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XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31, 12 - MARCH 29, 13 (S)

Moderators: Nell, Ergon, Michael, Moderators


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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:06 pm   Post subject: MORE FRANKNESS   

Quote:
MichaelB Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:31 am

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 613
Are they just allegations or was Frank arrested and jailed in Hawaii?

Quote:
Bruce Fisher Quote:
"As of now we have allegations. If charges are filed then this would certainly become a public case and we would have the facts necessary to move forward."


Well something happened in Hawaii and Raffaele asked if Frank was in jail. It's obvious that it's serious.

When Quennell was exposed by you it was breathtaking how they all rallied around him like it didn't matter. Hopefully there's not double standards on this side.


Indeed, I hope not, on either side. In the mean time, it appears that serious allegations have been made against someone you actively promoted and collected funds for. You know, pertaining to the case? Neither Frank, nor Bettina has made any further clarification, though it appears that when we say it's a private matter, you disparage that, then promptly tell your own people, the same. Nope, Frank's situation isn't private. You hitched your website to Frank Sfarzo, and your entire edifice against PM MIgnini is based on allegations made by Frank Sfarzo (and Doug Preston). Yet you publish them any way.

We don't know what happened in this particular instance. But what it appears is, that you knew about this earlier, yet your first instinct was to hush it up. And that, is the story.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Does anyone know if this is the woman who "loaned" Frank her PayPal account, as his was allegedly closed by PayPal in the middle of the big IIP campaign/member pat down for his phenomenal 10,000 "rent deposit" and "money to pay the police for beating him up" ie the domestic abuse charge?

That's like loaning out your bank account. The potential for abuse is quite high.


No idea, louiehaha. Anyone? Checked out the "Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds" page and nothing except for having problems with Paypal, and yes, there was a big push for donations.

And Bettina seems to have left I-A, but inquiring minds want to know: was she the woman who took Frank to "the Islands"? Was Hawaii where he was "arrested"? "Insulted the natives, made remarks about his supporters"? But then, as his supporters say, I "don't know Frank".

I'm sure Bettina wishes the same.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

IMHO, if there was some type of personal relationship involved, and one party has been left dissatisfied, it's none of my business. These things happen between people all the time, and have no bearing on this case. Again, just my opinion.
If she financed a trip to Hawaii, and ended up personally disillusioned, sad for her, but, again, not my issue. Surprised she didn't see it coming, but that's another story.

You have my complete attention, however, when I start seeing words like theft, and other activities that fall under the heading of 'criminal'. Particularly when these words are posted by a member of long standing against the White Knight presently fighting for truth, justice, and the (Italian) way against the Prosecutor Mignini. I'm all ears.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I agree, Napia5, just as the medical history of a poster on another blog is irrelevant to the case but they still tried to post it HERE, and the owner of another website may have written inappropriate e-mails which had nothing to do with the case. It is within that context that I call the owner of I-A, Bruce Fischer, a hypocrite when he says he wants to get the 'facts' first and 'not be like TMZ'. Yeah, right. His own supporters are rightly calling for answers, when it looks like he tried to cover it up. If I hadn't caught it first, that is.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
I agree, Napia5, just as the medical history of a poster on another blog is irrelevant to the case but they still tried to post it HERE, and the owner of another website may have written inappropriate e-mails which had nothing to do with the case. It is within that context that I call the owner of I-A, Bruce Fischer, a hypocrite when he says he wants to get the 'facts' first and 'not be like TMZ'. Yeah, right. His own supporters are rightly calling for answers, when it looks like he tried to cover it up. If I hadn't caught it first, that is.


And while we're on the subject, with respect to the two cases you refer to here, even though both parties gave a full accounting of their sides of these issues, both parties are STILL being subjected to personal attacks. Shoe, meet other foot.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

For now, I have only this to say...Bruce Fisher is in a whole world of trouble. His is coming and he doesn't even realise it. I'm saying no more, because I don't want to give him any clues. For years now he has been screaming for 'justice' and justice is now coming for him, but not the kind he had in mind...and I'm rather looking forward to seeing it hit him right between the eyes. Nasty little men always come to nasty little ends and always, it's self inflicted.

By the by, does the membership over at IIP doubt me NOW that nice little Frankie was trying to sell naked pictures of their treasured Angel on the market?! The MOTIVE for which (motive for the Groupies seemingly being the hardest proof possible against an accused and its absence proof positive that they are innocent, no matter what and how much other evidence stands against them...unless...you are someone involved in supporting Meredith or acting to bring Knox to justice against whom of course, any accusation can be repeatedly publicly made with no evidence or substantiated motive whatsoever) was MONEY, which is the motive for almost everything Frank does, the only other driving force in his life being spite. Any FOAKer wanna post a comment here Tuesday? I'd love it!

Oh, one last little pearl about the FOAKers I have to throw out before I sign off...THEY ARE SHITTING THEMSELVES over TWO bombs that are about to go off: Sfarzogate...and the Kerchers about to launch on the web (there's even a countdown clock :) ) It will take all of their resources to stand any hope of diffusing one, but they have zero chance of diffusing both, so they have to decide and hope it's the right choice...if there is one. And coming up fast on the heels of these is the High Court appeal. Oh, the panic. For me, Stephanie Kercher's countdown clock is one of my favourite things in the world for the foreseeable future and the closer it gets to zero the more I'm liking it. The smartest choice for them, may be to just run off and join Frank on that Island.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:28 pm   Post subject: Re: ADMINISTRATOR   

dollycat wrote:
Michael wrote:
Administrator Note:

Hi, Everyone. Several topics: Firstly, I have added Stephanie Kercher's ...


Second Topic. The planned new major PMF project...

Third and last. All of the staff have been...

Michael



Hi Michael - all links seem to be working from my end. I look forward to supporting Stephanie's fund. Hope everyone is well x



Thank you, Dollycat :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Yes with this twat in mind and then Sollecito, anyone would think they are brothers, but in a way, in his own way, this Frank is even nastier than Sollecito, definitely AS nasty at the very least. He still comes out with such nasty things, like looking today a moment, on the site with his scribbles, I saw left-hand side he has one that says something like Meredith's genepool, I looked no further than that, I mean I didn't open that shite of his, but it was exactly as he'd done right after Meredith's murder with his so terribly distasteful polls, one of which Do you think Meredith wa a nice person (click kere yes or no).

I mean if I hadn't been standoffish and hadn't already started hating the guy, when I saw that, that was it. The guy has lots he is hiding.


I agree, Zorba. And, unless I miss my guess, Bettina is about to be thrown under a very big bus.

Bettina does not care about the bus. Frank abused her and threatened the police. That is why he went to jail in Hawaii. Same thing happened in Canada. Yes, lots of hiding, secrets. Now you are on the right track.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

tamale wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Yes with this twat in mind and then Sollecito, anyone would think they are brothers, but in a way, in his own way, this Frank is even nastier than Sollecito, definitely AS nasty at the very least. He still comes out with such nasty things, like looking today a moment, on the site with his scribbles, I saw left-hand side he has one that says something like Meredith's genepool, I looked no further than that, I mean I didn't open that shite of his, but it was exactly as he'd done right after Meredith's murder with his so terribly distasteful polls, one of which Do you think Meredith wa a nice person (click kere yes or no).

I mean if I hadn't been standoffish and hadn't already started hating the guy, when I saw that, that was it. The guy has lots he is hiding.


I agree, Zorba. And, unless I miss my guess, Bettina is about to be thrown under a very big bus.

Bettina does not care about the bus. Frank abused her and threatened the police. That is why he went to jail in Hawaii. Same thing happened in Canada. Yes, lots of hiding, secrets. Now you are on the right track.


God forgive me for my sarcastic mouth if some poor woman was abused in this situation. I'm speechless.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:35 am   Post subject: Re: MORE FRANKNESS   

Ergon wrote:
Quote:
MichaelB Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:31 am

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 613
Are they just allegations or was Frank arrested and jailed in Hawaii?

Quote:
Bruce Fisher Quote:
"As of now we have allegations. If charges are filed then this would certainly become a public case and we would have the facts necessary to move forward."


Well something happened in Hawaii and Raffaele asked if Frank was in jail. It's obvious that it's serious.

When Quennell was exposed by you it was breathtaking how they all rallied around him like it didn't matter. Hopefully there's not double standards on this side.

Yes, I have been urged to shut up. Frank went to jail because the police did not like his threats.Who threatens the police???They photographed the bruises on my leg from being pushed down. Why is the truth not good enough?? He goes to court in Kona on the 19th. He made these problems. He could have had a great time on the island. Now my character is questioned....because F must be protected. Then he wrote a blatently false letter, defaming me with lies that fall from his foul mouth with ease. Why did fan the flames? I have no problem telling the story....I will not protect abusers or fabricators.
I am a private citizen and did not ask for this. Frank...please shut up so I am not forced to set the record straight. ICK

Indeed, I hope not, on either side. In the mean time, it appears that serious allegations have been made against someone you actively promoted and collected funds for. You know, pertaining to the case? Neither Frank, nor Bettina has made any further clarification, though it appears that when we say it's a private matter, you disparage that, then promptly tell your own people, the same. Nope, Frank's situation isn't private. You hitched your website to Frank Sfarzo, and your entire edifice against PM MIgnini is based on allegations made by Frank Sfarzo (and Doug Preston). Yet you publish them any way.

We don't know what happened in this particular instance. But what it appears is, that you knew about this earlier, yet your first instinct was to hush it up. And that, is the story.
Yeah...they hushed it up. Frank will reveal himself
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Yes with this twat in mind and then Sollecito, anyone would think they are brothers, but in a way, in his own way, this Frank is even nastier than Sollecito, definitely AS nasty at the very least. He still comes out with such nasty things, like looking today a moment, on the site with his scribbles, I saw left-hand side he has one that says something like Meredith's genepool, I looked no further than that, I mean I didn't open that shite of his, but it was exactly as he'd done right after Meredith's murder with his so terribly distasteful polls, one of which Do you think Meredith wa a nice person (click kere yes or no).

I mean if I hadn't been standoffish and hadn't already started hating the guy, when I saw that, that was it. The guy has lots he is hiding.


I agree, Zorba. And, unless I miss my guess, Bettina is about to be thrown under a very big bus.

Indeed, I have tried to tell my story. I have been hushed. My character and mental health called into question. I don't care...I am not afraid of the truth. Further, Bettina is a girl who did not ask for this......you have never seen her grabbing attention.
Bring on the bus...
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

tamale wrote:
Bettina does not care about the bus. Frank abused her and threatened the police. That is why he went to jail in Hawaii. Same thing happened in Canada. Yes, lots of hiding, secrets. Now you are on the right track.


We don't know that he went to jail in Hawaii. Something DID happen there (hence Bettina's statement) and in Canada, hence Frank's outburst as soon as he crossed back over the border. Just couldn't figure out what it was exactly, except he had some sort of run in with the authorities in BOTH places. I wonder how many little red flags need to go up before The Groupies wake up, but somewhere, Mignini is smiling :)

But now the cat's out of the bag, why haven't we heard from Frank and Bettina yet?
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
tamale wrote:
Bettina does not care about the bus. Frank abused her and threatened the police. That is why he went to jail in Hawaii. Same thing happened in Canada. Yes, lots of hiding, secrets. Now you are on the right track.


We don't know that he went to jail in Hawaii. Something DID happen there (hence Bettina's statement) and in Canada, hence Frank's outburst as soon as he crossed back over the border. Just couldn't figure out what it was exactly, except he had some sort of run in with the authorities in BOTH places. I wonder how many little red flags need to go up before The Groupies wake up, but somewhere, Mignini is smiling :)

But now the cat's out of the bag, why haven't we heard from Frank and Bettina yet?

I believe we just heard from Bettina? Tamale is Bettina right? Sorry, but it is a bit confusing with the different usernames so why not just say it?
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
Ergon wrote:
tamale wrote:
Bettina does not care about the bus. Frank abused her and threatened the police. That is why he went to jail in Hawaii. Same thing happened in Canada. Yes, lots of hiding, secrets. Now you are on the right track.


We don't know that he went to jail in Hawaii. Something DID happen there (hence Bettina's statement) and in Canada, hence Frank's outburst as soon as he crossed back over the border. Just couldn't figure out what it was exactly, except he had some sort of run in with the authorities in BOTH places. I wonder how many little red flags need to go up before The Groupies wake up, but somewhere, Mignini is smiling :)

But now the cat's out of the bag, why haven't we heard from Frank and Bettina yet?

I believe we just heard from Bettina? Tamale is Bettina right? Sorry, but it is a bit confusing with the different usernames so why not just say it?


I've asked for some clarification, max, but yes, this is an invite for Bettina to share what she wants to say. I'm sure we'll hear from Frank too :)
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
TWO bombs that are about to go off: Sfarzogate...and the Kerchers about to launch on the web...


Thanks Michael. I think this pretty much sums up the current situation quite nicely. Their 'hero' (if you can call him that) just fell off the pedestal that they placed him on. I'm sure they will try to put him back up, but it won't work, and the facts are impossible to ignore.

Really, that Sfarzo guy was so full of himself all these years, he will now go down in shame, which is exactly what he deserves.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Thanks Ergon. She revealed it 2 years ago when Donnie showed the world how 'cool' he was being able to troll several forums under different usernames. Abuse/assault is very serious and if you want to have an open and honest discussion about it, then lets start with being open and honest. That is all I have to say about it :)

Quote:
Bettina
Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:52 am

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:04 pm
Posts: 103
Quote:
snooky wrote:
Excuse me for being hugely off topic, but since Stint is reading IIP daily, I just have to respond.

Stint, Bruce Fisher doesn't need my help, he'll be fine and most probably he will ignore your latest rant (it's something I should do also), but I can't.

PMF is a hate site, filled with idiots, with no lives. You deservd to be tricked by me and I won. We won. Thankfully, I was sneaky enough to save ALL of the PMS that I received. I will continue to defend justice, Bruce Fisher and everyone who's on the good side. As childish as it may sound, it's still the best what I could come up with before my hitting session and meeting with real life friends. What about you, Stint? Say hi to your fellas at both .net and .org from donnie. Ciao Suckers.


GET OUT!!! Another mystery solved. I am flabbergasted (and delighted). Signed, Tamale... The answer to your question...I am female.
Waiter...more champagne please.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

That was then, and this is now, max :) But yes, I'm hoping we'll hear back from tamale, and i say this sincerely.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Yet here they are on "their" site, saying that Frank IS in jail, and will be appearing in Kona court on the 19th. Surely thats when hes due in Perugia?
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
Yet here they are on "their" site, saying that Frank IS in jail, and will be appearing in Kona court on the 19th. Surely thats when hes due in Perugia?


Now Frank's in jail in the United States? Great. Now my tax dollars are feeding him. What a world.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

You would think you were the one Ergon who deserved to be charged judging from the angry response. Obvious that all over there are dying to know the details that Bruce has known for some time. What an awkward position for him to be in. You simply offered your sympathies to Bettina before she was silenced. All of those that jump on Bettina should be more than 'disappointed' with Frank. They seem to care nothing about the serious allegations but are more worried you might be pleased. After its about a perceived loss of points to them.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Bruce isn't the only one in an awkward position, as far as I can see. Bettina wrote in her post, thanking everyone for their calls. So, more than just Bruce are aware of this.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I read Frank mentioning the arrest of 'the innocuous Giorgio Cocciaretto' in his latest scribble so I looked it up. Seems this happened last June already and he was leading some kind of riot against the police that turned violent. Giorgio Cocciaretto was one of the downstairs guys or a friend of the downstairs guys. I am not sure. He testified about RG.

http://www.lanazione.it/umbria/cronaca/ ... uomo.shtml
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Yes with this twat in mind and then Sollecito, anyone would think they are brothers, but in a way, in his own way, this Frank is even nastier than Sollecito, definitely AS nasty at the very least. He still comes out with such nasty things, like looking today a moment, on the site with his scribbles, I saw left-hand side he has one that says something like Meredith's genepool, I looked no further than that, I mean I didn't open that shite of his, but it was exactly as he'd done right after Meredith's murder with his so terribly distasteful polls, one of which Do you think Meredith wa a nice person (click kere yes or no).

I mean if I hadn't been standoffish and hadn't already started hating the guy, when I saw that, that was it. The guy has lots he is hiding.


I agree, Zorba. And, unless I miss my guess, Bettina is about to be thrown under a very big bus.



They are busy writing a play for her as we speak Nap.

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Last edited by zorba on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
I read Frank mentioning the arrest of 'the innocuous Giorgio Cocciaretto' in his latest scribble so I looked it up. Seems this happened last June already and he was leading some kind of riot against the police that turned violent. Giorgio Cocciaretto was one of the downstairs guys or a friend of the downstairs guys. I am not sure. He testified about RG.

http://www.lanazione.it/umbria/cronaca/ ... uomo.shtml


Thanks for the link to La Nazione article, max. Giorgio Cocciaretto was a friend of AK's downstairs neighbors Stefano Bonassi, Marco Marzan, Giacomo Silenzi, and Riccardo Luciani.

From the translation of the Massei Report posted at WordPress.com (The Residents of the Lower Floor of Via della Pergola 7):

Quote:
Giorgio Cocciaretto: at the hearing of 6-19-2009 he stated that he was in Perugia for the purpose of studying. He knew the young men who lived at Via Della Pergola 7, as they were from the same region as he. He often visited the house; at first only the lower apartment but then also the upper, when he made the acquaintance of the young women. He knew Meredith, whom he had met at the home of the young men one evening, on the occasion of a dinner among friends. He also knew Amanda Knox, Filomena Romanelli, and Laura Mezzetti. He had met Rudy Guede at the basketball court at Piazza Grimana and they often played basketball together. He was also present once at a party in the house on Via Della Pergola which Rudy Guede attended. He recalled that one evening while they were downtown they had run into Rudy with some friends of his; they had been at a pub, and around 2:00 am, when they returned to the house on Via Della Pergola, Rudy came with them. Rudy had made friends in particular with Marco Marzan and with him [Cocciaretto] “because we had developed this friendship playing basketball every day, and then he also came a few times to the house”. As he [Cocciaretto] frequented the house, he had seen Rudy there two or three times, and on one of these occasions Amanda and Meredith were also present; Rudy spoke with both of them and on one occasion he confided to [Cocciaretto] that he liked Amanda.


http://masseireport.wordpress.com/contents/31-2/
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:45 pm   Post subject: MORE LEGAL THREATS, HO HUM   

Here's why the Amanda Knox page has turned into a parody of its subject, the reverend "Bill Williams" of B.C.'s umpteenth copy post on the same subject :)

Quote:
"Bill Williams Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:37 pm
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:49 pm
Posts: 3385

Residents of Canada who use Canadian ISPs to engage in cyber-bullying should take note of this CBC.CA report:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/st ... libel.html
Cyberbullying restaurant owner gets 90 days in jail
Marisol Simoes sent lewd emails to reviewer's boss, created fake account on adult dating site
CBC News Posted: Nov 16, 2012

Just to be clear, because no one ever sees themselves as a cyberbullier.....

...... Canadians like Ergon, Stilicho and others who've posted libellous statements on various sites about Amanda Knox or Raffaele Sollecito, should at the very least take this report to a solicitor for an opinion. And take with you some of the things you have posted.

It is one thing to express an opinion. It is another thing to post something libellous. At the very least get a professional opinion as to where you stand."


Duly noted the first time around, "Bill Williams". And I think your previous attempts, exploiting the sad case of Amanda Todd, a real victim of cyberbullying, just to protect your faves, Amanda Knox and Rafaelle Sollecito, reveals your own failings as a human being, not mine.

No wonder you groupies have convinced Frank "I love money" Sfarzo he can "get a retirement income from settlements with people in the U.S., Canada, the U.K and Italy". No wonder you became Frank's enablers as he abused people behind their backs and caused a ruckus whereever he went.

Speaking of which, where's Frank? ;)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:01 pm   Post subject: WHERE'S FRANK?   

"MichaelB Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:50 am
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 625

Quote:
MichaelB wrote:

Yep. I wonder where he is if he's gotta be in court tomorrow? Unless it's Dec 19th?

Bettina alleging he put brusies on her body and the police took photos

I feel sorry for the supporters who have to keep babysitting the bum.


Quote:
B_Real wrote:

Where is she claiming that? Facebook? Don't use it myself.



Quote:
.net


Quote:
Quote:Bettina:
Yes, I have been urged to shut up. Frank went to jail because the police did not like his threats.Who threatens the police???They photographed the bruises on my leg from being pushed down. Why is the truth not good enough?? He goes to court in Kona on the 19th. He made these problems. He could have had a great time on the island. Now my character is questioned....because F must be protected. Then he wrote a blatently false letter, defaming me with lies that fall from his foul mouth with ease. Why did fan the flames? I have no problem telling the story....I will not protect abusers or fabricators.
I am a private citizen and did not ask for this. Frank...please shut up so I am not forced to set the record straight. ICK
"

------

I can see why Bully, er, Bill Williams felt the urgent need to issue ANOTHER threat of legal action, er, warning of possible liability, etc. at this precise moment in time. Great. Have the Groupies ever considered that Frank, with so many serious and unresolved allegations against him, just might have abused other women? That's the pattern. And they want this swept under the rug? And they blame me instead? I got all this information from Bruce Fischer's site, and I'm the bad guy? These posts clearly indicate they knew about it, and tried to hush it for some time. It looks like Frank wrote a private letter to his supporters maligning Bettina. They, as per usual, are writing obfuscatory nonsense like "he can't be in jail since he posted a comment on perugiashock" (yeah, someone posted for him? :) and KayPea chimes in with "they both were questioned" (how would she know, unless soemthing DID happen?) so there's something fishy there.

Well, let me say this. I would like to welcome Bettina and any other person that has had similar experiences to write and set the record straight. All I did was express my sympathy here at dot net. No matter what side we are on, I mean that sincerely.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I should also add that most of these statements were posted on I-A, and not, PMF.NET as 'MichaelB'. incorrectly states. And Bruce now says to MichaelB that "I have also spoken to Frank and heard his version of the story" and regarding Canada "I will tell you that I know who Frank was staying with in Canada and the incident was nothing like Bettina as allegedly described above. An older gentleman had a bit too much to drink and there was an argument" :) and that "I will not be posting Frank's words here (as you have decided to do for Bettina) because there are many negative details about Bettina's personal life that come into play" so it's "He said, She said".

Fair enough.

Kaypea, as usual has the last word, about Frank and his "wonderful vacation in the PNW" and "what should have been a fun side trip to Hawaii has turned out ugly. It's very, very, sad."

No, kaypea, what's very very, sad, is that the Kerchers have been denied justice for their daughter's murder due to political pressure brought about by the supporters of Amanda Knox, many of whom were mislead by the stories about PM Mignini by the likes of Doug Preston and Frank Sfarzo.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

So, do I have this straight now? None of what happened is Frank's fault in any way, but he's in jail again?
Is that IIP's bottom line?
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Anyway, let's get back to our discussion and examination of the circumstances surrounding Meredith's death.

The best (and relatively objective) part of Burleigh's book ends abruptly at page 200; now it's all about mishandling of the crime scene by the Scientific Police and misinterpretation of evidence by police and prosecutors (from Burleigh's point of view). I don't feel like reading the last 100 pages of her book, but here is an interesting bit about Knox's first statement to the police on the afternoon of 2 Nov.

Nina Burleigh wrote:
They called Amanda first.

At 2:30 P.M., less than two hours after her roommate's body had been found, Amanda Knox sat down for the first time with the Perugia police. Her boyfriend, Raffaele, made his first statement in a separate room, time stamped at 3:45 P.M. They were still just "persons informed of the facts," not suspects, but police would begin wiretapping their phones from that day forward.
......
In that statement, Amanda said:
......
" I went to the bathroom to dry my hair, and I noticed there were feces in the toilet. I thought this was very weird. I did not flush it. Then I picked up the floor detergent that was in a little closet and I left the house to go to clean up my boyfriend's room because the night before we had dirtied it. When I left, it must have been around eleven thirty. I can't be precise, I wasn't looking at my watch."


Burleigh presents this statement in quotation marks on p.173 as if these quotes were gleaned from the official transcript of Knox's initial statement to the police. It's the first time we ever heard Knox say something about the 'floor detergent'. Isn't it curious that, in that first statement, she hasn't mentioned the necessity of taking the mop to dry the floor in Sollecito's apartment?

Just one little detail, but very telling if true.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I was lost a minute here, replying to Nap and a page behind, before I saw all of these posts so I wasn't making head nor tail of things

I did wonder where this island in Italy was, as I'd never heard of it, ha ha, .... Hawaii, Malvern had a word for conman, I had to look it up, but conman is dead accurate.


Essentially, it appears, Frank jumped on the bandwagon because he himself is again it appears, a woman abuser, and it seems like this with nearly all of these characters, that they had a hit on the head or something, I mean not quite right in the brain, right but so wrong, as in, they all are attracted to the things that they are into themselves, certainly Frank is, and more, not only a woman hater, misogynist nasty, a filthy little racist too, I mean that what he did to Patrick, that blew me away at the time, how he had the audacity to speak as if Patrick was a friend of his, I knew after what he said that Patrick may have shown him friendship but this creep Frank could never have returned the honour, as he shat on him, and Patrick was even still in jail at the time, or had just been released, instead of a little sympathy, there was Frank being incredibly spiteful and unkind towards Patrick.


They've all got this snidely horrible way, good grief!!!

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi, Guermantes.

I am finding your take on Burleigh's book quite interesting. When I read your post up-thread concerning Knox's early behavior, I felt that Burleigh put Knox in a negative light in her early years. Her comments about the need for attention, and the need never being stronger than when she was with her father rang true, and I don't believe that even the casual reader would get a picture of a happy, well-adjusted child in their minds from this. It's quite odd that the tone of the book changes mid-stream.

I've often wished that I could get my hands on Knox's official statements to the police in the days before her arrest.
I believe that the changing of her stories, coupled with Sollecito's were a major factor in heightened police interest during that time. The two of them had no real plan for a story about what happened BEFORE the murder, and could only compare notes after they were questionned. Pretty clear to me, but I would love to see exactly what took place in those early interviews.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Thanks Napia. :)

Napia5 wrote:
I've often wished that I could get my hands on Knox's official statements to the police in the days before her arrest....I would love to see exactly what took place in those early interviews.


Me too.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
So, do I have this straight now? None of what happened is Frank's fault in any way, but he's in jail again?
Is that IIP's bottom line?

So they wonder what Frank and Bettina's problems have to do with the case? It look like Frank has had negative interactions with the police not once but three times. Even on holiday in Hawaii! Can they really put any faith into his account of what happened between the police and himself in Perugia? Lets face it that's the real problem they are having over on IIP. That kind of behavior with the police will be on record and is not a he said she said. Three times its a pattern.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I'm personally curious about why he's still in jail, if he is, and not out on bail. No money? No friends to post it?
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
I'm personally curious about why he's still in jail, if he is, and not out on bail. No money? No friends to post it?

Precisely why I am telling the world. Friends will not help. However, some of them were generous to share their own disappointment. I will tell no stories. I will speak about what occured in Hawaii. The truth is good enough. Yes I am Bettina, using fake screen names because I did not want drama. I did not wish to be public....
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

tamale wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
I'm personally curious about why he's still in jail, if he is, and not out on bail. No money? No friends to post it?

Precisely why I am telling the world. Friends will not help. However, some of them were generous to share their own disappointment. I will tell no stories. I will speak about what occured in Hawaii. The truth is good enough. Yes I am Bettina, using fake screen names because I did not want drama. I did not wish to be public....


First things first. Are you OK? Are you safe?
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I'm, afraid I'm not following this story too well, so Bettina/Tamale was a friend to Frank?

Sounds like a non-native Speaker of English but with quite good ability in English, so a friend from Italy?

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

What I am sure of, Frank is one of these that you hear of, like when granny dies, keeps her there in her rocking chair, for a year, drawing her pension, in fact, in Franks case, he might be like those you hear of that poison granny, then draws her pension

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

In fact, maybe that's why nobody is helping him, he has no family as they're all dead and their pensions and what not plundered.

All I'm saying is this guy is incredible, I mean to mess around with the law, in such a serious case, in Italy, making things even harder, and falsely accusing what are his own people but then without grounds to do such things, he was plainly profiting every and any way he could.

I bet they really miss him like a bullet in the head in Italy

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:00 am   Post subject: RE: FRANK SFARZO   

I have just spoken to Bettina personally and heard what she has to say. Basically, she confirms what she has written here and on I-A, and given me the details of what actually happened. I have offered a space to tell her side, in her own words, seeing as how Frank Sfarzo has circulated a letter to his supporters making all sorts of allegations about her.

I take no personal pleasure in this, as if it's about points against 'the other side'. I know there are good people on both sides of the divide who disagree honestly about the outcomes of the various trials. For my part I'd rather act with integrity than 'win' anything. But one thing that angers me is when I see someone being mistreated, and lies to cover up, so I will help any one that needs it.

For now, Bettina needs to recover from what she went through. More than anything else she is disappointed in what she sees as efforts to suppress her voice, but she'll speak for herself here, in a few days when she can organize her thoughts.

I can confirm this for now:

Francesco Sforza was charged with harassment and taken away by the police around November 11. (Bettina/tamale will confirm the exact date when she writes)

She was pushed and the police took pictures of her injuries.

The police would have just escorted him away but he became agitated and threatened to sue them.

He has been in jail for a whole week, and had a court hearing today (Monday 2:30 Hawaiian time)

He was due to leave Hawaii on November 14 but missed it because he's being held pending the hearing.

Haven't heard the outcome yet but Bettina is fine now. She gave a witness statement so didn't even have to appear at the hearing. The police have enough evidence.

He caused a similar situation in Canada and lied to the police, so they seized his passport. It was only due to the intervention of his supporters in Seattle that they released his papers and let him return.

He blames all his problems on the prosecutor, Mignini. Bettina did not even know the details of the charges against him in Perugia, but asks, "when this happens so often, how can people not see what he's like?"

I will update when I have further news, and Bettina will write more when she can.


~Ergon
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

malvern wrote:
So they wonder what Frank and Bettina's problems have to do with the case? It look like Frank has had negative interactions with the police not once but three times. Even on holiday in Hawaii! Can they really put any faith into his account of what happened between the police and himself in Perugia? Lets face it that's the real problem they are having over on IIP. That kind of behavior with the police will be on record and is not a he said she said. Three times its a pattern.


Hi malvern, thanks for this -- it needed saying. And if this is a pattern, it's very likely to reoccur and escalate. If there was any doubt that Sfarzo was arrested in Perugia after domestic disturbance and charged with assault/battery and domestic violence, that doubt should be removed now. Or does anyone still believe Italian cops would show up at his home to harass, threaten, and intimidate him, as though they had nothing better to do? The guy sees himself as a kind of semi-god, fighting police, prosecutors and authority, and he expects everyone to bow down and worship him for this. When others don't regard him as such, he feels offended. He will again repeat his dishonest ways with whoever else he deals with; his favorite pastime is sponging off others and he just wants money in whatever way he can get it. Shameful.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Thank you, Ergon, not only for this update after following up with Bettina, but also for urging all sides to agree to disagree on some issues and refrain from personal attacks on commenters.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

As usual, Mr. Nobody got the script a day late.



But he has no problem lying according to the script.


Thanks to Ergon for all the good detective work on SFARZOGATE!
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Could this be the Canadian supporter Frank assaulted – roughed up - whatever you call it? His last post at IIP was August 30, 2012.
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Age: 71
His post is a little long. Basically he says that Frank’s role in Seattle was to help get Mignini in jail.

Quote:
e740jph wrote:
::rose:: Frank Sfarzo is flying into Seattle right now. Delta Flight 1043, South Terminal, Gate 7. The plane is 58 m late - estimated arrival at 20:28.
So all you Seattlelites who have admired his efforts can still hustle to the airport and give him a warm welcome.
pmop57 wrote:
Is there anybody who knows how Frank has been received in Seattle and what his plans in the next futur are?


e740jph wrote:
It is very simple. Most people think the case is over and so nobody gives a sh.t. Sadly, it is not over! Mignini is now more dangerous than ever as his career is now even more at risk than after the nonsense in Florence. The local judges are closing ranks since the downfall of Piggy would reflect poorly on many of them.

This has a lot to do with proper behavior of the judges and prosecutors previously involved. It has become a matter of professional survival. So they are closing ranks. Old boys networks are humming.
Do you really think that Galati is just quietly waiting for the Supreme Court's quiet reconsideration? He is busily working his old contacts to ensure survival.

Remember the sins of Mignini and his cops:

- Providing no access to a lawyer or neutral interpreter during questioning by the the police as required by law.
- The lack of recording the interrogation as required by law, while later blowing away insane amounts of money on some buffoonish recreation of the crime according to the great Mignini.
- Matteini agreeing with the use of some obscure Mafia related law that prevented Amanda from having proper legal representation until just before her preliminary hearing.
- Massei working free and loose with some 39 unsubstantiated 'assumptions' in coming to his puerile conclusions.

I could go on endlessly - but we are all tired of repeating this. Let's just get Mignini into jail, "Dr." Stephanoni into a job she can actually handle with a Bachelor of Science degree, once she learns to know the basics of science.

As to the cops - perhaps they should stop beating up people and be made aware of the concept of 'human rights'. If the 'Flying Squad' reduced their altitude there would be at least a slim chance for sufficient amounts of oxygen to be available to keep their brains functioning at at least minimal levels.

= end of rant = Sorry for the disruption. Peter Hoemberg e740JPH

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/a ... 15900.html

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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:36 am   Post subject: Re: WHERE'S FRANK?   

Ergon wrote:
...
I can see why Bully, er, Bill Williams felt the urgent need to issue ANOTHER threat of legal action, er, warning of possible liability, etc. ...


Who is this "Bill Williams" character?

When reading his posts on the JREF, you can almost hear him drooling saliva all over his keyboard at the very prospect of seeing someone from this site sued for the 'sin' of making a fair comment on a matter of public concern.

He clearly hasn't the first clue about tort law, which, for a lay person, is no sin, however, I can't begin to imagine why he cannot see the painfully obvious factual distinctions to be drawn between the cases he loves to refer to (Lesher and, now, Simoes), on the one hand, and the good faith comments I've seen on PMF, on the other.

In the Simoes case, the accused created a "phony dating profile" of the victim, sent "lewd sexual emails to her employer" and "propositioned her colleagues with falsehoods that she was transgendered...".

Did any member of PMF create a "phony dating profile" for Knox or Sollecito?

Has any member of PMF sent "lewd sexual emails" replete with propositions and falsehoods about gender/ orientation to any of the associates of K or S while purporting to be K or S?

Either "Bill Williams" is sitting on proof that someone at PMF has engaged in that kind of criminal conduct or he's a complete fool unwittingly engaged in the same kind of loose talk that he claims to abhor.

The mental lapse "Bill" appears to be suffering from is also on display in connection with his repeated references to the Lesher case (I wasn't going to mention this because I wanted to see how long "Bill" was going to keep citing the Lesher case in his tagline on the JREF - evidently, "Bill" has not been made aware of the fact that a judge tossed out the jury's ridiculously inflated $13.8M verdict in favor of the Leshers waaaaaay back in June).

FYI, the Leshers were charged with and prosecuted for serious crimes because of false/ defamatory accusations leveled against them (under oath) by the same woman that is alleged to have been posting (with the help of some of her close associates) the same false/ defamatory accusations online. Is "Bill" under the impression that Knox and Sollectio were charged and prosecuted pursuant to a campaign of false/ defamatory accusations, in court and online, by a member of PMF?!

Further, the defamatory posts aimed at the Leshers began 4 months BEFORE they were even indicted! Is "Bill" under the impression that PMF existed BEFORE Knox and Sollectio were indicted?! (HINT for "Bill": the first post on PMF is dated Dec. 24, 2008, more than a full year AFTER K & S were arrested on Nov. 6, 2007, and subsequently indicted.)

Accordingly, I have yet to see a poster on PMF purporting to post a 'fact' that had not already been:

a) alleged by police and/or prosecutors;
b) found by a judge; and/or
c) published/ broadcast by a reputable journalist.

The Leshers' accusers, on the other hand, were not posting comments and opinions based on facts first alleged by police and prosecutors, found by judges, and/or published/ broadcast by journalists - on the contrary, they were, without benefit of a single police report, court document or news publication/broadcast, claiming that the Leshers had STD's and had engaged in criminal conduct including: theft, drug trafficking, incest, rape, sex with animals and attempted murder.

When "Bill" proves that someone from PMF made comments about K or S vis-à-vis any of those issues/ crimes BEFORE they were arrested/indicted, and BEFORE the supporting facts were alleged by police and prosecutors, found by judges &/or published/ broadcast by reporters, I'll apologize to "Bill" for thinking him a complete fool.

In the meantime, "Bill" ought to consider that at least one person mentioned - by name - in his JREF 'tagline' resides in a jurisdiction that makes it a crime to do what Simoes and the Leshers' accuser(s) did. Is it really "Bill's" intention to suggest that the person he named has committed a criminal code offense?

If "Bill" took his own advice, and spent $400 to $800 dollars an hour to consult with a professional, I'll bet you a week in a Kona jail cell that his JREF tagline would be gone before he left his lawyer's office ;-)


Last edited by Jackie on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi, Jackie. Always delighted to read your posts.

I believe you've just served Bill his ass on a plate. (sorry for stealing The Machine's phrase, yet again. It's a favorite).
I was doing some reading over at IIP or IA or Aye Yi Yi, or whatever they call themselves, and I noticed that they are in agreement that the posters at PMF and TJMK are lacking in "flair'. Well, Bill, don't look now, but I think you've just been flaired. In spades!
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:34 am   Post subject: Re: RE: FRANK SFARZO   

Ergon wrote:
I have just spoken to Bettina personally and heard what she has to say. Basically, she confirms what she has written here and on I-A, and given me the details of what actually happened. I have offered a space to tell her side, in her own words, seeing as how Frank Sfarzo has circulated a letter to his supporters making all sorts of allegations about her.

I take no personal pleasure in this, as if it's about points against 'the other side'. I know there are good people on both sides of the divide who disagree honestly about the outcomes of the various trials. For my part I'd rather act with integrity than 'win' anything. But one thing that angers me is when I see someone being mistreated, and lies to cover up, so I will help any one that needs it.

For now, Bettina needs to recover from what she went through. More than anything else she is disappointed in what she sees as efforts to suppress her voice, but she'll speak for herself here, in a few days when she can organize her thoughts.

I can confirm this for now:

Francesco Sforza was charged with harassment and taken away by the police around November 11. (Bettina/tamale will confirm the exact date when she writes)

She was pushed and the police took pictures of her injuries.

The police would have just escorted him away but he became agitated and threatened to sue them.

He has been in jail for a whole week, and had a court hearing today (Monday 2:30 Hawaiian time)

He was due to leave Hawaii on November 14 but missed it because he's being held pending the hearing.

Haven't heard the outcome yet but Bettina is fine now. She gave a witness statement so didn't even have to appear at the hearing. The police have enough evidence.

He caused a similar situation in Canada and lied to the police, so they seized his passport. It was only due to the intervention of his supporters in Seattle that they released his papers and let him return.

He blames all his problems on the prosecutor, Mignini. Bettina did not even know the details of the charges against him in Perugia, but asks, "when this happens so often, how can people not see what he's like?"

I will update when I have further news, and Bettina will write more when she can.


~Ergon


Hi Ergon,

On IIP, Bruce Fisher denies Frank Sfarzo was or is being held in jail in Hawai. He stated that he is reluctant to discuss the matter on the forum to protect Bettina's personal life to become known. According to Bruce Fisher, this incident can only be discussed exposing "many negative details about Bettina's personal life that come into play".

His latest comments regarding the matter are quoted below:

Bruce Fischer wrote:
Bruce Fischer
Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:46 am
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MichaelB wrote:
wrote:
Yep. I wonder where he is if he's gotta be in court tomorrow? Unless it's Dec 19th?

Bettina alleging he put brusies on her body and the police took photos. She's saying there was a similar incident on his Canada trip also :mad:

I feel sorry for the supporters who have to keep babysitting the bum.



Okay, so you have been talking to Bettina and she has made these claims to you. I have heard the same claims. I have also spoken to Frank and I have heard his version of the story. The two stories are obviously different. I will not be posting Frank's words here (as you have decided to do for Bettina) because there are many negative details about Bettina's personal life that come into play. At this time we are dealing with an argument between two adults that has absolutely nothing to do with this forum or the Meredith Kercher case. This is a he said she said incident for now. I said I was fine with people discussing this case if they had factual information to offer. This forum will not become a rumor mill directed at 2 members of this group.

I will tell you that I know who Frank was staying with in Canada and the incident was nothing like Bettina as allegedly described above. An older gentleman had a bit too much to drink and there was an argument. Happens all the time, all over the world. Its not news to anyone unless you are trying to smear someone PMF style.

If evidence is presented showing that Frank harassed or was violent to Bettina in any way, he will have absolutely no support from me. Same goes for Bettina. If evidence is presented showing that Bettina harassed or was violent to Frank in any way, she will have no support from me.

That's where this stands. If anyone has factual information please discuss it. If you have more gossip or personal opinions of members of this group then kindly keep that to yourself.


Bruce Fischer wrote:
Bruce Fischer
Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:36 am
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Just so we don't blow all of this out or proportion either way. I have now learned that Bettina stated to the police that she was not hurt during the argument. If it turns out that Frank is guilty of a crime it will be a misdemeanor. Basically a shouting match in a hotel. I am not condoning the behavior and I do understand how painful verbal abuse can be. At this point I think both parties may have equally participated in this behavior. I doubt any documentation will be available until after the hearing (tomorrow). Until then I don't think I will have any more information to add.

No matter how this plays out, it is a minor incident that will have no effect on anything to do with the Meredith Kercher case or IIP. It will do absolutely nothing to diminish Bettina and Frank's contributions to the case discussion in the past.

This forum is open for discussion and we do everything possible to provide information when we can. I am now confident that Bettina's comments unrelated to the Hawaii argument were said out of anger and have no merit. To my knowledge, no one in our community has been wronged by Frank. Frank has been honest and forthcoming with our group from the beginning and he has our ongoing support until we are presented with information that suggests we should change our position.



Quote:
Bruce Fischer
Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:41 pm
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Clive Wismayer wrote:
Bruce Fischer wrote:
Ergon is talking to Bettina. He claims it is has nothing to do with us, he just wants to help someone in need. The guy has absolutely no credibility. What a pathetic excuse for a human being.

Anyway, the details are all wrong. Bettina could not remember what day the incident occurred so she will have to get back to Ergon on that. I find that strange.

Bettina said Frank was in jail all week awaiting his hearing. That is false. I have been talking to Frank and know he is not in jail. He is in a hotel using the hotel computer to communicate with me. Not Jail. So the misinformation continues to flow as usual from .net.

I have obtained the police report and the charge is a misdemeanor harassment charge. They offered Frank a deal to plead guilty to the minor charge and pay $100 fine but Frank refused. He wants the truth to prevail.

We will not be posting any documents until the hearing has concluded. There is no reason to give PMF information they can use to harass those involved. Bettina may very well offer that information but we certainly will not.

I am disappointed that Bettina has decided to go to PMF to tell her story. I find that behavior to be highly suspect.


So, a storm in a teacup that some, for a variety of reasons, want to trade up into some kind of major incident as if it has any bearing on anything with which this forum is or dot nut should be concerned with. Ergon cannot contain his glee. Like you, I wonder what Bettina hoped to accomplish by going over there.



According to Frank, he and Bettina had an argument, Bettina became angry and threw some luggage at him in the hotel room and was violent toward him. She told him she was going to call the police and say he was beating her. He said go ahead. Bettina called the police in the hotel room with Frank in the room with her. If Frank pushed her out of the room (as Bettina claims in her police statement) then how did she call the police from inside the room? If Frank was being violent then why was the call placed from the room Frank was in? Wouldn't it have been more logical for Bettina to go to the front desk to get help if Frank pushed her? Why go back in the room? Additionally, wouldn't Frank have tried to prevent that call if he was being violent as Bettina suggests?

Bettina's story doesn't add up. Her behavior after the incident is suspect as well. She took Frank's phone when he was taken to the police station and she contacted everyone on his phone's contact list to tell them Frank was a fraud and now the entire world would know. Is this normal behavior from someone that was just assaulted? Sounds vindictive to me.

It is disappointing to have to post this information about a member here but I feel its necessary now that Bettina has decided to spread misinformation about the incident.

This is nothing more than an argument between two adults that got out of hand. The small fine ($100) suggested by the court is proof of that.



Fun fact: Bruce Fischer has written a total of 1328 posts and 544 of them have been published commenting in the "Today over at PMF"-thread. Fascinating!
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Talk about the irony, of a man still involved as an accused of murdering a female in an ongoing murder trial process, engaging openly online with someone who turns out to to be an abuser too!

I fear, for all of Mr Frank's ranting on about cowards who are too afraid to go online with their real names (which, anonimity of course, is a usual practice for most people, considering the way abuse is so rife online) in the end, was never going under his own real name, I mean where in the world has there ever been a piece of documentation showing his real name? As far as I know, nowhere, but on the other hand, though the police, etc, may have been busy, Dott. Mignini never mentioned anyone, I mean Frank, by full name, and as far as I know, neither did anyone else, and Mr High & Mighty reporter Pisa for instance and others like him, did any one of them ever say, could you show us some ID, nope I don't think so, so methinks Mr Con Artist, is as slippery as an eel and as batty as a bat.


Well, for all of their joking and cussing and mocking those trying to do their jobs, what now with Frankus in jailus in Hawaii-us, it won't be like the Italian prisons, after all looking at Perugia, many might be pleased to be locked up there with no more worries about paying the rent and bills and having nothing in the fridge (Frank) and entertainment too, what more do you want? No, in American prisons Frank may become someone's - what is popularly known as - bitch, and this will be no joke, as this is the situation in American prisons, let's see how he laughs then with chum Sollecito about Italian Dachau-like prisons.

He'll have something to whine about when he gets sold in prison to lifer Tubs Scarface Brown in cell 23 a.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Anyway, my take on these things is, I know nothing about it, and anyone who is a member of a site supporting Knox I cannot permit myself to trust until I see hard facts.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
Anyway, my take on these things is, I know nothing about it, and anyone who is a member of a site supporting Knox I cannot permit myself to trust until I see hard facts.


C'mon Zorba. Try to keep up, will you? Bruce has spoken. The whole thing hasn't happened/happened but wasn't Frank's fault/happened but not the way Bettina's saying/may have happened to two other people/happened but it's all ERGON'S fault.

Got that? hbc)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Anyway, my take on these things is, I know nothing about it, and anyone who is a member of a site supporting Knox I cannot permit myself to trust until I see hard facts.


C'mon Zorba. Try to keep up, will you? Bruce has spoken. The whole thing hasn't happened/happened but wasn't Frank's fault/happened but not the way Bettina's saying/may have happened to two other people/happened but it's all ERGON'S fault.

Got that? hbc)



Well, I pride myself on never once having visited any of those sites, not really, not this one with this person Bruce, never read it, I did look at something to do with Sfarzo, on a site supposedly belonging to him, looked the other day after seeing a link but I always feel ill when I read the stuff people like that say, I do not take them seriously, and am not into being a glutton for punishment, I just could never keep up with all of that.

This site supposedly belonging to Sfarzo, well, it's insane how it's all written by him in good English, then when you see a blog post by him elsewhere, it's crap English. Basically, I do not doubt at all that those doing that (running that site supposedly owned & written by him) for him have the codes to everything supposedly belonging to him.

I too looked at the Hawaiian court site portals but couldn't find anything about him which leads me not to think Bettina isn't being straight up but that Sfarzo is not Sfarzo, he has never revealed his real name. That's why it will not/may not be possible to find him, I did some searches, ''Italian arrested'' bla bla, also nothing.
Which in turn means nothing and says nothing as not everything gets published.


I will do some searches aimed at media traffic in Italy, ''Grandmother died then grandson failed to tell anyone, kept her in her house and plundered her bank account(s) cashing in her pension money, it was only when a neighbour's dog kept snuffling there like he had rabies that passers by called the police. The grandson refused to let them in and started saying he'd take them to court ''just you wait and see'', whereupon he was shoved into a pair of handcuffs and transported off to police headquarters screaming like an 8-year-old girl. Officers entering the premises noticed a rotten smell and proceeded to the source, leading them up into the attic where they found said deceased, the beloved grandmother dissolving in a barrel of acid."

Mr Frank said, "No comment, I will take you all to court and it will be my pension you pigs."
He then demanded to call his lawyer a one Mr Bruce in the Americas.
On and on he went demanding that they release him immediately before he sues their asses and
furthermore that a prize ought to be given in his name.

He made lots of friends, everyone loved him and they all lived happily ever after.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:41 pm   Post subject: MORE FRANKISMS   

Oh, yeah? sez I to all and sundry at IIP. All I did was post Bettina's statement and conversation with me. And thanks! to IIP for confirming everything, including no, he isn't in jail. Clearly he's not, since he's posting chirpy comments on his website. But yes, there's a harassment charge, and ticket, which he refuses to pay.

The Kona police department would not confirm one way or the other that Francesco Sforza (real name) had been arrested/charged.
They told me the place to check would be Kona county court which might eventually post it on a website once the hearing would be disposed of. If it's a simple misdemeanor/fine then who knows, but I'll check back.

What gets me is implied threats about Bettina's personal life being released. What's that got to do with anything?
Second, yes, the Canadian incident was with Peter Hoemberg, Frank's host. Bettina is his friend, so that's how we know about that story. And Bruce's naming him as "having too much to drinK" sounds a bit like about revealing Bettina's personal life. Where did we hear that before? Attacks on her credibility?
Third, it's about patterns. Abuse, and cover up. And enabling. Who went to the Canadian police from Seattle and spoke on his behalf then?

But thanks for confirming the basic facts. Kona is a small place off the beaten track. It would have been a simple matter of just cautioning the foreign tourist and getting him off the island, but he got obstreperous with the local police. Where did we hear that before?

Or that Ergon is to blame? ;)

For the rest, I'll let Bettina tell her side.
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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
I too looked at the Hawaiian court site portals but couldn't find anything about him which leads me not to think Bettina isn't being straight up but that Sfarzo is not Sfarzo, he has never revealed his real name.


Frank Sfarzo is not his real name and I'll wager never has been anything other than a pen name, probably made up on 1 November 2007. I wonder if Bettina is reading this, can she tell us if she booked the plane ticket for Frank? If so, she'd have his legal name and therefore the name he would have been detained under.

It is amusing to read the IA/IIP/whateverthehellitscalledthisweek threads today. I actually feel sorry for Bruce for his naivety with "Frank". Frank is a charlatan and has been since he switched his allegiance right at the start because Chris Mellas and not Steph Kercher wanted to be his friend. That on its own tells you everything that you need to know about the man.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

daisysteiner wrote:
zorba wrote:
I too looked at the Hawaiian court site portals but couldn't find anything about him which leads me not to think Bettina isn't being straight up but that Sfarzo is not Sfarzo, he has never revealed his real name.


Frank Sfarzo is not his real name and I'll wager never has been anything other than a pen name, probably made up on 1 November 2007. I wonder if Bettina is reading this, can she tell us if she booked the plane ticket for Frank? If so, she'd have his legal name and therefore the name he would have been detained under.

It is amusing to read the IA/IIP/whateverthehellitscalledthisweek threads today. I actually feel sorry for Bruce for his naivety with "Frank". Frank is a charlatan and has been since he switched his allegiance right at the start because Chris Mellas and not Steph Kercher wanted to be his friend. That on its own tells you everything that you need to know about the man.


Wouldn't mind placing a bet that if Uncle Frank isn't in prigione he is busy looking up elderly women to give him private Hula Dance lessons, where he will swiftly wrap up the family valuables and get outta der.

If perhaps in prigoni, he will be ranting on at anyone who gets within earshot that the Seattle League has a battleship on it's way "then you'll all see who is boss of the whole wide world."
I have friend (that's how he says things like this = I have friend in high place, when he's trying to sound so powerful) in high place, just you wait, a judge, lawyer and the FBI.

He adds: Listen Mrs Bongiorno, get onto your people, get Vella Dova to order the judge in Seattle to personally see to it that a chauffeur driven limousine is here promptly to remove me from this Bergen Belsen hell hole, but not driven by the drunken Seattle lawyer please, do you hear? It's simply unacceptable and obviously the police in Perugia set me up, they made me leave Perugia to go voyaging off around the globe first stop Seattle, second stop a few yards over the Canadian border, do it, do it now, I shall not stand for it and will be seeing you, your mother, your brother, your uncle, your hamster, your dog and your picollissimo baby sister in court, where you shall all pay my pension in full and I hope you own castles, if I do not get my way I shall tell on you all. Cease and desist tell these thugs to open the gates and have my car ready!!!

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Later King Frank stands on the bridge of the Seattle ship that came out with it's nuclear weapons a-blazin' to threaten Hawaii,

cuddlin' up to Hampi Kan, Brucio & Preston dressed in one of his finest aunt Mavis Hawaii shirts,

flowers so many that anyone would think they were all going to San Francisco,

which Frank swears to this day was written all about him,
15 years before he was born,

.... it was like YMCA all over again,


"this ''is'' a fine cigar," exclaims Frank,

All da jocks and not a female in sight except deckhand Mrs Mellas to boost morale among the ''young'' sailors!

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

In the meantime, I'm happy to hear that nobody was permanently or seriously injured.
Sadly, that is not always the case.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon, above you said:

Quote:
I take no personal pleasure in this, as if it's about points against 'the other side'. I know there are good people on both sides of the divide who disagree honestly about the outcomes of the various trials. For my part I'd rather act with integrity than 'win' anything. But one thing that angers me is when I see someone being mistreated, and lies to cover up, so I will help any one that needs it.



I agree totally with this. I don't believe that everyone on the other side of the fence knew about this, nor will they condone any sort of abuse if it turns out to be the case.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Ergon, above you said:

Quote:
I take no personal pleasure in this, as if it's about points against 'the other side'. I know there are good people on both sides of the divide who disagree honestly about the outcomes of the various trials. For my part I'd rather act with integrity than 'win' anything. But one thing that angers me is when I see someone being mistreated, and lies to cover up, so I will help any one that needs it.



I agree totally with this. I don't believe that everyone on the other side of the fence knew about this, nor will they condone any sort of abuse if it turns out to be the case.



Mmm, I have a different idea about all of that, if there are so-called good people on the other so-called side I certainly have not seen a single one of them.

To me there are no sides.

There is truth. And there is those who do not keep to truth in any way.

I still do not call that sides.
There is Meredith dead and there are people being dishonest.

They have nothing to do with me, or with the truth, and I would define these concepts in an entirely different way, or place it in an entirely different framework.

I'm not in a competition and neither are those that are in the name of the law busy trying to get justice for Meredith and her family.

Talking about sides and stupid non-existent words, as in, not real language, but made up with the intention to sow hatred, like guilters, words made up by true simpletons as well, makes it or turns it into a game, it is not a competition and being pulled into behaving as if it is, is yet another dirty trick used by dirty-minded people who don't have a shred of decency in them.

There are the accused, there is the prosecution, and then there is the defence, it's not a competition and it is not a game.

The rest is an aside, what's important is seeing to it that the law reigns strong, and that those guilty of murdering Meredith in cold blood are found guilty, punished and not allowed to play around with charlatans like Sfarzo and act like they are some kind of star as Sollecito is doing right now.

If there is one fake person in all of this it is him (Solecito), but he is not the only one.

There are real people with minds willing to be truthful and to absorb facts and reason them out without all of that falsification of facts, and then there are those with the sole aim of falsification, and protecting some misguided blind sense of national pride which Knox's people have been using as a tool to play to these lower patriotic sensitivities, or rather lack of sensitivity and instead encourage fear-mindedness, where everything is reduced to something primitive like which bit of the planet you happened to get born on. Pride???? that pride is meaningless, you cannot be proud about happening to get born on a chunk of the planet, if you make a good thing then you can be proud of it, I hate small-minded nationalists.

Knox's (my) people have reduced everything to a game, a competition, to a racist, xenophobic exercise, not only against Lumumba, not only using Guede that way, but also by reducing the Italians to a bunch of cave people, because this seems to be the way Americans in Seattle choose to think about people in Italy, all because of the dishonesty spread around by Knox's family and supporters.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Ergon, above you said:

Quote:
I take no personal pleasure in this, as if it's about points against 'the other side'. I know there are good people on both sides of the divide who disagree honestly about the outcomes of the various trials. For my part I'd rather act with integrity than 'win' anything. But one thing that angers me is when I see someone being mistreated, and lies to cover up, so I will help any one that needs it.



I agree totally with this. I don't believe that everyone on the other side of the fence knew about this, nor will they condone any sort of abuse if it turns out to be the case.



Mmm, I have a different idea about all of that, if there are so-called good people on the other sdo-called side I certainly have not seen a single one of them.


I ran into a few of them when I was posting on Huffington Post. While it was a frustrating endeavor, one or two of them never resorted to personal attacks. On me, anyway. They and I totally disagree on this case, and we left it at that.
I have never read the private, member-only board, as I am not a member, so I can't speak for their private comments,
but publicly, only my opinions were discussed.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:52 pm   Post subject: Re: RE: FRANK SFARZO   

Bruce Fischer said:

Quote:
I have obtained the police report and the charge is a misdemeanor harassment charge. They offered Frank a deal to plead guilty to the minor charge and pay $100 fine but Frank refused. He wants the truth to prevail.


Now, that's funny. He refused to pay $100 fine in order for the truth to prevail? What else could a totally crazy, belligerent, sore loser do? It seems more likely to have to do with his insolvency; in other words, he didn't have any money and couldn't come up with $100. And he said he was going to sue? If you can't pay the court fees, shut up and leave the island.

So who is footing the hotel bill in Hawaii? Joseph Bishop? ;)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Ergon, above you said:

Quote:
I take no personal pleasure in this, as if it's about points against 'the other side'. I know there are good people on both sides of the divide who disagree honestly about the outcomes of the various trials. For my part I'd rather act with integrity than 'win' anything. But one thing that angers me is when I see someone being mistreated, and lies to cover up, so I will help any one that needs it.



I agree totally with this. I don't believe that everyone on the other side of the fence knew about this, nor will they condone any sort of abuse if it turns out to be the case.



Mmm, I have a different idea about all of that, if there are so-called good people on the other sdo-called side I certainly have not seen a single one of them.


I ran into a few of them when I was posting on Huffington Post. While it was a frustrating endeavor, one or two of them never resorted to personal attacks. On me, anyway. They and I totally disagree on this case, and we left it at that.
I have never read the private, member-only board, as I am not a member, so I can't speak for their private comments,
but publicly, only my opinions were discussed.




Oh yes, I see, on some newspaper forums you could get some who have nothing to do with the fanatics, and have an opinion, yes, but on the sites run by the folk such as Bruce and the Sfarzo thing I cannot imagine many ordinary people hanging around there for long.

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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
tamale wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
I'm personally curious about why he's still in jail, if he is, and not out on bail. No money? No friends to post it?

Precisely why I am telling the world. Friends will not help. However, some of them were generous to share their own disappointment. I will tell no stories. I will speak about what occured in Hawaii. The truth is good enough. Yes I am Bettina, using fake screen names because I did not want drama. I did not wish to be public....


First things first. Are you OK? Are you safe?

I am battered and bruied. I am ok because I am strong and totaly blameless.. thanks
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:19 pm   Post subject: Re: RE: FRANK SFARZO   

guermantes wrote:
Bruce Fischer said:

Quote:
I have obtained the police report and the charge is a misdemeanor harassment charge. They offered Frank a deal to plead guilty to the minor charge and pay $100 fine but Frank refused. He wants the truth to prevail.


Now, that's funny. He refused to pay $100 fine in order for the truth to prevail? What else could a totally crazy, belligerent, sore loser do? It seems more likely to have to do with his insolvency; in other words, he didn't have any money and couldn't come up with $100. And he said he is going to sue? If you can't pay the court fees, shut up and leave the island.

So who is footing the hotel bill in Hawaii? Joseph Bishop? ;)



Well Preston gets his shirts there maybe he has broken open his piggy bank for one of the Italians he oh so very much loves...
breakfast New York, lunch in Italy with a good bottle of bla bla bla, dinner with his mom who irons his shirts

the bit about bottle of good bla bla bla really got me, he who cannot even go to Italy talking about lunch there and talking too like he is some kind of wine expert, let's face it he eats Kentucky fried C in a bucket, no plates a bucket like a hog, with wine from a carton, in fact the cat doesn't even like wine, he likes pretending he is some high flying great writer.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Did you book Frank's ticket Tamale?

or I mean, direct question,

do you know his real name?

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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

daisysteiner wrote:
zorba wrote:
I too looked at the Hawaiian court site portals but couldn't find anything about him which leads me not to think Bettina isn't being straight up but that Sfarzo is not Sfarzo, he has never revealed his real name.


Frank Sfarzo is not his real name and I'll wager never has been anything other than a pen name, probably made up on 1 November 2007. I wonder if Bettina is reading this, can she tell us if she booked the plane ticket for Frank? If so, she'd have his legal name and therefore the name he would have been detained under.

It is amusing to read the IA/IIP/whateverthehellitscalledthisweek threads today. I actually feel sorry for Bruce for his naivety with "Frank". Frank is a charlatan and has been since he switched his allegiance right at the start because Chris Mellas and not Steph Kercher wanted to be his friend. That on its own tells you everything that you need to know about the man.

Francesco Sforza the real name. In Kona he was arrested under the name Frank Sforca which is why no info has been uncovered
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

tamale wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
tamale wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
I'm personally curious about why he's still in jail, if he is, and not out on bail. No money? No friends to post it?

Precisely why I am telling the world. Friends will not help. However, some of them were generous to share their own disappointment. I will tell no stories. I will speak about what occured in Hawaii. The truth is good enough. Yes I am Bettina, using fake screen names because I did not want drama. I did not wish to be public....


First things first. Are you OK? Are you safe?

I am battered and bruied. I am ok because I am strong and totaly blameless.. thanks


Hi, tamale. Glad to hear it. Since you've chosen my posts to respond to, I'd like to ask a question.
I see that Ergon has given the OK to post your story here, and, if you choose to, fine by me, no worries, but I'd like to ask if you've truly thought about it. It worries me that you are possibly about to release what amounts to a 'shitstorm' on yourself. Are you comfortable with this venue? I'd personally hate to see one more person being turned into grist for the mill in the continuing Knox narrative. If you're good with this, then have at it.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
Did you book Frank's ticket Tamale?

or I mean, direct question,

do you know his real name?

I booked his ticket with 4 days notice. I scrambled to make him comfortable. I saw his name on his passport and he told me before I booked the ticket. Sfarzo....
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Offline The Machine


Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:43 pm

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Anyway, my take on these things is, I know nothing about it, and anyone who is a member of a site supporting Knox I cannot permit myself to trust until I see hard facts.


C'mon Zorba. Try to keep up, will you? Bruce has spoken. The whole thing hasn't happened/happened but wasn't Frank's fault/happened but not the way Bettina's saying/may have happened to two other people/happened but it's all ERGON'S fault.

Got that? hbc)



Bettina's account tallies with the police's account of his arrest in Perugia after his sister called them and it also tallies with the account of another woman who alleges that Frank was drunk and violent.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I would also like to get Peter Hoemberg's own account of what happened since Bruce Fischer's posting of 'older gentleman who had too much to drink, there was an argument, and just happened to fall down" seems a bit ad hoc ;) to the present set of circumstances. As he has already confirmed, Frank got into trouble in Canada, and he only wanted the matter settled between Frank and Bettina "privately".

Now Frank's in trouble in Hawaii as well. Hokay.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Independently from what exactly happened between Bettina and Frank, I believe Bruce Fischer's comments regarding that matter are most revealing. One can infer that every abusive behaviour can be simply dismissed as "no biggie" as long as it is "only" resulting in a misdemeanor and no one was (physically) hurt. So following BF's logic, each incident is not worth of note, because no criminal charges were laid and therefore they have to be dismissed as irrelevant as a whole. It is also hard to miss how BF makes an attempt to put the blame for Sfarzo's behaviour on the victims of the various incidents to minimise the damage on Frank Sfarzo's (Francesco Sforza) reputation.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

The Machine wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Anyway, my take on these things is, I know nothing about it, and anyone who is a member of a site supporting Knox I cannot permit myself to trust until I see hard facts.


C'mon Zorba. Try to keep up, will you? Bruce has spoken. The whole thing hasn't happened/happened but wasn't Frank's fault/happened but not the way Bettina's saying/may have happened to two other people/happened but it's all ERGON'S fault.

Got that? hbc)



Bettina's account tallies with the police's account of his arrest in Perugia after his sister called them and it also tallies with the account of another woman who alleges that Frank was drunk and violent.



Yes, I agree. I am also reminded of his intervention resulting in the macabre photo of Deanne and Ashley Knox in front of the cottage where Meredith Kercher had been murdered. He uses people to his own advantage, no matter how hurtful the outcome is to others.

Now we have one story more to add to his long list of failures.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

tamale wrote:
zorba wrote:
Did you book Frank's ticket Tamale?

or I mean, direct question,

do you know his real name?

I booked his ticket with 4 days notice. I scrambled to make him comfortable. I saw his name on his passport and he told me before I booked the ticket. Sfarzo....


Hi tamale,

Did you pay for his tickets, or could he afford them? Are you saying Francesco Sforza uses the name Frank Sfarzo in his passport? How is that possible and why has he been arrested and booked in Kona under yet another name, "Frank Sforca"?
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Thank you Bettina.
Much appreciated

What Napia says, I agree with, what's most important is your safety, and we here know that those people, including Frank, do not play fairly, so keep well out of their way, and only say what you want to here, and if you need help, you can also do it by asking certain people here in private, for any advice, whatever you like. Whatever you feel comfortable with, you can choose to stay nothing at all too, and then we will stop asking you questions. However I would'nt mind knowing a couple of things.

If you don't mind me asking, I was just wondering where you had such bad luck to run into Sfarzo, are you yourself Italian?
Many of us here have been witnessing his most tasteless and cruel deeds since the first days after Meredith's murder.
There has been no other way of seeing him than that he is very twisted to say and do the things he does, a very peculiar man indeed, not just that, he is plain nasty.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

tamale wrote:
daisysteiner wrote:
zorba wrote:
I too looked at the Hawaiian court site portals but couldn't find anything about him which leads me not to think Bettina isn't being straight up but that Sfarzo is not Sfarzo, he has never revealed his real name.


Frank Sfarzo is not his real name and I'll wager never has been anything other than a pen name, probably made up on 1 November 2007. I wonder if Bettina is reading this, can she tell us if she booked the plane ticket for Frank? If so, she'd have his legal name and therefore the name he would have been detained under.

It is amusing to read the IA/IIP/whateverthehellitscalledthisweek threads today. I actually feel sorry for Bruce for his naivety with "Frank". Frank is a charlatan and has been since he switched his allegiance right at the start because Chris Mellas and not Steph Kercher wanted to be his friend. That on its own tells you everything that you need to know about the man.

Francesco Sforza the real name. In Kona he was arrested under the name Frank Sforca which is why no info has been uncovered



1) By Frank Sforca did you actually mean to write Frank Sfarzo

2) So his real name Frank Sforza and he was arrested under the name most people know him by Frank Sfarzo?

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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

The Machine wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Anyway, my take on these things is, I know nothing about it, and anyone who is a member of a site supporting Knox I cannot permit myself to trust until I see hard facts.


C'mon Zorba. Try to keep up, will you? Bruce has spoken. The whole thing hasn't happened/happened but wasn't Frank's fault/happened but not the way Bettina's saying/may have happened to two other people/happened but it's all ERGON'S fault.

Got that? hbc)



Bettina's account tallies with the police's account of his arrest in Perugia after his sister called them and it also tallies with the account of another woman who alleges that Frank was drunk and violent.

Thanks...I am glad you are connecting the dots.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
tamale wrote:
zorba wrote:
Did you book Frank's ticket Tamale?

or I mean, direct question,

do you know his real name?

I booked his ticket with 4 days notice. I scrambled to make him comfortable. I saw his name on his passport and he told me before I booked the ticket. Sfarzo....


Hi tamale,

Did you pay for his tickets, or could he afford them? Are you saying Francesco Sforza uses the name Frank Sfarzo in his passport? How is that possible and why has he been arrested and booked in Kona under yet another name, "Frank Sforca"?

pardon...Sforza on passport. Arrested under name Sforca......exhausted
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

By the way, Nell, glad to see you back!
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

tamale wrote:
Nell wrote:
tamale wrote:
zorba wrote:
Did you book Frank's ticket Tamale?

or I mean, direct question,

do you know his real name?

I booked his ticket with 4 days notice. I scrambled to make him comfortable. I saw his name on his passport and he told me before I booked the ticket. Sfarzo....


Hi tamale,

Did you pay for his tickets, or could he afford them? Are you saying Francesco Sforza uses the name Frank Sfarzo in his passport? How is that possible and why has he been arrested and booked in Kona under yet another name, "Frank Sforca"?

pardon...Sforza on passport. Arrested under name Sforca......exhausted

Hi Tamale I can tell that being victimized and them having that awful experience used against you by past supporters has gotten to you. Please do yourself a favour and spend time with some good friends not associated with this case. You obviously need support and time to recover. Best of luck
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Yes I agree, try to get some rest Bettina, that must be awful, don't communicare anymore with any of those people.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Saul Kassin is a member of a panel discussion in New York recently, to discuss the movie, "The Central Park Five".

No mention of other cases.

http://www.eyeforfilm.co.uk/feature/201 ... trin-titze
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
By the way, Nell, glad to see you back!


Thank you, Napia!
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
Thank you Bettina.
Much appreciated

What Napia says, I agree with, what's most important is your safety, and we here know that those people, including Frank, do not play fairly, so keep well out of their way, and only say what you want to here, and if you need help, you can also do it by asking certain people here in private, for any advice, whatever you like. Whatever you feel comfortable with, you can choose to stay nothing at all too, and then we will stop asking you questions. However I would'nt mind knowing a couple of things.

If you don't mind me asking, I was just wondering where you had such bad luck to run into Sfarzo, are you yourself Italian?
Many of us here have been witnessing his most tasteless and cruel deeds since the first days after Meredith's murder.
There has been no other way of seeing him than that he is very twisted to say and do the things he does, a very peculiar man indeed, not just that, he is plain nasty.

I am an american of Italian descent... He hides his cruel deeds....his online persona is very different from the abusive troll that flew to my Island. I just sent my story to Ergon and he will post it. Thanks for giving me a forum to speak. The truth is good enough.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:50 am   Post subject: FRANK SFARZO   

I am posting the following statement from Bettina, who has had a very rough time indeed, and still is being harassed by Frank. Bettina spoke to the public defender to go easy on him, just to get him off the Island, but he is now staying there and threatening to sue her. She lives in a remote part of the island, with spotty phone and internet access, so asked me to post this on her behalf. I spoke to her again this morning, and confirmed a great deal of very sad details which I will follow up with in my next post.

Message subject: from my lips

"In a hotel room, in Kona HI......Frank had spent the entire day berating me, yelling at me and insulting me, and denying me entrance to the room I reserved and paid for. My Hawaiian sista came to the hotel and wanted to know where his stuff was. She was going to get rid of him for me. I agreed to give F another chance to be civil and enjoy the beauty of Hawaii. He continued to sulk and refused to communicate. He stayed away until 1am, at which time I told him I would like to take him to the airport. After 5 days of mistreatment...I was done. I told him I was not kidding and when I approached the door of the hotel with our belongings, he flew off the bed, pushed me to the ground in the hall, grabbed his suitcase, attempted to lock me in the hall.

I called the front desk and they called the police. When the police arrived they spoke to us seperate.
I quietly told the police I was just trying to have a good time...
He screamed something at the officer in the hall. When they came into the room, Frank was screaming at the police. He threatened to sue them. I think that made them mad, because the turned to me and said they would take him if I wanted. Confused and wounded, I looked at Frank. He was still yelling at me (in front of the cops), so I gave them the nod. Within seconds he was handcuffed and being escorted from the room. However, he made things worse by his continued outbursts. The police officer then reached into Franks pocket and removed his cell phone...handing it to me.
I spent a sleepless nite calling people I did not know to assist. Many had their own stories to relate...but did not want their name used. I was prepared to call the prosecuting attorney to arrange a way off the island for F as a condition of the charges being dropped. In the mean time, some nice soul read Franks secret letter to IIP. His relationship to the truth is not steadfast and I learned of lies he told to once again make him the hero martyr. I stand by my words."
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:12 am   Post subject: BETTINA'S ORIGINAL PM TO ME   

Shortly after I came across Bettina's story on the Injustice In Perugia website (before Bruce Fischer deleted it) and posted it here, PMF member tamale wrote to me and asked for help in publishing her side. I wrote back asking her to confirm she was Bettina (and therefore had first hand knowledge of the matter) and here is her reply, in her own words.

tamale
Message subject: Re: frank Sent: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:31 pm Folder: Inbox

"That is affirmative...I am Bettina. I live far in the jungle with scant internet connection. In fact it is almost impossible on this volcano. I live totally on solar power. I can charge my computer when I drive.

Franks mistook my kindness for weakness. I was pushed to the ground when I suggested we end the visti and I drive him to airport. When the police arrived he threatened to sue them and that pissed off the island boys. They offered to take him away...I looked at Frank and he was still yelling at me, so I gave the nod. He made it so easy. My bruises have been photographed.

He could have shut up, but he writes private letters defaming me. There were lies in the letter. People are blaming me (don't care) and trying to protect F. F had his passport seized in Canada for telling false hoods to border agents. The Knox family thinks he is icky and a user. He was escorted from a canadian hosts house for the same abuse, except the host is an man of age. F told the police he was molested by his generous benefactor. Shameful.

F caused this and no one else. We have been gracious friends, tirelessly seeing to details, while F defamed so many of his supporters. His treatment to me was punishing (all the time). He would do well to shut up...the truth is good enough. He will only dig a bigger hole for himself.

Bettina is a screen name. I do not want to be involved in anything that is not my own experience or personal knowledge. As for Sforza (his real name) Sfarzogate...there was no cigar."
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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

tamale wrote:
The Machine wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Anyway, my take on these things is, I know nothing about it, and anyone who is a member of a site supporting Knox I cannot permit myself to trust until I see hard facts.


C'mon Zorba. Try to keep up, will you? Bruce has spoken. The whole thing hasn't happened/happened but wasn't Frank's fault/happened but not the way Bettina's saying/may have happened to two other people/happened but it's all ERGON'S fault.

Got that? hbc)



Bettina's account tallies with the police's account of his arrest in Perugia after his sister called them and it also tallies with the account of another woman who alleges that Frank was drunk and violent.

Thanks...I am glad you are connecting the dots.


I've known for years that Frank is a liar. He boasted that he knew how to tell "bullshits" and lied about his profession to Jonathan Martin from The Seattle Times. His sister and an ex-partner have alleged that Frank was violent towards them. I'm waiting to hear the outcome of his court case in Perugia this week. Incidentally, many groupies blindly supported Anne Bremner after she had been arrested on suspicion of DUI and claimed that she wasn't drunk but was suffering from a brain injury. As we all know, Bremner eventually admitted DUI and was jailed. The truth isn't whatever we want it to be.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:48 am   Post subject: PHONE CALL WITH BETTINA   

I called her back this early in the morning to get an update, but also ask some questions that were raised in my previous call and her statements. The story has blown up and many things have been said about her by Frank on the IIP website. Bettina stands by her words. She does not know if the charges have been dropped yet or not, since she asked the PD to get him off the island. Instead, Frank is staying in a hotel, and so far has sent three threatening texts saying he is going to sue her for defamation. I asked why she didn't report this harassment to the police and she says she's living in an isolated community and the whole thing has been such a burden to her all she wants is no further problems and just get him away from her. But, since he circulated a letter about her to his supporters containing many falsehoods she decided to tell her side and let honesty be her defense.

This is what she said, which I post with her permission. If she sees any discrepancies (it's now 2;30 am :) she'll correct me when she logs on, and I've encouraged her to write the rest in her own words directly in the main thread. She'll also answer questions as they come up. She made it clear she does not wish to harm anyone, many who have quietly told her their own stories of being abused by Frank, but also, pleaded with her to keep their names out of it.

She wonders why he was charged in Perugia. When I tell her about the reported charges, that it was his mother and sister who called the police, and he got angry with them, she's shocked, saying Frank has been peddling the lie all over that it was PM Mignini who sent them after him for no reason, when it really was a mirror of her own experience with him.

Many people tried to warn her about his misogyny but she wouldn't listen. She missed the celebration Frank had at a big party in Seattle, so she invited him to visit on the Island. Next thing she knows, he's telling her he can be there at short notice, if she can pay for the tickets... which she does, unfortunately, even though she is of limited means.

Frank said that he wanted not to return to Italy and she tried to look up waivers for him, but he was trying to convince her to move to Seattle and marry him. Other women have told her that he tried to come on to them at the party, but most are married so he picked on her. She is not interested. When Frank arrives on the island and realizes how modestly she lives he was upset to realize how she would not be able to help him, and that was when he became abusive, but also rude to her neighbors, who are native Hawaiians. After 5 days of it she took him to a hotel, which she paid for, and later tried to convince him to get on his flight. That is when he attacked her. He tried to say she was drunk yet the cops showed him the bottle and how little had been drunk between the two of them. The cops gave her his phone and wallet for safekeeping, and yes, she did call his friends (some of whom are hers as well) asking for help. Many told her similar stories of his behavior but asked her to keep their names out of it. She also says that some of them (among his best supporters who've given him lots of money) tried to pressure her into keeping it quiet.

But she also confirms, since she said it already, that yes, his Canadian host Peter H and he had a bit to drink, then there was an argument and Peter fell down. Frank lied to the police saying Peter tried to molest him, but the police took his passport away when he lied again about how long they knew each other and Peter would not back that up. His supporters in Seattle had to intervene to get his papers back. Bettina is adamant about this; she has known Peter many years and there is NO way that Frank's wild accusation about attempted molestation is true. Peter tried to warn her about Frank but she wouldn't listen. Yet Peter was one of his biggest supporters and sent him lots of money.

Yes, Chris Mellas did tell her that Frank mooched off their family for months, and asked her to delete Amanda's phone number from his phone, which she refused to do. (This mirrors what Steve Shay told me, that some of Amanda's supporters feel that Judge Heavey's antics do her more harm than good. Unfortunately, Frank shores up their Doug Preston fed myth about big bad Mignini)

Bettina confirms that another woman told her the same thing happened to her, but she got rid of Frank right away. She insists she doesn't want to hurt any one, but has been abused and feels she needs to speak up. He appears to not have any money, but is still staying in a hotel (hopefully only until the matter is unresolved)

She is concerned that Frank might leak personal information about her. She's been told he has embarrassing information about her, but still, wants to tell the truth.

Sadly, this is a pattern of abuse that has long been ignored.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:38 am   Post subject: Re: PHONE CALL WITH BETTINA   

Thank you for keeping us updated on this matter Ergon.

Good for Bettina to stand up for herself.


I do have a direct question for Bettina/tamale: How do you know the Knoxes believe Frank to be "icky and a user"? Did you spoke to them directly or do you know someone who did?

Do you know how many Knox supporters have opened their homes to Frank so far? Including the visits that were aborted after a short time because of his advances?
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

So you met Mr F online Bettina?

I'm supposing this is the case.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Basically,
Frank is a charlatan,
perhaps a heroin user,
or he has used it in the past,
this would explain his particularly heavy attitudes to everything and his nasty streaks,
very usual as a result of hard drug use,
it would be why he goes against his own country,
its citizens
and why he'd rather be in support of people that possibly murdered Meredith
under the influence of hard drugs,
and where he'd support those people
because he too thinks nothing of it to harm others,
to profit from them,
to steal from them,
to physically harm them,
to lie about everything,
in fact, along with the aforesaid,
he could have been one of the very accused in Perugia
fitting exactly into the profile slot,
in that way he is nothing like an objective bystander, more like a participant.

Again, basically,
with a trail of trouble behind him but following him,
also very importantly back home,
where nobody, especially authority, is going to be swallowing this guys con tricks or lies,
and where they will not be into doing him any favours,
preferably seeing him punished for all the things they all know he has been up to,
a pain in the ass,
and so he wants to get married to an American,
which would then, in his mind,
provide him with the means to stay out of Italy
and avoid going to court,
avoid dealing with the trail of trouble behind him,
and in America where he is bound to go to town wherever and on whoever he can,
with the sole aim of getting rich quick, the Knox/Mellas family IS his pension and he's looking for extras wherever he can, in fact, it was only right that Bettina refused to delete Amanda's phone number, as Knox's family, they deserve him, however, surely she can just get a new phone, they are two a penny these days.

if Knox and Sollecito were not bad enough,
the potential for harm that this individual represents is as bad and maybe even worse,
if they were not absolutely calculated, he most definitely is.

I smell a past, one of heroin use, cocaine,
it's part of why he'd go against authority to support Knox and Sollecito.

I've seen hard drug users from close-by and things that are usual to people in usual terms,
like even ordinary to robbers and thieves,
these criminals would be and are shocked by the calibre of bad person they experience
when witnessing what people committing crime
are capable of when those committing it
are addicted to hard drugs,
it's out of the league of ordinary crime/criminals, even if that ordinary crime is very serious crime in comparison with what addicts can get up to under the influence and as a result of the depths to which they sink, at a personal level, through the effects of that hard drug use.

It's quite something to see the abusers, being abused,
the threatening people being threatened and blackmailed
and I do not mean Bettina,
I mean the Knox and Mellases,
they used him and he is and has been trying to use them
so much so that even they are afraid of the guy and feel ill,

as murder is no joke and they've openly made use of this man,
this man as many others, who found the case appealing,
not for any feeling of wanting truth
for Meredith
or caring about Knox and Sollecito
but because the nature of the crimes was and is appealing to all kinds of disturbed people,
one of which, in this case, is Frank.. whatevva his name is.

Basically too, it shows that it was indeed Mellas doing the online dirties and he who had all of the interaction with Frank and so he and Knox's mother who get the grief and the father Knox, knowing these things and having had no contact with Frank, or probably not, has kept out of it and he cannot be threatened by Frank.

It was clear in the past, that Frank hadn't been receiving enough checks
or that the family thought he'd enjoyed enough,
but he thought they ought to to know they were now stuck with him
and he definitely had better be paid or else,
that was when suddenly his blog appeared to switch
and start saying things that would go against Knox,

so he is in fact a BLACKMAILER

Now what we all know is that blackmail is considered to be a very serious crime indeed.

So just keep up the good work Frank,
one place or the other
you are heading for a deep ditch
that you will not be able to get out of
and hopefully it'll be in America where jail means jail,
where jail means
if while inside it you do something else wrong
you just get extra time without even needing for it to be done through a court,
some people ending up in prison there for forever,

and let's see how old Franky boy rants on about how bad things are then,

who will he be able to tell,

he has insulted his own country folk,
his country,
and cried to the Americans,
but what if the Americans slam their justice system down on him,

who will he cry to,

the Australians?

He obviously knows he is in more trouble in Perugia than he would have anyone believe or understand.



1) I'm interested in how Bettina met Frank met

and

2) How the guy in Canada met Frank?
Maybe Bettina met the guy in Canada through the case too

If he gave Frank lots of money then he must have come into contact with Frank via Meredith's murder case.

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

And threatening local Hawaiians????

I mean talk about stretching it, he's playing a dangerous game

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Member KayPea from IIP has been given permission by Frank Sfarzo to post his version publicly and so she did.

KayPea also claims that this matter is about jealousy and other members at IIP also hint to some kind of relationship between Frank and Bettina that goes allegedly further than an average friendship. Only Frank and Bettina know the answer to that.

Here is the full post:

KayPea wrote:
Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:31 am
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Location: Seattle WA

He Said, She Said.

Posted on PMF.

Quote:
Yes I am Bettina, using fake screen names because I did not want drama. I did not wish to be public...."


"I did not want drama. I did not wish to be public" *swearing warning* Bullshit!

Bettina I am hugely disappointed in your behavior. Running straight to PMF to smear Frank? Jeeze woman, YOU knew exactly what you were doing. YOU wanted this mess public. The proof was first by calling all of the peeps in Franks' phone to "ask for help" right after your own behavior (a la "loud fight in hotel room") was front and center, then by posting your rant in this public forum, (YOU, like all longtime posters, KNOW they troll here), then by running right over to PMF and airing dirty laundry when your post was taken down. Specifically to assure privacy until this mess was sorted out. YOU took care of any privacy concerns, didn't you?

btw, of the 'contacted' peeps, only a couple said she actually "asked for help." Others said she was a vindictive scorned woman.

By your own behavior, Bettina, you are proving yourself to be a liar. "I did not wish to be public." Riiiiight. Like anyone believes THAT statement.

Frank is frank. You know this, you have been chatting him up for years, you supported him on Perugia Shock. We ALL know that Frank is not a Casper Milquetoast when it comes to cops or when it comes to speaking his mind. So I'm not going into the personal part of this very public situation, but I do have permission to publicize Frank's version of the fight between you two.

Specifically because it is the reason the cops were called. I asked him to be straight about your fight so that we could all decide what to do. The personal between them will remain, but I can say that "jealousy" played a major role.

What is really sad is that Bettina COULD have counted on our support, but she shot herself in the foot by her own behavior. The irony of what she is doing is not lost on me, either, because I had just finished an article on the mechanics of the Smear Campaign that Mignini used to ensnare the kids. Bettina did exactly the same thing right before my eyes.

The sad part is that none of this was necessary, it could have been handled in-house and only Frank and Bettina's close confidants would have heard the story.

I, obviously, am very suspicious WHY Bettina felt she needed to PUBLICIZE this mess in a way where Frank had no chance of countering her claims. This is defo a Smear Campaign by definition.

Franks' account of the fight.

Quote:
of course, as I already said, I did not beat her or pushed her, on the contrary, as soon as I entered the room she thrown a bag on me, beat me, pushed me and kicked my other bag. This all in an instant. I saw that she was completely out of control so I didn't react and I fell between a bed and the wall, in that moment she thrown my other bag out of the room.

She had told me to have recently reported two men for harassing and for rape, so I definitely avoided any argue.

I went to collect my stuff and I said I was going. That made her more mad and she yelled that she didn't have spent all those money for sleeping alone in a hotel room. Since I didn't answer she threatened me that she would have called the police and tell them that I had beaten her. I told her to go for it. So she was undisturbed in calling the police with me in the room, which by itself proves that no violence there was by my side, otherwise I would have prevented her to call the police, don't you think?

Not even she said that I've beaten her, she said that I've pushed her. She doesn't say why. So I hope she comes to court and tells us WHY should I have pushed her... I instead know WHY she kicked my stuff and assaulted me, stole my stuff, stole the contact information of my friends form my cellphone, disturbed them by telephone, violated our privacy, and I can't wait to tell it to the judge.

You can forward this to the others. I was preparing a total wrap up, but I don't know if people are interested. Maybe they are more interested in Bettina's delusions....



Now you guys have the other side.

Bettina. Walk away from PMF. Own your part of this mess. Go snorkeling when it is all over.


_________________
Mignini è un Bastardo! *peh-tooey*




According to Bruce Fischer, the case has been dismissed.


They make every effort at IIP to portray this as an isolated and unrelated incident that doesn't have any effect on Frank Sfarzo's work supporting Amanda Knox.

What about Bruce Fischer's public smearing of Peter Quennell with claims about sexual harassment and extortion? So apparently "unrelated incidents" only tarnish people's reputation when the Knox groupies agree with it.

I don't know what went on in that hotel room and I don't particularly care, but it is a fact and has been confirmed by numerous sources that Frank is sponging off people, because despite his advanced age he is still not able to fend for himself and I suspect it will never happen. To this he is ungrateful to those who have financially supported him.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:51 pm   Post subject: Re: PHONE CALL WITH BETTINA   

Nell wrote:
Thank you for keeping us updated on this matter Ergon.

Good for Bettina to stand up for herself.


I do have a direct question for Bettina/tamale: How do you know the Knoxes believe Frank to be "icky and a user"? Did you spoke to them directly or do you know someone who did?

Do you know how many Knox supporters have opened their homes to Frank so far? Including the visits that were aborted after a short time because of his advances?


She spoke directly to Chris Mellas at least the one time, when she called on Frank's phone and he asked her to delete Amanda's phone number from it, Nell. The quote I gave was from him, but Bettina can say who called him icky and a user :-)
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

It was just a matter of Frank being frank. We know, like Amanda being Amanda. Got it.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Well Kay Pea may have designed his/her identity in accordance with brain size, I mean, to say something as nasty as that, like Mignini is a bastard, then write that in Italian as if you understand any more than what you translated by means of Google Translate, doesn't exactly raise your credibility, especially when Mignini is in truth a very decent man and any fool could work that out by listening to the words he speaks, the statements he made, and his back log of working life, which encompasses years, did he really ever have any trouble?

No he did not, working on trying to protect your fellow country people from being murdered, where the multiple murders already committed are of such a shocking nature, where if he had some telephone lines tapped in relation to that, whether he failed to get the correct permission or not, makes him a criminal not, but where people are murdered and then those such as Spezi & Preston do by possibly having perverted the course of justice, that is criminal behaviour

I can't get past how Spezi was right there at the scene of the first murder in the series, sat in a remote forest next to a corpse smoking a cigarette, with a smug face towards the police, like ''where were you guys'' and then how he refused to explain to the police how it was that he knew about the murder.

Obviously, one criminal or another must have told him unless he is a super human being and had some supersonic unheard of radar on his head that could detect such murders, thing is, he never had that and neither does anyone else, before him or since, so the police immediately suspecting him of being guilty of interference in such serious matters was not unusual, if they had not at least suspected him of something they would simply have been failing to do their jobs.

And after that, there you have Spezi meddling in things, assuming that he as a journalist had the right to get to know about crimes but to keep them to himself as he pleased, well that is an element that is not allowed in any jurisdiction, not in America, the UK or Europe, or the rest of the entire world, so Mignini coming along years later and carrying on the work done before him by preceding prosecutors meant he was doing his job. Mignini is a gentle and intelligent man, even a FOOL could work that one out.

If it had not been him there as the prosecutor then another person would have become the target of those people in Seattle, no matter what he did, no matter, they'd have accused him of things that are ridiculous and hold no ground in reality, and the only way they would not have done those things is if said prosecutor had awarded Knox a prize for her crimes and presented her with the Key to the City and her cell.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi, Zorba. In case you missed this when Ergon first posted it:
http://italian-mysteries.com/nabb-interview-part08.html

It's a link to an interview with Magdalen Nabb, original author on the Monster of Florence case.

If you're ever in need of a breath of fresh air, check out these interviews. Sadly, she's deceased, but her blogposts about her trip to Africa are still available.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Thanks Nap, good link,

exactly the way I realised things were too, very complicated, and then to have a bunch of what are, essentially, simpletons (are because they choose to operate at that basal level, reducing such things to terms that are beyond meaningless & irrelevant) reduce things to a simple-minded set of derogatory exercises, in a most highly vulgar ill-informed fashion, just doesn't cut the mustard.

I think Spezi somehow thought of the case as his, only he was a crime investigative journalist not policeman and did not have the right to obstruct the course of justice, he having been sat there waiting for the police after the first murder must have made him think he knew it all and the rest nothing, as he had followed it and in that same amount of time all kinds of different persons had been on the case.

I imagine they would have respected him if he at least would have told them how it was he knew about the murder before anyone else including the police when the body was found in a forest.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
Thanks Nap, good link,

exactly the way I realised things were too, very complicated, and then to have a bunch of what are, essentially, simpletons (are because they choose to operate at that basal level, reducing such things to terms that are beyond meaningless & irrelevant) reduce things to a simple-minded set of derogatory exercises, in a most highly vulgar ill-informed fashion, just doesn't cut the mustard.

I think Spezi somehow thought of the case as his, only he was a crime investigative journalist not policeman and did not have the right to obstruct the course of justice, he having been sat there waiting for the police after the first murder must have made him think he knew it all and the rest nothing, as he had followed it and in that same amount of time all kinds of different persons had been on the case.

I imagine they would have respected him if he at least would have told them how it was he knew about the murder before anyone else including the police when the body was found in a forest.


Exactly!

There, at the site of a horrific murder, the man is showing, clearly, his priority is himself and his story. Not the death of another human being, someone with family, loved ones. It wasn't about helping the police, or preventing yet another murder. It wasn't about seeking justice, or getting at the truth. See any parallels here?
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:52 pm   Post subject: bOOK REVIEWS   

V. true, zorba, about Spezi and Doug Preston, and I think the best is that what's he's done so far has finally caught up with him. Glad also that their Amanda Knox book The Witch Of Perugia has no publishers yet.

I notice that Spezi seems to have a thing about Mignini because of his supposed interest in the occult. Mignini felt the MOF murders were the work of a group of people who were involved in satanic ritual killing, while Spezi seems to be a one man wrecking crew against any one that brought up that possibility. It is not delegitimising, of course, to say the murders had satanic ritual elements; but Spezi and Preston then used that to market the whole theme about "Mignini being obsessed with satanism" and I believe that's the easy out the North American media hopped on to the pro Knox bandwagon. Every writer since then, (hello, Burly) uses that theme. Even Sollecito uses large portions of that in his book.

Speaking of his book, I really should finish my review of Boner Hound, er, Honor Bound. One thing that strikes me is how often he does his own bath mat shuffle around certain parts of the evidence against him. Next up: the bath mat :)

Not ONCE does he mention how Massei determined the bath mat foot print matched his. Only, on page 192, he says "We didn't bother to ask (Massei) for a review of the footprint analysis by Rinaldi and Boemia because we had demonstrated some elementary measuring errors and felt that would suffice".

Really? Look for Yummi's footprint analysis in the forensics subsection to see how damning the case against him, and that Massei correctly identified that bloody footprint as belonging to him.

Next: the clambering monkey lawyer :) and staged break in.

So, when is Amanda Knox's book coming out? I'm really looking forward to it :)
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

About the book: Personally, I think it will be published after some editing is done, now that Sollecito's book is out.
Some work will also be necessary in the acknowledgement and source sections. angel-)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:25 pm   Post subject: Re: FRANK SFARZO   

Thanks, Nell, for posting kaypea of IIP'ees lengthy denunciation of Bettina. This of course is the same Kaypea who got upset when I criticized her support of the fake Amanda Knox Raffaele Sollecito Innocence Project, also known as the "Free Meredith Kercher" Face Book page which is so deeply insulting to the victim's family.

All I see in her rant is anger that Bettina "went running to PMF". Not true. She's been a member of Perugia Murder Files longer than at IIP, having been here (as tamale) since December 08, 2009, and on IIP since May 26, 2010. (She's even engaged with us, politely, a few times). I just can't fathom why kaypea has to suggest that Bettina has to have some sort of loyalty to the cause and not her own self here.

Nor was it unfair to Frank when he has his own website to defend himself, and also plenty of friends/fans it seems.

If charges against Frank have been dropped there's nothing to hold him from going back to Italy to appear at his hearing is there? Or is he going to keep trying to find other ways to stay in the U.S, as Bettina says?

We see all too often that charges of domestic violence/abuse are often dropped because they degenerate into a 'he said she said' situation. Sadly, we see, far too often, pressure on the victim to keep quiet about the abuse. Every one who urged Bettina to handle it privately ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. Also, suggestions that I provided Bettina a forum for her story as motivated by anything other than principle is very mistaken.

But I would suggest that Bruce Fisher investigate these very serious allegations, carefully and transparently, and not try to just pass it off as he just did, by saying the charges have been dropped. He started a website of his own, and provided Frank Sfarzo with a lot of publicity which allowed him to prey on vulnerable people. It is not enough to pass this off as the rantings of a jealous woman, especially when it appears he's done this before. Do you really think the Knoxes, whose cause you claim to support so well, would appreciate Frank Sfarzo's association with them to become center stage? Are you so blinded by your personal friendship with Frank that you cannot do the right thing?

That is a question you are not answerable to me for, but, your own membership.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon,


............................. hugz-)........................
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Today, as reported by Skeptical Bystander on .ORG, Frank's trial in Perugia, has just been postponed once again, because "the subject is in the USA, and deserves to be present in the court".

Does the court know his stay in the US has been prolonged because of being arrested by ANOTHER set of policemen? He's already said he's not going to attend the court, so what's the problem?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Yes on domestic violence, it's something where women come off worst, so this he said she said thing, is a tool of manipulation, it's a male-oriented thing, where even in prisons, where the ordinary run of the mill criminals will beat rapists as they are the so-called lowest, but turn a blind eye to a man in jail, serving 7s for violence where he put his partner or wife in hospital, o h it's just a domestic, none of my business, none of your business, none o f our business, but, sorry, it is definitely everyone's business, because where they say domestic and violence it still is violence, which unless your wife just so happens to be a top wrestler or weight lifting champion, the woman gets bashed to shit. The whole idea of it's only a domestic is from a time gone by, and really gone by as in ought now to be finished but isn't, it's kept in place by men who are taught by females who were also kept in their place, that males have the right to do everything they please, and that they cut the Sunday joint, that they hold the wallet, that they can go out with the boys and leave what mostly is mum/mom (by now) along with the rest of the deal), the wife at home to keep guard, meaning look after the kids, finish the washing, probably in many cases to this very day, do the washing up after having done the cooking, and have a male lounge on the sofa making what are supposed to be jokes by saying again, outdated things like, mmm, can you iron my shirt, I can't do ironing, that's women's work, this is kept in place again by the outdated ideas, used gladly by males, like if you do anything to help you are doing women's work, and are therefore not a man, maybe even homo, very conveniently used by generations upon generations of lazy men to turn a poartner from a romantic partner as well as friend into a registered slave through marriage, a substitute mother

Mom: Is she looking after you son?


Oh yeah sons cannot do anything wrong, not in the old days anyway and as these things run in families and are passed down as ways to act and behave, it still goes on now reinforced through a constant barrage of media imagery keeping those old roles firmly in place.

Mom: She can't cook like me can she son, there you go pet, a nice bowl of soup, just like you used to have when you were a boy, and had a cold, with your favourite toast soldiers. There there son, don't worry, I know it's all her fault, making you make your own coffee, now your dad used to say to me, Gladys, this coffee ain't stirred.
And I'd say, Well I ain't ya slave do it yourself you lazy fat fool.
But even though I tried, he'd send me to coventry for a month and come home from the bar sloshed of a night time then the abuse would turn from a joke and a laugh to serious stuff, but you know son, maybe I should have just stirred his coffee, cleaned the house, made the food, listened to his comments and complaints because it's a woman's job to do that and men are the head of the house, the Bible says so... do you want me to have a word with her?

Son: okay mom, yeah, probably, can you iron my shirt and is there anything else to eat, I'm tired think I'll take a nap, do you want me to do the washing up

Mom: Of course not son, you're a man.

Son: Thought you'd say that an I'd have broken your china accidentallyon purpose to make sure you never let me help ya again ya'll.


Hey, wait, doesn't this sound like the way Frank is and the way he thinks he can treat women?

Frank: Stop talking about me, I did not beat my mother and sister for not stirring my coffee, I beat them because they got my lunch too late.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:12 pm   Post subject: A LITTLE BIT OF A PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE BY FRANK   

From little Frankie's Face Book: http://www.facebook.com/frank.sfarzo?fref=ts

Quote:
"I'm hearing that I'm in jail. Interesting. They prepare excellent cocktails in this "jail".
So pmf doesn't only defame me, as they always did with all the ones who understood that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were innocent, now they even try to frame us!
One of their members, indeed, a certain "Tamale" states to have reported me to the police and that I am in jail... Another member, a certain "Ergon", confirms that yes, I am in jail since a week.... And so on all the other members of a message boards of nobodies, time wasters and slanderers, internet rats who, being criminals, can't appear with their own name and face. Therefore, anything that is said on perugiamurderfile is not true, any document they produce may be a fake. Less that I can say, these people could never be journalists or bloggers, but I don't think any of them ever dared to consider himself or herself so.
Btw, I'm in vacation now and I have been robbed by a member of pmf, who I will report to the police tomorrow if I don't receive my belongings back. Then I will report the whole pmf, and I hope they have good properties."


Nice to know he's enjoying his "vacation". How's the Green card search coming along, Frank? Has Doug got you on the waiver list for politically persecuted bloggers yet? Met another woman on the beach? She'll need to wear a face mask and hockey pads won't she, given your propensity to bite, throw tables at? :)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:13 pm   Post subject: Re: bOOK REVIEWS   

Ergon wrote:
V. true, zorba, about Spezi and Doug Preston,



I notice that Spezi seems to have a thing about Mignini because of his supposed interest in the occult.


Mignini felt the MOF murders were the work of a group of people who were involved in satanic ritual killing, while Spezi seems to be a one man wrecking crew against any one that brought up that possibility. It is not delegitimising, of course, to say the murders had satanic ritual elements; but Spezi and Preston then used that to market the whole theme about "Mignini being obsessed with satanism" and I believe that's the easy out the North American media hopped on to the pro Knox bandwagon. Every writer since then, (hello, Burly) uses that theme. Even Sollecito uses large portions of that in his book.



Yes but had I been in Mignini's shoes,
taking all the evidence into account,
I cannot see how I would have been able to avoid including the idea of satanic dealings, considering so many of the murders took place on full moon nights and genitalia was sliced off much like cuts of tuna down at the fish market.

These couples, and wee groups, seem to resemble the phenomenon called codependency, its like you see so often that they do not truly like one other, and this is true of the Seattle League and then the Italian connection, meaning Sollecito's, they might privately wish they could poke one another's eyes out, blaming it over the privacy of dinner, on the others, then to the open world, immediately a new and different mask is put on, broad smiles all round, like they loved one another yet ya just can't get around how they all look like farmers with toothache pretending to smile, as they do.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
Thanks Nap, good link,

exactly the way I realised things were too, very complicated, and then to have a bunch of what are, essentially, simpletons (are because they choose to operate at that basal level, reducing such things to terms that are beyond meaningless & irrelevant) reduce things to a simple-minded set of derogatory exercises, in a most highly vulgar ill-informed fashion, just doesn't cut the mustard.

I think Spezi somehow thought of the case as his, only he was a crime investigative journalist not policeman and did not have the right to obstruct the course of justice, he having been sat there waiting for the police after the first murder must have made him think he knew it all and the rest nothing, as he had followed it and in that same amount of time all kinds of different persons had been on the case.

I imagine they would have respected him if he at least would have told them how it was he knew about the murder before anyone else including the police when the body was found in a forest.


Exactly!

There, at the site of a horrific murder, the man is showing, clearly, his priority is himself and his story. Not the death of another human being, someone with family, loved ones. It wasn't about helping the police, or preventing yet another murder. It wasn't about seeking justice, or getting at the truth. See any parallels here?



Furthermore, him and his nobodies, ahaha, while he is in debt up to his free-cocktailed eyeballs, how can anyone know, let's face it, what everyone in the world does, because when you are writing about such a diverse range of people from all kinds of countries it's highly unlikely that by making sweeping statements and trying to categorize them that way would be an accurate way to define people you know nothing about.

So there's him with no money, an apartment he lost, debts, no profession except for loud mouth and woman abuser of the year 2007-12 including of his dear ol' mom and sis, trying to pretend he has a clue in hell about anything.

Mom: Damn, ya know I'm glad he's gone

Sis: Let's hope he don't come back mama

Mom: I did take him to the vets to have him put down but they didn't believe me when I said he's an animal in pain

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Top Profile 

Offline louiehaha


Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:13 am

Posts: 348

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Rather than snorkeling, swimming with dolphins, or para-sailing today, the poster who goes by the pseudonym “Frank Sfarzo” has taken to the hotel computer in beautiful Kona, Hawaii to call PMF out as liars, nobodies, timewasters, slanderers, internet rats, and criminals. Funny he’d bother with us “lowlifes” during his respite from his four month North American tour (aka Operation Sugar Momma). Sounds like he's having a great time!

Here's what he (and his blind sheep) say:




Top Profile 

Offline louiehaha


Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:13 am

Posts: 348

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:47 pm   Post subject: Re: A LITTLE BIT OF A PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE BY FRANK   

Ergon wrote:
From little Frankie's Face Book: http://www.facebook.com/frank.sfarzo?fref=ts

Quote:
"I'm hearing that I'm in jail. Interesting. They prepare excellent cocktails in this "jail".
So pmf doesn't only defame me, as they always did with all the ones who understood that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were innocent, now they even try to frame us!
One of their members, indeed, a certain "Tamale" states to have reported me to the police and that I am in jail... Another member, a certain "Ergon", confirms that yes, I am in jail since a week.... And so on all the other members of a message boards of nobodies, time wasters and slanderers, internet rats who, being criminals, can't appear with their own name and face. Therefore, anything that is said on perugiamurderfile is not true, any document they produce may be a fake. Less that I can say, these people could never be journalists or bloggers, but I don't think any of them ever dared to consider himself or herself so.
Btw, I'm in vacation now and I have been robbed by a member of pmf, who I will report to the police tomorrow if I don't receive my belongings back. Then I will report the whole pmf, and I hope they have good properties."


Nice to know he's enjoying his "vacation". How's the Green card search coming along, Frank? Has Doug got you on the waiver list for politically persecuted bloggers yet? Met another woman on the beach? She'll need to wear a face mask and hockey pads won't she, given your propensity to bite, throw tables at? :)


I missed your post Ergon, but I had the same reaction to his nonsense.
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Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7180

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:02 pm   Post subject: BOOK REVIEW   

And moving on to the more important issue of this case, rather than a feckless gigolo bumming around a beach, my penultimate review of Boner Hound's journey to Hel and back. I was going to write it as a pastiche of Dante's Inferno, and I just might :) but for now, the case of the clambering monkey lawyer:

Quote:
Page 151: What about scaling the wall itself? Delfo Berretti, from Luca Maori's office, decided he would have a go, removing only his work jacket before hitching himself up onto the iron grate covering one of the boys' bedroom windows directly below Filomena's. As photos taken that day show, Berretti had no trouble maneuvering himself into a position where he could have reached into Filomena's broken window, opened it, and swung himself up to climb in.


Except he didn't, couldn't, right? Your lawyer's photo (page II) shows him perched, uncomfortably, on the boys bedroom ledge, and other pictures show he barely reached the lower ledge and he's at least 4 inches taller than Rudy Guede. So, do provide the video you also had running that day, that show him unable to complete the climb as described by your defense team?
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Offline louiehaha


Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:13 am

Posts: 348

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Does anyone know anything about the website amandaknox.net?

from whois registry:
Domain Name: AMANDAKNOX.NET
Created on: 16-Jun-12
Expires on: 16-Jun-13
Last Updated on: 07-Sep-12

Registrant:
Roldvale Entertainment
801 County Road
Pocasset, Massachusetts 02559
United States

Administrative Contact:
Aikman, Jeffrey Roldvale@aol.com
Roldvale Entertainment
801 County Road
Pocasset, Massachusetts 02559
United States
+1.5086483174 Fax -- +1.50887888
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Offline louiehaha


Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:13 am

Posts: 348

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

The HC catolog indicates Knox's book will be released on April 30, 2013. It's on "embargo" status.
http://www.harpercollinscatalogs.com/ha ... 373134.htm

Unti Memoir Unabridged CD
By Amanda Knox

Print PDF

Title Notes

Overview
Author
Also Available

She spent four years in a foreign prison for a crime she did not commit.

Separated from her family, she was demonized by the international press and treated harshly by the Italian justice system, including disdainful police.

She endured humiliation, injustice, and loneliness thousands of miles from her home.

Now, with intelligence, grace, and candor, Amanda Knox, the young American exchange student, tells the full story of her harrowing ordeal in Italy—a labyrinthine nightmare of crime and punishment, innocence and vindication—and of the unwavering support of family and friends who tirelessly worked to see her win her freedom


HarperAudio
Selling Territory: W
15,000

On Sale: 4/30/2013
BIOGRAPHY & AUTOBIOGRAPHY:PERSONAL MEMOIRS
BIOGRAPHY & AUTOBIOGRAPHY:WOMEN
CD 9780062237613 $39.99 ($48.50)
9 CDs/10.5 hours Unabridged

AMANDA KNOX IN HER OWN WORDS: For the first time ever, Amanda Knox tells us exactly what happened: the discovery of the tragic death of her friend and roommate, the interrogation, the trial, the conviction, the appeal, the acquittal, and the aftermath. We will do our best to make sure she reads the audiobook.
MEDIA EVENT OF THE SEASON: Since the announcement of the deal, we have been bombarded with calls and emails from innumerable media outlets all interested in speaking with Amanda. People want to know her side of the story, but Amanda is has held off on all interviews and will continue to do so until the book’s publication.
AMANDA IS CHARMING AND MEDIAGENIC: Amanda is wonderful: intelligent, articulate, charming, and ready to tell her story.
DETAILED JOURNALS: Amanda is a devoted diarist and kept detailed journals throughout her time in Italy and in prison. She has documented every second of the trial and the thoughts and feelings she experienced during the most harrowing moments.
READY AUDIENCE: The listeners who loved A Stolen Life: A Memoir (sold 6,580 copies in CD) and The Monster of Florence (has over 7,000 combined CD sales) will flock to Amanda’s story.

In the fall of 2007, twenty-year old college coed Amanda Knox left Seattle to study abroad in Perugia, Italy for one year. But that November 1, her life was shattered when her roommate, British student Meredith Kercher, was murdered in their apartment. Five days later, Amanda was taken into custody and charged by the Italian police; her arrest and the subsequent investigation ignited an international media firestorm. Overnight, this ordinary young American student became the subject of intense scrutiny, forced to endure a barrage of innuendo and speculation. Two years later, after an extremely controversial trial, Amanda was convicted and imprisoned. But in 2011 an appeals court overturned her conviction and vacated the charges. Free at last, she immediately returned home to the U.S., where she has remained silent, until now.

For the first time since her trial, her four-year incarceration, and her appeal and acquittal, Amanda Knox shares the full and unflinching account of her terrifying ordeal, including the events that led to her arrest and her struggles with the Kafkaesque Italian judicial system. Aided by the journals and letters she wrote during her imprisonment, Amanda details her harrowing encounters with the Italian police, prison guards, and her fellow inmates. She speaks intimately about what it was like to be twenty years old and in prison in a foreign country for a crime she did not commit, and of the inner strength and strong family bonds that helped her endure her traumatic twist of fate.

Filled with never before-told details and eight pages of color photos, told with grace and maturity, Untitled is a remarkable story of innocence, resilience, and courage, and of one young woman's hard-fought battle to overcome injustice and win the freedom she deserved.
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Offline Michael

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Member KayPea from IIP has been given permission by Frank Sfarzo to post his version publicly and so she did.

KayPea also claims that this matter is about jealousy and other members at IIP also hint to some kind of relationship between Frank and Bettina that goes allegedly further than an average friendship. Only Frank and Bettina know the answer to that.

Here is the full post:

KayPea wrote:
Post subject: Re: Today over at PMF
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:31 am
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:40 pm
Posts: 587
Location: Seattle WA

He Said, She Said.

Posted on PMF.

Quote:
Yes I am Bettina, using fake screen names because I did not want drama. I did not wish to be public...."


"I did not want drama. I did not wish to be public" *swearing warning* Bullshit!

Bettina I am hugely disappointed in your behavior. Running straight to PMF to smear Frank? Jeeze woman, YOU knew exactly what you were doing. YOU wanted this mess public. The proof was first by calling all of the peeps in Franks' phone to "ask for help" right after your own behavior (a la "loud fight in hotel room") was front and center, then by posting your rant in this public forum, (YOU, like all longtime posters, KNOW they troll here), then by running right over to PMF and airing dirty laundry when your post was taken down. Specifically to assure privacy until this mess was sorted out. YOU took care of any privacy concerns, didn't you?

btw, of the 'contacted' peeps, only a couple said she actually "asked for help." Others said she was a vindictive scorned woman.

By your own behavior, Bettina, you are proving yourself to be a liar. "I did not wish to be public." Riiiiight. Like anyone believes THAT statement.

Frank is frank. You know this, you have been chatting him up for years, you supported him on Perugia Shock. We ALL know that Frank is not a Casper Milquetoast when it comes to cops or when it comes to speaking his mind. So I'm not going into the personal part of this very public situation, but I do have permission to publicize Frank's version of the fight between you two.

Specifically because it is the reason the cops were called. I asked him to be straight about your fight so that we could all decide what to do. The personal between them will remain, but I can say that "jealousy" played a major role.

What is really sad is that Bettina COULD have counted on our support, but she shot herself in the foot by her own behavior. The irony of what she is doing is not lost on me, either, because I had just finished an article on the mechanics of the Smear Campaign that Mignini used to ensnare the kids. Bettina did exactly the same thing right before my eyes.

The sad part is that none of this was necessary, it could have been handled in-house and only Frank and Bettina's close confidants would have heard the story.

I, obviously, am very suspicious WHY Bettina felt she needed to PUBLICIZE this mess in a way where Frank had no chance of countering her claims. This is defo a Smear Campaign by definition.

Franks' account of the fight.

Quote:
of course, as I already said, I did not beat her or pushed her, on the contrary, as soon as I entered the room she thrown a bag on me, beat me, pushed me and kicked my other bag. This all in an instant. I saw that she was completely out of control so I didn't react and I fell between a bed and the wall, in that moment she thrown my other bag out of the room.

She had told me to have recently reported two men for harassing and for rape, so I definitely avoided any argue.

I went to collect my stuff and I said I was going. That made her more mad and she yelled that she didn't have spent all those money for sleeping alone in a hotel room. Since I didn't answer she threatened me that she would have called the police and tell them that I had beaten her. I told her to go for it. So she was undisturbed in calling the police with me in the room, which by itself proves that no violence there was by my side, otherwise I would have prevented her to call the police, don't you think?

Not even she said that I've beaten her, she said that I've pushed her. She doesn't say why. So I hope she comes to court and tells us WHY should I have pushed her... I instead know WHY she kicked my stuff and assaulted me, stole my stuff, stole the contact information of my friends form my cellphone, disturbed them by telephone, violated our privacy, and I can't wait to tell it to the judge.

You can forward this to the others. I was preparing a total wrap up, but I don't know if people are interested. Maybe they are more interested in Bettina's delusions....



Now you guys have the other side.

Bettina. Walk away from PMF. Own your part of this mess. Go snorkeling when it is all over.


_________________
Mignini è un Bastardo! *peh-tooey*




According to Bruce Fischer, the case has been dismissed.


They make every effort at IIP to portray this as an isolated and unrelated incident that doesn't have any effect on Frank Sfarzo's work supporting Amanda Knox.

What about Bruce Fischer's public smearing of Peter Quennell with claims about sexual harassment and extortion? So apparently "unrelated incidents" only tarnish people's reputation when the Knox groupies agree with it.

I don't know what went on in that hotel room and I don't particularly care, but it is a fact and has been confirmed by numerous sources that Frank is sponging off people, because despite his advanced age he is still not able to fend for himself and I suspect it will never happen. To this he is ungrateful to those who have financially supported him.




I've remained quiet up until now, but ENOUGH.

Does Frank Sforza seriously expect us to swallow his version of events? I have been quietly piecing it all together behind the scenes and Frank's version simply does not match the facts.

Frank claims this is all down to jealousy because he refused Bettina's advances, the woman scorned.

Let me be clear. Bettina put Frank up IN HER OWN HOME for five days. During that time, she was subjected to constant abuse. Having had enough, she paid for a hotel room and moved him out of her home into the hotel, as even after all that she didn't feel she could leave him on the street. Is any woman, going to throw a guest out of their house and then insist on sleeping with them????? I don't think so!

Frank's behaviour on the island is well documented and was witnessed by many people. These people can be produced!

Kaypea and Fischer need to open their eyes. I know they simply love to abuse victims, but it's time to STOP!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline zorba


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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

But where is Frank's boyfriend Sollecito?

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
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Offline zorba


User avatar


Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

What else can I say other than: Book'im Danno

All of this is more than bizarre, I mean a f-wit like Frank there in Hawaii, it's like no place is spared this crap

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
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Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Even talking about him is a waste of breath IMO.
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Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Posts: 615

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Greetings....I did say that Peter did not molest Frank. I did say that we tried to help him, even tho we were told lies about his arrest in Perugia. I do know that Franks passport was seized in Canada. It was returned but he is not welcome in Canada.

I did say I was not certain if Frank was in jail after the first night.

Thanks for all of the support from men and women who have written of their own mistreatment at the hands of Frank.

I told the story. Frank is sending threatening texts and has threatened to tell the world of my insanity by publishing private emails. Really, he should leave the Island...he is not having fun. Insanity is not a crime, abuse is. Frank got schooled, Island style. Hawaiians don't like people mistreating wahine.

I fully understand why IIP deleted my post. They ARE trying to protect me from Frank. I did not realize this at the time and came here to tell my story. I have no issues with anybody except Frank (and the people who received coroberation from others, and still villified me). Sorry for poor spelling.
I feel no need to justify myself...the facts can speak for themselves. The info is out there.
I will now go away and let Frank reveal his true nature (further). I feel merciful for Frank because he is unravelling, violent and will destruct before the eyes of the world. We are all flawed, but most of us accept responsibility for our own imperfections and refrain from punishing others for it. Frank missed that lesson.
Thank you Ergon for your assistance. I found your questions to be fair.
This sad chapter is not enjoyable for me. Your friend, Bettina
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Offline Ergon

Site Admin


User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7180

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

tamale wrote:
Greetings....I did say that Peter did not molest Frank. I did say that we tried to help him, even tho we were told lies about his arrest in Perugia. I do know that Franks passport was seized in Canada. It was returned but he is not welcome in Canada.

I did say I was not certain if Frank was in jail after the first night.

Thanks for all of the support from men and women who have written of their own mistreatment at the hands of Frank.

I told the story. Frank is sending threatening texts and has threatened to tell the world of my insanity by publishing private emails. Really, he should leave the Island...he is not having fun. Insanity is not a crime, abuse is. Frank got schooled, Island style. Hawaiians don't like people mistreating wahine.

I fully understand why IIP deleted my post. They ARE trying to protect me from Frank. I did not realize this at the time and came here to tell my story. I have no issues with anybody except Frank (and the people who received coroberation from others, and still villified me). Sorry for poor spelling.
I feel no need to justify myself...the facts can speak for themselves. The info is out there.
I will now go away and let Frank reveal his true nature (further). I feel merciful for Frank because he is unravelling, violent and will destruct before the eyes of the world. We are all flawed, but most of us accept responsibility for our own imperfections and refrain from punishing others for it. Frank missed that lesson.
Thank you Ergon for your assistance. I found your questions to be fair.
This sad chapter is not enjoyable for me. Your friend, Bettina


You're welcome, Bettina. Glad to be able to help. Be safe. You do realize that Frank's hearing in Perugia has been postponed again, not that he intends to go back to Italy? So I'll hope he leaves Hawaii, and you, alone.

Ergon
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Offline Ergon

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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7180

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

dgfred wrote:
Even talking about him is a waste of breath IMO.


I agree, a very smelly fish in a small pond called Seattle. But as far as the case goes, fun to see all those media dreams go kaplooie. Interesting to see, the epidemic of foot shooting and own goals. I'd rather read the tea leaves for March 25, 2013 ;)

Me, I'm looking forward to Christmas. There's a big tree I have my eye on.
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Offline Ergon

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User avatar


Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Posts: 7180

Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
The HC catolog indicates Knox's book will be released on April 30, 2013. It's on "embargo" status.
http://www.harpercollinscatalogs.com/ha ... 373134.htm

Unti Memoir Unabridged CD
By Amanda Knox

Print PDF

Title Notes

Overview
Author
Also Available

She spent four years in a foreign prison for a crime she did not commit.

Separated from her family, she was demonized by the international press and treated harshly by the Italian justice system, including disdainful police.

She endured humiliation, injustice, and loneliness thousands of miles from her home.

Now, with intelligence, grace, and candor, Amanda Knox, the young American exchange student, tells the full story of her harrowing ordeal in Italy—a labyrinthine nightmare of crime and punishment, innocence and vindication—and of the unwavering support of family and friends who tirelessly worked to see her win her freedom


HarperAudio
Selling Territory: W
15,000

On Sale: 4/30/2013
BIOGRAPHY & AUTOBIOGRAPHY:PERSONAL MEMOIRS
BIOGRAPHY & AUTOBIOGRAPHY:WOMEN
CD 9780062237613 $39.99 ($48.50)
9 CDs/10.5 hours Unabridged

AMANDA KNOX IN HER OWN WORDS: For the first time ever, Amanda Knox tells us exactly what happened: the discovery of the tragic death of her friend and roommate, the interrogation, the trial, the conviction, the appeal, the acquittal, and the aftermath. We will do our best to make sure she reads the audiobook.
MEDIA EVENT OF THE SEASON: Since the announcement of the deal, we have been bombarded with calls and emails from innumerable media outlets all interested in speaking with Amanda. People want to know her side of the story, but Amanda is has held off on all interviews and will continue to do so until the book’s publication.
AMANDA IS CHARMING AND MEDIAGENIC: Amanda is wonderful: intelligent, articulate, charming, and ready to tell her story.
DETAILED JOURNALS: Amanda is a devoted diarist and kept detailed journals throughout her time in Italy and in prison. She has documented every second of the trial and the thoughts and feelings she experienced during the most harrowing moments.
READY AUDIENCE: The listeners who loved A Stolen Life: A Memoir (sold 6,580 copies in CD) and The Monster of Florence (has over 7,000 combined CD sales) will flock to Amanda’s story.

In the fall of 2007, twenty-year old college coed Amanda Knox left Seattle to study abroad in Perugia, Italy for one year. But that November 1, her life was shattered when her roommate, British student Meredith Kercher, was murdered in their apartment. Five days later, Amanda was taken into custody and charged by the Italian police; her arrest and the subsequent investigation ignited an international media firestorm. Overnight, this ordinary young American student became the subject of intense scrutiny, forced to endure a barrage of innuendo and speculation. Two years later, after an extremely controversial trial, Amanda was convicted and imprisoned. But in 2011 an appeals court overturned her conviction and vacated the charges. Free at last, she immediately returned home to the U.S., where she has remained silent, until now.

For the first time since her trial, her four-year incarceration, and her appeal and acquittal, Amanda Knox shares the full and unflinching account of her terrifying ordeal, including the events that led to her arrest and her struggles with the Kafkaesque Italian judicial system. Aided by the journals and letters she wrote during her imprisonment, Amanda details her harrowing encounters with the Italian police, prison guards, and her fellow inmates. She speaks intimately about what it was like to be twenty years old and in prison in a foreign country for a crime she did not commit, and of the inner strength and strong family bonds that helped her endure her traumatic twist of fate.

Filled with never before-told details and eight pages of color photos, told with grace and maturity, Untitled is a remarkable story of innocence, resilience, and courage, and of one young woman's hard-fought battle to overcome injustice and win the freedom she deserved.


This is for the Audio CD, which I think is an artefact from when the book release date was moved forward from October to April 30, 2013, louiehaha, then vanished altogether from their print catalog. Can't find the book release date any more, so I think they're gonna wait until they see which way the SC will vote.
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
The HC catolog indicates Knox's book will be released on April 30, 2013. It's on "embargo" status.
http://www.harpercollinscatalogs.com/ha ... 373134.htm

Unti Memoir Unabridged CD
By Amanda Knox

Print PDF

Title Notes

Overview
Author
Also Available

She spent four years in a foreign prison for a crime she did not commit.

Separated from her family, she was demonized by the international press and treated harshly by the Italian justice system, including disdainful police.

She endured humiliation, injustice, and loneliness thousands of miles from her home.

Now, with intelligence, grace, and candor, Amanda Knox, the young American exchange student, tells the full story of her harrowing ordeal in Italy—a labyrinthine nightmare of crime and punishment, innocence and vindication—and of the unwavering support of family and friends who tirelessly worked to see her win her freedom


HarperAudio
Selling Territory: W
15,000

On Sale: 4/30/2013
BIOGRAPHY & AUTOBIOGRAPHY:PERSONAL MEMOIRS
BIOGRAPHY & AUTOBIOGRAPHY:WOMEN
CD 9780062237613 $39.99 ($48.50)
9 CDs/10.5 hours Unabridged

AMANDA KNOX IN HER OWN WORDS: For the first time ever, Amanda Knox tells us exactly what happened: the discovery of the tragic death of her friend and roommate, the interrogation, the trial, the conviction, the appeal, the acquittal, and the aftermath. We will do our best to make sure she reads the audiobook.
MEDIA EVENT OF THE SEASON: Since the announcement of the deal, we have been bombarded with calls and emails from innumerable media outlets all interested in speaking with Amanda. People want to know her side of the story, but Amanda is has held off on all interviews and will continue to do so until the book’s publication.
AMANDA IS CHARMING AND MEDIAGENIC: Amanda is wonderful: intelligent, articulate, charming, and ready to tell her story.
DETAILED JOURNALS: Amanda is a devoted diarist and kept detailed journals throughout her time in Italy and in prison. She has documented every second of the trial and the thoughts and feelings she experienced during the most harrowing moments.
READY AUDIENCE: The listeners who loved A Stolen Life: A Memoir (sold 6,580 copies in CD) and The Monster of Florence (has over 7,000 combined CD sales) will flock to Amanda’s story.

In the fall of 2007, twenty-year old college coed Amanda Knox left Seattle to study abroad in Perugia, Italy for one year. But that November 1, her life was shattered when her roommate, British student Meredith Kercher, was murdered in their apartment. Five days later, Amanda was taken into custody and charged by the Italian police; her arrest and the subsequent investigation ignited an international media firestorm. Overnight, this ordinary young American student became the subject of intense scrutiny, forced to endure a barrage of innuendo and speculation. Two years later, after an extremely controversial trial, Amanda was convicted and imprisoned. But in 2011 an appeals court overturned her conviction and vacated the charges. Free at last, she immediately returned home to the U.S., where she has remained silent, until now.

For the first time since her trial, her four-year incarceration, and her appeal and acquittal, Amanda Knox shares the full and unflinching account of her terrifying ordeal, including the events that led to her arrest and her struggles with the Kafkaesque Italian judicial system. Aided by the journals and letters she wrote during her imprisonment, Amanda details her harrowing encounters with the Italian police, prison guards, and her fellow inmates. She speaks intimately about what it was like to be twenty years old and in prison in a foreign country for a crime she did not commit, and of the inner strength and strong family bonds that helped her endure her traumatic twist of fate.

Filled with never before-told details and eight pages of color photos, told with grace and maturity, Untitled is a remarkable story of innocence, resilience, and courage, and of one young woman's hard-fought battle to overcome injustice and win the freedom she deserved.


Thanks for that info, louiehaha. "We will do our best to make sure she reads the audiobook." Judging from Amanda's Oscar acceptance spreech at the airport after her acquittal, I'm not sure this is a good idea. I could hardly bear to listen to her for five minutes then.
Also I find it rather tasteless to indirectly compare her with Jaycee Dugard. That comparison wouldn't fit even if AK was innocent.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:02 pm   Post subject: fartty   

Only I do not agree with the idea that the only reason Bettina's post(s) was/were removed is to protect her

No way Jose.

There's more to it than that, and God bless Bettina, she may have no problem with anyone but Frank but certain others are twisted and it is not as simple as having a problem with Frank, they the Knox Protectorate Shield have a problem with Bettina.

The posts were removed because of what is perceived as possible damage to Knox through Sfarzo his royally not so Frankness

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Latest Kona News

From our correspondent Winny

Reports are just coming in about an unemployed male, 5 feet 2, cocktail drinker and food voucher applicant, this homeless man was seen feeding himself on food thrown out from restaurants, the chef of one joint was about to batter his head between two dustbin lids when he realised just on time that this head was exceedingly large for a rat.

A local said: We'd seen him around all week, we told him don't go fishing or trying to surf as this time of year the currents are strong and the waves too high and sharks come in to feed, he wouldn't listen, he said, screw off or I'll sue you all, you Hawaiians. a group surrounded him, and said listen buddy, we have our own chunky and we don't like Italian chappy, so you'd better watch your step, we don't take none too kindly to women beaters in these here parts.

With that Frank the obstinato, dived off a cliff narrowly missing a flurry of sharp ridges and rocks, whereupon he was immediately eaten by a pile of sharks, you could say swarm, or shoal, or a team, but they did just pile into him, help me, help me, help me or I'll sue ya, could be heard, for about 4 seconds then it all went dead quiet.

That night, that very night, a mysterious email arrived saying, I am writing this on my iPod in the belly of a shark and you'd better get me outta of here before I sue ya.

Everyone was very upset....


The poor shark who had to put up with the disturbed Italian's whining said, damn I wish those digestive juices of mine would shut him up

This went on so long the shark could stand this cissy-speak no longer and spewed the half eaten Italian back up on the shore, minus torso, arms & legs,

Dammit if his mouth was still intact,
I'll sue ya, I'll sue ya,

And it was about this time that the locals ordered a cement making machine having decided to help poor Frank, setting him for all prosperity in a stoney form and placing him in the park.

Artwork: Don't feed the sharks

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Bettina, I would like to share a thought:
You posted:
Quote:
I told the story. Frank is sending threatening texts and has threatened to tell the world of my insanity by publishing private emails. Really, he should leave the Island...he is not having fun. Insanity is not a crime, abuse is. Frank got schooled, Island style. Hawaiians don't like people mistreating wahine.


If you are suffering from some form of mental illness, this is not something for which you should feel shame.
The shame should be placed upon the shoulders of anyone who chooses to manipulate or intimidate you because of it.
I wish you well.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
Latest Kona News

From our correspondent Winny

Reports are just coming in about an unemployed male, 5 feet 2, cocktail drinker and food voucher applicant, this homeless man was seen feeding himself on food thrown out from restaurants, the chef of one joint was about to batter his head between two dustbin lids when he realised just on time that this head was exceedingly large for a rat.

A local said. We'd seen him around all week, we told him don't go fishing or trying to surf as this time of year the currents are strong and the waves too high and sharks come in to feed, he wouldn't listen, he said, screw off or I'll sue you all, you Hawaiians. a group surrounded him, and said listen buddy, we have our own chunky and we don't like Italian chappy, so you'd better watch your step, we don't take none too kindly to women beaters in these here parts.

With that Frank the obstinato, dived off a cliff narrowly missing a flurry of sharp ridges and rocks, whereupon he was immediately eaten by a pile of sharks, you could say swarm, or shoal, or a team, but they did just pile into him, help me, help me, help me or I'll sue ya, could be heard, for about 4 seconds then it all went dead quiet.

That night, that very night, a mysterious email arrived saying, I'
am writing this on my iPod in the belly of a shark and you'd better get me outta of here before I sue ya.

Everyone was very upset....


The poor shark who had to put up with the disturbed Italian's whining said, damn I wish those digestive juices of mine would shut him up

This went on so long the shark could stand this cissy-speak no longer and spewed the half eaten Italian back up on the shore, minus torso, arms & legs,

Dammit if his mouth was still intact,
I'll sue ya, I'll sue ya,

And it was about this time that the locals ordered a cement making machine having decided to help poor Frank, setting him for all prosperity in a stoney form and placing him in the park.

Artwork: Don't feed the sharks



Zorba, I swear to God, I haven't laughed this much in ages! You truly are a piece of work.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi Nap,

Ha ha, I must admit it's lightened me up too...

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

tamale wrote:
--- snip ---

I told the story. Frank is sending threatening texts and has threatened to tell the world of my insanity by publishing private emails.

--- snap ---


These kind of threats could constitute a crime and you might want to talk to your local police about it and get a restraining order against Frank Sforza.


tamale wrote:
--- snip ---

I fully understand why IIP deleted my post. They ARE trying to protect me from Frank. I did not realize this at the time and came here to tell my story.

--- snap ---


Bruce Fischer believes you need protection from Frank Sfarzo? Why would that be if he is harmless and non-violent?

The charges might have been dismissed this time, but his arrests keep piling up, no matter where he goes.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

It's a bit amusing to think about being sued, though.
If Frank catches me on a good day, he can shake my recliner and come up with 40 cents, give or take, and a couple of fuzz-coated gumballs. But he'll get his #%$ kicked, trying to walk them past my crew.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
The HC catolog indicates Knox's book will be released on April 30, 2013. It's on "embargo" status.
http://www.harpercollinscatalogs.com/ha ... 373134.htm

[...]

She spent four years in a foreign prison for a crime she did not commit.

[...]


They don't understand, or more precisely, they don't think their readers understand the difference between found not guilty and found innocent.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
tamale wrote:
--- snip ---

I told the story. Frank is sending threatening texts and has threatened to tell the world of my insanity by publishing private emails.

--- snap ---


These kind of threats could constitute a crime and you might want to talk to your local police about it and get a restraining order against Frank Sforza.


tamale wrote:
--- snip ---

I fully understand why IIP deleted my post. They ARE trying to protect me from Frank. I did not realize this at the time and came here to tell my story.

--- snap ---


Bruce Fischer believes you need protection from Frank Sfarzo? Why would that be if he is harmless and non-violent?

The charges might have been dismissed this time, but his arrests keep piling up, no matter where he goes.



Hey Tamale, in response once more, do not allow yourself to feel intimidated by these people by making excuses for that forum, because I can assure you, you are being used. It seems to me you are trying to be apologetic to people who in no way deserve it, they do not because they are dishonest.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
It's a bit amusing to think about being sued, though.
If Frank catches me on a good day, he can shake my recliner and come up with 40 cents, give or take, and a couple of fuzz-coated gumballs. But he'll get his #%$ kicked, trying to walk them past my crew.


Ha ha,

Yeah dear old Franky Boy been watching too many movies, or he thinks he is Dick Whittington off to seek his fortune in the land, America, where the streets are paved with gold

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
tamale wrote:
--- snip ---

I told the story. Frank is sending threatening texts and has threatened to tell the world of my insanity by publishing private emails.

--- snap ---


These kind of threats could constitute a crime and you might want to talk to your local police about it and get a restraining order against Frank Sforza.


tamale wrote:
--- snip ---

I fully understand why IIP deleted my post. They ARE trying to protect me from Frank. I did not realize this at the time and came here to tell my story.

--- snap ---


Bruce Fischer believes you need protection from Frank Sfarzo? Why would that be if he is harmless and non-violent?

The charges might have been dismissed this time, but his arrests keep piling up, no matter where he goes.



Hey Tamale, in response once more, do not allow yourself to feel intimidated by these people by making excuses for that forum, because I can assure you, you are being used. It seems to me you are trying to be apologetic to people who in no way deserve it, they do not because they are dishonest.


To all the above I should add that the public disclosure of private facts, like personal data, email correspondence etc. is protected by privacy laws.

Frank is a toothless tiger. Just the man we need to lecture us about defamation, when he is the worst offender. His original blog was taken down by law enforcement for making libelous claims against Italian prosecutor Mignini and Italian authorities.

Jodie Leah's comments on Facebook are a good example of online bullying and the vilification of an individual of who she suspects to be Bettina.

Bettina, if you have those threatening text messages on your mobile phone, don't delete them. Bring it to the attention of the police.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Interesting article about the disrupted relationship between Perugia and Seattle as a 'result of pressure from powerful lobby groups in Seattle' in the Meredith case. Truce for now but 'the duration of the truce is feared the judgment of the Supreme Court which could revive the process'. And last but not least 'the Italian justice system (and that of any democratic country) should not be devalued or blackmailed by pressure of any kind.'

I used Google translate to make sense of the article so maybe someone else can translate it better.
http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/caso ... regua.html
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Does anyone know anything about the website amandaknox.net?

from whois registry:
Domain Name: AMANDAKNOX.NET
Created on: 16-Jun-12
Expires on: 16-Jun-13
Last Updated on: 07-Sep-12

Registrant:
Roldvale Entertainment
801 County Road
Pocasset, Massachusetts 02559
United States

Administrative Contact:
Aikman, Jeffrey Roldvale@aol.com
Roldvale Entertainment
801 County Road
Pocasset, Massachusetts 02559
United States
+1.5086483174 Fax -- +1.50887888


Hi louiehaha,

I don't know what the purpose of this website is, but what caught my eye is that the photo in the header of the website is not Amanda Knox. It is the actress Hayden Panettiere who portrayed Amanda Knox in the Lifetime movie "Amanda Knox: Murder on Trial in Italy".

The website is not clearly structured and whoever is responsible for the content dedicated a whole page to Madison Paxton while omitting the family of Amanda Knox completely. No doubt it is a website in support of Amanda Knox. Not one photo from Meredith Kercher and even the page about Raffaele Sollecito displays only photos from Amanda Knox.

There is not much content, let alone case facts, and I wouldn't be surprised if the website will have some commercial purpose in the future.
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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

tamale wrote:
daisysteiner wrote:
zorba wrote:
I too looked at the Hawaiian court site portals but couldn't find anything about him which leads me not to think Bettina isn't being straight up but that Sfarzo is not Sfarzo, he has never revealed his real name.


Frank Sfarzo is not his real name and I'll wager never has been anything other than a pen name, probably made up on 1 November 2007. I wonder if Bettina is reading this, can she tell us if she booked the plane ticket for Frank? If so, she'd have his legal name and therefore the name he would have been detained under.

It is amusing to read the IA/IIP/whateverthehellitscalledthisweek threads today. I actually feel sorry for Bruce for his naivety with "Frank". Frank is a charlatan and has been since he switched his allegiance right at the start because Chris Mellas and not Steph Kercher wanted to be his friend. That on its own tells you everything that you need to know about the man.

Francesco Sforza the real name. In Kona he was arrested under the name Frank Sforca which is why no info has been uncovered


Thanks for answering my question and I hope you get well soon. I know its probably your pride that has taken the biggest beating but at one time, we were all taken in by Frank or whoever so don't feel bad about that. He's the biggest leech in the swamp and Fisher is enabling him to basically con people in Meredith's name. I'm so sorry this happened to you as you're clearly a decent person and Frank took advantage of that. If there is anything you need then please feel you are amongst friends and can ask.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

In the simplest of terms, in the last few days, Ergon gave a voice to a victim who felt she had none.
It doesn't get any better than that. I'm proud and thankful to be a member here.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Haha Zorba... 5'2" :)
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Offline daisysteiner


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Posts: 490

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
In the simplest of terms, in the last few days, Ergon gave a voice to a victim who felt she had none.
It doesn't get any better than that. I'm proud and thankful to be a member here.


What is stunning to me is that the website purporting to fight against "Injustice Anywhere" is supporting the aggressor. An aggressor with form to the extent that his abused his own family members and has been arrested at the home of another supporter. According to Bettina, the Knox family want nothing to do with Frank either as he has been leeching of them too *not at all surprised face*. If IIP were protecting Bettina, they would not be giving Frank any space to put his side of the story. I've just read the thread over there and in no way do I find their posts supportive. Then again, I'm not Bettina; I haven't seen what private messages she has been sent and from whom. If were Bruce, I'd humour Frank until he was out of the USA and on a plane back to Perugia but then that doesn't look likely either. I just hope Frank's next stop is KayPea's house. She's very vocal in her support. I wonder if she'll be quite so vocal after Sfarzo's been hanging out there for a week or two. I don't wish violence on anyone just that she'll get to enjoy his personality first hand and we''ll get to watch her change her tune.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

daisysteiner wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
In the simplest of terms, in the last few days, Ergon gave a voice to a victim who felt she had none.
It doesn't get any better than that. I'm proud and thankful to be a member here.


What is stunning to me is that the website purporting to fight against "Injustice Anywhere" is supporting the aggressor. An aggressor with form to the extent that his abused his own family members and has been arrested at the home of another supporter. According to Bettina, the Knox family want nothing to do with Frank either as he has been leeching of them too *not at all surprised face*. If IIP were protecting Bettina, they would not be giving Frank any space to put his side of the story. I've just read the thread over there and in no way do I find their posts supportive. Then again, I'm not Bettina; I haven't seen what private messages she has been sent and from whom. If were Bruce, I'd humour Frank until he was out of the USA and on a plane back to Perugia but then that doesn't look likely either. I just hope Frank's next stop is KayPea's house. She's very vocal in her support. I wonder if she'll be quite so vocal after Sfarzo's been hanging out there for a week or two. I don't wish violence on anyone just that she'll get to enjoy his personality first hand and we''ll get to watch her change her tune.


Hi, Daisy. Love this post. If Bruce is smart, (insert whatever smilie face you choose), and wants to maintain his connections to the "Innocence Project", he has already figured that it is long past time to cut some of the loud-mouth, nasty cows from his herd and turn them out to pasture with some of the other loud-mouthed, nasty cows who have already been sidelined. JMHO, of course.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
Interesting article about the disrupted relationship between Perugia and Seattle as a 'result of pressure from powerful lobby groups in Seattle' in the Meredith case. Truce for now but 'the duration of the truce is feared the judgment of the Supreme Court which could revive the process'. And last but not least 'the Italian justice system (and that of any democratic country) should not be devalued or blackmailed by pressure of any kind.'

I used Google translate to make sense of the article so maybe someone else can translate it better.
http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/caso ... regua.html



Hi Max, I've made an attempt, for you and everyone else, thanks, your link provides an informative, bullshit-slicing article.


The translation below is not an official translation and I cannot vouch for its accuracy, however, reading what has appeared after working on it several hours, most of it makes a lot of sense to me.

Square brackets mean content inside them has been added by me to facilitate the understanding of the word(s)/concepts used in the article so that there is no mistake on those subjects/words/terms, or simply for easy reference, the explanations are official dictionary explanations, not (all) mine.


The translation is rough as I am neither a fluent speaker of Italian nor a translator of Italian to English, however, I do understand read and speak some Italian and what I make of it will be near to the central line of meaning, in other words, not far off.

__________________________________________________________________________________


Meredith case, the Perugia-Seattle truce [respite from a disagreeable state of affairs]: lobby is hostile

Not just cultural activities were behind the visit of a delegation from Perugia to Seattle, additionally real diplomacy and saving export relationships and those between universities played an equal role.

„by Nicola Bossi - 20 November 2012"


Meredith case, Perugia and Seattle confirm twinning. Mended relations with Seattle.

Twinning has been saved but anti-Perugia pressure from the USA after the Meredith case with the arrest of Amanda Knox (resident of the American town twinned with Perugia) did not subside because there is still the appeal to the Supreme Court which could revive the process after the 'acquittal on appeal' of the student in Seattle (Amanda Knox) and former boyfriend (Raffaele Sollecito). The report - concerning U.S. pressure - against the institutions of the American sister city is on the table of the Mayor of Perugia, Wladimiro Boccali.

Yeah because the trip from Perugia to Seattle was certainly not only to open an exhibition of ceramics and the Festival of Italian Cinema. The goal was to figure out whether to continue the twinning, the cultural exchanges and the relationships between universities of the two cities or to greet each other with a lot of trawling through polemics [the art or practice of dispute or argument, as in attacking or defending a doctrine or belief]. The relationship were again blown out after a number of nasty letters between the Mayor of Perugia always regarding Meredith's case. The Perugian group would however achieve an initial result: twinning to remain and to recommence a relationship. At least on paper.

American sources have reiterated [from Latin reiterāre to repeat, from re- + iterāre to do again, from iterum again] to the envoys of the Mayor of Perugia Wladimiro Boccali that the angry letters would be the result of pressure from powerful lobby groups in Seattle who have not digested the Meredith Kercher case.

It is no secret to anyone that the green area [in Seattle], which the city of Perugia was entitled to, has been given an alternative designation and that this led to an interruption [read, breakdown] of the exchanges.

But through the length of the truce it is feared the judgement of the Supreme Court, which could revive the process, could also lead to a defaulting [stubbornly resistant to authority; wilfully obstinate] Amanda Knox (hard to see her again in Italy in a court of law) as well as Raffaele Sollecito.

But the Italian justice system (and that of any democratic country) should not be devalued or blackmailed by pressure of any kind.

The same [American = Seattle-based] pressure lobby group also depicted in the past, the prosecutor Giuliano Mignigni (Perugia doctor of law) as a sort of impostor, an inquisitor rather than an honest Magistrate.

Behind the twinning there are also economic interests (export of our companies) and interchange of freshmen (see the presence of Amanda Knox in Perugia).

From here, the idea exists of ​​certain associations and USA lobby groups destroying* the relationship - by a sort of economic embargo and cultural disadvantage, they think - of/with Perugia.
__________________________________________________________________________________


[* interrompere, which all Italians immediately recognise and appreciate, the slant being a conscious word choice, because of the humour attached, such as ''rompe di palle'' = break balls, therefore not simply destroying/breaking/ruining, but a malicious act, like a fool who tries to break your balls, back off yo yo, pain in the ass]

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Last edited by zorba on Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Thanks for this, Zorba. The Google translation is bland. It's the zesty Italian seasoning that gives it flavor!
(Bet you can tell I'm in the kitchen today).
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Offline ttrroonniicc


Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:12 pm

Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

are we witnessing the frank sfarzo implosion - the case over, his website gone
what will become of frank?
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Thanks for this, Zorba. The Google translation is bland. It's the zesty Italian seasoning that gives it flavor!
(Bet you can tell I'm in the kitchen today).



That's where I need to go too, din dins time, and invoice this evening before I leave it to late, it's like take a look then wave goodbye to it; money.
These days though, you do not actually touch the stuff, as you can pay with ye olde pin code everywhere, I'm starting to suspect that real money no longer exists.
When itall breaks soewn we're all going to be exchanging beans for potatoes.

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed reading exactly what is really going and the way they put things, I love it, just a few words about Doctor Mignini, and it shows the pressure group exactly for what it is

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Last edited by zorba on Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
are we witnessing the frank sfarzo implosion - the case over, his website gone
what will become of frank?


I don't know what will happen to him, tron. Should we start a fund?
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

One last comment from me re: Sfarzogate.
Bettina wanted a voice. Ergon gave her one. Whether or not she has moved on, remains to be seen.
I for one, have not forgotten that she made an allegation concerning theft. And bad treatment of his supporters.
These things are not private issues.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
One last comment from me re: Sfarzogate.
Bettina wanted a voice. Ergon gave her one. Whether or not she has moved on, remains to be seen.
I for one, have not forgotten that she made an allegation concerning theft. And bad treatment of his supporters.
These things are not private issues.


I couldn't agree more.

How many people do you know that have been arrested on various occasions, in different countries, always for the same reason: physical altercations and some sort of abuse or harassment? His supporters downplay these incidents as they did with Amanda Knox's noise ticket and warning for rock throwing, her accusation of an innocent man and her lying to police and mocking the victim after her death.

Daisy already said it best: It is stunning that a website purporting to fight against "Injustice Anywhere" is supporting the aggressor(s).
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
One last comment from me re: Sfarzogate.
Bettina wanted a voice. Ergon gave her one. Whether or not she has moved on, remains to be seen.
I for one, have not forgotten that she made an allegation concerning theft. And bad treatment of his supporters.
These things are not private issues.


I couldn't agree more.

How many people do you know that have been arrested on various occasions, in different countries, always for the same reason: physical altercations and some sort of abuse or harassment? His supporters downplay these incidents as they did with Amanda Knox's noise ticket and warning for rock throwing, her accusation of an innocent man and her lying to police and mocking the victim after her death.

Daisy already said it best: It is stunning that a website purporting to fight against "Injustice Anywhere" is supporting the aggressor(s).


Hi Nell. Someone here mentioned pattern. That's the key here.

I know people who drink. I know people who get loud, who don't have a very high opinion of police. I know people who fight. But, does it ever get to the point where someone decides that the police are needed?

Some line is being crossed here, and apparently it is on a regular basis. KayPea said something to the effect that we all know how Frank is. I for one am getting a pretty clear picture. How else should I look at this?

In the long run, things have worked out for the best in some ways. I'm glad he's not posting here.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Yes Napia. They cover for Frank because he gave them a platform to vilify and demonise prosecutor Giuliano Mignini and the Italian police, spiced up with some distorted details of his own arrest in Perugia.

Frank Sfarzo's latest post on his blog has the subtitle "Hatred that doesn't help loving her". Under the heading is a photo of Meredith Kercher.

I quote from his post:

Frank Sfarzo on Perugia Shock wrote:
A few days after the acquittal I was delighted to see Meredith’s mother Arline smiling and finally relaxed, while saying in an interview, “If they are innocent it’s good that they are free”, something like that.
Meredith’s sister Stefanie, instead, on that occasion looked kind of irritated and got rid of the journalist who was interviewing them. She appeared to be still there, at the stage of hating Amanda and Raffaele (or maybe just Amanda…).
After one year and 144 pages of motivations, though, will she have softened herself a little? It doesn’t look so: reportedly she just said in a TV interview that she relies on the Supreme Court. (= she hopes that the S.C. cancels the acquittal of Amanda and Raffaele, so a new trial will start in a couple of years. In that trial she hopes that they will be convicted. Then the case would return to the S.C. which, she hopes, will ultimately confirm the conviction, in about ten years…). All this while we know that the real killer is someone else. Lovely.


So what he is saying is that it is more difficult to love Meredith as long as her family "hate" Amanda Knox (for killing her). I don't see how these two subjects are related and it sounds like retaliation and punishment to me, but Frank apparently sees a direct connection why one should not be able to sympathise with Meredith.

Frank belongs to the group of people that believe every of their hate speeches published online are protected by the right to free speech, but the same doesn't apply to Stephanie Kercher who is far more articulate and respectful than any of those defending Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

And that's the thing, Nell. His followers. The Groupies, the hangers-on. Some of them know. And they don't care.

It's one thing to be dazzled by some anonymous internet poster who claims to have the facts. It's another thing entirely, when you meet this guy. In person. The police get involved, and you listen to yet another story of 'not his fault'. "Old guy got drunk, woman came on to me, Mignini is out to get me."

Some of the Groupies who have met him know, Nell, they must. There are just too many warning signs, too many bells going off, too many excuses. Some of them know, and they don't care. They're going to spin and backpedal and cover up until, God forbid, someone really gets hurt, or worse.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Posting this again, as I'm not letting it pass just like that


Meredith case, the Perugia-Seattle truce [respite from a disagreeable state of affairs]: lobby is hostile

Not just cultural activities were behind the visit of a delegation from Perugia to Seattle, additionally real diplomacy and saving export relationships and relationships between universities played an equal role.

„by Nicola Bossi - 20 November 2012"


Meredith case, Perugia and Seattle confirm twinning. Mended relations with Seattle.

Twinning has been saved but anti-Perugia pressure from the USA after the Meredith case with the arrest of Amanda Knox (resident of the American town twinned with Perugia) did not subside because there is still the appeal to the Supreme Court which could revive the process after the 'acquittal on appeal' of the student in Seattle (Amanda Knox) and former boyfriend (Raffaele Sollecito). The report - concerning U.S. pressure - against the institutions of the American sister city is on the table of the Mayor of Perugia, Wladimiro Boccali.

Yeah because the trip from Perugia to Seattle was certainly not only to open an exhibition of ceramics and the Festival of Italian Cinema. The goal was to figure out whether to continue the twinning, the cultural exchanges and the relationships between universities of the two cities or to greet each other with a lot of trawling through polemics [the art or practice of dispute or argument, as in attacking or defending a doctrine or belief]. The relationships were again blown out after a number of nasty letters between the Mayor of Perugia always regarding Meredith's case. The Perugian group would however achieve an initial result: twinning to remain and to recommence a relationship. At least on paper.

American sources have reiterated [from Latin reiterāre to repeat, from re- + iterāre to do again, from iterum again] to the envoys of the Mayor of Perugia Wladimiro Boccali that the angry letters would be the result of pressure from powerful lobby groups in Seattle who have not digested the Meredith Kercher case.

It is no secret to anyone that the green area [in Seattle], which the city of Perugia was entitled to, has been given an alternative designation and that this led to an interruption [read, breakdown] of the exchanges.

But through the length of the truce it is feared the judgement of the Supreme Court, which could revive the process, could also lead to a defaulting [stubbornly resistant to authority; wilfully obstinate] Amanda Knox (hard to see her again in Italy in a court of law) as well as Raffaele Sollecito.

But the Italian justice system (and that of any democratic country) should not be devalued or blackmailed by pressure of any kind.

The same [American = Seattle-based] pressure lobby group also depicted, in the past, the prosecutor Giuliano Mignigni (Perugia doctor of law) as a sort of impostor, an inquisitor rather than an honest Magistrate.Behind the twinning there are also economic interests (export of our companies) and interchange of freshmen (see the presence of Amanda Knox in Perugia).

From here, the idea exists of ​​certain associations and USA lobby groups destroying* the relationship - by a sort of economic embargo and cultural disadvantage, they think - of/with Perugia.

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
The HC catolog indicates Knox's book will be released on April 30, 2013. It's on "embargo" status.
http://www.harpercollinscatalogs.com/ha ... 373134.htm

--- snip ---

AMANDA KNOX IN HER OWN WORDS: For the first time ever, Amanda Knox tells us exactly what happened: the discovery of the tragic death of her friend and roommate, the interrogation, the trial, the conviction, the appeal, the acquittal, and the aftermath.

--- snap ---


For how long are they going to lie about this? Meredith Kercher and Amanda Knox weren't friends at the time when Meredith was murdered. Numerous witnesses have testified in court that initially they got along well, but their relationship deteriorated quickly because of Amanda Knox's behavioural issues. She even jibes at Meredith in her email sent home after the murder. Amanda Knox is a coward for not admitting that she didn't like Meredith at all, but she knows she cannot do that, because she would acknowledge the motive for the crime: jealousy and hate.


louiehaha wrote:
--- snip ---

AMANDA IS CHARMING AND MEDIAGENIC: Amanda is wonderful: intelligent, articulate, charming, and ready to tell her story.

--- snap ---


They call it articulate, I call it an insane cloud of words, because that's what her childlike writings are.

It is preposterous to call someone wonderful who has mocked a murdered woman (a friend!) after death and accused her innocent boss of rape and murder.

The profile is phony.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Napia5 wrote:
And that's the thing, Nell. His followers. The Groupies, the hangers-on. Some of them know. And they don't care.

It's one thing to be dazzled by some anonymous internet poster who claims to have the facts. It's another thing entirely, when you meet this guy. In person. The police get involved, and you listen to yet another story of 'not his fault'. "Old guy got drunk, woman came on to me, Mignini is out to get me."

Some of the Groupies who have met him know, Nell, they must. There are just too many warning signs, too many bells going off, too many excuses. Some of them know, and they don't care. They're going to spin and backpedal and cover up until, God forbid, someone really gets hurt, or worse.



Oh how ironically macabre it would be if this Frank turned out to be some kind of true maniac, even a killer, what then if someone like Dempsey's son winds up getting murdered, because by the sounds of it this character Frank is off his rocker, but how would that be, for people, for a person such as a Dempsey who clearly, just LIKE Frank, profited off the back of this murder, with no sign of a heart anywhere, to then truly have it hit home when something terrible happens.

Then it'll be a joke n a laugh won't it;
it's all well and good absolutely doing your best to destroy any chance of justice being done when it concerns someone else's child or family, but what if things turn nuts and one of your own so-called side starts chopping people up when he doesn't get his way and goes off his nut on crystal meth or god knows what else or just because he turns out to be ape shit nuts.

The guy you thought you could fool about with who shows up at your home and won't leave, all a big joke then isn't it, it is beginning to remind me of one of those insane films, with the neighbour from hell, ah shucks ya come home and it's ga, ga, ga.... gone, burnt to a cinder, where are my credit cards, ah shucks.. empty.

I'm just saying some people have been playing with fire and I mean, can you cry when you burn your fingers?

1) Whatever happened to Carlace Dampsrayer?
2) Did her buddy show up, she thought tea and cakes, he was stoned off his nut, and/or he thought as she flirted with him, that she meant it, where's the pool said he Mrs Robinson.. coo coo ca choo Mrs Robinson, whistling as he set about undressing, unable to speak English let alone sing it.. la la la Mrs Robinson

Frank: So how much ya worth Mrs Robinson, Franky loves you more than you will know, wo wo wo, wo wo wo

Frank: Did ya think I'd come all this way for a chicken leg and a bowl of peas
We'd like to know a little bit about you for our files
We'd like to help you learn to help yourself

Carlace: Look around you, all you see are sympathetic eyes
Stroll around the grounds until you feel at home

Frank: Yes don't worry I will Mrs Robinson, heaven holds a place for those that ''prey'' (yes prey with an e) hey hey hey, hey hey hey

Carlace Damp Sprayer: Well yes, (singing as she belly flops from the diving board) how long will you be staying exactly Frank boy?

Frank: Forever Mrs Robinson, Franky loves you more than you can know, wo wo wo, wo wo wo
And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson (has grabbed her champagne by now without even asking and it's 10.15 in the morning)
Franky loves you more than you will know (Wo, wo, wo)
God bless you please, Mrs. Robinson
Heaven holds a place for those who prey
(Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)

Frank: Hide it in a hiding place where no one ever goes
Put it in your pantry with your cupcake friends
It's a little secret, just the Robinsons' affair
Most of all, you've got to hide it from the news

Coo, coo, ca-choo, Mrs Robinson
Franky loves you and shall never leave (Wo, wo, wo)
God bless you please, Mrs. Robinson
Heaven holds a place for those who pay me well
(Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)

Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon
Going to plunder your bank account and more
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you've got to choose
Ev'ry way you look at it, you lose

Carlace: Where have you gone Franky Rip Off Artist
A nation turns its beady eyes to you (Woo, woo, woo)

Frank: What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson
Joltin' Frank has left and gone away (and your life is ruined)
(Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Thanks Zorba for the translation. They know, we know, everybody knows. I wonder who wrote those nasty letters and what they were all about? I would like to see a more specific article to see what the pressures exactly consists of and where they come from. There are also many unanswered questions about the Appeal trial. Who exactly was responsible for replacing the judges etc.. At least, Perugia doesn't just bow down to the pressures and they are not afraid to express their concerns.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

that bit always did my head in too Nell

Thing is the more they keep saying that, the worse they make it look, and the more they make it clear that it is a lie that Knox was one of Meredith's friends; nope, after a little while it turned out that Knox was only an acquaintance through circumstance and not worthy of friendship, as a result of her own behaviour and lack of manners.

She freaked people out.

Anyhow, I've always thought that Knox had the eyes of a shithouse rat, in every photo, every image, no matter which MASK she puts on.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

max wrote:
Thanks Zorba for the translation. They know, we know, everybody knows. I wonder who wrote those nasty letters and what they were all about? I would like to see a more specific article to see what the pressures exactly consists of and where they come from. There are also many unanswered questions about the Appeal trial. Who exactly was responsible for replacing the judges etc. At least, Perugia doesn't just bow down to the pressures and they are not afraid to express their concerns.



One thing I can get from that translation is that the Italians wish to make it clear that they feel deeply insulted by this under the belt, incredibly naive treatment of them, where they are as much as saying that they think that these pressure groups imagine they can blackmail Italy, but that Perugia is having none of it.

It means that the effects of everything they have been up to in Seattle may backfire on them as these things are taken very seriously in Italy, there was the case in North Italy, where Franzoni was out on bail accused of murdering her son, but in the meantime she created Media Mayhem too and they (the judges) took a very grave view of her having done that.

Indeed, from the translation I couldn't understand (for sure) whether it was the Mayor sending off angry letters or that bodies in Perugia had been receiving them and this was part of the pressure exercises heaped upon Italians.

I think the pressure has more to do with the buying up of all things media in America and it is this that they in Perugia defined as ''powerful'', as you have to be powerful to be able to do that, and the person with the power obviously was the media manipulator and owner of the PR firm hired by the family.

Therefore I feel the Mayor may have expedited a number of angry letters, after all, the case should not have been used as a tool of blackmail, like taking away what had already been agreed, the area of green in Seattle, designated for Perugia, this was an insult and is obviously totally incorrect behaviour, no matter which way you look at it.

And it says that Italy had received some repeated assurances from American sources saying/pointing out that the pressure was from these (Seattle) groups who in fact do not consider the case, do not understand it, do not take it into account, with all of their ranting and applying pressure through using the media as a tool of manipulation, which is a very bad and wrong practice as it means it SHITS on the legal system of a country and is a matter of aggression and force in order to get your way, which is what barbarians do, not civilized peoples.

But as long as you have those TV News Shows, with the people on them presenting things looking like they are Thunderbirds puppets, then not a lot can get articulated, never by people such as those resembling robots without own minds, anyway.

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Frank writes on his FB page:

Quote:
Frank Sfarzo The more bs pmf write the better will be for my lawyers....
Yesterday at 09:48 · 2


You cannot afford any lawyers, dear. Last time I checked, you couldn't even pay for your own room. So you call your stay in Hawaii a holiday? Are you sure your reason to be on that island is not just because you don't have enough money to leave?

I wonder how the Italian court will take it that you left Italy for a "holiday" despite the fact that you had a court hearing. Well, I guess you can always say that it's not your fault, because you were arrested in Hawaii and missed your flight.


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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:10 am   Post subject: Re: PHONE CALL WITH BETTINA   

Ergon wrote:
I called her back this early in the morning to get an update, but also ask some questions that were raised in my previous call and her statements. The story has blown up and many things have been said about her by Frank on the IIP website. Bettina stands by her words. She does not know if the charges have been dropped yet or not, since she asked the PD to get him off the island. Instead, Frank is staying in a hotel, and so far has sent three threatening texts saying he is going to sue her for defamation. I asked why she didn't report this harassment to the police and she says she's living in an isolated community and the whole thing has been such a burden to her all she wants is no further problems and just get him away from her. But, since he circulated a letter about her to his supporters containing many falsehoods she decided to tell her side and let honesty be her defense.

This is what she said, which I post with her permission. If she sees any discrepancies (it's now 2;30 am :) she'll correct me when she logs on, and I've encouraged her to write the rest in her own words directly in the main thread. She'll also answer questions as they come up. She made it clear she does not wish to harm anyone, many who have quietly told her their own stories of being abused by Frank, but also, pleaded with her to keep their names out of it.

She wonders why he was charged in Perugia. When I tell her about the reported charges, that it was his mother and sister who called the police, and he got angry with them, she's shocked, saying Frank has been peddling the lie all over that it was PM Mignini who sent them after him for no reason, when it really was a mirror of her own experience with him.

Many people tried to warn her about his misogyny but she wouldn't listen. She missed the celebration Frank had at a big party in Seattle, so she invited him to visit on the Island. Next thing she knows, he's telling her he can be there at short notice, if she can pay for the tickets... which she does, unfortunately, even though she is of limited means.

Frank said that he wanted not to return to Italy and she tried to look up waivers for him, but he was trying to convince her to move to Seattle and marry him. Other women have told her that he tried to come on to them at the party, but most are married so he picked on her. She is not interested. When Frank arrives on the island and realizes how modestly she lives he was upset to realize how she would not be able to help him, and that was when he became abusive, but also rude to her neighbors, who are native Hawaiians. After 5 days of it she took him to a hotel, which she paid for, and later tried to convince him to get on his flight. That is when he attacked her. He tried to say she was drunk yet the cops showed him the bottle and how little had been drunk between the two of them. The cops gave her his phone and wallet for safekeeping, and yes, she did call his friends (some of whom are hers as well) asking for help. Many told her similar stories of his behavior but asked her to keep their names out of it. She also says that some of them (among his best supporters who've given him lots of money) tried to pressure her into keeping it quiet.

But she also confirms, since she said it already, that yes, his Canadian host Peter H and he had a bit to drink, then there was an argument and Peter fell down. Frank lied to the police saying Peter tried to molest him, but the police took his passport away when he lied again about how long they knew each other and Peter would not back that up. His supporters in Seattle had to intervene to get his papers back. Bettina is adamant about this; she has known Peter many years and there is NO way that Frank's wild accusation about attempted molestation is true. Peter tried to warn her about Frank but she wouldn't listen. Yet Peter was one of his biggest supporters and sent him lots of money.

Yes, Chris Mellas did tell her that Frank mooched off their family for months, and asked her to delete Amanda's phone number from his phone, which she refused to do. (This mirrors what Steve Shay told me, that some of Amanda's supporters feel that Judge Heavey's antics do her more harm than good. Unfortunately, Frank shores up their Doug Preston fed myth about big bad Mignini)

Bettina confirms that another woman told her the same thing happened to her, but she got rid of Frank right away. She insists she doesn't want to hurt any one, but has been abused and feels she needs to speak up. He appears to not have any money, but is still staying in a hotel (hopefully only until the matter is unresolved)

She is concerned that Frank might leak personal information about her. She's been told he has embarrassing information about her, but still, wants to tell the truth.

Sadly, this is a pattern of abuse that has long been ignored.

Hi...I would like to set the record straight about my info on his Canadian host. I do not know if he drank liquer. I said it was possible. I said it was impossible that he molested Frank. I don't recall saying Peter fell down. I do know that Peter had the police remove him from his home...because he was tired of the mistreatment, as well. Smile, bettina
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi...I am not mentally ill. Maybe an insane artist. I shared a personal tragedy with Frank, that if published will turn everybody against him for revealing. It is that personal.

Thank you, Bettina
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:42 am   Post subject: Re: PHONE CALL WITH BETTINA   

tamale wrote:
Ergon wrote:
I called her back this early in the morning to get an update, but also ask some questions that were raised in my previous call and her statements. The story has blown up and many things have been said about her by Frank on the IIP website. Bettina stands by her words. She does not know if the charges have been dropped yet or not, since she asked the PD to get him off the island. Instead, Frank is staying in a hotel, and so far has sent three threatening texts saying he is going to sue her for defamation. I asked why she didn't report this harassment to the police and she says she's living in an isolated community and the whole thing has been such a burden to her all she wants is no further problems and just get him away from her. But, since he circulated a letter about her to his supporters containing many falsehoods she decided to tell her side and let honesty be her defense.

This is what she said, which I post with her permission. If she sees any discrepancies (it's now 2;30 am :) she'll correct me when she logs on, and I've encouraged her to write the rest in her own words directly in the main thread. She'll also answer questions as they come up. She made it clear she does not wish to harm anyone, many who have quietly told her their own stories of being abused by Frank, but also, pleaded with her to keep their names out of it.

She wonders why he was charged in Perugia. When I tell her about the reported charges, that it was his mother and sister who called the police, and he got angry with them, she's shocked, saying Frank has been peddling the lie all over that it was PM Mignini who sent them after him for no reason, when it really was a mirror of her own experience with him.

Many people tried to warn her about his misogyny but she wouldn't listen. She missed the celebration Frank had at a big party in Seattle, so she invited him to visit on the Island. Next thing she knows, he's telling her he can be there at short notice, if she can pay for the tickets... which she does, unfortunately, even though she is of limited means.

Frank said that he wanted not to return to Italy and she tried to look up waivers for him, but he was trying to convince her to move to Seattle and marry him. Other women have told her that he tried to come on to them at the party, but most are married so he picked on her. She is not interested. When Frank arrives on the island and realizes how modestly she lives he was upset to realize how she would not be able to help him, and that was when he became abusive, but also rude to her neighbors, who are native Hawaiians. After 5 days of it she took him to a hotel, which she paid for, and later tried to convince him to get on his flight. That is when he attacked her. He tried to say she was drunk yet the cops showed him the bottle and how little had been drunk between the two of them. The cops gave her his phone and wallet for safekeeping, and yes, she did call his friends (some of whom are hers as well) asking for help. Many told her similar stories of his behavior but asked her to keep their names out of it. She also says that some of them (among his best supporters who've given him lots of money) tried to pressure her into keeping it quiet.

But she also confirms, since she said it already, that yes, his Canadian host Peter H and he had a bit to drink, then there was an argument and Peter fell down. Frank lied to the police saying Peter tried to molest him, but the police took his passport away when he lied again about how long they knew each other and Peter would not back that up. His supporters in Seattle had to intervene to get his papers back. Bettina is adamant about this; she has known Peter many years and there is NO way that Frank's wild accusation about attempted molestation is true. Peter tried to warn her about Frank but she wouldn't listen. Yet Peter was one of his biggest supporters and sent him lots of money.

Yes, Chris Mellas did tell her that Frank mooched off their family for months, and asked her to delete Amanda's phone number from his phone, which she refused to do. (This mirrors what Steve Shay told me, that some of Amanda's supporters feel that Judge Heavey's antics do her more harm than good. Unfortunately, Frank shores up their Doug Preston fed myth about big bad Mignini)

Bettina confirms that another woman told her the same thing happened to her, but she got rid of Frank right away. She insists she doesn't want to hurt any one, but has been abused and feels she needs to speak up. He appears to not have any money, but is still staying in a hotel (hopefully only until the matter is unresolved)

She is concerned that Frank might leak personal information about her. She's been told he has embarrassing information about her, but still, wants to tell the truth.

Sadly, this is a pattern of abuse that has long been ignored.

Hi...I would like to set the record straight about my info on his Canadian host. I do not know if he drank liquer. I said it was possible. I said it was impossible that he molested Frank. I don't recall saying Peter fell down. I do know that Peter had the police remove him from his home...because he was tired of the mistreatment, as well. Smile, bettina


Hi Bettina and thank you for your clarification.

According to you Frank was removed by police from the home of his host in Canada. Why was that necessary? Did he refuse to leave? Do you know if Frank Sfarzo was deported from Canada after his passport was taken or did he leave and relocate to the U.S. voluntarily with the financial help of other supporters?

Do you have any information about what are his plans? Has he found another host willing to support him financially?

Thanks in advance.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

tamale wrote:
Hi...I am not mentally ill. Maybe an insane artist. I shared a personal tragedy with Frank, that if published will turn everybody against him for revealing. It is that personal.

Thank you, Bettina


And some of us have had personal experiences which make it impossible to remain objective in terms of your story. Which is why some of us will not question you.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Oh, besides KayPea, there are others who know about Frank's reputation ...

Olive Yew on Facebook wrote:
But could I put up with him?? I hear he is a brat. Plus he doesn't send me enough presents.
19 August at 05:16
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:02 am   Post subject: REPLY TO TAMALE   

Hi, Bettina,

I understand your need for clarification given that Frank has made further threats against you.

Some of what I wrote was taken from the "Today Over AT PMF" page where it was Bruce Fischer who posted Frank's version that there was liquor involved, and that Peter fell down after an argument, and he mentioned that was an accident.

If you recall our phone conversation on Sunday November 11, then I have in my notes what we discussed, and you confirmed that Frank made the allegation against Peter, when the Canadian officers came, and that Frank is now barred from Canada.

I'm sure there was liquor involved, :) here are the posts about the party:

Quote:
e740jph Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011 Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:09 pm
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:47 pm
Posts: 74
Location: British Columbia, Canada

"Pray for me!
Frank and Bill Williams and a bottle of Screetch and a bottle of North Korean Brandy are showing up tomorrow night at my place. What are my odds at surviving the night ...


Quote:
e740jph Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011 Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:44 pm
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:47 pm
Posts: 74
Location: British Columbia, Canada

"Frank is in Canada and has now been officially 'screeched' - thanks Bill W

For once I beat Bill to the 'punch'. Cheers and thanks, Bill

p.s. No, there is plenty left, Bill brought the 'supersized' version. And, Anglo, we survived it contrary to your prognostications ...."


Here's the picture:

Image

Also here, http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69 ... cc848.jpg/ and I saved it as well in case it er, disappears :)

I am sorry for what Peter went through as well. At the age of 71, he does not deserve this, and if ever he wants to clarify what happened, he's always welcome to do so here. I see he's stopped posting on Injustice-Anywhere, his last post being August 30?

Nor do you deserve what you went through either, no matter the exact circumstances of what transpired in the hotel. You already told me about the 5 days of abuse that occurred before. I understand that you are concerned about Frank leaking your personal history, and that he has made further threats online about suing you and also, by text on your phone. I sent you a PM with updates, please check it.

I have no interest in this beyond making sure you are all right.

Best,
Ergon
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Someone like that probably keeps a mental note on all sorts of people. I imagine he gathers information on the sly or in confidence to use when the relationship fails to provide what he wants. There could be more to it an maybe he knows too much so they feel the need to keep feeding or protecting the M of Perugia.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

malvern wrote:
Someone like that probably keeps a mental note on all sorts of people. I imagine he gathers information on the sly or in confidence to use when the relationship fails to provide what he wants. There could be more to it an maybe he knows too much so they feel the need to keep feeding or protecting the M of Perugia.


Abusers tend to be charming at the beginning, and I think he was able to keep that pose up long enough to attract quite a few women that way, malvern, though I think he's running out of marks. But yes, you can see the way Bruce Fischer decided that Bettina was lying after she posted on .NET, my impression is that yes, they want to avoid embarassment if he turns against them, (imagine the dirty laundry!) but really, they're all trying to protect their media projects, most of which were fueled by the stuff peddled by Preston, Spezi, and Sfarzo.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

What about these Three Amigos? How does the good reverend reconcile Christianity and violent outbursts (shouting, throwing things, ...) and bullying behavior of his 'friend'?

Attachment:
The Three Amigos-2.jpg


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:34 am   Post subject: UPDATE RE FRANCESCO SFORZA, AKA FRANK SFARZO   

Here I was thinking I'd already wasted too much time on Frank, then he does the bone headed thing again. Bruce Fischer may want to know that yes, though Frank's case was dismissed, (on November 19, 2012), it was 'without prejudice'. I spoke to the Kona District Court, Third Division office, today, and they confirmed it meant that the case was still open and he could be brought back at any time if there's a recurrence of the harassment. They wouldn't give the case file number over the phone, but (had a hard time finding it, since it was under the name Francesco Sforca-a misspelling of Sforza, I'm sure) did confirm the details I'm giving.

I let the court know that Frank was supposed to be in Italy for another court hearing on a similar charge, and the nice lady that answered my questions shared the irony of this.

Bettina told me that Frank, being Frank, has sent several threatening texts to her, so I let the court know of this development, and that she can file another complaint and have him arrested again. She can then request a restraining order, or even make it a requirement of avoiding jail time that he leave Hawaii. Bettina told me, quite emphatically, that she does NOT have any of Frank's property, so he may want to revise his FB post, which is still up, by the way, that "I have been robbed by a member of pmf, who I will report to the police tomorrow if I don't receive my belongings back", in the same way I posted Bettina's clarification she did not know how long he was in jail except the overnight, and I also posted I-A's denial as well.

I see Bruce has issued an attack on Bettina's credibility and that he finds the statements not believable. He might want to look to Frank and advise him to stop issuing threats, they make him look foolish and really get him off the island he seems to want to stay in. He might want to stop attacking me too, since it is just a simple matter to find out whether he's barred from entering Canada, and the circumastances thereof. And if Bruce will not do that, then perhaps one of Frank's 'friends'?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Back to Dempsey and her book. What a fool she is, basing her entire book on personal opinions of a women abuser ("Frank is my friend, bla bla bla"). Her poor choice of source material may well come back to bite her later (I've heard people say that Sfarzo bites, too! :shock: )

In Chapter 14 ("Sex as a Gateway Crime to Murder") Dempsey heavily criticizes Judge Matteini's report, describing it "... as spellbinding as a crime thriller."

Candace Dempsey wrote:
She [Matteini] framed Meredith Kercher's murder as a morality tale, complete with a beautiful victim, heroic police officers, and depraved student killers. Concocted before police received the forensic results from Rome, based on scanty knowledge of the suspects, this page turning tale of lust and betrayal would linger in the minds of conspiracy theorists [I guess she means us?], judges, and jurors like a perfectly cast film noir.

Judge Matteini could have dubbed her opus "The Mignini Report", so closely did it mirror the prosecution's drug-fueled sex game (gioco erotico) crime theory.


Concocted? Bad choice of words to describe the judge's report; Matteini was required by law to write the Motivations and state reasons for her decision to keep the three suspects in jail.

As for the prosecution's "drug-fueled sex-game theory", none of the prosecutors has presented it as such. Well, at least not until much, much later anyway. This is Dempsey's own invention and a totally false claim. What Arturo De Felice actually said at the Nov 6 press conference was that "the English girl died fighting off a sexual attack, launched by a trio of friends", which is absolutely correct.

Nowhere did he say that it was a "sex game gone wrong" or an "orgy”. Where did she get that? Is Dempsey once again being a bit loose with the facts there? Yes, news organizations were more than happy to print sensational headlines like "Kercher killed after refusing orgy" but no one from the prosecutor's office was the source of those headlines, and yet she further writes ridiculing Mignini and De Felice:

Candace Dempsey in Chapter 10, p.160 wrote:
De Felice didn't explain how the prosecutor could weave an orgy gone wrong story out of Amanda's baffling "confession" about a single attacker, a scream in the night, and the murder she didn't see because she was in the kitchen.


Of course, we know that Dempsey is notorious for twisting the facts and suppressing information unfavorable to "the Seattle girl." I think that we could have skipped this entire book and not have missed a thing...
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:28 am   Post subject: MORE OF THE SAME FRANK?   

One more thing, then I really ought to get some sleep. Since Bruce says he has seen the police report, when will he be posting it for the benefit of his members? He's made several statements attacking Bettina's credibilty and deriding her recollection of facts after what clearly was a traumatic time for her. Or will this be another case of the selective withholding of case files that the FOA have done over the years? But accuse Mignini and and Stefanoni of doing?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
What about these Three Amigos? How does the good reverend reconcile Christianity and violent outbursts (shouting, throwing things, ...) and bullying behavior of his 'friend'?

Attachment:
The Three Amigos-2.jpg


Besides trying to hook bachelor Frank up with eligible females, he also takes his confession and seems otherwise flirtatious.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:04 am   Post subject: Re: UPDATE RE FRANCESCO SFORZA, AKA FRANK SFARZO   

Ergon wrote:
Here I was thinking I'd already wasted too much time on Frank, then he does the bone headed thing again. Bruce Fischer may want to know that yes, though Frank's case was dismissed, (on November 19, 2012), it was 'without prejudice'. I spoke to the Kona District Court, Third Division office, today, and they confirmed it meant that the case was still open and he could be brought back at any time if there's a recurrence of the harassment. They wouldn't give the case file number over the phone, but (had a hard time finding it, since it was under the name Francesco Sforca-a misspelling of Sforza, I'm sure) did confirm the details I'm giving.

I let the court know that Frank was supposed to be in Italy for another court hearing on a similar charge, and the nice lady that answered my questions shared the irony of this.

Bettina told me that Frank, being Frank, has sent several threatening texts to her, so I let the court know of this development, and that she can file another complaint and have him arrested again. She can then request a restraining order, or even make it a requirement of avoiding jail time that he leave Hawaii. Bettina told me, quite emphatically, that she does NOT have any of Frank's property, so he may want to revise his FB post, which is still up, by the way, that "I have been robbed by a member of pmf, who I will report to the police tomorrow if I don't receive my belongings back", in the same way I posted Bettina's clarification she did not know how long he was in jail except the overnight, and I also posted I-A's denial as well.

I see Bruce has issued an attack on Bettina's credibility and that he finds the statements not believable. He might want to look to Frank and advise him to stop issuing threats, they make him look foolish and really get him off the island he seems to want to stay in. He might want to stop attacking me too, since it is just a simple matter to find out whether he's barred from entering Canada, and the circumastances thereof. And if Bruce will not do that, then perhaps one of Frank's 'friends'?


Bruce Fischer claims impartiality but that couldn't be further from the truth. He deleted Bettina's original posts, but left Frank's version online. Then there are his veiled threats that embarrassing details about Bettina could be revealed. Speculations and complaints about Bettina are allowed to be published and let stand, but she is not given a voice.

It should be remembered that the people who have chosen to call the police on three different occasions to have Frank removed were people who wanted him no harm, to the contrary, they supported him. In Perugia his family, in Canada his supporter who allowed him to stay with him and in Hawaii another supporter of Frank's. Frank's supporters spent substantial amounts of money and he treated them so badly that they had to call the police to get rid of him.

What are the odds that they all got it wrong or that this was some kind of misunderstanding? The chances are nil.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I would just like to add a few words of kindness at this point, here goes,

hey, Carlton Dempspray (I do not like giving this person Google Rating help) looks like the recipient of a corpse-donated face, in an operation that failed, after her own one was torn off by a chimp.

Indeed, this person made up things all the time, living in a dreamworld as she apparently does, she thought she could dictate facts of murder, yet, because of those with a need to twist facts, she has been a help to them, so as far as the prizes go 1 to 10 for candidates to be recommended for delivery into the hands of the devil, give the gorgonzola skinned top model a 10

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Happy Thanksgiving to our American friends hugz-)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
Happy Thanksgiving to our American friends hugz-)



Hi Ergon, I'm guessing one needs to experience it first-hand if not American, we don't have it in Britain, in fact, we must be ungrateful but then, so are those turkeys ahaha.


Getting hungry, do people in Canada and America eat the real dark greens that kids all detest while growing up (in Britain anyhow), I mean more than sprouts even?
I'm thinking of these now because of turkey, the one's available, I mean real GREENS, are almost black so dark but very healthy as are the dark varieties of plants having absorbed more energy.

Dinner time, ding dong!

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Happy Thanksgiving, all. And Zorba, no, in my house, we don't have greens. Brussel sprouts are as close as we get.
As to how we celebrate, while I think turkey is a given, the balance of the day is open to individual interpretation.
My niece and her three almost grown sons choose today to serve in a local soup kitchen. My brother will call me at some point today, from across the country, first to choose a football team to fight over with my father, and second, to ask me if I have mailed him his half of the turkey gizzard yet. We fought over it every Thanksgiving for as long as I can remember, and the memory of it continues for the both of us.

In my home, the kitchen has officially been declared a disaster zone, as my 5 helpers are all learning the traditions passed down from my mother, and flour and bits of celery are everywhere. All parts of memories.

We break the wishbone here, and with 5 contenders, choosing 2 became a problem, until we resolved it with a contest.
Whoever comes up with the most interesting question of the day wins the wishbone, and can choose a partner for the snap. The little one has already won the honor this year, hands down, with her question: "Can a bug sneeze?" Top that one.

We have an all American feast. Items must be made, or grown or manufactured in the USA in order to be served. I can already see a difference this year, as they are getting older. Last year, easy-peasy. This year, the oldest one went online to check out Morton Salt. The label says Chicago, Ill, but she is making the point that they have a salt mine in Quebec, (hi, Ergon and all of our frineds in Canada), so maybe she won't use the salt. See where this is going?

All in all, for me, it is about being grateful, for memories and traditions, both past and future. But, it is not limited to family. For years, my mother shared our table with an old lady. A neighbor. To this day, I have no real clue exactly who she was, but she was part of our celebration.

Point being, it's a day for being grateful. and passing it on. And it doesn't have to be with family. This recipe works equally well with friends, and even strangers. I've seen it happen. Anyway, back to work.
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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:04 pm   Post subject: Re: UPDATE RE FRANCESCO SFORZA, AKA FRANK SFARZO   

Nell wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Here I was thinking I'd already wasted too much time on Frank, then he does the bone headed thing again. Bruce Fischer may want to know that yes, though Frank's case was dismissed, (on November 19, 2012), it was 'without prejudice'. I spoke to the Kona District Court, Third Division office, today, and they confirmed it meant that the case was still open and he could be brought back at any time if there's a recurrence of the harassment. They wouldn't give the case file number over the phone, but (had a hard time finding it, since it was under the name Francesco Sforca-a misspelling of Sforza, I'm sure) did confirm the details I'm giving.

I let the court know that Frank was supposed to be in Italy for another court hearing on a similar charge, and the nice lady that answered my questions shared the irony of this.

Bettina told me that Frank, being Frank, has sent several threatening texts to her, so I let the court know of this development, and that she can file another complaint and have him arrested again. She can then request a restraining order, or even make it a requirement of avoiding jail time that he leave Hawaii. Bettina told me, quite emphatically, that she does NOT have any of Frank's property, so he may want to revise his FB post, which is still up, by the way, that "I have been robbed by a member of pmf, who I will report to the police tomorrow if I don't receive my belongings back", in the same way I posted Bettina's clarification she did not know how long he was in jail except the overnight, and I also posted I-A's denial as well.

I see Bruce has issued an attack on Bettina's credibility and that he finds the statements not believable. He might want to look to Frank and advise him to stop issuing threats, they make him look foolish and really get him off the island he seems to want to stay in. He might want to stop attacking me too, since it is just a simple matter to find out whether he's barred from entering Canada, and the circumastances thereof. And if Bruce will not do that, then perhaps one of Frank's 'friends'?


Bruce Fischer claims impartiality but that couldn't be further from the truth. He deleted Bettina's original posts, but left Frank's version online. Then there are his veiled threats that embarrassing details about Bettina could be revealed. Speculations and complaints about Bettina are allowed to be published and let stand, but she is not given a voice.

It should be remembered that the people who have chosen to call the police on three different occasions to have Frank removed were people who wanted him no harm, to the contrary, they supported him. In Perugia his family, in Canada his supporter who allowed him to stay with him and in Hawaii another supporter of Frank's. Frank's supporters spent substantial amounts of money and he treated them so badly that they had to call the police to get rid of him.

What are the odds that they all got it wrong or that this was some kind of misunderstanding? The chances are nil.


Impartiality is bollocks frankly. I totally agree with the post above. When someone's Italian mother is calling the police for him being abusive, you know things are seriously out of hand - Italian mothers forgive ANYTHING that their sons do so Mama S must have been genuinely in fear. As for the assertion on IIP that I'm throwing around facts with no evidence, I'd invite you to read the story above from Bettina. As far as I can see, there's the word of three people including Mama Sforza with firsthand experience of Frank's attitude issues, a police statement to corroborate one of the tales followed by a load of people backing up with their opinions that Frank is a complete brat who is no stranger to throwing a tantrum - who should we believe? Frank? *facepalm*

Also, if IIP have issues with Bettina's story considering the statement from the Hawaii police then it speaks volumes about the way they operate. According to the IIP rationale , Knox could go home waving a knife and making threats, Edda could call the police terrified and Brucie would still believe Amanda. This is what is happening with Frank and Bettina. Also to allude to Bettina's personal problems is snide. She could be certifiable (I have no knowledge of any personal issues of Bettina, this is an example) but it doesn't amend or excuse what Frank did. *throws up hands in surrender* How can you reason with that? You're not fighting injustice Bruce, you're following your own agenda and for some reason having Frank as an innocent is helpful to your agenda, why is that?

You know, I wouldn't cross the road to spit on Chris Mellas if he was burning (nor he me, I'm sure) BUT according to Bettina's evidence, I'm happy that Chris and I agree on something and especially pleased that the something is Frank Sforza as it means Chris has seen through him. I would never wish his family to be taken advantage of like it seems they have. If they have paid any money to Frank then I'm genuinely sorry they were taken in by this "man".

Honestly? My message to Frank? I'm sitting by my letterbox mate, anxiously awaiting my legal letter. Literally, there is nothing I want more than a legal letter from Sforza threatening action - I think I may speak for more than myself there too. Bring it on Frankie boy, put your (lack of) money where your very big mouth is. Anyone else think that Frank is, to coin an apt phrase, all fur coat and no knickers?
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Offline MilesK


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
I would just like to add a few words of kindness at this point, here goes,

hey, Carlton Dempspray (I do not like giving this person Google Rating help) looks like the recipient of a corpse-donated face after her own one was torn off by a chimp.



These are not words of kindness. I think you are confused about the meaning of kindness. As a long-time reader here, I am quite disappointed.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

MilesK wrote:
zorba wrote:
I would just like to add a few words of kindness at this point, here goes,

hey, Carlton Dempspray (I do not like giving this person Google Rating help) looks like the recipient of a corpse-donated face after her own one was torn off by a chimp.



These are not words of kindness. I think you are confused about the meaning of kindness. As a long-time reader here, I am quite disappointed.


And you registered just to say this? Do tell what user names you use when you condemned posters on The Knox Sollecito fan pages when they called the Kerchers all sort of names? zorba uses satire, much as Jonathan Swift did, and I think your concern is faked.
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Offline MilesK


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
MilesK wrote:
zorba wrote:
I would just like to add a few words of kindness at this point, here goes,

hey, Carlton Dempspray (I do not like giving this person Google Rating help) looks like the recipient of a corpse-donated face after her own one was torn off by a chimp.



These are not words of kindness. I think you are confused about the meaning of kindness. As a long-time reader here, I am quite disappointed.


And you registered just to say this? Do tell what user names you use when you condemned posters on The Knox Sollecito fan pages when they called the Kerchers all sort of names? zorba uses satire, much as Jonathan Swift did, and I think your concern is faked.


I have not read the Knox Sollecito fan pages. If I did see anyone call the Kerchers names I would have registered there to say the same thing. My concern is not faked. I have been reading here for many months and mostly I find this site to be informative. Sorry I did not get the satire; it just hit me as really mean.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

daisysteiner wrote:
Honestly? My message to Frank? I'm sitting by my letterbox mate, anxiously awaiting my legal letter. Literally, there is nothing I want more than a legal letter from Sforza threatening action - I think I may speak for more than myself there too. Bring it on Frankie boy, put your (lack of) money where your very big mouth is. Anyone else think that Frank is, to coin an apt phrase, all fur coat and no knickers?


It is not Frank's financial status that denies him legal redress, but the fact that he is legally and morally in the wrong. And he has little cause to complain, since we have afforded him a platform to challenge the accusations against him, faithfully posting here all of his responses to the accusations made.

Rather, it seems he just wants to bully. Well, he won't bully us. As has always been our tradition and is within the very DNA of PMF, and is why they hate us so, we stand up to bullys!

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Gives us a break Dr Miles

I do not care what you think, so please keep your politeness to yourself, I know exactly what I was I saying and why, even if you do not or pretend not to, but me I do not care at all about that, as the people I'm getting at do not care about others, especially Meredith and her family so I will continue to take the piss out of them as I see more than fit.

I guess you are new here.. bla bla bla

My words were not meant to be kind, obviously, as the people they are directed at deserve no such kindness, and if you knew anything then you'd know considering the things they do if they were affected by anything I said it'd be a wonder in your case you have very thin skin especially when it has nothing to do with you at all, mostly I think/expect you don't understand much.

Therefore spare me and save your sanctimonious chat for someone else I'm not in the mood for it at all.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Fancy that, Dempsey herself joining up as she doesn't like me making a point of how she is vain, and an idiot, for flirting with a woman abuser and misguiding people about this case, who gives a flying f anyway about how anyone looks, it's about a whole lot more than that, it's a about a nasty, not young married woman (according to her), flirting with an Italian who turns out to be an abuser of all things female including his own family members, who has also been, like her, latching onto this case in order to profit off the back of it, off the back of it meaning from Meredith's murder, the murder of Meredith.


Long time reader joined today to preach, yeah sure

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Last edited by zorba on Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

MilesK wrote:
Ergon wrote:
MilesK wrote:
zorba wrote:
I would just like to add a few words of kindness at this point, here goes,

hey, Carlton Dempspray (I do not like giving this person Google Rating help) looks like the recipient of a corpse-donated face after her own one was torn off by a chimp.



These are not words of kindness. I think you are confused about the meaning of kindness. As a long-time reader here, I am quite disappointed.


And you registered just to say this? Do tell what user names you use when you condemned posters on The Knox Sollecito fan pages when they called the Kerchers all sort of names? zorba uses satire, much as Jonathan Swift did, and I think your concern is faked.


I have not read the Knox Sollecito fan pages. If I did see anyone call the Kerchers names I would have registered there to say the same thing. My concern is not faked. I have been reading here for many months and mostly I find this site to be informative. Sorry I did not get the satire; it just hit me as really mean.


Fair enough, MilesK. Zorba's replied to you, so move on. What's your opinion of the case?
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Offline louiehaha


Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:13 am

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Frank's US visit:
Started: Friday, July 20, 2012
To and including: Thursday, November 22, 2012
126 Days. At least two people claim abuse during this period.

Who is Frank’s employer sponsor, and where is he/she now?
I hope Bettina will respond to this, what type of visa does Frank have, who sponsored him, who urged the Homeland Security/State Dept to minimize his active criminal case in Italy as some vast Perugian conspiracy to persecute bloggers, and what work, if any, has he done in the US?

A work visa isn’t to be abused like this, there are millions who want to come here to WORK, yet someone escorted this Feral Fabulist to the front of the line, having done no due diligence on the criminal charges he faces in Italy, or even having lined up work for him. SHAMEFUL.

He claims to be vacationing when he pleaded he was here to work. He’s abusing his visa as well as those who step up to help and support him. Whoever his sponsor is (Preston? Heavey? Knox/Mellas? Wright? CPJ?) has an obligation to take care of the problem, and should be liable for their charge’s damages. And it sounds like the damages are mounting.

Stay safe Bettina.

Happy Thanksgiving all.
And to Zorba, we’re having kale, spinach & romaine for greens, although the romaine is in a decadent Caesar salad.

PS I honestly didn't think anyone would fall for Frank's claim that he was FRAMED, but there is actually someone showing off how gullible they are over on IIP claiming that this is possible. (KayPea)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ha ha framed

It never stops

Hey Louie thanks, so today 'is' special food say in America right, I can just imagine it, I didn't know kale was eaten in the states, I don't even know what the proper name is for the UK variety of most dark green vegetable in existence, because nobody ever refers to it other than as greens.

I think we ough to go for uniformity and call everything descriptively, so red for strawberries, though, that's confusing what with tomatoes, anyway we do have oranges, greens, then bananas not yellows; someone way back when started the colour system but then bumped into strawberries, raspberries and tomatoes all in a morning and gave it up.

I think now you said it I'm going to get some spinach, darn missed my flu jab and I think that it is now too late but feel like I need something fortifying today.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hey yes an ordinary stay for Europeans, as far as I know, lasts 90 days, and no visa, via the visa waiving system, on the condition that you have no criminal record, but possibly that you are not in the process of going to court though that may not be so, then again, I think it must be relevant, because they could hardly allow people to not need a visa or to provide any info if they are out on bail and up on murder charges, I'm pretty sure that in that case, America would want to know and would say, well maybe he/.she hasn't been through the courts yet and maybe he/she is not guilty but hey., let's not take any chances, we do'nt want this coming in, until it's certain what is what.

Therefore, I tend to think if you are dealing with a law system elsewhere, that it would tend to mean you would not get into the USA if the authorities are aware of this.

I think a small kind letter to the government in America would not be out of place, someone, I say kind, yes, another word, reasonable, it's reasonable for someone to make the authorities aware of matters, after all, if this guy is a Sollecito big-chum, then how much needs to happen before people/authorities become concerned, after all, on own merit Frankenstein has three aggression cases going for him, and then a chum who is still tangled up in a murder, well, if one is to say nothing, think nothing and do nothing, might as well knock down all of the prisons and let all of the other killers and abusers out.


I think it will be an act of kindness to allow Frank to have to go back to Perugia before he gets in any more trouble, he's a dog that's had its day and needs keeping on a short leash.

I expect his dear mother started going to church every day since his absence, just to thank Gods for helping get him out of her hair. I expect he'd been talking about his inheritance since he was 10 and just creeping his mom out.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

(( OT OT )) Happy Thanksgiving to all our readers!!!

And because it's Thanksgiving and because things have been pretty heavy of late, the best way to blow off steam is to have a great big happy sing-song together. I love these guys! Enjoy!



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Offline MilesK


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
Fair enough, MilesK. Zorba's replied to you, so move on. What's your opinion of the case?


Yes zorba replied. I guess that was sarcasm too. I think they had something to do with it but I don't know what. That is why I read all of this. I do not see how they could have cleaned up so well to leave such few traces because I don't think they were smart enough to do this. I tend to think they set up Rudy going to meet Meredith to be a joke and it got out of control. I am just really not sure what exactly happened. They clearly know something and are hiding this knowledge. I am still reading much of the official material about the case so I am not an expert about all the evidence like all of you yet. What fan sites were you referencing in your earlier post? I cannot find any fan sites to see where nasty things are posted about the Kerchers. I don't understand why anyone would post nasty things about her family.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

MilesK wrote:
I do not see how they could have cleaned up so well to leave such few traces because I don't think they were smart enough to do this.


Except they didn't leave 'so few traces' did they? That's the whole point...the amount of evidence against them.

Did you know, that in most violent murders, one is lucky just to find just one forensic trace against a suspect?

Start with the Massei Report: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=259

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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

MilesK wrote:
I do not see how they could have cleaned up so well to leave such few traces because I don't think they were smart enough to do this.


They didn't remove the abundant amount of Sollecito's DNA from Meredith's bra clasp or his bloody footprint from the bathmat. They didn't clean up the mixed traces of Meredith's and Knox's blood. They didn't remove all the traces of Meredith's DNA from the kitchen knife in Sollecito's kitchen. Last but not least, they didn't completely remove their bloody footprints from the corridor.

Surprisingly, there was only instance of Guede's DNA on Meredith's body. How would you account for this?


Last edited by The Machine on Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Sparkles


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

MilesK wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Fair enough, MilesK. Zorba's replied to you, so move on. What's your opinion of the case?


Yes zorba replied. I guess that was sarcasm too. I think they had something to do with it but I don't know what. That is why I read all of this. I do not see how they could have cleaned up so well to leave such few traces because I don't think they were smart enough to do this. I tend to think they set up Rudy going to meet Meredith to be a joke and it got out of control. I am just really not sure what exactly happened. They clearly know something and are hiding this knowledge. I am still reading much of the official material about the case so I am not an expert about all the evidence like all of you yet. What fan sites were you referencing in your earlier post? I cannot find any fan sites to see where nasty things are posted about the Kerchers. I don't understand why anyone would post nasty things about her family.



Miles - the worst page at the moment IMHO is Free Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/10975028253/?fref=ts

There are others equally as awful - in this case admin did not take such posts down - so by default these awful things posts about the family of a murder victim is sanctioned. If you read the thread that Diane Trimble started about her "letter to Cosmo about Stephanie Kerchers award" you will see what I mean. There are several posters that directly attack the Kercher family and their motives and worse than that directly at Meredith herself.

Speechless...
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Here we go again

I will not even bother explaining what I think

the things people will say, in order to get an entrance and gain trust.

But then that soon changes, often within the hour and then the politeness too, that disappears immediately anyone challenges what is going down.

Look at that pervert Danny, agreeing, sympathetic yet each time slipping bits in, only in the end to turn out to be a total fraud, but there were others cleverer than he was, as he never managed to really disturb the harmony, others did/have though... sometimes, one good person defending them another good person calling them right out, in the end it often turned out those with a sixth sense for that and had done the calling out were right all along. Me I told Danny to go screw himself sharp, long before he gave his wee game away.

Politeness is right when it's deserved. But it's entirely impolite to do things under false pretences and in relation to and in light of this severe case and then it is unspeakably cruel to play around and lie, so I'm not taking it at all.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Miles I was not being sarcastic to you, I cannot be nice about this, I was telling you to go f yourself (on the basis of what I think about you) as I am certain you have been here a hundred times under different IDs, so, that is that as far as I'm concerned, even now you could not leave the usual line out, now in a different jacket, of, erhum: I do not know the case as well as all of you yet.

Stop crawling in order to try to make an entrance and gain trust: I think you are a fake

Am I being impolite and or sarcastic?
No because I mean it and I have the right to say what I think.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I think someone is desperately trying to change the conversation away from Frank.

Not surprising, considering so many have a stake in this man and have used him as the central thesis by which to pursue their own agendas. None of them really give a damn about Frank, but they do care a lot about themselves and their agendas.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
I think someone is desperately trying to change the conversation away from Frank.

Not surprising, considering so many have a stake in this man and have used him as the central thesis by which to pursue their own agendas. None of them really give a damn about Frank, but they do care a lot about themselves and their agendas.



Well said Michael, and exactly

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
I think someone is desperately trying to change the conversation away from Frank.

Not surprising, considering so many have a stake in this man and have used him as the central thesis by which to pursue their own agendas. None of them really give a damn about Frank, but they do care a lot about themselves and their agendas.


Michael, Frank will be very angry if any of them try to change the subject. Frank WANTS PMF to keep talking so he can sue us. I'm wondering, when he gets all of this money, will he want to smack us around a little, also? Seems to be his MO. (This is sarcasm, in case the new posters failed to pick up on it).
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
I think someone is desperately trying to change the conversation away from Frank.
Not surprising, considering so many have a stake in this man and have used him as the central thesis by which to pursue their own agendas. None of them really give a damn about Frank, but they do care a lot about themselves and their agendas.

I agree the Frank business needed management. Voila a new member?? Clintnine started posting madly. For brand new member he sure had a lot to say!!! Then a visit here from a reader who had to change the discussion or else what would happen on today over at PMF? Karen might reveal more of her nasty character as she tears into Bettina.
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Offline MilesK


Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:27 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I do not know the case and I do not lie. I have no need to be a part of this group; in fact it took me months to even join. I guess I can’t find the websites you are talking about because I do not do face book. The only other website I have ever joined is an automotive website. They are a much friendlier group, that is for sure. I should have known from the cruel post which caused me to speak up in the first place. As for this website, please remove my membership. I will have to get information somewhere else. I do think you should change your welcome message as it is pleasant and friendly and therefore misleading. If you do not truly want new members perhaps you should announce that before people bother to join, or close the group so people cannot join. I truthfully do not understand all the hatefulness but I am sure others, such as the guy whose face you were describing earlier, will not stay either. Wow.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

MilesK wrote:
I do not know the case and I do not lie. I have no need to be a part of this group; in fact it took me months to even join. I guess I can’t find the websites you are talking about because I do not do face book. The only other website I have ever joined is an automotive website. They are a much friendlier group, that is for sure. I should have known from the cruel post which caused me to speak up in the first place. As for this website, please remove my membership. I will have to get information somewhere else. I do think you should change your welcome message as it is pleasant and friendly and therefore misleading. If you do not truly want new members perhaps you should announce that before people bother to join, or close the group so people cannot join. I truthfully do not understand all the hatefulness but I am sure others, such as the guy whose face you were describing earlier, will not stay either. Wow.



I can assure you, it isn't necessary to be a prima donna. If one no longer wants to be here, then all one needs to do is stop visiting and stop posting. For one who doesn't know about much or care about much in regard to this case, you do seem to like to make a scene.

If, it is true, that you are simply ignorant, then perhaps this will serve as a lesson to you in future to actually make yourself fully aware of what you're jumping into before diving in head first. This is a very serious case about a terrible crime and the family of the victim are still desperately seeking justice. To that end, they and ourselves have had to tolerate nothing but non-stop full-on bullying from those that would rather we all slink away and let the guilty go free. That is what you have jumped into the middle of and I make no apologies for your wetting your nightie over it.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Yes and the bit about the hatefulness

now if this isn't a fake, 'a Bruce Fishkopf, Frank Sfarzo woman bashing mama whopping, sister slapping clone'; I don't know what is

because that is exactly what I mean,
about the willing even to say ''yeah Knox did it'',
just to gain an entrance ticket,
then within no time start to try to cause problems here,
bringing in all kinds of fixed doctrines from the Knox camp
and hatefulness is what THEY do but try to make out we are all about,

when this is not about our hate this is about our anger and disgust with what we think Knox and Sollecito did to Meredith,

with their helper Guede,

and then what they and their families and selection of fruitcakey supporters have continued to do, with their deceit and their denials and their unwillingness to face the truth.

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

MilesK wrote:
I do not know the case and I do not lie. I have no need to be a part of this group; in fact it took me months to even join. I guess I can’t find the websites you are talking about because I do not do face book. The only other website I have ever joined is an automotive website. They are a much friendlier group, that is for sure. I should have known from the cruel post which caused me to speak up in the first place. As for this website, please remove my membership. I will have to get information somewhere else. I do think you should change your welcome message as it is pleasant and friendly and therefore misleading. If you do not truly want new members perhaps you should announce that before people bother to join, or close the group so people cannot join. I truthfully do not understand all the hatefulness but I am sure others, such as the guy whose face you were describing earlier, will not stay either. Wow.


Out of curiosity: How did you find this forum? For someone who doesn't know the case, you sure knew where to join, without having heard of any other website relating to the Meredith Kercher murder case.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
I think someone is desperately trying to change the conversation away from Frank.

Not surprising, considering so many have a stake in this man and have used him as the central thesis by which to pursue their own agendas. None of them really give a damn about Frank, but they do care a lot about themselves and their agendas.


That's my impression too.

When Frank was arrested in Perugia, he claimed it was a conspiracy, orchestrated by prosecutor Giuliano Mignini and the local police, but later it turned out he wasn't assaulted like he claimed, but instead they were called by his own mother and the trial is still pending in Perugia even though he tries to avoid it by staying away from Italy thanks to his generous supporters, two of whom had him arrested too.

Those two supporters must have been sleepers, waiting to strike.

nin-) nin-)
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Even Frank's own mother and sister must be in on it, Nell. Amazing.

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Offline Itchy Brother


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:15 am   Post subject: Let's [not] be Frank   

Greetings folks. It's been many months since my last post but given the (U.S.) holiday and other recent events (The Fund & Frank's meltdown tour) I was drawn back to this site and decided to stop by and say hello and wish Season's Greetings to all the good people I got to know over the years. Forgive me if this post gets a little long because I have several thoughts I want to share.

First, for those who wonder where I went, I got put in charge of a software project which demanded my full attention and placed a severe burden on my free time. My role in that project is finally drawing to a close and, after 30 years with my company, I am retiring on December 1st. (woo-hoo!) I will probably need to find gainful employment again somewhere down the road so I don't know what the future may hold. But right now I'm really looking forward to a long break.

Second, I saw Stephanie's name in the news recently along with an announcement that one or two funds were being established in Meredith's memory. Clander will remember that I pestered him repeatedly :) for any help he could provide regarding the scholarship fund that was announced a couple years ago and seeing some mention of this again inspired me to come here looking for more information. I was happy to find Tara's post with a link to the http://themeredithkercherfund.com/ website and I'm looking forward to finally being able to express my sympathy for the Kercher's in some tangible way.

Finally, regarding this latest imbroglio concerning Frank, I see that nothing much has changed on the Kercher/Knox front. I must admit that I grew tired of the never ending vitriol between the opposing camps. I still believe that Knox and Sollecito were involved in Meredith's murder, but I also accept the possibility that I could be wrong and that reasonable people can disagree on the events surrounding this sad affair. However, Frank's character has no bearing on what took place that evening, only on his credibility as a source of information.

This case has drawn in more than its share share of unsavory characters and I'm fully convinced that Frank is a charter member of that club. I honestly don't understand how people can look at his track record and remain blind to the fact that he has severe personal problems. I read the posts from Bettina and Ergon regarding the recent incidents in Canada and Hawaii and, looking for some balance, I decided to venture over to IIP for the first time to see what they had to say. After wading through post after post of the usual bickering over case minutia, I came upon the following in a post from KayPea:

Quote:
KayPea Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011 PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:05 pm

[...]
I challenged anyone who travels widely and often to prove that their globetrotting has been perfect with no misunderstandings or "issues." Anyone who has not had trouble must be traveling with a security force.

[...]
PS Frank has been in the US for MONTHS with no other issues, what about those facts?


Really? That's your argument in support of Frank's behavior?

At age 18 I left my home in the mid-west to spend three years in Germany. Over the past 30 years I've had the good fortune to travel for business and pleasure to several countries in Europe, Asia, the Middle East, Latin America, and North America. I have literally spent years traveling all over the world. In all of those travels I've had exactly two "issues": a speeding ticket in Oregon and a stolen backpack in Rome (it was empty, quickly discarded, and recovered). And I'm supposed to be impressed that Frank spent a couple months in North America trouble free (allegedly) before he had two run-ins involving the police?!!! Why? Is that some kind of personal best for him?

I can understand how people can argue over footprint forensics and DNA contamination, but for the life of me I can't understand how a man having two violent conflicts involving the police during a single trip abroad can be seen as anything but severely troubled. And people actually want to defend this man?

Anyway, I don't really want to leave this post on such a negative note so let me once again say Happy Holidays to all the good people on both sides of this case. Let us all hope that truth and justice prevails.

(Cross posted to both PMF sites)
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi Itchy Brother,

Good to hear from you and thanks for bringing over a quote from KayPea's comment.

She is making excuses. I traveled all over Europe and overseas for many many years and have not been arrested once. Many of my friends have traveled the world and they haven't been arrested either. She makes it almost sound as if more "issues" were to be expected given his "long" stay.

Frank had a hearing in Perugia for resisting arrest when his mother called them for help because he had beaten his sister. Are those "traveling issues" as well?

There goes the conspiracy theory ...
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Offline Itchy Brother


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
I think someone is desperately trying to change the conversation away from Frank.

Not surprising, considering so many have a stake in this man and have used him as the central thesis by which to pursue their own agendas. None of them really give a damn about Frank, but they do care a lot about themselves and their agendas.


That's my impression too.

When Frank was arrested in Perugia, he claimed it was a conspiracy, orchestrated by prosecutor Giuliano Mignini and the local police, but later it turned out he wasn't assaulted like he claimed, but instead they were called by his own mother and the trial is still pending in Perugia even though he tries to avoid it by staying away from Italy thanks to his generous supporters, two of whom had him arrested too.

Those two supporters must have been sleepers, waiting to strike.

nin-) nin-)


:lol: :lol: :lol:

And I thought Donny was devious. Don't mess with Mignini, he has operatives everywhere.
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Offline Itchy Brother


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Hi Itchy Brother,

Good to hear from you and thanks for bringing over a quote from KayPea's comment.

She is making excuses. I traveled all over Europe and overseas for many many years and have not been arrested once. Many of my friends have traveled the world and they haven't been arrested either. She makes it almost sound as if more "issues" were to be expected given his "long" stay.


Haha! Yes that's what it sounds like.

Thanks for the greetings Nell. It's fun to see so many old-timers still here.
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
What about these Three Amigos? How does the good reverend reconcile Christianity and violent outbursts (shouting, throwing things, ...) and bullying behavior of his 'friend'?

Attachment:
The Three Amigos-2.jpg


Who is the heavyset amigo on the right?
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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Hi Itchy Brother,

Good to hear from you and thanks for bringing over a quote from KayPea's comment.

She is making excuses. I traveled all over Europe and overseas for many many years and have not been arrested once. Many of my friends have traveled the world and they haven't been arrested either. She makes it almost sound as if more "issues" were to be expected given his "long" stay.

Frank had a hearing in Perugia for resisting arrest when his mother called them for help because he had beaten his sister. Are those "traveling issues" as well?

There goes the conspiracy theory ...


I've traveled a lot too with zero issues above being stopped at the odd Spanish checkpoint near Gibraltar (they look for people smugglers and stop every third car at random spots along the Costa de la Luz). Only been "spoken to" in anger by the police once....when I got shouty in Dam Square after one (or seven) too many beers but then they just took me back to my hotel, didn't get arrested BECAUSE I DIDN'T HIT OR SCREAM ABUSE AT ANYONE!

All the conspiracy theories are out of the window, KayPea and Bruce just need to keep talking. Any reasonable person comparing the two sides of the Frank story will see where the truth lies. Hopefully when they do look at the words of three reasonable people against Frank then they will also realise how much else IIP have got wrong. What I do fear now is because IIP realise this, they will now go hell for leather to discredit Bettina and the others in any way they can.
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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi Itchy Brother and Sparkles x
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jackie wrote:
guermantes wrote:
What about these Three Amigos? How does the good reverend reconcile Christianity and violent outbursts (shouting, throwing things, ...) and bullying behavior of his 'friend'?

Attachment:
The Three Amigos-2.jpg


Who is the heavyset amigo on the right?


Hi Jackie,

According to Frank Sfarzo's Facebook page that is Stuart Lyster from Canada. He is a reverend.


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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:

According to Frank Sfarzo's Facebook page that is Stuart Lyster from Canada. He is a reverend.


Hi Nell - There's a reverend on Team Knox?
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jackie wrote:
Nell wrote:

According to Frank Sfarzo's Facebook page that is Stuart Lyster from Canada. He is a reverend.


Hi Nell - There's a reverend on Team Knox?


Yep.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Itchy Brother wrote:
Greetings folks. It's been many months since my last post but given the (U.S.) holiday and other recent events (The Fund & Frank's meltdown tour) I was drawn back to this site and decided to stop by and say hello and wish Season's Greetings to all the good people I got to know over the years. Forgive me if this post gets a little long because I have several thoughts I want to share.


Hey, Itchy, great to see you :) Congratulations on your upcoming retirement...or long break at least.

I really hear you on how tiresome the constant bickering is...

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Hi Itchy,

Congratulations, I could do with an early one myself, I at least need my eyes testing soon as is worse than the other and I find I cannot look at the screen anymore, except early in the day, I can only look with one eye, so I may as well get a pirate's patch and look the part.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I don't know about reverends but looking at Obelixes like that one just presented here, and others that look like envoys from the devil, I can't help thinking they look about as holy as muck!

Apparently the one above ate at least half a dozen parishioners.

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Last edited by zorba on Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

So I wrote a kind of children's story/tale, spontaneously and I just sort of looked at what came out, why I started it about squirrels I'll never know but couldn't help notice that the story moved along to the subject of nuts.

It starts off very nicely, with English country lanes and meadows, but after the introduction of a number of so-called upstanding citizens, one a drunken lawyer, another a strange would-be writer with a bitter potato to peel, another an Italian who in search of gold went off without so much as a pot to piddle in, seeking his fortune on faraway shores, drained an island of its resources and caused famine throughout the land, the squirrel's name is George and he was out hunting for nuts, it got a bit scary, but George got home safely with a nice bindle stick over his little woolly shoulder, full of tasty assorted nuts.

There was a misunderstanding when George started talking to an old woman about needing nuts for his family, who told him she'd had the misfortune of meeting a lot of nuts lately.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:47 pm   Post subject: Re: Let's [not] be Frank   

Itchy Brother wrote:

Finally, regarding this latest imbroglio concerning Frank, I see that nothing much has changed on the Kercher/Knox front. I must admit that I grew tired of the never ending vitriol between the opposing camps. I still believe that Knox and Sollecito were involved in Meredith's murder, but I also accept the possibility that I could be wrong and that reasonable people can disagree on the events surrounding this sad affair. However, Frank's character has no bearing on what took place that evening, only on his credibility as a source of information....

(Cross posted to both PMF sites)


Hi, Itchy Brother, and welcome back. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving? I agree with you that the vitriol between the two camps can be quite tiring. I really don't have the time or inclination to get into arcane arguments or sterile debates about 'evidence' when two seemingly reasonable sides get into the argument. It's only by really getting into the case that you see how unreasonable one side is :) . But it still was fun to debate with the Groupies for a while to test the reasonableness of one's own argument. So I avoided personal arguments for quite a while before I became aware of their "Today Over At PMF" thread. Now, keep in mind a thread of thousands of copied posts from PMF going back many years carrying over feuds from Haloscan and JREF; yes, that's a tad obsessive. We have nothing similar. I mean, even our "Bruce Fisher in Cast of Characters" has less than a dozen posts, yet they keep coming back to read it :)

But, reading their pages, and seeing the sheer volume of personal attacks (which I don't condone when done by our side, btw, but do look at the context) then yes, their's has crossed the line many times. And it certainly is within our rights to expose their behaviour, and respond...

I agree that some people can honestly be certain or not about Knox and Sollecito's involvement or guilt/innocence. Some are even not absolutely sure, one way or the other. They're the ones who write PMs to the other side who then gleefully post that so and so doubts guilt on their PMF page, as a certain Thor found out recently. But never mind, I trust in the basic honesty of most people.

But here is where I respectfully disagree with you, about Frank. Since he's the source of much of the concocted evidence against PM Mignini, then this is imminently debatable as to whether he enabled the political pressure that got Hellmann Zanetti appointed to hear the case. We can argue that his character makes him an unreliable source for anything he says about the case, or his sources, or the hearsay and out of context documents he did procure.

I agree, this has nothing to do with what happened that evening. That has receded into the past, and what matters is what has happened since, and the political background is still relevant, given the uncertainty about how Cassazione will rule.

For myself, I believe the Galati Recourse will prevail, and there will be a retrial. That's when the jury, both judicial and civil :) will revisit the events of that night, and the courts will eventually, I believe, grant justice to the family and the spirit of Meredith Kercher.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:
I don't know about reverends but looking at Obelixes like that one just presented here, and others that look like envoys from the devil, I can't help thinking they look about as holy as muck!

Apparently the one above ate at least half a dozen parishioners.


Hi Zorba, since you don't read I-A, you might want to know they're laughing about how I compared you with Jonathan Swift. Aside from proving they obviously never read Swift, I thought your 'eating at least half a dozen parishioners' was apropos.

Here, is Jonathan Swift's A MODEST PROPOSAL ;)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

zorba wrote:


....There was a misunderstanding when George started talking to an old woman about needing nuts for his family, who told him she'd had the misfortune of meeting a lot of nuts lately.


I think Giulia Bongiorno has an excess of nuts too! :)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
Hey, Itchy, great to see you :) Congratulations on your upcoming retirement...or long break at least.

I really hear you on how tiresome the constant bickering is...


Thanks Michael. I'm glad to see you are still around and I hope you are doing well. You've been at this a long time!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ha ha Ergon

brilliant


I have already computed the charge of nursing a beggar's child (in which list I reckon all cottagers, laborers, and four-fifths of the farmers) to be about two shillings per annum, rags included; and I believe no gentleman would repine to give ten shillings for the carcass of a good fat child, which, as I have said, will make four dishes of excellent nutritive meat, when he hath only some particular friend or his own family to dine with him. Thus the squire will learn to be a good landlord, and grow popular among his tenants; the mother will have eight shillings net profit, and be fit for work till she produces another child.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Ergon wrote:
zorba wrote:


....There was a misunderstanding when George started talking to an old woman about needing nuts for his family, who told him she'd had the misfortune of meeting a lot of nuts lately.


I think Giulia Bongiorno has an excess of nuts too! :)


Yes, since she was representing Sollecito and looked like him, I couldn't imagine her having any relations with anyone, she showed no sin of femininity and I wondered what a woman does with her life doing her best to get murdering mafia and serial killers off of their charges so when it was announced she was pregnant, I almost had a stroke.

I tried ya know, imagining how it is to be her, like going through the having a little baby, but making no connection to the sanctity of life other than only when it concerns your own, I mean, I think I saw her looking, as we all did, with incredulity at Sollecito, like she knew but she was just doing her job and doing her best to get a client off even when she knows he is guilty, so I wonder how people can be that way, as she seems to be more than smart enough to know that Sollecito is and was a total fake. How does a person go on, I'd resign, I couldn't do it.

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Offline Itchy Brother


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:59 pm   Post subject: Re: Let's [not] be Frank   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, Itchy Brother, and welcome back. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving? I agree with you that the vitriol between the two camps can be quite tiring. I really don't have the time or inclination to get into arcane arguments or sterile debates about 'evidence' when two seemingly reasonable sides get into the argument. It's only by really getting into the case that you see how unreasonable one side is :) . But it still was fun to debate with the Groupies for a while to test the reasonableness of one's own argument. So I avoided personal arguments for quite a while before I became aware of their "Today Over At PMF" thread. Now, keep in mind a thread of thousands of copied posts from PMF going back many years carrying over feuds from Haloscan and JREF; yes, that's a tad obsessive. We have nothing similar. I mean, even our "Bruce Fisher in Cast of Characters" has less than a dozen posts, yet they keep coming back to read it :)


Thanks Ergon. I've been out of the loop for quite some time and this was my first venture over to IIP. Are you refering to the main thread over there? I did see PMF mentioned a lot in that thread.

Quote:
But here is where I respectfully disagree with you, about Frank. Since he's the source of much of the concocted evidence against PM Mignini, then this is imminently debatable as to whether he enabled the political pressure that got Hellmann Zanetti appointed to hear the case. We can argue that his character makes him an unreliable source for anything he says about the case, or his sources, or the hearsay and out of context documents he did procure.


I think we are in agreement, I just didn't explain myself very well. Clearly Frank has been a central figure in this case from the early stages. Or, to paint a more accurate picture, Frank made himself a central figure in this case. One has to ask why? Is it because he has a passion for the truth? Obviously not.

My point about Frank's most recent meltdown is not that he has anger management problems. It's that he has a tenuous relationship with the truth and the people who are covering for him are doing him no favors. His dishonesty certainly has had a bearing on this case for the reasons you stated. Frank was one of the main cheerleaders for the "Evil Mignini" meme, and the CPJ's endorsement of Frank's persecution fable gave that narrative undue credence. One would think his recent escapades and the circling of the wagons to protect him would expose the Sfarzo myth. But I'm not sure that is happening.

I have no interest in attacking Frank as a person, but I have no problem ridiculing the myth of Frank as an honest journalist. Personally, I think he and the rest of the world would be better off if he would just be honest with himself and seek help for his problems.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Speaking of ridicule, zorba has definitely elicited more than a few chuckles of late and I see that Jackie still has a penchant for selecting amusing and topical avatars. Well done guys.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Itchy Brother wrote:
Michael wrote:
Hey, Itchy, great to see you :) Congratulations on your upcoming retirement...or long break at least.

I really hear you on how tiresome the constant bickering is...


Thanks Michael. I'm glad to see you are still around and I hope you are doing well. You've been at this a long time!


Too long!

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"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Itchy Brother wrote:
I think we are in agreement, I just didn't explain myself very well. Clearly Frank has been a central figure in this case from the early stages. Or, to paint a more accurate picture, Frank made himself a central figure in this case. One has to ask why? Is it because he has a passion for the truth? Obviously not.

My point about Frank's most recent meltdown is not that he has anger management problems. It's that he has a tenuous relationship with the truth and the people who are covering for him are doing him no favors. His dishonesty certainly has had a bearing on this case for the reasons you stated. Frank was one of the main cheerleaders for the "Evil Mignini" meme, and the CPJ's endorsement of Frank's persecution fable gave that narrative undue credence. One would think his recent escapades and the circling of the wagons to protect him would expose the Sfarzo myth. But I'm not sure that is happening.

I have no interest in attacking Frank as a person, but I have no problem ridiculing the myth of Frank as an honest journalist. Personally, I think he and the rest of the world would be better off if he would just be honest with himself and seek help for his problems.


What we always knew about Frank, and has now been publicly exposed by his own actions, is that he always had a self-serving agenda. At first, it was to make a name for himself off of this case. He then realised, that if he ingratiated himself with the Americans via the Knox family, he could use them to launch a lucrative new career for himself in America. The culmination of that has been to attempt to bully single American women into marrying him so he can start his new life in Seattle supported by Knox's affluent and generous friends. The man, in my opinion, is a parasite.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:08 pm   Post subject: Re: Let's [not] be Frank   

Itchy Brother wrote:
Ergon wrote:
....
Thanks Ergon. I've been out of the loop for quite some time and this was my first venture over to IIP. Are you refering to the main thread over there? I did see PMF mentioned a lot in that thread.

......

I think we are in agreement, I just didn't explain myself very well. Clearly Frank has been a central figure in this case from the early stages. Or, to paint a more accurate picture, Frank made himself a central figure in this case. One has to ask why? Is it because he has a passion for the truth? Obviously not.

My point about Frank's most recent meltdown is not that he has anger management problems. It's that he has a tenuous relationship with the truth and the people who are covering for him are doing him no favors. His dishonesty certainly has had a bearing on this case for the reasons you stated. Frank was one of the main cheerleaders for the "Evil Mignini" meme, and the CPJ's endorsement of Frank's persecution fable gave that narrative undue credence. One would think his recent escapades and the circling of the wagons to protect him would expose the Sfarzo myth. But I'm not sure that is happening.

I have no interest in attacking Frank as a person, but I have no problem ridiculing the myth of Frank as an honest journalist. Personally, I think he and the rest of the world would be better off if he would just be honest with himself and seek help for his problems.


Hi, itchybrother, there's the main "Amanda Knox Public Discussion" thread, with over 20,000 posts, but what I was referring to is the "Today Over At PMF" thread, with about 6-7000 posts, not viewable by the public, and where members post the scurrilous stuff and personal attacks. (Though I have caught them getting confused and referring to stuff in the closed thread or carrying one as if they still were there, lolz.

I too have no problem with Frank as a person, though I certainly would never invite him to bunk over and share a bottle of screech AND (North) Korean brandy. He can resolve his personal hang ups on his own. The fact is that many assertions have been made by the likes of Judge Heavey, Frank Sfarzo, and Bruce Fischer which muddied the case so much that people can get confused, or, seeing two sides get into the muck it discredits both sides, and I think that's sad. All we can do is respond when this happens. Yes, there's been a circling of the wagons, but, as we've said that's to protect their media projects, and the prime object of their adoration, Amanda Knox, and not Frank, per se.

There also was the aspect of information gathering by perusing the closed as well as their open threads. That's how i was able to find out when Frank arrived in the US, get the Three Amigos picture with Steve Moore, Bruce Fischer and Frank Sfarzo, call Steve Shay about his comment on Judge Heavey's daughter :) and if all of us here at .NET and .ORG took it and actually cooperated with each other and ran with it, then great. I mean it was here on .NET that we discovered the defense had submitted a brief on False Confessions from Professor Saul Kassin to Hellmann's court. And TJMK and .ORG ran with it and the rest is history.

That is how we were able to determine who Frank stayed with in B.C. Canada and put a face to the person who he is alleged to have made a false accusation of molestation about. That is how we are asking about his visa status and why he was allowed to enter bacak into the US when he was thrown out of Canada for making false representations? Again, this is not about the person, but the organization of people who enabled him. Who, for example, are the presumably politically connected persons who Bettina states came to rescue Frank from Canada and escort him back across the border? Are his guarantors aware of his visa status? Not important if he's a mere immigrant, but relevant if the plan always was to claim persecution as the reason why he was allowed to stay. A question we asked ourselves many times.

Regarding Bettina, Bruce Fischer is spluttering in the PMF thread why he isn't going to release the police report that was made when Bettina filed a complaint? So, he gets to attack Bettina's credibility from the safety of his site, but won't release the report that would support his statements?

I agree that Frank's issues and current difficulties have nothing with the case. But, I was lucky to come across Bettina's post just an hour before it was deleted (no, I do NOT monitor them 24/7, just pure intuition so far :) and if I hadn't saved it, the story would never have come out. So, their complaint with me is only that they didn't get to cover it up.

In the end, I gave a voice to someone who didn't have one, and yes, I did it out of principle, in honour of the young woman who today, has none.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:28 pm   Post subject: ADMINISTRATOR NOTE!   

Administrator Note:

Hi, Everyone. Please welcome Nell in her promotion to her new role as Site Admin!

When I first recruited Ergon and Nell as Moderators, it was always with the intention of grooming them to become Site Admins. They were never intended to replace me, but rather to join me in a team, a triumvirate, to steward the PMF community. I shall remain as Admin, so don't fear that I'm going anywhere. It is not healthy to have a community in the hands of one person, nor should this community be about names other then Meredith's. Certainly, it should not be 'Michael's' community, it belongs to all of us and to Meredith. It is also necessary to ensure PMF goes from strength to strength. I wish Nell the best of luck in her new role! :)

Thank You,

Michael

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Congratulations to Nell! She's done so much to support PMF over the years. r-(( r-(( r-((
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Itchy Brother wrote:
Speaking of ridicule, zorba has definitely elicited more than a few chuckles of late and I see that Jackie still has a penchant for selecting amusing and topical avatars. Well done guys.


Let me introduce you to my small furry friend Mr George Bartholomew Squirrel the 2nd in

George says: There's nuts & then there's nuts


So back on track

Now, it was late in the evening and the darkness had covered the village on the hill, with the people that go up and down.

A lonesome squirrel scurried through the dried leaves, looking for nuts, but all as it could find, was human nuts and they were too big to swallow. Oh dear said Mr Squirrel for it was very late and he had nothing to take back to his family of mama, granny & grandpa squirrel and the kids. It got later and later and at midnight a bell from the church on the other side of the valley rang out. George (he was called George after his father George Rupert Bartholomew) ran around, darting from tree to tree, his legs going 15 to the dozen. He was exhausted but suddenly saw a faint light at the end of a winding autumn leaved path, and spotted what he thought was a people dwelling, so he tip-toed on slowly, and he tried to avoid scrunching leaves under his now cold paw toes. He crouched on his back two legs and peeped from around the side of the tree he was nestled up behind, there seemed to be an atmosphere of peace & quiet here but he knew he had to take care, his cousin had been captured and taken prisoner just last year, he was skinned and marinated then turned into a stew, yes there wasn't a lot of food around, and it had started when this Italian had arrived on the island and started robbing everyone. In the end he'd poisoned hundreds of people with his grinding tone, he'd worn everyone down and infected them with his brand x, nobody was cheerful, he ran up the tree and sprang onto the roof and kept his head down in the gutter. Hearing a rocking sound he popped his tiny head over the edge, peering down his almond eyes scanning everything in a matter of 1 second, whiskers twitching back and forth, left to right. Mmn, well, that’s an old lady person, maybe she will give me something to eat if I sit there nicely, she might like my little face, she might pour me a nice bowl of assorted nuts because she's bound to love animals.
So George ran down the drainpipe and then made sure he was at a distance so he would not scare her, then he did his best to look sweet and hungry and sucked his cheeks inwards and made his eyes bulge out in an attempt to look like he was a starving refugee squirrel.

He knew and was sure she'd seen him, but she just carried on knitting and rocking calmly, singing softly to herself... and if that diamond ring don’t shine, papa gonna buy you a diamond mine..
George was getting desperate so he thought, wait, who said squirrels cannot talk human, he pursed his lips, showing his long thin mini oblong teeth, coughed and said, “Excuse me lady, I'm looking for nuts, could you help me?”

“Well, she said, I did have one from Italy staying here, but then he started drinking cocktails at 10 in the morning and had some very strange friends, not from round these parts, most of them were shaped like Obelix, there was a Dave Preston, a Don Marriot, a woman that looked like a man called Carlo Dampsay with a face like a bag of spanners and some champion of nuts, as far as nuts go I'd categorize him as a brazil nut, you know, big. Now I'd lived here quietly already for years, and so after a coupla weeks of this, I called Jed and his boys over from Cripple Creek to do some tidying up, most of his friends left but the Italian I couldn’t get rid of thought I was having a joke and a laugh and carried on regardless, drinking his cocktails, well he called it that, it was cheap beer with a slice of apple, ole, and two shots of some blue stuff, I think that's what turned him nuts, so anyhow, ma boys had to manhandle him, we put him on a raft made of straw and cast him out to sea.

Oh, peace, oh tranquillity, nuts!!!

Squirrel: I see, nevertheless, I don't mean those types of nuts, I mean eat nuts, food, yum, I'm starving and I have 7 kids to feed.

Nice old lady: Oh why didn’t you say, I’ll make a bundle on the end of a chopstick so you can take them home, I got the idea of the stick and bundle off the Italian, that’s what the Italian had with him when he showed up demanding to know where all the gold was.

George: Sounds like you had a rough time of it with this person!!!

Lady: Sure did, and ya know, we don’t know where he is but I keep getting threatening e-mails, only thing is, I don’t have a computer but he did send a couple of letters demanding to know why I hadn’t replied to his 398 e-mails and he would be suing me and everyone else who survived after the famine of 2012 when he stayed here and destroyed the climate, after all it had always been sunny with very scattered showers every once and then but from the day he came it didn’t do nothing but rain and get dark.

George: That’s nuts

Lady: You bet, when everyone had left a drunk woman called Anne or something showed up at 9 o clock in the morning demanding to see her friend, well, this was in the hospital she said that as she crashed into a tree end of my drive, cursing the lawd and everyone else. I told her that cursing the police is what got your friend deported by raft in the first place, all she said though was I’ll sue you, I’m a lawyer don’t ya know. I told her I’m already being sued by your good absent friend Frank Bartok the woman beater. She snarled and I left.

George: That’s one hell of a story ma’am, you ought to write a book, anyway I have to scamper off back to my family, kids are starving... thanks for the nuts, there’s nuts and nuts and I like these!

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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
Jackie wrote:
Nell wrote:

According to Frank Sfarzo's Facebook page that is Stuart Lyster from Canada. He is a reverend.


Hi Nell - There's a reverend on Team Knox?


Yep.


What do you know about him?
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Frank's US visit:
Started: Friday, July 20, 2012
To and including: Thursday, November 22, 2012
126 Days. At least two people claim abuse during this period.

Who is Frank’s employer sponsor, and where is he/she now?
I hope Bettina will respond to this, what type of visa does Frank have, who sponsored him, who urged the Homeland Security/State Dept to minimize his active criminal case in Italy as some vast Perugian conspiracy to persecute bloggers, and what work, if any, has he done in the US?

A work visa isn’t to be abused like this, there are millions who want to come here to WORK, yet someone escorted this Feral Fabulist to the front of the line, having done no due diligence on the criminal charges he faces in Italy, or even having lined up work for him. SHAMEFUL.

He claims to be vacationing when he pleaded he was here to work. He’s abusing his visa as well as those who step up to help and support him. Whoever his sponsor is (Preston? Heavey? Knox/Mellas? Wright? CPJ?) has an obligation to take care of the problem, and should be liable for their charge’s damages. And it sounds like the damages are mounting.

Stay safe Bettina.

Happy Thanksgiving all.
And to Zorba, we’re having kale, spinach & romaine for greens, although the romaine is in a decadent Caesar salad.

PS I honestly didn't think anyone would fall for Frank's claim that he was FRAMED, but there is actually someone showing off how gullible they are over on IIP claiming that this is possible. (KayPea)

I do not know much about Frank because there are so many deceptions and secrets. I know he wants to stay out of Italy in a bad way..
I forgive any sponsor who was taken in by Frank. I really wished they had shared their knowledge with people so that we could have avoided the problems, but they did not. I will follow thru on my promise to speak with the prosecutor. Frank would be smart to stop posting about me. I wish I had someone to send these unbelievable texts to via cell....then things would be clear.
I would like to thank Ergon for digging into the matter. I have recourse. Very helpful you were.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Bettina,

Perhaps you could type up the text contents in a post here?

Is he still continuing to text you?

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"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Jackie wrote:
Nell wrote:
Jackie wrote:
Nell wrote:

According to Frank Sfarzo's Facebook page that is Stuart Lyster from Canada. He is a reverend.


Hi Nell - There's a reverend on Team Knox?


Yep.


What do you know about him?


Jackie wrote:
Who is this "Bill Williams" character?


Hi Jackie,

it's easy to connect the dots: reverend Stu Lyster is the poster Bill Williams on I-A and JREF, who regularly recommends us to consult a legal professional.

(See your reply to him up-thread: http://www.perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?p=100767#p100767 )

Quote:
e740jph Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011 Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:09 pm
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:47 pm
Posts: 74
Location: British Columbia, Canada

"Pray for me!
Frank and Bill Williams and a bottle of Screetch and a bottle of North Korean Brandy are showing up tomorrow night at my place. What are my odds at surviving the night ...


Quote:
e740jph Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011 Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:44 pm
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:47 pm
Posts: 74
Location: British Columbia, Canada

"Frank is in Canada and has now been officially 'screeched' - thanks Bill W

For once I beat Bill to the 'punch'. Cheers and thanks, Bill

p.s. No, there is plenty left, Bill brought the 'supersized' version. And, Anglo, we survived it contrary to your prognostications


I bet Stu/Bill bought a bottle of North Korean brandy en route to Canada from his "study tour" of South Korea and the Philippines. ;)

Here he is again, this time with his 'pal' Sollecito:

Attachment:
Sollecito and Stu Lyster aka Bill Williams.jpg


I'm just baffled by how much time he spends online advocating for Knox and Sollecito. Shouldn't he be more concerned with the spiritual needs of his parishioners and be a shepherd of their souls? I think I'm losing my faith in humanity if even God's servants who are trained by the Word of God to differentiate between good and evil, cannot detect untruths in Sollecito's fairy tales.


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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Congratulations, Nell!
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
...
it's easy to connect the dots: Stu Lyster is the poster Bill Williams on I-A and JREF, who regularly recommends us to consult a legal professional

...

I'm just baffled by how much time he spends online advocating for Knox and Sollecito. Shouldn't he be more concerned with the spiritual needs of his parishioners and be a shepherd of their souls? I think I'm losing my faith in humanity if even God's servants who are trained by the Word of God to differentiate between good and evil, cannot detect untruths in Sollecito's fairy tales.


Reverend Stu is "Bill Williams", the JREF poster who can't stop trying to chill the debate with repeated references to expensive litigation (that he clearly does not understand)?!!!

Say it isn't so!!!

What kind of a reverend sarcastically states that he 'feels sorry for' families having to waste $50K to $100K (or more) fending off frivolous and vexatious law suits instead of sending their children to college or taking care of an elderly family member, etc.?!

Even if members of PMF were mistaken in their honest beliefs about what happened in Perugia, wouldn't a 'Man of God' steeped in the teachings of Jesus Christ want to forgive them rather than break them for 'they know not what they do'?!

I must have missed the part of the bible where Jesus urged his followers to bring economic harm to anyone that disagreed with them.

I'm honestly deeply disappointed to learn this, guermantes. This is not the time of year when I want to be reminded of reasons to question the legitimacy of organized religion.

Wow.

Just wow.

I sincerely hope that you're mistaken about the true identity of "Bill Williams".

A litigious preacher...

It can't be.


Last edited by Jackie on Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

If “Bill Williams” is in fact a clergy member, his tendency to give victims the short shaft makes perfect sense to me. But then I alter served for an offending priest shuffled to my parish/school by a Bishop later convicted of manslaughter.
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Offline louiehaha


Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:13 am

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Has this issue been discussed here?
Giulia Bongiomo represents Vittorio Dordi, accused of trafficking illegal arms to Libya (who resells them to Syria)?
It’s not new so I apologize if it’s been covered.

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... CEIQ7gEwAw

Does anyone know the current status of this litigation or where I can find more information on it?


Last edited by louiehaha on Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

It's shocking, isn't it Jackie? I was shocked, too. There must be a lot of proverbial black sheep in a presumably white flock wandering this planet of ours.

There is always a chance, however slim, that we could be wrong but I don't think I'm mistaken in this particular case.

The FOA have made it very easy for us to identify him as "Bill Williams." You only need to compare Peter H's posts that Ergon and I quoted above with Stu L's messages that he posted on Sfarzo's Facebook page (see Nell's post here: http://www.perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?p=100896#p100896 ; thanks Nell!) to realize that Stu and Bill are one and the same person.

And, before they (the FOA) accuse us of outing people, let me say this: nobody outed him -- he practically outed himself without us lifting a finger. ;)

Greetings to the FOA,

b-))
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

In relation to everything that has come to light about Frank Sfarzo lately, I am painfully reminded that Frank Sfarzo used his arrest in Perugia to accuse prosecutor Giulliano Mignini and the local police of abuse and harassment.

His mother had him removed from her home for beating his sister, but they decided not to press any charges for domestic violence. The aggression against a police officer on the other hand carries a mandatory charge, so that is what the hearing in Perugia was all about. If his mother wouldn't have called the police, they wouldn't have been showing up at his doorstep. Sfarzo has always been elusive about the circumstances that surrounded his arrest in Perugia and now it becomes clear why.

Candace Dempsey, Bruce Fischer, Douglas Preston, Frank Sfarzo himself and the Committee to Protect Journalists used his lies to accuse Mignini of wrongdoing, without ever providing the slightest proof for their claims.

The Committee to Protect Journalists swallowed Sfarzo's story hook, line and sinker, without any basic fact checking. I assume it is save to say that Sfarzo had a little help from Douglas Preston to make his "case" known to the CPJ. Douglas Preston is not only a founding member of the FOA but also a donor to the CPJ and has a long standing feud with Mignini due to his interferences with the Monster of Florence investigation.

Articles published on the Committee to Protect Journalists website:
In Italy, journalists threatened for reporting on murders
CPJ responds to readers comments on Italy letter
Italian prosecutor files defamation lawsuit, shutters blog

Candace Dempsey wrote:
Of the cases that have come to CPJ’s attention, one stands out because of the abusive actions employed by members of Squadra Mobile to punish a critic of the official Kercher murder inquiry. Local freelance reporter Frank Sfarzo created his English-language blog Perugia Shockin 2007, days after Kercher’s gruesome murder. Based in Perugia, Sfarzo became interested in the case from the start, posting reporting and comments on it on his blog. Sfarzo regularly criticized what he considered flaws in the Kercher investigation, at times using harsh language to express his views.

Sfarzo told CPJ his troubles started on October 28, 2008, the day Knox and Sollecito were indicted and a third defendant was convicted of murdering Kercher. Several members of Squadra Mobile, Sfarzo told CPJ, approached him just outside the city court (Corte di Assise di Perugia) and started to push and hit him. “You are pissing us off!”–they told him, referring to his coverage.

When the trial of Knox and Sollecito began that December, Squadra Mobile continued to harass him. They regularly tried to prevent him from entering the court; seized his cellphone and went through his contacts and text messages; mouthed insults at him from across the courtroom; and stared over his shoulder as he took notes. “This was done in the presence of the judge, the Carabinieri [the military police], and the court guards, but they would do nothing,” Sfarzo told CPJ.

The harassment reached its peak on September 28, 2010, when five officers of Squadra Mobile forcibly entered Sfarzo’s apartment. They did not produce a warrant or show their badges, Sfarzo told CPJ. Four of the five shoved Sfarzo to the ground, struck him, handcuffed him, and climbed on top of him, crushing his air supply, he told CPJ. They stopped when a neighbor, disturbed by the commotion, showed up, Sfarzo said.

Next, the officers took Sfarzo to the Perugia city hospital, where they claimed he had attacked them; they persuaded a doctor to issue a medical report for the injuries Sfarzo was alleged to have caused. In addition, the Squadra Mobile officers brought Sfarzo before a psychiatrist, demanding that she issue him a certificate of insanity. To prove that Sfarzo was mentally ill, the officers produced Sfarzo’s reporter’s notebook on the Kercher murder case, which they had seized from his apartment. “They told the doctor that I was pathologically obsessed with the case, that I was so fixated on it I must be insane,” Sfarzo told CPJ. The psychiatrist refused to issue the certificate.

From the hospital, the officers brought a handcuffed and injured Sfarzo to their headquarters, where, in the blogger’s words, they “displayed me as a trophy,” referring to him as “the bastard who defends Amanda [Knox].” The officers refused Sfarzo’s requests to call his lawyer or his relatives, and put him in a cell for the night.

The next day, the officers brought Sfarzo before a local judge, who validated his arrest and indicted him on several articles of Italy’s penal code for “using violence and threats to resist public officials” and “injuring an officer.” Sfarzo was released pending a trial in May. He faces up to six years in prison if convicted. “The police can count on the complicity of judges,” Sfarzo told CPJ. Police officers, he added, are sure of their impunity.

Amanda Knox prosecutor threatens Italian and U.S. journalists


Regarding Sfarzo's claims that police tried to prevent him from entering the courtroom, I remember Barbie Nadeau saying that he was often late and that could have been a good reason they would not let him enter the courtroom once the proceedings had started - if his claims are even true.

Now that Sfarzo has been arrested two times more, once in Canada and once in the U.S., barred from re-entering Canada ever again, a picture of a manipulative and calculating Frank emerges.

Meanwhile, Bruce Fischer published on his forum that the charges against Sfarzo stemming from his arrest in Hawaii had been dismissed and the case was over. That would have been true, if the judge would have dismissed the charges with prejudice, but that's not what he did. Instead, the charges against Sfarzo have been dismissed without prejudice, which means that the charges may be re-instituted and brought before court again. Thanks to Ergon for contacting Kona District Court and revealing this extraordinary important detail!

To support his contention that he is "neutral" and "balanced", Fischer invited Bettina, whose original posts about Sfarzo's abuse had been deleted, to join the discussion again. She chooses to let the facts speak and talks to the prosecutor instead, which I think is a very wise decision.

Wherever Frank Sfarzo goes, his problems have a way of following him ...

st-))


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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Congratulations Nell on becoming our newest admin! pp-(
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Some of Sfarzo's supporters begin to realize just how they have been duped.

Attachment:
Frank Sfarzo martyr myth - 1.jpg


Nina Burleigh fell for his lies and deception, too.

Attachment:
Frank Sfarzo martyr myth.jpg


FACEBOOK


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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
In relation to everything that has come to light about Frank Sfarzo lately, I am painfully reminded that Frank Sfarzo used his arrest in Perugia to accuse prosecutor Giulliano Mignini and the local police of abuse and harassment...


Thanks, Nell, excellent research and recap of the lies by Sfarzo to the CPJ and his followers.

And I just want to point out something out here. Unless I'm mistaken in my memory (help me someone), it was the incident of Frank's Italian arrest that directly led to his housing problems? If so, since he has been collecting money from his followers to help him with that problem, then he's been taking money under false pretenses.

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
It's shocking, isn't it Jackie? I was shocked, too. There must be a lot of proverbial black sheep in a presumably white flock wandering this planet of ours.

There is always a chance, however slim, that we could be wrong but I don't think I'm mistaken in this particular case.

The FOA have made it very easy for us to identify him as "Bill Williams." You only need to compare Peter H's posts that Ergon and I quoted above with Stu L's messages that he posted on Sfarzo's Facebook page (see Nell's post here: http://www.perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?p=100896#p100896 ; thanks Nell!) to conclude that Stu and Bill are one and the same person.

And, before they (the FOA) accuse us of outing people, let me say this: nobody outed him -- he practically outed himself without us lifting a finger. ;)

Greetings to the FOA,

b-))


Hi Guermantes,

I haven't had a chance so far to check Bill Williams posts against those written by Stuart Lyster, but it is a sure thing that the Stuart Lyster seen in the photos with Frank Sfarzo is indeed a reverend of the United Church of Canada.

Reverend Stuart Lyster - Profile
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Michael wrote:
--- snip ---

And I just want to point out something out here. Unless I'm mistaken in my memory (help me someone), it was the incident of Frank's Italian arrest that directly led to his housing problems?

--- snap ---


I am not sure about that. According to the story he told the CPJ and Candace Dempsey, he was arrested on September 28th, 2010. A call to donations was published on IA (then IIP) by Sarah Snyder on October 9th, 2011. So there is a gap of approximately one year if the date about his arrest is correct (being Sfarzo the only source). He apparently had a place to live after his mother threw him out. Sarah Snyder mentions that he had to pay a fine for assaulting the police officers, but it is not revealed how much it was.


This is a selection of comments from the thread at IA (then IIP) Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds. This forum is not open visitors and you need to be a registered member on their board to read it. From time to time this thread disappeared completely from the forum. There was apparently an attempt to keep the collection of donations for Frank Sfarzo a secret.

Sarah wrote:

Post subject: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:21 pm
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http://perugiashock.com/

There is a donate button on his website. I know not everyone can afford to help him, but there is likely some on this forum that could and will.

He's looking for a new place with limited money. He also just had to pay the police for beating him up.



Sarah wrote:
Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:38 am
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I contacted Frank to see how he is doing. I will post his response for you all:

-----------------
Frank:
Hey thank you, very kind of you. Yes that was very helpful. One day want to thank all the people publically.
Yes, every now and then someone was sending something, that saved me...
But then Paypal blocked the account again. I sent them the docs they asked but it's still blocked. Probably they want newer documents so, as soon as I'll have I'll send them...

I'm try to relocate soon in some way, hopefully before they come to take my apt..

I'm busy with the house problem and the other troubles otherwise I'd write everyday an article... I've got to many things to say...
-------------------


e740jph wrote:

Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:41 pm
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Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:47 am
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Location: British Columbia, Canada
How much does he need? I'm willing to help. :?:


Sarah wrote:

Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:43 pm
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anglolawyer wrote:
I have Frank's permission to reproduce here from an email received two days ago:

Frank Sfarzo wrote:
At the moment indeed, nobody hires me, magazines over here refuse my articles and a negotiation with a major publishing house ended up in nothing.
Not to mention the zero support I got from local journalists, all terrified by Piggy and his gang (I like the nickname they gave him). Instead of defending a colleague they side with that gang, can you believe it? You guys faraway have understood and this people, right here are still there supporting that criminal! And they call themselves journalists!
This guy is a criminal beyond believe and even after all the disasters he did he's still there! An people even learn from him!

I would go away but first I need to get out of troubles, then it will be my mission, with the help of you guys, to bring the gang to court.


Sarah wrote:

Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:17 am
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Frank has had his first court date for beating up the police.
It was only a technical hearing.

The next trial date is scheduled for May 16th.

He could use all the help he can get at this time.


e740jph wrote:

Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:01 pm
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Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:47 am
Posts: 75
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Sarah wrote:
Frank has had his first court date for beating up the police.
It was only a technical hearing.

The next trial date is scheduled for May 16th.

He could use all the help he can get at this time.



...and his landlord is planning to change the locks on May 18th.

What we need here is a security deposit that will eliminate further actions by the landlord. I have not been able to move Frank in that direction. How much? If we have a figure, we can start a fund drive. I would suggest a 3 month deposit is achievable. I'm in - anybody else?

Keeping in mind, of course that the landlord at this stage may just want to get rid of him. After all, he may not want Piggy's goons from the lying squad descend upon his own nest.

As long as the honest citizens of Perugia do not acknowledge the vile grip Pignini and his goons have on the town, they will sink ever deeper into this swamp. I'll put up 1,000 euros for a deposit that will let frank keep his base. Step up ladies and gentlemen, the time for bullshit is over. Thanks for your patience. I can use it, 'cause I have none left. (there is no good emoticon for this)


e740jph wrote:

Post subject: Re: Frank Sfarzo - Losing Apt due to lack of funds.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:47 am
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Frank is 'restoring' the lost parts from his old Google-based blog. He wants to save the whole blog as a complete package so that it can be a continuing reference once the blog closes and he moves to new things.
If his court case does not go well he may end up in jail and certainly will no longer be able to blog. If he wins, he'll wrap up the loose ends (Supreme court, calunnia charges, etc. etc.) and move on to new journalistic projects. He may well move to North America for this. He is currently mapping out the main theme for a new blog.

As I previously said in the main thread, his court case is on May 16th and his landlord will change the locks on May 18th. So he only has 4 weeks to wrap things up.

He cannot hang on to his current place since his landlord wants an outrageous 10,000 euros as a security deposit. One has to wonder if his landlord fears the gentle hand of Mignini?

I hope this explains this.



Then there was another call for donations on April 29th, 2012 by Sarah: Frank Sfarzo Fund Drive. Again, you need to be a registered member to see the forum.

Sarah wrote:
Sarah
Post subject: Frank Sfarzo Fund Drive
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:33 am
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 pm
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Frank Sfarzo Fund Drive

Journalist Frank Sfarzo's court date for 'beating up the police' :rolleyes: is coming up on May 16th.
Frank continues to need help for both legal costs and living expenses. Please donate to Frank's fund to help him get through this important time. Frank Sfarzo put his own personal safety and security on the line to tell the truth about the Amanda Knox case in Peruiga. He needs our help now.


Here is the Pay-Pal account to donate funds to help Frank Sfarzo:

ps-don-coordinator@live.com

There is a link to donate on Frank's Perugia Shock blog. On the left hand side, mid-way down.

Support The Shock
Donate
http://perugiashock.com


Thanks so much to everyone who contributes!


* Please note that no one is being asked to put themselves in financial hardship to donate to this Fund drive. Everyone has different finances. Anything that people can afford and wish to give will be deeply appreciated by Frank, but no one is obligated or should put themselves in financial hardship to do so.


Bettina commented on both threads and offered her hard earned money to help Frank.

I think it is odd that someone who is reportedly in a situation that is described as "financial hardship" is found cocktail-sipping in Hawaii on the cost of other people. I find his rant about Canada also strange after he was afforded a stay and kindly welcomed by his hosts. If he wouldn't have gotten into trouble with the law, he could still be a guest there. Apparently he has anger issues.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

guermantes wrote:
--- snip ---

Some of Sfarzo's supporters begin to realize just how they have been duped.

--- snap ---



Actually, this was addressed right after Bettina posted her story on IA. The members inquired about the details to see if there was any truth to it, but this discussion was stopped dead in its tracks by Bruce Fischer by first deleting the offending post and then calling his members to be "neutral".

Some protested again, because Bettina's comments had been deleted, which they felt was unfair, but Bruce Fischer didn't lose any time to cast doubt over Bettina's motives by insinuating she was the one who had something to hide. The few critical voices were overpowered by the likes of KayPea and other fervent Sfarzo supporters. Later Fischer lied about how this story had been resulting in nothing, hoping everyone would move on.

They cling on to a false image they created about Frank Sfarzo and that has now been effectively destroyed by the revelation of bare and simple facts.
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Offline Itchy Brother


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:51 am   Post subject: Re: Let's [not] be Frank   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, itchybrother, there's the main "Amanda Knox Public Discussion" thread, with over 20,000 posts, but what I was referring to is the "Today Over At PMF" thread, with about 6-7000 posts, not viewable by the public, and where members post the scurrilous stuff and personal attacks. (Though I have caught them getting confused and referring to stuff in the closed thread or carrying one as if they still were there, lolz.

(...)


Thanks so much for the extensive summary Ergon. A lot has transpired in my absence. I realize once again why I'm glad there are folks like you and the other members here keeping an eye on things. Someone has to fight the propaganda.
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Offline Itchy Brother


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
--- snip ---

Some of Sfarzo's supporters begin to realize just how they have been duped.

--- snap ---



Actually, this was addressed right after Bettina posted her story on IA. The members inquired about the details to see if there was any truth to it, but this discussion was stopped dead in its tracks by Bruce Fischer by first deleting the offending post and then calling his members to be "neutral".

Some protested again, because Bettina's comments had been deleted, which they felt was unfair, but Bruce Fischer didn't lose any time to cast doubt over Bettina's motives by insinuating she was the one who had something to hide. The few critical voices were overpowered by the likes of KayPea and other fervent Sfarzo supporters. Later Fischer lied about how this story had been resulting in nothing, hoping everyone would move on.

They cling on to a false image they created about Frank Sfarzo and that has now been effectively destroyed by the revelation of bare and simple facts.


If folks are wising up, I'm glad to hear it. It will help prevent others from becoming marks in the future. Those fund raising posts you shared above were enlightening. In hindsight this statement is particularly painful:

Quote:
From: e740jph

I'll put up 1,000 euros for a deposit that will let frank keep his base. Step up ladies and gentlemen, the time for bullshit is over.


Is that the same gentleman who invited Frank into his home and later had to have him evicted by the police? If so, I hope he isn't too embarrassed to come forward and share what he's learned. It could save others from suffering the same fate. It was courageous and generous for Bettina tell her story for that very reason.

Finally, congratulations on the new role Nell!
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Itchy Brother wrote:
Quote:
From: e740jph

I'll put up 1,000 euros for a deposit that will let frank keep his base. Step up ladies and gentlemen, the time for bullshit is over.


Is that the same gentleman who invited Frank into his home and later had to have him evicted by the police? If so, I hope he isn't too embarrassed to come forward and share what he's learned. It could save others from suffering the same fate. It was courageous and generous for Bettina tell her story for that very reason.


I do believe the member "e740jph" is the person Bettina/tamale mentioned: John Peter Hoemberg. Frank's Canadian host who invited him and had him removed from his home, because Frank refused to leave after the situation became unsupportable. The exact details and what their argument was about are not known to us, except what Bettina shared with us.

Of course, we cannot be sure they are one and the same person, but the member e740jph is the one who announced Frank's arrival time and flight number on IA (Injustice Anywhere, a forum that Amanda Knox supporter Bruce Fischer maintains), which makes it more likely he was Frank's Canadian host.

We also know that Frank doesn't pay for his own flights. The hosts pay for the cost of Frank's flights. This is what makes me believe that Frank is not on holiday right now, instead, he is stuck on Hawaii until he finds someone new who is willing to pay for his travel expenses. Frank Sfarzo lost his flight back to the mainland due to his court date in Hawaii. It has been speculated on .org that Sfarzo is probably already overstaying his visa. If that is true, he won't be able to get back into the country once he has left.

I believe Bettina said Peter is 71 years old. I will attach a photo from Frank Sfarzo's timeline on Facebook that shows Frank Sfarzo, reverend Stuart Lyster and an older man who I believe could be John Peter Hoemberg.

If you search for e740jph, you will find posts that have been quoted here, originally published at IA (was IIP). There are just a few results, but they are very revealing. Peter Hoemberg himself published his full name on Bruce Fischer's forum as you can see from the quotes. According to Bettina Frank Sfarzo accused his host Peter of molesting him when he called the police after an argument to have Sfarzo removed. Accusing someone of molestation is not a joking matter and if this is true, than he is very lucky to have only been barred from entering Canada again.

I don't share their views about the Meredith Kercher murder case or Amanda Knox, but I am saddened by the way Frank Sfarzo took advantage of these people.


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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

Itchy Brother wrote:
--- snip ---

Those fund raising posts you shared above were enlightening.

--- snap ---


Hi Itchy Brother,

I've always wondered about the so called security deposit in the amount of 10,000 euros. You have to be extremely gullible to believe that to be true. It is another sign that Frank Sfarzo tried to take advantage of trustful supporters. In my opinion he was trying to fleece them.

Commonly the landlord can ask you to deposit a bond that can range between one to three monthly rents. You can get a tiny one room apartment in Perugia for as little as 350 euros a month in the historic centre of Perugia. So if we assume that he would have to pay 350 euros x 3 as deposit that would be 1,050 euros. For a 90m2, 3-bedroom apartment you can pay as much as 750 euros up to 1,000 euros a month; then he would pay a bond of maximum 2,250 - 3,000 euros, if - and that is a big IF, the landlord asks for 3 monthly rents as security deposit.

So how did Frank came up with the sum of 10,000 euros?

We will never know.

From what I understand from the discussion on IA, it was the landlord from the place Frank already lived in. It is very doubtful that the landlord would ask for a security deposit after Frank moved in. That is usually arranged before you move in, when you sign the contract and get the keys. So I assume Frank either lied about the story entirely or he damaged the property or he hadn't paid the rent for some time and that was the real reason the landlord wanted him out.

No matter what the circumstances, the 10,000 euros could not have possibly been a security bond like Frank said.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31 -   

I've been puzzling about this also, Nell. Only the Groupies have any idea the amount they were able to raise.
One would think if they had managed to raise the 10,000 euros, and he used this as a security deposit, he needed the apartment from May to August 1, max. What happened to his apartment? Is all that money still tied up in Italy, holding the place for his return? Since he is currently in Hawaii, supposedly penniless, couldn't he cancel his lease and request a big chunk of his deposit back? If I donated any money to his cause, I'd want to know.
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