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XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31, 12 - MARCH 29, 13 (S)

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

daisysteiner wrote:
capealadin wrote:
And..a couple of observations. ABC reports that Knox will be at a disadvantage..because she won't be there to testify or give * spontaneous declarations *.

Excuuuuuuuse Me. Defendants in Italy can lie with impunity. And do. With NO penalties.

Also...There won't be any fundraising this time for Knox. People will figure with all that lolly from the book, she doesn't need any. Dingdingdingdingding.


Want my most cynical thought since the appeal was approved? I'll bet my house that Knox is pregnant/has a kid before this hits the SC for the final time, especially if this re-run appeal goes against her. She'll do literally anything to beat this charge. If Sollecito breaks, she'll be pregnant before Bongiorno gets to Raffaele's house to take his new statement. I'm a woman and if I were in Knox's shoes, with Knox's moral compass/sociopathic tendencies, I'd be pregnant already. Hell will freeze before the US extradites a pregnant woman/recent mother, a single girl with no ties has more chance of being extradited. Sad fact.

Huge apologies for the cynicism but desperate times...out of all the things I want the FOA to refute and be right, I hope this is one of those things. I'll even apologise if Knox is without child and not pregnant come the final SC round.


The moment I read your post..I thought..Bingo. Can you imagine? Having a child..as a get out of jail free card? And here I always went for Park Place :)

Apropos not much. I had a thought about the Jody Arias trial. It was something I noticed and it was never mentioned. So..I popped off an email to HLN ( the station broadcasting the trial..just about 24/7.

Long-ish story short..I said..if Jody's finger was broken in January..how come her handwriting is EXACTLY the same in the following months? A broken ring finger..your writing is going to be different..especially the first week.

I heard nothing...until 2 nights ago. Vinnie Politan..does a show..and says there's a mystery box. Guess what was in it? Copies of Jody's journals..and he does the * AHA *..Look at this.blah blah. The pundits go..wow..I never thought of that.

The thing is: He should have said a viewer sent in the observation. Not make out it was him. Right? I tell you Daisy...people watching these trials can come up with things even experienced lawyers miss.

A caveat now, though. Your clever thought may now get back to Knox. If she DOES get preggers..it's going to be YOUR fault :) :)

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Waiting to be Heard: Amanda Knox to go ahead with book promotion despite retrial
Her memoir 'Waiting to be Heard' is due to be published at the end of April

Wednesday 27 March 2013
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 51470.html

"ABC plans to broadcast Knox’s first TV interview conducted with Diane Sawyer to US audiences on the evening of 30 April. An ABC spokesman confirmed that the interview, which has not yet been recorded, is still scheduled to air on a special broadcast."

If this is true, AK will probably explain us about double jeopardy and how the Italian justice system works...yawn.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

And Ava..we know going in that all the questions will habe been gone through..decided which ones can be asked..answers rehearsed..and, of course..on any unexpected tricky ones..Knox will say she can't answer ( discuss) because of the upcoming re-trial.

And, because she'll be doing her usual * best that she can remembers..*..lies..* I was scaaaaaared..I was confused..they beat me crap.....yeah..it'll be yawnsville.

As for answers why she accused an innocent man..well that one has been gone through..rehearsed a zillion times, I'm sure. With help from psychologists etc. Kreest :(

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

capealadin wrote:
daisysteiner wrote:
capealadin wrote:
And..a couple of observations. ABC reports that Knox will be at a disadvantage..because she won't be there to testify or give * spontaneous declarations *.

Excuuuuuuuse Me. Defendants in Italy can lie with impunity. And do. With NO penalties.

Also...There won't be any fundraising this time for Knox. People will figure with all that lolly from the book, she doesn't need any. Dingdingdingdingding.


Want my most cynical thought since the appeal was approved? I'll bet my house that Knox is pregnant/has a kid before this hits the SC for the final time, especially if this re-run appeal goes against her. She'll do literally anything to beat this charge. If Sollecito breaks, she'll be pregnant before Bongiorno gets to Raffaele's house to take his new statement. I'm a woman and if I were in Knox's shoes, with Knox's moral compass/sociopathic tendencies, I'd be pregnant already. Hell will freeze before the US extradites a pregnant woman/recent mother, a single girl with no ties has more chance of being extradited. Sad fact.

Huge apologies for the cynicism but desperate times...out of all the things I want the FOA to refute and be right, I hope this is one of those things. I'll even apologise if Knox is without child and not pregnant come the final SC round.


The moment I read your post..I thought..Bingo. Can you imagine? Having a child..as a get out of jail free card? And here I always went for Park Place :)

...

A caveat now, though. Your clever thought may now get back to Knox. If she DOES get preggers..it's going to be YOUR fault :) :)


If so, there'll surely be wedding bells ringing before...remember the pictures where she took dancing lessons with Orange Pants? :) (I think it was Ergon who pointed that out at the time)


Last edited by Ava on Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Sorry for posting a dm-article with propamanda...

It will shock you to the core': Amanda Knox's autobiography to be published next month despite retrial over Meredith Kercher's murder.
By Paul Thompson

PUBLISHED: 16:47 GMT, 27 March 2013 | UPDATED: 16:48 GMT, 27 March 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... urder.html

"He (Robert Barnett, her agent) hinted that the book will contain major revelations that will help sway public opinion in favour of Knox.
He said:'People will see when Amanda Knox goes public with her interview with Diane Sawyer on ABC [on April 30] that she is mature beyond her years.
'She is extremely smart. She has taken a set of experiences that are almost impossible to imagine and learned from them and marched through them with incredible dignity and respect."
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Offline Emerald


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Computer question....

On every site, the animated graphics don't work. youtube and video are okay, but smilies and avatars don't animate. Can anyone help? TIA
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz said that Italian prosecutors might very well extradite Knox. And, if retried, she "likely will be found guilty -- because the evidence supporting a conviction is pretty strong."

Knox, now 25, has established a fan base in the United States "because she has a beautiful face and an angelic appearance," Dershowitz said. "But remember, she originally admitted she was at the scene of the crime and she tried to blame an innocent man -- for which she was also convicted."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/26/justi ... ?hpt=hp_c3


A YLS grad who became the youngest full prof in the hallowed history of HLS dares to contradict furriers, hair dressers, food bloggers, truffle salesmen, horror novelists, car accident engineers, vertical gardeners, cessna pilots, PR hacks and patent holding scientists searching for market opportunities?!

What has the world of crim law come to?!

With Dershowitz endorsing the majority opinion at PMF, it seems the dark and lonely times of my fave victims' rights advocates are well and truly at an end!

I'm celebrating (hard) in Las Vegas!

If only Cape could be here...

;-)
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jackie wrote:
louiehaha wrote:
Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz said that Italian prosecutors might very well extradite Knox. And, if retried, she "likely will be found guilty -- because the evidence supporting a conviction is pretty strong."

Knox, now 25, has established a fan base in the United States "because she has a beautiful face and an angelic appearance," Dershowitz said. "But remember, she originally admitted she was at the scene of the crime and she tried to blame an innocent man -- for which she was also convicted."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/26/justi ... ?hpt=hp_c3


A YLS grad who became the youngest full prof in the hallowed history of HLS dares to contradict furriers, hair dressers, food bloggers, truffle salesmen, horror novelists, car accident engineers, vertical gardeners, cessna pilots, PR hacks and patent holding scientists searching for market opportunities?!

What has the world of crim law come to?!

With Dershowitz endorsing the majority opinion at PMF, it seems the dark and lonely times of my fave victims' rights advocates are well and truly at an end!

I'm celebrating (hard) in Las Vegas!

If only Cape could be here...

;-)


Hang on, m'love..you said the Magic Words. :) I'm packing as I type. Send info to me..in code.. sun-)

LOL.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

You forgot to mention 1st class world travellers..with a penchant for numbered ducks.....

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Uffa. I would LOVE to be in Vegas right now. Tsk. Hope you're having a blast..I should be there rul-)

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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

capealadin wrote:
You forgot to mention 1st class world travellers..with a penchant for numbered ducks.....


Our phone engineer is not just first class, Cape - he "flys private" 8-)

You'd better get out here fast, Cape - if I keep losing money at this rate it's going to be McDonald's instead of "CraftSteak" for dinner tonight! LOL
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Offline Emerald


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Emerald wrote:
Computer question....

On every site, the animated graphics don't work. youtube and video are okay, but smilies and avatars don't animate. Can anyone help? TIA


Never mind. I fixed it by clearing all FireFox settings and starting over.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jackie wrote:
capealadin wrote:
You forgot to mention 1st class world travellers..with a penchant for numbered ducks.....


Our phone engineer is not just first class, Cape - he "flys private" 8-)

You'd better get out here fast, Cape - if I keep losing money at this rate it's going to be McDonald's instead of "CraftSteak" for dinner tonight! LOL


:D Yeah..well..next time you'll give me advance notice..and you'll be able to rake in my winning chips..and Mickey D's will never cross your mind.

Keep an eye out...Mr. Tour D'argent may be at Craftsteak....and then it'll be an early night for you if you are within earshot. p-(((

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

SOME people have to go do some work. Love * seeing you *...........

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

How's this for crazy ... I thought I was locked out from posting on the board for ... oh, maybe the last couple of years ... all because I was using the wrong user name! I finally seached back through the threads from a couple of years ago, figured out what my user name was and voila, not locked out at all.

I am so very happy to see that the appeal has been nullified, squashed, eliminated and wiped out. It is so good to know that there is now a new possibilty for justice to be served.

And ... thanks for all the posts and updates over the last couple of years.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hey Jester, great to see you back! :)
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

capealadin wrote:
And Ava..we know going in that all the questions will habe been gone through..decided which ones can be asked..answers rehearsed..and, of course..on any unexpected tricky ones..Knox will say she can't answer ( discuss) because of the upcoming re-trial.

And, because she'll be doing her usual * best that she can remembers..*..lies..* I was scaaaaaared..I was confused..they beat me crap.....yeah..it'll be yawnsville.

As for answers why she accused an innocent man..well that one has been gone through..rehearsed a zillion times, I'm sure. With help from psychologists etc. Kreest :(


In that regard the SC ruling was a gift for her. She won't be able to answer almost any question.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nice to see you dropping in, Jester. See you are still using your favorite picture as an avatar. ;) Yeah, we are all exhilarated and relieved that the Cassation court has quashed the acquittals, even though American media outlets try to minimize the real consequences of that decision.

Here is how American newscasters report about it today (on TODAY ;) )

Amanda Knox "shocked' over retrial

http://www.today.com/video/today/51345518#51340447

Prosecutors raise 16 errors in Amanda Knox case

http://www.today.com/video/today/51345518#51345518
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Nice to see you dropping in, Jester. See you are still using your favorite picture as an avatar. ;) Yeah, we are all exhilarated and relieved that the Cassation court has quashed the acquittals, even though American media outlets try to minimize the real consequences of that decision.

Here is how American newscasters report about it today (on TODAY ;) )

Amanda Knox "shocked' over retrial

http://www.today.com/video/today/51345518#51340447

Prosecutors raise 16 errors in Amanda Knox case

http://www.today.com/video/today/51345518#51345518


Thanks! All these questions about whether Knox can be successfully extradited after her conviction is confirmed seem based on the fact that US law does not permit the prosecution to appeal a court decision. I don't really understand this viewpoint. Most countries allow for an appeal by both the prosecution and the defence, so what we are seeing in Italy is part of most normal court processes. It seems to me that if the conviction is confirmed and extradiction papers are submitted to the US, on what legal basis could the US deny the extradiction?

Any thoughts on whether the appeals can be heard separately, or is it a point of law that because they were tried together, they must appeal together?
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Today's overly dramatic headline (can only be taken with a grain of salt; you have to consider the source of course)

The colour drained from her face as her world fell apart: Amanda Knox fell into boyfriend's arms when she was told she will face retrial over Meredith Kercher's murder

Amanda Knox collapsed and had to be supported by her boyfriend yesterday when she was told she would face a retrial over the murder of Meredith Kercher.

The American was at home with her family in Seattle when she received a phone call at 2am telling her an Italian court had quashed her acquittal for the killing.

She was shattered by the news, and turned to her lover James Terrano in an attempt to 'keep positive' despite the new development.


DAILY MAIL
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Offline jeffski


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Excellent new article on TJMK.
http://t.co/4lkseozVDE
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Today's overly dramatic headline (can only be taken with a grain of salt; you have to consider the source of course)

The colour drained from her face as her world fell apart: Amanda Knox fell into boyfriend's arms when she was told she will face retrial over Meredith Kercher's murder

Amanda Knox collapsed and had to be supported by her boyfriend yesterday when she was told she would face a retrial over the murder of Meredith Kercher.

The American was at home with her family in Seattle when she received a phone call at 2am telling her an Italian court had quashed her acquittal for the killing.

She was shattered by the news, and turned to her lover James Terrano in an attempt to 'keep positive' despite the new development.


DAILY MAIL


The sooner that she suffers the consequences for her actions, the better.

I wonder how Knox's If I Did It book is going to be received given that she is no longer not guilty.



Oops, maybe this is more appropriate

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Popper's summary of yesterday's Porta a Porta (very informative, as usual)

Porta a Porta program on RAI UNO
26 March 2013

Bruno Vespa is the host
Guests are
Simonetta Matone, judge
Sabina Castelfranco, journalist CBS
Giuseppe Castellini, journalist Giornale Umbria
Paolo Crepet, Psychologist
Roberta Bruzzone, Criminologist (wrote a report in a book on the forensics and DNA of this case, book "L'assassinio di Meredith Kercher")
Maresca, lawyer for Kercher family


ROUGH SUMMARY TRANSLATION (apologise for errors)
--------------------------
Initial presentation and CLIP of what happened today

Matone started saying that cancellation was to be expected. Adds that Cassazione may give clear indications. As an example it may say that a court cannot ignore the other Cassazione ruling (ref Rudy Guede). Cassazione will give guidelines, new appeal will have to take into account such guidelines.

Castelfranco as usual talks about trivial things. She starts saying US public has not understood the 3 level system. Matone stops her saying it is a 2 level system, Supreme court just checks all is done within the law. Matone says system is better if many levels, there are people in the US with one trial innocent in jail for 10 years no appeal.

Bruzzone says she was quite certain about this ruling and she wrote it in a book.

Maresca says he is satisfied about the verdict.

Castellini also says he expected that, the appeal verdict was weak.

Matone says the story of Guede is denied by DNA traces. Guede left undeniable traces on the scene of the crime. There is no doubt he was there. The trial vs AK and RS starts as AK contradicted herself. But the core of the trial is played in the reading of the DNA traces. There are traces in the bathroom (mixed traces AK/MK), footprints in blood (AK/RS), phone traces, witnesses ignored by appeal [and considered by first degree trial] clochard and Conad store guy, bra clasp … etc. Bra clasp is very important. RS is placed on the crime scene by bra clasp.

Bruzzone counts the story of the bra clasp found in another place. In the lab DNA of RS especially in the metal of the bra clasp. Could the bra clasp be contaminated?

Maresca clarifies. Bra clasp is not the only element. The first degree trial has a lot of other elements. Failed alibis, behaviour of Knox, phone call to mother and much more. There is much much more. Court of first degree analyses elements, appeal ignores them, only expert review and 2 elements. There were many traces, mixed blood was not re-analysed as instructed to them.

Vespa has feeling Amanda and Raff have different roles. He wants to understand that.

CLIP interview of Giulia Bongiorno. Talks abou knife and braclasp. Bongiorno happy to re-do testing on bra clasp. On the ground floor there were other traces not analysed (considered traces of cats). I will ask for it. She says she expected to lose after the “relazione”. There are rumours of Raffaele leaving … she says Raff was acquitted can go where he wants [this is wrong, now Raff is provisionally convicted]

Castellini – difference in role AK/RS? He says prosecutors think AK killed MK, DNA on handle. DNA on tip of blade is MK’s. Other trace - in appeal they found other trace on blade and was not analysed by H-Z. I do not know if possible but should be analysed. AK is in the worse situation, mixed blood traces, court of appeal justification is not good. Prints on the bathmat and in the corridor found with luminol. Compatible with AK/RS in first degree, appeal reconstructs they are Guede’s … he had shoes then takes shoes off, makes no sense.

Matone – autopsy says 2 people killed not one. This is very important. Meredith could not defend herself as she was held. Need 2 people at least.

Maresca - Guede could not have 7 hands. found only one knife but knives were 2.

Conti Vecchiotti found new elements but did not analyse. Bruzzone - C+V thought the DNA was not sufficient so MK trace not considered. This knife was at Sollecito’s. Matone – this is good for defense. This is a strange element in the story. Knife also has starch traces, maybe they have cut bread

Vespa – what is a possible reconstruction? Castellini – RG held MK and touched her. AK with knife and RS other knife. The blow which killed by AK’s. Various wounds are not compatible with one weapon.

Crepet – RG says AK/RS are the killers, it is clear what he says even if at beginning he did not wish to say expressly. It is a normal behaviour of killers. In Novi Ligure the girl Erika she was the leader (Erika who killed mother with boyfiend). Here it could be the same. Vespa says it is possible one did not want and the other killed (Vespa seems to be defending RS).

Vespa – what is the advantage to RG of not talking? Matone – says she does not understand, the help he tried to give MK is true. RG should have chosen a normal trial so it would have clarified who did what. He is the one who knows the truth.

Castelfranco – RG is the one who escaped. Matone – OK but does not mean anything.

In the US - Castefranco says – they think there is no evidence [she seems to be a broken record].

Matone – it is difficult to do many other analyses.

CLIP who is Amanda Knox. --- about behaviour of AK and her character.

Castellini – prosecution says AK/RS are home, MK comes back and they have an argument. AK calls RG. Crime may be a revenge by AK

CLIP on Raffaele

CLIP of Meredith’s mother before appeal verdict. Mother asks why that evidence may have no value now ... Stephanie says there are 10,000 pages of evidence, they hope judges get to the truth. Mother: we ask nothing, evidence is evidence. We ask only for justice. S: People who were there must tell the truth.

Matone – what Cassazione writes will be very important and be a guideline. We must read motivations of Cassazione. They may deposit verdict quite soon.

Matone - [she is a judge and always very professional and calm] says that in general public opinion and pressure did not help the trial especially the PR pressure from the USA … very bad that even US politicians interfered, bad climate. Not good for justice. Crepet says : a secretary of State should not talk before the end of a murder trial. It is highly irregular. Castelfranco says there was no evidence and conviction to 25/26 years is too much in this case, this is why they talked. Matone says Italy has a better rep in international criminal collaboration, both for minors and adults … some countries defend their people to the extreme even if guilty. Someone quotes the examples of the Cavalese case and the case of CIA members the US did not extradite [in these cases defendants were not common people however]. Somebody else [Bruzzone who is involved] talks of Chico Forti who was convicted for murder with one trial no appeal, now been 13 years in jail in the US with a highly dubious decision.

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=129342#p129342
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Today's overly dramatic headline (can only be taken with a grain of salt; you have to consider the source of course)

The colour drained from her face as her world fell apart: Amanda Knox fell into boyfriend's arms when she was told she will face retrial over Meredith Kercher's murder

Amanda Knox collapsed and had to be supported by her boyfriend yesterday when she was told she would face a retrial over the murder of Meredith Kercher.

The American was at home with her family in Seattle when she received a phone call at 2am telling her an Italian court had quashed her acquittal for the killin

She was shattered by the news, and turned to her lover James Terrano in an attempt to 'keep positive' despite the new development.


DAILY MAIL



Hey G :)

So..already a few things wrong with that announcement. Was she devastated..or putting on a brave face?

Was she standing at 2.00 am...or sitting so she could turn to loves James * The Pants * ?

In any event..why was she shocked? On Monday her attorney and others said she was nervous. So..not too surprised..I would think.

Her * shock * is nothing compared to Patricks REAL shock when he was arrested. Pfft.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hey hey Jester. Now..how could you ever have thought..for a SECOND that you would be locked out? :)

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jester wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Today's overly dramatic headline (can only be taken with a grain of salt; you have to consider the source of course)

The colour drained from her face as her world fell apart: Amanda Knox fell into boyfriend's arms when she was told she will face retrial over Meredith Kercher's murder

Amanda Knox collapsed and had to be supported by her boyfriend yesterday when she was told she would face a retrial over the murder of Meredith Kercher.

The American was at home with her family in Seattle when she received a phone call at 2am telling her an Italian court had quashed her acquittal for the killing.

She was shattered by the news, and turned to her lover James Terrano in an attempt to 'keep positive' despite the new development.


DAILY MAIL


The sooner that she suffers the consequences for her actions, the better.

I wonder how Knox's If I Did It book is going to be received given that she is no longer not guilty.



Oops, maybe this is more appropriate



You certainly haven't lost any of your skills, Jester. Bravo :)

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Thanks so much, G. Verrrry interesting. Bongiorno is going to do the * Jessica * Rabbit thing. For sure.

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

capealadin wrote:
Hey hey Jester. Now..how could you ever have thought..for a SECOND that you would be locked out? :)


It was just a crazy thought! I repeatedly entered the incorrect user name, was repeatedly told that I didn't exist and just assumed the wrong thing. I was able to read, so I have been keeping up with the case.

I have soooooooooo missed having a safe place to post my creative inspirations.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

LOL. I remember CLEARLY some of your finer efforts.

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

capealadin wrote:
LOL. I remember CLEARLY some of your finer efforts.


I have looked everywhere for some of the illustrations that I had produced related to this case but they're gone from my photobuckted account. I'm not sure where they went, but since this case is back on track, I'll have lots of time to reproduce them!
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

You were missed for sure! Happy you are back.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:55 pm   Post subject: REPORT FROM ROME   

Todays il Messagero has a three page spread (including the cover) on the case and Casszione's ruling. Prominent place to Mark Waterbury, "forensic specialist" quacking away about the Perugian police's 'incompetence' and Mignini, according to script.
Mark Waterbury's a forensic specialist?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Douglas Preston has written an opinion column for the USA Today. Can't believe he is still going on and on about attempts by the prosecution to "save face."

Knox victim of Italy's messy criminal system
by Douglas Preston

So what's going on with this latest Knox verdict? It is essentially a prosecutorial face-saving effort.


USA TODAY

Aslo published in TUSCON CITIZEN
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

It seems that the rumors are true: Sollecito was planning to move to Switzerland.

Amanda Knox's former boyfriend planned new life in Switzerland
By Nick Squires

Amanda Knox's former boyfriend was so confident that their acquittals for the murder of Meredith Kercher would be upheld by Italy's highest court that he had his bags packed and was planning to move to Switzerland to start a business.

Raffaele Sollecito was planning to spend Easter with his family in Bari, on the Adriatic coast of southern Italy, and then move to Lugano in Switzerland to start up an internet security firm, it was claimed on Wednesday.

"We weren't expecting a negative outcome", Mr Sollecito told a lecturer at Verona University, where he is studying information technology and robotics, according to Corriere della Sera newspaper. "I was thinking everything would be cleared up."

The lecturer, Prof Roberto Segala, has been a mentor to Mr Sollecito, and gave him the idea of starting up the company in Lugano, which is part of the southern, Italian-speaking part of Switzerland, according to the newspaper.

Mr Sollecito, whose 29th birthday celebrations on Tuesday were ruined by the supreme court's decision, denied suggestions that he was still contemplating fleeing to Switzerland in order to avoid the retrial.

"Switzerland would hardly be a good country to flee to, it's not Brazil," he reportedly told a friend, pointing out that it was close to Italy and had an extradition treaty with Rome.

In anticipation of his Swiss venture, Mr Sollecito had donated to the university library a copy of the book he wrote about being caught up in the murder investigation.


THE TELEGRAPH
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
Mark Waterbury's a forensic specialist?


Meet another "forensic specialist" and DNA expert: Candace Dempsey. ;) Or is she just using every opportunity she gets to plug her $0.01 book?

Caitriona Palmer: I am convinced of one fact – that Amanda Knox is innocent of murder

There are few stories that I have covered so closely for the Irish Independent in recent years and my countless interviews and in-depth reporting have left me convinced of one fact: that Amanda Knox is innocent of murder.

Other observers who have spent years immersed in the case have emerged equally convinced of the Seattle native's innocence.

"I have no problem saying that Amanda Knox is innocent," Candace Dempsey, author of 'Murder in Italy: The Shocking Slaying of a British Student, the Accused American Girl and an International Scandal', told the Irish Independent.

Dempsey, who said that she was "stunned" yesterday morning to learn of the Italian court's decision, said that Knox and her then boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito's guilt had always been based on the flimsy forensic evidence offered by the Italian prosecutors.

"The appeal court found the DNA to be shoddy. That was the main thing tying her to that case," Dempsey said.


IRISH INDEPENDENT
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

capealadin wrote:
Jackie wrote:
capealadin wrote:
You forgot to mention 1st class world travellers..with a penchant for numbered ducks.....


Our phone engineer is not just first class, Cape - he "flys private" 8-)

You'd better get out here fast, Cape - if I keep losing money at this rate it's going to be McDonald's instead of "CraftSteak" for dinner tonight! LOL


:D Yeah..well..next time you'll give me advance notice..and you'll be able to rake in my winning chips..and Mickey D's will never cross your mind.

Keep an eye out...Mr. Tour D'argent may be at Craftsteak....and then it'll be an early night for you if you are within earshot. p-(((



Cape, I honestly have no idea what I'm doing - I need to be (patiently and gently) schooled by you ;-)

Last night I had hopes of turning a modest wager into a huge donation to the fund for Meredith's family but a certain dealer named Sharon ruined my plan.

What are we going to do about this???
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

h/t Stan.

http://uk.eonline.com/news/401594/amand ... of-retrial

Something about the picture is just plain off to me. Love the pants, though. Color's really catching on, it appears.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

'It will shock you to the core': Amanda Knox's autobiography to be published next month despite retrial over Meredith Kercher's murder

A book written by Amanda Knox 'will shock you the core', according to the lawyer who set up her $4m publishing deal.

Robert Barnett insisted the autobiography 'Waiting to be Heard' will still be published next month despite an Italian court ordering a re-trial for Knox.

He hinted that the book will contain major revelations that will help sway public opinion in favour of Knox.

'While people know the story of the trial, they don't know the personal story, the family's story, the prison story and, believe it or not, the legal story.'


DAILY MAIL

Why swinging public opinion is so important to him I wonder?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Preston, Waterbury, Dempsey, Barnett.

Coming next: Judge Heavey... Stay tuned.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

SomeAlibi wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Nope , but thanks for asking, Napia 5 , no way that Guede could have thrown that rock the way it is said to have been thrown from the parking area (the angles are all wrong, imo) nor could he have climbed, perched on the ledge, and manipulated the latch through the broken glass.

Btw, the monkey lawyer, s I unkindly named him after his pic appeared in Sollecito's book, was sitting in front of me in court.

The cottage gate is barred, and I wasnt going to intrude on the family that lived there.



A very good day for all concerned for Meredith and the Kerchers. I had a once-in-a-couple-of-years-rare look at the innocenti moithering away after this and it struck me once again how very, very few of them seem to understand anything about the legal process or to have taken the point that this isn't anything to do with piling on or discriminating, but it is the very highest court in the land, with a nation's most experienced judges ruling on multiple counts that Hellman was fundamentally unsafe in his process, logic and judicial handling for the appeal to stand. His ruling incompetent for the purposes of that ruling standing in law.

Nor do any of them seem to understand that there isn't double jeapordy here - an appeal is being re-run not an original trial.

Sigh. Oh well.

One thing Ergon - I'm surprised your impression was that the rock couldn't be thrown from the parking area. It is basically entirely flat to the window in question and not much of a distance. It certainly couldn't be lobbed up from where Rudy was supposed to have climbed, but the parking lot throw looked easy to me. First picture below, I took on my visit. 2nd picture shows the top down.k
http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/im ... w=no_count
http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/im ... w=no_count

Also see http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/im ... wnw._count
http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/im ... w=no_count
Now the angle of the shutters etc and the climb - a very different matter.


Hi, Somealibi
Your photos didnt open for me, will try again when I get home next week. Will also post my photos. T bad I couldn't get to the parking space, dont think there has been a shot from the outside at that distance.
I din't think the distance was a problem for that throw. More that as the corner of the area aligns just past the window, whoever threw the rock would have to be left handed to hit the right side of the window. Rudy Guede is right handed, so the rock, if he was the thrower, would have hit the middle of the window or the left.
I tried to get Filomena Romanelli's number to interview her, but she wasn't in the directory. Anyhow, next time :)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Preston, Waterbury, Dempsey.

Coming next: Judge Heavey... Stay tuned.


Not that anyone else has asked the judge why he sent thousands of dollars to Frank Sfarzo.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Amanda Knox Told To Stay Away From Retrial (video)
By Greg Milam, in Seattle

An American judge who campaigned for the release of Amanda Knox has told Sky News she "may" return to Italy to face renewed proceedings - but that he would recommend she stay away.

Michael Heavey, a Superior Court judge in Knox's home state of Washington, says he is disappointed but not surprised that the Italian Supreme Court has ordered a retrial for her and former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito.

Judge Heavey, who attracted criticism for writing to the Italian authorities about the case while still serving in his role in the US, says he remains convinced the couple are innocent and that the prosecution case is flawed.

When asked if Knox might return to Italy for any part of the new proceedings, he said: "She may. The intelligentsia of Italy knows she is absolutely innocent.

"But a good proportion of the population, because of what's called confirmation bias, what they've been told so many times, they can't tell you why, but they think she's guilty and that is not a healthy climate for her to be in."


SKY NEWS

The intelligentsia of Italy knows she is absolutely innocent??? That's new to me.

Attachment:
Judge Heavey speaking to reporter.JPG


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox Told To Stay Away From Retrial (video)
By Greg Milam, in Seattle

An American judge who campaigned for the release of Amanda Knox has told Sky News she "may" return to Italy to face renewed proceedings - but that he would recommend she stay away.

Michael Heavey, a Superior Court judge in Knox's home state of Washington, says he is disappointed but not surprised that the Italian Supreme Court has ordered a retrial for her and former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito.

Judge Heavey, who attracted criticism for writing to the Italian authorities about the case while still serving in his role in the US, says he remains convinced the couple are innocent and that the prosecution case is flawed.

When asked if Knox might return to Italy for any part of the new proceedings, he said: "She may. The intelligentsia of Italy knows she is absolutely innocent.

"But a good proportion of the population, because of what's called confirmation bias, what they've been told so many times, they can't tell you why, but they think she's guilty and that is not a healthy climate for her to be in."


SKY NEWS

The intelligentsia of Italy knows she is absolutely innocent??? That's new to me.


How in the world can he possibly know this? "They can't tell you why." Has he interviewed many Italians?
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

This article paraphrases Dalla Vedova on the topic of double jeopardy:

Quote:
Dalla Vedova said the high court's decision does not raise a double jeopardy problem because the retrial would not be a new case but rather a continuation of the same case on appeal.


So again there are differences in what Knox's legal team is saying and what the FOA bobble-heads are saying.


Also, according to this UW law professor, raising the double jeopardy issue to avoid extradition is not terribly successful:

Quote:
Other defendants who have been acquitted in other countries and then convicted on appeal have attempted to raise the double jeopardy principle to avoid extradition, without much success, said Mary Fan, a law professor at the University of Washington who specializes in cross-border criminal law.

The text of the treaty prevents extradition if the person has already been convicted or acquitted of the same offense by the "requested" country, which would be the United States in Knox's case because Italy would be requesting extradition from the United States. Because Knox was never prosecuted or acquitted for homicide in the United States, the treaty's double-jeopardy provision would not prevent Knox's extradition, said Fan.

While the issue is rare in the United States, several courts have rejected the double jeopardy argument in similar cases. In 2010, a federal court in California found that a man who was acquitted of murder in Mexico and later convicted after prosecutors appealed the acquittal, could not claim double jeopardy to avoid extradition to Mexico. That court cited a 1974 decision from the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, that reached the same conclusion with respect to Canadian law, which also allows the government to appeal an acquittal.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/03/2 ... 1620130327
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox Told To Stay Away From Retrial (video)
By Greg Milam, in Seattle

An American judge who campaigned for the release of Amanda Knox has told Sky News she "may" return to Italy to face renewed proceedings - but that he would recommend she stay away.

Michael Heavey, a Superior Court judge in Knox's home state of Washington, says he is disappointed but not surprised that the Italian Supreme Court has ordered a retrial for her and former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito.

Judge Heavey, who attracted criticism for writing to the Italian authorities about the case while still serving in his role in the US, says he remains convinced the couple are innocent and that the prosecution case is flawed.

When asked if Knox might return to Italy for any part of the new proceedings, he said: "She may. The intelligentsia of Italy knows she is absolutely innocent.

"But a good proportion of the population, because of what's called confirmation bias, what they've been told so many times, they can't tell you why, but they think she's guilty and that is not a healthy climate for her to be in."


SKY NEWS

The intelligentsia of Italy knows she is absolutely innocent??? That's new to me.

Attachment:
Judge Heavey speaking to reporter.JPG


Are the learned Justices of the Supreme Court of Italy not members of the "intelligentsia"?!

Is Heavey "okay"?!


Last edited by Jackie on Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Raffaele Sollecito, seen for the first time since Italy's top court ordered a retrial in Meredith Kercher's murder case, refuses to comment and asks reporters to leave him alone (short video)

http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/2013/03/27/2026677/
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jackie wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox Told To Stay Away From Retrial (video)
By Greg Milam, in Seattle

An American judge who campaigned for the release of Amanda Knox has told Sky News she "may" return to Italy to face renewed proceedings - but that he would recommend she stay away.

Michael Heavey, a Superior Court judge in Knox's home state of Washington, says he is disappointed but not surprised that the Italian Supreme Court has ordered a retrial for her and former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito.

Judge Heavey, who attracted criticism for writing to the Italian authorities about the case while still serving in his role in the US, says he remains convinced the couple are innocent and that the prosecution case is flawed.

When asked if Knox might return to Italy for any part of the new proceedings, he said: "She may. The intelligentsia of Italy knows she is absolutely innocent.

"But a good proportion of the population, because of what's called confirmation bias, what they've been told so many times, they can't tell you why, but they think she's guilty and that is not a healthy climate for her to be in."


SKY NEWS

The intelligentsia of Italy knows she is absolutely innocent??? That's new to me.

Attachment:
Judge Heavey speaking to reporter.JPG


Are the learned Justices of the Supreme Court of Italy not members of the "inteligentsia"?!

Is Heavey "okay"?!


Sounds like they all need a hug and a huddle. Few of their talking points remain. I'm really going to miss the point on how she was interrogated and tortured for over fifty hours with no food, water, or bathroom breaks, but I think they have to drop that now that she's guilty of aggravated calunnia. DENVER (that conspiracy nut on Ground Report) once claimed she wet herself during that long interrogation (reminds me of scene from the exorcist), maybe that's one of the BOMBSHELLS Bob Barnett was talking about when he said her book will 'Shock You to the Core'.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jackie,
Would Knox's refusal to personally attend the appeal when there is no requirement for her to personally attend, and where she's represented by counsel, be considered 'being tried in abstenia' in today's world?

(When Camp Knox announced Knox would attend her parent's slander trial a year or so ago, they quickly backtracked and that she would be making her appearance via a video feed which the courts allowed.)
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Raffaele Sollecito, seen for the first time since Italy's top court ordered a retrial in Meredith Kercher's murder case, refuses to comment and asks reporters to leave him alone (short video)

http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/2013/03/27/2026677/


It's hard for him to conceal his love of attention despite his request to leave him alone.
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Offline Emerald


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

No way in HELL Amanda can have a successful book release/tour without naming names and making up dramatic lies about her participation in the crime, interrogation, incarceration.

Apparently making $$$ is more important than Amanda's victim. Amanda is not the media darling she assumes. There's still a vast majority of people who do not believe in her innocence here in the US.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox Told To Stay Away From Retrial (video)
By Greg Milam, in Seattle

An American judge who campaigned for the release of Amanda Knox has told Sky News she "may" return to Italy to face renewed proceedings - but that he would recommend she stay away.

Michael Heavey, a Superior Court judge in Knox's home state of Washington, says he is disappointed but not surprised that the Italian Supreme Court has ordered a retrial for her and former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito.

Judge Heavey, who attracted criticism for writing to the Italian authorities about the case while still serving in his role in the US, says he remains convinced the couple are innocent and that the prosecution case is flawed.

When asked if Knox might return to Italy for any part of the new proceedings, he said: "She may. The intelligentsia of Italy knows she is absolutely innocent.

"But a good proportion of the population, because of what's called confirmation bias, what they've been told so many times, they can't tell you why, but they think she's guilty and that is not a healthy climate for her to be in."


SKY NEWS

The intelligentsia of Italy knows she is absolutely innocent??? That's new to me.

Attachment:
Judge Heavey speaking to reporter.JPG



This is not a face or posture that inspires confidence. ss-) I'm sure a body language expert would have a field day.. ( re: Photo above of Heavey thinking he's sitting on the loo )

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Last edited by capealadin on Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jackie wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Jackie wrote:
capealadin wrote:
You forgot to mention 1st class world travellers..with a penchant for numbered ducks.....


Our phone engineer is not just first class, Cape - he "flys private" 8-)

You'd better get out here fast, Cape - if I keep losing money at this rate it's going to be McDonald's instead of "CraftSteak" for dinner tonight! LOL


:D Yeah..well..next time you'll give me advance notice..and you'll be able to rake in my winning chips..and Mickey D's will never cross your mind.

Keep an eye out...Mr. Tour D'argent may be at Craftsteak....and then it'll be an early night for you if you are within earshot. p-(((



Cape, I honestly have no idea what I'm doing - I need to be (patiently and gently) schooled by you ;-)

Last night I had hopes of turning a modest wager into a huge donation to the fund for Meredith's family but a certain dealer named Sharon ruined my plan.

What are we going to do about this???


For starters...I'm going to have a SERIOUS chat with Sharon..it can NEVER happen again :)

( I'd prolly have to see how you play. Was it BJ? ( these initials are for THE GAME) ;)

LOL at the * Is Heavey * Okay *?

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

More opinion and analysis from experts and pseudo-experts on extradition and length of the process. Knox should brace herself for a long legal battle; it could take years and therefore result in tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees.

Quote:
CONAN: And would any precedent be set in this case?
BLAKESLEY: Well, possibly. I mean, if it ended up going to an attempt to block the extradition, and a refusal of that, and then an attempt at habeas corpus after that, there could be several stages of appeal or of habeas corpus here in the U.S., in addition to whatever would happen afterwards in Italy.
CONAN: We'll get to that in just a minute. We're talking with Chris Blakesley. And Chris is a law professor at the University of Nevada at Las Vegas. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION, from NPR News. All right, take us through that a little more carefully. Who would be filling a writ of habeas corpus, a demand to produce the body?
BLAKESLEY: Right. Well, the - her attorneys in the United States, if it were - if their attempt to block extradition failed, then they would file a writ of habeas corpus to argue that it was inappropriate to take her body and send it back over to Italy for prosecution, and that would raise all of the potential issue of due process, et cetera. Then if that were refused, there could be an appeal of that, and so on.
CONAN: It sounds like this is not going to be decided quickly, even if the Italian courts decide quickly.
BLAKESLEY: I think that's right. I don't think either set of courts will decide it so quickly.
CONAN: There is also a question - and again, this is not something any lawyer, any representative could conceivably recommend - but might Amanda Knox take up, I don't know, farming in Uruguay?
BLAKESLEY: I doubt it. I mean, it doesn't seem like she should. If she goes to a place that has relations - legal relations, extradition treaty with Italy, she risks their sending her back to Italy for the sentence.

---------------------------------------------------
If there's one thing that grates on me, it’s journalists interviewing other 'high-profile' journalists to garner their 'expert' opinions on legal matters. In my view, journalists that haven't been covering the first trial and the two appeals, have no special expertise, and their opinions should be given no more weight than any other unqualified observer. I applaud, of course, journalists speaking to other working journalists (such as Barbie Nadeau) to report the news from Italy. What it shouldn’t devolve into is a chitchat session between poorly qualified commentators.

Olga Khazan, global editor at The Atlantic, seems ill-informed on the subject.

Italian Law, Extradition And Amanda Knox

TALK OF THE NATION
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Offline Earthling


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

capealadin wrote:
Ava wrote:
Yes!!


If nothing else..The Kerchers shine a light on what class REALLY is. Heartbreaking...they've been ignored. Why don't people realize it takes real strength to keep quiet?

Yes!!!! So true... and thanks for the kind words yesterday, Capealadin. Nice to be back among you all under such wonderful circumstances.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Douglas Preston has written an opinion column for the USA Today. Can't believe he is still going on and on about attempts by the prosecution to "save face."

Knox victim of Italy's messy criminal system
by Douglas Preston

So what's going on with this latest Knox verdict? It is essentially a prosecutorial face-saving effort.


USA TODAY

Aslo published in TUSCON CITIZEN


Preston's suggestion about face saving makes no sense.

Face-saving? And Hellman? What will be the next judicial move for him to "save face"? Presumably everyone gets to save face, not just a couple of prosecutors. Does the verdict have to be a confirmation of guilt for the proseuctors to save face? How would a successful appeal result in the prosecutors saving face?
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Earthling wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Ava wrote:
Yes!!


If nothing else..The Kerchers shine a light on what class REALLY is. Heartbreaking...they've been ignored. Why don't people realize it takes real strength to keep quiet?

Yes!!!! So true... and thanks for the kind words yesterday, Capealadin. Nice to be back among you all under such wonderful circumstances.


Welcome, Hon. And, it is wonderful. Because now the hope is there that it will be the right outcome without the shenanigans and *bullshits* of the PR contingent.

The Italians have seen and heard from the Knox/Mellas and cohorts. They may have had some success the first time round..but now..it's just going to be ennui.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Amanda Knox International Coverage: Retrial Ruling Garners Headlines Around The World
By Carlo Davis

Around Europe, newspaper coverage of the court’s reversal suggested a renewed suspicion of the young woman. German tabloid Bild, for example, led with the headline “Has Amanda Knox Lied To Us All?”

Several European outlets also made note of the court's decision to uphold Knox's defamation conviction for initially accusing Congolese bar owner Patrick Lumumba of the murder. Pablo Ordaz writes in Spain’s largest newspaper El Pais that "this conviction overshadows the portrait painted by the U.S. media of its beautiful fellow: a poor innocent girl caught in the net of Italian’s slow and sloppy judicial system."


HUFFINGTON POST
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
h/t Stan.

http://uk.eonline.com/news/401594/amand ... of-retrial

Something about the picture is just plain off to me. Love the pants, though. Color's really catching on, it appears.


The one who looks REALLY shocked is Maddie :(

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Emerald wrote:
No way in HELL Amanda can have a successful book release/tour without naming names and making up dramatic lies about her participation in the crime, interrogation, incarceration.

Apparently making $$$ is more important than Amanda's victim. Amanda is not the media darling she assumes. There's still a vast majority of people who do not believe in her innocence here in the US.


I'm sure that she will tell her very sad tale of becoming a hardened criminal after four years in prison. I don't think anyone really cares. We all know that prison is meant to be a hard life. Still, prison in Italy was not all that hard for her. She had evening dance parties, wrote songs for the boy bands that visited prison, acted in theatre, wrote stories for writing competitions, met with her religious advisors and political friends. She had it soft compared to prison life in the US.

I suppose the whole thing will start with the first breath of air she took in Seattle ... home free. We'll hear all about the supportive people. Then, maybe she'll flashback to meeting Raffaele ... start with the puppy love infatuation she was struck with at the music concert ... so driven to be with this complete stranger named Sollecito that she pretty much went home and jumped in the sack with him. They stayed there for about 10 days. They emerged with shared temporary amnesia and then Meredith was murdered ... that chapter will be about reading, having sex, eating, having sex, sleeping, washing behind ears, getting stoned, getting drunk, being excluded from all the Perugia halloween parties, deciding to party the following night ... by reading, eating, sleeping, getting stoned, turning off their phones for the first time ever for both of them, not using the computers, having fake water leaks, really stretching the times, suddenly cancel an out of town day trip, take a shower in a room with unexplained blood knowing that the front door was left open and no one was home, walk around Perugia with a broom and so on.

I think we all know her story by now. I wonder if she'll include the part about all her hair falling out.

Furthermore, given the whopper lies this woman has told, can anyone believe anything she says?


Last edited by Jester on Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

capealadin wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
h/t Stan.

http://uk.eonline.com/news/401594/amand ... of-retrial

Something about the picture is just plain off to me. Love the pants, though. Color's really catching on, it appears.


The one who looks REALLY shocked is Maddie :(


She almost looks scared shitless, if you'll pardon the expression.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Apologies if this was posted before,

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/27/opini ... inion&_r=0

Opinion piece in the NYT about how Hellman failed the math.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Greg was "shocked" --> :shock:

Idaho DNA Expert Shocked That Amanda Knox Faces A New Trial
By Samantha Wright

The Boise State professor and director of the Idaho Innocence Project says he was surprised and disappointed when he heard the verdict. “I was sick to my stomach. We were listening, actually just sitting up in bed with the Italian TV on the internet and then CNN up and a feed from her family and really hoped it would be over, that they would uphold her release and I think we were all really shocked.”


Interview on BOISE STATE PUBLIC RADIO
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
She almost looks scared shitless, if you'll pardon the expression.


It seems to be a night shot, like maybe someone jumped out from behind the bushes with a flash.
Startled

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Amanda Knox—Tabloid Sensation, Global Legal Bellwether
By Alan Dershowitz

Transnational law and the convicted, acquitted, now un-acquitted defendant.

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Greg was "shocked" --> :shock:

Idaho DNA Expert Shocked That Amanda Knox Faces A New Trial
By Samantha Wright

The Boise State professor and director of the Idaho Innocence Project says he was surprised and disappointed when he heard the verdict. “I was sick to my stomach. We were listening, actually just sitting up in bed with the Italian TV on the internet and then CNN up and a feed from her family and really hoped it would be over, that they would uphold her release and I think we were all really shocked.”


Interview on BOISE STATE PUBLIC RADIO


Is that the Innocence Project? They probably have all sorts of "DNA Expert" research papers to release based on the appeal being successful. Since it has been reversed ... not good for business.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi, Jester. Startled. Perhaps that's it. Maybe she wasn't in the best frame of mind to have her picture taken.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Last link for tonight to a bunch of videos/phone interviews (in Italian) in

LA REPUBBLICA
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox—Tabloid Sensation, Global Legal Bellwether
By Alan Dershowitz

Transnational law and the convicted, acquitted, now un-acquitted defendant.

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL


I like his description of the case:

"The factors behind the initial conviction included an admission by Ms. Knox that she was at the crime scene in the northern Italian town of Perugia, plus her false accusation that a bartender had slit Kercher's throat. The case against her also included a questionable alibi and evidence of her DNA on the alleged murder weapon. In a bizarre ruling, the trial court held that Ms. Knox's admission could not be used against her, but that her false accusation could form the basis of a separate crime that the Italians call "calumny." The appeals court then threw out the DNA evidence (for technical forensic reasons) and acquitted Ms. Knox of the murder charges." ~ Dershowitz
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Hi, Jester. Startled. Perhaps that's it. Maybe she wasn't in the best frame of mind to have her picture taken.


Maybe someone was hammered and needed a little help getting to the car? Something is weird when you're carrying an extra coat, but have someone put you in a headlock rather than put your coat between you and the camera?
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I didn't get the impression that the Diane Sawyer interview was going to be hard-hitting to begin with, but I guess with the current SC ruling, Sawyer will find herself even more limited to what she can ask.
Maybe Sawyer will have to settle for learning the steps to the bathmat boogie.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jester wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Hi, Jester. Startled. Perhaps that's it. Maybe she wasn't in the best frame of mind to have her picture taken.


Maybe someone was hammered and needed a little help getting to the car? Something is weird when you're carrying an extra coat, but have someone put you in a headlock rather than put your coat between you and the camera?


That's it! Something weird. Something off. MaxiPax looks like she is going to give her a noogie or something.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox International Coverage: Retrial Ruling Garners Headlines Around The World
By Carlo Davis

Around Europe, newspaper coverage of the court’s reversal suggested a renewed suspicion of the young woman. German tabloid Bild, for example, led with the headline “Has Amanda Knox Lied To Us All?”

Several European outlets also made note of the court's decision to uphold Knox's defamation conviction for initially accusing Congolese bar owner Patrick Lumumba of the murder. Pablo Ordaz writes in Spain’s largest newspaper El Pais that "this conviction overshadows the portrait painted by the U.S. media of its beautiful fellow: a poor innocent girl caught in the net of Italian’s slow and sloppy judicial system."


HUFFINGTON POST




Last edited by Jester on Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
I didn't get the impression that the Diane Sawyer interview was going to be hard-hitting to begin with, but I guess with the current SC ruling, Sawyer will find herself even more limited to what she can ask.
Maybe Sawyer will have to settle for learning the steps to the bathmat boogie.



Well, I thought..it CAN'T Be Manders. nw) After all, just a short time before..she was talking about * Holding her head up high *... wh-)

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jester wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox International Coverage: Retrial Ruling Garners Headlines Around The World
By Carlo Davis

Around Europe, newspaper coverage of the court’s reversal suggested a renewed suspicion of the young woman. German tabloid Bild, for example, led with the headline “Has Amanda Knox Lied To Us All?”

Several European outlets also made note of the court's decision to uphold Knox's defamation conviction for initially accusing Congolese bar owner Patrick Lumumba of the murder. Pablo Ordaz writes in Spain’s largest newspaper El Pais that "this conviction overshadows the portrait painted by the U.S. media of its beautiful fellow: a poor innocent girl caught in the net of Italian’s slow and sloppy judicial system."


HUFFINGTON POST




a) YES
b) NO
C) NO

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Loving your work, Jester. Brill.

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Jester wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Hi, Jester. Startled. Perhaps that's it. Maybe she wasn't in the best frame of mind to have her picture taken.


Maybe someone was hammered and needed a little help getting to the car? Something is weird when you're carrying an extra coat, but have someone put you in a headlock rather than put your coat between you and the camera?


That's it! Something weird. Something off. MaxiPax looks like she is going to give her a noogie or something.


Headlock or roogie, it appears to be a very unusual friendship. Seriously weird. It looks like a night shot and they're walking along a tall fence. Presumably they have decided that Knox should not be seen. If Knox really wanted to be protected and unseen, why wasn't she walking on the "inside", along the fence?

This was with Knox at the time of her arrest ... not sure what she was thinking when she drew this.

Image
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

capealadin wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
I didn't get the impression that the Diane Sawyer interview was going to be hard-hitting to begin with, but I guess with the current SC ruling, Sawyer will find herself even more limited to what she can ask.
Maybe Sawyer will have to settle for learning the steps to the bathmat boogie.



Well, I thought..it CAN'T Be Manders. nw) After all, just a short time before..she was talking about * Holding her head up high *... wh-)


HaHa. good one. Maybe she needs help holding it up.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Amanda Knox and Rafaelle Sollecito's lawyers give their reactions to retrial

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Maybe someone else wants to do the French review

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jester wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Jester wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Hi, Jester. Startled. Perhaps that's it. Maybe she wasn't in the best frame of mind to have her picture taken.


Maybe someone was hammered and needed a little help getting to the car? Something is weird when you're carrying an extra coat, but have someone put you in a headlock rather than put your coat between you and the camera?


That's it! Something weird. Something off. MaxiPax looks like she is going to give her a noogie or something.


Headlock or roogie, it appears to be a very unusual friendship. Seriously weird. It looks like a night shot and they're walking along a tall fence. Presumably they have decided that Knox should not be seen. If Knox really wanted to be protected and unseen, why wasn't she walking on the "inside", along the fence?

This was with Knox at the time of her arrest ... not sure what she was thinking when she drew this.

Image


There's a fair amount of candid shots out there since her release. None of them have her face shielded. Seems a bit late to start now.

I have never seen this drawing before. Weird. Must be an older drawing. She couldn't have done it the week of the murder since she was busy being interrogated for 54 hours.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Thanks for capturing all of these links, Guermantes. I've been googling non-stop and missed half of these.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Here's the Dutch headline

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Around the world with Knox:

Overturned, painful and unfair, Foxy Knoxy strikes again, victim with murderer behind bars, annulment, the appeal is cancelled











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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

And here we have Sollecito's reaction to the good news

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jester wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox International Coverage: Retrial Ruling Garners Headlines Around The World
By Carlo Davis

Around Europe, newspaper coverage of the court’s reversal suggested a renewed suspicion of the young woman. German tabloid Bild, for example, led with the headline “Has Amanda Knox Lied To Us All?”

Several European outlets also made note of the court's decision to uphold Knox's defamation conviction for initially accusing Congolese bar owner Patrick Lumumba of the murder. Pablo Ordaz writes in Spain’s largest newspaper El Pais that "this conviction overshadows the portrait painted by the U.S. media of its beautiful fellow: a poor innocent girl caught in the net of Italian’s slow and sloppy judicial system."


HUFFINGTON POST





Actually, if you don't mind, it's: "does her book have to be rewritten now" and "will she ever be allowed to leave the US again"?
I like your translation better though :)
The French version is pretty neutral: "towards a new trial for AK in Italy".
**
thanks for all the links, guermantes! :)
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jester, great to see you!!! :) :) :)

I can't believe you thought you were locked out, you should have emailed me :( Anyway, you're back now :)

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Italian appellate judge stands by acquittal of Knox, says no evidence of her guilt
AP Updated: Thursday, March 28, 3:15 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eur ... story.html

"MILAN — The Italian presiding appellate judge who acquitted American student Amanda Knox in the murder of her British roommate says he remains certain there is no evidence of her guilt.
Now retired, Judge Pratillo Hellmann was quoted Thursday by Italian newspapers as saying the only evidence that tied Knox and co-defendant Raffaele Sollecito to the crime was refuted by new expert testimony entered on appeal.
...
Hellmann said he would draw the same conclusion again “without a doubt.” "
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

That's easy for him to say...when he insists on looking at only three items of evidence and completely ignoring all the rest!!!

Here, Hellmann emphasises why he should not be a judge and never judge a criminal case ever again!

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi, Michael. Good to see you!
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
That's easy for him to say...when he insists on looking at only three items of evidence and completely ignoring all the rest!!!

Here, Hellmann emphasises why he should not be a judge and never judge a criminal case ever again!


Yes, and what else should he say without losing face? No surprise here.
It'd be so interesting to know what really happened at the appeal, and before...
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi Ava, thanks to you too for all the news updates. There's so much news that passes by that it's impossible to track it all. The other day, I was thinking about Hellmann and wondering what his reaction was to the SC decision to throw out the acquittals by his court. Now we know. Perhaps it's all for the best, that he has retired, I mean.

Do you remember the RI film producer that withdrew his offer to buy movie rights to Knox's life story?

Rhode Island Producer Chad A. Verdi Comments on Prior $1M Offer for Life Rights to the Amanda Knox Story and his Decision to Withdraw

“What I thought was going to transpire is now a reality” = C Verdi

Verdi and Kraft, who specialize in comeback stories, reached out to Ms. Knox in 2011, once they heard that she had been acquitted. "We had hoped the offer would have been accepted and that filming would have begun as early as January 2013," stated Mr. Verdi, who is the President and CEO of Verdi Productions. "My attorney contacted Theodore Simon, Ms. Knox's U.S. counsel at the time."

Mr. Verdi, had stated, "after reviewing all the information we had involving the Knox case, we have decided it was not the inspirational feel good story that VP was looking for and we withdrew our offer."

Verdi added, "we were of the opinion that the Italian government thought Amanda Knox was more involved than what she had stated and that she would be retried at some point. Now we know we were correct and we are very happy with our decision. It was not the story we were looking for."


INVESTOR IDEAS
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Here is Olga Khazan in the Atlantic, completely ignorant of the facts of the case, citing Nathaniel Rich's Rolling Stone article as a source. :roll:

Amanda Knox and Italy's 'Carnivalesque' Justice System

THE ATLANTIC
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Today's Seattle Times Editorial

Italy should be denied a third shot at Amanda Knox

If Italy seeks to extradite Seattle’s Amanda Knox to face a third trial in the murder of Meredith Kercher, the U.S. government should look closely at the sad, bizarre case and deny the request.


SEATTLE TIMES
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Someone jokes on Twitter:

The DM Reporter ‏@DMReporter 4h

Quote:
RELIGION: Italian Police invite Amanda Knox to have her feet washed by Pope Francis in Rome, as part of ‘Operation HoneyTrap’.


:)
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ava wrote:
Jester wrote:
Actually, if you don't mind, it's: "does her book have to be rewritten now" and "will she ever be allowed to leave the US again"?
I like your translation better though :)
The French version is pretty neutral: "towards a new trial for AK in Italy".
**
thanks for all the links, guermantes! :)


Thank you ... I suppose I should fix it ... I'm learning.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
Jester, great to see you!!! :) :) :)

I can't believe you thought you were locked out, you should have emailed me :( Anyway, you're back now :)


Thanks Michael ... lost and found.
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Offline Itchy Brother


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
It seems that the rumors are true: Sollecito was planning to move to Switzerland.

Amanda Knox's former boyfriend planned new life in Switzerland
By Nick Squires

[. . .]

Mr Sollecito, whose 29th birthday celebrations on Tuesday were ruined by the supreme court's decision, denied suggestions that he was still contemplating fleeing to Switzerland in order to avoid the retrial.

"Switzerland would hardly be a good country to flee to, it's not Brazil," he reportedly told a friend, pointing out that it was close to Italy and had an extradition treaty with Rome.

THE TELEGRAPH


So Biff has been researching which countries would be a good destination for a fugitive?

Thanks for the coverage guermantes.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I just saw the photo with Knox with boyfriend. The one with her wearing glasses.

I thought at first..that it was MADISON !!

You're right itchy. Raf makes it obvious he was looking at extradition.

Mussolini and his mistress Carla..were fleeing to LUGANO..when caught and killed. Not that I'm comparing Raf to Il Duce..just found it interesting.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Pictures of Sollecito in MAIL ONLINE

(We have seen him in the video already.)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

How ironic is that?! "Raffaele Sollecito was planning to start a business involving unsolved criminal cases."

Sollecito, Amanda Knox co-accused, had planned to move to Switzerland before Kercher retrial
By James Bone

Raffaele Sollecito had made plans to move to Switzerland and start a management agency for people involved in high-profile criminal cases before he was ordered to stand trial again in Italy for the murder of the British student Meredith Kercher.
...
The residency application was made in December and granted in January.


Full TIMES ONLINE article is behind a paywall, unfortunately.

As is this story: The waiting game: Amanda Knox’s new life
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I've now read that he was going to start up some sort of computer business, that he is studying the cleaning of medical instruments, that he is studying computers, now he's going to start an investigation company. It seems more like disinformation than information.

"He is now studying in Verona and they have always insisted they are innocent of Leeds University student Meredith's murder. She had only been in Italy for two months before she was killed having arrived from Coulsdon for a year long course as part of her degree.

His father Francesco said: 'He is working hard on his studies. He's working on a project involving the movement of surgical instruments during operations. He is calm and serene even if we are all in a state of apprehension.'"

March 24, 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z2OrklISlq


Last edited by Jester on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I am still trying to get used to all that double jeopardy talk. What happened with the 'no evidence' talk and the appeal court will definitely acquit them? The SC decision must have hit hard, or maybe people now realize that there is a bunch of evidence after all?
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Itchy Brother wrote:
guermantes wrote:
It seems that the rumors are true: Sollecito was planning to move to Switzerland.

Amanda Knox's former boyfriend planned new life in Switzerland
By Nick Squires

[. . .]

Mr Sollecito, whose 29th birthday celebrations on Tuesday were ruined by the supreme court's decision, denied suggestions that he was still contemplating fleeing to Switzerland in order to avoid the retrial.

"Switzerland would hardly be a good country to flee to, it's not Brazil," he reportedly told a friend, pointing out that it was close to Italy and had an extradition treaty with Rome.

THE TELEGRAPH


So Biff has been researching which countries would be a good destination for a fugitive?

Thanks for the coverage guermantes.


Or maybe he's reading pmf.org. They've discussed it there, iirc.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Hi Ava, thanks to you too for all the news updates. There's so much news that passes by that it's impossible to track it all. The other day, I was thinking about Hellmann and wondering what his reaction was to the SC decision to throw out the acquittals by his court. Now we know. Perhaps it's all for the best, that he has retired, I mean.

Do you remember the RI film producer that withdrew his offer to buy movie rights to Knox's life story?

Rhode Island Producer Chad A. Verdi Comments on Prior $1M Offer for Life Rights to the Amanda Knox Story and his Decision to Withdraw

“What I thought was going to transpire is now a reality” = C Verdi

Verdi and Kraft, who specialize in comeback stories, reached out to Ms. Knox in 2011, once they heard that she had been acquitted. "We had hoped the offer would have been accepted and that filming would have begun as early as January 2013," stated Mr. Verdi, who is the President and CEO of Verdi Productions. "My attorney contacted Theodore Simon, Ms. Knox's U.S. counsel at the time."

Mr. Verdi, had stated, "after reviewing all the information we had involving the Knox case, we have decided it was not the inspirational feel good story that VP was looking for and we withdrew our offer."

Verdi added, "we were of the opinion that the Italian government thought Amanda Knox was more involved than what she had stated and that she would be retried at some point. Now we know we were correct and we are very happy with our decision. It was not the story we were looking for."


INVESTOR IDEAS


Very interesting, guermantes, thanks. I do remember, but I've never read anywhere about his withdrawal, I think.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
I am still trying to get used to all that double jeopardy talk. What happened with the 'no evidence' talk and the appeal court will definitely acquit them? The SC decision must have hit hard, or maybe people now realize that there is a bunch of evidence after all?


It sure is amazing to read some of this, max. How quickly the focus, the priority, the morality changes.

What I want to know: What about poor Raffaele in the 'it's over, she'll never go back' scenario? Remember him? He's the one who just wrote the book about his ordeal, about how he sat in a prison cell for 4 years because he wouldn't throw his newly acquired main squeeze under the bus to save himself. What a saint, what an honorable young man.
Yeah, right. Now what? There's nary a comment about the again forgotten man, as the new mantra seems to be, "Hell, no, she won't go."

Not even to stand beside her white knight? Nobody is even suggesting anywhere that Raffaele must be in-freakin-furiated over his back seat again. If found guilty, do the 4 years he served go towards his punishment? There isn't much mention of his legal status, as the focus is, of course, Knox. One would think he'd be overly tired of this position by now, and it can't be making him feel any better to be reading all of the articles about her.

As the story goes, he was Honor Bound to stand up for her. Doesn't she owe him some of the same?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
I am still trying to get used to all that double jeopardy talk. What happened with the 'no evidence' talk and the appeal court will definitely acquit them? The SC decision must have hit hard, or maybe people now realize that there is a bunch of evidence after all?



The double jeopardy talk is the same as "the knife has been thrown out by the court". There is no double jeopardy issue, even experts have already conceded that.

Again, they hope for a public outcry with the hope she gets a sympathy vote. I believe Amanda Knox will be extradited should Italy request it after the confirmation of her conviction for the murder of Meredith Kercher.

Has anyone noticed how many people were following the newest developments in the case when the Supreme Court was about to publish its decision? On Bruce Fischer's forum were only around 45 users online. On TJMK alone were more than 300. Again, it puts into perspective which side the public leans to.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I also remember a good debate about a possible extradition on the Marquette University Law Blog.

I have earlier posted comments made from that blog in chronological order (ignoring the FOA spammers): Click. Ergon also posted a copy of the Extradition treaty between the U.S. and Italy.

Knox groupies claim that Italy will have to provide evidence that Amanda Knox is guilty of the crime and due to U.S. "higher standards" there is no chance of a possible extradition. This is nonsense. Just because the evidence hasn't been properly reported in the media and her direct family dismisses all pieces of evidence as insignificant doesn't mean they don't exist or exonerate her. Quite to the contrary.

True Justice for Meredith Kercher has published Alan Dershowtiz's opinion about the U.S. media coverage: 12 Tips For Reporters For Coming To Grips With The Hard Facts Of This Controversial And Complex Case.

Here is another article by Alan Dershowitz regarding transnational law which is interesting to read:

Quote:
Ms. Knox's own Italian lawyer has acknowledged that her appellate "acquittal" wouldn't constitute double jeopardy under Italian law since it wasn't a final judgment—it was subject to further appeal, which has now resulted in a reversal of the acquittal. This argument will probably carry considerable weight with U.S. authorities, likely yielding the conclusion that her extradition wouldn't violate the treaty. Still, a sympathetic U.S. State Department or judge might find that her appellate acquittal was final enough to preclude extradition on double-jeopardy grounds.

Italian courts could probably have avoided this complexity by requiring Ms. Knox to remain in Italy, perhaps subject to house arrest, until the completion of the appeals process. Instead, Italian authorities allowed her to return to the U.S.

[...]

The family of the victim may file suit against Ms. Knox, especially in light of the large advance she reportedly received for her book. There is no double-jeopardy bar to such a civil suit, which could be brought in the U.S. (where the money i s), in Italy (where the crime was committed) or in England (where the victim's family lives and where the book will also be sold). All that is required for a civil suit to succeed is proof by a preponderance of the evidence, and American or British courts may well admit evidence in a civil case that the Italian courts excluded in the criminal one.

Over the next several years, then, we will likely see a major demonstration of transnational law—that is, law applied by the domestic legal system of one nation against citizens of other nations. Each of the three countries involved in this case will seek to do justice by applying its own distinct rules to litigants and victims from different countries.



On a different note: Searching for Alan Dershowitz I found an article published in the Telegraph, dated from 2009, that claims that the Friends of Amanda have raised more than 100,000 $ for the cause of Amanda Knox.

Quote:
The group has not only raised more than $100,000 towards the Knox family's reported $1 million travel and legal fees, but provided at least 10 scientists who volunteered to pick holes in the prosecution forensic evidence.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Catnip published a translation of the Court's decision on .org (original post can be found here). The original post is longer, I have copied only the translation:

Quote:
Post by Catnip » 29 Mar 2013, 05:39

To round out Yummi’s response (XXXI.21 (Post 129221, on 27 March 2013), here is a document translation.

It appears to be a database printout.

SCC Disposition 2013
Dates are in the standard dd/mm/yyyy format. The disposition itself was originally printed in upper case, but is rendered here as normal case for ease of reading.


Translation starts:

==============

SUPREME COURT OF CASSATION
NOTIFICATION OFFICE FOR CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS
Overview
Printed 26/03/2013

Appeal Number: 20288-2012 Origination Date: 15/05/2012
Appeal Classification: ORDINARY APPEAL
Inscription Date: 16/05/2012 Prescription Date:
Parties: Prosecutor-General, in re KNOX AMANDA MARIE +1 Born on: 09/07/1987 at: SEATTLE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Seat: FIRST DIVISION
Offence Section: S1

MATERIALS
VOLUMES: 1 FILES: 5

Provision Type: DECISION Case Number: 10-2010 Date: 03/10/2011
Provision Level: 2nd GRADE Office: Appeal Assize Court Location: PERUGIA

Offence: Criminal Code 575 on 01/11/2007
Other Offence: Statute 110 of 1975 on 01/11/2007
Other Offence: Criminal Code 368 on 05/11/2007
Other Offence: Criminal Code 609 on 01/11/2007

Division: First Division Hearing Date: 25/03/2013
Hearing Type: PUBLIC HEARING Bench: 1
Outcome: REMANDED remand from the hearing of 26.03.2013 per the decision

Division: First Division Hearing Date: 26/03/2013
Hearing Type: PUBLIC HEARING Bench: 2
Outcome: DEFINITIVE

Divisional Provision Number: 422-2013-000 Divisional Provision Type: DECISION Outcome: DEFINITIVE
Date Deposited: File Number:

Statistical Category Outcome: ANNULMENT WITH REMAND Statistical Category Outcome: REJECTED TOTALLY


Disposition: After reservation per the hearing of 26.03.2013, [the Court] thus decides: It annuls* the appealed decision as regards the offences under headings (A) (heading (C) absorbed into it), (B), (D), (E) and the aggravation under Article 61(2) Criminal Code contested in relation to heading (F) and remands it for new judgment to the Court of Appeal of the Assize Court of Florence. It rejects the appeal of Knox Amanda Marie, ordering the payment of procedural costs, as well as the reimbursement of the costs sustained in the present proceedings by the civil party Lumumba Diya, liquidated in the sum of 4000 (four thousand) euro, in addition to general costs VAT and CPA as required by law.


==============
Translation ends.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Thanks Nell. Nice to have the full text of the Supreme Court decision translated into English.

Nina Burleigh goes off on targets, taking potshots at PMF and TMJK and dissing the "haters" in her article in TIME. ff)

She sounds almost like Bruce Fischer, angry and caustic.

The Amanda Knox Haters Society: How They Learned to Hate Me Too
By Nina Burleigh

When Italy‘s highest court reversed the acquittal of Amanda Knox and ex-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito this week, a small cottage industry on the internet began grinding back into high gear. Actually it has never had a down day: the Knox-hating websites have been passing along innuendo and cherry-picked factoids for six years now.


TIME (WORLD)

(We are sooo happy to be mentioned by Jim Lovering in Comments.)
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Oh God, another feminist journalist in the Guardian slams Italian justice system. Has she just finished reading Nina Burleigh's book? They seem to have a lot in common!

Amanda Knox's retrial puts Italian justice in the dock
By Joan Smith

THE GUARDIAN
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:01 am   Post subject: STILL IN ROME   

Hi, Nell. Thanks for posting this capsule of the case as it now stands. The possibility of extradition to Italy, and whether the Kerchers would sue Knox in US civil court.

I believe she will lose her appeal and final cassazione hearing. This is an astrological and psychic prediction, and thanks to all the reasons that kept me at it. This journey has been very interesting for me, and I will write about it, in the usual places:-) As the activists say to the oppressors, "with this pen I reply to you".

I do not know that Italy will ever request Knox's extradition. It is up to its justice department to forward a request to the foreign secretary, who must then send it to her counterpart in the US, which then sends it to Justice to follow up on. As we have seen with the CIA rendition and Roman Polanski case, much can get ignored.

I also believe she will never return to Italy or serve time for the crime. But the real prison is there, in Seattle, and she will be never free of it.

I also hope the Kerchers will never sue her in civil court. My concern is for the declining health of John and Arline Kercher, and all I will hope for them is to finally, learn the truth of what happened to their daughter and, receive long overdue justice.

Tom Kington of the Telegraph (a good reporter, one of many I spoke to but gosh did his phone keep ringing in court) wrote that Stephanie Kercher had wanted to attend the hearing but could not because of her mother's failing health. Keeping in mind that John Kercher has had two mini strokes and Arlene requires kidney treatment, I truly hope they will keep well and wish them all the best.

There was much puzzlement in court about who I was and why I was there. The only foreigner of color, dressed in a bespoke suit and expensive briefcase, (to respect the court and the occasion) I clearly was not a reporter, all of whom dressed er, comfortably :)

Francesco Sollecito kept looking at me, wondering why I was there. Many reporters asked who I was, and I told them. One of them thought I was Meredith's uncle, given my Pakistani background (Arline Kercher is from Lahore, my place of birth) and all asked my interest in the case. I told them I was there on behalf of all of you at Perugia Murder Files, and no, I had never met the family. I saw Frank Sfarzo there and went and stood beside him for a while. He kept tweeting away on his phone (looked like a small blackberry or samsung, black).
I looked at him many times, both inside and outside the court. He never once made eye contact or approached me :) He was holding court outside with other reporters of the Italian media, then left in his little smart car. I did not see him in court the next day, but it was crowded, so who knows? I think he got spooked :-)

But remember this: Frank Sfarzo is the key to the FOA campaign and the reason the demonization of PM Mignini gained so much traction in media outside Italy. Even Doug Preston could not have gone far without having Frank as 'proof' of how Mignini was orchestrating the so called persecution of Amanda Knox. As was conclusively shown here on. NET, he was paid to say so. IMO, he is still being paid to keep low, even if he was hustled out of the Mellas and Huff households. I received evidence from our sources about this, which has been passed on to the Italian authorities. The media, which has been so lax in following up on this, will hopefully now do their job. I believe that Frank Sfarzo also enjoys a certain degree of immunity in Italy, the Two Italies I wrote of, and has information that will completely condemn Knox and Sollecito. He definitely is an informant with sources inside the questura, and helping hands from masonic elements in Perugia that are still out to get Mignini. Thankfully, they've been dealt a severe blow by Cassazione, and the MOF investigation will now continue.

It began as a beautiful sunny morning here in Rome, and now the clouds are coming in, so I'm off to the Colloseum and Forum, then the shops of via del corso. I miss my family, and hope to bring them to Italy one day. I have walked these steps before, I know I will again.

Why am I here? Many reasons, but perhaps another time. My avatar, the Vespa, was not only in respect of the Italian people, but really to honour my father, a struggling foreign service civil servant whose first means of transportation for our family was a Vespa, and whose 85th birthday is coming up April 05, just as I return home. Happy Birthday, Dad.

But now, as I cross the streets against traffic lights and dodge all the motorists like any other resident of Rome, let me tell you how much I'm enjoying this city. The warmth, the panache, the sheer attractiveness of Rome and its people, I'll always remember. Heck, when I see motorists zip by on their scooters, a cigarillo perched jauntily on their lips, I think how much I love this city.
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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon,

I also think that the Kerchers will never touch the Knox money: simply because it is tainted.

Also, they have a different value system.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
Thanks Nell. Nice to have the full text of the Supreme Court decision translated into English.

Nina Burleigh goes off on targets, taking potshots at PMF and TMJK and dissing the "haters" in her article in TIME. ff)

She sounds almost like Bruce Fischer, angry and caustic.

The Amanda Knox Haters Society: How They Learned to Hate Me Too
By Nina Burleigh

When Italy‘s highest court reversed the acquittal of Amanda Knox and ex-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito this week, a small cottage industry on the internet began grinding back into high gear. Actually it has never had a down day: the Knox-hating websites have been passing along innuendo and cherry-picked factoids for six years now.


TIME (WORLD)

(We are sooo happy to be mentioned by Jim Lovering in Comments.)


Burleigh can attack us as much as she likes. They are not "cherry picked factoids", it is the case against Knox and Sollecito, based on evidence, and that case is overwhelming. I know she would like us to cherry pick for real...cherry pick the evidence we are going to accept (all of the evidence against Guede) and cherry pick the evidence we are going to reject (all of the evidence against Knox and Sollecito), as she has done, but unlike her we have treated the evidence and all the protagonists without bias. We have weighed the evidence based on its own merits, not on who it applies to, as Burleigh has done.

I will also add, we are no "industry", cottage or otherwise. We have never taken a penny for anything we have done, individually or collectively. Burleigh is the industry, it is she that has been selling books and interviews on the back of advocacy journalism, just as many of Knox's supporters has. She needs to stop projecting.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

It all seems rather odd to me. Reading the media, whether they be Knox supporters or not, they all seem utterly confused as to why the High Court threw out Knox and Sollecito's appeal acquittal. Had any of them bothered (and it seems none of them have) to actually read the prosecution's appeal to the High Court, GALATI COSTAGLIOLA APPEAL TO SUPREME COURT, then none of this confusion would exist. They would know exactly why Knox and Sollecito's acquittal was rightly thrown out. Instead, it would appear that most 'journalists' obtain the sub-total of their knowledge on this case from articles written by their fellow 'journalists' and the Knox family's press pack in one mad circle jerk. They then all act utterly shocked when things don't go according to the script they've co-written.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi Cape, Napia, Ava and everyone else who said hello, great to see you all again :)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:35 pm   Post subject: LOCKING THREAD!   

picture of a pumpkin
This topic has been locked by a Moderator
Reason: I am now locking this thread. Please continue the discussion in the brand new Main Discussion thread XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -

Thank You

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