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Satan~ism

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Offline Ergon

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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

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Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:20 am   Post subject: Satan~ism   

Hi, all,

I've studied and observed many different social and other groups over the last 40 plus years, including, um, satanists. Thus, my interest was piqued by seeing how the Knox-Sollecito trial had all sorts of occult symbolism thrown into the mix, and by seeing how open Italians were to discussions about 'satanic groups' and ritual murders. I also thought it a great pity that some felt any discussion of a murder that took place in Italy must, be filtered though a North American literal minded consciousness, and there were nuances that therefore missed being debated.

I also felt that PM MIgnini was similarly hindered in properly prosecuting the case because he was discouraged from presenting any hypothesis that even remotely touched upon such influence.

I am reposting in full an article, Satan~ism I wrote last December. http://www.manfromatlan.blogspot.com/20 ... anism.html

I strongly feel that young people nowadays are influenced by violent, satanic imagery. Hollyweird does its best to play up that angle, and Knox and Sollecito were part of a generation that are huge consumers of supernatural symbolism. This therefore is a valid topic of discussion, which I present to you. Some may be er, allergic to the subject. Some may be interested.

Please feel free to add your comments; please, also, respect the rules about going O/T.

"An Italian court has just overturned the conviction of public prosecutor, PM Giuliano Mignini, accused of illegally wiretapping a prosecutor and police he felt were impeding his search for a serial killer. Mignini had been attacked for theorizing that a series of murders in the Florence area were the work of a satanic cult, with friends in high places. And right after that, this headline appeared in Italian news.

"Five arrested over Lampedusa 'voodoo' murder"

"Five people have been arrested on suspicion of murder after more than a dozen illegal immigrants were thrown from a boat in a "voodoo ritual to calm stormy seas," an Italian prosecutor has claimed" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... urder.html

Questions: What drives the belief in Satan, and how is it manifested? Given world events, are we ruled by human beings who chose to be evil, or are they actually controlled by forces of evil? Do satanic groups exist? Or just mentally ill people acting out stuff they read or saw in the movies? Or, again, is all this a manifestation of our psychology? Does Satan exist? As a being, or, a force?

Some say that Satan rules the earth.

Conventional mythology and monotheistic religions hold that this being is a lesser angel, angry at God, and therefore always trying to subvert God's creation, and turn humanity away. Or, an aspect of God. Or, an energy.

Ahriman: Zoroastrianism holds that Ahriman, the prototype for Satan, is the 'destroyer of hope' that must fight Ahura Mazda, the 'bringer of light' . This is a form of dualism that suggests two equal forces. It is a battle that has always been, and will continue to the end times, or, as I like to call it, the beginning times.

Then again, in a now extinct form of Zoroastrianism, we see Zurvan, the original creator god, within which both good and evil are contained. So, Satan could well be an aspect of God.

Mesopotamian texts are the first written history we have of the symbolism of the snake, or serpent, which have since been perverted as symbols of Satan. In ancient times, the snake was the symbol of knowledge. It is still a symbol of healing, in the twinned serpent caduceus. And, it is the symbol of sacred sexuality, all forces that have been subverted by the controlling forms of religion.

Satanic Theology: There must be protagonist and antagonist, or competing forces. There must be apocalyptical struggle. There must be good and evil, and the struggle between them is the basis of this theology.

Shamanism: The earlier spirituality of natural forces and earth energy ended up in conflict with the later sky god religions; yet, even in Mesopotamian culture, it was understood there was a dualism that combined the two energies, the male and female, to make the whole. Yes, shamanism, with its emphasis on blood, masks, and human sacrifice, at times veered into some deep dark spaces the sky religions sought to suppress. Yet the later religions, in trying to put down the feminine, actually incorporated many shamanic practices into themselves.

And Satanism actually grew as a result of this suppression, and a lot of what we consider to be good or evil is often a religious construct, with no basis of justification except as a means of control of a competing model of spirituality. I do not argue that good or evil does not exist, but they happen within what is known as Universal Law, and not religion, which are man made laws. Even the belief in black as the colour of evil is based on this split.

Interesting side note: I use black as a healing colour as it represents karma. Karma is correlated with sin, that there are consequences for our actions...I also see a super black, which is the complete absence of light, as the colour of the Void, the 'nothingness' that Buddhism attempts to get to, that Science is only beginning to understand. Here is also, death and destruction, the chaos beyond ordinary physical laws that help create life anew..

I personally believe in a flow of energy between Sky God and Mother Earth, and that we exist between the two, and bring balance through ourselves. It is only when we are not in balance that we commit evil.

Secret Groups: There have been secret societies since Babylonian times. There are good forces that serve and try to take humanity to a higher level, some that, rightly or wrongly, feel they alone can decide what is good for humanity and the direction it must take, and some that use black magic, or fear, ritual and psychology to control people. For further reading I refer to Pauwel and Bergier's Morning of the Magicians, Manly P. Hall's The Secret Teachings of the Ages, and William Bramley's The Gods of Eden. Rudolph Steiner is also a good source for some of the battles between the different factions of these occult societies. There also is a very strong connection between some of them and the Nazis, far too numerous for me to list here, but I suggest you read about Nicolas Roerich and the Thule Society, and Heinrich Himmler's expeditions to the Himalayas.

Then, there are the Freemasons, about whom more later.

Modern Satanism:

The Process: The first satanic group I met was called the Process, or The Church of the Final Judgement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_Church
Led by Robert de Grimston and his wife Mary Anne MacLean, they were a splinter group from Scientology. In 1966, they retreated from the world to Xtul, in the Yucatan peninsula. There, with the aid of various stimuli and psychedelia, they channeled God, aka Jehovah, then, the later aspects Christ, Lucifer and Satan, and stated we all vibrate according to one or the other aspect, and we must eventually integrate all four. They were much perturbed when I said I already integrated all four. I was a young whippersnapper then :)

Having been born out of the various psychoanalytical therapy movements of the 60’s, the Process was widely influential with Rock Stars and in the counter culture movement. The Process eventually fell apart when it turned out they had influenced multiple killers Charles Manson and David Berkowitz, the 'Son of Sam' and they tried to change direction.

I found it interesting they had a secret, undisclosed belief in long ago UFO’s visiting Earth based on the writings of Brinsley Le Poer Trench, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinsley_L ... _Clancarty and http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/9923/trench.html and that their ideology had some resemblance with mine. But I saw also elements of manipulation and control I would never be able to live with.

Yet, for all they might truly believe in an apocalyptical world and that Charles Manson was a sign of the end times, there was something beautiful there too, in that even if they got Satan all wrong, they still got God, somewhat right.

THE GODS ON WAR

Robert de Grimston, Process Church of the Final Judgment.

http://feastofhateandfear.com/archives/robert_07.html

Yeow! The reading is a riff on War, and yes it should be read in full, great poetry cannot be summarised but read in its entirety.

But here's the conclusion:

"1.15 Humanity as a whole will not rise above its conflicts. Even if it were to do so it would still destroy all the physical, social and moral structures which it has created, because it would see their total invalidity. But it will not; so the destruction will take place in a chaos and confusion of ignorance, with the vast majority still clinging desperately to their hollow materialistic dreams, even in the depths of their final despair; whilst the few who do rise above the conflicts, will stand aside, separated from the mass, united not within but without the man-made structures of the human game, and linked to a new reality founded not on the laws of men but on the Laws of GOD."

The Process Church reinvented itself as the New Ager Foundation Faith of the Millennium, then as one of America’s most well known Animal Rescue services, the Best Friends Animal Society based in Utah. It pleases me to know that my old friends Brothers Micah and Michael, and Mother Ophelia, who sought so hard in the 60’s and the 70’s to create a better new world, now serve our animal friends. (They were the organization that went in and rescued many animals from New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, and if they ignored the humans, at least they did good, nevertheless)

I lived through tumultuous times and saw how hard people tried to change the corrupt society they lived in. The assassinations of JFK, RFK, Martin Luther King Jr. and John Lennon, the Vietnam War, Kent State and anti-war movement, Che Guevara’s execution, the 1966-68 student riots, the music, the films. We were the idealistic generation, and if some choose to drop out and explore the possibility of a beautiful spiritual alternative, then more power to them.

The CIA and Mind Control experiments: After WWII the CIA enrolled many spies from the Nazi secret services. They also took over many scientists who had conducted mind control experiments for the Nazis. See Mark Zepezauer's The CIA's Greatest Hits and Bramley (above) for further references. From Bramley, pg 449: (Re: the Jonestown massacre) "On September 27, 1980, investigative reporter Jack Anderson ran a column about the Jonestown incident. One newspaper headlined the column: CIA involved in Jonestown Massacre? In this column, Anderson refers to a tape recording of Jim Jones in which he refers to a man called Dwyer. This may be Richard Dwyer, the CIA deputy chief in Guyana who accompanied the fact finding congressman Leo Ryan to Jonestown. Congressman Ryan was killed, but Dwyer, unharmed. Hmm.

After the massacre, investigators found large quantities of arms and powerful psychotropic drugs. Also found at Jonestown was chloral hydrate, which had been used in the CIA's secret mind control program MK ULTRA. It is entirely possible that Jim Jones' followers had been secretly administered these drugs to control them. Something I have seen happen in many other groups. Timothy Leary, the LSD promoting counterculture guru, also had CIA links. Was the massacre triggered by Congressman Leary's mission to investigate the group's activities? Jim Jones was known to have distinctive tattoos. Yet the person whose body was found had none.

Modern satanism is, I find, an extension of mind control experiments that were conducted by various secret services from the early 20th century on.
The CIA infiltrated and set up various New Age groups, cults, and psycho-therapy organizations. L Ron Hubbard's Church of Scientology had connections with the Office of Naval Intelligence, and Jim Jones, with the CIA. LSD experimentation was conducted on unsuspecting patients in mental health clinics.

And yes, it has been alleged that mind control experiments are being conducted through various satanic fronts, and there is a heavy emphasis on blood, child abuse, ritual sacrifice, and psychological shock on the general population through sensational killings.

http://www.whale.to/b/aquino.html

Lt. Col. (ret'd) Michael Aquino of the Psychological Warfare Division of the US Army is one example of where I believe that 'satanism' can be a front for using trauma as a form of mind control.

It would be a lot harder to prove satanic ritual at work here. The whole process of ritual is to create a mind control matrix so powerful people can be conditioned to do things they never would do otherwise, or, remove inhibitions that previously acted as a check on the deepest urges of their psyche. Such people rarely confess.


It also is very interesting to see occult symbolism in horrific events like 9/11, the London Tube Bombings (7/7/7) and Operation 'Shock and Awe' (Shekinah) Such visual symbology can literally change us..


One can really get sucked into this, but what gets me is the underlying psychology. To me, the real satanists aren't people play acting something they read about, but the torturers of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, Bush and Blair, and the Wall Street banks :)

The Masons: They are one interesting group. Their mythology states they are the builders of Solomon's temple, and their outwards impulse is humanitarian and utopian. The craft they speak of concerns the building of a new temple, but also, a new society. They are thought to be behind the revolutionary societies that created the French, American, Russian (and Italian) revolutions.

It is in Italy, however, that one sees an interesting dichotomy. Italians have a fascination for investigating possible satanic links to serial killers and child sex abuse. The Catholic Church under Pope Paul II reiterated its ban on any Catholic joining the Masons, and this goes back to the time when Garibaldi, the Italian liberator, attacked the Church's power and was roundly criticized for being a revolutionary mason. There is no love lost between the groups, and those feelings run deep.

Yet it was in Italy we learned about a masonic lodge called P2 Propaganda Lodge, which worked with the Vatican and the Mafia, and was set up by the CIA! http://rawilson.com/undercontrol.html They were part of underground groups set up in Europe to counter communism, and followed the already established template of various interlocking criminal/masonic/religious/ military intelligence networks. (See, the Moonies) And, this group was responsible for the Milan train station bombing, the assassination of premier Aldo Moro, and other terrorist attacks to try to destabilise Italian society and bring in a right wing government.

Therefore, I do believe there are such groups, but their purpose is to establish elite control over the population. Satanism is just a front used to hide their real goals.

The Power Of A Curse, or, Voodoo: There are people that believe in such things, and I've been asked many times if they were under a curse of some kind which caused their misfortunes? Of course there are some that practice Voodoo, or Santeria. I used to work for a Government Agency and one day a lady took exception to the way she felt she had been treated. As she left she yelled, "I put a hex on all of you!" Within a week, every person in our department had an accident, thankfully minor ones. I say that of course such power, or directed energies can affect us. We also have the power to NOT be affected by them.

But I say this to you. Such curses always affect the people who make them. Better to be at peace, and let things pass right through you.

And yes, some people practice black magic. Yet you look at Aleister Crowley, who was not only a spy for British Intelligence, but insane. And James Jesus Angleton, the CIA spymaster, was probably paranoid, and he set up the P2 masonic lodge in Italy. Most people practicing black magic just use it to psychologically control others or work through their own psychoses. They try to control entities yet end end up being controlled by them. See my "Angels, Spirits, Demons and Djinn" http://manfromatlan.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... jinns.html to get an idea:)

It is a valid argument to say that demonic possession is simply a form of mental illness. Indeed, the ancients used to argue that the mentally ill were 'demon possessed". I, happen to believe that such energies are indeed, real, and whether one is performing an exorcism or a visualization to help people with their problems, it is the end result that counts.

Christ and Anti-Christ: The world's religions create this need to believe in saviours, and the forces that oppose them. I disagree. It depends on us, and the choices we make. I know that each of us can choose to align with either of these energies, and manifest them within ourselves.

Satan: So, is Satan real? Yes, indeed. As long as you also accept that Satan is a form of consciousness. As long as you accept that Satan, like God, resides within us, and the path you choose is the one that determines your fate, and not, an external force. We are faced with these choices every day, to do good or evil, to accept injustice or not, to allow ourselves to be manipulated by lies or, to find our own balance. We make a decision, each day, to give in to fear and hatred, or, to know compassion, faith, and love.

And, even when we are tempted to make the wrong choice, there always is the path that leads back to God"
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Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Posts: 615

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:35 am   Post subject: Re: Satan~ism   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, all,

I've studied and observed many different social and other groups over the last 40 plus years, including, um, satanists. Thus, my interest was piqued by seeing how the Knox-Sollecito trial had all sorts of occult symbolism thrown into the mix, and by seeing how open Italians were to discussions about 'satanic groups' and ritual murders. I also thought it a great pity that some felt any discussion of a murder that took place in Italy must, be filtered though a North American literal minded consciousness, and there were nuances that therefore missed being debated.

I also felt that PM MIgnini was similarly hindered in properly prosecuting the case because he was discouraged from presenting any hypothesis that even remotely touched upon such influence.

I am reposting in full an article, Satan~ism I wrote last December. http://www.manfromatlan.blogspot.com/20 ... anism.html

I strongly feel that young people nowadays are influenced by violent, satanic imagery. Hollyweird does its best to play up that angle, and Knox and Sollecito were part of a generation that are huge consumers of supernatural symbolism. This therefore is a valid topic of discussion, which I present to you. Some may be er, allergic to the subject. Some may be interested.

Please feel free to add your comments; please, also, respect the rules about going O/T.

"An Italian court has just overturned the conviction of public prosecutor, PM Giuliano Mignini, accused of illegally wiretapping a prosecutor and police he felt were impeding his search for a serial killer. Mignini had been attacked for theorizing that a series of murders in the Florence area were the work of a satanic cult, with friends in high places. And right after that, this headline appeared in Italian news.

"Five arrested over Lampedusa 'voodoo' murder"

"Five people have been arrested on suspicion of murder after more than a dozen illegal immigrants were thrown from a boat in a "voodoo ritual to calm stormy seas," an Italian prosecutor has claimed" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... urder.html

Questions: What drives the belief in Satan, and how is it manifested? Given world events, are we ruled by human beings who chose to be evil, or are they actually controlled by forces of evil? Do satanic groups exist? Or just mentally ill people acting out stuff they read or saw in the movies? Or, again, is all this a manifestation of our psychology? Does Satan exist? As a being, or, a force?

Some say that Satan rules the earth.

Conventional mythology and monotheistic religions hold that this being is a lesser angel, angry at God, and therefore always trying to subvert God's creation, and turn humanity away. Or, an aspect of God. Or, an energy.

Ahriman: Zoroastrianism holds that Ahriman, the prototype for Satan, is the 'destroyer of hope' that must fight Ahura Mazda, the 'bringer of light' . This is a form of dualism that suggests two equal forces. It is a battle that has always been, and will continue to the end times, or, as I like to call it, the beginning times.

Then again, in a now extinct form of Zoroastrianism, we see Zurvan, the original creator god, within which both good and evil are contained. So, Satan could well be an aspect of God.

Mesopotamian texts are the first written history we have of the symbolism of the snake, or serpent, which have since been perverted as symbols of Satan. In ancient times, the snake was the symbol of knowledge. It is still a symbol of healing, in the twinned serpent caduceus. And, it is the symbol of sacred sexuality, all forces that have been subverted by the controlling forms of religion.

Satanic Theology: There must be protagonist and antagonist, or competing forces. There must be apocalyptical struggle. There must be good and evil, and the struggle between them is the basis of this theology.

Shamanism: The earlier spirituality of natural forces and earth energy ended up in conflict with the later sky god religions; yet, even in Mesopotamian culture, it was understood there was a dualism that combined the two energies, the male and female, to make the whole. Yes, shamanism, with its emphasis on blood, masks, and human sacrifice, at times veered into some deep dark spaces the sky religions sought to suppress. Yet the later religions, in trying to put down the feminine, actually incorporated many shamanic practices into themselves.

And Satanism actually grew as a result of this suppression, and a lot of what we consider to be good or evil is often a religious construct, with no basis of justification except as a means of control of a competing model of spirituality. I do not argue that good or evil does not exist, but they happen within what is known as Universal Law, and not religion, which are man made laws. Even the belief in black as the colour of evil is based on this split.

Interesting side note: I use black as a healing colour as it represents karma. Karma is correlated with sin, that there are consequences for our actions...I also see a super black, which is the complete absence of light, as the colour of the Void, the 'nothingness' that Buddhism attempts to get to, that Science is only beginning to understand. Here is also, death and destruction, the chaos beyond ordinary physical laws that help create life anew..

I personally believe in a flow of energy between Sky God and Mother Earth, and that we exist between the two, and bring balance through ourselves. It is only when we are not in balance that we commit evil.

Secret Groups: There have been secret societies since Babylonian times. There are good forces that serve and try to take humanity to a higher level, some that, rightly or wrongly, feel they alone can decide what is good for humanity and the direction it must take, and some that use black magic, or fear, ritual and psychology to control people. For further reading I refer to Pauwel and Bergier's Morning of the Magicians, Manly P. Hall's The Secret Teachings of the Ages, and William Bramley's The Gods of Eden. Rudolph Steiner is also a good source for some of the battles between the different factions of these occult societies. There also is a very strong connection between some of them and the Nazis, far too numerous for me to list here, but I suggest you read about Nicolas Roerich and the Thule Society, and Heinrich Himmler's expeditions to the Himalayas.

Then, there are the Freemasons, about whom more later.

Modern Satanism:

The Process: The first satanic group I met was called the Process, or The Church of the Final Judgement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_Church
Led by Robert de Grimston and his wife Mary Anne MacLean, they were a splinter group from Scientology. In 1966, they retreated from the world to Xtul, in the Yucatan peninsula. There, with the aid of various stimuli and psychedelia, they channeled God, aka Jehovah, then, the later aspects Christ, Lucifer and Satan, and stated we all vibrate according to one or the other aspect, and we must eventually integrate all four. They were much perturbed when I said I already integrated all four. I was a young whippersnapper then :)

Having been born out of the various psychoanalytical therapy movements of the 60’s, the Process was widely influential with Rock Stars and in the counter culture movement. The Process eventually fell apart when it turned out they had influenced multiple killers Charles Manson and David Berkowitz, the 'Son of Sam' and they tried to change direction.

I found it interesting they had a secret, undisclosed belief in long ago UFO’s visiting Earth based on the writings of Brinsley Le Poer Trench, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinsley_L ... _Clancarty and http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/9923/trench.html and that their ideology had some resemblance with mine. But I saw also elements of manipulation and control I would never be able to live with.

Yet, for all they might truly believe in an apocalyptical world and that Charles Manson was a sign of the end times, there was something beautiful there too, in that even if they got Satan all wrong, they still got God, somewhat right.

THE GODS ON WAR

Robert de Grimston, Process Church of the Final Judgment.

http://feastofhateandfear.com/archives/robert_07.html

Yeow! The reading is a riff on War, and yes it should be read in full, great poetry cannot be summarised but read in its entirety.

But here's the conclusion:

"1.15 Humanity as a whole will not rise above its conflicts. Even if it were to do so it would still destroy all the physical, social and moral structures which it has created, because it would see their total invalidity. But it will not; so the destruction will take place in a chaos and confusion of ignorance, with the vast majority still clinging desperately to their hollow materialistic dreams, even in the depths of their final despair; whilst the few who do rise above the conflicts, will stand aside, separated from the mass, united not within but without the man-made structures of the human game, and linked to a new reality founded not on the laws of men but on the Laws of GOD."

The Process Church reinvented itself as the New Ager Foundation Faith of the Millennium, then as one of America’s most well known Animal Rescue services, the Best Friends Animal Society based in Utah. It pleases me to know that my old friends Brothers Micah and Michael, and Mother Ophelia, who sought so hard in the 60’s and the 70’s to create a better new world, now serve our animal friends. (They were the organization that went in and rescued many animals from New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, and if they ignored the humans, at least they did good, nevertheless)

I lived through tumultuous times and saw how hard people tried to change the corrupt society they lived in. The assassinations of JFK, RFK, Martin Luther King Jr. and John Lennon, the Vietnam War, Kent State and anti-war movement, Che Guevara’s execution, the 1966-68 student riots, the music, the films. We were the idealistic generation, and if some choose to drop out and explore the possibility of a beautiful spiritual alternative, then more power to them.

The CIA and Mind Control experiments: After WWII the CIA enrolled many spies from the Nazi secret services. They also took over many scientists who had conducted mind control experiments for the Nazis. See Mark Zepezauer's The CIA's Greatest Hits and Bramley (above) for further references. From Bramley, pg 449: (Re: the Jonestown massacre) "On September 27, 1980, investigative reporter Jack Anderson ran a column about the Jonestown incident. One newspaper headlined the column: CIA involved in Jonestown Massacre? In this column, Anderson refers to a tape recording of Jim Jones in which he refers to a man called Dwyer. This may be Richard Dwyer, the CIA deputy chief in Guyana who accompanied the fact finding congressman Leo Ryan to Jonestown. Congressman Ryan was killed, but Dwyer, unharmed. Hmm.

After the massacre, investigators found large quantities of arms and powerful psychotropic drugs. Also found at Jonestown was chloral hydrate, which had been used in the CIA's secret mind control program MK ULTRA. It is entirely possible that Jim Jones' followers had been secretly administered these drugs to control them. Something I have seen happen in many other groups. Timothy Leary, the LSD promoting counterculture guru, also had CIA links. Was the massacre triggered by Congressman Leary's mission to investigate the group's activities? Jim Jones was known to have distinctive tattoos. Yet the person whose body was found had none.

Modern satanism is, I find, an extension of mind control experiments that were conducted by various secret services from the early 20th century on.
The CIA infiltrated and set up various New Age groups, cults, and psycho-therapy organizations. L Ron Hubbard's Church of Scientology had connections with the Office of Naval Intelligence, and Jim Jones, with the CIA. LSD experimentation was conducted on unsuspecting patients in mental health clinics.

And yes, it has been alleged that mind control experiments are being conducted through various satanic fronts, and there is a heavy emphasis on blood, child abuse, ritual sacrifice, and psychological shock on the general population through sensational killings.

http://www.whale.to/b/aquino.html

Lt. Col. (ret'd) Michael Aquino of the Psychological Warfare Division of the US Army is one example of where I believe that 'satanism' can be a front for using trauma as a form of mind control.

It would be a lot harder to prove satanic ritual at work here. The whole process of ritual is to create a mind control matrix so powerful people can be conditioned to do things they never would do otherwise, or, remove inhibitions that previously acted as a check on the deepest urges of their psyche. Such people rarely confess.


It also is very interesting to see occult symbolism in horrific events like 9/11, the London Tube Bombings (7/7/7) and Operation 'Shock and Awe' (Shekinah) Such visual symbology can literally change us..


One can really get sucked into this, but what gets me is the underlying psychology. To me, the real satanists aren't people play acting something they read about, but the torturers of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, Bush and Blair, and the Wall Street banks :)

The Masons: They are one interesting group. Their mythology states they are the builders of Solomon's temple, and their outwards impulse is humanitarian and utopian. The craft they speak of concerns the building of a new temple, but also, a new society. They are thought to be behind the revolutionary societies that created the French, American, Russian (and Italian) revolutions.

It is in Italy, however, that one sees an interesting dichotomy. Italians have a fascination for investigating possible satanic links to serial killers and child sex abuse. The Catholic Church under Pope Paul II reiterated its ban on any Catholic joining the Masons, and this goes back to the time when Garibaldi, the Italian liberator, attacked the Church's power and was roundly criticized for being a revolutionary mason. There is no love lost between the groups, and those feelings run deep.

Yet it was in Italy we learned about a masonic lodge called P2 Propaganda Lodge, which worked with the Vatican and the Mafia, and was set up by the CIA! http://rawilson.com/undercontrol.html They were part of underground groups set up in Europe to counter communism, and followed the already established template of various interlocking criminal/masonic/religious/ military intelligence networks. (See, the Moonies) And, this group was responsible for the Milan train station bombing, the assassination of premier Aldo Moro, and other terrorist attacks to try to destabilise Italian society and bring in a right wing government.

Therefore, I do believe there are such groups, but their purpose is to establish elite control over the population. Satanism is just a front used to hide their real goals.

The Power Of A Curse, or, Voodoo: There are people that believe in such things, and I've been asked many times if they were under a curse of some kind which caused their misfortunes? Of course there are some that practice Voodoo, or Santeria. I used to work for a Government Agency and one day a lady took exception to the way she felt she had been treated. As she left she yelled, "I put a hex on all of you!" Within a week, every person in our department had an accident, thankfully minor ones. I say that of course such power, or directed energies can affect us. We also have the power to NOT be affected by them.

But I say this to you. Such curses always affect the people who make them. Better to be at peace, and let things pass right through you.

And yes, some people practice black magic. Yet you look at Aleister Crowley, who was not only a spy for British Intelligence, but insane. And James Jesus Angleton, the CIA spymaster, was probably paranoid, and he set up the P2 masonic lodge in Italy. Most people practicing black magic just use it to psychologically control others or work through their own psychoses. They try to control entities yet end end up being controlled by them. See my "Angels, Spirits, Demons and Djinn" http://manfromatlan.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... jinns.html to get an idea:)

It is a valid argument to say that demonic possession is simply a form of mental illness. Indeed, the ancients used to argue that the mentally ill were 'demon possessed". I, happen to believe that such energies are indeed, real, and whether one is performing an exorcism or a visualization to help people with their problems, it is the end result that counts.

Christ and Anti-Christ: The world's religions create this need to believe in saviours, and the forces that oppose them. I disagree. It depends on us, and the choices we make. I know that each of us can choose to align with either of these energies, and manifest them within ourselves.

Satan: So, is Satan real? Yes, indeed. As long as you also accept that Satan is a form of consciousness. As long as you accept that Satan, like God, resides within us, and the path you choose is the one that determines your fate, and not, an external force. We are faced with these choices every day, to do good or evil, to accept injustice or not, to allow ourselves to be manipulated by lies or, to find our own balance. We make a decision, each day, to give in to fear and hatred, or, to know compassion, faith, and love.

And, even when we are tempted to make the wrong choice, there always is the path that leads back to God"

Dear Ergon,
Satan is literally the accuser. it is modern fascination that ascribes Satan to "evil". Evil is in the heart of the beholder and it is unfair to blame human behavior on him. It's not like we could accept personal responsibility and change. Nope, we have a fall guy. A real Satanist would never consider doing something heinous, because one of the tenants of Satanism is personal responsibility. Fake Satanists are basing their horrendous actions upon what the christian church says is evil. That's how you tell the imposters...if their actions are in direct conflict with the modern church, it's safe to say they are not real Satanists. Once again..fear and hatred are not Satanic...they are emotions.
Your description of Satan= evil, is fantasy. And you, my friend, are ascribing modern christian ideas to to 'your' idea of Satan. It was entertaning, tho.
I do like that you have approached this case from an astrological viewpoint. Tamale
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:20 pm   Post subject: Re: Satan~ism   

Dear Tamale,

I don't see at all where I described satanism as evil, but rather, it was taken over as a form of mind control by fake organizations. What THEY do is evil. And in describing Satan as an aspect of human consciousness perhaps we actually are in agreement? I'd just say there's a spiritual consciousness as well. And, I registered my disagreement with monotheistic religious views on the subject, so surely you can't say my views are "christian"?

Still, thanks for your comment. It is nice we can engage in polite dialogue, one gets so used to the other kind :)

Ergon
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:21 am   Post subject: Re: Satan~ism   

Yeah Ergon...I believe in civil discourse.
It is not my intention to argue with you about Satan, or the occult or anything.
Do you know Michael Aquino? His little band of "black" magicians are Evil to the extant that they are woefully unbalanced. To me evil is unbalanced force. They may call themselves satanic (setian), but they are evil. They, in fact, they do practice lesser black magic (mind control).
Ergon, the torturers at Abu Graib, Bush, et al are evil (unbalanced force), but not satanic. That is where we differ. Murderers, child abusers and the like are evil, not satanic. It is a mistake to ascribe the human qualities we abhor to a satan instead of accepting responsibility for the evil inside of us. And it is just plain lazy that humans blame their evilness on satan.
Be well, Tamale
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:35 am   Post subject: Re: Satan~ism   

Hi, Tamale,

My central thesis is "Modern satanism is, I find, an extension of mind control experiments that were conducted by various secret services from the early 20th century on.

The CIA infiltrated and set up various New Age groups, cults, and psycho-therapy organizations. L Ron Hubbard's Church of Scientology had connections with the Office of Naval Intelligence, and Jim Jones, with the CIA. LSD experimentation was conducted on unsuspecting patients in mental health clinics"

You're right, however, to correct my poorly written sentence about Abu Ghraib. I missed that. Yes, the torturers were evil, and not, 'satanic'. And I totally agree that evil is a lack of balance, and hope I have made that clear elsewhere. I also see that we often project what is inside ourselves to create an, external, non-connected, other.

Peace,
Ergon
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:09 am   Post subject: Re: Satan~ism   

Hi Ergon,
Ok, very cool. You do have an understanding about the differences. I did not want to get into a conversation like some of the other ones. It is not my place to correct you, and I only called you on that to gauge your knowledge. If you had insisted the two are synonymous, I would have lost interest.
Yep, we are in general agreement about the mind control stuff. I must say the authorities at the CIA do not have "initiated" knowledge, therefore the policy makers do not have the comprehensive picture. They do have certain people on board who do "know", but the agency must rely on the word of it's experts. Some of those experts are genuine and some are dopes. Maybe that is why their intelligence/technique is hit and miss. And there are lots of other variables. Mostly, they are dangerous, Not because they are spot on, but because they are not. What is that saying...a little knowledge is a dangerous thing? In my mind, parallels can be drawn between the CIA and the Nazi regime.
Thanks for being open to discussion. Tamale (forgive typos, now and in the future).
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:08 pm   Post subject: Re: Satan~ism   

Yah, and then we got Reinhard Gehlen to run our European networks for 50 years. P2, Operations Gladio and Paperclip, were all run through the Agency.

But, regarding the 'experts' the Agency runs, it really was interesting for me to observe how on the one hand they were trying to recruit people with measurable PSI abilities (NLP and other programs come to mind) and on the other hand, use fronts like James Randi and CSICOP to discourage any widespread interest in the subject.

No wonder they're fiddling around in the blind.
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Offline corpusvile


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:44 pm   Post subject: Re: Satan~ism   

Very interesting article Ergon. However from what I read, neither Mignini or Giuttari felt there was a Satanic cult were behind the MOF murders, but rather an occult group who believed in esoteric healing to cure either sexually transmitted diseases or else sexual disorders. (I unfortunately speak little Italian and google translate is a bit dodgy)
However this alleged group were indeed connected with Narducci married to a heiress to a fashion empire and an ambassador also being a suspect among others.
Interestingly enough though, the primary offenders, Pacciani & his snack buddies did engage in Satanic or black magic rituals.
Interesting that you mention the Process Church as well. Quite apart from being connected to Manson and allegedly Berkowitz, they're also linked to the murder of Roy Radin a Hollywood producer and open occultist /Satanist. Radin's killer was William Mensder who Berkowitz allegedly called his accomplice, referring to him as "Manson II". The cops acknowledged that Mendser was "part of some kind of hit squad". If all this wasn't enough he was also a brief Zodiac killer suspect before being cleared through dna.
I'm on my phone ATM but will get back to you on Aquino who is another fellow I find interesting. Have you heard of the finders cult btw? That's a really strange and decidedly creepy story that broke in Florida in 1987 and seemed to have a CIA connection and appeared to be engaging in not only apparent international child trafficking but possibly potential domestic terrorism. The group's leader had a wife and son employed by the CIA or so he claimed.
I'll get back to you with the police report on the case tomorrow. Interesting thread mate.
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Offline corpusvile


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:05 am   Post subject: Re: Satan~ism   

Found that link on The Finders cult, really odd story.
http://www.brainsturbator.com/posts/93/the-finders-no-easy-answers
The NY Times also did a piece on it.
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/02/08/us/inquiry-spreads-on-6-children-and-cult.html

Aquino is an interesting character. I saw him ages ago on Geraldo's hilarious special on Satanism and I gotta say, he came across as one of the more sensible ones on it, making some very valid points wrt debunking SRA claims, such as asking why these unknown cultists weren't named, identified to the police and arrested. I've also read his rebuttal to the Presidio allegations, which struck me at the time as reasonable.
That said, he was also linked to the alleged Franklin coverup, which I'm not sure what to make of. I have no real opinion on either the Presidio or Franklin but find Bonnaci being awarded $1million in damages intriguing and afaik (I'd need to re-check though), Aquino was named by Bonacci under oath.

I find his intel links intriguing also and this seems to be rather consistent when it comes to intelligence and whacky cults, as The Process Church also had alleged intelligence links and indeed the aforementioned Finders cult seemed to have intelligence links. This can apply internationally also, as the MOF case was suspected of being tied to a cult, but there was also proven SISDE/Italian Secret Service involvement, although for what reason is anyone's guess.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/09/rorycarroll.theobserver
Here's more on Roy Radin's killer, William Mentzer.
http://www.murderpedia.org/male.M/m/mentzer-william.htm

I'd be open minded to the infiltration of various groups, cult or otherwise, by intelligence services but would be inclined to think that this could be for all sorts of reasons, from black projects to studying the processing of disinformation, etc.

As for SRA, while there's been proven isolated cases of such things, with trials and convictions to show for it, I don't believe such things are widespread and feel such things are merely used by the offender as a means to an end, mainly to scare child victims into submission. Even the claims of "animal sacrifice" could be simply an adult offender killing a small animal, again to scare a child into submission. Such things then get misconstrued as being part of a ritual, which then involves a large network when I doubt if such a scenario is the case at all, really.

I know very little if anything about mind control experiments, except that MK Ultra was proven to have existed and that various criminals were subjected to experiments involving LSD, one of them being mob boss James Whitey Bulger whle at Alcatraz, according to his biography anyway. There are even, bizarrely enough apparent peripheral links with serial killers as the unabomber was also an alleged subject, although I'm not sure on the veracity of this. Charlie Otero, whose family were murdered by the BTK serial killer Dennis Rader is even today convinced Rader didn't act alone and thinks his family were probably murdered due to his Air Force father's work with intelligence, allegedly connected to the infamous School of the Americas in Latin America, which by all accounts was a torture academy, which is essentially how the Oteros were murdered, creepily enough. Otero makes this claim in the recent documentary, I Survived BTK.
Anyway, thanks for the thread, I'm always interested in weird stuff like this. :mrgreen:
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