.


I see your point. "I really want to be heard but I'm still muzzled due to that out of control prosecutor."


Yes, that's it. Camera starts rolling with a very solemn Diane Sawyer, explaining briefly the current changes in the case. Also, the reason for the attorney's presence. "She wants to talk, afterall. She's been waiting all this time." But.....
Ah, sigh. Long-suffering looks all round. That's how I'd play this. Which will get her out of any tough questions she may encounter on any book tour.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:33 am   Post subject: BATH MAT PRINT   

Some Alibi has posted on True Justice with a graphic representation of the differences between Raffaele Sollecito and Rudy Guede's foot as referenced to the bloody bath mat print.

Quite conclusive, as far as I am concerned.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
.....
To conclude once more: There is to be NO NEW TRIAL.
It is called, an APPEAL*.


True, zorba, but also, given the nature of the Italian legal system:

1) First, the Supreme Court ruling will be dissected to see where the Hellmann court went wrong, as that will guide the Florence Appeal court's terms of reference. Wouldn't want Cassazione to overthrow it again, would they? I always admired the Cassazione reasoning on Guede as the determining factor that underlaid this trial. Rudy Guede, along with others, committed the crime.
2) The system does allow for a revisit of Massei's reasoning. It does allow for new evidence. But I am going to make a conservative prediction: no retesting of the knife, no interviewing of Guede, Alessi and Aviello :)
3) Knox will not attend the trial, nor will Sollecito. This will be held against them, and they will lose, in Florence and at the final Cassazione hearing. They've already telegraphed their new strategy: they expect this as a foregone conclusion and are trying to forestall the extradition process.

-An interesting aside: will Knox thank Bruce Fischer in her book? Candace Dempsey? Frank Sfarzo? :) They did hitch themselves to her (falling) star.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:12 am   Post subject: Re: BATH MAT PRINT   

Ergon wrote:
Some Alibi has posted on True Justice with a graphic representation of the differences between Raffaele Sollecito and Rudy Guede's foot as referenced to the bloody bath mat print.

Quite conclusive, as far as I am concerned.


I wonder what Rose thinks? she's been working the prints on Jref using photos. SA has a fresh approach which is going to be hard to knock down.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
zorba wrote:
.....
To conclude once more: There is to be NO NEW TRIAL.
It is called, an APPEAL*.


True, zorba, but also, given the nature of the Italian legal system:

1) First, the Supreme Court ruling will be dissected to see where the Hellmann court went wrong, as that will guide the Florence Appeal court's terms of reference. Wouldn't want Cassazione to overthrow it again, would they? I always admired the Cassazione reasoning on Guede as the determining factor that underlaid this trial. Rudy Guede, along with others, committed the crime.
2) The system does allow for a revisit of Massei's reasoning. It does allow for new evidence. But I am going to make a conservative prediction: no retesting of the knife, no interviewing of Guede, Alessi and Aviello :)
3) Knox will not attend the trial, nor will Sollecito. This will be held against them, and they will lose, in Florence and at the final Cassazione hearing. They've already telegraphed their new strategy: they expect this as a foregone conclusion and are trying to forestall the extradition process.

-An interesting aside: will Knox thank Bruce Fischer in her book? Candace Dempsey? Frank Sfarzo? :) They did hitch themselves to her (falling) star.



That is true Ergon but, what I am saying is that to name the appeal a NEW TRIAL is yet another way to mislead, so that people imagine there is some injustice, because it makes them think there is being a new trial, but it is not that even though new evidence can be entered, this is the same in any appeal, but this what I'm on about is that to call it a new trial allows for a continuation of the idea of these two -both of whom are presently classed as murderers- people as two people being mistreated Ergon.
Like look, the poor lambs, tried, found not guilty or found innocent as they like to call/name it (incorrectly worded when using innocent, it's called Not Guilty) but the case was always going to be ongoing.

Therefore, where before all kinds of misinformation was put out there precisely in order to confuse and mislead people, this new introduction of the incorrect use of terms is able to do the same thing to those who know not a lot, or nothing at all, about their own laws, let alone those of Italy or according to International Law.

People write lots of incorrect stuff in newspapers or online news sources (Italians use the correct Italian word appello, which is appeal and not trial) simply because they write and that's all, they have no credentials through it being a hobby or some such thing, they know NOTHING.

So now using this context: New trial,
they are starting debates,
as Nap referred to, about double jeopardy and how it's not right to put them through a new trial
but they are not being put through a new trial, it is absolutely incorrect to see it in that way,
even if, as you say new evidence can be introduced; you do not call a trial for youngsters to be tested so that they get the chance to play in a top football club as juniors and then call them seniors playing in a world cup final, no you cannot interchange terms and think of it as having no consequence, get it right I say or shut up.

I knew all of this but had it confirmed in Italy without even asking for anyone to do so, the person remarked on how it is being written about an they are using the wrong terms, the incorrect interpretation/concept of what it is really is.

Even you Ergon are thinking that way on this (according to your own idea of what a trial means, which is new evidence so that makes it a trial, it is an aoppeal process, also a trial but in the first polace, the right sense is that it is an appeal and you cannot ever call it a new trial, bot in this system. You are saying here now, yeah but they are going to be able to introduce new evidence, however that makes a new trial NOT.
New evidence in an appeal in Britain or America forms one of the ONLY grounds for getting an appeal at all, so that point is irrelevant in reference or relation to what I am saying.

For Knox and Sollecito, it's perfect if without their PR lot introducing the notion, newspapers start churning out the same old dog-tired themes, incorrect from start to finish.

They love to paint pictures with invisible ink, so then they start putting out the idea that they were all sat together on the decision day, waiting for the confirmation from the Supreme Court, confirmation that they had been let off, but to even say SUCH A THING AT THAT LEVEL is ridiculous, it is because what an arrogance to think that they could just know or expect, so now putting out this propaganda has the aim of letting people think, oh look at the mean Supreme Court making them so upset like that, they've let them down. Depite these lies and misleading acts, the fact is that the Supreme Court owes them nothing, owes nobody anything, things do not function at that level, that is pure nonsense.

Propaganda number (*lost count)
So they were all gathered together, each one had an own bucket of popcorn and what? Ah, the party was ruined, that wicked Supreme Court.

Now wait for anything they can find to use to undermine the Supreme Court or those that sat on the panel, and it just goes on and on and on, blame someone else.

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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I’m not sure if it is just me but TJMK is down. Anyone else having problems? Its been down for a couple of hours now.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

daisysteiner wrote:
I’m not sure if it is just me but TJMK is down. Anyone else having problems? Its been down for a couple of hours now.



Yes, me too, thought I'd done something wrong.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yes, TJMK appears to be down at the moment.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

At my end too. Yep, they're down, and Fast Pete hasn't shown up at .ORG to clarify.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Point taken, zorba. It isn't a new trial, and it isn't "double jeopardy", so we'll just plug away. Most people just don't care; her Amazon ranking was at #4000+, now at #6206 and falling. Canadian crooner Paul Anka is at #1015, so there.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

TJMK is back up.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Point taken, zorba. It isn't a new trial, and it isn't "double jeopardy", so we'll just plug away. Most people just don't care; her Amazon ranking was at #4000+, now at #6206 and falling. Canadian crooner Paul Anka is at #1015, so there.



Hey even publishers, when you see what goes on, like now through this, you see them in a differenrt light too, they are the same as those who pushed Michael Jackson knowing he was ill, they don't care, they want money, everyone wants money, even those wearing what you'd think is the cloak of respectability, but respectable it is not, not when you get to see what they do, so they couldn't care less if Knox had chopped a dozen babies up, they would still publish her fairy tale, as though she was BAMBI, as innocent as that, yet you'd think seeing all the rest of the failures that they'd look for something real, after all, if this HAD been real, people would have been inrterested in reading it, but they are NOT because they do not like the look, smell, sound or taste of it, it's crap. These publishers sure must make a packet off cooking books because this stuff is just costing them.
I just watched 30 seconds of the honorable killer with Anderson, that's all I coud stomach of him or Anderson, never seen Anderson before but he in questioning Sollecito, and not knowing things that are so well known, like Sollecito and Knox not knowing each other, shows that he understands nothing and that his questions are a waste of time, the way he was putting it was like oh so in that case, why would you murder someone, if you both only knew each other a week how could you team up and Sollecito must have been studying poetry books at night, because his lines made me throw up all over the computer, so nauseatingly shite that they were.
We were like a flower that still had to blossom, (fingers down throat) ahhhh puke, puke, puke, we still had to open, puke puke puke, all over him.

Stupid person

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

To his surprise, Charles Mudede found himself agreeing with Ann Coulter for the first time in his life ;)

The Only Thing That Can Change My Opinion of the Amanda Knox Drama?

Charles Mudede wrote:
Realizing that my position is identical with batty Ann Coulter...
Yes, believe me, it's unsettling to find oneself agreeing with Coulter.
To keep things in reasonable order, I may have to take no sides in this neverending story.


THE STRANGER

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi, zorba. Anderson Cooper? Just who IS this man? I have watched his morning show infrequently, but enough to wonder whether he is suffering from some sort of split personality disorder. This show has been cancelled, by the way.
IMO, he is so full of weird quirks, that he has done some damage to his overall television persona. I for one did not need to know about his obsession with bare feet. They disgust him, and this disgust was mentioned in some context or another on every show that I happened to catch. WTH? Who cares? Slightly bizarre, but you get the picture.
He has also had the pleasure? of having Jane Velez-Mitchell as co-host on more than one show. You remember her. She gushed over what an amazing man Sollecito is, and knows this because of her brief time in an elevator with him.

So, bird-brains of a feather. AC gets my award for least-knowledgeable commentator on the continuing search for justice for Meredith. Fluff, fluff, and nothing but, unless you count totally false as an adjective too.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
1) First, the Supreme Court ruling will be dissected to see where the Hellmann court went wrong, as that will guide the Florence Appeal court's terms of reference. Wouldn't want Cassazione to overthrow it again, would they? ...
2) The system does allow for a revisit of Massei's reasoning. It does allow for new evidence...


The Supreme Court motivations and guidelines for the Florence Appeal Court will be very interesting reading. Can't wait for the English translation of the ruling: could be another 2-3 months? Half a year? Sigh. Getting a bit impatient.

Kercher Murder – Acquittal Overturned

Mr Riello said that the new trial in Florence would be “about everything. The Court of Cassation’s ruling is a guiding track along which the court of Florence will have to proceed. It will set out the principles to be followed in reassessing the verdict”. The chief prosecutor again said that in the Court of Cassation, verdicts were in the dock, not people.


CORRIERE DELLA SERA
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Offline Itchy Brother


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:41 pm   Post subject: Site Down?   

daisysteiner wrote:
I’m not sure if it is just me but TJMK is down. Anyone else having problems? Its been down for a couple of hours now.


FYI, there is a site designed to answer this very question. It's called, surprisingly enough, "Down For Everyone Or Just Me". :)

http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Hi, zorba. Anderson Cooper? Just who IS this man? I have watched his morning show infrequently, but enough to wonder whether he is suffering from some sort of split personality disorder. This show has been cancelled, by the way.
IMO, he is so full of weird quirks, that he has done some damage to his overall television persona. I for one did not need to know about his obsession with bare feet. They disgust him, and this disgust was mentioned in some context or another on every show that I happened to catch. WTH? Who cares? Slightly bizarre, but you get the picture.
He has also had the pleasure? of having Jane Velez-Mitchell as co-host on more than one show. You remember her. She gushed over what an amazing man Sollecito is, and knows this because of her brief time in an elevator with him.

So, bird-brains of a feather. AC gets my award for least-knowledgeable commentator on the continuing search for justice for Meredith. Fluff, fluff, and nothing but, unless you count totally false as an adjective too.


Hi Nap will be getting back to you on that other. And, thanks for sticking to the points, unlike me, but we all have our different ways, I actually do mostly stick to the point even when I am writing stuff that sounds like I'm having a laugh, well, it's mainly to stop from crying.

It amazes me, know there are some brilliant minds in America, to see in the media most often the worst minds, or well, to say they have a mind is kind of giving them too much credit.

The most joyous, or one of them then, moments I saw, was that man freaking out at Sollecito in America, you could see Sollecito's reaction was not like one of someone innocent, I mean if you'd really been innocent and spent a few years in jail, your face wouldn't react like his did, you'd show it, without trying, where you are at, Sollecito showed that he actually knew he deserved this but all of the strategy had been carefully planned to avoid anything real happening, his reaction saw him sat there with the little beady eyes of shithouse rat.

There's no way either of them would enter any debate without this set of conditions that the interviewers must sign up to and pay a million or whatever if they deviate from the set and agreed upon lines and questions, so like that, it's the interviewers who have to be careful what they say and nboth of them know that. Still, I expect Knox is now being coached on how to act, and the story they will try to push, only it is getting way too thin now.

Judy, yes indeed, I'm afraid Michelle whatsit would not have taken first prize home that night at the Let's See Who Is Thickest annual competition.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yes Guede may not have lashed out with the final stroke but, his keeping quiet tells me, he is more than afraid to admit, yes I did rape Meredith, his part was more, since he allowed the other two to do what they did.

The only reason Sollecito could have been scared of what Guede said was when Sollecito thought now Guede is caught they've got his traces and he cannot get out so caught he may decide to squeal on us, that was what Sollecito meant, but with the trying to get out of it -something done by all of them, this includes Guede, in that he never admitted anything and as it turned out, only had the courts say he was involved; it is indeed obvious he was not the killer, but it is a tricky mix of what they all did - it kept Guede from just owning up, after all, his tale was ridiculous, the one where he said he went to the WC and came back to what he said he did. He not owning up means that he wanted to limit damage to himself and if he had grassed the other two up his real contribution would have come out too, so he realised he was better off saying nothing, if he really had only been involved in rape then he might have had the courage to come out with the truth, but, somehow they all worked together and therefore it does not matter who actually stabbed Meredith, they were in a conspiracy, and no matter what Guede thought was going on and even if he had not expected it to go that far, his intentions were not good and in not stopping the other two and instead accepting their help in whatever it is he was doing wrong, he was left unable to admit that he raped Meredith or tried, for the true the severity of his own involvement was equal to that of the others, only he may not have, in the madness of the moments there, expected Knox would stab Meredith to death.

Whatever way it went down, it's like they've all held one another to ransom without having to say it is like that/or that is the case, as they all know, obviously, what they all did, they all worked out how things stood between them, individually, lying on their prison bunks.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
To his surprise, Charles Mudede found himself agreeing with Ann Coulter for the first time in his life ;)

The Only Thing That Can Change My Opinion of the Amanda Knox Drama?

Charles Mudede wrote:
Realizing that my position is identical with batty Ann Coulter...
Yes, believe me, it's unsettling to find oneself agreeing with Coulter.
To keep things in reasonable order, I may have to take no sides in this neverending story.


THE STRANGER

Attachment:
Mudede.jpg


Hi Guermantes,

I liked Charles Muede's articles early in the case. A shame he didn't cover the whole trial and development of the case. Reading the article you linked to, I see Amanda Knox has a Twitter account. Those are the some of the lamest tweets I've ever seen. Do we know if this is actually her account?

Judging by the typos and grammar mistakes, it probably is her Twitter account. "Waiting to me heard" and "who's lives have been destroyed", really? No proof reading before hitting the submit button, I guess. I read a lot of "god bless you". Didn't know she was religious. Must have happened overnight.

Quote:
amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 13 Feb

my book is called "waiting to me heard" #amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 13 Feb

will be on ABC news April 30 #amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 16 Oct

sorry i don't respond to direct message's i was told not to ,thank for your support and god bless you all #amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 25 Aug

@Humpasarusrex thank you
View conversation
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 25 Aug

.thanks for all the support,all the negative things still being said have no truth #amandaknox #truthfull
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 6 Aug

I Love watching the #olympics #amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 19 Jul

sorry for repeating i just want you all to know i have nothing to do with a book /movie deal #amandaknox ty for all the support
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 12 Jun

thank you to all my supporters #amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 12 Jun

i'm not involved in no book deal/movie..yes i do love italy but i will never return #amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 30 May

My prayers are with the people of italy who's lives have been destroyed by the recent earthquakes #amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 22 Mar 12

How can we let this happen to #Trayvon Martin..it's heart breaking . i pray for justice god bless his family #amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 22 Mar 12

my prayers and heart go out to the family of #Trayvon Martin and his family, i hope justice will be served #amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 27 Feb 12

i really enjoyed the #oscars lastnight
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 21 Feb 12

Live the life you have imagined #amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 20 Feb 12

so happy for #elizabethsmart #congradulations
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 5 Feb 12

happy to watch the #superbowl it's been so long what team should i go for #amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 26 Jan 12

All the rumors about me going back to italy are false.#amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 26 Jan 12

thank you everyone for your continued support.God bless you all and have a great day #amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 7 Jan 12

i am so happy to be here for the new year..hope everyone had fun and god bless #amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 31 Dec 11

#happynewyear and god bless everyone #amandaknox
Expand
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:05 am   Post subject: Re: Site Down?   

Itchy Brother wrote:
daisysteiner wrote:
I’m not sure if it is just me but TJMK is down. Anyone else having problems? Its been down for a couple of hours now.


FYI, there is a site designed to answer this very question. It's called, surprisingly enough, "Down For Everyone Or Just Me". :)

http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/


Truejustice.org is back online.
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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:14 am   Post subject: Re: Site Down?   

Itchy Brother wrote:
daisysteiner wrote:
I’m not sure if it is just me but TJMK is down. Anyone else having problems? Its been down for a couple of hours now.


FYI, there is a site designed to answer this very question. It's called, surprisingly enough, "Down For Everyone Or Just Me". :)

http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/


Thanks for this IC, that site is ace :)
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
To his surprise, Charles Mudede found himself agreeing with Ann Coulter for the first time in his life ;)

The Only Thing That Can Change My Opinion of the Amanda Knox Drama?

Charles Mudede wrote:
Realizing that my position is identical with batty Ann Coulter...
Yes, believe me, it's unsettling to find oneself agreeing with Coulter.
To keep things in reasonable order, I may have to take no sides in this neverending story.


THE STRANGER

Attachment:
Mudede.jpg


Hi Guermantes,

I liked Charles Muede's articles early in the case. A shame he didn't cover the whole trial and development of the case. Reading the article you linked to, I see Amanda Knox has a Twitter account. Those are the some of the lamest tweets I've ever seen. Do we know if this is actually her account?

Judging by the typos and grammar mistakes, it probably is her Twitter account. "Waiting to me heard" and "who's lives have been destroyed", really? No proof reading before hitting the submit button, I guess. I read a lot of "god bless you". Didn't know she was religious. Must have happened overnight.


Or overnight in prison, remember the prison priest she became friends with in Capanne?
These tweets are indeed lame, she obviously has nothing to say (if it is her), maybe a foreshadowing of the upcoming interview...
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Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

In case anyone missed it. Wendy Murphy, loud and clear. Can hardly understand what Anne Bremner is mumbling :mrgreen:

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/be ... remner.cnn
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
To his surprise, Charles Mudede found himself agreeing with Ann Coulter for the first time in his life ;)

The Only Thing That Can Change My Opinion of the Amanda Knox Drama?

Charles Mudede wrote:
Realizing that my position is identical with batty Ann Coulter...
Yes, believe me, it's unsettling to find oneself agreeing with Coulter.
To keep things in reasonable order, I may have to take no sides in this neverending story.


THE STRANGER

Attachment:
Mudede.jpg


Hi Guermantes,

I liked Charles Muede's articles early in the case. A shame he didn't cover the whole trial and development of the case. Reading the article you linked to, I see Amanda Knox has a Twitter account. Those are the some of the lamest tweets I've ever seen. Do we know if this is actually her account?

Judging by the typos and grammar mistakes, it probably is her Twitter account. "Waiting to me heard" and "who's lives have been destroyed", really? No proof reading before hitting the submit button, I guess. I read a lot of "god bless you". Didn't know she was religious. Must have happened overnight.

Quote:
amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 13 Feb



My prayers are with the people of italy who's lives have been destroyed by the recent earthquakes #amandaknox
Expand
amanda knox amanda knox ‏@Amandu_knoxx 22 Mar 12





Sure does look like something that cat Bruce Fwit would write, I mean to say, as if anyone in Italy, let alone God, would care about what she thinks, the lying toerag.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

This woman Wendy is what I was missing, such a breathe of fresh air (when I listened you know what I imagined/saw, well was Knox herself sinking in her chair), and God it's hard to watch what with that face of Bremner in there, she looks ill.

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Last edited by zorba on Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Also,

double jeopardy does exist in Italy, right after the final supreme Court ruling, that has not yet arrived, but if they are found guilty then they stay that way, likewise, if found not guilty and the Supreme Court upholds that, then there can be no new appeals.

The chance of the fresh appeal doing what it incorrectly did before is extremely unlikely, the new judges will have to do the same things Massei did but Hellmann did not, and that's account do all of his words, remarks, rulings and sentence.

I do hope they are given the full life term, they've done their utmost bests to deserve it.


As added note, I thought that Bremner was a lousyt excuse for a lawyer and uglier than the back end of a cow before (after all shge put a picture of herself on her site that must have been taken in 1959 then on seeing her how she really is was like seeing that young girl in the film SHE dissolve on the sp oit, as a kid it reallyt scred me as I was quite in love wit that girl and think I may have ventured back to the Saturday Morning Pictures for kids, just to see her again, me aged 8) but now enduring her nonsense again, I see her mind is obviously the ugliest thing about her, especially when confronted by someone sane and far more heavyweight, talking sense, well, she Bremner Goebbels was nowhere... nowhere, her position in the States I do not get it, she ought to be taken out and put in front of a drunken Mexican firing squad of poor but not too poor shots, yes, because that is a cruel individual, lying to her teeth, or maybe she is just plain thick as shit. So weak, so very, very pathetically weak.

Boy oh boy a woman like that other, that so does me good, makes me wonder where they were before, she is of the calibre I expected, and know is present in the States.

Seeing Knox in that clip, God did she ever look like she was acting, faking it all.
See I never watch those things, much, as they make my guts turn somersaults, as in sick.

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Last edited by zorba on Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

That laugh and look on the face of Wendy Murphy when Bremner tells a straight lie saying 'definitely not' when the question of extradition was raised. Worth more than a thousand words.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

But Bremner shows she is absolutely not with it, to say such a thing as That's in Italy, means she does not understand the value of a country's rights or its sovereignty, she shows that she should never ever have been practicing law as she does not understand respect, so how could she be involved in people's rights -which is after all what justice is all about- if she makes remarks that would be expected from the mouth of an uneducated criminal, to me, she is exactly that then, an uneducated criminal.

PS: She looked drunk too... again.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I'm not really a fan of these 30 second or one minute debates. Too much information in too short a timeframe.
But, if one is watching this from a neutral postition, one would certainly get the impression that Wendy was more familiar with the facts she was presenting. I loved her astonished face also. Anne stumbled and backtracked. She did not appear at all prepared for any part of this discussion. IMO, too many eyes watching now to try to slide by with myths and tears.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Knox is going to have to wait longer to be heard in the UK.
Quote:
HarperCollins will not be publishing Amanda Knox's memoir Waiting to be Heard in the UK this spring as planned following legal advice.

The publisher had been due to release the title on 9th May.

A spokesperson for HarperCollins said: "Due to our legal system, and relying upon advice from our counsel, HarperCollins UK will not publish a British edition of Waiting to Be Heard, by Amanda Knox, at this time."

HC US has said it will go ahead with publication, scheduled for 30th April.
http://www.thebookseller.com/news/hc-uk ... -hold.html


Cross fingers Harper Collins US will find a way out of the deal as well, let her be "waiting to be paid".
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
Those are the some of the lamest tweets I've ever seen. Do we know if this is actually her account?

Judging by the typos and grammar mistakes, it probably is her Twitter account. "Waiting to me heard" and "who's lives have been destroyed", really? No proof reading before hitting the submit button, I guess. I read a lot of "god bless you". Didn't know she was religious. Must have happened overnight.



It’s not been verified by Twitter, but then famous felons, sex offenders, and murderers aren’t included among the types of accounts they verify.

Quote:
What kinds of accounts get verified?
Twitter proactively verifies accounts on an ongoing basis to make it easier for users to find who they’re looking for. We concentrate on highly sought users in music, acting, fashion, government, politics, religion, journalism, media, advertising, business, and other key interest areas. We verify business partners from time to time and individuals at high risk of impersonation.


Didn’t Rocco Girlanda present her with an iPhone the day her conviction was overturned? It’s almost too funny to think of her tweeting away on an iPhone handed to her by the married politician/suitor as she was ‘covertly’ taken to undisclosed overnight accommodations ‘somewhere in Rome’. (You cannot turn off GPS tracking on an iPhone & the IP address of tweets are notoriously easy to hack.)

I love how all the tweets from that 'it's all about me' account are hashtagged #amandaknox (Merry Christmas #amandaknox). If it’s a parody account, her narcissism and her writing skills both are being mocked. If it is her, she’s too vile for words with some of those tweets:

“Live the life you have imagined #amandaknox”

Meredith Kercher certainly isn’t living the life she dreamed of.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Tweet
Armarda Knockx @ dad, thanks 4 everything I'll do the same 4 U if you murder someone

Armarda Knockx @ mom, if you murder anyone call me any time 3, 4 don't care, don't forget it

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

For her to have done all of this though, the behaviour after the murder perhaps, in a way, as bad or even worse than murder, at least in a sense, means there was something seriously screwed up about her, long before she left Seattle, since one could reason maybe there was some rage, some moment that everything went wrong, but the lengths they are both prepared to go and how Sollecito didn't even have the respect or common sense to shut up but rubs salt in the wound that this affair is, means there was something seriously screwed up about her and him.

God, they (especially family in Seattle) are keeping terrible secrets.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Just had a look inside Knox's book (in German translation). The first 22 pages are available to read online on the German publisher's website (thanks to Methos at .ORG for the heads up.)

Zeit, gehört zu werden

Click on "Im Buch blättern" in the upper left corner.

The book is structured chronologically, as is typical of a diary - how boring is that! - and the material has been divided into three parts (Untitled, Capanne I and Capanne II) And this is my first impression - BORING. On pp.22-23 she describes a pink bunny vibrator she got as a parting gift from her friend Brett and shares her views as a 20-year-old on sex.

hump-)
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Give her a break G... it was important enough to bring up in court- so important enough to start out the book. What a pile of you-know-what.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Here are some snippets from the book, translated into English - they left a smile on my face. That girl is such a goody-goody.... NOT.

Knox to dad: "Dad, I'd like to go to Perugia for a year, to learn Italian. It lies halfway between Florence and Rome, but is better than the two, because I wouldn't want to be part of a large horde (crowd) of American students. The town is small, and I'll be together with serious students. I'll be totally submerged in the culture."

"The University for Foreigners is a small [educational] institution that is focused exclusively on the study of languages. The program is tough, and I'll have to work hard. The hours that I don't sit in the classroom, I'll definitely spend in the library."

Mua-) la_)
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Just had a look inside Knox's book (in German translation). The first 22 pages are available to read online on the German publisher's website (thanks to Methos at .ORG for the heads up.)

Zeit, gehört zu werden

Click on "Im Buch blättern" in the upper left corner.

The book is structured chronologically, as is typical of a diary - how boring is that! - and the material has been divided into three parts (Untitled, Capanne I and Capanne II) And this is my first impression - BORING. On pp.22-23 she describes a pink bunny vibrator she got as a parting gift from her friend Brett and shares her views as a 20-year-old on sex.

hump-)


But, the vibrator was supposed to be a symbol for her late bloomerness/chastity, that's new. ;)
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

So far, it looks like it's mainly about introducing the Amanda being Amanda myth. She used to 'walk like an Egyptian' in the streets of Seattle, sing loudly in between classes at school and smoke grass in college. Then she went to Italy to grow up and develop her personality...


Last edited by Ava on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar

Knox the librarian now is it

stone the crows

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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Just had a look inside Knox's book (in German translation). The first 22 pages are available to read online on the German publisher's website (thanks to Methos at .ORG for the heads up.)

Zeit, gehört zu werden

Click on "Im Buch blättern" in the upper left corner.

The book is structured chronologically, as is typical of a diary - how boring is that! - and the material has been divided into three parts (Untitled, Capanne I and Capanne II) And this is my first impression - BORING. On pp.22-23 she describes a pink bunny vibrator she got as a parting gift from her friend Brett and shares her views as a 20-year-old on sex.

hump-)


But, the vibrator was supposed to be a symbol for her late bloomerness/chastity, that's new. ;)


I think all she's really saying is 'Hey, it's not like I had a massive black dildo stuffed in my (toiletry bag)! It was a cute pink vibrator! It's a metaphor for my innocence...get it??! The black man - he's bad - he did it!!"
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Here's an interesting post from a PR standpoint. Following the link in this article results in the discovery that Gogerty Marriott is still showcasing their handling of Amanda Knox, although the showcase page has not actually been updated to reflect the recent change in status.

http://www.mediabistro.com/prnewser/cou ... our_b61085
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Well, if Wendy is anything to go by the tired old lines as pushed out by the Knox's family/supporters and Knox herself are going to be wearing a bit thin, as in not working anymore.

Now imagine if Wendy had been the prosecutor and the case was in America, then Bremner showed up as the lawyer, her arguments would win nothing as they are not in fact arguments, more like an exercise in aggression and obfuscation of the facts

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
So far, it looks like it's mainly about introducing the Amanda being Amanda myth. She used to 'walk like an Egyptian' in the streets of Seattle, sing loudly in between classes at school and smoke grass in college. Then she went to Italy to grow up and develop her personality...


Hi, Ava. Quite a complicated mess they've worked themselves into, IMO. As far as guilt or innocence is concerned, it was and will always be a matter of facts and evidence presented in the Italian courts. As far as the creation of America's Sweetheart in the world of PR and book sales, it seems to me to be a massive disconnect. Her handlers have kept her so far out of sight of the American public, she now has to sell herself through the pages of a book. IMO, she would have been in a better position to sell her story had she been up front and personal, accessible and knowable during her time back in the states. People here have no flesh-and-blood, 3 dimensional, likeable human being that they have attached to. It's not surprising that the price of her book is dropping as we speak.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Well, if Wendy is anything to go by the tired old lines as pushed out by the Knox's family/supporters and Knox herself are going to be wearing a bit thin, as in not working anymore.

Now imagine if Wendy had been the prosecutor and the case was in America, then Bremner showed up as the lawyer, her arguments would win nothing as they are not in fact arguments, more like an exercise in aggression and obfuscation of the facts


It appears to me that the entire story has quickly dropped beneath the radar. I'm wondering if this is because the interview is already locked in, and the other networks have decided that all they will be doing is advertising and creating interest for ABC if they cover the story to any great extent.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Ava wrote:
So far, it looks like it's mainly about introducing the Amanda being Amanda myth. She used to 'walk like an Egyptian' in the streets of Seattle, sing loudly in between classes at school and smoke grass in college. Then she went to Italy to grow up and develop her personality...


Hi, Ava. Quite a complicated mess they've worked themselves into, IMO. As far as guilt or innocence is concerned, it was and will always be a matter of facts and evidence presented in the Italian courts. As far as the creation of America's Sweetheart in the world of PR and book sales, it seems to me to be a massive disconnect. Her handlers have kept her so far out of sight of the American public, she now has to sell herself through the pages of a book. IMO, she would have been in a better position to sell her story had she been up front and personal, accessible and knowable during her time back in the states. People here have no flesh-and-blood, 3 dimensional, likeable human being that they have attached to. It's not surprising that the price of her book is dropping as we speak.



Yes, price dropping.

The link to the PR place, I looked and what he was saying, I mean he said they didn't know much about the case and he is right, somehow he is under the illusion that product Knox is going to generate lots of money for media and PR firm, but that is not correct we know this because all of the books, those written from the side of defence, have not been successful at all, and the idea that there are lots who would want to read what she has to say is part of the illusion created by the PR firm and supporters that they speak for a majority somewhere when we know this is not accurate at all, they speak for a small group that was co ntroilled, within a bought-up section of the media.

Yes again debate based on incorrect info, if they say it will centre on the double jeopardy, they base that on the false wording, namely thew NEW TRIAL, without knowing how the framework used in Italy is different to the American one but that an acquittal too, was never the same as the sense the word acquittal conjures up to Americans, or British people, because it was NOT a final acquittal and the following appeal opportunities were always doing to take place and always were part of the equation therefore an acquittal as understood in America is not the same in Italy, as everyone knows in Italy that it is common practice for the appeals to follow-up the first ruling. If after the final Supreme Court ruling Italy was to call a NEW TRIAL, a real NEW TRIAL then there would be something to cry about, as things stand there is not, and according to International law other sovereign states must respect the rulings made in Italy. So unless America changes its laws and treaties with Italy, relating to extradition, America must satisfy a request to extradite Knox to Italy if found guilty by the Supreme Court.


Knox is not a military or political person, and she has nothing to do with issues of American security and terrorism measures, so those persons talking nonsense based on ignorance, can fool themselves but the government will have to extradite Knox.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Well, if Wendy is anything to go by the tired old lines as pushed out by the Knox's family/supporters and Knox herself are going to be wearing a bit thin, as in not working anymore.

Now imagine if Wendy had been the prosecutor and the case was in America, then Bremner showed up as the lawyer, her arguments would win nothing as they are not in fact arguments, more like an exercise in aggression and obfuscation of the facts


It appears to me that the entire story has quickly dropped beneath the radar. I'm wondering if this is because the interview is already locked in, and the other networks have decided that all they will be doing is advertising and creating interest for ABC if they cover the story to any great extent.


Oh I see, well, me I will not be able to stomach any interview by her as I know what it will be anyhow.

Too little too late and well she was unable to do it as an innocent person would as I doubt very much that she is innocent, in my opinion she is as guilty as sin.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Literary Agents: Will the Amanda Knox Book Sell? (video)

Quote:
THR (The Hollywood Reporter) asks its roundtable guests if they think the upcoming Amanda Knox memoir from HarperCollins will be a success. Robert Gottlieb of Trident Media said with a news driven story, much depends on the type of "excitement" a publisher can create around a story's second telling. "Secondly it depends on what she's put in the book to help make it a national story again."


THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Literary Agents: Will the Amanda Knox Book Sell? (video)

Quote:
THR (The Hollywood Reporter) asks its roundtable guests if they think the upcoming Amanda Knox memoir from HarperCollins will be a success. Robert Gottlieb of Trident Media said with a news driven story, much depends on the type of "excitement" a publisher can create around a story's second telling. "Secondly it depends on what she's put in the book to help make it a national story again."


THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER


It's things like this in societies that make me despair, I mean companies, big ones, like this, the publisher, so they got advice, oh, only then do they stop but not stop fully, when what they've really been doing is help murderers, the truth is that, because the case is not finished yet, and as it stands they are convicted, murderers, only if that gets overturned and that overturning is upheld in the supreme court could they make anything realistic but no, they are in there like sharks, not just them, tearing away at the money, the purse strings, they are not people, they are morons, because they understand nothing, they stop the publishing in Britain, because the advice they have received is that they will be in great danger in Britain of having to pay out not to Knox but in fines, because criminals are not allowed to profit from crime in Britain (and the same must be true in the States, I mean otherwise Mansoin would have become a millionaire), and if, like these, they are convicted criminals, and you help them commit crime, which means, among other things, to put out books, any money you do get will have to be taken off you; it can also be asserted that you conspired to encourage a criminal to do something that is unacceptable to people everywhere but more importantly, totally unacceptable by and according to law.
Meredith's blood wasn't even dry and these creeps all started cashing in, then the final casher inners = the murderers themselves still won't stop the killing, it's like they are sticking virtual knives in the already dead Meredith.

However, in America, it seems certain parties think that there are no rules, that convicted criminals can turn murder into a profitable business line, a range.

I fear they may, somewhere along that line, come unstuck in America too. Who in their right mind wants to allow murderers to profit from murder?


What kind of people clothe these firms? what, did they get a certificate from some online course like the Private Eye online in this case at the start pretending to be Mr-know-it-all when having studied nothing?

I just cannot believe how backward they all seem to be.

The only story out there is that two people conspired with a third person to commit crimes, and Meredith Kercher wound up dead as a result of that, then two of them almost got away scot free, and then as an aside but equally newsworthy, all kinds of weird people lent themselves to the defying of laws, to the defamation of everyone including the murdered woman's family and friends.

That is the real story so maybe Harper Collins ought to go after someone who can write that story, then they'll have a STORY, not this, this is CRAP.

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Last edited by zorba on Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline louiehaha


Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:13 am

Posts: 348

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Literary Agents: Will the Amanda Knox Book Sell? (video)

Quote:
THR (The Hollywood Reporter) asks its roundtable guests if they think the upcoming Amanda Knox memoir from HarperCollins will be a success. Robert Gottlieb of Trident Media said with a news driven story, much depends on the type of "excitement" a publisher can create around a story's second telling. "Secondly it depends on what she's put in the book to help make it a national story again."


THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER


Hey G,

Thanks for posting that!
Here is the uncut hour long version.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/l ... ham-434871

The section on Knox (@31.20) was preceded by a gloomy discussion of advances, how poorly memoirs are doing - Schwarzenegger, Townsend, Stewart - that memoirs actually written by the writer do much better than those written using a collaborator. (Same person who made this point - Kim Witherspoon - later pointed out that yes, Knox has a collaborator.)

A section on Knox/Casey Anthony was cut out of the shortened version on Knox.

All in all they seem pretty gloomy about the prospects of Knox's book without just coming out and directly saying so.

This was the "panel" l-r, didn't catch the names of the two interviewers though:
Jodi Reamer, Writers House
Kim Witherspoon, @kwspoon, Inkwell Management
Robert Gottlieb, Trident Media
Sloan Harris, ICM
Eric Simonoff, WME
Christy Fletcher, Fletcher & Company

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/l ... ham-434871
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I find the mere fact that these people felt the desire to get together to discuss whether the book will be a success very telling. Was there this type discussion about the Jaycee Dugard book? Elizabeth Smart? Obviously, the opinion on whether or not the book will be a financial success is very divided. This does not bode well for Harper Collins, IMO.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Unless Knox admits in her book that she murdered Meredith..then it's just going to be a pack of lies. It will be poor Knox..the victim. Just thinking about her book makes me nauseous.

Never mind how many *good * reviews the groupies put out..word will get out on what a bore the book is.

Harper Collins are going to lose a lot of bucks. Good.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hey when Bremner started reeling off the party lines, it was so redundant, spent, there was no content, it was like a set of words memorized, oh she got found guilty of accusing Patrick Lumumba of murder all because of being questioned for what the Knox Squad would have everyone believe was something like in a Japanese Second World War camp, next they will be saying they brought in an old dentist to drill holes in her teeth and interrogate her. So no matter what happens, that woman still reels of these empty words, not presenting an argument in any realistic way, just a line of progaganda, yes the Jews took all of the money that's why... .... ... they had to become Germany's scapegoat, or Hitler's scapegoat, everything, all of the world's problems was their fault... ... Amanda Knox is a librarian and a GOOD girl she only accused Patrick Lumumba of rape and murder because everyone else was BAD, she didn't mean to do it but it's not her fault, when they brought in the dentist she cracked at the sound of the drill, frrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... frrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I speak, I speak he did it, the black one, young, happy, funny, one child, employed me, then wanted to unemploy me, and employ Meredith Kercher, he did it I saw him. What did you see Ms Knox? I saw him go in that room. What else Ms Knox? Well, I don't like to say this but I do not like the sound of your drill, so here goes, I was with him and he said he wanted her, we just wanted to have a little fun, now, you guess which parts of this are true and who they really applied to. Okay Ms, what else? Drill, fear, I cracked, I said, Lumumba, young, family, kind, musician, funny, I will send you to jail for the rest of your life for something you never did.. by the way, don't think that I do not like you, I like you. [sound of Hitlerian dentist drill] Frrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, frrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. No, ahhhh, stop I tell you more lies. Listen up, He says, I want her, and, anyhow, we all just wanted to have some fun [meaning, sorry we didn't mean to kill her, we were just having a joke and a laugh, oh, rape and murder is not a joke or a laugh, sorry, I liked Patrick]. Don't interrupt my flow, I was getting to the good bits, the bits that are not understandable in Chinese or Arabic, Russian, American or British English. So, he goes in there with her and I hears kinda like screaming ya know.

Hitlerian interrogator: You heard screaming???

Ms Red Riding old guy in the train Hood: Oh hell yeah, I heard screaming alright!!!

Hitlerian wicked interrogator that refused her water, cola or a bun: And what did ya do?

Ms Red Riding old guy in the train Hood: Nothing, weren't my problem, and I thought, maybe it could have been me and it weren't so, I covered my ears and updated my diary

Hitlerian: Then what?

Ms Hood: Then nuffin

Wicked interrogator: Nuffin, how could that be?

Hood: I woke up

Wicked Interrogator: You woke up?

Hood: Sure

Wicked interrogator: Where?

Hood: Duh, at my Italian boyfriend's ... glasses, lazy, spoilt, likes classical music, pretending to be normal, knives and violent porn.. house

Wicked interrogator: But how did ya get there and what did you do to help Meredith Kercher?

Ms Hood: I don't know how I got there, I just woke up there, next question, la la la la (closes ears again) but, I woke up and although I know I knew Meredith Kercher was being murdered, I knew nothing, as I went home somehow, though I don't remember that, and just woke up, I don't know did I speak, did I say hi hello boyfriend, Meredith was just getting murdered, better get some sleep, I don't know if I said that or if I getched him and and we went back later to clean up for the murderer, who I worked for, I don't know that, but maybe I thought I'd better help my boss out, clean up for him, but later I found out actually, my boss had never ever even been in that house so I must have been mistaken, now, where were we, oh yeah, drill, ahhhhhhh, torturers, it's all your fault that my tale is not understandable in any human language, frrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... frrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Not the dril...please, I want a sandwich

Hitlerian interrogator: No sandwich, no nothing for you, it's now 30 days we've been interrogating you and you had better keep talking even though we know you are going to say we gave you no lubricant for the mouth

Ms Hood: I want drink, I want shopping, I want joke and laugh and a pair of drawers from the designer store

Hitlerian interrogator: So, then... what?

Ms Hood: Oh well it ain't me, it might be him though, I do remember seeing blood on his hands at dinner, but, maybe that was just the fish n all, I don't remember if he left that night, I cannot remember me arriving, I don't know if I arrived, ignored him then went to bed and then, in the middle of the night he sneaked out, I don't know that, I'm just putting it out there, I remember we ate breakfast, then I probably went to shower in a freezing cold house with the front door open, which would make it easy for any burglar to get in and rape me, but, though I thought mmm, what's this blood all over the place, I was humming and singing and doing my shower.

Hitlerian interrogator: Right, cut, stop, give her a drink now, time interview stopped 5.03, that's a rap, and that's a total of 4 months of interviewing without a drink, give her a drink now, give her a bun, give her another slap up the head she likes it. Okay Miss you can piss off now. We believe every word you said, sorry for any inconvenience, that guy you accused is BAD, BAD, BAD.

Ms Hood: Yeah he bad, bad, bad, he fired me, nobody fires me, that'll be the last time he fires anyone, nobody does that to MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, don't send me to jail for 30 years later or I'll have to find multiple persons to blame, like you all.

Interrogator: Don't get hysterical Miss, we said we believed you, please get out of here

Hood: No, I must stay, for I want to help you find the real murderers

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
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Last edited by zorba on Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Still Waiting to Be Heard? Amanda Knox memoir put on hold in UK over libel law fears
By Nick Clark
Friday 12 April 2013
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 69553.html

"...
Ms Knox's Waiting to be Heard is set for publication in America, Canada and Australia at the end of the month.
It was also due for release on 9 May in the UK, but lawyers stepped in due to fears that it could fall foul of the country's stringent libel laws.
..."


Last edited by Ava on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Ava


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Posts: 943

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox 'Memoir' on Hold
By Chelsea Hoffman
April 12, 2013 01:10 AM EDT
http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.acti ... 4981868833

"...
Wouldn't potential libel issues with a "memoir" render it potentially inaccurate? The UK has stringent libel laws, and Foxy Knoxy's book may potentially violate those laws, which indicates that there are a lot of claims within the pages that may offend some people.
It doesn't make sense that she's still going through with the release of the book considering she is being retried. Her "memoir" isn't even finished if she ends up convicted in the murder of Meredith Kercher (again). Isn't the book supposed to be about her innocence and journey from prison to freedom to absolution?"
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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

If HC won't be releasing Knox's book in the UK, why is it on sale with Amazon.co.uk I wonder? In hard cover, kindle and audio book formats. Personally I haven't stopped crying since I found the news out that I won't be able to obtain a copy of Knox's book in this country, how else will my poor fellow countrymen find out Amanda's truth? With any luck, some web fella in Amazon has missed the memo and .co.uk will sell it resulting in a massive libel suit in the High Court. UK libel laws would have that book for breakfast. From the German version online, I can find a lie per page so far and that's using google translate. I'd be interested to hear from any lawyers who can advise on cross EU libel suits as we have complimentary laws across many legal areas. I imagine that if there is any cross border collaboration on this then the German taster release might be a tad premature too.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Ava wrote:
So far, it looks like it's mainly about introducing the Amanda being Amanda myth. She used to 'walk like an Egyptian' in the streets of Seattle, sing loudly in between classes at school and smoke grass in college. Then she went to Italy to grow up and develop her personality...


Hi, Ava. Quite a complicated mess they've worked themselves into, IMO. As far as guilt or innocence is concerned, it was and will always be a matter of facts and evidence presented in the Italian courts. As far as the creation of America's Sweetheart in the world of PR and book sales, it seems to me to be a massive disconnect. Her handlers have kept her so far out of sight of the American public, she now has to sell herself through the pages of a book. IMO, she would have been in a better position to sell her story had she been up front and personal, accessible and knowable during her time back in the states. People here have no flesh-and-blood, 3 dimensional, likeable human being that they have attached to. It's not surprising that the price of her book is dropping as we speak.

It's actually quite hard to picture her acting natural in front of a camera, isn't it. Until now, we've seen her performances at court and her Oscar acceptance speech at the airport. The interview will be interesting in that regard...
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Offline louiehaha


Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:13 am

Posts: 348

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

black one, young, happy, funny, one child, employed me, then wanted to unemploy me, and employ Meredith

That was great! You need to do the whole cast.

Guede: most, beautiful, black man, I ever met, partied, downstairs, bars, throws, jumps, kebobs, non-flusher, don’t know him, don't know his name even, never even phoned him, never ever heard of him, never met him, don’t even know Rudy’s name, but never invited him over, this Rudy, not even once...
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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Still Waiting to Be Heard? Amanda Knox memoir put on hold in UK over libel law fears
By Nick Clark
Friday 12 April 2013
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 69553.html

"...
Ms Knox's Waiting to be Heard is set for publication in America, Canada and Australia at the end of the month.
It was also due for release on 9 May in the UK, but lawyers stepped in due to fears that it could fall foul of the country's stringent libel laws.
..."


Good find Ava. What is delicious about that article is the fact that the Indy is deleting Michelle Moore's more mental comments. Ah dearest Michelle, she really is, to coin a phrase, two stops short of Dagenham.... (non-Brits, look at a tube map)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
black one, young, happy, funny, one child, employed me, then wanted to unemploy me, and employ Meredith

That was great! You need to do the whole cast.

Guede: most, beautiful, black man, I ever met, partied, downstairs, bars, throws, jumps, kebobs, non-flusher, don’t know him, don't know his name even, never even phoned him, never ever heard of him, never met him, don’t even know Rudy’s name, but never invited him over, this Rudy, not even once...



Will do, will do, Knox, potty, librarian, likes riding in trains with old chaps/fellas/guys/men and reading in the toilet, don't know nuffin, was there, wasn't there, remembers, don't remember, thinks satantic verses a song is, never seen Guede, not even in court, where she said oh him, himmmmmm, do I know him

Soillecito, turnip cruncher, honorable chap, wants to become a knight went to England to offer his services to queen Elizabeth the 1st

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
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Offline Napia5


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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

daisysteiner wrote:
Ava wrote:
Still Waiting to Be Heard? Amanda Knox memoir put on hold in UK over libel law fears
By Nick Clark
Friday 12 April 2013
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 69553.html

"...
Ms Knox's Waiting to be Heard is set for publication in America, Canada and Australia at the end of the month.
It was also due for release on 9 May in the UK, but lawyers stepped in due to fears that it could fall foul of the country's stringent libel laws.
..."


Good find Ava. What is delicious about that article is the fact that the Indy is deleting Michelle Moore's more mental comments. Ah dearest Michelle, she really is, to coin a phrase, two stops short of Dagenham.... (non-Brits, look at a tube map)


Hi, daisy. I'm a non-Brit, so I googled Dagenham. This popped up.

http://www.nelft.nhs.uk/services/adult_bd

hbc)
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Offline Napia5


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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Ava wrote:
So far, it looks like it's mainly about introducing the Amanda being Amanda myth. She used to 'walk like an Egyptian' in the streets of Seattle, sing loudly in between classes at school and smoke grass in college. Then she went to Italy to grow up and develop her personality...


Hi, Ava. Quite a complicated mess they've worked themselves into, IMO. As far as guilt or innocence is concerned, it was and will always be a matter of facts and evidence presented in the Italian courts. As far as the creation of America's Sweetheart in the world of PR and book sales, it seems to me to be a massive disconnect. Her handlers have kept her so far out of sight of the American public, she now has to sell herself through the pages of a book. IMO, she would have been in a better position to sell her story had she been up front and personal, accessible and knowable during her time back in the states. People here have no flesh-and-blood, 3 dimensional, likeable human being that they have attached to. It's not surprising that the price of her book is dropping as we speak.

It's actually quite hard to picture her acting natural in front of a camera, isn't it. Until now, we've seen her performances at court and her Oscar acceptance speech at the airport. The interview will be interesting in that regard...


IMO, this exclusive interview is the biggest "shoot yourself in the foot" moment I've seen in a long time.
According to everything I have read about the early stages of reporting, Knox was treated sympathetically by the American Media in hopes of getting interviews with her and her family. This incentive is now gone. The major media outlets are no longer vying for 'the story'. Why would they now want to grant a continuing string of sympathetic coverage? Certainly not to increase interest in the ABC interview. That's competition. Wendy Murphy has already gone publoic with her view on guilt. I'm predicting a great deal of this type backlash when the interview is aired.
And when the SC report is released.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
louiehaha wrote:
black one, young, happy, funny, one child, employed me, then wanted to unemploy me, and employ Meredith

That was great! You need to do the whole cast.

Guede: most, beautiful, black man, I ever met, partied, downstairs, bars, throws, jumps, kebobs, non-flusher, don’t know him, don't know his name even, never even phoned him, never ever heard of him, never met him, don’t even know Rudy’s name, but never invited him over, this Rudy, not even once...



Will do, will do, Knox, potty, librarian, likes riding in trains with old chaps/fellas/guys/men and reading in the toilet, don't know nuffin, was there, wasn't there, remembers, don't remember, thinks satantic verses a song is, never seen Guede, not even in court, where she said oh him, himmmmmm, do I know him

Soillecito, turnip cruncher, honorable chap, wants to become a knight went to England to offer his services to queen Elizabeth the 1st


Is 'potty' the same as 'quirky'?
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox book won't be published in UK
By Nick Squires, in Rome
3:02PM BST 12 Apr 2013
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... in-UK.html

"...
The publisher fears it could run into legal difficulties in light of the fact that a retrial has been ordered for Miss Knox and her Italian ex-boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito.
There are also concerns about an ongoing parallel case in which Italian police are suing Miss Knox and her parents for defamation after they claimed she was physically assaulted by officers during a grueling all-night interrogation after the murder.
...
The company will wait until every legal stage in Italy is exhausted before it considers releasing the book.
..."
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Offline guermantes

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Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 am

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

A foretaste of what is to come:

Attachment:
Amanda Knox Interviewed by Trevor Day-1.JPG


via Twitter -->> https://twitter.com/trevorrday

http://instagram.com/p/YA56LuHgll/

Quote:
Trevor Day is from Seattle, Washington. After graduating from the Art Institute of Seattle with an Associates degree in video production in 2012, he has worked in the industry & web development for independent projects and major companies. In January he was hired at Amazon as an editor & videographer. [http://www.trevorday.info]


http://www.linkedin.com/in/trevorrday


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Offline zorba


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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
louiehaha wrote:
black one, young, happy, funny, one child, employed me, then wanted to unemploy me, and employ Meredith

That was great! You need to do the whole cast.

Guede: most, beautiful, black man, I ever met, partied, downstairs, bars, throws, jumps, kebobs, non-flusher, don’t know him, don't know his name even, never even phoned him, never ever heard of him, never met him, don’t even know Rudy’s name, but never invited him over, this Rudy, not even once...



Will do, will do, Knox, potty, librarian, likes riding in trains with old chaps/fellas/guys/men and reading in the toilet, don't know nuffin, was there, wasn't there, remembers, don't remember, thinks satantic verses a song is, never seen Guede, not even in court, where she said oh him, himmmmmm, do I know him

Sollecito, turnip cruncher, honorable chap, wants to become a knight went to England to offer his services to queen Elizabeth the 1st


Is 'potty' the same as 'quirky'?



Hi Naps,

No, not the same, potty is something, a word that conjures up a certain type of craziness, it is I think more or less the same as saying, the man is a raving lunatic, while pointing that out to a third person, or more persons, actually it is far too lightweight, and the characters in question deserve far harsher terms and words.
I won't list them.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
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Offline zorba


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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Links...

Well many I treat like I would people who have a contagious deadly disease, one in the morning is enough to ruin my day, I looked then at the Independent, and it's just so exhausting, the atmosphere, and it can only be one or two fanatics who do that, like go on every single place and keep churning out that nonsense, the one was saying well, there is still an appeal, like against the ruling on Lumumba, was so irritating, lobe to knock him out, but as far as I understood Knox cannot appeal, that is impossible, that is finished, she is guilty of accusing an innocent man of murder and rape.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
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Offline Napia5


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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
louiehaha wrote:
black one, young, happy, funny, one child, employed me, then wanted to unemploy me, and employ Meredith

That was great! You need to do the whole cast.

Guede: most, beautiful, black man, I ever met, partied, downstairs, bars, throws, jumps, kebobs, non-flusher, don’t know him, don't know his name even, never even phoned him, never ever heard of him, never met him, don’t even know Rudy’s name, but never invited him over, this Rudy, not even once...



Will do, will do, Knox, potty, librarian, likes riding in trains with old chaps/fellas/guys/men and reading in the toilet, don't know nuffin, was there, wasn't there, remembers, don't remember, thinks satantic verses a song is, never seen Guede, not even in court, where she said oh him, himmmmmm, do I know him

Sollecito, turnip cruncher, honorable chap, wants to become a knight went to England to offer his services to queen Elizabeth the 1st


Is 'potty' the same as 'quirky'?



Hi Naps,

No, not the same, potty is something, a word that conjures up a certain type of craziness, it is I think more or less the same as saying, the man is a raving lunatic, while pointing that out to a third person, or more persons, actually it is far too lightweight, and the characters in question deserve far harsher terms and words.
I won't list them.


No need for a list. I get the point.
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Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

http://www.cdt.ch/ticino-e-regioni/cron ... sso-b.html

google translate
Quote:
Sollecito defends his B permit
He claims that he never amounted false - Upon Lugano: "I feel good here"

A haven away from the crowd, but also the point of departure for a new life, a place to stay. Lugano and Switzerland this mean for Raffaele Sollecito, the twenty-nine accused of the murder of Meredith Kercher in Perugia six years ago. Since we reached by telephone, the young man defends obtaining the residence permit "B" explaining that he never amounted false things about his legal situation. This comes after the news that the State is examining whether there are any grounds for revocation. Sollecito said to be comfortable in Lugano. "In Switzerland, I had some friends and I found a humus that I liked it, because the people here, in general, is very discreet. Then I found an environment away from the noise. If I was greeted well? Yes, always." The young live in the city permanently, although this time it moves a lot for work. The idea is to stay? "Yes, I want to stay."
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Ava wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Ava wrote:
So far, it looks like it's mainly about introducing the Amanda being Amanda myth. She used to 'walk like an Egyptian' in the streets of Seattle, sing loudly in between classes at school and smoke grass in college. Then she went to Italy to grow up and develop her personality...


Hi, Ava. Quite a complicated mess they've worked themselves into, IMO. As far as guilt or innocence is concerned, it was and will always be a matter of facts and evidence presented in the Italian courts. As far as the creation of America's Sweetheart in the world of PR and book sales, it seems to me to be a massive disconnect. Her handlers have kept her so far out of sight of the American public, she now has to sell herself through the pages of a book. IMO, she would have been in a better position to sell her story had she been up front and personal, accessible and knowable during her time back in the states. People here have no flesh-and-blood, 3 dimensional, likeable human being that they have attached to. It's not surprising that the price of her book is dropping as we speak.

It's actually quite hard to picture her acting natural in front of a camera, isn't it. Until now, we've seen her performances at court and her Oscar acceptance speech at the airport. The interview will be interesting in that regard...


IMO, this exclusive interview is the biggest "shoot yourself in the foot" moment I've seen in a long time.
According to everything I have read about the early stages of reporting, Knox was treated sympathetically by the American Media in hopes of getting interviews with her and her family. This incentive is now gone. The major media outlets are no longer vying for 'the story'. Why would they now want to grant a continuing string of sympathetic coverage? Certainly not to increase interest in the ABC interview. That's competition. Wendy Murphy has already gone publoic with her view on guilt. I'm predicting a great deal of this type backlash when the interview is aired.
And when the SC report is released.

I hope you're right, Napia.
AK looks pretty much at ease to me in that picture guermantes posted. But it's only one screen shot, let's wait and see...
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:31 pm   Post subject: ON CURT KNOX   

Sigh: Here's the poster called "Denver" on Ground Report, AMANDA KNOX: Curt Knox's Payment to Supporters:

According to him, "Clarification: Curt Knox does NOT pay a penny to any of his millions of supporters!"

As we already know through our investigation of Sfarzo~Gate, Curt Knox is reported to have contacted and hired the PR firm Gogerty Marriott to represent Amanda Knox, but since then:

- Was not seen at any of the parties around Seattle hosting Raffaele Sollecito or Frank Sfarzo.
- Did not attend the Vashon Island whoop-de-do of the Amanda Knox supporters and internet brigades.
- Has not contributed a penny or any form of support to the said brigades and truffle salesmen, er, Italian reporter.

That would have been Chris Mellas, Judge Heavey, and the assorted FOA but not Curt Knox who funneled tens of thousands of dollars to Frank Sfarzo. If the other Internet Guerrillas work for free, good, but please, don't misdirect.

Aside from that, the usual Denver rant:

Quote:
..Abuse of Power by a Malevolent Narcissist..


He means PM Mignini, though some of us might feel Amanda Knox's attack on Meredith Kercher was a power exercise by a "malevolent narcissist", just saying.

Quote:
..Prosecutor Mignini allegedly had Secret Negations with the Sollecito family for Raffaele to perjure himself for a suspended sentence..


Ahem, but if he means Raffaele Sollecito's allegations about his family lawyer Luca Maori conducting secret negotiations with Mignini, then his own father called him a liar about that on Italian TV, so do lay that to rest, please?

Quote:
..We now know the tapes of Amanda's initial interview on November 5th, 2007 were made and partially translated into English long before the first trial of 2009..


So, where are those tapes, Denver? Your guy Frank Sfarzo is the source of that rumour and has been promising them to the gullible for many years now. Since he was able to obtain confidential information from his contacts within the Questura as early as November 02, 2007, why didn't he produce them before, when it could have done some good? When Cassazione ruled on the admissibility of her statements way back when? Hmm.

Aside from that, if you want to say Curt Knox hasn't paid you a penny, cool. I'd look to the disbursements from ABC and Harper Collins which have gone to various offshore trusts, to see where the millions went, and if you got none, you and 'millions' of Amanda's supporters are happy to know you're helping her.

But I still want to know: who paid for Frank Sfarzo's new car?
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Offline SomeAlibi


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Just to say a big thank you to Ergon for his posts from the appeal, for the excellent reporting and incurring the costs for all of us to understand what it was like there.

I am still trying to manage my feelings down about Hellman's admission that he didn't look at any of the evidence other than the bra-clasp and the knife. That he doesn't understand reasonable doubt. That he thinks that Raffaele's mere presence in the cottage in a week, in different rooms could have resulted in his DNA flying onto the bra-clasp by a "puff of wind".... all from his own words.... it is absolutely beyond imagination to me.

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What it is is spin lent credence because it's from the mouth of a lawyer. We've seen how much gravitas they can carry merely by saying something is or is not so when often they are speaking as much rubbish as anyone else.


Last edited by SomeAlibi on Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi SA. Amen to that. Let Hellmann talk I would say. It is not very common I think for a judge to comment. He already did it right after the acquittal and now again. Maybe he feels he has to defend himself. Maybe he feels a bit more. Maybe he feels his 'game' is up and there might be legal consequences. I doubt it would ever happen, but it sure would make a lot of sense to me :mrgreen: I think there is a bigger chance that there will be some legal consequences for the 'independent experts', C&V. We will see. For now I am just waiting patiently for the SC report.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

SomeAlibi wrote:
Just to say a big thank you to Ergon for his posts from the appeal, for the execellent reporting and incurring the costs for all of us to understand what it was like there.

I am still trying to manage my feelings down about Hellman's admission that he didn't look at any of the evidence other than the bra-clasp and the knife. That he doesn't understand reasonable doubt. That he thinks that Raffaele's mere presence in the cottage in a week, in different rooms could have resulted in his DNA flying onto the bra-clasp by a "puff of wind".... all from his own words.... it is absolutely beyond imagination to me.


You're welcome, Some Alibi, and a big Thank You and H/T to you and The Machine for your sheer doggedness in pursuing the case. Without your efforts we would have understood a whole lot less.

Hellmann saw only what he was told to see, imho. He stretched 'reasonable doubt' beyond anything a normal person might find reasonable.

I only wish I had more time in Perugia to pursue the many evidence trails that have been thrown up, often in an attempt to confuse, those who would like to get to the bottom of this fascinating case. But I was focused on two things: MOF and Cassazione.

I'm in this for the long haul till justice is done, so may take some time to put together my thoughts on Perugia. Let's also note what Ms Knox has to say in her book and TV appearance. But I was able to see for myself, how Massei and Mignini got it right, (minor quibbles aside) and how strong the case really is.

And for all those who fight for Meredith Kercher and her family, how much more there is yet to come. Watch this space.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox book release postponed in UK

Waiting to be Heard will be published as planned in US, Canada and Australia but legal concerns delay British launch


THE GUARDIAN

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Losing sight of the real victim: the Amanda Knox re-trial


EXEPOSE

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I think this Alex person writing on the Independent and in the comments section under the article Michael posted the link to, is all one person, one who has been doing this all along all over the place, under all kinds of IDs, the dictatorial tone reminds me of Fischer, and I bet it is him.

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Last edited by zorba on Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Nobody


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Still struggling to define 'potty'?

Well, this site is clearly 'potty' - has not been emptied either. Talk about stink! What a disgusting, malicious group of people congregate here!

Wow! That feels better, I can breathe again. Just hope ... does not continue to give me all that sage advice about how to live a successful life.

Frank, don't get your hopes up, OK. Sorry you forgot your sleeping pills here.


picture of a pumpkin
You have been Warned by a Moderator
Reason: Consider this your first formal warning. Constructive criticism is welcome. Gratuitous insults and trolling is not! PMF is not the place for drama queens and attention seekers.


picture of a pumpkin
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Details: Edited by me to remove gratuitous naming of someone for reasons that seem inexplicable to me.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Do you feel better for getting that off your chest, Peter?

Perhaps you'll feel more comfortable around those that like to malign the Kercher family and smear the Italians and insult those that post here, on a daily basis, since clearly you don't seem to think that is "disgusting", "stinky", "potty" or "malicious" since you never complained to them about it.

Just because you have nothing constructive whatsoever to add here, it doesn't mean that you have to set yourself up as a troll!!!

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Bob Graham has written a long article for the MAIL ONLINE.

It's the same old stuff, the same old way, the same shrill melodrama. We are used to seeing hyper-emotional displays of pleading for support of Knox's innocence by now.

Quote:
The book’s description of her four years spent in Capanne Prison, set in farmland a half-hour drive south of Perugia, will be harrowing, including a detailed account of sexual harassment by a senior guard and confrontations with aggressive fellow inmates.

She will tell how a female inmate repeatedly offered to start a lesbian affair with her. And how, soon after her arrival at the jail, she was told, falsely, that she was HIV-positive.

The alleged sexual harassment was at the hands of one of Capanne’s senior guards, Raffaele Argiro, who was accused of sexually assaulting another female prisoner and has now retired.


There are no real facts, only the writer's opinions and he's trying to pass them off as facts.

Quote:
My investigations have made it clear to me that throughout the entire case the level of investigation was sloppy and at times downright substandard.

The new trial will be handled by a different prosecutor, who must now examine the original investigation in detail and provide answers to the contradictions and unsatisfactory explanations provided in past trials.


Says who?
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Theoretically, he could have an out. It would require his fabrication of an entirely new story wherein he was not involved in the actual murder, but in acquiescence to Knox's persuasive pleas, was only involved in the staging. That he has not come forward with this new 'truth' until now is due to a misplaced loyalty and sympathy to Knox. He would have to throw Knox under the bus.

From the time of his arrest until his appeal (was it?), Sollecito maintained that Knox wasn't with him when the murder was committed. Knox stated she was with Sollecito; that was her only alibi. Exactly how long did he maintain that. His lawyer at one point, restated that in a higher court. This was revised, exactly when? How was that revision explained? Sollecitos original accusation, that Knox wasn't with him (the accusation which caused her to automatically accuse Lumumba), was maintained for months or years? Can't be explained by "memory lapse", confusion or duress. His lawyer stated it. Could he ultimately, if backed into a corner (he could easily be found culpable), revert to that version of events?


Last edited by ttrroonniicc on Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

(Another) Voluminous Pack of Lies from Steve Moore:

http://gmancasefile.com/blog.html
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yes I imagine someone who provides funds for what is, clearly to people with common sense, a liar, and then has his own hand bitten shouldn't be crying over spilt milk; malicious is murdering someone, and if people are angry about the injustice of the murderers using the media and defamation to get out of it, then that is actually called justified reaction to obvious CRIMINAL BEHAVIOUR.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Couldn't stomach the Graham lies, you know already the tired old lines such a person uses, so I looked at the title and his name then left.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
(Another) Voluminous Pack of Lies from Steve Moore:

http://gmancasefile.com/blog.html



More then that, it's pure libel. He's actually accusing the prosecutor and police of committing crimes here (lying about evidence and perjury).

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
guermantes wrote:
(Another) Voluminous Pack of Lies from Steve Moore:

http://gmancasefile.com/blog.html



More then that, it's pure libel. He's actually accusing the prosecutor and police of committing crimes here (lying about evidence and perjury).



Yes, saw him taking part in some debate, at some kind of America institute, it was related to something in South America I believe, to me seemed like he was trying to get a foot in the door somewhere/anywhere he could, where they'll pay him lots of money. What was so ridiculous, was, how in the middle of this rant of his in relation to the South American case, he suddenly started on about Knox, as though he just assumed everyone there would know all about that, would agree with him too, I mean you'd think someone in the FBI, someone who had been in it anyhow, would have more brains, but he might as well have put award winning (or whining depends how you see it) wifey in there and gone for a pint.

I really think they said well, we cannot use you anymore, retire or you're fired. Maybe he started taking wifey along as hostage communicator.

Wifey: Now listen, we knows you is in there n all, you can come out and we'll kill ya, or you can stay in there and we'll kill ya, so come on, be sensible.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
(Another) Voluminous Pack of Lies from Steve Moore:

http://gmancasefile.com/blog.html



***************WARNING!******************

Put down your coffee cups before you read my comment. Save your keyboards.

Steve Moore: WHERE ARE YOUR LINKS????? You know you're in trouble when I start asking for them.
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Offline Nobody


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Well, Saint Michael, I did ask you some time ago, to remove me from this disgusting board and you made every effort to delay. I have no idea why you delayed my request, other than that the adrenalin of shooting down Sfarzo had not yet dissipated. So, this decision has been in your hands some time and, for unknown reasons, you delayed it. So, it is only right that I call you on it.

I realize that the recent SC decision has lifted your spirits and you may yet destroy the lives of two innocent young people while ignoring 'good ol' Rudy'. Amazing!

As to this board, (excluding Zorba) I think there are good people here, however, badly led astray. And please, Tamale/..../Bettina ...etc, spare me with your e-mails. They now automatically go in to the 'dumpster' anyway, thus freeing your time for 'productive' endeavors.

I think there are a lot of good people on this board (Sorry Zorba, you don't qualify) and I would love to see all that positive energy re-directed to good causes. There certainly are enough issues waiting for your support. Try 'Doctor's Without Borders' for a start. Your spirit will be richly rewarded. Trust me on this one. End of sermon .....

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This Post has been edited by a Moderator
Details: To remove second gratuitous posting of other member's real name.

Sigh. You were welcomed here, Nobody, not because of your contribution to Sfarzo~Gate but because people, everywhere, are essentially good. As I already explained to you, we do not have the facility on this board to 'remove' people, and all you had to do was stop writing, yet here you are again, with so many public farewells and exits. I note also that you never explained why you believed in the 'kids' innocence, but that was your prerogative.

I see that despite your previous warning, you persisted in publishing Tamale's real name. An e-mail asking her not to write you would suffice, but no, you had to use PMF as your message board. Sigh.


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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Peter, please post your thoughts on the innocence of the two 'kids'. How did you arrive at this conclusion?
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nobody wrote:
Well, Saint Michael, I did ask you some time ago, to remove me from this disgusting board and you made every effort to delay. I have no idea why you delayed my request, other than that the adrenalin of shooting down Sfarzo had not yet dissipated. So, this decision has been in your hands some time and, for unknown reasons, you delayed it. So, it is only right that I call you on it.

I realize that the recent SC decision has lifted your spirits and you may yet destroy the lives of two innocent young people while ignoring 'good ol' Rudy'. Amazing!

As to this board, (excluding Zorba) I think there are good people here, however, badly led astray. And please, Tamale/Kathleen/Bettina ...etc, spare me with your e-mails. They now automatically go in to the 'dumpster' anyway, thus freeing your time for 'productive' endeavors.

I think there are a lot of good people on this board (Sorry Zorba, you don't qualify) and I would love to see all that positive energy re-directed to good causes. There certainly are enough issues waiting for your support. Try 'Doctor's Without Borders' for a start. Your spirit will be richly rewarded. Trust me on this one. End of sermon .....


We are a group of astute people on this board and I believe your attack at this time is pretty transparent. You need a test or pass to rejoin the Fischer site. What better way then to post an attack and have the approval of the 'today at PMF ' regulars? No need for that Peter,no one tried to convert you here and hopefully your 'friends' over there will take you back. As for us we have more important things to focus on. I am disappointed that you needed to include a reference to your friend Tamale for the benefit of the IIP. Guess you wanted it public or you would have sent her a private message.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
(Another) Voluminous Pack of Lies from Steve Moore:

http://gmancasefile.com/blog.html


I see that ol' Steve is using the "hate" canard again. Of course, having parlayed his infiltration of the Aryan Nations into a business that provides services to any group that feels itself 'hated', I can see why the Amandii use that term so often.

Next, they'll be calling us anti-Amandites, sigh.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I just want to say, in regard to the "destroy the lives of two innocent young people while ignoring 'good ol' Rudy'. Amazing!" crack.

I get a bit sick of this. FOAKers are always accusing us of being soft on Rudy and firing demands at us on why we don't focus on him. Now listen and listen good...Rudy Guede has been CONVICTED and SENTENCED and is SERVING his sentence for his part in the murder of Meredith Kercher! Therefore, we do not need to focus on Rudy because justice has been done in his case, irrespective of whether you personally feel his sentence is long enough or not. The same can not be said, yet, about Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. But it will be. And once it is and justice in their case has been done, we will happily go on to forget about them as we have done with Guede and will instead, as will Meredith's family, focus on remembering Meredith. Dig?

nobody wrote:
I think there are a lot of good people on this board (Sorry Zorba, you don't qualify) and I would love to see all that positive energy re-directed to good causes. There certainly are enough issues waiting for your support. Try 'Doctor's Without Borders' for a start. Your spirit will be richly rewarded. Trust me on this one. End of sermon .....


Why don't you follow your own excellent advice, Peter? Heal thyself, doctor!

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

malvern wrote:
Nobody wrote:
Well, Saint Michael, I did ask you some time ago, to remove me from this disgusting board and you made every effort to delay. I have no idea why you delayed my request, other than that the adrenalin of shooting down Sfarzo had not yet dissipated. So, this decision has been in your hands some time and, for unknown reasons, you delayed it. So, it is only right that I call you on it.

I realize that the recent SC decision has lifted your spirits and you may yet destroy the lives of two innocent young people while ignoring 'good ol' Rudy'. Amazing!

As to this board, (excluding Zorba) I think there are good people here, however, badly led astray. And please, Tamale/Kathleen/Bettina ...etc, spare me with your e-mails. They now automatically go in to the 'dumpster' anyway, thus freeing your time for 'productive' endeavors.

I think there are a lot of good people on this board (Sorry Zorba, you don't qualify) and I would love to see all that positive energy re-directed to good causes. There certainly are enough issues waiting for your support. Try 'Doctor's Without Borders' for a start. Your spirit will be richly rewarded. Trust me on this one. End of sermon .....


We are a group of astute people on this board and I believe your attack at this time is pretty transparent. You need a test or pass to rejoin the Fischer site. What better way then to post an attack and have the approval of the 'today at PMF ' regulars? No need for that Peter,no one tried to convert you here and hopefully your 'friends' over there will take you back. As for us we have more important things to focus on. I am disappointed that you needed to include a reference to your friend Tamale for the benefit of the IIP. Guess you wanted it public or you would have sent her a private message.


Exactly.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
guermantes wrote:
(Another) Voluminous Pack of Lies from Steve Moore:

http://gmancasefile.com/blog.html



***************WARNING!******************

Put down your coffee cups before you read my comment. Save your keyboards.

Steve Moore: WHERE ARE YOUR LINKS????? You know you're in trouble when I start asking for them.


The wikipedia warriors on that board might well want to explain to Steve "The Law Of Diminishing Returns" :)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

o dear THE biting cynicism of ye olde wise one, really hurts, I've called for counselling, sorry PETER, please forgive me, I won't make fun of you anymore, oh please, please, I cry, I cry a Niagra Falls, oh the pain, singled out, was it because my sense of smell is better than that of other peace-loving folk, oh dear, I could smell you, is that my fault, from a mile away, I could smell shit, and there, first you started on Cape, then you private messaged me and started advising me, yes, advice from a fool who paid for a charlatan to undermine a murder case, just as you did and do you dearest olde fool. If I be your pal will you pay for me too?

Zorba's dancing tune

Peter piper picked a pickled pepper then he went home to bed
Peter piper picked a pickled pepper then the contents of his wallet he did shed
Oh jolly Peter, the universe is yours
Except for when your adopted child is sat about all day in his olde drawers

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

max wrote:
http://www.cdt.ch/ticino-e-regioni/cronaca/81585/sollecito-difende-il-suo-permesso-b.html

google translate
Quote:
Sollecito defends his B permit
He claims that he never amounted false - Upon Lugano: "I feel good here"

A haven away from the crowd, but also the point of departure for a new life, a place to stay. Lugano and Switzerland this mean for Raffaele Sollecito, the twenty-nine accused of the murder of Meredith Kercher in Perugia six years ago. Since we reached by telephone, the young man defends obtaining the residence permit "B" explaining that he never amounted false things about his legal situation. This comes after the news that the State is examining whether there are any grounds for revocation. Sollecito said to be comfortable in Lugano. "In Switzerland, I had some friends and I found a humus that I liked it, because the people here, in general, is very discreet. Then I found an environment away from the noise. If I was greeted well? Yes, always." The young live in the city permanently, although this time it moves a lot for work. The idea is to stay? "Yes, I want to stay."


Thanks max. More on this from Tom Kington in the Telegraph:

Quote:
"I already had friends in Switzerland and I like the atmosphere here because people, in general, are discreet," Sollecito told Corriere del Ticino.

Sollecito, who has moved to Lugano, said he had not concealed his ongoing legal woes in Italy while applying for and receiving residency and would now consider living there for life.

His father, Francesco Sollecito, told The Daily Telegraph that despite settling down in Switzerland, his son would be returning for his second appeal, which could be held this year.


THE TELEGRAPH
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Guermantes quoting The Telegraph wrote:
His father, Francesco Sollecito, told The Daily Telegraph that despite settling down in Switzerland, his son would be returning for his second appeal, which could be held this year.


Yeah, right. We've heard promises like these before. Does everyone remember how before each court hearing and then before each trial the Sollecito family or/and his lawyers always promised that Raffaele would take the stand in his defence? Look what all those promises amounted to. Their promises are worth squat.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Google Translate:

If Meredith, Amanda Knox: harassed by prison guard
'
The bad reputation of Perugia, Amanda hits hard again harassed by prison guard
In her book that has netted her 4 million dollars back to the curse of Amanda in Perugia. After speaking evil of magistrates, policemen, and other cities, now claims to have been molested .....



If Meredith, Amanda Knox: harassed by prison guard
'
You again. The Curse of Perugia both as image and as media attention to Perugia. Her: Amanda Knox. The beautiful American, a little 'fatal and a little' bambinona before re-examined the new appeals process on the death of Meredith Kercher in Florence - after the Supreme Court overturned the acquittal in Perugia - wanted to once again "curse" yet more Perugia. And so, after magistrates bad, a city of drunkards, ugly and dirty cops who beat (you will not be mistaken with those of his own house in Seattle?) And more, she wanted to shoot zero also on the prison system of Tabernacles.

Yeah that was missing was the usual average Italian who "wants to do all the defenseless women." And so the blonde Seattle - we gemmellati with this city .... that does not love us - in advance of her book to € 3 million (to write .....) wrote that she had been harassed by a prison guard: "he was obsessed with sex ... made ​​me explicit questions, I was so surprised and shocked that at times I thought I did not understand what he was saying." The agent replied that he had with Amanda conversations about sex, but stating that she was always starting the conversation.


RAFFAELE REMINDER - Luckily shooting at Perugia there was also the incident Raffaele Sollecito, the other accused of the murder of Meredith Kercer. Despite a national magazine has commented on his photo, considered disturbing, Set on the Facebook profile. Among those there are also images of his return to the capital in November 2012. Photos of Perugia in the evening with the fog which for many was a message of hatred, contempt and obscurantism. Also for the week. But not to Sollecito: "I have bad memories of the city itself ...".



PERUGIA TODAY

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Another attempt, wrote this the other day then, as I had just installed IE 10 somehow it mucked up and disappeared.

What I wanted to say is, when I write about Hitlerian interrogators, it has nothing to do with ordinary people, Germans or an others, as in every place, almost any place, there have been awful persons.

Using such awful people in scenarios is meant to typify a certain type of person/persons.

I mean the concentration camps were invented by the British in South Africa if I am correct.
I'm British but not blindly patriotic so if a thing is real I'll say it no matter where it came from; to be proud of the spot on this planet that you just so happened to get born, in my view is ridiculous.

Pride in something you invented, okay, but this false pride I hate it.
So when I try to show how ridiculous it is to accuse Italian police in the way Knox, her family and also Sollecito and his family have, I use such total horrors like Hitler or Manson to show how ridiculous it is what Knox has accused everyone in Italy of.

Perugia, of all places; I know Italians from elsewhere all view those areas (Tuscany, Perugia, etc), in Italy as some of the most hospitable and kind and the greatest places to be, they are proud that the people are so kind and lovely there, so all of this trying to describe a Perugian prosecutor as though he were some kind of torturer in a Japanese concentration camp is so stupid, this is why I just have to use extremes to try to show how stupid and ignorant it is to make such accusations.

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Last edited by zorba on Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Unofficial translation from the Italan into English.


PERUGIA TODAY

The bad reputation of Perugia, Amanda hits hard again: Harassed by prison guard

In her book that has netted her 4 million dollars, Amanda goes back to cursing Perugia. After speaking evil of magistrates, policemen, cities and other things, she, now claims to have been molested .....


Editorial · April 14, 2013


Her again. The curse of Perugia both as regards the image and as media attention to Perugia the Umbrian capital. Amanda Knox. The beautiful American, a little 'fatal and a little' like the small baby before the re-examination at the the new appeals process regarding the death of Meredith Kercher to take place in Florence; after the Supreme Court overturned the acquittal in Perugia - she wanted to "curse" Perugia yet again.

And in this way [mode/fashion/manner], after the accusations of bad judges, a city of drunkards, ugly and dirty cops who beat her up (you aren't mistaking this with those of your own hometown Seattle are you?) and others, she also wanted to hit out with a zero against the system of prison guards. Of course, we knew already, the only other thing that had been missing all along was the ordinary, average Italian, who "wants to do everything to defenseless women."

And so the blonde from Seattle - we twin with this city .... that does not love us - in advance of her book of €3 million (for writing it .....) wrote that she had been harassed by a prison guard: "he was obsessed with sex ... asked me ​​explicit questions, I was so surprised and shocked that at times I thought I did not understand what he was saying."

The agent replied that he had conversations with Amanda about sex, but stating that she always started the conversation.

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Last edited by zorba on Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks, Zorba! :)

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Thanks, Zorba! :)


You're welcome, my pleasure Michael and thank you for the link.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

In a way I prefer the Google Translate version as it sounds like an Italian trying to speak English, so more authentic and the humour comes across, ahahaha because Italians are masters at cynicism, god the flavour of it, delicious!!

just like an ice cream, un cornetto con gelato, strachiatella, fragola e limoni, quanto buono

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Last edited by zorba on Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
In a way I prefer the Google Translate version as it sounds like an Italian trying to speak English, so more authentic and the humour comes across, ahahaha because Italians are masters at cynicism, god the flavour of it, delicious!!

just like an ice cream, un cornetto con gelato, stachiatella, fragola e limoni, quanto buono


Thanks, Zorba. I don't know about the Google translate. The two words, "Her again." The editorial could have stopped with this and I would have gotten the point, loud and clear.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Sollecito's (alias Urge) bit then, an unofficial translation


„RAFFAELE SOLLECITO “

Luckily shooting at Perugia too, Raffaele Sollecito, the other accused of the murder of Meredith Kercher.

Despite a national magazine commenting on his photo, considered disturbing, he placed his profile on Facebook.

Among other things, there are also images of his return to the capital in November 2012.

Photos of Perugia in the evening with the fog, which for many was a message of hatred, contempt and obscurantism. Also for the weekly.

But not to Sollecito: "I have no negative memories of the city itself ..."

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
In a way I prefer the Google Translate version as it sounds like an Italian trying to speak English, so more authentic and the humour comes across, ahahaha because Italians are masters at cynicism, god the flavour of it, delicious!!

just like an ice cream, un cornetto con gelato, stachiatella, fragola e limoni, quanto buono


Thanks, Zorba. I don't know about the Google translate. The two words, "Her again." The editorial could have stopped with this and I would have gotten the point, loud and clear.



Yes me too, ha ha, they are so funny the Italians you know Nap, I never met people who could do sarcasm, satire and cynicism the way they do, they love it, they really have a laugh about situations where people are obviously lying to their teeth, etc, and are so kind they say it in these funny ways, not nasty, Bambi, ah che carino, lovely little dear, Bambi, then they are talking about some mafia heavy or suchlike, not nasty but they are in fact disgusted.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
In a way I prefer the Google Translate version as it sounds like an Italian trying to speak English, so more authentic and the humour comes across, ahahaha because Italians are masters at cynicism, god the flavour of it, delicious!!

just like an ice cream, un cornetto con gelato, stachiatella, fragola e limoni, quanto buono


Thanks, Zorba. I don't know about the Google translate. The two words, "Her again." The editorial could have stopped with this and I would have gotten the point, loud and clear.



Yes me too, ha ha, they are so funny the Italians you know Nap, I never met people who could do sarcasm, satire and cynicism the way they do, they love it, they really have a laugh about situations where people are obviously lying to their teeth, etc, and are so kind they say it in these funny ways, not nasty, Bambi, ah che carino, lovely little dear, Bambi, then they are talking about some mafia heavy or suchlike, not nasty but they are in fact disgusted.


Zorba! I don't know if this was intentional, but this gets my award for Saying of the Day. Direct hit on my funny bone. tt-)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
In a way I prefer the Google Translate version as it sounds like an Italian trying to speak English, so more authentic and the humour comes across, ahahaha because Italians are masters at cynicism, god the flavour of it, delicious!!

just like an ice cream, un cornetto con gelato, stachiatella, fragola e limoni, quanto buono


Thanks, Zorba. I don't know about the Google translate. The two words, "Her again." The editorial could have stopped with this and I would have gotten the point, loud and clear.



Yes me too, ha ha, they are so funny the Italians you know Nap, I never met people who could do sarcasm, satire and cynicism the way they do, they love it, they really have a laugh about situations where people are obviously lying to their teeth, etc, and are so kind they say it in these funny ways, not nasty, Bambi, ah che carino, lovely little dear, Bambi, then they are talking about some mafia heavy or suchlike, not nasty but they are in fact disgusted.


Zorba! I don't know if this was intentional, but this gets my award for Saying of the Day. Direct hit on my funny bone. tt-)



Ahaha oops, I think it's lying through their back teeth (lying and it is obvious), but thinking more about it, talk to the hand

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
In a way I prefer the Google Translate version as it sounds like an Italian trying to speak English, so more authentic and the humour comes across, ahahaha because Italians are masters at cynicism, god the flavour of it, delicious!!

just like an ice cream, un cornetto con gelato, stachiatella, fragola e limoni, quanto buono


Thanks, Zorba. I don't know about the Google translate. The two words, "Her again." The editorial could have stopped with this and I would have gotten the point, loud and clear.



Yes me too, ha ha, they are so funny the Italians you know Nap, I never met people who could do sarcasm, satire and cynicism the way they do, they love it, they really have a laugh about situations where people are obviously lying to their teeth, etc, and are so kind they say it in these funny ways, not nasty, Bambi, ah che carino, lovely little dear, Bambi, then they are talking about some mafia heavy or suchlike, not nasty but they are in fact disgusted.


Zorba! I don't know if this was intentional, but this gets my award for Saying of the Day. Direct hit on my funny bone. tt-)



Ahaha oops, I think it's lying through their back teeth (lying and it is obvious), but thinking more about it, talk to the hand


I knew exactly what you meant, but your way actually improves it!
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ha, yeah, maybe you're right, even before the words leave the mouth the teeth disagree with what's coming across them; listen tongue, give it a rest right, you don't want us biting you again do ya?

OK then, we'll forget about it this time but don't do it again.

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

A Mother in Limbo
A new Amanda Knox trial means mixed emotions for the victim’s mother.
By Barbie Nadeau
Apr 15, 2013 4:45 AM EDT
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2 ... limbo.html

"Arline Kercher —the mother of Meredith Kercher, whose 2007 killing in Italy led to the conviction, then acquittal of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito—will soon find herself forced to relive her daughter’s death yet again. That’s because, last month, the highest court in Italy overturned the duo’s acquittal, setting the stage for still more trials in the case. “It is always distressing to hear and read about the murder,” Arline told me by phone from England, where she lives. “We have to brace ourselves for another round of this nightmare.”
And yet, while at some level she is dreading the revival of the spectacle surrounding the case, she is also glad the pursuit of the truth is continuing. “We want justice for Meredith,” she told me. “We don’t want anyone who is innocent to go to jail, but there are still a lot of unanswered questions that seem to have been ignored in the last trial.” "
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Another attempt, wrote this the other day then, as I had just installed IE 10 somehow it mucked up and disappeared.

What I wanted to say is, when I write about Hitlerian interrogators, it has nothing to do with ordinary people, Germans or an others, as in every place, almost any place, there have been awful persons.

Using such awful people in scenarios is meant to typify a certain type of person/persons.

I mean the concentration camps were invented by the British in South Africa if I am correct.
I'm British but not blindly patriotic so if a thing is real I'll say it no matter where it came from; to be proud of the spot on this planet that you just so happened to get born, in my view is ridiculous.

Pride in something you invented, okay, but this false pride I hate it.
So when I try to show how ridiculous it is to accuse Italian police in the way Knox, her family and also Sollecito and his family have, I use such total horrors like Hitler or Manson to show how ridiculous it is what Knox has accused everyone in Italy of.

Perugia, of all places; I know Italians from elsewhere all view those areas (Tuscany, Perugia, etc), in Italy as some of the most hospitable and kind and the greatest places to be, they are proud that the people are so kind and lovely there, so all of this trying to describe a Perugian prosecutor as though he were some kind of torturer in a Japanese concentration camp is so stupid, this is why I just have to use extremes to try to show how stupid and ignorant it is to make such accusations.


Second that, zorba. People in Perugia (and Rome) were so kind and courteous and I came back with such a respect for their system of justice it just grates to see the sort of crap I've read about Italy in reporting about this case.

Just an observation: I stayed around the corner from The University for Foreigners and met many students; they were Australian, European, Chinese, hardly any Americans, and all were pretty sober and not too bad in the evenings. They actually looked like they were there to learn the language, and all seemed respectful of the culture there.

Rome, on the other hand, was over run it seems with hordes of loud hung over 20'ish American students, the street cars at night filled with overheard conversations about the party they'd been to the night before and the party they were going to, (the drug of choice seeming to be ecstacy, no whiff of weed there) one from Maryland saying how "he drank the whole bottle".

Note to American parents: if you want to send your drug addled no parental control teenagers to Italy, don't complain if some of them fall afoul of the law, or even, get caught committing murders.
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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
A Mother in Limbo
A new Amanda Knox trial means mixed emotions for the victim’s mother.
By Barbie Nadeau
Apr 15, 2013 4:45 AM EDT
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2 ... limbo.html

"Arline Kercher —the mother of Meredith Kercher, whose 2007 killing in Italy led to the conviction, then acquittal of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito—will soon find herself forced to relive her daughter’s death yet again. That’s because, last month, the highest court in Italy overturned the duo’s acquittal, setting the stage for still more trials in the case. “It is always distressing to hear and read about the murder,” Arline told me by phone from England, where she lives. “We have to brace ourselves for another round of this nightmare.”
And yet, while at some level she is dreading the revival of the spectacle surrounding the case, she is also glad the pursuit of the truth is continuing. “We want justice for Meredith,” she told me. “We don’t want anyone who is innocent to go to jail, but there are still a lot of unanswered questions that seem to have been ignored in the last trial.” "


That's a superb article Ava, good find. Arline is such as class act, she says so much with so few words, others could learn from her.
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yes, and it's so different from the noise we usually have to listen to, isn't it.
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Offline louiehaha


Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:13 am

Posts: 348

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

John Follain - Amanda Knox’s $4m book deal is ‘dirty money’
Quote:
A REPORTED $4m (£2.6m) advance paid to the American student Amanda Knox for her autobiography is “dirty money”, according to the former bar owner she falsely accused of murdering Meredith Kercher.

Patrick Lumumba, who owned the bar where Knox worked as a waitress, alleged that she slandered him to cover her own involvement in the 2007 killing of Kercher, an exchange student from Coulsdon, south London. Kercher was found almost naked with her throat cut in her cottage in the Italian town of Perugia.

Knox, 25, will publish Waiting to be Heard on April 30 in the United States, despite facing a new trial over Kercher’s murder. HarperCollins, its British publisher, said publication had been delayed in the UK on legal advice.

“Knox shouldn’t earn money because I think she’s guilty . . . [This is] the version of a girl who tells lies, she has changed her story,” said Lumumba, 43, who was arrested and jailed for a fortnight after her accusation.

He said the advance was wrong “from a moral point of view”, adding that Knox had failed to apologise for slandering him. “For me the $4m are dirty, they’re dirty money,” he said.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/new ... 245230.ece


The article closed with this: Lumumba is appealing to the European Court of Human Rights after an Italian judge awarded him €8,000 (£6,800) in damages, a sum he said was “ridiculous”. He lost the bar he owned and now works in restaurants and bars run by friends.

What is the status of the judgements awarded by the Massei court?

Quote:
KNOX Amanda Marie and SOLLECITO Raffaele to the compensation, jointly with each other, for damages in dealings with the constituted plaintiffs John Leslie Kercher, Arline Carol Lara Kercher, Lyle Kercher, John Ashley Kercher, and Stephanie Arline Lara Kercher, damages to be liquidated in another trial and awarding an immediately executive provisional [compensation] equal to the amount of 1,000,000 euro each in favour of John Leslie Kercher and Arline Carol Lara Kercher, and to 800,000 euro each in favour of Lyle Kercher, John Ashley Kercher and Stephanie Arline Lara Kercher, in addition to a lump-sum refund, Value Added Tax and CPA as required by law;


Quote:
sentences KNOX Amanda Marie to compensate for damages in dealings constituted by the plaintiff Patrick Diya Lumumba, to be liquidated in another trial and awarding an executive immediate provisioning of 10,000 euro.


Quote:
sentences KNOX Amanda Marie to pay the reimbursement of the legal costs sustained by Patrick Diya Lumumba which liquidates in total to 40,000 euro in addition to a lump-sum refund, Value Added Tax and CPA as required by law.


Quote:
sentences KNOX Amanda Marie and SOLLECITO Raffaele to compensate for damages in dealings with the plaintiff constituted by Aldalia Tattanelli to be liquidated in a separate hearing, and Lyle Kercher, John Ashley Kercher and Stephanie Arline Lara Kercher awarding to the same an immediately executive provisional [compensation] of 10,000 euro.


Quote:
Sentences the accused to jointly pay the reimbursement of the legal costs of the plaintiff Aldalia Tattanelli which liquidates in total to 23,000 euro in addition to a lump-sum refund, Value Added Tax and CPA as required by law.


And also the Hellman appeal?
Quote:
confirms, with regard to this count alone, the civil decrees of the ruling
under appeal and orders Amanda Marie Knox, to pay the court costs and the attorney fees
of the civil party expended in the present proceedings by Patrick Diya Lumumba,
liquidating in total to 22,170 euros for rights and further orders reimbursement general
costs and miscellaneous expenses according to law;


Also, the Supreme Court awarded him 4,000 euros in additional (?) damages.

Can someone please explain the 8,000 Euro award Lumumba is talking about?

And do the judgements awarded to the Kerchers by the trial court (Massei) still stand?
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Offline louiehaha


Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:13 am

Posts: 348

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

So, according to Knox, almost everyone wanted to have sex with her in prison.

Mirror, Mirror on the wall
Who's the sexiest sex murderess of all?


Last edited by louiehaha on Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox's ex Rafaelle Sollecito moves to Switzerland 'because the people are discreet', but insists he will return for retrial
By Hannah Roberts In Rome
PUBLISHED: 12:42 GMT, 15 April 2013 | UPDATED: 13:05 GMT, 15 April 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml

"Sollecito's bags were reportedly packed even before he learnt that he must face retrial for the murder of British exchange student Meredith Kercher."
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Offline louiehaha


Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:13 am

Posts: 348

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Amanda Knox's ex Rafaelle Sollecito moves to Switzerland 'because the people are discreet', but insists he will return for retrial
By Hannah Roberts In Rome
PUBLISHED: 12:42 GMT, 15 April 2013 | UPDATED: 13:05 GMT, 15 April 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml

"Sollecito's bags were reportedly packed even before he learnt that he must face retrial for the murder of British exchange student Meredith Kercher."


Funny he didn't mention that before the verdict, must have slipped his mind.
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Knox Reportedly Reveals Sexual Harassment in Memoir (video)
A British tabloid is reporting that Amanda Knox's memoir says she was harassed while behind bars.
02:41 | 04/15/2013
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/amanda- ... e-18956317

"Amanda Knox' new book could be a blockbuster."

:)
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Also, the Supreme Court awarded him 4,000 euros in additional (?) damages.

Can someone please explain the 8,000 Euro award Lumumba is talking about?

And do the judgements awarded to the Kerchers by the trial court (Massei) still stand?



The 8,000 euros was the compensation sum paid to Patrick by the Italian state. All those that have been falsely imprisoned, even if it is not actually the fault of the state, are entitled to state compensation. It's this sum that Patrick is challenging.

As for the Kerchers, yes, their award by Masei stands, unless they are acquitted or it is adjusted by the appeal court or later, Cassation. It is unlikely to be lessened and may even be increased as they will take things like Knox and Sollecito's book deals/paid interviews into consideration.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Just to add...for the loss of his business, Patrick should really be going after Knox for it, rather then the Italian state, since it is really her fault. State provision is limited by statute.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Actually, I think it must be said, Sollecito is not blameless in this either. Rightly, much of the focus is put on Knox for her callunia, however, Sollecito was aware of her lie and Patrick's arrest yet said nothing to dispel the lie. Sollecito was present at the murder and knew from the beginning Patrick wasn't there and took no part in it, yet he said nothing. Therefore, Sollecito too has a moral responsibility, if not a legal one.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael I keep hearing one of the main multiple forum ID-ers, like on ther Independent the other day, repeating all the time that Knox is going to appeal the Calumnia ruling, I thought she had already appealed and that the High Court made it final, guilty as charged.

What is right, do you know?

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Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

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Location: N.C., USA

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Guermantes quoting The Telegraph wrote:
His father, Francesco Sollecito, told The Daily Telegraph that despite settling down in Switzerland, his son would be returning for his second appeal, which could be held this year.


Yeah, right. We've heard promises like these before. Does everyone remember how before each court hearing and then before each trial the Sollecito family or/and his lawyers always promised that Raffaele would take the stand in his defence? Look what all those promises amounted to. Their promises are worth squat.


Haha... and pops had the book writing stuff and internet follies under control too ss-) .
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Just to add...for the loss of his business, Patrick should really be going after Knox for it, rather then the Italian state, since it is really her fault. State provision is limited by statute.



Yeah, as an aside, he is so right to feel lost and used and mistreated, there's Knox saying the mistreatment is always to her, but it is he who lost his business, he who did nothing wrong but she who gets to have more money than she could ever have imagined, unless she obeys the demands to pay up, unless she returns to serve her sentence if the appeal goes against them and the supreme court upholds that.

Surely if the madam had ever been anything reomotely like decent, she'd have forked out several hundreds of thousands from her fat piggy bank, just to show I didn't mean it, I only did it because they beat me up, but her behaviour simply continues in the vein it always ran through, yes of dishonesty, she knew exactly what she was doing, knows where she was, knows who she saw, where she slept, knows exactly what happened, if she had been genuine she'd not have needed telling, she'd have given Patrick money, compensation, but, she has zero integrity so will never do that, she will walk around as long as she gets way with it all, wearing her oh-look-what-they-did-to-poor-me face.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Cassazione rulings cannot be appealed in Italy, zorba. They must be referring to the European Court of Human Justice, which rarely rules on such picayune matters. How can she argue her human rights were violated? She caused Patrick to lose his business. Her supporters are just wandering around in shock right now, saying whatever.
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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Just to add...for the loss of his business, Patrick should really be going after Knox for it, rather then the Italian state, since it is really her fault. State provision is limited by statute.


If I were a betting woman, I'd wager that Patrick is way more likely to go for Knox in a US civil case than the Kerchers. At least to get his court awarded money which I can't see a US court rejecting....then she should hit her for the punitive damages, US style.

You have to hand it to Sollecito for avoiding a world of shit for keeping his mouth shut in the police station. He must thank his lucky stars every single day that he didn't throw out wild accusations ala Knox.
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