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XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31, 12 - MARCH 29, 13 (S)

Moderators: Nell, Ergon, Michael, Moderators


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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi Napia,

They didn't say they were able to raise 10,000 euros, in fact they said the sum was crazy and I assume the donations in total have never reached 10,000 euros. That was the amount that Frank said he needed to keep his apartment and he also stated it was for a security deposit his landlord insisted on.

Member e470jph mentions on IA the so called security deposit for the first time on April 11th, 2012, indicating that his landlord planned to change the locks on May 18th if Sfarzo doesn't pay. At this date the members at IA don't know yet how much money the landlord asks for. Six days later, on April 17th, e470jph writes that the landlord demands 10,000 euros. Sfarzo has four weeks to find a new place to stay. Clive Wismayer informed on IA that Frank Sfarzo had lost his apartment and blames it on the Italian police and the press. His comment is dated from July 5th, so Frank must have lost his apartment on or before that date.

Clive Wismayer wrote:

Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo Fund Drive
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:54 am
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 5282
Location: Surrey, England

A reminder that Frank returns to court on 11th July. He lost his apartment by the way, thanks to the cowardly cops and Italy's craven press.

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Frank Sfarzo arrives in Seattle July 24th according to member e470jph.

From the thread linked in one of my former posts, Frank Sfarzo losing apartment due to lack of funds, it is clear that the groupies donated substantial sums of money to help support him. On Bruce Fischer's forum the possibility of Sfarzo's immigration to the U.S. was also discussed as a means of avoiding prosecution in Italy. This is probably how the idea was born to "invite" him over and passing him around, from host to host, in an effort to financially support him and avoid prosecution. He calls it a holiday, I call it freeloading. Since he's left Perugia to avoid his trial, he has been arrested once in Canada and once in Hawaii, always because someone wanted him removed. In Canada he allegedly accused his host of molesting him and refused to leave and in Hawaii he resisted arrest.

According to Bettina, there was another woman who had invited him but threw him out the very first day. We don't know who that was, but Bettina also told us she had been warned by various people about Frank Sfarzo, so if this is true, I guess from now on it's going to be tough to find a new host. You can read most of it in this excellent summary from Ergon who resumed his phone call with Bettina for us.

Quote:
Bettina confirms that another woman told her the same thing happened to her, but she got rid of Frank right away.


There is a photo in Frank Sfarzo's Facebook timeline that shows him surrounded by women.


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Last edited by Nell on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
Quote from Clive Wismayer added
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:07 am   Post subject: Re: ADMINISTRATOR NOTE!   

Michael wrote:
Administrator Note:

Hi, Everyone. Please welcome Nell in her promotion to her new role as Site Admin!

When I first recruited Ergon and Nell as Moderators, it was always with the intention of grooming them to become Site Admins. They were never intended to replace me, but rather to join me in a team, a triumvirate, to steward the PMF community. I shall remain as Admin, so don't fear that I'm going anywhere. It is not healthy to have a community in the hands of one person, nor should this community be about names other then Meredith's. Certainly, it should not be 'Michael's' community, it belongs to all of us and to Meredith. It is also necessary to ensure PMF goes from strength to strength. I wish Nell the best of luck in her new role! :)

Thank You,

Michael


Thank you Michael. I very much appreciate the confidence placed in me and I would also like to thank everyone who has already welcomed me in my new role as a Site Admin.

Nell
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ahaha

Good job Nell, someone has to keep the lunatics o n the path or out of here!
See my squirrel George's tales, for further info, I gave him some orders to save his nation, he's probably infiltrated Franco's rucksack as we speak and is chewing up his credit cards that F may have stolen off his girlfriend there above, with the face she keeps in a jar by the door, all the lonely people, where do they get money for all those face-lifts and nose jobs.
My God, I hardly dare say it but old Charlie Damspray looks ill at ease there sat next to F, maybe she'd been to the WC came back and wondered whether or not she'd brought her purse with her as she cannot seem to find it.

What else can I say faced with a barrage of insanity

But I must say these clearer pictures of F make me think he has the mug of a proper crook, I bet he never ate so much as there,
until he'd eaten the lot and I wondered why Knox's ma had looked thinner, it wasn't the worry it was F eating the lot, now Obelix the priest guy, I mean I 've been too tired to start a scenario on him, but it has crossed my mind, and visions of Jesus showing his complete love and saying turn the other cheek, all ye who come to my Father's house must pass through this door, through me, but old fatty there, who looks like he spends more time at barbies and I don't mean our one, sits, like the Pharisees, not entering through the door, but in front of it, so that nobody else can get in either.

Pick up your cross and follow me, yea, it will be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for you to enter the Kingdom, verily, aye, yea, and Obelix there, says ya ain't coming in, and, well done, let me go online, and try to threaten people.

Meanwhile, Obelix may not be a Catholic, God knows what he is, I cannot follow it, but, when those children come into church it's not that they are afraid of being sexually abused by the so-manyeth priester fake, as much as they are scared to death of becoming Sunday lunch, for surely, a fatty like he, could partake of and consume a child whole in a single sitting, leaving just enough for a couple of sandwiches on the Monday.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi, or should I say Oiiii, all you Americans, are you having ze hangovers, or is zer no drinking on ze Thanksgiving?

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
--- snip ---

But I must say these clearer pictures of F make me think he has the mug of a proper crook, I bet he never ate so much as there,
until he'd eaten the lot ...

--- snap ---


Well, what caught my eye in the photo above is that Frank Sfarzo is the only one who ordered something to eat. I wondered if this was, because he didn't have to pay for it? Maybe he was late for lunch or there is any other explanation that he is the only one who ended up with a plate in front of him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ordered the whole card without regard for his host who had to foot the bill. Just sayin'. The others only have a drink.

Or maybe it was his turn to pay and that's why the ladies ended up with water only while he tried the chef's recommendation?
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
--- snip ---

But I must say these clearer pictures of F make me think he has the mug of a proper crook, I bet he never ate so much as there,
until he'd eaten the lot ...

--- snap ---


Well, what caught my eye in the photo above is that Frank Sfarzo is the only one who ordered something to eat. I wondered if this was, because he didn't have to pay for it? Maybe he was late for lunch or there is any other explanation that he is the only one who ended up with a plate in front of him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ordered the whole card without regard for his host who had to foot the bill. Just sayin'. The others only have a drink.

Or maybe it was his turn to pay and that's why the ladies ended up with water only while he tried the chef's recommendation?


As always, spot on, Nell. I didn't notice the plate, I was paying more attention to the strained look on some of the faces in attendance.

Has it been posted where exactly Frank stayed after Canada and before Hawaii? I may have missed it.

Just a thought, but, perhaps Frank's current hotel bill is being paid by a publisher who smells a story. Just sayin'.
If the going rate for the soon-to-be-released memoir is $4,000,000 give or take, what would the dollar value be on the next book, one where Frank exposes HIMSELF and all his lies against Mignini? Oh, the sweet irony.

Get your pencil sharpened, Frank. There's a story in there.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
--- snip ---

And I just want to point out something out here. Unless I'm mistaken in my memory (help me someone), it was the incident of Frank's Italian arrest that directly led to his housing problems?

--- snap ---


I am not sure about that. According to the story he told the CPJ and Candace Dempsey, he was arrested on September 28th, 2010. A call to donations was published on IA (then IIP) by Sarah Snyder on October 9th, 2011. So there is a gap of approximately one year if the date about his arrest is correct (being Sfarzo the only source). He apparently had a place to live after his mother threw him out. Sarah Snyder mentions that he had to pay a fine for assaulting the police officers, but it is not revealed how much it was.


This is a selection of comments from the thread at IA (then IIP) Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds. This forum is not open visitors and you need to be a registered member on their board to read it. From time to time this thread disappeared completely from the forum. There was apparently an attempt to keep the collection of donations for Frank Sfarzo a secret.

Sarah wrote:

Post subject: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:21 pm
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http://perugiashock.com/

There is a donate button on his website. I know not everyone can afford to help him, but there is likely some on this forum that could and will.

He's looking for a new place with limited money. He also just had to pay the police for beating him up.



Sarah wrote:
Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:38 am
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I contacted Frank to see how he is doing. I will post his response for you all:

-----------------
Frank:
Hey thank you, very kind of you. Yes that was very helpful. One day want to thank all the people publically.
Yes, every now and then someone was sending something, that saved me...
But then Paypal blocked the account again. I sent them the docs they asked but it's still blocked. Probably they want newer documents so, as soon as I'll have I'll send them...

I'm try to relocate soon in some way, hopefully before they come to take my apt..

I'm busy with the house problem and the other troubles otherwise I'd write everyday an article... I've got to many things to say...
-------------------


e740jph wrote:

Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:41 pm
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How much does he need? I'm willing to help. :?:


Sarah wrote:

Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:43 pm
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anglolawyer wrote:
I have Frank's permission to reproduce here from an email received two days ago:

Frank Sfarzo wrote:
At the moment indeed, nobody hires me, magazines over here refuse my articles and a negotiation with a major publishing house ended up in nothing.
Not to mention the zero support I got from local journalists, all terrified by Piggy and his gang (I like the nickname they gave him). Instead of defending a colleague they side with that gang, can you believe it? You guys faraway have understood and this people, right here are still there supporting that criminal! And they call themselves journalists!
This guy is a criminal beyond believe and even after all the disasters he did he's still there! An people even learn from him!

I would go away but first I need to get out of troubles, then it will be my mission, with the help of you guys, to bring the gang to court.


Sarah wrote:

Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:17 am
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Frank has had his first court date for beating up the police.
It was only a technical hearing.

The next trial date is scheduled for May 16th.

He could use all the help he can get at this time.


e740jph wrote:

Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:01 pm
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Sarah wrote:
Frank has had his first court date for beating up the police.
It was only a technical hearing.

The next trial date is scheduled for May 16th.

He could use all the help he can get at this time.



...and his landlord is planning to change the locks on May 18th.

What we need here is a security deposit that will eliminate further actions by the landlord. I have not been able to move Frank in that direction. How much? If we have a figure, we can start a fund drive. I would suggest a 3 month deposit is achievable. I'm in - anybody else?

Keeping in mind, of course that the landlord at this stage may just want to get rid of him. After all, he may not want Piggy's goons from the lying squad descend upon his own nest.

As long as the honest citizens of Perugia do not acknowledge the vile grip Pignini and his goons have on the town, they will sink ever deeper into this swamp. I'll put up 1,000 euros for a deposit that will let frank keep his base. Step up ladies and gentlemen, the time for bullshit is over. Thanks for your patience. I can use it, 'cause I have none left. (there is no good emoticon for this)


e740jph wrote:

Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:47 am
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Frank is 'restoring' the lost parts from his old Google-based blog. He wants to save the whole blog as a complete package so that it can be a continuing reference once the blog closes and he moves to new things.
If his court case does not go well he may end up in jail and certainly will no longer be able to blog. If he wins, he'll wrap up the loose ends (Supreme court, calunnia charges, etc. etc.) and move on to new journalistic projects. He may well move to North America for this. He is currently mapping out the main theme for a new blog.

As I previously said in the main thread, his court case is on May 16th and his landlord will change the locks on May 18th. So he only has 4 weeks to wrap things up.

He cannot hang on to his current place since his landlord wants an outrageous 10,000 euros as a security deposit. One has to wonder if his landlord fears the gentle hand of Mignini?

I hope this explains this.



Then there was another call for donations on April 29th, 2012 by Sarah: Frank Sfarzo Fund Drive. Again, you need to be a registered member to see the forum.

Sarah wrote:
Sarah
Post subject: Frank Sfarzo Fund Drive
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:33 am
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Frank Sfarzo Fund Drive

Journalist Frank Sfarzo's court date for 'beating up the police' :rolleyes: is coming up on May 16th.
Frank continues to need help for both legal costs and living expenses. Please donate to Frank's fund to help him get through this important time. Frank Sfarzo put his own personal safety and security on the line to tell the truth about the Amanda Knox case in Peruiga. He needs our help now.


Here is the Pay-Pal account to donate funds to help Frank Sfarzo:

ps-don-coordinator@live.com

There is a link to donate on Frank's Perugia Shock blog. On the left hand side, mid-way down.

Support The Shock
Donate
http://perugiashock.com


Thanks so much to everyone who contributes!


* Please note that no one is being asked to put themselves in financial hardship to donate to this Fund drive. Everyone has different finances. Anything that people can afford and wish to give will be deeply appreciated by Frank, but no one is obligated or should put themselves in financial hardship to do so.


Bettina commented on both threads and offered her hard earned money to help Frank.

I think it is odd that someone who is reportedly in a situation that is described as "financial hardship" is found cocktail-sipping in Hawaii on the cost of other people. I find his rant about Canada also strange after he was afforded a stay and kindly welcomed by his hosts. If he wouldn't have gotten into trouble with the law, he could still be a guest there. Apparently he has anger issues.




Thanks, Nell, excellent research!!! This is exactly what I was looking for to support what I was saying. Whilst it is true, Frank and his fundraisers weren't claiming that his need for a new home was as a direct result of abuse by Mignini, they were using Frank's arrest and resulting prosecution as core to their pleas for donations. When asking for money, again and again the predicament of Frank's arrest and trial is repeated making them synonymous with both the need and Frank's being deserving of money. There is no escaping the fact that Frank's lies concerning his police arrest and trial in Italy were central to the appeals for financial donations to his cause and THAT is blatant fraud.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

The poster that was one of the key Frank fundraisers 'Sarah'...she, along with Bruce Fischer, is owner of IIP/IA is she not?

The IIP/IA owners have not only hosted the appeal for donations to Frank, but have actively promoted it and even when serious question marks regarding Frank were raised they allowed the appeal for funds to remain up on their board. Even after all this, it's still there now. That, makes them complicit in the fraud and at the very least, LIABLE to those who have donated funds in good faith as a result. Some very large sums have been given, we're not talking about pennys, and I would think that the victims have ample grounds for taking legal action against Sarah, Fischer and IIP/IA for compensation. Especially, as Frank Sforza clearly has no money and is busy doing his best to render himself stateless.

What does a lawyer think?! Jackie, could you perhaps comment on this?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

PMF competition: This is just a bit fun, so no prizes, only kudos.

Who can find out what the average price for a cocktail is in a Hawai'n hotel?

Bonus points are given to anyone who can find and post up a complete Hawai'n hotel's cocktail menu/price list! drin-) :)

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I can confirm that yet another female victim of Fransesco Sforza has come forward. Watch this space!

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
--- snip ---

But I must say these clearer pictures of F make me think he has the mug of a proper crook, I bet he never ate so much as there,
until he'd eaten the lot ...

--- snap ---


Well, what caught my eye in the photo above is that Frank Sfarzo is the only one who ordered something to eat. I wondered if this was, because he didn't have to pay for it? Maybe he was late for lunch or there is any other explanation that he is the only one who ended up with a plate in front of him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ordered the whole card without regard for his host who had to foot the bill. Just sayin'. The others only have a drink.

Or maybe it was his turn to pay and that's why the ladies ended up with water only while he tried the chef's recommendation?



I noticed that too, what struck me is that one of his prospective engagement partners, D, sat next to him, had a look of 'how did I get myself into this' on her face.

I agree, I think you're right, Franco kept saying he could eat a horse but then ordered nothing, until a priest, lawyer, judge, head of a school, or PR firm, or maybe the guy in the Hawaiian shirts of which Hawaiians say, hey who is that guy, we stopped wearing that stuff before Elvis started wearing em, like in 1959, said, 'You have what ya like Franco, if you forget your wallet in Italy, we don't care, a friend of Molly Muttontop (agent SM's code name for Knox) is a friend of ours, waiter, get this man a steak, get him mine, waiter get this man a gallon of cocktail juice, don't worry about the price Franco, the church sponsors are paying, they don't know it but it's all coming out of the collection box and the annual donations'.

Franco: Why aren't' you all eating like?
Church guy: Too early for us here Franco, we don't eat lunch till 1 and it's only 8.15 in the morning but as you explained, you all get up very early in Italy, you just carry right on there having your coctails and caviar, your porterhouse and crepes suzetta.

Franco: Yes, I think I like it here, think Il'l stay awhile

Church guy: Well ya know you're welcome to stay at my house cos my house is the house of da lawd and he's the guy footing the bills here anyhow

Franco: No, that's okay, thank you, I'm staying with Ms D, my fiancee financier, she's going to show me her balls

Carlotto Darkfrownsy: Er, my 'meat' balls ... like my old great granny made who, incidentally, I secretly hate, they all hated me to when I went and married out, to an Irish guy, yep all our kids have red hair and freckles and vacation in the north pole

Franco: Pole.. ah north pole a place not the girls in da club? Pole, round and round, where I was with the reverend last night with lap dancers, now that may be a safe place for me, they're all out to get me, and I was only defending your gal

Reverend: Waiter, get this man some more stew, he's off to the pole

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Last edited by zorba on Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Will look those cocktails up Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
I can confirm that yet another female victim of Fransesco Sforza has come forward. Watch this space!



More?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
I can confirm that yet another female victim of Fransesco Sforza has come forward. Watch this space!



More?


Yes.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
I can confirm that yet another female victim of Francesco Sforza has come forward. Watch this space!



More?


Yes.


Oh dear, he will need to find a new Mignini scapegoat over there

and how big is Kona anyhow, damn, I reckon if you're there two weeks everyone knows ya and there's our dear blamer, blaming the locals and threatening people

it doesn't look good

How long can you get away with blaming everything on someone

No wonder he got on the case, Knox and Sollecito blaming others inspired him, I mean, like attracts like in some ways.

Nice for Sollecito to engage with people he doesn't know, thinking he can use them, and then to be shown as someone actually still involved in a murder case making friends with colleague women batterers, yes, so convincing: Hi I'm Sollecito up on murder chargers, meet my friend the famous woman beater F.

If you could spare some money for us we need it to fight all of those wicked people who say we are bad for beating, robbing and killing.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I am starting to suspect that those victims we have heard from/about, are merely the tip of a very big iceberg.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
I am starting to suspect that those victims we have heard from/about, are merely the tip of a very big iceberg.



Yes, looking at Hawaii, I imagine Franco waiting for something like a murder whereupon he will try to blacken everyone but the killer's name.

That bit about nobody wanting his so-called journalism, I mean who does he think he is, he thinks you can say you are a thing and that's that, yeah with thousands of bone fide professionals hardly able to get a job they ought to be damned well grateful that he offers his amateur services with no accreditation whatsoever, I mean in Italy, they weren't and aren't falling for it, the guy is a liability.

As a child when his budgie died his mother got him a new one, you know, without saying it, but he knew, and he killed that one too.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

So Sfarty is enjoying himself, prices on the way, it's a nice day for those profiting, from those who are or have been abused, battered and/or murdered.

Looking at the list below I expect dear ol' Franco is costing them an arm n a leg if these are his staple food!!!



Pearl Cocktail
Melon Vodka, Soho Lychee Liqueur, Cointreau With A Squeeze Of Fresh Ruby Grapefruit Juice And Amoretti Pomegranate Syrup. Garnished With Fresh Lychee & A Sprinkle Of Pearl Dust.

French Kiss
Pucker Up With Ciroc Vodka, A Splash Of Raspberry Liqueur & Fresh Pineapple Juice. Shake And Strain, And You've Got A Martini Worth Kissing.

Pearl In The City
An Evening With Pearl's Cosmopolitan, Ketel One Citroen Vodka, Cointreau, Cruzan Coconut Rum, Cranberry, And Fresh Sweet N' Sour.

Pearl Pear-Tini
An Instant Classic, Pearl's Take On The Pear Martini, Grey Goose La Poire, Amaretto, Fresh Sweet N' Sour & A Splash Of Lemon-Lime Soda.

Once In A Blue Moon
A Cocktail This Good Only Happens Once In A Blue Moon! Grey Goose, Dekuyper Watermelon Pucker & Blue Curacao With A Splash Of Pineapple Juice & Sweet N' Sour.

Mocha Frappatini
Get Seduced By A Chocolate Concoction Of Van Gogh Dutch Chocolate Vodka, Godiva Chocolate Liquor, Van Gogh Chocolate Liquor, Rock Candy Syrup And Half-&-Half. Served Shaken In A Martini Glass. Add A Kick To Your Frapp With An Extra Shot Of Espresso Vodka For A Stronger Coffee Experience.

Island Love
Feel The Love, The Island Love, With Sweetened Coconut Milk, Malibu Coconut Rum, Skyy Infusions Pinapple Vodka, A Spash Of Pineapple Juice Shaken And Strained Into A Martini Glass Garnished With Toasted Coconuts.

Pamaberry Martini
Is It Pomegranate Or Is It Blueberry? We Delicately Balance Pama Pomegranate Liquor With Stoli Blueberry Vodka, A Dash Of Pomegranate Syrup, A Squeeze Of Fresh Lime Juice, And A Splash Of Soda.

Toasted Pineapple Drop
Skyy Infusions Pineapple Vodka, Disaronno Amaretto, Fresh Sweet N' Sour, A Splash Of Fresh Pineapple Juice, Served Chilled With A Cinnamon Sugar Rim.

Tickled Pink Bellini
Our Deliciously Sweet House Sparkling Wine Topped Off With X-Rated Blood Orange Vodka

Pearl Mai Tai
A Traditional Blend Of 10 Cane Rum, Orange Curacao, Pineapple Juice, Freshly Squeezed Lime Juice, Orgeat Syrup, Rock Candy Syrup & Topped Off With Myers's Dark Rum.

Cabo De Pearl Margarita
A Luxurious Twist On An Old Friend, The Cabo De Pearl Margarita Boldly Blends The Smoothness Of Cabo Wabo Blanco Tequila, Cointreau, & Fresh Sweet N' Sour.

Classic Mojito
If The Ground Is Shaking, We Must Be Muddling One Of Our Famous Mojitos. Try This Classic Mint Cocktail Made With 10 Cane Rum, Fresh Mint, Lime Juice And A Splash Of Soda

Sangria Passion
A Dramatic Blend Of Ciroc Grape Frost Vodka, Brandy, Crème De Cassis, Fresh Sweet & Sour And Sweet Red Wine. Garnished With An Orange Wheel.

Pineapple Buzz
A Sweet Citrus Buzz Sure To Awaken The Soul, Skyy Infusions Pineapple Vodka, Fresh Pineapple Juice And A Splash Of Red Bull Energy Drink.

Sweet Tea Lemonade
A Liquid Passport To The Deep South, Jeremiah Weed Sweet Tea Vodka, Jameson Irish Whiskey, Fresh Lime Sour And A Dash Of Bitters Topped With A Splash Of Lemon Lime-Soda.

Wild For Strawberries
Ketel One Vodka, Muddled Fresh Strawberries, Rock Candy Syrup Garnished With A Sugar Rim, A Girls' Night Out Favorite.

Triple Citrus Punch
Tanqueray Gin, Orgeat Syrup, Pineapple Juice, Shaken Into A Highball Glass With Freshly Squeezed Lemon, Lime And Orange Juices, Topped With A Splash Of Ginger Ale.

Coconut Mojito
Bacardi Rum Muddled With Fresh Lime Juice, Club Soda, Sweetened Coconut Milk And Plenty Of Mint. Garnished With A Float Of Cruzan Coconut Rum, Topped With Roasted Coconut Flakes And A Sprig Of Mint.

Pineapple Mojito
A Delicious Concoction Made With Cane Rum And A Splash Of Navan Vanilla Liqueur, Club Soda, Pineapple Juice, Lime Juice & Mint, Crowned With AFloat Of Cruzan Pineapple Rum.

Secret Crush
A New Obsession Of Freshly Muddled Oranges, Belvedere Pomarancza, Amoretti Pomegranate Syrup Topped With Cruzan Mango Rum. Garnished With A Fresh Slice Of Orange.

Skinny Margarita
A Fresh Twist On The Classic Margarita With Patron Silver Tequila, Agave Nectar, Ruby Red Grapefruit Juice, Fresh Lime Juice Shaken Into A Highball Glass.

Very Berrytini
A Delicious Combination Of Stoli Strawberry And Blueberry Vodkas With Fresh Raspberries Topped With A Splash Of Lemon Lime And Club Sodas.

Summer Gin Dream
This Cocktail Is Like A Day At The Spa, With Bombay Gin, Soho Lychee Liqueur, Fresh Cucumber Slices, And A Splash Of Lemon-Lime Soda.

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Last edited by zorba on Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

We need the prices.

Just so as Frank's sponsors can see how their money is being spent.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi Michael, according to About.com, an average cocktail/glass of vine price is $7.50; read here:

Saving Money on Liquor and Other Liquid Refreshments in Hawaii

Quote:
...if you and your significant other enjoy just two drinks per day each, that quickly totals $210 a week.

Hawaii Travel

See also: Cocktails in Hawaii - best of & how much?

Trip Advisor

drin-) :)
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

My, averaging out at $7.50 a pop!? That's quite pricey!

Frank really is having a nice time in Hawaii on the tab of all those who have donated money to his cause via Sarah and Fischer's website!

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
We need the prices.

Just so as Frank's sponsors can see how their money is being spent.


I've sent off for them, I never get why people do not include prices

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I didn't find a menu yet, but I think I may have found Frank's new hangout near the beach. Looks like a couple of new friends are sharing dinner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVDbozGx ... re=related
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
My, averaging out at $7.50 a pop!? That's quite pricey!

Frank really is having a nice time in Hawaii on the tab of all those who have donated money to his cause via Sarah and Fischer's website!


Right, I think there will be a number of the more expensive ones as the prices depend on the main ingredient, which means the type of booze going in.

A cheap gin is different to the top name brands.

If you want a cocktail with a specific, as named by you the customer, type of whisky in it, you have to pay for it, that way, you do not get only get what you are given (mostly given some cheapest brand like Johnny Walker) but instead get the expensive whiskies, vodkas and cognacs, whatever else too.

I expect Franco is on the 7 dollar ones (for breakfast) and the more expensive ones when he has back-up = someone paying.

Churchgoers everywhere in Seattle should be proud that they are funding what may be a current or ex coke user and now at least, woman bashing cocktail consumer.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
I didn't find a menu yet, but I think I may have found Frank's new hangout near the beach. Looks like a couple of new friends are sharing dinner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVDbozGx ... re=related



So that's his tent and the chickens have donated themselves to the barbie?

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
I didn't find a menu yet, but I think I may have found Frank's new hangout near the beach. Looks like a couple of new friends are sharing dinner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVDbozGx ... re=related



So that's his tent and the chickens have donated themselves to the barbie?



Well, right now it's just an unconfirmed rumour, but as I understand it, Frank has enough charisma, he can charm those chickens right into the pot!.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

There's this but if you look, they are so cheap because all of them have rum, or almost all of them.


Tropicals

Blue Hawaii
Light Rum, Blue curacao, Pineapple Juice & Coconut.
Price $: 6.25

Hawaiian Punch
Light Rum, Pineapple, Orange & Cranberry Juices, Topped with Brandy & a Dark Rum Float.
Price $: 6.25


Hualalai Lemonade
Vodka, Lemonade & Chambord Float.
Price $: 6.25

Kona Colada
Mac-Nut Liquor, Kahlua Blended with Ice Cream.
Price $: 6.25


Lava Flow
Light Rum, Coconut, Pineapple Juice, Ice Cream & Strawberry Swirl.
Price $: 6.25

Mai Tai
Light Rum, Tropical Fruit Juices & Dark Rum Float.
Price $: 6.25




Margaritas
Blend or on the rocks.

Flavors:
•Lime
•Melon
•Passion Fruit
•Mango
•Strawberry
•Banana
Price $: 5.95

Martini
Price $: 6.25


Pina Colada

Light Rum, Pineapple Juice, Ice Cream & Coconut.
Price $: 6.25

Tropical Itch
Light Rum, Tropical Fruit Juices, Bourbon & Dark Rum Float.
Price $: 6.25


Tropical Swamp Water
Malibu Rum, Pineapple & Orange Juice, Blue Curacao, Melon Liquor & Dark Rum Float.
Price $: 6.25

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
I didn't find a menu yet, but I think I may have found Frank's new hangout near the beach. Looks like a couple of new friends are sharing dinner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVDbozGx ... re=related



So that's his tent and the chickens have donated themselves to the barbie?



Well, right now it's just an unconfirmed rumour, but as I understand it, Frank has enough charisma, he can charm those chickens right into the pot!.


I mean to say, abusing people, okay right, but, you know... bad, but, er, threatening chickens with a court case and making them contribute to his funds, blackmailing them, is hideous, chickens stepping directly onto the barbie is going too far!!

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
I didn't find a menu yet, but I think I may have found Frank's new hangout near the beach. Looks like a couple of new friends are sharing dinner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVDbozGx ... re=related



So that's his tent and the chickens have donated themselves to the barbie?



Well, right now it's just an unconfirmed rumour, but as I understand it, Frank has enough charisma, he can charm those chickens right into the pot!.


I mean to say, abusing people, okay right, but, you know... bad, but, er, threatening chickens with a court case and making them contribute to his funds, blackmailing them, is hideous, chickens stepping directly onto the barbie is going too far!!



Well, he has to soften them up a bit first!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTgF3Fqcpao
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Taking a look, my impression, was all wrong, looks like there's no centimetre of untouched land there

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Latest developments in Sfarzogate: I have it on authority, that Frank Sforza is flying back to Perugia this weekend.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi, Michael, but umm, he's leaving the island this weekend and flying back to Seattle. After picking up his belongings, he will then go back to Italy, hopefully soon. This latest from Bettina, but we were playing tag for a while. I sent an update to the staff forum, and will be posting the exchange here. She does not know when Frank will be going back to Italy.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Will FS respect the strike when he returns?

Quote:
(Reuters) - Italian journalists plan to strike next week to protest against a law that would send them to jail for defamation but would let editors off with a fine, the journalists' union said on Thursday.
The Senate earlier passed an amendment to a bill that would set a maximum sentence of a year in jail for anyone convicted of defamation, while editors-in-chief and managing editors face a maximum fine of 50,000 euros ($64,400) or 20,000 euros respectively.
The measure must be approved by the Chamber of Deputies to become law. Italy has more than 20,000 full-time reporters, according to the Journalists' Guild.


I was intrigued by the idea that there was a journalists guild, and whether or not their members lists were public.
Score!

The Order of Journalists in Italy: an outdated institution?

Quote:
There are about 100.000 journalists in Italy, but the number could be much higher if the journalistic profession were not regulated by a corporation, the Ordine dei Giornalisti (ODG).
--snip--
The 1963 law provided for the Ordine be divided into three categories: the professionisti (full-time journalists), the pubblicisti (paid part-time journalists who also practise other professions) and the praticanti (fulltime journalists undergoing an 18 month traineeship in a media outlet).
The crucial difference between professionisti and pubblicisti lies in the process of acquiring the professional status. Pubblicisti must prove that they have worked for at least two years as paid journalists and published a number of articles which can vary depending on the regional section of the Ordine they are applying to.
Praticanti can become professional journalists after undergoing an 18 month paid traineeship, the so-called praticantato, or by attending a special two-year journalism course where instead of receiving a salary, participants are required to pay significant fees and take a challenging entrance test.
The next step is to pass an oral and a written exam and aspiring journalists can choose between several exam sessions every year. On a side note, it is quite shocking to report that the written exam had to be taken on a typewriter until 2009, when the use of the laptop was finally admitted.


The member lists for professionisti and pubblicisti are public. No Frank/Francesco Sforza/Sfarzo on either one. That does leave the possibility of trainee however. Or perhaps he's just a blogger and not a journalist at all?

professionisti:
--snip--

--snip--
http://www.odg.it/content/elenco-iscritti-0
pubblicisti:
--snip—

--snip—
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
Latest developments in Sfarzogate: I have it on authority, that Frank Sforza is flying back to Perugia this weekend.


Guess who else is back in Perugia?

4 hours ago
Raffaele updated his current city to Perugia, Italy.
Uploaded 37 photos from Perugia, Italy also. (on facebook)

Image

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... c4&theater

Wonder if he's looking for anything in particular?


Last edited by louiehaha on Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

FFS, has he no decency???

Murderers always return to the scene of the crime!

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

The only and only only reason Mr Cocktail is so in with the Seattle Arians is because he, as an Italian, through that very fact./angle, could lend weight (they imagined) to their preposterous claims, as though just because a single (as in one ''unit'') Italian having a so-called opinion about another Italian could be the be all and end all authority on any given subject.

Absolute basal thinking, however, Mr Woman Bashing, Police Accusing, Authority Blaming Big Mouth Franco, has and never even ever had a shred of real credibility.

Anyone who ever truly cared could see that where, not after even one month of Meredith's murder, he posted a POLL, ''Do you think Meredith was a nice person'', he was simply a vicious, nasty, inconsiderate man.

So those fuckers jumped on that seeing that they could use him for their own ends, he having given them a platform upon which to start, even in death, hurting Meredith, physically she was done, but in name, they continued, and Frank helped instigate that type of behaviour, so contrary to what our good and respected friend (and I mean that of course) Itchy says, though I know what he (you Itchy, saying this respectfully voicing a difference of opinion about excusing him) means, about attacking the character of Frank,
well, I'm afraid that based on these considerations
I'm left no choice but to heap criticism at the address of Mr Sfarzo
for doing things like this,
yes he is in need of treatment perhaps, but come on everyone, the guy knows full well what he is doing and has done, and he is simply plain nasty not really nuts in that way, and though I go on about nuts I know full well that accusing people of nuttery is no valid argument, especially when in Mr Frank's case it is no excuse, and is not a true reflection of the situation anno 2007-2012, of or pertaining to the events,
therefore I have real accusations/concerns, that I am fully able to express,
one of which is that writing something as unkind as that,
about Meredith,
means to me there is no excuse possible, he is not nuts, he knows what he says and what he does, in summation: his is a C , a capital C.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:55 pm   Post subject: SFARZOGATE UPDATE   

Interesting week for us here on Perugia Murder File. There was a bit of a lapse getting the information in (I went to see Lincoln, then Skyfall :) and confirming with Bettina/tamale but here's the information I have so far.

Quote:
tamale:
Message subject: Re: Further information re: Frank Sent: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:46 pm

I have nothing of his (except the bruise). He must keep the fight going.

Yes P told me Frank leveled that charge against him. He is not allowed in Canada because of the trouble/false charges. Funny, Frank did not mention that part (molestation)in his rant about Peter. Therefore I don't believe. I also know Peter...he was a supporter of Frank. A big supporter!!! if you know what I mean.


Ergon:
Message subject: Re: Further information re: Frank Sent: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:23 pm

...... I believe what you told me, and if you've been in touch with Peter, please let him know my offer still stands: post his side of it to clear the air, since it's already come out.

Have you heard from Frank since we last spoke? And kept the info?

Ergon

Ergon:
Message subject: Happy Thanksgiving Sent: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:10 pm

Hi, tamale,
Hope you had a good thanksgiving yesterday and doing well otherwise?
Ergon

Quote:
tamale:
Message subject: Re: Further information re: Frank Sent: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:51 pm

Greetings....Peter has authorized me to give a few details about Franks behavior in Canada. Peter tells me Frank was abusive to him for weeks. Peter called the RCMP at 4am because he felt threatened by Frank and could not bear another moment of the punishment. He did not fall down and I have never known him to be drunk. After the police took Frank away...Frank told the officers that Peter sexually molested him. Puleeze. I know Peter, and he believed in Frank. It is too bad that Frank felt he could abuse his generous host in such a manor. If this were true, why Frank did not relate this detail to me (?)....I don't believe based on my own adventure with the bad energy called Sforza.
After my ordeal...Frank wrote a long letter to Peter, further insulting him. He called Peter a failure, as he did me. That is the big picture. Those are the general details. Peter is not interested to toell his story. B


Quote:
tamale:
Message subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving Sent: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:58 pm

Some nice person read your words about the charges against Frank. Know that I have called the prosecutors office and will report the public and personal mistreatment I continue to receive from the hero of Perugia and the World.

You have my permission to print all messages.


Ergon:
Message subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving Sent: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:46 pm

Thanks, tamale. I will wait for you to let me know when you speak to the prosecutor before I post anything.

Please let Peter know that I will post what he gave permission to post. If he disagrees with anything we write here on the website, please pass it on to you and I will correct anything that isn't true or without his permission.

You asked for a number to send the text messages Frank sent to you. Here's my number, ....... Please keep it in confidence, and delete it if you write to any one else. I rarely use it except to check for messages, which I do regularly. I need the most recent one and a sample of whatever abuse or threats he directed at you.

If you have the photos of your bruises on your phone, do you want to send it? Let me know what you like, or if you need an e-mail address.

One of these days i will talk to you about my spiritual connection with Hawaii.

Best wishes,
Ergon

Quote:
tamale:
Message subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving Sent: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:15 pm

Because Frank is leaving this Island this weekend, I will let this slide. He will collect his things in seattle and then go to Perugia to face the music. His resources in the Pacific North West are not happy.

Imagine what the Perugia courts would think. I wish I was plugged in so I could let them know. Your calling the courts in HI was good work and I thank you for the information.

I can't send texts to canada...and I am unable to up my service plan. Frank was an unwelcome burden on my finances....it will all be good soon. Smile.

I will in good time find a way to send bruises and texts.

Between us only, I felt it was important for Frank and I to meet. Why, I did not know. My small role towards shining a light on a charlatan and abuser brings me a feeling of peace.

I am well aware of Franks activities. When someone brings horrible drama to my house...I will get to the bottom of the mystery. ...... I am satisfied he is everything I said he was.

Thanks again, enjoy the day (it's night in Toronto). B

I do trust we shall both move in a principled manner.



Ergon:
Message subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving Sent: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:17 pm

Hi, tamale,
Thanks for the update. I assume I have your permission to repost this message as well?
Yes, we should all act with principle, and I hope people will tell me if ever they think I have done otherwise. The fact is that most people know so little about what I actually do (because I separate my medical and spiritual work from what is a volunteer position on Perugia Murder Files) then people make all sorts of assumptions about me. If you knew the extent of what I do, you would know I would never compromise my principles just to score cheap points about other people.
The fact remains that Frank has abused other people, which would have been swept under the rug, if you had not acted with principle, and I, did the right thing by bringing this to light and following up on it. I would have not followed up if Frank had stopped his behaviour, and Bruce Fischer had not made several posts challenging your credibility. And, since I posted what I did, we have heard from another woman who's prepared to speak up. If not, then an abuser would have stayed in North America to continue that abuse. So, for speaking up, I thank you.
One day, I'll write about what draws me to Hawaii, which is truly another subject altogether.

Best wishes,
Ergon.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

What I don't get Bettina, is how, if you are on such bad terms with Frank, you know exactly what his movements are, or are to be?

Who tells you these things, I need to know that, as for me, it is hard to follow and I sympathise with you about the abuse and believe you and with or without you I never trusted Frank as far as he could be thrown, but, I need to know this, as it is otherwise too much like a matter of hearsay.

I mean I need something substantial but if it is not forthcomng doesn't mean I don't believe you it just means it remains to be seen that he is leaving and that he is going there and then going there.

I know not.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Thanks, Ergon and Bettina for the latest.

I think this should be emphasised; Bettina was in the process of pressing harassment charges against Frank. The only reason she is now not doing so, is because Frank has agreed to leave the island this weekend.

Zorba -

I presume that Bettina has been made aware of Frank's planned movements via her contact with the prosecutor. However, I'm sure Bettina will see your question and answer for herself anon.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I am not speaking for Bettina, zorba, but know that several members of IIP/I-A have contacted her with messages of support and similar stories (but do not wish to speak publicly) and she may have heard this from them. I also suggested to her she speak to the local police and it might well be they who informed her of Frank's departure.

Bettina lives a very simple, quiet life in an isolated rural area with spotty internet access, so may not be able to answer every question posed to her. She just went through an ordeal which was very taxing on her emotionally and is only now begun to heal. But from I hear about it it was mostly emotional and verbal, and the physical escalation happened only towards the end of his visit.

Right now, I only want to thank those who came forward to tell their experience.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Okay folks, Michael and Ergon, somehow it must be accurate, hadn't thought of that, it is something when people have to be afraid to say their names, like us too, in spite of what they say, the reason is that if you do say your name, they would then do everything they can to intimate you, that people are afraid to say who they are is, apart from the ordinary reasons not to do so online, far worse with this lot, where they are just too much, completely deranged and into terrorising people, you'd never think of it eh, how lawyers, judges, media outlets, reverends, could allow themselves to be associated with such things.

Anyhow, news: New cockail named in honour of The Italian, as gratitude for his leaving them alone, the Cocktail Franco, 1 dollar 75, cheap, inspired by the same best defining the Blog Hog from Perugia.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Someone, definitely at least two people, are hiding a secret about Meredith's murder,

not just about the murder itself,

but about the framework in which it took place,

and it is at least as bad as any other thing anyone has been able to think up.

It couldn't be possible for it to be any other way than that there is an interconnection between the three, where,
each to his own
and each responsible for the own share,
did partake in the events that took place that night that Meredith died.

There's some weird twist that explains everything, and unlike the theories expounded upon, like actual sex, it was not about the actual sex as much as the psychology involving what things certain people wanted, and that under the influence of a lot of different stimulating drugs not on prescription from the doctor, each fell into a role as co-dependent on the other and through that, agreed with the other, through the force of that.

So where Sollecito made eyes at Meredith, and Knox made suggestions while he and Knox they played around with sex, Knox picking up on Sollecito's roaming eye homed in on those elements and played with Sollecito's mind, Sollecito who, strictly speaking, does not really have an own mind, as minds of one's own go, so he was an easy but fully willing participant and victim, in turn gladly making victims of others through that involvement with Knox, led only by sexual urges, as some creature without an own mind, for look at him now, rushing to do more, his hands most likely already full of blood, to try and gain some credit by joining in with yet another guy who is as dodgy himself and as dodgy as they get, one who is aggressive, acerbic towards everyone and unpleasant, so if Sollecito could be quite this foolhardy after an actual murder, god knows how thick-wìtted he was before the murder.

So Knoxious, playing around: Hey you like her eh
Solo no own mindo: NO. no, of course not.
Knoxious: Well she is nice eh!
Solo no mind of his own: Well, yes.

It was not without reason that Sollecito included, early on, so meaning, importantly, that stuff about Meredith's jeans, something happened there and it was probably Sollecito eyeing Meredith up and Knox picking up on that, and that factor had something to do with the type of trip/game Knox could then lay on Sollecito and where he'd then have been under her thumb.

I revealed stuff about one of my exes, who if seeing a mirror would sit in front of it, changing her face, looking at herself, as she at the same time failed to listen to you, so a sickly obsession with self and appearance and roles where women compete, and this is not saying things only about women but the way men interact is simply different, not better, necessarily, or worse, just different. So, that ex was here the other day, and after 10 years of not seeing much of her, or her behaviour, even now she started doing the mirror thing and I told her to stop, which she now did,whilst asking how she looked and what I thought of her and her looks.

Therefore, I've seen enough, from so many kinds of people, I know too then how a woman like Knox would have gotten Sollecito to say what was in his head, and having seen him eyeing Meredith up, I think she picked up on it immediately, and even if she - and he would have obviously denied it - did know, she would not have cared that much onl about her own perception of her own power, and I think she would have found a way to get him to say things so he coulf hide nothing, where then he, after that, could not go against what she said, not entirely either, for he looked at other females, Knox knew and that led her into playing games with other people by trying to force them to fit into what she wanted but als to kind of get basck at Sollecito by makng Meredith pay for his eying her up. When she in fact cared nothing truly for Sollecito, and less for Meredith.
If she had cared truly about Sollecito, if they'd have had love, then the court case would have bound them upon release, to stay together, for forever. If she had cared, I fear the truth is, Meredith would have been sharing Christmas in a week or two with her family, as usual, she would have been speaking fluent Italian, and have been in a well-paid job, helping her mother (and dear father) out already and having a great life.

In fact, if things had been the way they should have gone, Meredith may well have returned to Italy, worked, had her dad come down for a week.

Truth is Knox and Sollecito frm 2 November 2007 they were destined to be apart through the shared knowledge of the night Meredith died, which would have always been remembered had they ever stayed together.

At this point in time, the intentions Knox had may well have been defined by a will to meddle as she would have not felt like she owed Solecito anything for if he was truly into her, he would never have had eyes for anyone else and THAT IS A FACT OF LIFE. After he had given the game away so to speak he could hardly demand loyalty from Knox when they'd only just met especially when his eyes were not for her alone and she knew it.

That's why it was stupid, as Knox said. So why would she have been loyal to him and what right would he within this context have had to say anything about her behaviour?
No rights at all.

And then Knox gradually being able to mess around, with it all,
and once she'd gotten Sollecito into devious and unspeakable ideas as regards Meredith, she in turn was permitted, likewise, to involve someone else, which was Guede, the black man, the one who was so handsome, more handsome than any other black man she'd ever seen.

Whatever has been made, by way of twisting things, such as by Knox and Sollecito's defence and the league of online terrorists, I think the basics of this murder were all to do with sex, indeed and still yes, it's typical, actually, sex is not the right word, it's about people getting off their heads and being into lust, the terrible thing is, that lust is the thing that can do/create/lead to such things when actually, lust does not have to be a negative, it can be, and is, a natural thing, but, when a mind (ill intentions) is not right then lust is a dangerous driving force.

After all, consider, how in the world could they otherwise have all gotten into it, there has to be a simple explanation, for life in essence is just that, so there was no plan, it was just ongoing warped hedonism.

Look at Knox, all you hear is her thanking a football team of young jocks, where are the females? Mad Pax is a hanger on, and someone to be used, not a viable competing female, Knox didn't have anyone who could, and did, in a natural way, weigh in exactly as weightily as her, like regarding drawing attention from people, not until she moved out of her residential comfort zone hometown.

Anyhow, recently I met a woman, her daughter was a tearaway, 15 with a boyfriend of 13 and busy, fully, with sex already, they did what they liked, and she shouted a lot at her mother.

Anyhow, off on the school day to a major European city, the pair went off and did not return on time, the entire coach load of kids waited, for a couple of hours then had to leave, and this is just unheard of, you cannot do that and get away with it. So mother had to drive a hundred miles to find them, she somehow found them.

The daughter could have called, somehow, but was playing her mother up all of the time, but the pair acted as if nothing happened and the girl was especially loud as usual to her mother, who, in my opinion, was taking way too much, but I know why that was.

Anyhow, the way they behaved, like irresponsible, troublemaking kids, who listened to nobody, and only laughed all the more, is exactly the way Knox and Sollecito behaved after the murder.

Only they were already years older than the two kids.

Knox and Sollecito were adults.

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I wouldn't underestimate the role of Guede. His DNA was found in a few spots on Meredith's clothes and in her private area. These areas show extensive bruising so Guede must have been brutal. Then these freakin knives is what killed Meredith. Who in his/her right mind holds a knife against a helpless girl and still thinks it is 'funny'? Personally, I don't think they meant to kill Meredith but I do believe that even if we had known the whole truth it would still have been unbelievable.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Right Max but what I'm saying is, though I know he did these things, there had to be a framework that allowed for his worst bits to (be drawn/encouraged to come to the) surface, otherwise I'm not sure he would have done those things he did so readily and I think that medium was Knox.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

That is right Zorba. The medium was Knox but I think this mostly applies to Sollecito. He would have no other reason then his gf to attack Meredith. For Guede this might also have been a reason, but another reason could be that he was personally involved in the fight with Meredith. IMO it is likely that Meredith did not want him there and (instead of just leaving) Guede chose to join the team vs Meredith for that reason as well. There are probably many other factors such as coincidences and stupidity (lots of it) but I agree without the medium Knox this would never have happened.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

This little conversation between Biscotti and Nadeau is probably the most info we have on who orchestrated the attack that night. Of course, Biscotti does not reveal it included Guede although it is not clear what he means when he says 'Amanda said to them both'. However, Guede never told it like this. He heard Meredith and Amanda arguing and saw her silhouette.

Quote:
“So he’s going to admit they all killed her together?” I asked.

“Rudy didn’t kill her, as I’ve told you many times,” he said. “Rudy is going to tell them what Amanda said to them both that night.”

“She told them to kill Meredith?”

“Directed Raffaele,” he said. “She orchestrated it all.”

“And he did whatever she said in exchange for what?”

“Sex,” he said. “Promises and enticements. Raffaele is weak.”

“And Rudy?”

“Rudy was in the bathroom; he came out and it was all over,” he said, repeating Rudy’s usual line. “Rudy has never changed his story.”
Latza Nadeau, Barbie. Angel Face: The True Story of Student Killer Amanda Knox.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
That is right Zorba. The medium was Knox but I think this mostly applies to Sollecito. He would have no other reason then his gf to attack Meredith. For Guede this might also have been a reason, but another reason could be that he was personally involved in the fight with Meredith. IMO it is likely that Meredith did not want him there and (instead of just leaving) Guede chose to join the team vs Meredith for that reason as well. There are probably many other factors such as coincidences and stupidity (lots of it) but I agree without the medium Knox this would never have happened.


I think there's a little twist, and it is, that Knox encouraged Guede to go see Meredith, while Knox & Sollecito acted all sexual like right thee at the kitchen table, after all, if they were able and did appear to be acting in a sexualised way right there at the newly discovered scene of the murder and in front of everyone at the police headquarters, then obviously in their own time and space they wouldn't have been acting too inhibitively.

And that being told, Hey go see her. Would have acted as a strong driver in Guede's case, where he would say, well Amanda said to come and see you.

But therein, Meredith getting ready for the next day and bed, wouldn't have liked having a male knock on her door and maybe even enter immediately without even waiting for the door to be opened, and then perhaps seen Meredith in a state of undress, yet even that, may have led to an argument somehow, where not initially with Guede, as much as being angry or unhappy with Knox having people in and allowing them to find their way around in the house, that feeling would have meant Meredith felt unsafe.

I cannot imagine Guede simply going to the WC, down the hall, then knocking or entering Meredith's room, and attacking her, how in the world would he ever have imagined he'd be able to get away with it. So he would not have done that. However, having a female egg you on, encourage you, make you think it's okay in that you will have a chance, and maybe, well, she told me she likes you Rudy, go and see her. May have been part of how he got drawn in.


But I think when Meredith had gone off to bed, Knox came up with an idea to have some fun, as she did say, and that was to prank on Meredith, but it having just been silly, with them in line with Halloween, already just passed, inspired by Meredith and her appearance during Halloween, Knox thought it would be funny to act like scary characters, maybe it was dark in Meredith's room and she was in bed and they entered in the dark making silly noises like kids would playing at being ghosts and Meredith freaked out and as she was undressed it easily, along with Knox's encouragement towards both males, have led to a degrading attack involving a sexual element, as she was already undressed, and in reaction to the resistance from Meredith, somehow sparked the worst in the 3 of them but fuelled by Knox's easy to anger temperament, in which she acted as the driving force, the instigator and the director.

So when Meredith became freaked out and did not like the game, of them disturbing her and expecting her to laugh, I reckon Knox reacted in turn by transferring to a mentality of hey what, (from a position assumed by her as superior as a way to counter her inferiority complexes) don't say that to me, and from thereon in, it's easy to have things escalate even if Knox had no intention initially of causing Meredith any harm, the thing was, Knox did strange stuff and had problems that were niggling away just under the surface in and through everything she did and triggers meant she could go potty as a defence mechanism simply because she was deeply insecure, and people in front of her, that acted as a confrontation, in her mind, unconsciously, meant she was easy to set off. It means her mechanisms sparked of and started working when she had to deny her own problems, so that she could imagine she was worthy, at least as worthy but even better than someone else.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
This little conversation between Biscotti and Nadeau is probably the most info we have on who orchestrated the attack that night. Of course, Biscotti does not reveal it included Guede although it is not clear what he means when he says 'Amanda said to them both'. However, Guede never told it like this. He heard Meredith and Amanda arguing and saw her silhouette.

Quote:
“So he’s going to admit they all killed her together?” I asked.

“Rudy didn’t kill her, as I’ve told you many times,” he said. “Rudy is going to tell them what Amanda said to them both that night.”

“She told them to kill Meredith?”

“Directed Raffaele,” he said. “She orchestrated it all.”

“And he did whatever she said in exchange for what?”

“Sex,” he said. “Promises and enticements. Raffaele is weak.”

“And Rudy?”

“Rudy was in the bathroom; he came out and it was all over,” he said, repeating Rudy’s usual line. “Rudy has never changed his story.”
Latza Nadeau, Barbie. Angel Face: The True Story of Student Killer Amanda Knox.



Basically Biscotti's interpretation has been dictated /told to him by Guede but accepting that Guede was there, when his traces were found in and on Meredith, means that to explain that away, Biscotti is saying, Guede had consensual dealings with Meredith, however, when you look into what Meredith's direct contacts there said, it's clear than no way did Meredith have that type of contact with Guede.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
This little conversation between Biscotti and Nadeau is probably the most info we have on who orchestrated the attack that night. Of course, Biscotti does not reveal it included Guede although it is not clear what he means when he says 'Amanda said to them both'. However, Guede never told it like this. He heard Meredith and Amanda arguing and saw her silhouette.

Quote:
“So he’s going to admit they all killed her together?” I asked.

“Rudy didn’t kill her, as I’ve told you many times,” he said. “Rudy is going to tell them what Amanda said to them both that night.”

“She told them to kill Meredith?”

“Directed Raffaele,” he said. “She orchestrated it all.”

“And he did whatever she said in exchange for what?”

“Sex,” he said. “Promises and enticements. Raffaele is weak.”

“And Rudy?”

“Rudy was in the bathroom; he came out and it was all over,” he said, repeating Rudy’s usual line. “Rudy has never changed his story.”
Latza Nadeau, Barbie. Angel Face: The True Story of Student Killer Amanda Knox.


Of course, we know it couldn't have happened exactly like that, with Knox only directing, as Meredith was stabbed with two different knives. Raffaele wouldn't have been holding two knives...and someone would have to have been holding Meredith.

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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

A BIG welcome on your promotion, NeLL


Last edited by chami on Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

There were three people attacking Meredith that night. Two to restrain, one to attack. That is why Knox was bleeding. The only mystery so far: how did the three meet on November 01, and what time did they enter the cottage? I vote for around 9:30 pm.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

That's too early, for me.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
I am not speaking for Bettina, zorba, but know that several members of IIP/I-A have contacted her with messages of support and similar stories (but do not wish to speak publicly) and she may have heard this from them.


At least five other victims, of varying degrees, have emailed her. That's what I'm hearing.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
There were three people attacking Meredith that night. Two to restrain, one to attack. That is why Knox was bleeding. The only mystery so far: how did the three meet on November 01, and what time did they enter the cottage? I vote for around 9:30 pm.


For the sake of discussion, must one assume that 'two young lovebirds' in the glow of a new relationship, only ever involves 2 people? And, must one also assume that November 1st was the first time that Guede was included?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Ergon wrote:
There were three people attacking Meredith that night. Two to restrain, one to attack. That is why Knox was bleeding. The only mystery so far: how did the three meet on November 01, and what time did they enter the cottage? I vote for around 9:30 pm.


For the sake of discussion, must one assume that 'two young lovebirds' in the glow of a new relationship, only ever involves 2 people? And, must one also assume that November 1st was the first time that Guede was included?


No. We have no evidence to suggest otherwise, but that doesn't mean we have to assume that. It is wholly possible that Guede formed the third member of a triangle. But, it does mean that any such triangle can only ever be speculation. Unless, more information is forthcoming...

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:39 pm   Post subject: A NOTE TO PMF.ORG   

Just saw this from Bruce Fischer about Frank Sfarzo and Peggy Ganong, passed on in the spirit of cooperation.

Bruce Fischer Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:14 am
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Quote:
Jazz wrote:
Any chance that this Frank v. Bettina stuff could go to a separate thread about "Frank v. Bettina" or something, instead of cluttering up this thread, where some of us come to read the silliness of the various versions of pmf dot nut and pmf dot :batshit crazy: without having to actually go to those sites ourselves (which is greatly appreciated by the way)? Just asking.


Quote:
Bruce wrote:
I know the PMF's don't really understand our "today over at PMF" thread. They cannot see that we are now viewing for entertainment purposes.

I think we have exhausted the conversation about Frank and Bettina. Frank is going home and Bettina is moving on. Its funny that Frank is going back to Italy. It pretty much destroys the PMF's theory that Frank wants to avoid being there.

The truth is that no one knows all of the details of Frank's current issues in Italy. There are multiple issues that are unrelated. The CPJ is correct when they say that Mignini is abusing Frank. Thankfully the CPJ highlighted the abuse. This forum fully supports Frank with his struggles in this regard and we are proud that we were able to help collect donations in order to help him. Everyone that donated should feel proud to have helped a journalist that was being abused by Perugian authorities.

I a completely unrelated situation, Frank is also dealing with family matters. His mother suffers from alzheimer's disease and that can be very difficult for any family to deal with. Keep that in mind when reading Peggy Ganong's attempts to say that Frank's troubles are all do to a domestic dispute. She has no idea what she is talking about. It's despicable to see Ganong attempt to smear Frank with erroneous information about his family as he has to deal with a very painful emotional experience. I would appreciate it if this board would respect Frank's request for privacy when it comes to his family. I felt it was important to inform those here who have supported Frank that there are multiple unrelated unresolved issues that Frank is currently dealing with. PMF has no idea what they are talking about so they have taken the bits and pieces they have collected and molded them all together into one storyline. This is why nothing that PMF says can be trusted.

PMF will continue to speculate. That speculation should be given no credibility. We will not discuss details here until Frank's trial has concluded out of respect for Frank. We will do nothing to help Mignini and discussing Frank's case would risk doing that.

Frank's involvement with this case and his current struggles with Mignini are relevant here. Frank's private life has no bearing on anything related to the case or this forum.

I am sorry if I have been short with anyone here. I have meant no disrespect to any members here who have supported Frank and were just looking for answers. Patience will help us all.

If people here feel we should create another thread for this topic that's fine. I am not sure we have much more to discuss but if a new thread is needed, let us know here or in a PM. If we see enough support for that we will create it.


Nope, Bruce, Frank is going back to Italy, and I'll believe that when I see him appear in court, because he burned all his bridges. Plus no one wanted to marry him :)

His sponsors will have to accept some responsibility for that debacle, er, 'Frank's private life'.

And I-A members who also were abused or simply looking for answers are welcome to continue coming here to read the uncensored version of what transpired during his visit here.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Bruce says:

Quote:
We will do nothing to help Mignini and discussing Frank's case would risk doing that.


You betcha, Bruce.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Knock knocka

Prison Perugia: Who's there-er

It's me, Franco Free Lunch

Prison: Well, what you want

Franco: The room please

Prison: We have it all ready, welcome

Franco: Thank you, I pay nothng and you are all losers and failures and nobodies

Prison: Yes yes, you'll be alright, hard when you haven't got a pot to piss in isn't it, everyone else is a nobody then right, you are not though eh, you are fantastico, sicuro, sure

Franco: Essatamente

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Bruce also states:

Quote:
Frank's involvement with this case and his current struggles with Mignini are relevant here. Frank's private life has no bearing on anything related to the case or this forum.


Does the request from Chris Mellas asking to have Amanda's phone number deleted from Frank's phone fall under "case related" or "private life"?

ETA: Correction made to name from Curt Knox to Chris Mellas.


Last edited by Napia5 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Bruce also states:

Quote:
Frank's involvement with this case and his current struggles with Mignini are relevant here. Frank's private life has no bearing on anything related to the case or this forum.


Does the request from Curt Knox asking to have Amanda's phone number deleted from Frank's phone fall under "case related" or "private life"?


Hi Napia,

According to Bettina it was Chris Mellas who asked her to delete Amanda Knox's contact information from Sfarzo's phone, which is surprising, because there was a time when Chris Mellas and Frank Sfarzo were really close, hanging out in Perugia.

Here they are seen presenting the website "Friends of Amanda":

Image

Bettina, a long time supporting member of Bruce Fischer's forum, wrote also about her conversation with Chris Mellas on IA:

Bettina wrote:

Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:38 am
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 6:04 am
Posts: 104

B_Real wrote:
MichaelB wrote:
My opinion is Frank can't be trusted if the allegations about him are true. I hope every effort is made to find out what Frank is alleged to have said about supporters to Bettina. I hope he is in no position to ever cause harm to the family.. She is alleging he spoke badly about supporters behind their backs. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to realise what Bettina's words might be inferring surely?


But what do the Knoxes currently have to do with Frank? Are they providing his housing, or are you suggesting they are paying him, or what?


My words are the truth. I did not know if f was in jail after the first day. Chris Mellas asked me to delete Amandas info from Franks phone. He said F was a mooch and a user. Say it...stand behind it. Frank went to jail and I have bruises on my leg. Got it??????

I nvited Frank to enjoy my island....but he was abusive from the first minutes. The police do not arrest the average tourist. Frank threatened to sue them, so they escorted him out. He was booked into Kona jail under the name Sforca. At no time did I fight with frank. Hell, I wanted him to leave after the first day.
Blame me if you wish.....I don't care. I turned to pmf after frank told a story, yet my post was deleted. Go home Sforza
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Thanks, Nell.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Seeing Chris M's face next to Mr Franco's, it makes me almost feel sorry for him, as Franco's face doesn't look pleasant.

Though of course they will not admit it, Knox's family has been through hell, not because of what happened to her, but what she did, and they cannot face the truth, but, well, what with her telling them lies, I guess they couldn't think straight, but then actually in real life, dealing with people who are truly twisted, like Franco, must shock them even though I'm sure at a certain point they knew they couldn't go back and had to keep pretending to themselves that they believed Knox A. They must feel bad deep down, it's inhuman to deny so much, like deny your own instincts and common sense, that's what leads to mental illness and cancer, etc, or better said, to other complaints as a resuilt of stress like abuse of substances or alcohol to escape your nervousness.

I mean up until Knox's problems I expect that her stepfather and her mother were very happy, I cannot imagine they really are that now. I wonder if they think it was worth it, to twist stuff and force things the way they actively have, because they've lost their dignity and integrity and you cannot just get that back, the wrong is far too voluminous.

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
--- snip ---

Seeing Chris M's face next to Mr Franco's, it makes me almost feel sorry for him, as Franco's face doesn't look pleasant.

--- snap ---


Hmm, Mellas doesn't look like a winner either.


zorba wrote:
Though of course they will not admit it, Knox's family has been through hell, not because of what happened to her, but what she did, and they cannot face the truth, but, well, what with her telling them lies, I guess they couldn't think straight, but then actually in real life, dealing with people who are truly twisted, like Franco, must shock them even though I'm sure at a certain point they knew they couldn't go back and had to keep pretending to themselves that they believed Knox A. They must feel bad deep down, it's inhuman to deny so much, like deny your own instincts and common sense, that's what leads to mental illness and cancer, etc, or better said, to other complaints as a resuilt of stress like abuse of substances or alcohol to escape your nervousness.

I mean up until Knox's problems I expect that her stepfather and her mother were very happy, I cannot imagine they really are that now. I wonder if they think it was worth it, to twist stuff and force things the way they actively have, because they've lost their dignity and integrity and you cannot just get that back, the wrong is far too voluminous.


I feel Sfarzo and Amanda's family deserve each other. Sfarzo saw the opportunity to insert himself into a high profile case involving an American defendant whose parents would spare no expenses to get her free. He gave them a platform to attack and smear Giuiliano Mignini and the Italian police in an effort to make himself a name.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi Nell,

Well, you know I can never find a half decent word for any of these, but the important word I did use was ALMOST, haha, that's a kind of proviso or subject to clause from Article 3, subsection 2, paragrapgh 1, and will be governed by International Law.

Therefore, I agree fully and think the same stuff, it isn't good even trying to excuse any of them at any level in any way, I know that, as they knew full well, but I do also mean, in reality, will they really be so pleased, so happy, so okay now that they carry their own willingness to deceive around with them, it means they've been taken completely out of any former way of life, taken out by their own actions, so they are also not normal any more and that must have an effect on them.

I see that as actually being part of the murder, through behaving that way.
They could or might just have well killed Meredith themselves, it's the same, as they have stuck the knife in time and again after her death, by keeping the lies up.


It's all an exercise in extreme selfishness.

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
--- snip ---

I think this should be emphasised; Bettina was in the process of pressing harassment charges against Frank. The only reason she is now not doing so, is because Frank has agreed to leave the island this weekend.

--- snap ---


Meanwhile Bruce Fischer keeps insisting that Frank Sfarzo's arrest in Hawaii was a non-event.

Her bruises have been photographed by police and Frank was arrested, so something did happen.

As it is painfully obvious that Bruce is not the brightest bulb in the box I will help him along to gain a basic understanding between the difference of having a case dismissed with and without prejudice by quoting Ergon's telephone conversation with Kona District Court again.

Ergon wrote:
Here I was thinking I'd already wasted too much time on Frank, then he does the bone headed thing again. Bruce Fischer may want to know that yes, though Frank's case was dismissed, (on November 19, 2012), it was 'without prejudice'. I spoke to the Kona District Court, Third Division office, today, and they confirmed it meant that the case was still open and he could be brought back at any time if there's a recurrence of the harassment. They wouldn't give the case file number over the phone, but (had a hard time finding it, since it was under the name Francesco Sforca-a misspelling of Sforza, I'm sure) did confirm the details I'm giving.

I let the court know that Frank was supposed to be in Italy for another court hearing on a similar charge, and the nice lady that answered my questions shared the irony of this.

Bettina told me that Frank, being Frank, has sent several threatening texts to her, so I let the court know of this development, and that she can file another complaint and have him arrested again. She can then request a restraining order, or even make it a requirement of avoiding jail time that he leave Hawaii. Bettina told me, quite emphatically, that she does NOT have any of Frank's property, so he may want to revise his FB post, which is still up, by the way, that "I have been robbed by a member of pmf, who I will report to the police tomorrow if I don't receive my belongings back", in the same way I posted Bettina's clarification she did not know how long he was in jail except the overnight, and I also posted I-A's denial as well.

I see Bruce has issued an attack on Bettina's credibility and that he finds the statements not believable. He might want to look to Frank and advise him to stop issuing threats, they make him look foolish and really get him off the island he seems to want to stay in. He might want to stop attacking me too, since it is just a simple matter to find out whether he's barred from entering Canada, and the circumastances thereof. And if Bruce will not do that, then perhaps one of Frank's 'friends'?

In summary it can be said that if a case is dismissed with prejudice it means that the same charges cannot be refiled against you. If a case is dismissed without prejudice it means that the same charges can be re-filed or reinstated against you. Not surprising that Sfarzo is fleeing the island as a preemptive move in case Bettina has a change of heart.


A little recap of Bruce Fischer's various attempts to attack Bettina's character and her credibility:

Bruce Fischer wrote:
Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:59 pm
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Ergon is talking to Bettina. He claims it is has nothing to do with us, he just wants to help someone in need. The guy has absolutely no credibility. What a pathetic excuse for a human being.

Anyway, the details are all wrong. Bettina could not remember what day the incident occurred so she will have to get back to Ergon on that. I find that strange.

Bettina said Frank was in jail all week awaiting his hearing. That is false. I have been talking to Frank and I know he is not in jail. He is in a hotel using the hotel computer to communicate with me. Not Jail. So the misinformation continues to flow as usual from .net.

I have obtained the police report and the charge is a misdemeanor harassment charge. They offered Frank a deal to plead guilty to the minor charge and pay $100 fine but Frank refused. He wants the truth to prevail.

We will not be posting any documents until the hearing has concluded. There is no reason to give PMF information they can use to harass those involved. Bettina may very well offer that information but we certainly will not.

I am disappointed that Bettina has decided to go to PMF to tell her story. I find that behavior to be highly suspect. She can tell Ergon anything, facts don't matter to him.

She has been a long time contributor here so its a shame to see her acting like this. She is still a member here and it welcome to tell her side of the story as long as the other speculation about the group that is non-related is not included.

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To be fair, Bettina addressed this matter in Bruce's forum first, but her post was deleted. Only then and because of this action she decided to post here. Ergon was able to copy the comment in question before it was deleted:

Bettina wrote:
Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:17 pm
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 3:04 pm
Posts: 104

Thanks to everybody who called to support me in my time of need. Indeed I have learned many shameful things about the great truth teller from Perugia. Layer upon layer of lies, theft and bad treatment of supporters...some of it criminal. So sad.

I have been a faithful supporter and true friend thru the years. I financed his vacation to the islands. Nothing made him happy. He mocked me, told me I was a waste of flesh, and angered the locals with his arrogance.

He spoke badly of the many people who helped him....

Indeed, this has been most revealing. I believe the truth is good enough.

Sad but wiser, Bettina



Bruce Fischer wrote:
Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:41 pm
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According to Frank, he and Bettina had an argument, Bettina became angry and threw some luggage at him in the hotel room and was violent toward him. She told him she was going to call the police and say he was beating her. He said go ahead. Bettina called the police in the hotel room with Frank in the room with her. If Frank pushed her out of the room (as Bettina claims in her police statement) then how did she call the police from inside the room? If Frank was being violent then why was the call placed from the room Frank was in? Wouldn't it have been more logical for Bettina to go to the front desk to get help if Frank pushed her? Why go back in the room? Additionally, wouldn't Frank have tried to prevent that call if he was being violent as Bettina suggests?

Bettina's story doesn't add up. Her behavior after the incident is suspect as well. She took Frank's phone when he was taken to the police station and she contacted everyone on his phone's contact list to tell them Frank was a fraud and now the entire world would know. Is this normal behavior from someone that was just assaulted? Sounds vindictive to me.

It is disappointing to have to post this information about a member here but I feel its necessary now that Bettina has decided to spread misinformation about the incident.

This is nothing more than an argument between two adults that got out of hand. The small fine ($100) suggested by the court is proof of that.

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Bruce Fischer took sides and published Frank Sfarzo's version of events, accusing Bettina of violent behaviour. He concluded that Bettina's story was doubtful and her behaviour suspect.


Frank Sfarzo has now been arrested three times that we know of, in three different countries - two of them far out of reach of prosecutor Giuliano Mignini. It is also worth of note by who Frank Sfarzo has been reported to police: in Perugia by his mother, in Canada by his host Peter and in Hawaii by Bettina, another of Frank's generous supporters who paid for his travel expenses and paid for his accommodation.

Peter Hoemberg has never publicly spoken about his altercation with Sfarzo, but it is a fact that Frank has been banished from Canada and he has been tight lipped about what led to his banning.




Bruce Fischer wrote:
Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:08 pm
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I thought I was pretty clear. I think the entire conversation is getting ridiculous. I am not going to keep repeating myself over and over again. If people want to continue debating the non-charges against Frank and keep second guessing the decisions of this board then feel free to do so.

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As a last resort Bruce Fischer exercises his authority to hush those up who have questions or express concern.


The donation scam:

Sarah wrote:

Post subject: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:21 pm
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http://perugiashock.com/

There is a donate button on his website. I know not everyone can afford to help him, but there is likely some on this forum that could and will.

He's looking for a new place with limited money. He also just had to pay the police for beating him up.


By giving this distorted and simply false information, it could be argued that Bruce Fischer and Sarah Snyder are calling to support Frank Sfarzo under false pretences. Member e470jph, Frank's Canadian host, was even given Frank's email address to make an offer.

Sarah wrote:

Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:48 pm
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e740jph wrote:
How much does he need? I'm willing to help. :?:


e740jph,

I don't know what is going on with Frank. He wanted to move to a less expensive place before he lost the apt but I don't think he has moved yet. He was having a problem with his Paypal account and don't know if that is fixed yet either.

Here is his email if you want to contact with an offer - 2befrank@gmail.com

Otherwise I would donate only what you can afford and will be fine with. His writing certainly has been worth supporting.

Thank you for your interest in helping Frank. :)


Sarah wrote:
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:17 am
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Frank has had his first court date for beating up the police.
It was only a technical hearing.

The next trial date is scheduled for May 16th.

He could use all the help he can get at this time.


The supposed harassment of "investigative journalist" Frank Sfarzo was used by Bruce Fischer, Douglas Preston, Candace Dempsey and even the CPJ as a mainstay in supporting their unsubstantiated accusations of harassment to smear Giuliano Mignini. No proof has ever been provided that such harassment has taken place. It is embarrassing to learn years later that the police showed up at his apartment because his mother called them due to a domestic violence dispute. Mignini wasn't involved or to blame.

Frank good-for-nothing Sfarzo was taking advantage of his supporters financially and if I had donated to his "cause" and learned about the collection of donations from Sarah Snyder and Bruce Fischer of IA, I would think of them as partly responsible.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Thanks for the recap, Nell, it needed to be said. Despite efforts to undermine Bettina/tamale's integrity, every thing she wrote has been confirmed. Frank Sfarzo did continue to issue threats against her, when he thought he could get away with it. If we here at PMF.NET had not supported her, he would still be 'on holiday' in the island, having 5-10 dollar cocktails paid for by his supporters and donations collected on his website. Only when he found out that she was going to file another complaint that he arranged to return to Seattle, and from there, hopefully, back to Italy.

It's a pity that the Friends Of Amanda Knox managed to bamboozle the CPJ, various media organizations, and genuine Innocence Projects (I do not consider Innocence Anywhere genuine) Now that he's been found out, they will all have to suffer the loss of their credibility.

Last week, Canadians were shocked to find out that a Salvation Army official had systematically defrauded the organization of over $2 million collected in their Annual Christmas collection. This has caused many to withhold their donations this year. A lesson that other organizations, seeking to profit from the murder of Meredith Kercher, might want to keep in mind.
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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Sorry to be the late one to the party but CONGRATS TO NELL :) x
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

It's even worse. Bruce Fisher and Frank Sforza have sunk to new lows of lying in order to gain sympathy from their supporters and critics alike. The new lie, is that many of Frank's problems are down to his having to cope with a mother suffering from alzheimer's disease. The old 'sick mother' routine.

I decided to follow this up and look into it. I am currently speaking to someone who personally knew Frank and his set-up. Like everything else, it's a load of lies! His mother doesn't have alzheimer's disease, any more then you or I do, and Frank does NOTHING to look after his mother. It is Frank's SISTERS that look after his mother and from what I am hearing, they spend all their time doing their best to keep their mother the hell away from Frank! Indeed, when Frank was trying to get into his new place, he was plotting how he could steal as much of his mother's furniture from her flat as possible to furnish it!

Frank's family may well have decided not to press charges against him for domestic violence, as that's not the way things are done in Italy, but they certainly haven't forgiven him for it and they keep as far away from him as possible!

And has Sforza been caring for his 'sick mother with alzheimer's' all these past months whilst he's been running around living it up in the United States, Canada and Hawaii on everyone else's dime??? I don't think so!

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
It's a pity that the Friends Of Amanda Knox managed to bamboozle the CPJ, various media organizations, and genuine Innocence Projects (I do not consider Innocence Anywhere genuine) Now that he's been found out, they will all have to suffer the loss of their credibility.


Oh, it's quite easily done, since the CPJ performed no fact checking on the story whatsoever. They spoke to Frank Sforza and they spoke to Douglas Preston and called that fact checking the story.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Like Mr Franco somehow thinks he might convince the entire world that the second largest cvountry in the world, a huge country, with so many different things, a very great and fantastic country called Canada, is no good, just because he couldn't take over the courts, police force, government, people's homes, I mean really, he needs to go back to peddling salami, it's safer for him.

It's like the whole world is supposedly, in Franco's minds, gonna say, hey you see what that Canadian did to that one Italian who keeps beating women up,

But someone told him no, and now he says, don't go to Canada, so none of us are supposed to go, the world's population, just because one scrounger says so, it's so pathetic, nobody in the whole wide world. Whatever is he thinking.

Frank says everyone is a nothing except for him.

I imagine his name won't be that welcome around Perugia as people will not like what he has been doing, he has been helping create a totally warped imagine of Perugia, Per-u-gi-a which is one of the best places in Italy, renowned for its ''gente multo gentile'' or very gentle and kind people,

so you simply don't get that sort of nutty huge city police stuff
where there are sometimes abusers,
Perugia is simply not that kind of area,
your environment affects your behaviour and that includes the behaviour of everyone because basically people are very happy in Perugia, it's famous in Italy, Toscana, all those wonderful places, everyone loves to to reside there with all of the magic,
you didn't see the Knox lot/hounds complaining about that, no because everything they say is nonsense, and the enjoyed the food & wine and delightful sights and atmosphere while there and at the same time tried to do exactly what Franco does with his boycott Canada. It is incredibly backwards.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

And if Fischer's followers don't believe that they have been thoroughly conned by Bruce Fischer, Sarah Snyder and Frank Sforza, then listen up.

One of the primary reasons given in the fundraising for Frank, was that he desperately needed funds to pay his rent. Frank is unemployed! He may have blogged, but he has no income, that is not a paid job. This is Europe, this is Italy, this isn't America. In Italy, as in Britain, the unemployed have full legal entitlement not only to regular welfare payments to fund their living expenses (food, electric etc), they also have full legal entitlement to having their rent paid by the state. In the UK, it's called Housing Benefit. In Italy, the state pays the rents of the unemployed, yet here is Frank coming to you claiming he needs money to pay his rent. And you've been giving it to him.

You're all being taken for a ride. If I were you, I'd be demanding some answers from Bruce Fischer and Sarah Snyder!

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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Yay Nell! Congrats
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hey Michael.
Wasn't RG getting those very benefits?
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Sure, he was entitled to them.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

chami wrote:
A BIG welcome on your promotion, NeLL


daisysteiner wrote:
Sorry to be the late one to the party but CONGRATS TO NELL :) x


dgfred wrote:
Yay Nell! Congrats



Thank you!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

dgfred wrote:
Hey Michael.
Wasn't RG getting those very benefits?


Hi dgfred,
I don't know for a fact if he was receiving them, but he was certainly entitled to it.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I can confirm Frank has now left Hawaii and is now in Seattle!

How much money does he have left? How long remains on his visa? Will he go back to Perugia, when and will he go willingly?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
dgfred wrote:
Hey Michael.
Wasn't RG getting those very benefits?


Hi dgfred,
I don't know for a fact if he was receiving them, but he was certainly entitled to it.


In other words, he didn't "have" or "need" to burgle.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Frank at Peter's, before everything went horribly wrong:


Image

Frank + bottle of Screech = Oh dear!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
dgfred wrote:
Hey Michael.
Wasn't RG getting those very benefits?


Hi dgfred,
I don't know for a fact if he was receiving them, but he was certainly entitled to it.


In other words, he didn't "have" or "need" to burgle.


Of course not.

I believe Frank took advantage, because his donors are mostly from overseas where the social network is different from what we have in Europe.

His supporters must have also been gullible to some degree, because the 10,000 euros that Frank claims his landlord demanded as a security deposit are unrealistic. It has never been disclosed for what exactly the landlord would like to receive such a high deposit. That is unheard of.

That could have been an attempt of fraud. Frank Sfarzo hoped his supporters would be able and willing to raise 10,000 euros for him, so he might have lied about the needed sum.

I wrote in this post how security deposits work in Europe and about renting in Perugia. Whatever the 10,000 euros were meant for, it couldn't have been for a security deposit alone.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
--- snip ---

You're all being taken for a ride. If I were you, I'd be demanding some answers from Bruce Fischer and Sarah Snyder!

--- snap ---


Some of Bruce Fischer's membership are demanding answers, but he has made it very clear that he won't discuss Sfarzogate anymore.

One of his latest posts:

Bruce Fischer wrote:

Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:23 pm
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These articles detail the reasons why this forum recommended helping Frank Sfarzo when he was having financial trouble. The Committee to Protect Journalists is a very well respected organization and we trust their research.

April 19, 2011: In Italy, journalists threatened for reporting on murders
http://www.cpj.org/2011/04/journalists- ... er-cas.php

May 11, 2011: Italian prosecutor files defamation lawsuit, shutters blog
http://cpj.org/2011/05/italian-prosecut ... shutte.php

CPJ responds to readers' comments on Italy letter
https://cpj.org/blog/2011/04/cpj-respon ... letter.php

Frank's arrest on September 28, 2010 was authorized by Mignini. Frank's story about the police brutality that he endured was backed up by the CPJ. We have no reason to doubt the CPJ and have received no information to dispute their research.

If members of this forum feel they can no longer support Frank due to recent developments that is their individual decision to make. The recent developments I am referring to consist of two disagreements Frank has recently had with people he was staying with while visiting. Both were private matters that resulted in no charges being filed against either party in each case. Both incidents have been widely blown out or proportion online, which may lead some who have supported Frank financially to have concerns. Injustice Anywhere sees no connection between these recent events and Frank's current struggles in Italy. Injustice Anywhere has acquired no information suggesting that we should stop supporting Frank, and until we do, Frank will continue to have our support.

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For the first time Bruce Fischer confirms publicly that Bettina's dispute was not an isolated incident. It is obvious that you don't get kicked out of Canada for nothing and that police is not called to assist in a situation for a simple "disagreement".

Keep dreaming Brucie.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
dgfred wrote:
Hey Michael.
Wasn't RG getting those very benefits?


Hi dgfred,
I don't know for a fact if he was receiving them, but he was certainly entitled to it.


In other words, he didn't "have" or "need" to burgle.


Of course not.

I believe Frank took advantage, because his donors are mostly from overseas where the social network is different from what we have in Europe.

His supporters must have also been gullible to some degree, because the 10,000 euros that Frank claims his landlord demanded as a security deposit are unrealistic. It has never been disclosed for what exactly the landlord would like to receive such a high deposit. That is unheard of.

That could have been an attempt of fraud. Frank Sfarzo hoped his supporters would be able and willing to raise 10,000 euros for him, so he might have lied about the needed sum.

I wrote in this post how security deposits work in Europe and about renting in Perugia. Whatever the 10,000 euros were meant for, it couldn't have been for a security deposit alone.



Yes, we only have Frank's word for that figure. And that figure is decidedly dodgy. However, were such a figure demanded or it was anything close to that figure, I think we can piece together exactly WHY.

Frank used to live with Mama. Mama used to pay the rent, it being out of her pension, so Frank never had to. Then one day, Frank's domestic abuse got so bad Mama had to call the police, who duly arrested Frank, an arrest Frank resisted, and took him away. Whilst Mama and Frank's sisters would drop the charges against Frank, he was no longer allowed to live with Mama, leaving Frank having to find a new place of his own. But, there was a big problem. Frank no longer had Mama's pension to pay the rent, had no job and so no income, had no capital or assets and now had a police record to boot. So, understandably, the landlord demanded a hefty deposit to hedge a very bad bet.

And there, in a nutshell, you have it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I suspect he made the amount for the security deposit up. They don't ask for your criminal record when you rent a place. The landlord wouldn't have asked for anything more than what he was entitled to.

I believe Frank asked for a higher amount with the hope to be set up for some time.

It is a possibility.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Well, he needed to furnish his new flat too. He had no furniture. All the furniture he'd had in his previous home was Mama's. He now, also had to pay all the bills for his new flat too. Frank also wanted to remain living the way his spoiled little arse had become accustomed to, during the days when his lifestyle was funded by Mama and his sisters. This may explain Frank's vastly inflated figure.

I should also imagine, the landlord demanded several months rent in advance.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I bet then he was a party person, out all night, even still up at an after after party, then an after after after party after after party, I know how it all goes, and so then only thing he could hold down, was a blog, instead of a job, and going out all the time costs a packet, even if you only drink beer, but as he seems to like the more expensive things, and then of course, it's easy to imagine some people wanting to live like a king in Italy with so much there to do, quaint little cafes and bars, restaurants, trattorias, hosterias, pizzerias, a person could get a taste for never cooking and being out all the time, however, I've only met the odd person here or there who could really do it all the time, unless selling coke, or hash or something like that, or being plain rich. I've known one English guy who looked like a hippie, who was always scrounging but he always had money, which he preferred not to part with, in every way, in every instance, like getting out of a taxi, he'd take his time and act like he could not get his hand into his pocket, going into bars, even if he was first, he'd immediately dart to a table, make contact with someone, and so avoid buying any drinks. Yet he was the one out every single day, going off on holidays, buying stuff for himself, he would work a day, at most a week, and then stop, when someone who really needed money could never mess around like that. He told nobody how he did it, acting like he was the same as everyone else, as he drank your beer, smoked your weed, and grabbed every other thing he could too. His dad was so into money, and had bought property, land and had developed stuff, was a builder anyhow, and into stockholding & buying shares, but this son of his let him invest for him, and also let dad register his name, instead of his own and dad could thus avoid tax, and so this guy was living like a real playboy off the interest. But he was plain nasty when it came down to it. Good luck to anyone who is well off but if they then pretend to be broke like my ex-friend did then it's not nice, I reckon Frank liked that kind of lifestyle, out in the dance places all the time, getting home as the sun comes up, that's how he is in debt.

Frank though, he simply has no money, no job, no career, and so like his heroes, or the ones he picked up on, he blames the world. The picture with the bottle man, he looks far meaner than I imagined. His face reflects the bitterness.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Bruce Fischer should be ashamed of himself. It's exactly this kind of excuse making, sweeping stuff under the rug, dismissing of those that raise concerns, that enabled the likes of Jimmy Saville to abuse children while on the pay of the BBC and British public for over 40 years!

Oh, everyone knows Jimmy Saville is eccentric! No...he wasn't eccentric, he was a child molester!

Oh, everyone knows Frank is a bit of a brat! No, he isn't a brat, he's a conning, lying, abusive, misogynistic narcissist!

And this is who Bruce is apologising for. This is who Bruce Fischer is raising money for. This is who Bruce is allowing to visit defenceless women's homes without warning them about Frank. Bruce shares responsibility for what happened to Bettina. Just as he shares responsibility for whatever happens to Frank's next victim, considering according to Bruce, Frank is just dandy and retains his full support whilst deleting those who raise concerns, including Frank's victims, from his website.

What sort of 'justice' is it exactly that you represent, Bruce? Tell us again!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
Well, he needed to furnish his new flat too. He had no furniture. All the furniture he'd had in his previous home was Mama's. He now, also had to pay all the bills for his new flat too. Frank also wanted to remain living the way his spoiled little arse had become accustomed to, during the days when his lifestyle was funded by Mama and his sisters. This may explain Frank's vastly inflated figure.

I should also imagine, the landlord demanded several months rent in advance.



If Frank had planned to "start fresh" with furniture and everything included, he didn't point it out to his supporters. I have also never read at IA that he was living with his mother, so I have to wonder if they were even aware of it.

The official version was that he already lived in a rented apartment - not with his mother - and that all of a sudden the landlord asked him for an outrageous security deposit of 10,000 euros that he couldn't afford to pay.

Because he couldn't afford the security deposit, he was forced to leave. A security deposit is paid at the beginning of a tenancy, so it makes me wonder why the landlord would ask for it after the tenant has already moved in?

What is even more amazing is that none of his financial benefactors ever asked these question and just forked over the money, blaming Sfarzo's financial ruin on Mignini.


e740jph wrote:
Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:47 am
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Frank is 'restoring' the lost parts from his old Google-based blog. He wants to save the whole blog as a complete package so that it can be a continuing reference once the blog closes and he moves to new things.
If his court case does not go well he may end up in jail and certainly will no longer be able to blog. If he wins, he'll wrap up the loose ends (Supreme court, calunnia charges, etc. etc.) and move on to new journalistic projects. He may well move to North America for this. He is currently mapping out the main theme for a new blog.

As I previously said in the main thread, his court case is on May 16th and his landlord will change the locks on May 18th. So he only has 4 weeks to wrap things up.

He cannot hang on to his current place since his landlord wants an outrageous 10,000 euros as a security deposit. One has to wonder if his landlord fears the gentle hand of Mignini?

I hope this explains this.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
If Frank had planned to "start fresh" with furniture and everything included, he didn't point it out to his supporters. I have also never read at IA that he was living with his mother, so I have to wonder if they were even aware of it.


Evidently, they weren't. They are now!

Nell wrote:
The official version was that he already lived in a rented apartment - not with his mother - and that all of a sudden the landlord asked him for an outrageous security deposit of 10,000 euros that he couldn't afford to pay.


He lived in a rented apartment with his mother and sisters and the rent was paid by his mother, with her pension. Then, he got kicked out.

Does it make any sense that someone suddenly needs a vast amount of cash for an apartment they've always lived in? Of course not. It suddenly makes a lot more sense when one finds out the truth, which is that he had to move out of his old apartment into a brand new one. Of course, his followers didn't need to be told all the details like that, not when Frank has Magic Mignini to blame everything on.

Nell wrote:
Because he couldn't afford the security deposit, he was forced to leave. A security deposit is paid at the beginning of a tenancy, so it makes me wonder why the landlord would ask for it after the tenant has already moved in?


Exactomundo!

Nell wrote:
What is even more amazing is that none of his financial benefactors ever asked these question and just forked over the money, blaming Sfarzo's financial ruin on Mignini.


Exactly again. The Mignini myth (slander) was the smokescreen for the great con.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

In other news, a prosecutor in Bari has called for the case against the Sollecito family and Telenorba station for broadcasting the crime scene video of Meredith's body to be dropped. Thanks to Jools at .ORG for the link: http://www.umbria24.it/meredith-la-proc ... 32289.html

Basically, his argument is that the video showing Meredith's body and gaping wound was "in the public interest" since it was followed by a discussion of experts discussing how the wound was inflicted. The hearing is scheduled for January 13. Hmm.

These people are sick.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Yes E... Maresca mentions "obsene". Perfect description IMO.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Further to the above, "Francesco Maresca, the lawyer acting for the family of Meredith Kercher, stated the reproduction of images transmitted by Telenorba "attacked the moral rights of the victim (to privacy)". Arguing against the request to dismiss the Florentine lawyer adds that "the purpose of the television service was just to highlight the naked body of the victim and not simply to comment on the severity of the wounds. Can not be considered mere freedom of the press: the images are 'obscene'. " The hearing to discuss the request is scheduled for Jan. 13 in front of the magistrate in Bari. The accused were defended by lawyers Marco Brusco, Francesco Crisis, and Francesco Paolo Sisto Mastro".

My rough translation, sorry.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Bari prosecutor Antonio Laudati also arguing that the wire-tapping (that caught the Sollecito's involvement in leaking the tapes) "Now asks for the case to be dismissed, since the (illegal?) use of wiretaps - concludes Laudati - does not allow you to support the charge in court against the suspects, relatives of Raffaele," whose involvement is revealed only by wire-tapping not to mention that some of the offenses are now extinct (past the statute of limitations?) .

Rough translation again by non-Italian speaker Ergon, sorry.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Here's the list of those charged, that the prosecutor asks for the case to be dismissed: "the director of the (Network) Telenorba, Enzo Magus, the journalist of the TV show "The Scratch" aired in April 2008 and some relatives of Raffaele Sollecito, Achilles Rosaria, Maria Papagni, Francesco and Giuseppe Sollecito. "
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
In other news, a prosecutor in Bari has called for the case against the Sollecito family and Telenorba station for broadcasting the crime scene video of Meredith's body to be dropped. Thanks to Jools at .ORG for the link: http://www.umbria24.it/meredith-la-proc ... 32289.html

Basically, his argument is that the video showing Meredith's body and gaping wound was "in the public interest" since it was followed by a discussion of experts discussing how the wound was inflicted. The hearing is scheduled for January 13. Hmm.

These people are sick.


Hi Ergon and thanks for posting the link.

I've seen that Jools on .org has translated the article:

Jools on .org wrote:
Meredith, the Procura of Bari asks case to be dismissed against Telenorba and members of the Sollecito family.

The request will be discuss on January 13.

Request to dismiss case in one of the linked processes that originated from the principal process of the murder of Meredith Kercher. And 'the procura of Bari request to dismissed the case of the director of the Puglia network Telenorba, Enzo Magista', the journalist of the TV show “Il Graffio” aired in April 2008 and some relatives of Raffaele Sollecito: Rosaria Achilles, Maria Papagni, Francesco and Giuseppe Sollecito. “The broadcast of some parts of the video in regard of the investigation carried out by the scientific police in the house in which the body of Meredith Kercher was found --as written in the request to be archived--, in which [film] shows the naked body of the victim, took place in the scope of the right to freedom of the press without any intention of attacking the reputation of the murdered student.”

No offense. According to the prosecutor in Bari Antonio Laudati, “it cannot be deemed offensive to common decency, the showing in particular of the wound on Meredith’s neck, since the images were accompanied by a criminology discussion on how the wound had been inflicted. The same, [images] however, are less offensive than many other bloody images that are transmitted daily on TV. The publication of images by Telenorba occurred in the scope of exercising the right to report on an event which had aroused special interest among the public.”

The competent jurisdiction. The investigation was started by the Procura of Perugia that, in various headings, charged alleged crimes related to defamation, violation of privacy and publication of arbitrary acts of investigation. In October 2011 then was the GUP of Perugia to declare it was the territorial jurisdiction of Bari. However, now Bari asks it to be archived. “The unusability of the intercepted phone tapping - concludes Laudati - does not allow to support the charge in court against the suspects, relatives of Raffaele, “whose involvement is revealed only from the tapping” not to mention that “some offenses are wipe out.”

The opposition. For Francesco Maresca, the lawyer acting for the family of Meredith Kercher, “in the reproduction of images” transmitted by Telenorba it had “attacked the moral sphere of the victim.” In opposition to the request to dismiss, the Florentine lawyer adds that “the purpose of the televised piece was just to show the naked body of the victim and not simply to comment on the severity of the inflicted wounds. It cannot be considered mere freedom of the press: the images are ‘obscene’.

The hearing at witch the request will be discussed is scheduled for Jan 13 in front of the GIP of Bari. The accused are defended by lawyers Marco Brusco, Francesco Crisi, Paolo Sisto and Francesco Mastro.
http://www.umbria24.it/meredith-la-proc ... 32289.html

Source for translation
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

So first they had the Sollecito case moved from Perugia to Bari, and now Bari wants to drop it? Yah yah.... Clever move by...Bongiorno again?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
So first they had the Sollecito case moved from Perugia to Bari, and now Bari wants to drop it? Yah yah.... Clever move by...Bongiorno again?


I guess I speak for other members here as well when I say that there was a presentiment that the Sollecito's wouldn't have to face any consequences for leaking the crime scene video showing Meredith's body after they managed to get the case moved to Bari.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
So first they had the Sollecito case moved from Perugia to Bari, and now Bari wants to drop it? Yah yah.... Clever move by...Bongiorno again?



So what then...is the Jan 13 hearing merely a formality so that the Bari prosecutor can request that the case be archived?

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
max wrote:
So first they had the Sollecito case moved from Perugia to Bari, and now Bari wants to drop it? Yah yah.... Clever move by...Bongiorno again?

So what then...is the Jan 13 hearing merely a formality so that the Bari prosecutor can request that the case be archived?

We will see, but I expect so since it is the prosecutor of Bari himself who is requesting this. Doesn't necessarily have to mean the judge will agree of course. The prosecutor is not the judge after all :)
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

No, but I can't imagine that it's too likely that a judge will overrule a prosecutor's request that a case be dismissed, I mean, that can't happen too often. We are also talking about a Bari judge in a Bari court here. What is certain, is that Maresca's up against it. The poor Kerchers...when they haven't even got the prosecutor on their side, what chance have they got?!

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Bruce Fischer wrote:

Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:23 pm
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These articles detail the reasons why this forum recommended helping Frank Sfarzo when he was having financial trouble. The Committee to Protect Journalists is a very well respected organization and we trust their research.

April 19, 2011: In Italy, journalists threatened for reporting on murders
http://www.cpj.org/2011/04/journalists- ... er-cas.php

May 11, 2011: Italian prosecutor files defamation lawsuit, shutters blog
http://cpj.org/2011/05/italian-prosecut ... shutte.php

CPJ responds to readers' comments on Italy letter
https://cpj.org/blog/2011/04/cpj-respon ... letter.php

Frank's arrest on September 28, 2010 was authorized by Mignini. Frank's story about the police brutality that he endured was backed up by the CPJ. We have no reason to doubt the CPJ and have received no information to dispute their research.

If members of this forum feel they can no longer support Frank due to recent developments that is their individual decision to make. The recent developments I am referring to consist of two disagreements Frank has recently had with people he was staying with while visiting. Both were private matters that resulted in no charges being filed against either party in each case. Both incidents have been widely blown out or proportion online, which may lead some who have supported Frank financially to have concerns. Injustice Anywhere sees no connection between these recent events and Frank's current struggles in Italy. Injustice Anywhere has acquired no information suggesting that we should stop supporting Frank, and until we do, Frank will continue to have our support.

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I have already copied this post above in the same thread and commented on it, but there is something I would like to add:

The police were called to a home due to a domestic violence incident. The police officers can make an arrest right away, no authorisation from a prosecutor is required. Besides, the prosecutor who is handling the trial in Perugia against Frank Sfarzo is Paolo Abbritti. It is not Giuliano Mignini.


The lack of basic fact checking on the part of the CPJ led to indignation and forced them to a public response admitting that their letter was based on interviews with only those feeling harassed. There was no independent research and the CPJ never claimed there was.

Committee to Protect Journalists wrote:
Our letter was based on firsthand interviews with subjects who were directly affected by Perugia authorities' actions in retaliation for their reporting or published comments in relation to the Kercher case, as well as in relation to another high-profile murder case, known as the "Monster of Florence" killings.

Source



It is ludicrous to claim Frank Sfarzo's version of events has been validated by the CPJ after they admit themselves that their letter was based on an interview with Sfarzo and nothing more.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I think the judge will refuse the prosecutor's request. But if I'm wrong, it doesn't matter. What matters is what happens on March 25.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

For the sake of completeness I will quote Peter Hoemberg's aka e470jph statement here after he published it on IA. This is his version of events.


e740jph wrote:

Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:17 pm
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Bruce Fischer wrote:
RoseMontague wrote:
Bruce Fischer wrote:
I'm done reading the PMF's for the year. Christmas is coming and nothing significant will be occurring until the new year. This thread can now go back to being the entertainment thread that it was intended to be. :)



And I am done reading here for the year. In what other case on this board have we relied on the cops to tell us the correct version of things as you are with this appeal to authority in Frank's case? My gut is telling me that we have not been fair to Bettina on this and I am not going to rely on the cops pressing charges or not for certainty that something happened or didn't.

Talk to you next year. Hope everyone here has a great Holiday.



Rose, why do you think we have relied on the cops to tell us the correct version of things? I talked to everyone involved Rose. I have spoken to everyone involved with the incident in Canada and Hawaii.

Bettina has one story, Frank has another. We don't have anything else to work with. The police reviewed Bettina's story and decided there was no case. If you want to get hung up on one post that was deleted then you are free to do so. I have spoken to Bettina multiple times and she is well aware of the fact that she is free to post here. All I asked was that she did not make false accusations regarding Frank committing criminal acts against members of this group.

Some members here have been a little harsh toward Bettina. That does not mean I share their views. The criticism stems from Bettina posting on .net. I personally don't care where people post. I did say it looked suspicious that Bettina ran to Ergon to tell her story. She explained in a PM why she did that and we understand each other now. I have no negative opinions of Bettina. I have no proof of any wrongdoing against her or Frank. We do our best to allow personal opinions here. We just ask that members don't libel other members.

The incident in Canada has been blown way out of proportion. I have spoken to both people involved in that dispute as well. There are hard feelings and unfortunately a friendship was severed. I feel bad for all involved. Its a private dispute, nothing criminal, no charges. Frank was not arrested in Canada. Frank was not thrown out of Canada. It was an argument between two people. Frank is not banned from Canada. He had lunch in Canada with a friend yesterday! People here need to stop listening to the lies coming from PMF. I am honestly shocked to see some of our posters buying into their crap.

If I receive credible information that discredits Frank, I will be the first one to come here and post it. I have no personal reason to defend Frank. The only reason I am talking about this is because it is here on this forum.



I spent 2 hours with Canadian immigration officials trying to get Frank Sfarzo into Canada for his second visit. They finally agreed to let him in on the condition that he would not be able to re-enter if he left Canada. I think we all know than Mr. Sfarzo's visit ended up disastrously. Unlike Bettina, I have tried to keep quiet about the reasons why I finally had to call the police to remove Frank from my premises. Also, unlike the guilters, I believe firmly that AK and RS are innocent.

Frank was not asleep at 4:00 a.m. when I called the police for assistance. Instead I felt increasingly threatened after a totally unnecessary hostile argument. I was subsequently interviewed the next day by a police officer (with tape recorder) to clarify questions about Sfarzo accusing me of sexual molestation. Talk about a desperate "Hail Mary Pass".

The police then advised that he had returned to the US. I have had a number of p.m. with Bruce. He did not give me the courtesy of advising me me of his decision.

So, I am calling you out on this one, Bruce. You are the moderator, but I can disagree and be disappointed with your decision. Unfortunate! I should have saved the $5,000 I donated for Frank's support.

p.s. Bill Williams - why are you hiding?
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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I've just read Nell's reposting above and I'm confused. Does Bruce deny that Frank was picked up by the cops or that he was charged? Is this a language issue? The police will have arrested Frank when they picked him up but this doesn't mean Frank was charged with anything. It is possible to be arrested then de-arrested if you give police assurance that you will leave the area. It's also possible that Frank can wander across the border between Washington State and BC and still be banned by the Canadian border people - its not the tightest border on the planet.

Top and bottom of this whole things is this: Frank is a con man and Bruce has his own agenda which doesn't include the well being of his board membership, or it certainly comes across to me that way. Two people have been publicly taken for a ride financially by Frank, partly from what it seems because frank's cause was backed by Bruce. One of these two has been lied about to the police - imagine if Frank's sexual allegation had been taken seriously, Peter would be facing some serious jail time and losing more than $5k. I've been reading over at .org too and I have no reason to doubt Skeptical Bystander when she says that she has had PM's from people who are not "guilters" who do more than back up Bettina's experience of Frank. Indeed, Jools at .org has suggested that I-A contact Ghirga as he is friendly with the prosecutor in Frank's Italian case who will be able to tell him what is what. If Mignini has some big evil plan against Frank, Ghirga above anyone will know about it. Bruce should call him and post the outcome for all to see. But he won't because the truth of the matter is that Bruce pulled the CPJ into this and God knows who else. For Frank to be guilty means Bruce's humiliation in front of people that he respects and that is why he'd rather turn a blind eye to the fact that Frank lies and cheats everyone he meets. If Bruce cannot see that then good luck to him but he shouldn't drag others down too.

Just an idea but perhaps we could have an amnesty thread regarding Frank? RoseMontague and I should never discuss the case because we'll get nowhere but we do have common ground on this. I'd be happy to debate this topic with her, Bettina , Peter and any other FOA member up to and including Chris Mellas to get to the truth of things. On this thread, mention of Meredith's murder and who might have done it is banned. What we can achieve is shedding light on Frank and his activities in a supportive and mutually respectful environment - no personal attacks, no partisan views. It also keeps the main board on topic. Just a thought.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Daisysteiner wrote:
Just an idea but perhaps we could have an amnesty thread regarding Frank? RoseMontague and I should never discuss the case because we'll get nowhere but we do have common ground on this. I'd be happy to debate this topic with her, Bettina , Peter and any other FOA member up to and including Chris Mellas to get to the truth of things. On this thread, mention of Meredith's murder and who might have done it is banned. What we can achieve is shedding light on Frank and his activities in a supportive and mutually respectful environment - no personal attacks, no partisan views. It also keeps the main board on topic. Just a thought.


Sorry, Daisy, but I already gave Rose an amnesty and she threw it back in my face, deliberately getting herself banned a second time. As for Bettina, well, she's already here. And as for those others that may be banned; It is not a simple thing to undo a ban and then grant a member posting privileges in one forum but not others. One has to manually go into their settings and grant or disallow them perms on a forum by forum basis and that's a LOT of messing about. It is not possible to grant or disallow perms on a thread by thread basis by the way, it can only be done in regard to whole subforums. Finally, I don't think Peter would want to come here to talk about it with us in any case. He may not be able to stand Frank, but I think he hates us just as much. But, even if he did, what is there for him to add over what's been told already? I'd only have one question for him...what was it exactly that Frank did that caused you to be so concerned that you felt you needed to call the police at 4 am in the morning? Was Frank violent, or threatening to be? I doubt though, that we'll ever get an answer to that question.

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"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Bruce says:

Quote:
Rose, why do you think we have relied on the cops to tell us the correct version of things? I talked to everyone involved Rose. I have spoken to everyone involved with the incident in Canada and Hawaii.


Have you spoken to Chris Mellas about the phone call?
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi, daisysteiner, Bruce is hairsplitting here, just as he did over the Bettina incident. Frank was escorted to the border and thrown out of Canada. He would not have been readmitted unless Peter had spoken to the immigration authorities to let Frank meet one more time with his Canadian supporter, probably the remaining reverend "Bill Williams". Frank obviously needs help to get back to Italy, or is he trying to stay here? Only when Bruce had to rub Peter's nose in it by saying "Frank was not arrested in Canada. Frank was not thrown out of Canada. It was an argument between two people. Frank is not banned from Canada. He had lunch in Canada with a friend yesterday!" that Peter (e740jph) had to speak up. Hence his asking "p.s. Bill Williams - why are you hiding?"

That's why I don't agree with the idea of allowing Bruce Fischer or his surrogates to come over and spam this forum., they have proven their essential dishonesty over and over again.

And Bettina is moving on, after the trauma of what she went through. She will post here when time has passed, and is always welcome, but not to talk to the very people who attacked her for speaking up.
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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Fair enough Michael, I understand your point of view from the board perspective and to some extent the 'Rose' situation. It would have been nice to explore the common ground with the "other side", perhaps build some bridges so we're not two completely exclusive groups but then I am an eternal optimist :) I also thought Rose's remarks to Bruce were pretty clear that she's not falling for his attempts to push his own agenda at the expense of board members who have suffered at the hands of Bruce's friend. Sometimes when the scales fall from people's eyes, they see other things too. I'm not suggesting that any of the I-A crew change their stance on Knox and Sollecito but when people are clearly trying to sway your point of view in one particular area, perhaps they've been manipulating events in other areas too?

Meh, whatever. Good luck to all decent folk - because there are some it seems - at I-A with the Frank situation. If it wasn't for him being told to get lost by one side, only for him to limpet onto the other in those awful few days in early November 2007, then he'd be hanging out here attempting to leech from us.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

daisysteiner wrote:
It would have been nice to explore the common ground with the "other side", perhaps build some bridges so we're not two completely exclusive groups but then I am an eternal optimist


Well, that's what FOAKer Tuesday was all about and look what they did with that. They just abused it.

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"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

They’ve created a thread at IIP for Frank’s victims to come forward and tell their story, it’s called “Mud slinging thread – Frank, Hawaii, Canada”, further humiliating and belittling those who answered IIP/IA’s call to help Frank, and fell victim to his abuse. At least any additional victims will now be clear as to how they will be treated.

Yesterday Fischer said “I have reports of Mignini's signature on Frank's warrant that began Frank's current case in Italy” (presumably his arrest on September 28, 2010); today he claims it as fact “Mignini's signature is on his arrest warrant”.

Bill Williams claims that they are "the group who relies on evidence and analysis”. Well, what is the evidence that Mignini’s signature was on Frank’s arrest warrant? Apparently Fischer has been able to verify the reports he had within the past 24 hours, why doesn’t he post what steps he took to verify this incredulous "fact"? I think he’s bluffing, and at this point I think he is fast losing credibility with his own members, so if he does have evidence, why doesn’t he post it?
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Yesterday Fischer said “I have reports of Mignini's signature on Frank's warrant that began Frank's current case in Italy” (presumably his arrest on September 28, 2010); today he claims it as fact “Mignini's signature is on his arrest warrant”.


Then, post it up, Bruce, prove it!

In fact, whilst you're about it, you can explain why you've not published any of the case file or court documents concerning Frank's trial, despite Frank's having full access to them. If what you're saying is so true, where's the case file?

I recall Fischer posting a good deal from the case file of Knox and Sollecito's trial and appeals. Why the black hole absence of any case documentation for Frank's trial? Simply saying "Take my word for it, because I say so!" just doesn't cut it. All that proves, is that you're hiding the truth.

And don't try and fake us with documents from Frank's prosecution for defamation (although, we'll happily look at those too), we want those concerning his arrest for assaulting the police and we will know the difference.

Bruce's members should be demanding this, just to prove Frank hasn't been taking them for a ride! It's easily done, it's the digital age.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I haven't been able to find much information on Frank's defamation case, and from what i can tell, the new PS site doesn't have all his old blog entries, also the comment sections weren't transferred to the new site.

Is it known specifically which blog entry or entries led to the defamation charge?
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

No. Because in regard to Frank's dealings with the law, his enablers have been particularly unforthcoming in regard to facts and documentation. I wonder why that is.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Here is the info on the Paypal account Frank "borrowed", it may be of interest to revenue agents. Wow. $5,000 from one supporter alone. Incredible!

Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:55 am
e740jph

Support Frank Sfarzo!
Paypal works just fine. He had some troubles re-registering his account, so payments will show up as being made to barbara santangelo.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
No. Because in regard to Frank's dealings with the law, his enablers have been particularly unforthcoming in regard to facts and documentation. I wonder why that is.


I know! Ironic how they are willing to censor comments and bully victims to further free speech.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I know this isn’t of any consequence, it’s just posted for the sake of humor.

Quote:
Bruce Fischer: The accusations floating around about the money collected for Frank are pathetic and really show just how stupid the remaining members at the PMF's are. (blah blah) We didn't collect money for Frank. (blah blah blah) (Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:04 pm)


Where would anyone get an idea like that? Oh, Bruce Fischer, five hours prior said:
Quote:
Bruce Fischer: This forum fully supports Frank with his struggles in this regard and we are proud that we were able to help collect donations in order to help him. (Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:14 am)


Btw, doesn't he make the claim that IA/IIP is a "grassroots" organization? With all the proclamations he makes "This forums supports", "We feel", etc it sounds more like a hierarchical organization.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

That's hilarious!!! cl-) tt-) b-(( :D

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Sure wish ol stint was here for these revelations... that would be a riot. Cape too. Maybe they will stop by soon.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
I know this isn’t of any consequence, it’s just posted for the sake of humor.

Quote:
Bruce Fischer: The accusations floating around about the money collected for Frank are pathetic and really show just how stupid the remaining members at the PMF's are. (blah blah) We didn't collect money for Frank. (blah blah blah) (Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:04 pm)


Where would anyone get an idea like that? Oh, Bruce Fischer, five hours prior said:
Quote:
Bruce Fischer: This forum fully supports Frank with his struggles in this regard and we are proud that we were able to help collect donations in order to help him. (Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:14 am)


Btw, doesn't he make the claim that IA/IIP is a "grassroots" organization? With all the proclamations he makes "This forums supports", "We feel", etc it sounds more like a hierarchical organization.



That is the same sort of crap they do when debating the case. Deflect and distort.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Well, I think he threatened to sue Pay Pal,

I will sue you,

where is my money,

I want to speak to the manager,

you are nobodies,

where's my money

I want it

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
I haven't been able to find much information on Frank's defamation case, and from what i can tell, the new PS site doesn't have all his old blog entries, also the comment sections weren't transferred to the new site.

Is it known specifically which blog entry or entries led to the defamation charge?


Hi louie,

Nell came across an old blog article from Candace Dempsey and posted a link to it in the Staff subforum (thanks Nell!)

It is something worth rereading, in light of recent revelations about Sfarzo. I know this source (Candace Dempsey) can be hit or miss, so take it with a huge grain of salt maybe even a handful. :)

Sweden rescues Italian Amanda Knox blog. Google, are you watching?

Candace Dempsey wrote:
It’s the cops that Frank aims his anger at. As documented by CPJ, he was beaten by five officers this fall over his Knox coverage. They’ve now sued him, accusing him of hitting them. Mignini has summoned Frank to his chambers twice and questioned him about the assault case.


Frank Sfarzo wrote:
When I recently opened my door to them: arrested and accused of having beaten them. Yes, me, this tremendous fighter, managed to beat up five cops: and they call themselves forza pubblica!… A man alone can beat them up, so they have not even physical strength. They are the public weakness: useless and – above all else — a danger.

So I avoided the meeting with the dangerous people. I told them to fax my lawyer what they wanted to tell me. And they faxed a modello 21, convocation of persona informata sui fatti. Signed: Mignini. Okay, Mignini. I can go next Monday, no problem. At least in that office I won’t risk my life, just my freedom…


SEATTLE PI BLOG
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I call bovine manure.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi dgfred,

maybe Sfarzo did see Mignini on a previous occasion when the prosecutor informed him of the lawsuit related to the closure of his blog, e.g. FS mixes a little truth [I went and saw Mignini] into a lie, adds some well-contrived sincerity, and it's instantly believable ... at least his most ardent supporters swallowed his tall tales without asking for proof. Just a guess.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Here is the info on the Paypal account Frank "borrowed", it may be of interest to revenue agents. Wow. $5,000 from one supporter alone. Incredible!

Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:55 am
e740jph

Support Frank Sfarzo!
Paypal works just fine. He had some troubles re-registering his account, so payments will show up as being made to barbara santangelo.


Bettina states for the record that she is not barbara santangelo. She's aware of her and thinks she's an Italian supporter of Frank's.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Hi dgfred,

maybe Sfarzo did see Mignini on a previous occasion when the prosecutor informed him of the lawsuit related to the closure of his blog, e.g. FS mixes a little truth [I went and saw Mignini] into a lie, adds some well-contrived sincerity, and it's instantly believable ... at least his most ardent supporters swallowed his tall tales without asking for proof. Just a guess.


Hi Guermantes and dgfred,

Mignini did interview Frank Sfarzo, but it was related to one of his blog posts. I can't recall it right now of the top of my head, but IIRC, Sfarzo had published documents or information he wasn't supposed to have. Mignini questioned him about who was his source and I remember that Sfarzo mocked Mignini shortly before or after his interview that he would claim or had claimed "memory loss".
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:15 pm   Post subject: MESSAGE FROM BETTINA   

From: tamale
To: Ergon
Sent: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:23 pm
Message subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving

follow thru .... Let me know when it happens so I can go online and support.

I wonder when his trial in Perugia is scheduled?

Frank is a worm.

Low on juice these days...many clouds.

From: tamale
To: Ergon
Sent: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:11 pm
Message subject: my messages are not sending

I am moving out of jungle...want internet.

Call anytime. It's better for me

Frank is fighting with roomies in seattle. Have no other info.

People on IIP are starting to do the math.

Will be happy to answer questions.

Smile, Bettina.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:

I know this source (Candace Dempsey) can be hit or miss, so take it with a huge grain of salt maybe even a handful. :)



Thanks, guermantes.

I’m beginning to think the defamation case filed against FS by Mignini is a figment of FS’s imagination. It’s been nearly two years now, and there is no progress of this case in the courts?

Frank told the CPJ that he learned in an email from Google in May, 2011 that a Florentine court issued an order of “Preventative Closure” on February 23, 2011. He claims that from this court order he learned of a lawsuit filed by Mignini against him for defamation.

Quote:
Sfarzo told CPJ that he received an email from Google, which hosts the site, last night informing him that a court order has been issued for the "preventive closure" of his blog dedicated to the Kercher case. In compliance with that order, Google took down Perugia Shock; it is now unavailable. It was from the court order, Sfarzo told CPJ, that he learned that Perugia Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini--who has a long-standing record of anti-press actions--has filed a lawsuit against Perugia Shock for "defamation, carried out by means of a website." The court order, which stemmed from Mignini's claim, was issued on February 23 by Florentine Judge Paola Belsino. Mignini is the lead prosecutor on the Kercher case.
http://cpj.org/2011/05/italian-prosecut ... shutte.php


According to Dempsey’s article though, the blog entry that led Mignini to file the defamation suit was posted on PS on March 11, 2011: Mysterious Disappearance in The Knox-Sollecito Case.

So, Mignini filed a defamation suit in February, 2011 over a blog that Frank posted in March, 2011?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Hi dgfred,

maybe Sfarzo did see Mignini on a previous occasion when the prosecutor informed him of the lawsuit related to the closure of his blog, e.g. FS mixes a little truth [I went and saw Mignini] into a lie, adds some well-contrived sincerity, and it's instantly believable ... at least his most ardent supporters swallowed his tall tales without asking for proof. Just a guess.


Hi Guermantes and dgfred,

Mignini did interview Frank Sfarzo, but it was related to one of his blog posts. I can't recall it right now of the top of my head, but IIRC, Sfarzo had published documents or information he wasn't supposed to have. Mignini questioned him about who was his source and I remember that Sfarzo mocked Mignini shortly before or after his interview that he would claim or had claimed "memory loss".



A quick Google search revealed this (the source is crap, but it states a concrete date):

Quote:
Sunday, March 13, 2011
The Little Dictator and Frank Sfarzo
Giuliano Mignini, the prosecutor of Amanda Knox, has a record of filing charges against people who criticize him. I list some of Mignini's targets in The Little Dictator, Chapter 13 of The Monster of Perugia. Well, Mignini may be at it again.

Frank Sfarzo, writer of Perugia-Shock and based in Perugia, has been writing some very frank and hard hitting columns about the behavior of the polizia, prosecution, and courts Perugia, and in Italy in general. These columns, which can be read at http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/, may be triggering another attack in Mignini's prosecutorial rampage. As described in Frank's latest post, "A Bus Named Desire," Frank first heard of rumors that he would be arrested, and now has been summoned to appear in Mignini's office on Monday, March 14, 2011.

Many of us are observing this situation and are prepared to do what we can to make it very well known should this represent a continuation of the outrageous and ongoing prosecutorial misconduct of Public Minister Giuliano Mignini.

Our concerns are not only with Amanda and Raffaele, but with all of the victims of the Monster of Perugia. It must be brought to a halt.

Source



Quote:
PERSON INFORMED OF FACTS
They Call them ‘Public Force’


You know how we have to work these days, here, in the new Soviet Union? You need to watch your back, you need to have your real computer and your main stuff hidden faraway from your place, because the political police can enter your house at any moment.

Tomorrow they are going to arrest you, an informant let me know last Friday. The information was probably a bit exaggerated (and I wasn’t in town, they couldn’t have arrested me anyway). But the homicide squad (those who were so kind to Raffaele, Amanda and Patrick...) did go look for me the next day. When they didn’t find me they called and told me to go to the police station. Yeah, right, I run...
I told them in no way I would enter that place alone. For sure I know of people who by chance have entered a police station and ended up confessing to be present at a crime... or accusing themselves... or someone else... or they found themselves, next morning, in the morgue.

Source


Unfortunately, the comments haven't been saved, so unless we can find a reference in the forum or elsewhere of Frank's comment about memory loss, we are out of luck.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Hi dgfred,

maybe Sfarzo did see Mignini on a previous occasion when the prosecutor informed him of the lawsuit related to the closure of his blog, e.g. FS mixes a little truth [I went and saw Mignini] into a lie, adds some well-contrived sincerity, and it's instantly believable ... at least his most ardent supporters swallowed his tall tales without asking for proof. Just a guess.


Hi Guermantes and dgfred,

Mignini did interview Frank Sfarzo, but it was related to one of his blog posts. I can't recall it right now of the top of my head, but IIRC, Sfarzo had published documents or information he wasn't supposed to have. Mignini questioned him about who was his source and I remember that Sfarzo mocked Mignini shortly before or after his interview that he would claim or had claimed "memory loss".


Now that you've said it, I suddenly remember it. That's what happened. Mignini investigated Frank's obtaining and publishing of documents he shouldn't have had. Frank refused to co-operate, then went on to boast about it and used his blog to attack Mignini!

Looking back, it's almost as if Frank provoked Mignini deliberately into taking the action that he did.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:12 am   Post subject: PHONE CALL WITH BETTINA   

Further to my previous post, I had some follow up questions for Bettina, Her situation is that she lives in a rural area near a volcano in a solar powered small cottage. The weather's been bad which is why she's low on power and can't post herself, so I posted her messages for her, and called her back today.

From my notes of the conversation with her:

She's heard that Frank Sfarzo is fighting with his 'roomies' in the house in Seattle and they can hardly wait to get rid of him. He's quite volatile.

Everyone's intimidated by some sort of personal secrets he may use as a hold over them, but, also, they all have 'projects' about the case they're trying to protect.

Bruce Fischer has deleted posts, and every one's waking up.

Frank will be returning to Perugia on Wednesday (tomorrow?)

He entered the US on a regular three month visitors visa but it was extended when he left the country to visit Canada.

She believes it has expired now. He was not allowed to work, as a reporter or anything else.

He has no other options so will be appearing in court to fight the charges.

He's claiming there will be 'reporters' in court to observe etc. (10:1 it wil be CPJ, even odds it's someone from Gather, lol)

She's planning on moving to a house with more facilities, and communicate directly when she's in a better place. There are times when she feels fine and then she has flashbacks. Concerned that Frank will reveal personal information but still stands by her words.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I can now reveal exactly how it was Frank came to be in trouble over his living arrangements. It would appear that I had things about face. My informant has contacted me to set me straight on the issue. Frank was not forced to move OUT of the apartment (I'm guessing he refused to go), rather it was his sisters who came and took the mother and moved HER out, along with all her money. My informant states:

Quote:
I am now following here and there what you guys are posting on the forum.
Maybe you are wrong in the idea that francesco needed the 10.000 eur for a new appartment, I think he still had to pay the rent, gas, electricity etc.. for months and months that were still due since the day his sisters moved the mother out of the appartment to that secret place they are hiding her for him. He said this himself, that his sisters didn't pay any bills nomore, since mother was out of the house. I guess that must have been around the day the cops came to his place and have 'beaten him up'. Very fair landlord, let him stay for another year without paying any rent.


This also explains why Frank needed so much money. Frank's mother had hitherto paid the rent from her pension and the sisters had paid the other bills for the flat. When the mother was taken away and the sisters stopped paying the bills, Frank had no means of paying the rent or the bills, having no income of his own, and due to a very kind and patient landlord, lived there for month after month not paying rent or the bills with arrears mounting.

So, how did he find himself in this predicament? My source tells me that Frank used to look after all his mothers finances, using that to also pay the rent. But then one day, the sisters came and took over their mother's finances from Frank, accusing him of misusing the money, leaving Frank furious:

Quote:
I can only say what I remember him telling to me, if this is to be trusted from a pathological liar: he took care of his mother all alone for some years and used her pension money in doing that. One day the sisters decided, so he said, he was misusing the money and they took mum and the money away from him. He was very jealous his sisters got that money now.


Reading between the lines (although my source can't say for certain, as they weren't there until after these events), one might guess, that it was the sisters coming along and suddenly taking over the mother's finances that led to Frank's losing his temper to such an extent, that the police had to be called by the mother and he ended up allegedly assaulting them and being arrested.

It was just Frank who lived with his mother (before the sisters took her away to get her away from him). The sisters lived outside of Perugia, up Lago del Trasimeno way, north of Perugia.

This explains why Frank needed 10,000 euros. A year's worth of rent arrears and unpaid bills makes that sound about right. And Frank decided, the best way to get it, was to blame the whole thing on Mignini and sucker Amanda's supporters for it.

Make of it what you will.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:19 am   Post subject: Re: PHONE CALL WITH BETTINA   

Hi Ergon,

Thank you for following up on this and thanks to Bettina for letting us know these details.

Kudos to her for bringing this whole incident to everyone's attention, despite all the retaliation and bullying she has to endure now from current members of Bruce Fischer's forum Injustice Anywhere. The same can be said about Peter, Frank's Canadian host.

I feel for both of them, especially after reading one of Bruce Fischer's latest messages that basically tells them if they spent their money on Frank Sfarzo, it's their problem.


Bruce Fischer wrote:
Bruce Fischer wrote:
Frank has been traveling the world lately so I don't think anyone had Frank on their list for charity this Christmas. Many blogs have donation buttons to support the writer for his writing. I think that would be the extent of donations at this time. Frank is not traveling on the donations he received in the past due to our recommendation by the way. He was paid by OGGI for his article.That does not mean that those who Frank has been visiting have not been more than generous to Frank, leaving him to spend very little money on his travels. These kind deeds are the decisions of the individuals making them and are certainly nobody's business.


Just to clarify, I was speaking about contributions made to the Perugia Shock website due to our recommendation. Peter and Bettina have both said that they paid for Frank's airline tickets. These decisions were theirs to make. This forum would never suggest that anyone should fund a vacation for Frank. We recommended donations to Perugia Shock in order to help Frank with his struggles in Italy. That is all.


A few days ago, I quoted Sarah Snyder's message to Peter Hoemberg, passing on Frank's email address so he could "make an offer". It was also discussed on Injustice Anywhere how the members could help Frank to get into the U.S. So I suggest that Bruce Fischer did encourage his members to make arrangements that would Frank Sfarzo, completely broke, allow to visit the U.S. and Canada - for the time he was expected to be in Italy for the hearing of his current trial in Perugia.


Especially interesting is also the information about Frank Sfarzo being in the U.S. on a 3-months tourist visa. If I remember correctly, he entered the U.S. at the end of July 2012? Wasn't it the 24th or around that date?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

If Frank is drawing unemployment Benefit of any kind, he's required by Italian law to be actively ready for and actively seeking work. If instead, he's going on holiday for months, then he is actively in breach of contract for those benefits. Ditto, if he's receiving thousands of euros in donations from people and not declaring that income to the state. Just sayin'.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
--- snip ---

This also explains why Frank needed so much money. Frank's mother had hitherto paid the rent from her pension and the sisters had paid the other bills for the flat. When the mother was taken away and the sisters stopped paying the bills, Frank had no means of paying the rent or the bills, having no income of his own, and due to a very kind and patient landlord, lived there for month after month not paying rent or the bills with arrears mounting.

--- snap ---



Which reminded me of a post I wrote a few days ago in response to Itchy Brother. We all knew (and everyone should have known) that the 10,000 euros could not have possibly been for a security deposit. Now it turns out, it was unpaid rent.

Another person Frank Sfarzo scammed: his landlord. I am sure he didn't see a penny from the donations, so there might be another lawsuit for Frank Sfarzo in store.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Another person Frank Sfarzo scammed: his landlord. I am sure he didn't see a penny from the donations, so there might be another lawsuit for Frank Sfarzo in store.


No. From what my source has told me, Frank was actively looking for a new flat or house. Why would Frank be looking for a new place if he had paid, or intended to pay, the arrears on the flat he was already living in? And if he then went and paid all the arrears, where would he have the money to then go and get a new place? Clearly, he was planning on doing (probably has already done so) a runner and setting himself up in a new place with the money he'd conned out of people under false pretenses, whilst leaving the landlord of his old flat high and dry.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
Another person Frank Sfarzo scammed: his landlord. I am sure he didn't see a penny from the donations, so there might be another lawsuit for Frank Sfarzo in store.


No. From what my source has told me, Frank was actively looking for a new flat or house. Why would Frank be looking for a new place if he had paid, or intended to pay, the arrears on the flat he was already living in? And if he then went and paid all the arrears, where would he have the money to then go and get a new place? Clearly, he was planning on doing (probably has already done so) a runner and setting himself up in a new place with the money he'd conned out of people under false pretenses whilst leaving the landlord of his old flat high and dry.


Maybe I didn't express myself well enough, but what you wrote is exactly what I meant. He scammed his landlord, because he lived there for months and couldn't pay his rent. He left the place without paying a penny, until the landlord had enough and changed the locks. So depending on the mood of the landlord, he might sue Frank for the outstanding rent.

On IA they made it sound as if the landlord was bullying Frank into paying some outrageous sum he didn't deserve or was entitled to, or else he would change the locks, when in fact the guy just wanted to get paid the outstanding rent.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Hi dgfred,

maybe Sfarzo did see Mignini on a previous occasion when the prosecutor informed him of the lawsuit related to the closure of his blog, e.g. FS mixes a little truth [I went and saw Mignini] into a lie, adds some well-contrived sincerity, and it's instantly believable ... at least his most ardent supporters swallowed his tall tales without asking for proof. Just a guess.


Hi Guermantes and dgfred,

Mignini did interview Frank Sfarzo, but it was related to one of his blog posts. I can't recall it right now of the top of my head, but IIRC, Sfarzo had published documents or information he wasn't supposed to have. Mignini questioned him about who was his source and I remember that Sfarzo mocked Mignini shortly before or after his interview that he would claim or had claimed "memory loss".


Now that you've said it, I suddenly remember it. That's what happened. Mignini investigated Frank's obtaining and publishing of documents he shouldn't have had. Frank refused to co-operate, then went on to boast about it and used his blog to attack Mignini!

Looking back, it's almost as if Frank provoked Mignini deliberately into taking the action that he did.


I went back to the archives circa March 13, 2011 and found this:

by DLW » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:16 pm
Frank is kind of downplaying his meeting on Monday with the police. It’s not the police station at all, just talking to the Judge in his office. He thinks it’s about possible defamation matters. So those of you who have worried about Frank getting beat up , can breath easier. Unless the Judges cuffs him behind his head. Personally, I would have thrown the book at him already. I think in a way he likes the attention it brings.

by Yummi » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:50 pm

But one thing might be noticed.
Frank was not called before the prosecution to respond on something regarding himself. Frank is not downplaying, he is dramatizing, by placing himself in the main charachter victim role.
But the truth is he received a model 52 summoning paper. Which means Mignini is not threatening him but mocking him: he will just use him to gain information on others, Frank will be forced to play the humiliating role of a puppet for the Procura. Mignini will obligate him to be a tool, maybe to provide evidence in some investigation or prosecution.

Re: XXII. MAIN DISCUSSION, JAN 22 -
by Yummi » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:01 am
My first guess - that could be wrong - is that Frank has been called by the police because he asserts of having questioned some witnesses about the case, in particular Quintavalle. Since the defence have claims in their appeals about Quintavalle's words, the questioning by Frank might come into play. But also other witnesses could be involved. However, also the contacts between Frank and Knox-supporters (or with Knox herself) could be an object of interest for the prosecution.


viewtopic.php?style=1&f=1&t=324&start=6500
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
Another person Frank Sfarzo scammed: his landlord. I am sure he didn't see a penny from the donations, so there might be another lawsuit for Frank Sfarzo in store.


No. From what my source has told me, Frank was actively looking for a new flat or house. Why would Frank be looking for a new place if he had paid, or intended to pay, the arrears on the flat he was already living in? And if he then went and paid all the arrears, where would he have the money to then go and get a new place? Clearly, he was planning on doing (probably has already done so) a runner and setting himself up in a new place with the money he'd conned out of people under false pretenses whilst leaving the landlord of his old flat high and dry.


Maybe I didn't express myself well enough, but what you wrote is exactly what I meant. He scammed his landlord, because he lived there for months and couldn't pay his rent. He left the place without paying a penny, until the landlord had enough and changed the locks. So depending on the mood of the landlord, he might sue Frank for the outstanding rent.

On IA they made it sound as if the landlord was bullying Frank into paying some outrageous sum he didn't deserve or was entitled to, or else he would change the locks, when in fact the guy just wanted to get paid the outstanding rent.


The question is, are they smart enough to be angry they've been duped?

From your post upthread
Clive Wismayer wrote: A reminder that Frank returns to court on 11th July. He lost his apartment by the way, thanks to the cowardly cops and Italy's craven press.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Maybe I didn't express myself well enough, but what you wrote is exactly what I meant. He scammed his landlord, because he lived there for months and couldn't pay his rent. He left the place without paying a penny, until the landlord had enough and changed the locks. So depending on the mood of the landlord, he might sue Frank for the outstanding rent.

On IA they made it sound as if the landlord was bullying Frank into paying some outrageous sum he didn't deserve or was entitled to, or else he would change the locks, when in fact the guy just wanted to get paid the outstanding rent.



Sorry, Nell, I knew you were agreeing with what I went on to say, I just wrote it badly so it didn't look like that. It's late my end, that's why.

Well, we don't know if the landlord actually did change the locks, we were just told by Frank via his fundraisers that the landlord was threatening to do that (and my source has told me that Frank was in fear of that happening and that when out, he would regularly shoot back home to swing by the outside of his apartment to check that the police or fire brigade weren't breaking into his flat at his landlord's behest). Whether that's happened by now, or Frank left for a new place before the landlord could do so, I don't know.

The landlord was bullying him? This is exactly how Frank spits in the faces of all those who help him. The landlord allowed Frank to live there month after month, essentially rent free, rather then kick him out onto the street. And that's the thanks he/she gets for his/her kindness.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
From your post upthread
Clive Wismayer wrote: A reminder that Frank returns to court on 11th July. He lost his apartment by the way, thanks to the cowardly cops and Italy's craven press.


Ahh, okay, he did lose it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Hi dgfred,

maybe Sfarzo did see Mignini on a previous occasion when the prosecutor informed him of the lawsuit related to the closure of his blog, e.g. FS mixes a little truth [I went and saw Mignini] into a lie, adds some well-contrived sincerity, and it's instantly believable ... at least his most ardent supporters swallowed his tall tales without asking for proof. Just a guess.


Hi Guermantes and dgfred,

Mignini did interview Frank Sfarzo, but it was related to one of his blog posts. I can't recall it right now of the top of my head, but IIRC, Sfarzo had published documents or information he wasn't supposed to have. Mignini questioned him about who was his source and I remember that Sfarzo mocked Mignini shortly before or after his interview that he would claim or had claimed "memory loss".


Now that you've said it, I suddenly remember it. That's what happened. Mignini investigated Frank's obtaining and publishing of documents he shouldn't have had. Frank refused to co-operate, then went on to boast about it and used his blog to attack Mignini!

Looking back, it's almost as if Frank provoked Mignini deliberately into taking the action that he did.


I went back to the archives circa March 13, 2011 and found this:

by DLW » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:16 pm
Frank is kind of downplaying his meeting on Monday with the police. It’s not the police station at all, just talking to the Judge in his office. He thinks it’s about possible defamation matters. So those of you who have worried about Frank getting beat up , can breath easier. Unless the Judges cuffs him behind his head. Personally, I would have thrown the book at him already. I think in a way he likes the attention it brings.

by Yummi » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:50 pm

But one thing might be noticed.
Frank was not called before the prosecution to respond on something regarding himself. Frank is not downplaying, he is dramatizing, by placing himself in the main charachter victim role.
But the truth is he received a model 52 summoning paper. Which means Mignini is not threatening him but mocking him: he will just use him to gain information on others, Frank will be forced to play the humiliating role of a puppet for the Procura. Mignini will obligate him to be a tool, maybe to provide evidence in some investigation or prosecution.

Re: XXII. MAIN DISCUSSION, JAN 22 -
by Yummi » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:01 am
My first guess - that could be wrong - is that Frank has been called by the police because he asserts of having questioned some witnesses about the case, in particular Quintavalle. Since the defence have claims in their appeals about Quintavalle's words, the questioning by Frank might come into play. But also other witnesses could be involved. However, also the contacts between Frank and Knox-supporters (or with Knox herself) could be an object of interest for the prosecution.


http://perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic. ... start=6500


Thanks, louiehaha, that explains a lot. What I recall, is that Frank didn't co-operate. And that's illegal. Frank was summoned as a witness and witnesses do not have the right to lie or the right to silence. It was after this, that the relationship between Frank and Mignini truly went downhill.

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
If Frank is drawing unemployment Benefit of any kind, he's required by Italian law to be actively ready for and actively seeking work. If instead, he's going on holiday for months, then he is actively in breach of contract for those benefits. Ditto, if he's receiving thousands of euros in donations from people and not declaring that income to the state. Just sayin'.


I am not so sure that Frank is/was even entitled to unemployment benefits.

From what we know of Frank, I don't think it is a safe bet to assume he had a stable employment around the time of his arrest.

On the website of the Istituto Nazionale Previdenza Sociale (National Institute for Social Work) are all the conditions listed to be able to apply.

If you are the one who quits the job, you get nothing (with exceptions). If you are terminated, you can apply for ordinary unemployment benefits if you have made contributions for more than 12 months or 52 weeks in the past two years. There is also the option of reduced benefits in case you have worked at least 78 days the year before you apply and have been insured for two years. Then you receive a 35% of your daily average salary in the first 120 days and 40% for the next month to a maximum of 180 days.

The ordinary benefits are 60% during the first 6 months, 50% during the next 2 months and 40% for the remaining months. Basis for the calculation is the salary paid in the three months before the termination of the contract. The benefits are paid monthly for a maximum of 8 months for applicants under 50 years and 12 months for applicants 50 years and above.

In all cases the applicant must be available and willing to work.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
--- snip ---

Sorry, Nell, I knew you were agreeing with what I went on to say, I just wrote it badly so it didn't look like that. It's late my end, that's why.

--- snap ---


I know how that feels! :D
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Yes, Nell, I do feel sorry for Peter as I do for Bettina. No one deserves abuse. No one deserves to be scammed by a parasite. And those people who are so driven by their animus towards PMF they think we believe this will affect the case against Knox and Sollecito. No, it won't.

But yes, all those who used Frank Sfarzo to undermine PM MIgnini are now, themselves discredited. Their media projects have gone pfft, their attempts to collect donations to their cause are about to follow. Was Bruce Fischer's brand smirched by Sfarzogate? I guess, but, we shall see.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
I am not so sure that Frank is/was even entitled to unemployment benefits.

From what we know of Frank, I don't think it is a safe bet to assume he had a stable employment around the time of his arrest.


Yes, this had occurred to me and I've been giving it some thought. He must have been drawing a small income in the form of some welfare benefit all these years, but if he's not worked for years and so has no credits, how? I am guessing that he may have been drawing benefits under the role of being a carer for his mother.

If I'm right, I'm wondering if he bothered informing the state that she hasn't been living with him for well over a year and if he has continued to claim his benefits as a carer. If not, then what has he been living on? Possibly on donations, but he was living on something before the donation campaign started. What?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:53 am   Post subject: INSENSITIVE PERSON OF THE YEAR AWARD   

I am going to reply to these horrible comments at Idiots Anonymous since they refer to the conversation I had with Bettina today.

Bruce Fischer wrote:

Post subject: Re: Mud slinging thread - Frank, Hawaii, Canada
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:49 am
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Sean2012hobby wrote:
"As for Bettina, she is an obvious fraud. She is now claiming to folks on PMF that she was so traumatized by Frank that she is still struggling to get over it and is having "flashbacks." That is simply not believable. Edited by moderator It is not plausible that just having a very brief argument with someone can result in "flashbacks."

Bettina also shows herself to be a disturbed person in the way that she has gone about trying to turn people against Frank and stir up trouble. She has also been spying on him in his own residence in Seattle by contacting his roommates in their rental house to spread lies and try to get dirt on him. Talk about an invasion of privacy. I think Bettina is stalking Frank and should be investigated. It is illegal to be going after someone to harass a person like that, such as contacting their friends and associates to try to cause them grief.

We are not here to play doctor. Please keep it civil.


Bettina is speaking with roommates of Frank's in Seattle. I find this to be troubling as well. I do not know her motives but I know how it appears. Her first contact with me was not to find help for Frank but to tell me that Frank was a fraud and now the entire world would know. I don't think this will amount to anything at all. Bettina is in Hawaii so she won't be stalking Frank. Frank's roommate in Seattle is an adult and can befriend anyone he likes. It would be best if Frank stayed away from Bettina and that is exactly what he is doing. I don't think anymore will come of this as Frank goes back to Italy. Its an unfortunate situation for all involved."


New member "Sean2012baby" did not speak to Bettina, I did. And what she said was "every time I start to feel a little bit better, the memories come back to me". So Mr. or Ms. Sensitive might consider whether this is what happens to victims of abuse, and how shocked they can be, and how they keep reliving the abuse for years is not worth sympathy? And what makes you think Bettina called the roommate in Seattle? How DARE you suggest she's spying on Frank? People are calling and writing to HER with stories about Frank which she has every right to tell anyone that will listen, since Bruce Fischer has banned her from speaking openly.

Let's just say: I quoted Bettina accurately, and Bruce and Co. ought to be ashamed.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Bruce says:

Quote:
I do not know her motives but I know how it appears. Her first contact with me was not to find help for Frank but to tell me that Frank was a fraud and now the entire world would know.


Her first contact was not to find help for Frank? This has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read. Seriously, stop-the-presses, and-the award-goes-to...Academy Award Winning stupid. And so transparent.

Her motive, in case it is not now obvious, was seeking support after a traumatizing experience. And Bruce thinks she should have been seeking help for Frank? Beyond belief.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Anyone else noticed how quiet KayPea has become after she was criticised for bashing Bettina on Bruce Fischer's forum? She seemed jealous and overly protective of Frank Sfarzo. She accused Bettina of having jealousy issues, but judging by her reaction, I suspect it is KayPea who has a big crush on Frank.

Another detail that caught my eye is how KayPea has become silent recently and new member Sean2012hobby stepped seamlessly in to post messages in fervent support of Frank. The tone and relentlessness makes me come to the conclusion KayPea and Sean2012hobby is one and the same person.


I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that those who rallied the most to collect money from members of IA are those who paid the least to support their hero.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Anyone else noticed how quiet KayPea has become after she was criticised for bashing Bettina on Bruce Fischer's forum? She seemed jealous and overly protective of Frank Sfarzo. She accused Bettina of having jealousy issues, but judging by her reaction, I suspect it is KayPea who has a big crush on Frank.

Another detail that caught my eye is how KayPea has become silent recently and new member Sean2012hobby stepped seamlessly in to post messages in fervent support of Frank. The tone and relentlessness makes me come to the conclusion KayPea and Sean2012hobby is one and the same person.


I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that those who rallied the most to collect money from members of IA are those who paid the least to support their hero.


I don't have access to their member boards Nell, but, from what has been posted here, Kay Pea's comments are certainly personal in nature. There is a post copied here where KayPea tells Bettina that Bettina KNEW what she was getting into. Really? Says to me that KayPea knew, too. I may not be explaining this well, and I apologize. This whole incident with Bettina and Peter and the way they are being treated really rattles my cage. IMO some of them know the truth, and are closing ranks to protect their own interests. It's sickening.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Nell wrote:
Anyone else noticed how quiet KayPea has become after she was criticised for bashing Bettina on Bruce Fischer's forum? She seemed jealous and overly protective of Frank Sfarzo. She accused Bettina of having jealousy issues, but judging by her reaction, I suspect it is KayPea who has a big crush on Frank.

Another detail that caught my eye is how KayPea has become silent recently and new member Sean2012hobby stepped seamlessly in to post messages in fervent support of Frank. The tone and relentlessness makes me come to the conclusion KayPea and Sean2012hobby is one and the same person.


I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that those who rallied the most to collect money from members of IA are those who paid the least to support their hero.


I don't have access to their member boards Nell, but, from what has been posted here, Kay Pea's comments are certainly personal in nature. There is a post copied here where KayPea tells Bettina that Bettina KNEW what she was getting into. Really? Says to me that KayPea knew, too. I may not be explaining this well, and I apologize. This whole incident with Bettina and Peter and the way they are being treated really rattles my cage. IMO some of them know the truth, and are closing ranks to protect their own interests. It's sickening.


Hi Napia,

Comments written by Kaypea/Sean2012hobby's can be described as entertaining at best and insulting at worst. I decided not to copy them here, because they are not only offending, they are also a waste of time and space and add nothing to the discussion except documenting that she doesn't have all her marbles. Let me just say that KayPea decided to delete one of her own comments attacking Bettina (it was that bad) and Bruce Fischer is busy editing the verbal abuse out of comments written under the nickname Sean2012hobby so they don't need to be deleted.

While they are lecturing Bettina and Peter about loyalty over at Bruce's forum, Frank Sfarzo's unsubstantiated accusation of his 71 year old Canadian host of sexual molestation is excused. No questions asked. Amazing.

Bruce Fischer wrote:
--- snip ---

The incident in Canada has been blown way out of proportion. I have spoken to both people involved in that dispute as well. There are hard feelings and unfortunately a friendship was severed. I feel bad for all involved. Its a private dispute, nothing criminal, no charges. Frank was not arrested in Canada. Frank was not thrown out of Canada. It was an argument between two people. Frank is not banned from Canada. He had lunch in Canada with a friend yesterday! People here need to stop listening to the lies coming from PMF. I am honestly shocked to see some of our posters buying into their crap.

--- snap ---


FYI: Peter Hoemberg later responded to Fischer's comment and denied that it was correct.

Bill Williams wrote:

Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:37 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:49 am
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e740jph wrote:
p.s. Bill Williams - why are you hiding?


Hiding? I'm right here.

I regard this as a private matter between two people who are telling wildly different accounts of something that is between them.

Stuart


So for all readers: If you have been verbally abused, insulted or pushed, it is a private problem that you better keep to yourself! If you are wrongly accused of sexual molestation by a liar, don't make a fuss about it. It is just a disagreement between two adults!

Bruce Fischer stated earlier that Frank had done nothing that would make him think he wasn't saying the truth, so is he suggesting Sfarzo's Canadian host did sexually molest him?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
On IA they made it sound as if the landlord was bullying Frank into paying some outrageous sum he didn't deserve or was entitled to, or else he would change the locks, when in fact the guy just wanted to get paid the outstanding rent.


It's amazing how things suddenly seem to make sense when viewed in the proper light. When I first saw that 10,000 € figure, I thought it was a ridiculous scam. Now I see that it was, in fact, a well founded scam.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Itchy Brother wrote:
Nell wrote:
On IA they made it sound as if the landlord was bullying Frank into paying some outrageous sum he didn't deserve or was entitled to, or else he would change the locks, when in fact the guy just wanted to get paid the outstanding rent.


It's amazing how things suddenly seem to make sense when viewed in the proper light. When I first saw that 10,000 € figure, I thought it was a ridiculous scam. Now I see that it was, in fact, a well founded scam.


I am only surprised that Frank's supporters never asked any questions about the landlord's motives to ask for a security deposit. Reading the whole "Frank Sfarzo Losing his apartment due to lack of funds"-thread on IA is a real eye opener. One member stated she hoped the money she send Frank was enough for a few months rent! Peter Hoemberg wrote in a recent comment that he donated $5,000 and both, Bettina and Peter paid flight tickets and accommodation for Frank Sfarzo.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Bruce says:

Quote:
I do not know her motives but I know how it appears. Her first contact with me was not to find help for Frank but to tell me that Frank was a fraud and now the entire world would know.


Her first contact was not to find help for Frank? This has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read. Seriously, stop-the-presses, and-the award-goes-to...Academy Award Winning stupid. And so transparent.

Her motive, in case it is not now obvious, was seeking support after a traumatizing experience. And Bruce thinks she should have been seeking help for Frank? Beyond belief.


So I'm not the only one who's jaw hit the keyboard after reading that sentence. I actually had to read it twice because I had a hard time believing that anyone could write something so stupid. Bruce, you've outdone yourself.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Another interesting find from Jools on .org:

Jools on .org wrote:
Re: XXX. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCTOBER 27, 2012 -

Post by Jools » 28 Nov 2012, 00:17

Yesterday I translated a Umbria24 article about the Sollecitos and Telenorba trial & the Bari prosecutor Antonio Laudati asking for the case to be archived...

Well, now I'm confused. :giggle:

Tonight I came across a recent article about the same Bari prosecutor: Antonio Laudati. I'm not translating the entire article as I don't have the time and is not that important, but here is the headline...

"Laudati leaves the Procura"

The magistrate is accused of having favored Berlusconi in Lecce and Taranto.
(...)
[Antonio] Laudati is accused by the Salento [Puglia] prosecutors of having favored Silvio Berlusconi and Gianpaolo Tarantini (in the escort girl investigation) and having spied on two magistrates from his office:
Pino Scelsi and Desirée Digeronimo...
http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2012/11 ... ri-al-csm-“laudati-lasci-procura”/415655/


Source
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Anyone else noticed how quiet KayPea has become after she was criticised for bashing Bettina on Bruce Fischer's forum? She seemed jealous and overly protective of Frank Sfarzo. She accused Bettina of having jealousy issues, but judging by her reaction, I suspect it is KayPea who has a big crush on Frank.

Another detail that caught my eye is how KayPea has become silent recently and new member Sean2012hobby stepped seamlessly in to post messages in fervent support of Frank. The tone and relentlessness makes me come to the conclusion KayPea and Sean2012hobby is one and the same person.


I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that those who rallied the most to collect money from members of IA are those who paid the least to support their hero.



'Sean2012hobby' is obviously a sock puppet especially created, for no other purpose, but to savage and bully the victims of this affair, along with anyone else that dares ask serious questions, into silence. This 'Sean2012hobby' who is an 'expert' on the case, an expert on PMF and an expert on Frank Sforza just 'suddenly' appears (why hadn't they joined long before now if they really exist?) to start attacking Bettina? It's blatantly KatPea!!!

Taking cowardice to a whole new level. They can't even bully their own under their regular screennames!

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Another interesting find from Jools on .org:

Jools on .org wrote:
Re: XXX. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCTOBER 27, 2012 -

Post by Jools » 28 Nov 2012, 00:17

Yesterday I translated a Umbria24 article about the Sollecitos and Telenorba trial & the Bari prosecutor Antonio Laudati asking for the case to be archived...

Well, now I'm confused. :giggle:

Tonight I came across a recent article about the same Bari prosecutor: Antonio Laudati. I'm not translating the entire article as I don't have the time and is not that important, but here is the headline...

"Laudati leaves the Procura"

The magistrate is accused of having favored Berlusconi in Lecce and Taranto.
(...)
[Antonio] Laudati is accused by the Salento [Puglia] prosecutors of having favored Silvio Berlusconi and Gianpaolo Tarantini (in the escort girl investigation) and having spied on two magistrates from his office:
Pino Scelsi and Desirée Digeronimo...
http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2012/11 ... ri-al-csm-“laudati-lasci-procura”/415655/


Source



Thanks for bringing that over, Nell. I'm so glad to hear this!

The twists and turns in this case...

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Nell wrote:
Anyone else noticed how quiet KayPea has become after she was criticised for bashing Bettina on Bruce Fischer's forum? She seemed jealous and overly protective of Frank Sfarzo. She accused Bettina of having jealousy issues, but judging by her reaction, I suspect it is KayPea who has a big crush on Frank.

Another detail that caught my eye is how KayPea has become silent recently and new member Sean2012hobby stepped seamlessly in to post messages in fervent support of Frank. The tone and relentlessness makes me come to the conclusion KayPea and Sean2012hobby is one and the same person.


I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that those who rallied the most to collect money from members of IA are those who paid the least to support their hero.


I don't have access to their member boards Nell, but, from what has been posted here, Kay Pea's comments are certainly personal in nature. There is a post copied here where KayPea tells Bettina that Bettina KNEW what she was getting into. Really? Says to me that KayPea knew, too. I may not be explaining this well, and I apologize. This whole incident with Bettina and Peter and the way they are being treated really rattles my cage. IMO some of them know the truth, and are closing ranks to protect their own interests. It's sickening.


Not all of them are buying the bullshit being spoon fed to them by Bruce Fisher and KatPee or tolerating the bullying of Frank's victims...and are even asking serious questions about Frank. Nell (thanks Nell) copied this over to the staff subforum earlier:

Randy N wrote:
Post subject: Re: Mud slinging thread - Frank, Hawaii, Canada
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:41 pm
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 932

Amazing! A post that includes calling a member "a fraud", "a disturbed person" , "a spy", "a stalker" , and someone guilty of illegal harassment and the reply is that yes I find these things troubling too? All under the warning don't play doctor and keep it civil. I say doctor heal thyself.

I have seen the public statements of two abused persons. They have told their stories in one place or another and complain if you must but I see an effort to dissuade them from freely speaking here by qualifying with subjective analysis. Maybe they had too much to drink? Maybe they had too high of expectations...even maybe they are crazy???WTF??? Really???

What is clearly missing is Franks story... well actually Franks two stories... three stories if he wishes to explain why he needed 10,000 Euros just a few short months ago. Sure we have heard Bruce say that he has "heard both sides" and remains neutral...but I think Frank owes his supporters and benefactors his explanation and his take of these two serious allegations of abuse against him. We know he is a big boy and more than capable of defending himself. So let us hear your side Frank?

And bit of clarification from the mods because I see personal attacks against members that certainly are unqualified, inappropriate, and just plain wrong... so it appears that anything goes then....is that correct? Because I am about to unleash here and Id like to know now rather than waste keystrokes.

Franks blog in Perugia was his work. The fact that he could not turn that into a paying proposition seems to me to be his own fault. Frank did what any reporter should have done...presented the truth. He is not a hero... just a reporter. Was he reporting in Syria with bullets and bombs going off? No.
Frank could have but did not write a book, a screenplay, or some sort of profitable endeavor based on this case and using his blog (which is mostly excellent btw) as the outline. Barbie, Russell and Follian did it...why not Frank?...face it...Frank had his 15 minutes of fame...and he was unable to capitalize on that and he has himself as the only person to blame. So he goes on a vacation and decides it is wise to piss in his own food dish while enjoying the generosity of his hosts...not a decision I would make but who am I to judge?

Someone mentioned what would you expect if you hosted JD Salinger...? Well it is an unfair comparison...Salinger was a successful writer so I could expect to not be cheated of 5,000 dollars then as thanks to be crapped on, called horrible names and abused because I could not give you 25 thousand more dollars...
But fine lets write that off to drunks...

So BW....you took the pics...are they an accurate depiction? Were you all drunk? Are you confirming or denying what? Maybe an unnecessary question since it appears no police were called during your visit. That came later.

Serious accusations ...ones that could land a man in jail...he tried to molest me....really? Really really??

Id like to hear Franks side...anytime you are ready Frank. I'm all ears.

And could we please stop further abuse of the already victimized? It just feels wrong. I am more than glad to hear Franks story. I think that is fair. He is a great writer ....should be an easy task for him.



Bruce thinks his members are stupid and treats them accordingly. Some of them are not so stupid after all.

But, I do need to remind Randy R of something. Frank DID write and sell something, a story to Oggi magazine apparently. But, according to Bruce, Frank has hardly needed to spend any of it as his donors and hosts have all been so generous! Now, doesn't that make you all feel warm inside? At least we all know Frank has a enough for a plane ticket from Seattle back to Perugia!

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Once again and in order to talk about something else, than Mr Negativity, and the other Ms/ Mrs/Mr Negativititos,

the angle again that lies, I reckon, behind how it is, what would initially have seemed lke ordinary citizens, turns out to be a case of extreme dumbed-down-ness, coupled with a far deeper lying problem, one that I've often touched on here, about identity, identity of the main protagonising clan-like mentality condition, not huge in numbers, but able to latch into what is a relatively small number of minds within the national populace, but because America is so vast, then the numbers are quickly quite a few more than could even be possible elsewhere.

Knox and Sollecito, they had two different ranges of problems, Knox's based on her very own brand of not belonging-ness, and therefore, her nervous disposition through life, saw her doing things at the personal level in order to overcome her fears and feelings at the emotional level, to hide thus from herself and others behind a barrier of fronts, props put up to make herself feel okay, to feel as if she was wanted, was worthy, but where that living in no man's landness (not based on her personal reality or anyone else's), caused her in actual circumstances and situations, to lose control, as she definitely experienced others as people who were against her, because she did not have a balanced spectrum of self-esteem where, through lessons learned, she could draw from that, and use it to avoid feeling bad, such as, if your parents did show you that if you are you, and you harm nobody, or are not the things others might say or be saying that you are, it means therefore that you should not feel bad or even get mad, as it is a matter of their opinions, and if you know it is not true what they are saying, then it is more their problem than yours.

Therefore, a person who knows what is what and has learned how to be strong that way, in fact does not tend to let her/himself get involved with people who play games or are nasty like that. However Meredith, she knew how to react, how to act, but was in a situation that was slightly out of her control, as she sensed through observing, very quickly, that Knox was not okay for her, the problem for Meredith was that she was living under one roof with Knox, an unbalanced, it does seem to be the case, person.

Meredith did not have the issues that Knox clearly appears to have.

Meredith even speaking up for herself, to Knox - without Knox understanding the mechanism of it all herself - meant she experienced it as an affront to her right to be, an affront to this image Knox was putting out about and of herself, a self that was based on sandy ground and could topple any moment, and Knox, within that, was forever building her castles of diversionary measures, to hide her nervousness from others, so she appeared to be socialising, taking part, but she needed to have that pat on the back all the time, by being told you are good, good because she achieved a thing, but not then in fact unconditionally good, and the lack of the unconditional driving her ever-onward down a bad path of behaviour.

Those latching onto and intermingling, mixing their problems with her problems, had certain things triggered in them by her, and this triggering material, was not complicated, it is a deep-rooted issue concerning identity, that goes back hundreds of years, in some minds, this is why it is selective, only certain people behaved like zombies in America as far as running to support someone like Knox.

To her supporters, Knox's appeal/the trigger for them to draw them in, was to do with the part of it where KNox's face had a the teddy bear element, her young face, additionally, a malr oriented way even a female way, would see people thinking ah, shéss too pretty to lock up, we just want her home, send the troops in, so this case has seen partly sexualized behaviour (meaning it would not have happened the way it did if she had been ugly or old or a male).
I'm guessing, because of her looks, if she is a Plain Jane, she is not an ugly one, but more than this, it has to do with people and their identities, where things can exist in a country that has been built upon immigration, people having come from all over the world to be become America, becoming in some cases racists and xenophobes. How insane is all of that?

After all, fact is, not all Americans integrate, there are whole districts in cities where different groups residem, seperately.

This underlying insecurity must come from some people who feel threatened in their sense of identity and that is why they are so fanatically-minded when they conceive of needing to protect, I say conceive but I doubt any of these people see it as their problem therefore they would never have analysed why it is they opt to do and say certain things.

They do it part unconsciously, because like Knox, somewhere in them is housed a certain nervousness, because they are saying we belong and this is ours, yet somehow they instinctively feel that they do not belong.

When people with mentalities and hidden anxieties like this operate, or function, or do certain things it's like having a replacement in Europe and that foreign country over there someplace, the replacement of fighting some perceived enemy, not Indians in War Paint, but those foreigners there, where everything is dangerous, Europe, dangerous, don't go on holiday to that there Europe, they'll scalp you.

They are running guns, trading in horses for guns and liqueur, we'll cut em off at the pass. War drums, vicious looking savages with war paint, oh those barbaric Europeans who do not allow people to be put to death through courts of law, those barbaric Europeans, where if you go there and kill someone they are going to getchtya for doing it, how could this be, we are the greatest and nobody should touch us.

In fact it's all a Jesus the Messiah complex, these simple-minds with anxiety and delusional images in their minds, see themselves as entitles to be untouchable, above all others, like a Jesus, mighty, powerful.

But because they are in fact the products of immigration which there is by the way, nothing wrong with, they somehow are protective of the bits of land on this planet that they reside on, anything not tallying with their happy families idea, of the dog in the garden, the hose in the garden, the pickup in the drive, the kids in college, the mama baking apple pie, is as though a busload of Afghanis just showed up in their church or on their plane asking who has a light for their bomb fuse.

A-Mand-a, you will not go to that Italy country place there with the foreigners, that bad other part of the world, everywhere, okay, so let's not talk about this no more right, nothing happened, someone dies, it was 'in Bruce's eyes', probably nobody's business, just between them.

This xenophobia though prominent and abundant among the Knoxy Brethren, I never knew it existed this way, I always thought of the worst types and cases of racism being a thing from the deep south, but well, however, let's not over-simplify the root causes; this is not as simple as plain racism, it goes way back, and it exists as perceived threats to the identity and right to be/exist as you. It's something played into by successive American governments, through the practice of separation through utterances/speeches/words, where it is a matter of 'us and them'.
This was used to play into and misuse this identity issue, it's used everyday on the news, 'our troops'.

Knox became the our troops thing.

The mentality there, once this sentiment is played upon or brought into things, people do not question a lot, they perceive it's right and so they donate, and they do not really think, and they certainly do not see a thing.

So, the cavalry were called in, they came a blowing on their own horns.

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Last edited by zorba on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Zorba: Brilliant.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Also in yesterday's conversation with Bettina: she is not aware of the extent of the attacks on her or how Bruce Fischer is colluding in that. She spoke to him on the phone and believed him when he said he was protecting HER privacy. I suggested she read the comments and see for herself. Not easy considering her isolation but she's rectifying that.

And, pertaining to his three month visa, Frank was actively searching for ways to remain in the US, and make money mooching of his supporters. His false allegations against Mignini were his bread and butter in the FOA crowd, but when it wasn't enough, he turned against them. His problem with Bettina was a) she wasn't rich and b) she wouldn't marry him.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Zorba: Brilliant.


Thanks Nap, just trying to get into the belly of it

glad it makes sense

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Zorba: Brilliant.


Thanks Nap, just trying to get into the belly of it

glad it makes sense


Yes it does. Especially the part about the sandy foundation. Possibly sturdy enough when supported and enabled in familiar surroundings, but wobbly and crashing when standing alone, away from familiar support.

And, if I might add not all of them project the role of the saver. Quite a few appear to relate very closely to the role of savee. JMO.

AND, unless I miss my guess, Freud and Jung are somewhere smiling right now. Unless I am projecting. In which case, it's just Freud smiling. And Ergon. hbc)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:44 pm   Post subject: SOLLECITO FAMILY TRIAL   

Following up on Bari prosecutor Antonio Laudati's motion to dismiss the case against the Sollecito family then himself being suspended from office because of corruption and conducting illegal investigations http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/tag/antonio-laudati/

When I heard about this earlier I lol 'ed at the coincidence of the hearing being scheduled for January 13, which just happens to be my birthday :mrgreen: and thought, sure, let's see what happens. Sure enough, the prosecutor's being removed for impeding the investigation into PM Berlusconi.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
Once again and in order to talk about something else, than Mr Negativity, and the other Ms/ Mrs/Mr Negativititos,.........

So, the cavalry were called in, they came a blowing on their own horns.


;)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:32 pm   Post subject: HONOR BOUND REVIEW   

Finished reading Raffaele Sollecito's book "Honor Bound". Now I can return it to the library, where Nina Burleigh's "The Fatal Gift Of Beauty" awaits. Oh, Joy.

Final thought on the book:

pg 240: "The single most atrocious moment of the appael came when Francesco Maresca, the lawyer representin the Kercher family, flashed brutally graphic photographs of the crime scene in open court, including images of Meredith's near-naked body and the ghastly wounds to her neck."

No, I think the single most atrocious moment of the entire case was when your family released the crime scene video showing Meredith's near naked body and gaping neck wound to Telenorba TV. The difference being that Maresca showed the pictures in court, and your family did this on TV. And for which they rightly face a trial. And if in the course of this investigation, based on wiretaps of your family phones, more evidence comes to light showing political interference, the better.

And, speaking of coincidences, the Supreme Court will be ruling on your guilt or innocence around your birthday. Somehow, I doubt you'll be celebrating.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
Anyone else noticed how quiet KayPea has become after she was criticised for bashing Bettina on Bruce Fischer's forum? She seemed jealous and overly protective of Frank Sfarzo. She accused Bettina of having jealousy issues, but judging by her reaction, I suspect it is KayPea who has a big crush on Frank.

Another detail that caught my eye is how KayPea has become silent recently and new member Sean2012hobby stepped seamlessly in to post messages in fervent support of Frank. The tone and relentlessness makes me come to the conclusion KayPea and Sean2012hobby is one and the same person.


I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that those who rallied the most to collect money from members of IA are those who paid the least to support their hero.



'Sean2012hobby' is obviously a sock puppet especially created, for no other purpose, but to savage and bully the victims of this affair, along with anyone else that dares ask serious questions, into silence. This 'Sean2012hobby' who is an 'expert' on the case, an expert on PMF and an expert on Frank Sforza just 'suddenly' appears (why hadn't they joined long before now if they really exist?) to start attacking Bettina? It's blatantly KatPea!!!

Taking cowardice to a whole new level. They can't even bully their own under their regular screennames!


Sean2012hobby just outed Bettina/tamale on Bruce Fischer's forum, so no way this is a newcomer to the case.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

May I add to my former comment that it says a lot that Bruce Fischer didn't decide to edit or moderate the comment in question.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
I can now reveal exactly how it was Frank came to be in trouble over his living arrangements. It would appear that I had things about face. My informant has contacted me to set me straight on the issue. Frank was not forced to move OUT of the apartment (I'm guessing he refused to go), rather it was his sisters who came and took the mother and moved HER out, along with all her money. My informant states:

Quote:
I am now following here and there what you guys are posting on the forum.
Maybe you are wrong in the idea that francesco needed the 10.000 eur for a new appartment, I think he still had to pay the rent, gas, electricity etc.. for months and months that were still due since the day his sisters moved the mother out of the appartment to that secret place they are hiding her for him. He said this himself, that his sisters didn't pay any bills nomore, since mother was out of the house. I guess that must have been around the day the cops came to his place and have 'beaten him up'. Very fair landlord, let him stay for another year without paying any rent.


This also explains why Frank needed so much money. Frank's mother had hitherto paid the rent from her pension and the sisters had paid the other bills for the flat. When the mother was taken away and the sisters stopped paying the bills, Frank had no means of paying the rent or the bills, having no income of his own, and due to a very kind and patient landlord, lived there for month after month not paying rent or the bills with arrears mounting.

So, how did he find himself in this predicament? My source tells me that Frank used to look after all his mothers finances, using that to also pay the rent. But then one day, the sisters came and took over their mother's finances from Frank, accusing him of misusing the money, leaving Frank furious:

Quote:
I can only say what I remember him telling to me, if this is to be trusted from a pathological liar: he took care of his mother all alone for some years and used her pension money in doing that. One day the sisters decided, so he said, he was misusing the money and they took mum and the money away from him. He was very jealous his sisters got that money now.


Reading between the lines (although my source can't say for certain, as they weren't there until after these events), one might guess, that it was the sisters coming along and suddenly taking over the mother's finances that led to Frank's losing his temper to such an extent, that the police had to be called by the mother and he ended up allegedly assaulting them and being arrested.

It was just Frank who lived with his mother (before the sisters took her away to get her away from him). The sisters lived outside of Perugia, up Lago del Trasimeno way, north of Perugia.

This explains why Frank needed 10,000 euros. A year's worth of rent arrears and unpaid bills makes that sound about right. And Frank decided, the best way to get it, was to blame the whole thing on Mignini and sucker Amanda's supporters for it.

Make of it what you will.


Fischer claims to have known about this as it's in the court record (but he still supports Frank).
(hello legal liability)

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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
May I add to my former comment that it says a lot that Bruce Fischer didn't decide to edit or moderate the comment in question.


Amazing, isn't it.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:23 pm   Post subject: Re: SOLLECITO FAMILY TRIAL   

Ergon wrote:
Following up on Bari prosecutor Antonio Laudati's motion to dismiss the case against the Sollecito family then himself being suspended from office because of corruption and conducting illegal investigations http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/tag/antonio-laudati/

When I heard about this earlier I lol 'ed at the coincidence of the hearing being scheduled for January 13, which just happens to be my birthday :mrgreen: and thought, sure, let's see what happens. Sure enough, the prosecutor's being removed for impeding the investigation into PM Berlusconi.


Hey Ergon, hasn’t this corrupt prosecutor already damaged the case by letting the clock run on the statute of limitations? I had always thought the case against the Sollecito family for releasing that video was slam dunk as it was blatantly illegal. It still can be found on the internet; this must be sickening to the Kercher family. I hope the case ends up in the hands of a competent prosecutor soon, before the statute runs out.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

All I know is that this sort of case can be appealed to the SC immediately, to ensure the legal processes are being carried out fairly, louiehaha. Don't have any other info.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

(h/t .org) Title and release date for Knox's book.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/nov ... x-book/?ap
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Michael wrote:
I can now reveal exactly how it was Frank came to be in trouble over his living arrangements. It would appear that I had things about face. My informant has contacted me to set me straight on the issue. Frank was not forced to move OUT of the apartment (I'm guessing he refused to go), rather it was his sisters who came and took the mother and moved HER out, along with all her money. My informant states:

Quote:
I am now following here and there what you guys are posting on the forum.
Maybe you are wrong in the idea that francesco needed the 10.000 eur for a new appartment, I think he still had to pay the rent, gas, electricity etc.. for months and months that were still due since the day his sisters moved the mother out of the appartment to that secret place they are hiding her for him. He said this himself, that his sisters didn't pay any bills nomore, since mother was out of the house. I guess that must have been around the day the cops came to his place and have 'beaten him up'. Very fair landlord, let him stay for another year without paying any rent.


This also explains why Frank needed so much money. Frank's mother had hitherto paid the rent from her pension and the sisters had paid the other bills for the flat. When the mother was taken away and the sisters stopped paying the bills, Frank had no means of paying the rent or the bills, having no income of his own, and due to a very kind and patient landlord, lived there for month after month not paying rent or the bills with arrears mounting.

So, how did he find himself in this predicament? My source tells me that Frank used to look after all his mothers finances, using that to also pay the rent. But then one day, the sisters came and took over their mother's finances from Frank, accusing him of misusing the money, leaving Frank furious:

Quote:
I can only say what I remember him telling to me, if this is to be trusted from a pathological liar: he took care of his mother all alone for some years and used her pension money in doing that. One day the sisters decided, so he said, he was misusing the money and they took mum and the money away from him. He was very jealous his sisters got that money now.


Reading between the lines (although my source can't say for certain, as they weren't there until after these events), one might guess, that it was the sisters coming along and suddenly taking over the mother's finances that led to Frank's losing his temper to such an extent, that the police had to be called by the mother and he ended up allegedly assaulting them and being arrested.

It was just Frank who lived with his mother (before the sisters took her away to get her away from him). The sisters lived outside of Perugia, up Lago del Trasimeno way, north of Perugia.

This explains why Frank needed 10,000 euros. A year's worth of rent arrears and unpaid bills makes that sound about right. And Frank decided, the best way to get it, was to blame the whole thing on Mignini and sucker Amanda's supporters for it.

Make of it what you will.


Fischer claims to have known about this as it's in the court record (but he still supports Frank).
(hello legal liability)



So he knew that the 10,000 euros Frank asked for was unpaid rent?

Bruce Fischer also maintains that he is in possession of a signed authorisation from Mignini to arrest Frank Sfarzo. Frank was arrested due to a call that his mother made to police. Frank resisted arrest and if I remember correctly, he bit a police man in the process. That aggression is what he stands trial for in Perugia. It stems from a family dispute. Since when does police responding to a call need written authorisation from a prosecutor first to make an arrest? That's nonsense.

There is no evidence at all that Frank's pending trial in Perugia has anything to do with his "career" as an investigative journalist and there is no evidence of his career either.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
(h/t .org) Title and release date for Knox's book.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/nov ... x-book/?ap


Thanks for bringing this over Napia.

Waiting to be heard? Seriously?

That they chose to wait until the Supreme Court has ruled makes me believe we can expect more unfounded accusations from Amanda Knox's book against authorities, inmates and prison guards. No explanation whatsoever for her false accusation, her DNA mixed with Meredith's blood and her blood in the bathroom on the tap of the sink.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
There is no evidence at all that Frank's pending trial in Perugia has anything to do with his "career" as an investigative journalist and there is no evidence of his career either.


Indeed. I have it from my informant, that Frank's last paying job (which was a very long time ago) was as a waiter in a discotheque. All we are left with, is a failed attempt to launch a career as a professional journalist and writer. I have no problem with people trying to better themselves or failing in the attempt (it's far more admirable to try and fail then to not try at all), but Frank's various claims about his past careers, not least about having been a professional journalist, are bogus. He was an amateur blogger who then became a wannabe, that's all.

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
(h/t .org) Title and release date for Knox's book.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/nov ... x-book/?ap

Italians think she is just waiting :mrgreen:
http://notizie.tiscali.it/feeds/12/11/2 ... _0115.html
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
(h/t .org) Title and release date for Knox's book.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/nov ... x-book/?ap

Italians think she is just waiting :mrgreen:
http://notizie.tiscali.it/feeds/12/11/2 ... _0115.html


Yes, waiting for the other shoe to drop. wh-)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I think they did a pretty good job with the cover photo, considering what they had to deal with.


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Offline max


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
I think they did a pretty good job with the cover photo, considering what they had to deal with.

Classic. Showered and 'showered'.
Attachment:
Showered.JPG


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

It's a shame make up doesn't work on a soul.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
Nell wrote:
I think they did a pretty good job with the cover photo, considering what they had to deal with.


Classic. Showered and 'showered'.
Attachment:
Showered.JPG


You two are awesome! hugz-)

:)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
It's a shame make up doesn't work on a soul.


Her eyes give her away to me... as in when testifying/lying/etc nw)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I can't help it, but that wench has the eyes of an outsized shithouse rat

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Funny thing, finally seeing the Book Title. What else can scream "daddy issues" more loudly than that?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
I can't help it, but that wench has the eyes of an outsized shithouse rat



:) You're only the second person I know in all my life, zorba, that's used the term "wench". tt-)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Andrea Vogt:

Quote:
Is #amandaknox still waiting to be heard? She had her say in Italy. Now? HarperCollins. @seattlepi has book cover: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Title-release-date-announced-for-Amanda-Knox-book-4074453.php


https://twitter.com/andreavogt
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
zorba wrote:
I can't help it, but that wench has the eyes of an outsized shithouse rat



:) You're only the second person I know in all my life, zorba, that's used the term "wench". tt-)


Thanks for the award, the word THING, did come to mind

Joint book by Krocksx of Shizen and guy that makes ya wanna hit your own kneecaps with a croquette mallet, poke your own eyes out with a red hot poker & fill them with molten lead Sollecito, to be called: Have you heard; I'm waiting for boner hound

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Andrea Vogt:

Quote:
Is #amandaknox still waiting to be heard? She had her say in Italy. Now? HarperCollins. @seattlepi has book cover: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Title-release-date-announced-for-Amanda-Knox-book-4074453.php


https://twitter.com/andreavogt


My thoughts exactly!
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
The poster that was one of the key Frank fundraisers 'Sarah'...she, along with Bruce Fischer, is owner of IIP/IA is she not?
...Jackie, could you perhaps comment on this?


Hi Michael - you're getting ahead of me on the question of whether there has been an act of deceit/ deception. I'm still trying to sort through all of the chatter. What is fact and what is fiction?

There is a Third Circuit (Kona Division) court record for STATE v. FRANCESCO SFORCA (Case ID: 3DCW-12-0000722) indicating that:

1) the defendant, sforCa, was cited/arrested under Hawaii Revised Statutes §711-1106 - Harassment;

2) the docket contains 2 Orders Pertaining to Bail; &

3) the case was "dismissed without prejudice" (thereby leaving the door open for the prosecution to re-file).

Subsection (1)(a) of §711-1106 establishes that "...A person commits the offense of harassment if, with intent to harass, annoy, or alarm any other person, that person:
(a) Strikes, shoves, kicks, or otherwise touches another person in an offensive manner or subjects the other person to offensive physical contact; ...";

Commentary on this provision indicates that it is "a restatement of the common-law crime of battery..." (see, for example: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurren ... 1-1106.htm).

This offense is designated a "petty misdemeanor" which, under Hawaii Revised Statutes §701-107 - Grades and classes of offenses, is defined as a criminal offense for which the maximum prison term is "not to exceed thirty days" (see, for example: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurren ... 1-0107.HTM).

Did "Bettina" refuse to testify? (This might very well explain the dismissal "without prejudice".)

Why are people having trouble finding the court record for the charge(s) in Perugia? If, in fact, "Frank" is Sforca, is it the clever little name game with the letters "c" and "z"?
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jackie wrote:
Michael wrote:
The poster that was one of the key Frank fundraisers 'Sarah'...she, along with Bruce Fischer, is owner of IIP/IA is she not?
...Jackie, could you perhaps comment on this?


Hi Michael - you're getting ahead of me on the question of whether there has been an act of deceit/ deception. I'm still trying to sort through all of the chatter. What is fact and what is fiction?

There is a Third Circuit (Kona Division) court record for STATE v. FRANCESCO SFORCA (Case ID: 3DCW-12-0000722) indicating that:

1) the defendant, sforCa, was cited/arrested under Hawaii Revised Statutes §711-1106 - Harassment;

2) the docket contains 2 Orders Pertaining to Bail; &

3) the case was "dismissed without prejudice" (thereby leaving the door open for the prosecution to re-file).

Subsection (1)(a) of §711-1106 establishes that "...A person commits the offense of harassment if, with intent to harass, annoy, or alarm any other person, that person:
(a) Strikes, shoves, kicks, or otherwise touches another person in an offensive manner or subjects the other person to offensive physical contact; ...";

Commentary on this provision indicates that it is "a restatement of the common-law crime of battery..." (see, for example: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurren ... 1-1106.htm).

This offense is designated a "petty misdemeanor" which, under Hawaii Revised Statutes §701-107 - Grades and classes of offenses, is defined as a criminal offense for which the maximum prison term is "not to exceed thirty days" (see, for example: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurren ... 1-0107.HTM).

Did "Bettina" refuse to testify? (This might very well explain the dismissal "without prejudice".)

Why are people having trouble finding the court record for the charge(s) in Perugia? If, in fact, "Frank" is Sforca, is it the clever little name game with the letters "c" and "z"?



Hi Jackie. Well, Ergon is better equipped to answer the question of whether Bettina refused to testify, since he's the one who's been in direct contact with her. All I know, is that Bettina chose not to proceed with charges. And I don't know if Frank deliberately mis-spelled his name to the authorities, or if it was just a mix-up.

It's the actual police report, rather then the record sheet, we're having trouble finding.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jackie wrote:
--- snip ---

Did "Bettina" refuse to testify? (This might very well explain the dismissal "without prejudice".)

--- snap ---


Hi Jackie,

Ergon spoke to Bettina on the phone and she told him that she had given a witness statement. She didn't appear in court. Her bruises have been photographed by police. Bettina wanted Frank Sfarzo to leave the island. We know that she spoke directly to the prosecutor, but I don't have any details of their conversation. She wrote on the forum that Frank Sfarzo sent her threatening text messages after his arrest.

Ergon wrote:
--- snip ---

She gave a witness statement so didn't even have to appear at the hearing.

--- snap ---


Ergon's original comment can be found here, but please note that some of the information has been corrected later. Frank Sfarzo has not been held for a week in jail. As far as we know he was arrested at the hotel, where the incident occurred, and was later released.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

In regard to the Hawai'n police getting Frank's name wrong (or being given the wrong name), my informant has contacted me to say:

Quote:
fonetically Sforza and Sforça (common name in eastern europe) sound identical and a capital C with the ç underneath is not written ...
He deliberately did put them on the wrong leg I suppose.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Jackie wrote:
--- snip ---

Did "Bettina" refuse to testify? (This might very well explain the dismissal "without prejudice".)

--- snap ---


Hi Jackie,

Ergon spoke to Bettina on the phone and she told him that she had given a witness statement. She didn't appear in court. Her bruises have been photographed by police. Bettina wanted Frank Sfarzo to leave the island. We know that she spoke directly to the prosecutor, but I don't have any details of their conversation. She wrote on the forum that Frank Sfarzo sent her threatening text messages after his arrest.

Ergon wrote:
--- snip ---

She gave a witness statement so didn't even have to appear at the hearing.

--- snap ---


Ergon's original comment can be found here, but please not that some of the information has been corrected later. Frank Sfarzo has not been held for a week in jail. As far as we know he was arrested at the hotel, where the incident occurred, and was later released.


Hi Nell,

FWIW, a witness statement would not suffice - the accused entered a plea of not guilty. The prosecution would have had to put "Bettina" on the stand in order to win a conviction. As a result, she would have been required to face a very stressful and potentially humiliating cross-examination at the hands of the accused's counsel. It is not uncommon for victims/ witnesses to find themselves intimidated by the very idea of such a thing and I cannot help but wonder whether that has occurred in this instance.

As for the question of jail, I would ask you this: If the accused was not in jail, why are there 2 'Orders Pertaining to Bail' in the docket?
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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
I think they did a pretty good job with the cover photo, considering what they had to deal with.


I find the cover and the fact she is being paid off the back of murdering Meredith unbelievably upsetting. I just looked at that cover and tears welled up. If the SC don't call this back to trial then there really is no justice in this world.
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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jackie wrote:
Michael wrote:
The poster that was one of the key Frank fundraisers 'Sarah'...she, along with Bruce Fischer, is owner of IIP/IA is she not?
...Jackie, could you perhaps comment on this?


Hi Michael - you're getting ahead of me on the question of whether there has been an act of deceit/ deception. I'm still trying to sort through all of the chatter. What is fact and what is fiction?

There is a Third Circuit (Kona Division) court record for STATE v. FRANCESCO SFORCA (Case ID: 3DCW-12-0000722) indicating that:

1) the defendant, sforCa, was cited/arrested under Hawaii Revised Statutes §711-1106 - Harassment;

2) the docket contains 2 Orders Pertaining to Bail; &

3) the case was "dismissed without prejudice" (thereby leaving the door open for the prosecution to re-file).

Subsection (1)(a) of §711-1106 establishes that "...A person commits the offense of harassment if, with intent to harass, annoy, or alarm any other person, that person:
(a) Strikes, shoves, kicks, or otherwise touches another person in an offensive manner or subjects the other person to offensive physical contact; ...";

Commentary on this provision indicates that it is "a restatement of the common-law crime of battery..." (see, for example: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurren ... 1-1106.htm).

This offense is designated a "petty misdemeanor" which, under Hawaii Revised Statutes §701-107 - Grades and classes of offenses, is defined as a criminal offense for which the maximum prison term is "not to exceed thirty days" (see, for example: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurren ... 1-0107.HTM).

Did "Bettina" refuse to testify? (This might very well explain the dismissal "without prejudice".)

Why are people having trouble finding the court record for the charge(s) in Perugia? If, in fact, "Frank" is Sforca, is it the clever little name game with the letters "c" and "z"?


I don't think there has ever been a post on this entire board, TJMK or .org that has screamed "Bruce is full of shit" louder. Ergon came damn close but this is awesome. Bravo Jackie x
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jackie wrote:
--- snip ---

FWIW, a witness statement would not suffice - the accused entered a plea of not guilty. The prosecution would have had to put "Bettina" on the stand in order to win a conviction. As a result, she would have been required to face a very stressful and potentially humiliating cross-examination at the hands of the accused's counsel. It is not uncommon for victims/ witnesses to find themselves intimidated by the very idea of such a thing and I cannot help but wonder whether that has occurred in this instance.

--- snap ---


Hi Jackie,

Thank you for your comment. Very interesting.

From what Bettina told us, Frank Sfarzo had sent text messages to her, threatening to reveal personal information about her and she later said she had no interest in getting him prosecuted or punished, she just wanted him to stay away and leave her alone.

She apparently had a change of heart later, because the threatening messages seem to have continued if I understood that correctly, and Sfarzo left the island very quickly. I wondered about that.

Bettina was also bashed and reprimanded on Bruce Fischer's forum in retaliation for revealing his arrest as well as Peter, Frank's Canadian host, who had Frank Sfarzo arrested as well.


Jackie wrote:
--- snip ---

As for the question of jail, I would ask you this: If the accused was not in jail, why are there 2 'Orders Pertaining to Bail' in the docket?

--- snap ---


Hi Jackie,

I didn't mean to say he wasn't arrested at all, he was. We just don't know exactly how much time he spent in jail.

If you say "bail", do you mean Frank Sfarzo had to pay bail to get released from jail? And why are there two orders? Are they for the same incident?
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

daisysteiner wrote:
Nell wrote:
I think they did a pretty good job with the cover photo, considering what they had to deal with.


I find the cover and the fact she is being paid off the back of murdering Meredith unbelievably upsetting. I just looked at that cover and tears welled up. If the SC don't call this back to trial then there really is no justice in this world.


Of course it is upsetting. I don't think neither Raffaele Sollecito nor Amanda Knox should have been allowed to publish their books as long as the judicial process is still ongoing in Italy. On the other hand, we know that these two don't have a spark of decency in their body, so why am I not surprised?

I agree with your sentiment.

Also interesting that Harper Collins didn't rely on any of the many photos that already exist from her.

No matter how much time and effort they invested to make her look nice and pretty for the photo shoot, it doesn't look like her. I don't mean the physical appearance, I think she is recognisable, but you would never meet her looking like that. Nobody has ever seen her like that, not even before she was arrested. It's not her. That in itself already tells you what Harper Collins thinks of her image. The message is loud and clear.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

KayPea is off her meds again!

KayPea wrote:

Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:54 am
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Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:40 pm
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Location: Seattle WA

I like the way Sean analyzed this, though, saw right through the Fog of Nonsense.

To be perfectly honest, since Amanda was arrested, I have watched a never-ending stream of :batshit crazy:: that I never thought I would ever witness in my lifetime. So I have learned never to underestimate the :batshit crazy:: doers and never to be surprised that some :batshit crazy:: nutcase is sitting in some room cooking up the next :batshit crazy:: thing to say about the kids, this case or the IA folks. (that's only 5 :batshit crazy:: , oops 6)

Yep, I'm jaded and suspicious. And for good reason.

So in all seriousness, I do think Frank was targeted, I was initially suspicious of Bettina because of her behavior and I know now, entrenched with the haters as she is, that she is truly up to no good. "Gentle Hippy" riiiiight. Since most long-time posters are aware that the haters have a Perugian pal(s) and that Mignini has it in for Frank. Then, yes, I do think this is very bad for Frank and I'm sure that Mignini is aware of what has happened.

There is much going on behind the scenes, as always, so naturally those gaps make us curious. We want answers that we are not always privy to. C'est la vie. But on the surface I know for sure no serious Supporter would have ever betrayed Frank or us in this fashion. And therefore, that person--Bettina--is certainly not the person who should be trusted to fill in any gaps. Everything she says has to be taken with a grain of salt.

And on a side note, Sean nailed one point that I agree with: Were I inviting a stranger from the internet to stay with me, I would have certainly warned them that I lived in a shack with no bathroom to allow them the choice of whether or not to stay. Frank was not forewarned and was naturally upset, who wouldn't be?? And why is that so weird? I'm pretty sure most of you prefer indoor pluming.

And for those to are believing what is being said on PMF is truth? Then you must also believe that Bruce is a lying hatchet man working for Curt and/or Marriott and that I am a tattooed, chain-smoking hillbilly that lives on top of Old Smokey and that we are both mind controlled by Marriott.

I just can't decided if that is incredibly sad or incredibly hysterical. But what I can say is:

C'mon peeps, consider the source.

And consider that Frank has been honest about who he is, so why doubt him at this point in the game because some chick got pissy and used Frank's personal foibles against him. She knew enough about him to do it, right? She's been writing to him for a few years, right? Enough to invite him to stay, right? And then she dragged the Canada guy into the fray, he at least was content to keep the misunderstandings and personality clashes in house until forced out into the open. And she dragged in a bunch of Seattle folks. And she dragged in people here and at the hater pages.

It's obvious Bettina knew exactly how to screw Frank.

And Frank will no doubt find a way to deal with this openly in his own way and in his own good time. On thing I do know is he is very, very sad about what happened and the way all of us were "included" in his and Bettina's private matter. He is mortified that she aired HER version on PMF.

And I say again "What true supporter would ever do that?" Such behavior is simply :batshit crazy:: (7).

But that, of course, I my opinion drawn from my jaded view of the haters and their crappy tricks. You all have to draw your own, but I suggest you stop looking to PMF for honest answers.

_________________
Mignini è un Bastardo! *peh-tooey*


Surprise, surprise: KayPea and Sean2012hobby agree on this.


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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jackie wrote:
Michael wrote:
The poster that was one of the key Frank fundraisers 'Sarah'...she, along with Bruce Fischer, is owner of IIP/IA is she not?
...Jackie, could you perhaps comment on this?


Hi Michael - you're getting ahead of me on the question of whether there has been an act of deceit/ deception. I'm still trying to sort through all of the chatter. What is fact and what is fiction?

There is a Third Circuit (Kona Division) court record for STATE v. FRANCESCO SFORCA (Case ID: 3DCW-12-0000722) indicating that:

1) the defendant, sforCa, was cited/arrested under Hawaii Revised Statutes §711-1106 - Harassment;

2) the docket contains 2 Orders Pertaining to Bail; &

3) the case was "dismissed without prejudice" (thereby leaving the door open for the prosecution to re-file).

Subsection (1)(a) of §711-1106 establishes that "...A person commits the offense of harassment if, with intent to harass, annoy, or alarm any other person, that person:
(a) Strikes, shoves, kicks, or otherwise touches another person in an offensive manner or subjects the other person to offensive physical contact; ...";

Commentary on this provision indicates that it is "a restatement of the common-law crime of battery..." (see, for example: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurren ... 1-1106.htm).

This offense is designated a "petty misdemeanor" which, under Hawaii Revised Statutes §701-107 - Grades and classes of offenses, is defined as a criminal offense for which the maximum prison term is "not to exceed thirty days" (see, for example: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurren ... 1-0107.HTM).

Did "Bettina" refuse to testify? (This might very well explain the dismissal "without prejudice".)

Why are people having trouble finding the court record for the charge(s) in Perugia? If, in fact, "Frank" is Sforca, is it the clever little name game with the letters "c" and "z"?


Thanks, Jackie!

It should be said, at this point:

Every thing Bettina has said so far has been corroborated.

Everything Francesco Sforza (and his mouth piece BruceFischer) has said so far on this sad story is a fabric of lies, distortions, and legalistic weaseling a la Bill Clinton :)

It really helps to have the case id # on the docket, so, many thanks again.

Yes, I had some initial difficulty finding out the outcome of the case because I was looking for Sfarzo/Sforza (the real problem was I initially said his first name might be listed as Frank, lol) but the lady at Kona District Court found it for me and told me it had been dismissed without prejudice, as I reported. Later, when I asked Bettina again, she confirmed he'd been charged as Francesco SforCa.

Yes, she didn't want to testify, just get him to leave the island. Yes,he did send many threatening texts after the incident. Yes, she still has them and wants to share that with us. Only after I published here that she would be filing another complaint did he cease and finally go back to Seattle. Given the way Bruce Fischer and co. have tried to deflect, then attack her and Peter Hoemberg's credibility, I can understand why she shared it with us. Again, she was a member of PMF before she joined Injustice In Perugia. But anyone who has been abused by Francesco Sforza is welcome to log on here and tell us their side, as is Francesco Sforza, in the interests of honesty and honoring the truth.

I have asked Bruce Fischer to share with his members the police report that he claims to have seen/'obtained'. He's refused, and his members can draw their own conclusions from that.

Bettina has told me it will take up to ten days to get a copy of the police report. In the mean time these are the details she was able to get to me.

Kona Police Arresting Officer - Steve Burkey
Police Report Number - C12030504
Records Dept. will inform within 10 days if the report is releasable.


I'm sure it will be released, and when it is, we WILL publish it, let the chips fall where they may. We here at perugiamurderfile.net are still committed to helping her, and any others, tell their side of the story.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

There is no sense in posting KayPea's nonsense, as far as I'm concerned. She is an enabler, and nothing short of an intervention will open her eyes. She is all about 'saving and protecting Frank.' I'm happy to see though that she is still posting on their site. She couldn't put her foot any further in her mouth if she tried.
Her comments concerning Bettina setting Frank up are ridiculous beyond anything I have ever read. She's in fierce competition with Bruce for the Academy Award for Dumb.

Think about it: Bettina is worried that Frank will release devastating personal information that she shared. Bruce essentially confirmed this by stating that he knew of negative aspects of Bettina's life. To me, it's painfully obvious that, at some point, Bettina trusted Frank, felt comfortable and safe enough with Frank, to share personal information about herself. Secrets. Would someone do this if they were setting someone up? I wouldn't think so, but what do I know? I'm just a logical person.

And about the plumbing: This is a reason to have a physical altercation? The adult thing to do is say, "Im not comfortable with these arrangements, I think I'll go to a hotel."

The point is that KayPea's agenda is obvious. It is all Bettina's fault. Somehow it will work out in KayPea's mind that it is Bettina's fault for dragging Peter into this, because he was content to KEEP HIS MOUTH SHUT.

Just continue to allow KayPea to talk, to post, Bruce. She is doing more harm to your cause than PMF and TJMK combined ever could.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

And, before I forget, about the book: I hate the title, I don't like the picture, I question the timing, and I could go on.
It wouldn't have mattered to me if they had called it "War and Peace", and the cover picture looked like the Virgin Mary or Anita Ekberg. It isn't about the picture or the title, it's about the IDEA that this book is in print at all.

I felt the same way about the Sollecito propaganda piece, and will continue to feel the same things each and every time I think about what they have done, and what they continue to do, while another family waits patiently for justice for their murdered daughter. What do I feel when I look at the book? Simple. Outrage. Sue me.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Think about it: Bettina is worried that Frank will release devastating personal information that she shared. Bruce essentially confirmed this by stating that he knew of negative aspects of Bettina's life. To me, it's painfully obvious that, at some point, Bettina trusted Frank, felt comfortable and safe enough with Frank, to share personal information about herself. Secrets. Would someone do this if they were setting someone up? I wouldn't think so, but what do I know? I'm just a logical person.


This bare logic can't really be faulted.

If someone sets out to entrap or frame someone, they are not going to offer them deeply personal and damaging secrets about themselves. Or if they do, they are going to be made-up ones. Bettina told Frank genuine personal secrets because Bettina was genuine. It was Frank who betrayed Bettina's trust, not the other way around.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
But anyone who has been abused by Francesco Sforza is welcome to log on here and tell us their side, as is Francesco Sforza, in the interests of honesty and honoring the truth.


And they can post their stories here publicly, or they can go through one of the Admins here via the PM system and we will protect their identities if they so wish. Especially as IIP/IA's treatment of Bettina and Peter was designed not only to bully them into silence, but also to dissuade any other victims from coming forward. And I will also say, doing so will not be a condemnation of your faith in the innocence of Knox and Sollecito and it would not be a betrayal of them, rather this is a matter of principle as well the possible prevention of future victim's of Frank Sforza. Justice is justice and we should all be accountable to it. It is wrong that this man should be protected solely for the invested agendas of others. You do not have to fall on your sword for this man, you do not owe him anything. The only people who owe him anything at all are Amanda Knox, Raffaele Sollecito and their families. Let THEM repay him the debt if there is any to be repaid.

And indeed, Frank Sforza is also welcome to post his responses here, if he so wishes. Our aim is fairness, to all parties.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
I'm sure it will be released, and when it is, we WILL publish it, let the chips fall where they may. We here at perugiamurderfile.net are still committed to helping her, and any others, tell their side of the story.


But if we do, we will of course blank out Bettina's personal details.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

It takes some kind of a man to frighten his very own mother,

putting on your mother,

failing to stand on your own two feet.

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Bruce, taking into account all the inside information that KayPea revealed in the above quoted post, I have one question for you:

Did Bettina offer to pay the flight to Hawaii for Frank, or did Frank ask for it? Did I see you mention Oggi on IA, insinuating Frank didn't depend financially on the generosity of his supporters? Yes? Then why didn't Sfarzo pay for his flights himself? Why did Bettina had to pay for his hotel room once the situation became unbearable? Why wouldn't Frank just leave and set himself up in a hotel? That is what a normal person would have done if they had any problems with the current living arrangements.

Frank Sfarzo is a bloody freelaoder, he couldn't afford to leave.

To mock Bettina openly on your forum for living a modest life when she was the one who paid for his travel expenses is very telling, especially when defending a mooch who just scammed people with your help out of thousands of dollars.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
...

I agree with your sentiment.

Also interesting that Harper Collins didn't rely on any of the many photos that already exist from her.

No matter how much time and effort they invested to make her look nice and pretty for the photo shoot, it doesn't look like her. I don't mean the physical appearance, I think she is recognisable, but you would never meet her looking like that. Nobody has ever seen her like that, not even before she was arrested. It's not her. That in itself already tells you what Harper Collins thinks of her image. The message is loud and clear.


Hi Nell, no, it doesn't. It's not her usual facial expression, it's certainly photoshopped to make her appear younger and more like a lamb. Maybe they did do a good job considering what she looked like on recent pictures, but it also looks a little too artificial to me, so in the end it might just give a not so wrong impression...fake!

Oh, and belated congratulations on your promotion to admin! :)
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
Funny thing, finally seeing the Book Title. What else can scream "daddy issues" more loudly than that?


That's funny, Ergon, and so true. Too bad Curt seems to be immune to that...
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt
Milan judge has ordered Mario Spezi (Monster of #Florence co author w/ Douglas Preston) to trial Feb. 18 for calumny of @michelegiuttari.

I suppose this calumny thing is different then the defamation thing we saw earlier? Here are Vogt's earlier tweets.

Quote:
Mario Spezi, co-author w/ Douglas Preston of "Monster of #Florence" convicted of defaming ex-cop Giuttari. Plot thickens.

Monster of #Florence journo Spezi fined €1800 for alleged 2008 defamation. Judge reserved ex-cop Giuttari's right to civil recourse.

By the by, while looking for these old twitters I came across guermantes amazing capabilities to predict the future.

guermantes wrote:
Interesting news about Spezi. Expect a new level of madness in Frank Sfarzo's battle against the Perugian justice authorities. I shudder to think about his state of mind right now.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:18 am   Post subject: SFOR(C)A COMES TO AMERICA   

Here's the picture so far:

- Frank Sfarzo, figuring out early there was a lot more money to be made from the media circus surrounding Knox, ingratiates himself with her supporters.

- Candace Dempsey jumps on first, then Bruce Fischer. Chris Mellox is already on board, and everyone, primed by Prestoon, Spezious, and Burly :) harps on the evil prosecutor Mignini theme long past when he is no longer part of the case.

- Frank sets up a website, defaming PM Mignini, trying very very hard to become a martyr. Groupies swoon and pour donations in. Then, when a judge orders the website to be shut down, Frank claims instant poverty. In the meantime he continues to feed off his mother, and since that is what's he's done all his life, feeding off women, looks for his next marks.

- Even though he already has a new website up, America beckons. There are many rich women there, he thinks, and the media, already primed by Raffale and Amanda's impending best-sellerdom, might just lap him up too.

- Then his sisters whisk his mom away from his clutches, and now he owes unpaid rent. He issues a call for 10,000 euros, which Bruce Fisher pledges to help him raise through his website, Idiots-Anonymous (c) Donations pour in. Frank says, 'thanks, guys, and now I will REALLY go after Mignini and his goons!'. More donations pour in. Just one supporter sends $ 5000, plus tickets to Seattle. Frank does the math: how many Oggi blurbs would he have to write to make that much, not that he's a member of any accredited journalist organization or education in that field?

- Arriving in America, he gets dragged around to Rotary Club meetings, and attends a book signing. And that's it. He has a three month visa, no permission to work, and a court hearing awaits him in Italy. He drags it out a bit by leaving the US to go to Canada then return, but needs to figure out what next. The only option: get married. Except no one seems willing to do it, despite his oleaginous charm(s)

- I do not know, nor do I wish to know, just why Frank went to Hawaii or any personal details. His supporters say it was a vacation, and Bettina says she offered to let him come over for a brief respite. She paid for his ticket (return airfare around $900, so she's now out $2000-my estimates) He pressed her to marry him and move to Seattle, not being too keen on her rustic accomodations. She refused, because he was rude and arrogant from Day 1. Emotional abuse degenerated into the physical, and charges of harassment.

No one should ever condone or excuse abuse. It is not 'Frank being Frank', or the attention seeking of a jealous woman. He accused an innocent man of sexual molestation. He fleeced his supporters. He threw a piece of luggage at Bettina and pushed her in the hotel room, then when she went to the lobby to call the police he followed her and continued the confrontaion in front of witnesses. She has photos of the bruises. Does he have any on his part? Anyone to corroborate his side?

I have no argument with those that honestly believe in either guilt or innocence of Knox and Sollecito. Try to engage in honest debate, that's all I ask. But Francesco Sforza needs to be held accountable for his actions, and so, too, should those that promoted and enabled him, and attacked those who tried to tell the truth.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ava wrote:
Nell wrote:
...

I agree with your sentiment.

Also interesting that Harper Collins didn't rely on any of the many photos that already exist from her.

No matter how much time and effort they invested to make her look nice and pretty for the photo shoot, it doesn't look like her. I don't mean the physical appearance, I think she is recognisable, but you would never meet her looking like that. Nobody has ever seen her like that, not even before she was arrested. It's not her. That in itself already tells you what Harper Collins thinks of her image. The message is loud and clear.


Hi Nell, no, it doesn't. It's not her usual facial expression, it's certainly photoshopped to make her appear younger and more like a lamb. Maybe they did do a good job considering what she looked like on recent pictures, but it also looks a little too artificial to me, so in the end it might just give a not so wrong impression...fake!

Oh, and belated congratulations on your promotion to admin! :)


Hi Ava and thank you!

Any attempt to change her image makes me think there is something wrong with her current image.

For me the issue is that even on days when Amanda Knox tried to look her best, she didn't look anywhere near that photo, style-wise.


Amanda Knox's book is often compared to Jaycee Lee Dugard by the groupies, but that couldn't be further from reality. Jaycee Lee Dugard did not need to cultivate a false image, because she was absolutely innocent of what has happened to her. She didn't use the services of a ghostwriter either. A girl who was held for nearly two decades as a slave could write a book, but "talented" honour student Amanda Knox needs to rely on the services of a professional ghostwriter. Intriguing.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Bruce, taking into account all the inside information that KayPea revealed in the above quoted post, I have one question for you:

Did Bettina offer to pay the flight to Hawaii for Frank, or did Frank ask for it? Did I see you mention Oggi on IA, insinuating Frank didn't depend financially on the generosity of his supporters? Yes? Then why didn't Sfarzo pay for his flights himself? Why did Bettina had to pay for his hotel room once the situation became unbearable? Why wouldn't Frank just leave and set himself up in a hotel? That is what a normal person would have done if they had any problems with the current living arrangements.

Frank Sfarzo is a bloody freelaoder, he couldn't afford to leave.

To mock Bettina openly on your forum for living a modest life when she was the one who paid for his travel expenses is very telling, especially when defending a mooch who just scammed people with your help out of thousands of dollars.


Bruce Fischer wrote:
Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:56 am
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--- snip ---

Funny that Nell, a person that is afraid to have an unmoderated conversation with me, continues to ask me questions on .net. If she wants answers all she has do to is ask me directly, like an adult.

--- snap ---


Just to clarify Bruce: I am not afraid to have an unmoderated conversation with you, I am just not interested. My comment wasn't meant as a question, it was rather pointing out the obvious. Please forgive my sarcasm. Deep down you are very comfortable with not having to engage directly with us in a discussion about Frank Sfarzo's three arrests, because you would end up locking the thread like you did with the last one and it would make you look stupid.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:05 am   Post subject: Re: SFOR(C)A COMES TO AMERICA   

Ergon wrote:
Here's the picture so far:

- Frank Sfarzo, figuring out early there was a lot more money to be made from the media circus surrounding Knox, ingratiates himself with her supporters.

- Candace Dempsey jumps on first, then Bruce Fischer. Chris Mellox is already on board, and everyone, primed by Prestoon, Spezious, and Burly :) harps on the evil prosecutor Mignini theme long past when he is no longer part of the case.

- Frank sets up a website, defaming PM Mignini, trying very very hard to become a martyr. Groupies swoon and pour donations in. Then, when a judge orders the website to be shut down, Frank claims instant poverty. In the meantime he continues to feed off his mother, and since that is what's he's done all his life, feeding off women, looks for his next marks.

- Even though he already has a new website up, America beckons. There are many rich women there, he thinks, and the media, already primed by Raffale and Amanda's impending best-sellerdom, might just lap him up too.

- Then his sisters whisk his mom away from his clutches, and now he owes unpaid rent. He issues a call for 10,000 euros, which Bruce Fisher pledges to help him raise through his website, Idiots-Anonymous (c) Donations pour in. Frank says, 'thanks, guys, and now I will REALLY go after Mignini and his goons!'. More donations pour in. Just one supporter sends $ 5000, plus tickets to Seattle. Frank does the math: how many Oggi blurbs would he have to write to make that much, not that he's a member of any accredited journalist organization or education in that field?

- Arriving in America, he gets dragged around to Rotary Club meetings, and attends a book signing. And that's it. He has a three month visa, no permission to work, and a court hearing awaits him in Italy. He drags it out a bit by leaving the US to go to Canada then return, but needs to figure out what next. The only option: get married. Except no one seems willing to do it, despite his oleaginous charm(s)

- I do not know, nor do I wish to know, just why Frank went to Hawaii or any personal details. His supporters say it was a vacation, and Bettina says she offered to let him come over for a brief respite. She paid for his ticket (return airfare around $900, so she's now out $2000-my estimates) He pressed her to marry him and move to Seattle, not being too keen on her rustic accomodations. She refused, because he was rude and arrogant from Day 1. Emotional abuse degenerated into the physical, and charges of harassment.

No one should ever condone or excuse abuse. It is not 'Frank being Frank', or the attention seeking of a jealous woman. He accused an innocent man of sexual molestation. He fleeced his supporters. He threw a piece of luggage at Bettina and pushed her in the hotel room, then when she went to the lobby to call the police he followed her and continued the confrontaion in front of witnesses. She has photos of the bruises. Does he have any on his part? Anyone to corroborate his side?

I have no argument with those that honestly believe in either guilt or innocence of Knox and Sollecito. Try to engage in honest debate, that's all I ask. But Francesco Sforza needs to be held accountable for his actions, and so, too, should those that promoted and enabled him, and attacked those who tried to tell the truth.


Hi Ergon and thank you for such an excellent recap of the situation that has unfolded. The excuse of the abuse you mention in your post was the reason I decided to quote KayPea's nonsensical comment. People need to be made aware who the enablers are and what their modus operandi is.

KayPea wrote:
--- snip ---

And on a side note, Sean nailed one point that I agree with: Were I inviting a stranger from the internet to stay with me, I would have certainly warned them that I lived in a shack with no bathroom to allow them the choice of whether or not to stay. Frank was not forewarned and was naturally upset, who wouldn't be?? And why is that so weird? I'm pretty sure most of you prefer indoor pluming.

--- snap ---


Why upset? How is there any reason to become upset? Personally, I think someone living off other people's money shouldn't make any demands at all.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

What is the going rate for a seven page article (approx. 3,800 words) in OGGI?

FS wasn’t entitled to work in the US since he was on a tourist visa, but that won’t stop the US from taxing that income.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt
Milan judge has ordered Mario Spezi (Monster of #Florence co author w/ Douglas Preston) to trial Feb. 18 for calumny of @michelegiuttari.

I suppose this calumny thing is different then the defamation thing we saw earlier? Here are Vogt's earlier tweets.

Quote:
Mario Spezi, co-author w/ Douglas Preston of "Monster of #Florence" convicted of defaming ex-cop Giuttari. Plot thickens.

Monster of #Florence journo Spezi fined €1800 for alleged 2008 defamation. Judge reserved ex-cop Giuttari's right to civil recourse.

By the by, while looking for these old twitters I came across guermantes amazing capabilities to predict the future.

guermantes wrote:
Interesting news about Spezi. Expect a new level of madness in Frank Sfarzo's battle against the Perugian justice authorities. I shudder to think about his state of mind right now.


Interesting. Calumny? Did she really use that word? And indeed it's different to defamation as otherwise, she'd have used the word defamation, or some other similar word. Nobody uses the term calumny anymore. It sounds to me like Andrea is suggesting the charge is callunia but didn't use that word as she knows many of her twitter followers would be scratching their heads about what that meant. If it IS callunia then that's extremely serious for Spezi, that's a mandatory jail term if convicted. And it would mean that at some point, Spezi knowingly falsely accused Giuttari of a crime either to the police, a judge or a court.

Unless, Andrea really only means defamation. Perhaps she may write up an article on it tomorrow and explain further.

But anyway, whatever's going on, the FOAKers can't blame Mignini for it this time. This is a Milan court with Milanese prosecutors going after him this time.

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
max wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt
Milan judge has ordered Mario Spezi (Monster of #Florence co author w/ Douglas Preston) to trial Feb. 18 for calumny of @michelegiuttari.

I suppose this calumny thing is different then the defamation thing we saw earlier? Here are Vogt's earlier tweets.

Quote:
Mario Spezi, co-author w/ Douglas Preston of "Monster of #Florence" convicted of defaming ex-cop Giuttari. Plot thickens.

Monster of #Florence journo Spezi fined €1800 for alleged 2008 defamation. Judge reserved ex-cop Giuttari's right to civil recourse.

By the by, while looking for these old twitters I came across guermantes amazing capabilities to predict the future.

guermantes wrote:
Interesting news about Spezi. Expect a new level of madness in Frank Sfarzo's battle against the Perugian justice authorities. I shudder to think about his state of mind right now.

Interesting. Calumny? Did she really use that word? And indeed it's different to defamation as otherwise, she'd have used the word defamation, or some other similar word. Nobody uses the term calumny anymore. It sounds to me like Andrea is suggesting the charge is callunia but didn't use that word as she knows many of her twitter followers would be scratching their heads about what that meant. If it IS callunia then that's extremely serious for Spezi, that's a mandatory jail term if convicted. And it would mean that at some point, Spezi knowingly falsely accused Giuttari of a crime either to the police, a judge or a court.

Unless, Andrea really only means defamation. Perhaps she may write up an article on it tomorrow and explain further.

But anyway, whatever's going on, the FOAKers can't blame Mignini for it this time. This is a Milan court with Milanese prosecutors going after him this time.

Thanks Michael. She then must mean callunia because the defamation case already ended earlier with an €1800 fine. More serious, and now looking at jail time I think. AK knows all about it. The guilty charge for the defamation case is not a good omen for this upcoming case either me thinks.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Max wrote:
The guilty charge for the defamation case is not a good omen for this upcoming case either me thinks.


Nope! And the evidence file and Judges Report from the defamation trial can be used in the callunia trial. I hope he's got really good lawyers as otherwise, he's going to jail. The only way he'd be able to avoid jail if convicted, is if the sentence is less then two years, in which case it would be suspended. But I can't see that happening, not when a conviction for callunia would come right on the back of a previous defamation conviction. A lot would depend on whether the judges are merciful and take account of his old age and poor health as mitigation. Were I Spezi, I'd seriously consider taking the abbreviated trial route.

Max wrote:
...the defamation case already ended earlier with an €1800 fine.


Plus court costs. Plus also the cost of his lawyers. And now with another trial looming, this could all get very expensive for Spezi. He's up to eyeballs in debt as it is. And in fact, that's another factor that may see him put in jail, a lack of ability to pay court costs and compensation. Maybe Preston will stick his hands in his pockets to help his old pal out ;)

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
What is the going rate for a seven page article (approx. 3,800 words) in OGGI?

FS wasn’t entitled to work in the US since he was on a tourist visa, but that won’t stop the US from taxing that income.


It was an Oggi exclusive, which means they paid the Sollecitos big money for the exclusive rights to review Raffaele's book. Can't say how much, but Oggi does pay big bucks for the salacious stories they run. Then they give the story to Frank to write? Something smells fishy here. I've always thought of Sfarzo as being connected to the Knox campaign, but now it seems he has an in with the Sollecitos as well? Surely they would have a say in letting such a sleazy character write on a review of their kid's book? Perhaps, Sforza and the Sollecitos always had their roots intertwined beneath the surface, like aspens :)
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Just wanted to end my evening on a lighter note.
Considering all of the obvious distress over lack of indoor plumbing would it be safe to assume that KayPea and Frank won't be spending any time at The Burning Man?
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Just wanted to end my evening on a lighter note.
Considering all of the obvious distress over lack of indoor plumbing would it be safe to assume that KayPea and Frank won't be spending any time at The Burning Man?


Oh, very sharp :)

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
Then they give the story to Frank to write? Something smells fishy here.


Well, he'd have had a LOT of help from the editor and probably some of the staffers. But I know, that's not the point you're making.

Ergon wrote:
I've always thought of Sfarzo as being connected to the Knox campaign, but now it seems he has an in with the Sollecitos as well?


Well, yes. We've known that for a long time. I remember, there was a time back when Frank was still being critical of Knox, that he suddenly stopped being critical of Sollecito. And then from that point, he hardly talked about Sollecito at all. We found that 'odd'.

Understand, the reach of the Sollecito family is very long. At least, within Italy. Papa not only has money, he's 'connected'.

_________________
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Offline dollycat


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
I think they did a pretty good job with the cover photo, considering what they had to deal with.


Most days I feel positive that there will be justice in this case, one way or another - there has to be, I cant let myself think of the alternatives. Other days the odds seem insurmountable what with the cretins and their dodgy dealings and the killers with their money-making books - how did all this happen?? what is going on? It's like a horrible evil parallel universe. This book and its cover make me feel really low and so sad for Meredith's family.

x
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt
Milan judge has ordered Mario Spezi (Monster of #Florence co author w/ Douglas Preston) to trial Feb. 18 for calumny of @michelegiuttari.

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt
Also on 2013 #Italy court docket: the calumny case of #Perugia police vs. #amandaknox over her abuse claims. Hearing Feb. 5.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Interesting timing of the callunia case for Knox. I had half expected they were going to drop it after the previous delay because the police was 'too busy'. I don't know if this is strategy or what, but as it stands now it will be before the SC hearing in March.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

dollycat wrote:
Nell wrote:
I think they did a pretty good job with the cover photo, considering what they had to deal with.


Most days I feel positive that there will be justice in this case, one way or another - there has to be, I cant let myself think of the alternatives. Other days the odds seem insurmountable what with the cretins and their dodgy dealings and the killers with their money-making books - how did all this happen?? what is going on? It's like a horrible evil parallel universe. This book and its cover make me feel really low and so sad for Meredith's family.

x


Yes, I know it can be disheartening, dollycat. A slick book cover, which might well look like Raffaele's to hit the remainder bin, no matter how much they publicize it. As one fevered supporter put it, it'll sell a few thousand, er, "millions". Way I look at it, there are all many kinds of justice, no matter which way the supreme court rules.

Ps: Did they photoshop in three more inches of neck? ;)
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Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Posts: 503

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
For the sake of completeness I will quote Peter Hoemberg's aka e470jph statement here after he published it on IA. This is his version of events.


e740jph wrote:

Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:17 pm
User avatar
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:47 am
Posts: 76
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Bruce Fischer wrote:
RoseMontague wrote:
Bruce Fischer wrote:
I'm done reading the PMF's for the year. Christmas is coming and nothing significant will be occurring until the new year. This thread can now go back to being the entertainment thread that it was intended to be. :)



And I am done reading here for the year. In what other case on this board have we relied on the cops to tell us the correct version of things as you are with this appeal to authority in Frank's case? My gut is telling me that we have not been fair to Bettina on this and I am not going to rely on the cops pressing charges or not for certainty that something happened or didn't.

Talk to you next year. Hope everyone here has a great Holiday.



Rose, why do you think we have relied on the cops to tell us the correct version of things? I talked to everyone involved Rose. I have spoken to everyone involved with the incident in Canada and Hawaii.

Bettina has one story, Frank has another. We don't have anything else to work with. The police reviewed Bettina's story and decided there was no case. If you want to get hung up on one post that was deleted then you are free to do so. I have spoken to Bettina multiple times and she is well aware of the fact that she is free to post here. All I asked was that she did not make false accusations regarding Frank committing criminal acts against members of this group.

Some members here have been a little harsh toward Bettina. That does not mean I share their views. The criticism stems from Bettina posting on .net. I personally don't care where people post. I did say it looked suspicious that Bettina ran to Ergon to tell her story. She explained in a PM why she did that and we understand each other now. I have no negative opinions of Bettina. I have no proof of any wrongdoing against her or Frank. We do our best to allow personal opinions here. We just ask that members don't libel other members.

The incident in Canada has been blown way out of proportion. I have spoken to both people involved in that dispute as well. There are hard feelings and unfortunately a friendship was severed. I feel bad for all involved. Its a private dispute, nothing criminal, no charges. Frank was not arrested in Canada. Frank was not thrown out of Canada. It was an argument between two people. Frank is not banned from Canada. He had lunch in Canada with a friend yesterday! People here need to stop listening to the lies coming from PMF. I am honestly shocked to see some of our posters buying into their crap.

If I receive credible information that discredits Frank, I will be the first one to come here and post it. I have no personal reason to defend Frank. The only reason I am talking about this is because it is here on this forum.



I spent 2 hours with Canadian immigration officials trying to get Frank Sfarzo into Canada for his second visit. They finally agreed to let him in on the condition that he would not be able to re-enter if he left Canada. I think we all know than Mr. Sfarzo's visit ended up disastrously. Unlike Bettina, I have tried to keep quiet about the reasons why I finally had to call the police to remove Frank from my premises. Also, unlike the guilters, I believe firmly that AK and RS are innocent.

Frank was not asleep at 4:00 a.m. when I called the police for assistance. Instead I felt increasingly threatened after a totally unnecessary hostile argument. I was subsequently interviewed the next day by a police officer (with tape recorder) to clarify questions about Sfarzo accusing me of sexual molestation. Talk about a desperate "Hail Mary Pass".

The police then advised that he had returned to the US. I have had a number of p.m. with Bruce. He did not give me the courtesy of advising me me of his decision.

So, I am calling you out on this one, Bruce. You are the moderator, but I can disagree and be disappointed with your decision. Unfortunate! I should have saved the $5,000 I donated for Frank's support.

p.s. Bill Williams - why are you hiding?


Italy passed a law in 2010 reducing the cash transaction amount allowed from 12,500 euro to 5,000 euro All in an attempt to reduce tax evasion.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I spent some time revisiting Professor Snape's article on TJMK with regard to the Sollecito book signing at the University of Washington on September 25.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php ... frog_know/

I'm not seeing Frank in any of the pictures. Judge Heavey also appears to be absent. I think I'm going to research Rotary meetings for this date. Perhaps that was the reason for their absence. Curious, this.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Frank was in the extreme right (facing the audience) taking reporterly notes. I think we posted his pics and at .ORG
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
Frank was in the extreme right (facing the audience) taking reporterly notes. I think we posted his pics and at .ORG



Thanks, Ergon, I'll look more closely.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

From .ORG, and Frank is third row, extreme right, Napia5. There might be more in their galleries.

Image
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Yes, thanks. Small-blip mention of Frank on boths sites and I missed them both. My apologies.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:35 pm   Post subject: THE MEREDITH KERCHER MEMORIAL   

Hi, everyone. In just under six hours, the Meredith Kercher Fund website will go live. http://themeredithkercherfund.com/
Please let's give a moment's thought then for her and her family.
Perugia Murder File is proud to have been able to help them. Whatever anyone can donate would be appreciated, but it is above all the efforts of the many people who gave of their time to help get the truth out there, which matters. If members could post links from there tomorrow that would be great, as a memorial for Meredith.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:10 pm   Post subject: Re: THE MEREDITH KERCHER MEMORIAL   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, everyone. In just under six hours, the Meredith Kercher Fund website will go live. http://themeredithkercherfund.com/
Please let's give a moment's thought then for her and her family.
Perugia Murder File is proud to have been able to help them. Whatever anyone can donate would be appreciated, but it is above all the efforts of the many people who gave of their time to help get the truth out there, which matters. If members could post links from there tomorrow that would be great, as a memorial for Meredith.


Thanks Ergon for reminding us to pause and remember Meredith r-(( and reflect on why we are here.

Napia wrote:
Thanks, Ergon, I'll look more closely.


Hi Napia, you can see Sfarzo a little better in this picture:

Attachment:
UW audience 2.png


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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt
Milan judge has ordered Mario Spezi (Monster of #Florence co author w/ Douglas Preston) to trial Feb. 18 for calumny of @michelegiuttari.

I suppose this calumny thing is different then the defamation thing we saw earlier? Here are Vogt's earlier tweets.

Quote:
Mario Spezi, co-author w/ Douglas Preston of "Monster of #Florence" convicted of defaming ex-cop Giuttari. Plot thickens.

Monster of #Florence journo Spezi fined €1800 for alleged 2008 defamation. Judge reserved ex-cop Giuttari's right to civil recourse.


Thanks, max, for sharing Andrea's tweet. Peter Quennell posted this on .org earlier today:

Fast Pete wrote:
Bard etc above asked what this is about.

Michele Giuttari is going after Spezi in various jurisdictions over various claimed defamations. Sorta death by 1000 cuts. He won a defamation judgment last month.

This case is apparently about claims Spezi made that Giuttari included confidential information in the Il Mostro book.

Il Mostro is a great source book on the MOF case, George Clooney, by the way. More accurate and gripping than the whiney-loser anti-Italy book you were thinking might make a good film.


http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=123339#p123339

Michele Giuttari's Il Mostro:

Attachment:
Giuttari's Il Mostro.jpg

http://www.amazon.it/mostro-Anatomia-in ... 8817016284


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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
By the by, while looking for these old twitters I came across guermantes amazing capabilities to predict the future.

guermantes wrote:
Interesting news about Spezi. Expect a new level of madness in Frank Sfarzo's battle against the Perugian justice authorities. I shudder to think about his state of mind right now.


Hey max, thanks for the compliment. I have always had flashes of intuition about people and places, since I was a child.

In relation to those who are involved in this case, I make this specific prediction: ten years from now, Carlo Dalla Vedova will have moved to Russia, to the "Venice of the North" or "Paris of the East" (St. Petersburg) [http://www.st-petersburg-life.com/], most likely to represent clients in oil and gas litigation, appeals, energy law, etc This might sound weird but this is what is going to happen.

Come back to this forum or get in touch with CDV in ten years' time :) and you will see what I mean. Don't ask me how I know. ;) Other predictions concerning members of both PMF forums are of a more personal nature, so can't post them on a public forum. sun-)

I'm going to return the compliment by saying that I like to reread some of your old posts. You have written some really great, well-researched posts; here is one that I like, regarding the bathmat shuffle, etc cl-)

http://www.perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?p=95455#p95455
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

The Meredith Kercher Fund website just went online.

Very nice design.

I wanted to read the chapter about the case, but it leads you back to the home page.

Quote:
We would like to take the opportunity to thank everyone that has helped and supported us through this extremely difficult time. Nothing can prepare you for a tragic event like this, however friends, family and the public have given us strength and shown just how much people care.

The Meredith Kercher Fund will be used as platform to understand how it can later be converted for public benefit, to help others who tragically find themselves in a similar situation to us. In the meantime, please find the links to some websites that may be of benefit to you or someone you may be trying to help who has lost a loved one.


Image
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Thanks Nell. When I follow the link to the Meredith Kercher Fund website, all I get is the clock that is now standing still at 000000, and nothing else. I can't get the website to load. Maybe it's my browser (Firefox)? Is anyone else experiencing the same problem as me?
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Wow, lovely site, just reading a few words is soothing.
Very pleased about this

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Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

The site loads fine for me (Firefox). Not all menu items are finished yet I see, such as 'The Case'. Maybe that will be a link to PMF? :)

Other news:
Knox lawyers caution against Perugia murder film
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Thanks Nell. When I follow the link to the Meredith Kercher Fund website, all I get is the clock that is now standing still at 000000, and nothing else. I can't get the website to load. Maybe it's my browser (Firefox)? Is anyone else experiencing the same problem as me?



Working fine here Guer
non-firefox
not in Uk either

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
The Meredith Kercher Fund website just went online.

Very nice design.


Judging by your screen shot, yes, very nice design. Green is the color of hope, renewal, and immortality.

The Meaning of Green
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Thanks Nell. When I follow the link to the Meredith Kercher Fund website, all I get is the clock that is now standing still at 000000, and nothing else. I can't get the website to load. Maybe it's my browser (Firefox)? Is anyone else experiencing the same problem as me?


Hi Guermantes,

Try holding the Shift-key down and then clicking on the round arrow in the address bar to reload the page. This way the website will be loaded again without reading it from the cache.

I use Firefox too.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Judging by your screen shot, yes, very nice design. Green is the color of hope, renewal, and immortality.

The Meaning of Green


I thought the same thing and wondered if this had anything to do with their choice.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

The below quote is from the website The Meredith Kercher Fund.

The Meredith Kercher Fund wrote:
The Meredith Kercher Fund Limited is a not-for-profit company which has been set up to support Meredith's case in its final steps. The Meredith Kercher Fund has been established with the help of the appropriate legal and charitable experience offered to us as in support of our situation as well as an experienced Fund Administrator who has been appointed to ensure the accountability and transparency of the funds.

The objectives of The Meredith Kercher Fund are as follows:

1.1 To ensure that the circumstances of Meredith Kercher's death are thoroughly investigated and that those directly involved as well as those who played or play any part in assisting them are identified and brought to justice; and

1.2 To provide support, including financial assistance, to Meredith Kercher's family including legal fees and associated travel costs.

2. If the above objects are fulfilled then the objects of the Foundation shall be to pursue such purposes in similar cases arising in the United Kingdom, Italy and elsewhere."

The Kercher family has not and will not use any donations as remuneration; only to support the final stages of the case which we are hoping will be finished early 2013. The aim is to then convert the Fund into a charity to help and support others (objective point 2) with the possibilty of supporting other students so will be used as a platform to assess how best to do this.

Donations to the fund so far:

Friends and family have donated their own money to support Meredith's case so far as well as requests from the general public for a way to donate and offer their support. The Kercher family have received no compensation in this case, however proceeds from 'Meredith's' book written by John Kercher have all contributed to the fund. The official fund has now been set up following numerous suggestions.

Why is it not a registered charity yet?

The Fund is currently focused on Meredith's case so cannot register as a charity. However, once the above objectives have been fulfilled, the aim is to use it as a platform to understand how The Meredith Kercher Fund can help others. It will then donate any remaining money to other charities and continue to fundraise with a view to gain charitable status and benefit others.

Can gift aid or tax relief be claimed on my donation? This is only available to registered charities, so not at the moment.

What will the money be spent on?

In the final steps of the case in the second appeal, the money will help with any financial costs for the Kercher family including legal fees and associated travel costs (as outlined above). Going forward, any money leftover will be donated to relevant charities supporting similar cases to ours and potentially other students. These will be listed on the website.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I would like to make a donation, but I cannot find any information on the website. Have I overlooked something?
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Another showered and 'showered' pic by the Telegraph. Maybe they read here? :)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... Heard.html
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
I would like to make a donation, but I cannot find any information on the website. Have I overlooked something?

Not ready yet?
Quote:
Over the next coming weeks this web site will be updated with more information on how we can raise money for the Fund, please subscribe to get the latest updates straight into your inbox
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Thanks Nell. When I follow the link to the Meredith Kercher Fund website, all I get is the clock that is now standing still at 000000, and nothing else. I can't get the website to load. Maybe it's my browser (Firefox)? Is anyone else experiencing the same problem as me?


Hi Guermantes,

Try holding the Shift-key down and then clicking on the round arrow in the address bar to reload the page. This way the website will be loaded again without reading it from the cache.

I use Firefox too.


Thanks for the great and simple tip, Nell. It worked!!! Yay-)

I've bookmarked the page so I can quickly access it later.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Knox lawyers caution against Perugia murder film
Seems like Knox actually saw the movie herself. She is scared :mrgreen:
Quote:
"There is a trial underway and so we consider the broadcast to be untimely," lawyer Luciano Ghirga told ANSA. Knox said she did not like the film and "has asked us what we can do to prevent it being shown in Italy," he added.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Thanks Nell. When I follow the link to the Meredith Kercher Fund website, all I get is the clock that is now standing still at 000000, and nothing else. I can't get the website to load. Maybe it's my browser (Firefox)? Is anyone else experiencing the same problem as me?


Hi Guermantes,

Try holding the Shift-key down and then clicking on the round arrow in the address bar to reload the page. This way the website will be loaded again without reading it from the cache.

I use Firefox too.


Thanks for the great and simple tip, Nell. It worked!!! Yay-)

I've bookmarked the page so I can quickly access it later.


I am glad to hear it worked ;)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

There are some fundraising events coming up shortly, tba.
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