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XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22, 11 - FEB 20, 12

Moderators: Nell, Ergon, Michael, Moderators


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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
#amandaknox co-appellant Rafaelle Sollecito biting his nails as his lawyer sinks lower and lower into her deep leather chair.


Barbie
RT @TFPNigelHorne: amanda knox appeal - isn't it time both camps left the jurors to make up their minds? #amandaknox #meredithkercher http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/85009,new ... her-murder Amen to that...


BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Prosecution in #amandaknox case nodding vigourously as Lumumba lawyer continues to attack her.


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Pacelli needs a congregation, not a courtroom #amandaknox

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
"A-MAN-da." So loud this time that everybody jumped - Lumumba lawyer in #amandaknox case.



andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Pacelli keeps saying #amandaknox couldn't have known things that were all over the papers the days after the murder. A bit disingenuous.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Revenge is a dish best served cold - and four years old. That is Lumumba policy in #amandaknox case.


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
#sollecito clearly upset about character assassination of #amandaknox, frequently looking over at her.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Rafaelle Sollecito dress sense questionable today at #amandaknox case. Cream bomber jacket.

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
#sollecito clearly upset about character assassination of #amandaknox, frequently looking over at her.


LOL. He is not worried, he is just now finding out about certain details I suspect.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Pacelli keeps saying #amandaknox couldn't have known things that were all over the papers the days after the murder. A bit disingenuous.



I don't know. Is there anybody here who believes Amanda Knox reads the paper?
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Pacelli keeps saying #amandaknox couldn't have known things that were all over the papers the days after the murder. A bit disingenuous.



I don't know. Is there anybody here who believes Amanda Knox reads the paper?



And we are constantly reminded about how she couldn't speak Italian back then...so how does a non-Italian speaker read Italian newspapers?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Lumumba attny cites #amandaknox 2009 testimony about how she asked police for paper, pen and volunteered English statement naming Lumumba.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Anyone else annoyed, ( disgusted) by the tone of Barbie's and Andra's tweets?

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
#amandaknox lawyer objects, Pacelli tells him to wait his turn.


andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Pacelli: If this was a misunderstanding, why didn't #amandaknox clarify things on Nov. 8 when appearing before Judge Claudia Matteini?



BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Pacelli: why didn't #amandaknox correct the situation when she had a chance? Why didn't she or her mother go to the police w/the truth?


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Pacelli quoting #amandaknox interception from prison telling her mother she felt bad about Patrick. Haven't heard this before.


andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Pacelli citing bugged Nov. 10 prison conversation between #amandaknox and her mother, Edda Mellas

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Anyone else annoyed, ( disgusted) by the tone of Barbie's and Andra's tweets?

Annoyed. They are bored I guess. Better to be quiet if you are bored I would say. Interesting stuff coming up now.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Apropos of not much Sollecito lawyer in #amandaknox trial has an enormous ring with many many diamonds. Looks real too. Has left it on desk


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Pacelli: Why didn't #amandaknox say this is a lie, that Patrick was innocent. "The liar Amanda" didn't say anything to correct accusation.

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Pacelli keeps saying #amandaknox couldn't have known things that were all over the papers the days after the murder. A bit disingenuous.



I don't know. Is there anybody here who believes Amanda Knox reads the paper?



And we are constantly reminded about how she couldn't speak Italian back then...so how does a non-Italian speaker read Italian newspapers?


Very true!
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Lumumba lawyer has just used the word "imbroglio" v good old Italian word #amandaknox

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Pacelli calls #amandaknox a witch


BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Oooh. Name calling really cooking now. #amandaknox is a "witch of deception - "strega" was the word Lumumba lawyer used.




BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Pacelli: #amandaknox is a strega! Ouch!



BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
For the Italian-lovers among you the full phrase was "strega dill inganno" #amandaknox

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Now Lumumba lawyer is pointing at #amandaknox and calling her a liar

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Pacelli wipes his brow, asks court to uphold conviction in #amandaknox appeal.


BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Lumumba lawyer has finished summing up in #amandaknox case. That was really brutal. Though all we learnt is that Lumumba is still v upset.


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Lunch break until 2:30pm in #amandaknox appeal.


andreavogt Andrea Vogt
@derianarl: goes to show the old Italian inquisitorial style still part of tactics. His exact words were "strega del inganno".

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
andreavogt
@derianarl: goes to show the old Italian inquisitorial style still part of tactics. His exact words were "strega del inganno".


With that tweet from Andrea Vogt it becomes painfully clear that Daniel Sandford reporting for BBC is not fluent in Italian. It makes me wonder how he would know what is a "good old Italian word" and what not.

So his tweets are probably more illusion than reality. Sigh. Who would have thought?


Last edited by Nell on Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

This article tweeted by Barbie is really worth a read, if any of you missed it:


Amanda Knox: why both sides should now shut up

Verdict will be worthless if it is won in the media and not in the courtroom
By Nigel Horne
LAST UPDATED 7:56 AM, SEPTEMBER 26, 2011

THE FIRST POST

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Last time around Pacelli made headlines with "she-devil", this time with "witch" #amandaknox #extreme

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Barbie, running with the pack. Ugh. Credibility: Zero.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
This article tweeted by Barbie is really worth a read, if any of you missed it:


Amanda Knox: why both sides should now shut up

Verdict will be worthless if it is won in the media and not in the courtroom
By Nigel Horne
LAST UPDATED 7:56 AM, SEPTEMBER 26, 2011

THE FIRST POST


The article seemed good at the beginning, but it has a bad ending: The journalist concludes that if both sides don't shut up, it will look like a verdict won in the media rather than the halls of justice.

Now my question is: Who was in the media non-stop trying to gain influence? The Melloxes. There is basically no "other side" and that is what's wrong with the article. It doesn't highlight that. It asks the Kercher's to be quiet too, after they dared to speak out for the first time and ask for justice (well, I belive it was the 3rd time they spoke to the media).
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Rafaelle Sollecito dress sense questionable today at #amandaknox case. Cream bomber jacket.


Does not take much to see that Raffie does not have a BIG $$$$ team of 'handlers' to counsel him on innocent looking Courtroom apparel and downcast doe like eyes like KNox does.

His primary apparel talents lie in coordinating his clothes colors to his knife of the day's color


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Hmm. I see Amanda couldn't wait...to run her hand across her eyes twice..in as many seconds........the actress needing to let everyone know that's she's tired and .......umm.......stressed. Poor thing.

And, very unconvincing. Didn't even take the time to get properly settled in her seat, before the act began.

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox has split personality: lawyer
September 26, 2011 - 9:34PM
Associated Press

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-wo ... 1ktjm.html

Some more details of Pacelli's speech.


Thanks everyone for the great updates!


Last edited by Ava on Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Could you see how how uncomfortable Kurt and Chris looked in the vid? They KNEW everyone was going to be reminded about what Amanda did to Patrick, and how many see her.

And, Pacelli got it absolutely right.

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
--- snip ---
I believe she's somehow scared of being left alone.
--- snap ---


I don't think she is scared of being alone. She doesn't handle well rejection. That is also the reason why I believe the fact that Meredith didn't respond to her text messages the night of Halloween and the demotion from Patrick Lumumba were things that upset her. Meredith ignored her and Patrick Lumumba moved on after finding Amanda Knox wasn't the right one for the job.



Nell, I said being left alone (not being alone), in the sense of being abandoned...and/or rejected, so I guess we're on the same page here. Like you I believe that AK felt offended by Meredith not responding to her and by Patrick's demotion.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   




Just catching up...thanks for posting that article, zorba. It's very touching, and very sad that both of Meredith's parents suffer from ill health now.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ava wrote:
Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
--- snip ---
I believe she's somehow scared of being left alone.
--- snap ---


I don't think she is scared of being alone. She doesn't handle well rejection. That is also the reason why I believe the fact that Meredith didn't respond to her text messages the night of Halloween and the demotion from Patrick Lumumba were things that upset her. Meredith ignored her and Patrick Lumumba moved on after finding Amanda Knox wasn't the right one for the job.



Nell, I said being left alone (not being alone), in the sense of being abandoned...and/or rejected, so I guess we're on the same page here. Like you I believe that AK felt offended by Meredith not responding to her and by Patrick's demotion.


Hi Ava, I might have misunderstood. English is not my first language. Like you, I believe she felt offended. Between her and Meredith might have also existed a rivalry because of Giacomo Silenzi. I don't remember where this information came from that Amanda was interested in Giacomo, but Giacomo fell in love with Meredith.

In recent articles it is reported that DJ and Amanda ended their relationship before she went to Perugia, but from what I remember they didn't break up and Amanda Knox got even into an argument with Meredith because of it. Meredith was the one who broke off with her boyfriend, because she didn't think it would work. She felt it was wrong that Amanda was dating other men behind DJ's back. I see, the PR campaign "corrected" this little glitch and DJ plays along.
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Maresca just getting started

Looking forward to his usual masterful Courtroom form


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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Before Maresca is getting started, in this article there is a picture of Carlo Pascelli:
(somehow I can't embed it, sorry)

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16077299
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
#meredithkercher lawyer Maresca heads to courtroom early to get ready for his closing arguments in #amandaknox appeal.


Quote:
BLNadeau
Court back in session with lawyers for #meredithkercher up. #amandaknox


Quote:
BBCDanielS
The lawyer for murder victim Meredith Kercher's family is on his feet in #amandaknox appeal.


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca: thanks everyone involved for dedicating effort to finding #meredithkercher justice


Quote:
BBCDanielS
Kercher lawyer in #amandaknox appeal: thank you to everyone who tried to find justice for Meredith


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca: "the whole world" continues to watch this process


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca: lecturing the jury on their responsibility. Says they agree with prosecution.


Quote:
BBCDanielS
Photograph of a beautiful smiling Meredith Kercher projected onto the courtroom screen as her family's lawyer talks in #amandaknox appeal.


Quote:
BLNadeau
Perfect view of #amandaknox from pressroom. Hands clasped to chin or taking notes.


Quote:
mchancecnn
#meredithkercher lawyer summing up case. Says #AmandaKnox will be released because of US pressure "that's what man on street thinks"


Quote:
BBCDanielS
#amandaknox listening intently, sitting upright, staring straight ahead as Kercher family lawyer addresses jury


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca: cannot pay for #meredithkercher suffering with money


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca: came to perugia but died like victim a mafia crime


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca: #meredithkercher came to perugia to study but died like victim of mafia crime


Quote:
BBCDanielS
#amandaknox glances across at the photograph of Meredith Kercher projected on the screen. No background rustling now. Everyone listening.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Thanks everyone for the updates!

Here is the link to John Hooper's article in

THE GUARDIAN

Amanda Knox is an enchanting witch, lawyer says

Italian court hears 24-year-old is a 'double soul' as she appeals against conviction for murdering British student Meredith Kercher

by John Hooper
Monday 26 September 2011 12.59 BST


Last edited by guermantes on Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
mchancecnn
What do #meredithkercher family mean when they say their daughter has been forgotten? Isn't she why we are all here?


Quote:
BBCDanielS
Kercher lawyer says Meredith had come to Perugia to study but ended up like a victim of a mafia hit


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca: #meredithkercher had over 40 lesions, on her face, her mouth, her hands...


Quote:
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Now Kercher family lawyer is showing photographs of Meredith Kercher dead, with her throat slit to #amandaknox jury


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca: #meredithkercher didn't have defense wounds, it means she was held by more than one aggressor #amandaknox


Quote:
andreavogt
Kercher family lawyer going over the more than 40 wounds found on #meredithkercher body. Gruesome photos. #tragic


Quote:
BBCDanielS
Jury absolutely gripped by Kercher family lawyer who is slow and calm compared to the histrionics of this morning. #amandaknox appeal


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca: disses the independent exam of evidence as done by people who didn't know what they were doing, inexperienced #amandaknox


Quote:
BBCDanielS
Jury absolutely gripped by Kercher family lawyer who is slow and calm compared to the histrionics of lawyer this morning. #amandaknox appeal


Quote:
BBCDanielS
Kercher lawyer has poured scorn on the experts who questioned the DNA evidence against #amandaknox
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
maresca: tells jury they must take into consideration of ALL the consultants and make a decision based on ALL voices #amandaknox


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca seems to have a mafia theme going today, makes another mafia reference.. #amandaknox


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca sticking up for original findings by Stefanoni, says they were painstakingly completed, says no trace of contamination #amandaknox


Quote:
mchancecnn
"I don't want to make a spectacle, just want to remind you this is not fiction" #meredithkercher lawyer as he shows slides of victim body


Quote:
BLNadeau
#amandaknox looks stunned, staring straight ahead at Maresca, face blank


Quote:
BBCDanielS
Looks like Meredith Kercher's family lawyer still firmly believes #amandaknox and former boyfriend are guilty of murder.


Quote:
BBCDanielS
#amandaknox pale but composed. Listening. Blinking slowly.


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca says the independent review was partial to defense #amandaknox


Quote:
BBCDanielS
#amandaknox former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito also listening carefully. Swallowing uncomfortably.


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca was thr when bloody felpa was taken in2 evidence, not left behind as media reported, remembers how cold it was that day. #amandaknox
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
--- snip ---
I believe she's somehow scared of being left alone.
--- snap ---


I don't think she is scared of being alone. She doesn't handle well rejection. That is also the reason why I believe the fact that Meredith didn't respond to her text messages the night of Halloween and the demotion from Patrick Lumumba were things that upset her. Meredith ignored her and Patrick Lumumba moved on after finding Amanda Knox wasn't the right one for the job.



Nell, I said being left alone (not being alone), in the sense of being abandoned...and/or rejected, so I guess we're on the same page here. Like you I believe that AK felt offended by Meredith not responding to her and by Patrick's demotion.


Hi Ava, I might have misunderstood. English is not my first language. Like you, I believe she felt offended. Between her and Meredith might have also existed a rivalry because of Giacomo Silenzi. I don't remember where this information came from that Amanda was interested in Giacomo, but Giacomo fell in love with Meredith.

In recent articles it is reported that DJ and Amanda ended their relationship before she went to Perugia, but from what I remember they didn't break up and Amanda Knox got even into an argument with Meredith because of it. Meredith was the one who broke off with her boyfriend, because she didn't think it would work. She felt it was wrong that Amanda was dating other men behind DJ's back. I see, the PR campaign "corrected" this little glitch and DJ plays along.


:) I was probably being a bit cryptic, and tired.
Didn't Amanda tell Meredith at some point that Meredith "could have" Giacomo?
I don't know if Amanda was interested in him because he was male or because Meredith was interested in him or both.
But Meredith most probably knew him longer than Amanda did.

And did they really put out a corrected version of DJ and Amanda? No surprise in a way.
I also remember the argument about not having broken up and starting a new relationship.
Good thing that the internet preserves everything!


Last edited by Ava on Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

This guy must be a complete retard:

Quote:
mchancecnn
What do #meredithkercher family mean when they say their daughter has been forgotten? Isn't she why we are all here?


Hypocrite.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BBCDanielS
Kercher family lawyer dismissing #amandaknox defence team accusations of contamination of evidence as a "lie"


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca: #rudyguede is said 2 b lone wolf, but "not that way" Says were others there. Some1 in press room suggested "Lumumba" #amandaknox
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

stint7 wrote:
Maresca just getting started

Looking forward to his usual masterful Courtroom form


BBCDanielS Jury absolutely gripped by Kercher family lawyer who is slow and calm compared to the histrionics of lawyer this morning. #amandaknox appeal
1 minute ago

AHHHHH

Attorney Maresca lives up to expectations
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ava wrote:
--- snip ---
Didn't Amanda tell Meredith at some point that Meredith "could have" Giacomo?
--- snap ---


I remember that too, but I don't remember who was the source for this. It could be just another internet rumour. I remember to have read it, but I don't remember where the information came from.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca trying to give cred to Curatolo homeless witness who testified he saw #amandaknox and #sollecito night of murder.


Quote:
BBCDanielS
Kercher family lawyer dismisses idea that Rudy Guede (who has also been convicted of Meredith's murder) acted alone. #amandaknox


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca comparing cred of Curatolo to Aviello (mafioso) and Alessi (babykiller) called by defense in #amandaknox case.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
Reminding court of #Alessi's heinous crimes. Reminder: Alessi brot in 2 say Guede told him #amandaknox didn't do it in prison yard chat.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
Judge asks if Maresca wants to take a break, he says no need. Why don't they ask us? #amandaknox


Quote:
mchancecnn
Is it right for hurt civil parties to be heard in murder appeal case? #AmandaKnox #meredithkercher
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
#amandaknox lawyer is asleep! #siesta


According to Knox supporters only judges sleep during court hearings!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca describing how #meredithkercher was strangled and how her throat was sliced by more than two hands. #amandaknox


Quote:
BBCDanielS
Kercher family lawyer in #amandaknox appeal says prosecution were right to say that others were holding Meredith as killer cut her throat.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Maresca listing what #amandaknox was convicted of in addition to murder: staging a crime scene, theft... now on to motive.


Quote:
BLNadeau
#amandaknox won't look at picture of #meredithkercher battered body that Maresca shows again.


Quote:
BBCDanielS
Kercher family lawyer showing photos of body again in #amandaknox appeal. Emphasising was a sex crime + no defense wounds, so many attackers


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca: were these 40+ lesions made by one person while covering her nose and mouth and cutting her throat? #amandaknox


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca: This is the proof of the presence of more than one person. #amandaknox Court break until 4:45...
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Maresca shows photos of Meredith, asks how are the 40+ wounds (few defensive) the work of just one killer? Says impossible. Break 15 min.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
--- snip ---
Didn't Amanda tell Meredith at some point that Meredith "could have" Giacomo?
--- snap ---


I remember that too, but I don't remember who was the source for this. It could be just another internet rumour. I remember to have read it, but I don't remember where the information came from.



Yes, it's true. Both Amanda and Meredith liked Giacomo. When Meredith started seeing him, Amanda told her she could have him.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

MARESCA: GOL. !!!!!!! He's getting to the crux.

Maresca is masterful. Amanda's lawyer asleep :)

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
--- snip ---
Didn't Amanda tell Meredith at some point that Meredith "could have" Giacomo?
--- snap ---


I remember that too, but I don't remember who was the source for this. It could be just another internet rumour. I remember to have read it, but I don't remember where the information came from.



I think it's from Barbie's book "Angel Face" where she is quoting Meredith's friends. (p.19 in the book, you can find it online)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox Appears Scared, Called 'Liar' With 'Diabolic' Soul

By PHOEBE NATANSON
PERUGIA, Italy Sept. 26, 2011

"Knox's mother and sister stayed away from today's testimony in protest because they did not want to hear more horrible things said about Amanda Knox. They also did not believe the civil case should be entwined with the murder case.
....
Knox, he [Pacelli] said, is not "the daughter everyone wants." Instead she has a "double soul... on one side angelic," but on the other side "satanic, diabolic." Knox looked down during Pacelli's scathing description of her character, looking very tense.

Outside of the courtroom, Lumumba said, "I ask for justice, not vendetta."

"She is a great actress.... I know her better than most," said Lumumba. "I don't know if she was the assassin, but she lied because she needed time."

ABC
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ava wrote:
Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
--- snip ---
Didn't Amanda tell Meredith at some point that Meredith "could have" Giacomo?
--- snap ---


I remember that too, but I don't remember who was the source for this. It could be just another internet rumour. I remember to have read it, but I don't remember where the information came from.



I think it's from Barbie's book "Angel Face" where she is quoting Meredith's friends. (p.19 in the book, you can find it online)


Thanks Michael and Ava.

Everybody seems to be fascinated by Maresca. He knows how to present the information and how to bring it across.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

guermantes wrote:
--- snip ---
"Knox's mother and sister stayed away from today's testimony in protest because they did not want to hear more horrible things said about Amanda Knox.
--- snap ---


Hilarious. They don't understand a word of Italian and cannot follow a decent conversation, let alone a court hearing. So if you ask me, they could have attended the hearing to support Amanda. Probably on a shopping spree.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
EX-FBI Steve Moore's wife 2 Mignini 'You are evil'He says 'unacceptable and certain ppl shld not be allowed in court' #amandaknox #sideshow
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
EX-FBI Steve Moore's wife 2 Mignini 'You are evil'He says 'unacceptable and certain ppl shld not be allowed in court' #amandaknox #sideshow

_________________
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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
For 3 years we've been kicked out of crtroom when #meredithkercher bloody corpse is shown. Why did we get to stay today?#amandaknox
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
EX-FBI Steve Moore's wife 2 Mignini 'You are evil'He says 'unacceptable and certain ppl shld not be allowed in court' #amandaknox #sideshow


Can anyone believe that? This woman has some mental problems.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Dan Abrams Warns That Amanda Knox May Not Go Free (video)

by Zara Golden | 10:04 am, September 26th, 2011

MEDIAITE

Attachment:
Dan Abrams.png


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BBCDanielS
Kercher lawyer says #amandaknox DID know Rudy Guede who has also been convicted of Meredith's murder.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
EX-FBI Steve Moore's wife 2 Mignini 'You are evil'He says 'unacceptable and certain ppl shld not be allowed in court' #amandaknox #sideshow


Can anyone believe that? This woman has some mental problems.



She's fucking nuts!!!

Someone needs to remove her. Hopefully Mignini will lock the bimbo up...for criminal stupidity!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I'll tell you what, that's all we need...FOAKers actually in the court room turning it into a circus.

The Moore clowns should be kicked out.

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Lumumba lawyer insists police did not bring up his name first, it was #amandaknox who put him in the frame - quite unfairly it turned out.

mchancecnn Matthew Chance
#AmandaKnox drank beer... Smoked cannabis.... Loved extreme experiences! Guilty, as my BBC colleague just pointed out, of being a student


Why are journalists sitting around saying that getting drunk, getting stoned and loving extreme experiences is normal for students in post-secondary institutions? I have to wonder if they're been watching too many hollywood movies and now believe that university is all about "going nuts" for a few years. It is true that a few off balanced students that have never been away from home or who have never had any independence do go University to live life wrecklessly on their parent's dime without having to answer to anyone. I was more aware of them in my first year of University than later years, but the fact is that those students rarely made it past first year. Their GPAs suffered and most of them were required to take at least a year off to straighten out. Many never returned to complete degrees. There is a majority of students that go to University to study, get a degree and leave all the high school party fun behind.

Perhaps my perspective is skewed or something, but when I first went to University I was not a party animal. I had goals and was focused on achieving them. Today's students, for the most part, also appear to be goal oriented. Students that party hard miss class, and I can say for a fact that missing class almost always moves students into a position where the highest grade they get is B, and it's usually much lower. The party crowd appears to be about 15-20 % of the student population in their first year of study. The question I have is why journalists would take the fact that some students party like lunatics and generalize to say that this defines post-secondary students? The only answer I can come up with is that the journalists are trying to neutralize Knox's erratic, irresponsible behavior leading up to the murder.

Actually, based on the few tweets we've had, I do think the Judge is leaning towards acquittal. In looking at the panel in one or two video clips, I got the impression the two on the far left were for guilt, the two on the far right were going to follow the Judge's lead and no impression of the others. I could see a 50/50 split with the Judge tipping the decision in favour of acquittal. I think the Judge has been a bit bamboozled by Knox fluttering her eyelashes at him, but we'll see. I do not think the evidence supports an acquittal.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca backtracks and asks to be pardoned for showing #meredithkercher photos to press/public. .. #amandaknox
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Couple interesting quips from this article

http://abcnews.go.com/International/ama ... 941&page=2

1) Patrick says Amanda is a great actress and he knows her better than most

2) His lawyer says
Knox, he said, is not "the daughter everyone wants." Instead she has a "double soul... on one side angelic," but on the other side "satanic, diabolic."
Knox looked down during Pacelli's scathing description of her character, looking very tense.

3) Deanna says:
her family is acknowledged on the streets with either looks of sympathy or disgust.
"I have had someone spit on me," Deanna Knox told GMA.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Maresca starts breaking down the "false alibis" of #amandaknox #meredithkercher

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jester wrote:
Michael wrote:
BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Lumumba lawyer insists police did not bring up his name first, it was #amandaknox who put him in the frame - quite unfairly it turned out.

mchancecnn Matthew Chance
#AmandaKnox drank beer... Smoked cannabis.... Loved extreme experiences! Guilty, as my BBC colleague just pointed out, of being a student


Why are journalists sitting around saying that getting drunk, getting stoned and loving extreme experiences is normal for students in post-secondary institutions? I have to wonder if they're been watching too many hollywood movies and now believe that university is all about "going nuts" for a few years. It is true that a few off balanced students that have never been away from home or who have never had any independence do go University to live life wrecklessly on their parent's dime without having to answer to anyone. I was more aware of them in my first year of University than later years, but the fact is that those students rarely made it past first year. Their GPAs suffered and most of them were required to take at least a year off to straighten out. Many never returned to complete degrees. There is a majority of students that go to University to study, get a degree and leave all the high school party fun behind.

Perhaps my perspective is skewed or something, but when I first went to University I was not a party animal. I had goals and was focused on achieving them. Today's students, for the most part, also appear to be goal oriented. Students that party hard miss class, and I can say for a fact that missing class almost always moves students into a position where the highest grade they get is B, and it's usually much lower. The party crowd appears to be about 15-20 % of the student population in their first year of study. The question I have is why journalists would take the fact that some students party like lunatics and generalize to say that this defines post-secondary students? The only answer I can come up with is that the journalists are trying to neutralize Knox's erratic, irresponsible behavior leading up to the murder.

Actually, based on the few tweets we've had, I do think the Judge is leaning towards acquittal. In looking at the panel in one or two video clips, I got the impression the two on the far left were for guilt, the two on the far right were going to follow the Judge's lead and no impression of the others. I could see a 50/50 split with the Judge tipping the decision in favour of acquittal. I think the Judge has been a bit bamboozled by Knox fluttering her eyelashes at him, but we'll see. I do not think the evidence supports an acquittal.


I agree with the first part of your post. The students I knew studied and worked and had often lots of trouble to get enough hours sleep to be able to study, but because they had to work, not because they were partying. Money was spent on expensive books that you wanted to have at home to study and not borrowing them from the library, because it was inconvenient.

Regarding Hellmann, I think he is difficult to read. Massei made comments like "It must have been a very sleepless night to say the least" when talking about the phones turned on early in the morning when they were both supposed to be asleep. He reminded Amanda of her phone call to her mother and that it was a fact she did make that phone call and that this wasn't something she could deny. All this already indicated that they didn't believe her and didn't buy into her lies.

Hellmann didn't do any of that. In my opinion it doesn't mean he leans towards acquittal.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Quote:
BBCDanielS
So Lumumba lawyer says #amandaknox is guilty. She was into sex, drugs, beer and extreme experiences. And ruined him as a father and husband


Now this is outrageous:

Quote:
BLNadeau
Pacelli:noone knew #meredithkercher had been raped so how could #amandaknox? Well.. She was found half naked.. Logical supposition


Now we have Nadeau making excuses for Knox. How did Knox know that Meredith was half naked when her body was covered by a duvet? Let's hear the answer to that one from Nadeau.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

These Foakers are an embarassment. They don't help la_) at all. Ms. Moore has no decorum, no idea how to behave. Talk about a loose cannon. ss)

Perhaps she just wanted to wake up Amanda's lawyer ? an-)) ar-))

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
Quote:
BBCDanielS
So Lumumba lawyer says #amandaknox is guilty. She was into sex, drugs, beer and extreme experiences. And ruined him as a father and husband


Now this is outrageous:

Quote:
BLNadeau
Pacelli:noone knew #meredithkercher had been raped so how could #amandaknox? Well.. She was found half naked.. Logical supposition


Now we have Nadeau making excuses for Knox. How did Knox know that Meredith was half naked when her body was covered by a duvet? Let's hear the answer to that one from Nadeau.


My thoughts exactly. Amanda wasn't near Meredith's bedroom when the door was kicked down. She couldn't have known unless she is the one who covered her with the duvet and for that reason knew fully well what was under it.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca says the record of use of #sollecito computer and #amandaknox own story contradict their united alibi that they were at Sollecito's.


Quote:
mchancecnn
#AmandaKnox mum slams "satanic, demonic, she-devil" slurs against her daughter as "insults use in absence of evidence"
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Maresca says the record of use of #sollecito computer and #amandaknox own story contradict their united alibi that they were at Sollecito's.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Court resumes

Quote:
andreavogt
It is noon & Pacelli only half way through. Hope we must not sit through yet more irrelevant character judgments of #amandaknox.


It seems that a couple of journalists are eager to separate Knox and the evidence from behavioral science. They want to view this murder in isolation, as though nothing that happened before or after the murder has any relevance to the murder. I guess this is where journalists and lawyers part ways.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
These Foakers are an embarassment. They don't help la_) at all. Ms. Moore has no decorum, no idea how to behave. Talk about a loose cannon. ss)

Perhaps she just wanted to wake up Amanda's lawyer ? an-)) ar-))


Inserting themselves into this case has given them spotlight and publicity that without Amanda Knox they could have never achieved. They are full of themselves and love the attention. If I were Curt Knox or Edda Mellas, I wouldn't want them near me.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
mchancecnn
"I am disgusted photos of #meredithkercher body were again shown to court" #AmandaKnox mum, Edda Mellas


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca says there was no "human interaction" with #sollecito computer the night they said they were watching Amelie. #amandaknox
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

mchancecnn Matthew Chance
"I am disgusted photos of #meredithkercher body were again shown to court" #AmandaKnox mum, Edda Mellas


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Maresca says there was no "human interaction" with #sollecito computer the night they said they were watching Amelie. #amandaknox

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
@mchancecnn It's a murder trial, what should they show instead?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

As if Edda ever gave a toss about Meredith. She's only using it to criticise Maresca and because she knows those photos reveal Knox to be the vicious murder that she is.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jester wrote:
Actually, based on the few tweets we've had, I do think the Judge is leaning towards acquittal. In looking at the panel in one or two video clips, I got the impression the two on the far left were for guilt, the two on the far right were going to follow the Judge's lead and no impression of the others. I could see a 50/50 split with the Judge tipping the decision in favour of acquittal. I think the Judge has been a bit bamboozled by Knox fluttering her eyelashes at him, but we'll see. I do not think the evidence supports an acquittal.

*Snipped*. I think it is impossible Jester. The judge needs to explain his decision and how is he going to do that with the luminol footprints, the bathmat print that is definitely not RG, the staging, and the witnesses? There is no way around the multiple attackers. He could say that the evidence is not strong enough to convict but at the same time he has to admit that there are multiple attackers. That would be extremely weak and difficult to reason. Is not going to happen. The only thing that is on the table is the length of the verdict IMO.


Last edited by max on Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Maresca says scientific police were not careless in colleciton of #amandaknox crime scene evidence. Now on to contentious mixed blood/dna.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
As if Edda ever gave a toss about Meredith. She's only using it to criticise Maresca and because she knows those photos reveal Knox to be the vicious murder that she is.


I am also wondering about her word choice "disgusted". Reminds me of Amanda's "yuck" and "bleargh" in court describing how Meredith died (no wait, how she imagined she could have died!). Well, Edda. This is the sort of devastation your daughter has left behind. Get a grip! This is not about you.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Actually, Mrs. Michelle Moore ( Steve's wife) rants in Court, are not such a bad thing. It shows the Court just how unhinged many of Amanda's supporters are.

Pepperdine must now be thinking, that whatever monies they paid to Stevie, was SO worth the price. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Maresca says #amandaknox didn't leave blood in #meredithkercher room, she took out with her and left a spot in room where brkin was staged.


andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Maresca: all these mixed genetic traces of #amandaknox and meredith in same spots are a coincidence? Improbable, he said.


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Maresca not saying mixed blood, but mixed profiles .. very contentious topic. #amandaknox

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Love, LOVE Maresca!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

max wrote:
--- snip ---
The only thing that is on the table is the length of the verdict IMO.
--- snap ---


Nothing but a guilty verdict should be possible. But then I am reminded of the "independent" experts and how this must have happened. I believe they must have been contacted by the defense teams one way or another. The evidence doesn't support an acquittal. I am only afraid of what these families are able to pull off behind the scenes.

Who would have predicted 4 years ago that all networks would solely report what a family of simpletons approves of? Not me.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Maresca: whoever killed #meredithkercher locked the door and threw away the key in #amandaknox appeal.




BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Maresca: the house was partially cleaned, not fully cleaned. Says he is nearly done, not sure if Serena Perna will also speak.

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Maresca drawing attention to #amandaknox email to friends and family Nov. 4. Discussing behavior of the two immediately after murder.


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Maresca done, now Serena Perna, his co-lawyer. #amandaknox

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Attorney Serena Perna discussing medical examiner's findings in detail in #amandaknox trial. Time and cause of death.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Quote:
BLNadeau
Judge asks if Maresca wants to take a break, he says no need. Why don't they ask us? #amandaknox


Quote:
mchancecnn
Is it right for hurt civil parties to be heard in murder appeal case? #AmandaKnox #meredithkercher


What an odd remark from Nadeau ... if she wants to take a break, she should get up and take one. There is no obligation for her to be there and furthermore, the trial is not about the journalists.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Perna says there are elements that were never completely clarified: the cause and time of death. #amandaknox

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox Appears Scared, Called 'Liar' With 'Diabolic' Soul

By PHOEBE NATANSON
PERUGIA, Italy Sept. 26, 2011

"Knox's mother and sister stayed away from today's testimony in protest because they did not want to hear more horrible things said about Amanda Knox. They also did not believe the civil case should be entwined with the murder case.
....
Knox, he [Pacelli] said, is not "the daughter everyone wants." Instead she has a "double soul... on one side angelic," but on the other side "satanic, diabolic." Knox looked down during Pacelli's scathing description of her character, looking very tense.

Outside of the courtroom, Lumumba said, "I ask for justice, not vendetta."

"She is a great actress.... I know her better than most," said Lumumba. "I don't know if she was the assassin, but she lied because she needed time."

ABC


I suspect that Edda and Deanna just wanted a shopping day. Clearly they're not interested in the facts if they can't even be bothered to sit in the courtroom ... and what about their darling Knox, does she not need their support more than ever on a day like today?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
--- snip ---
"Knox's mother and sister stayed away from today's testimony in protest because they did not want to hear more horrible things said about Amanda Knox.
--- snap ---


Hilarious. They don't understand a word of Italian and cannot follow a decent conversation, let alone a court hearing. So if you ask me, they could have attended the hearing to support Amanda. Probably on a shopping spree.


Great minds think alike!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Perna says consultants disagree on time of death and it is not known with certainly, tells jury they don't know for sure. #amandaknox


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Perna says talk of watching movies and using computer irrelevant because time of death not known. #amandaknox

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/dan-abrams-w ... t-go-free/
Amanda Knox May Not Go Free

"There are other possibilities. There may be other evidence next to the DNA. What do they have?"

Haha...somehow this guy made me laugh so hard...lol...
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Perna saying whatever happened in #meredithkercher room that night, more than one person killed her. #amandaknox


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Perna: cuts on palm of #meredithkercher hand were made by point of knife as a threat, not defense wounds which would be deeper. #amandaknox

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Perna says consultants disagree on time of death and it is not known with certainly, tells jury they don't know for sure. #amandaknox


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Perna says talk of watching movies and using computer irrelevant because time of death not known. #amandaknox

I like this. Comodi already hinted to the judges that TOD might be a bit earlier. She said Meredith's phone was in the hands of the attackers when it called the bank. I hope the judges will listen. It wipes out several of the appeal arguments at once.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -court Monday   

Tiziano wrote:
Nell wrote:
Quote:
BBCDanielS
So Lumumba lawyer says #amandaknox is guilty. She was into sex, drugs, beer and extreme experiences. And ruined him as a father and husband


Now this is outrageous:

Quote:
BLNadeau
Pacelli:noone knew #meredithkercher had been raped so how could #amandaknox? Well.. She was found half naked.. Logical supposition


Not only outrageous, but stupid. Not being fully-dressed is hardly a prima facie evidence of rape.
What has happened to BLN? She really is the pits.



Barbie has been threatened, obviously, or it seems obvious to me, by the FOA and family, that they will sue her for things she wrote, I think this may be why she is writing stuff that to me make her seem thick.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Perna trying to establish ambiance of murder, that #meredithkercher was restrained when murdered or there wld b defense wounds. #amandaknox

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca backtracks and asks to be pardoned for showing #meredithkercher photos to press/public. .. #amandaknox


I see this as a double-edged sword. When the press has seen the injuries, it allows them to better understand the viciousness of the attack - hopefully it will clear up some of the journalistic ignorance. Conversely, it violates Meredith's privacy. I doubt he did this without the family's approval, therefore I think it was more important to shock the senses of the journalists that pretend this was little more than post-secondary students using drugs, getting drunk and looking for extreme experiences.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Serene Perna sounds like a smart woman. Haven't heard much of her yet, but here she is (with Maresca of course):
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

She is smart...she's reminding the judges that they have a wide window within which to place the TOD and so need not be bound by prosecution's or Massei's times.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

max wrote:
Jester wrote:
Actually, based on the few tweets we've had, I do think the Judge is leaning towards acquittal. In looking at the panel in one or two video clips, I got the impression the two on the far left were for guilt, the two on the far right were going to follow the Judge's lead and no impression of the others. I could see a 50/50 split with the Judge tipping the decision in favour of acquittal. I think the Judge has been a bit bamboozled by Knox fluttering her eyelashes at him, but we'll see. I do not think the evidence supports an acquittal.

*Snipped*. I think it is impossible Jester. The judge needs to explain his decision and how is he going to do that with the luminol footprints, the bathmat print that is definitely not RG, the staging, and the witnesses? There is no way around the multiple attackers. He could say that the evidence is not strong enough to convict but at the same time he has to admit that there are multiple attackers. That would be extremely weak and difficult to reason. Is not going to happen. The only thing that is on the table is the length of the verdict IMO.


I hope so, but it's also possible that he will begin to deconstruct the evidence starting with the DNA.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

SomeAlibiLies BillyBob @
@BLNadeau Because of course we all know exactly what Meredith would have done when confronted with Rudy with a knife. Madness. #amandaknox


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau @
@SomeAlibiLies I'm providing a play-by-play, not analysis. Will do the same for defense arguments. You can unfollow me if this bothers you.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
SomeAlibiLies BillyBob @
@BLNadeau Because of course we all know exactly what Meredith would have done when confronted with Rudy with a knife. Madness. #amandaknox


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau @
@SomeAlibiLies I'm providing a play-by-play, not analysis. Will do the same for defense arguments. You can unfollow me if this bothers you.


She's a bit defensive! Play by play? ... not analysis? ... so what's with the commentary about drugs, alcohol and extreme experience being the norm for post-secondary students, and what's with Knox supposedly knowing that Meredith was sexually assaulted too soon when she was covered with a duvet?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Perna asks to confirm the convictions, she's done #amandaknox Maresca back up


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Maresca reiterating the request for damages from those who are ultimately found responsible for #meredithkercher murder. #amandaknox


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Maresca now telling the "joy of #meredithkercher life" #amandaknox

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

EXACTLY, Jester. Barbie has been slanting her tweets the whole time. Hence my comments from earlier .

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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
She is smart...she's reminding the judges that they have a wide window within which to place the TOD and so need not be bound by prosecution's or Massei's times.


Absolutely
The Groupies immediately began long and loud whining and wailing when Atty Perna said:

"Perna says talk of watching movies and using computer irrelevant because time of death not known"
____________________________

JEEZ
Looney's incessantly game changing TOD that he mentions several times every day, and uses Google and a Doggie Doctor and a vertical gardener as references....Gets that short shot...not known....

WOW

Even a fellow groupie said about that tweet:
I can't believe my eyes

I can't believe my eyes

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Lawyer for falsely accused barman brands Amanda Knox a 'she-devil' in court
5:03PM BST 26 Sep 2011
The Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... court.html

Video with Pacelli (Patrick's lawyer) speaking in court and short interview with Maresca.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
quotes Newton: Truth is ever to be found in simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things. .. Done for the day


andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Maresca closes #amandaknox appeal args citing Isaac Newton "Truth is ever to be found in simplicity, and not in the confusion"

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Do tweets from this dick really need to be posted here to aid him in his jumping on the bandwagon game?

mchancecnn

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Thanks for all the updates Michael.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ava wrote:



Just catching up...thanks for posting that article, zorba. It's very touching, and very sad that both of Meredith's parents suffer from ill health now.


Hi Ava, you're welcome, that article is one of the few decent ones. Doesn't it make a person feel helpless seeing the Kercher family in their grief that way.

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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Thanks for all the updates Michael.


Me Too, Michael
Great job for all of us
Thank You
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Are there any updates regarding the schedule? What's next? Raffaele Sollecito on the 29th. Is the 30th for Amanda's closing arguments?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Thanks for all the updates Michael.



You too Nell.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Are there any updates regarding the schedule? What's next? Raffaele Sollecito on the 29th. Is the 30th for Amanda's closing arguments?



Tomorrow is Raffaele and Thursday is Amanda I think.

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
EXACTLY, Jester. Barbie has been slanting her tweets the whole time. Hence my comments from earlier .


She comes across as giving the play by play and then injecting some sort of ridicule.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I like this:

""Who is Amanda Knox?" he asked. "She is charming, intelligent, cunning and astute. She seems simple, sweet, with the face of a naive doll... but it is the mask of a phoney," the fiery lawyer said." ~ Pacelli

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-wo ... 1ktjm.html
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
Are there any updates regarding the schedule? What's next? Raffaele Sollecito on the 29th. Is the 30th for Amanda's closing arguments?



Tomorrow is Raffaele and Thursday is Amanda I think.


Oh sorry. That's why I was confused. Wrong timezone. I am already in Tuesday, you have to wait until tomorrow!

Maresca was great in my opinion. Concise and easy to follow. Nobody falls asleep when he speaks. He captures the audience.

See you all tomorrow, or shall I say later?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jester wrote:
I like this:

""Who is Amanda Knox?" he asked. "She is charming, intelligent, cunning and astute. She seems simple, sweet, with the face of a naive doll... but it is the mask of a phoney," the fiery lawyer said." ~ Pacelli

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-wo ... 1ktjm.html



I really liked the part when he said that this is not a woman you want to have as a daughter.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
quotes Newton: Truth is ever to be found in simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things. .. Done for the day


andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Maresca closes #amandaknox appeal args citing Isaac Newton "Truth is ever to be found in simplicity, and not in the confusion"


I'm VERY impressed with the thoroughness of the prosecution's / the Kercher family lawyers' presentation and their erudition - quoting Beaumarchais/Rossini, Voltaire, Bacon ... now Newton.

I'm so curious what 'ridiculousness' the defence will come up with. :) Amélie of Seattle, again?
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
I like this:

""Who is Amanda Knox?" he asked. "She is charming, intelligent, cunning and astute. She seems simple, sweet, with the face of a naive doll... but it is the mask of a phoney," the fiery lawyer said." ~ Pacelli

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-wo ... 1ktjm.html



I really liked the part when he said that this is not a woman you want to have as a daughter.


Not just as a daughter! I thought about this some time ago and wondered: Would I want this woman anywhere near my children? The answer is a resounding NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo. I would not trust her anywhere near me, my home, or my family. I believe that Knox would get under people's skin and encourage them to do what she wanted, to distrust their instincts and blindly follow her lead to where ever Knox's twisted thoughts went.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Interesting tweet from Daniel Sandford reporting for BBC

Quote:
BBCDanielS
Dear all #amandaknox supporters please don't shoot messenger. I've only recounted the day when the murder victim's family had their say
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Post-court Maresca calls gossip mag gente's cover story #amandaknox secrets & mom's nightmare "excessive." But he showed corpse to world.


BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Dear all #amandaknox supporters please don't shoot messenger. I've only recounted the day when the murder victim's family had their say

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

guermantes wrote:
Michael wrote:
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
quotes Newton: Truth is ever to be found in simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things. .. Done for the day


andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Maresca closes #amandaknox appeal args citing Isaac Newton "Truth is ever to be found in simplicity, and not in the confusion"


I'm VERY impressed with the thoroughness of the prosecution's / the Kercher family lawyers' presentation and their erudition - quoting Beaumarchais/Rossini, Voltaire, Bacon ... now Newton.

I'm so curious what 'ridiculousness' the defence will come up with. :) Amélie of Seattle, again?


It's interesting to see a couple of journalists question whether Knox really will get out of jail. They bought into the propaganda strategy mentioned by Francis Bacon and used by Goebbels: that if it is repeated enough, some of it will stick, but now that the ugly truth is coming out, they are taking another look at the possible outcomes.

I think it was an excellent move by Maresca to expose the journalists to the crime photos, forcing them to question how Meredith could have so many injuries and so few defensive wounds.

I was also thinking about the "surprise" that we may have missed. One thing that comes to mind is the DNA and the comment that the Y haplotype that was found on the bra clasp was in fact quite rare, and that Sollecito possesses that rare Y haplotype. I didn't know that before, but perhaps I missed it. I knew that it was a match, but not that it was extremely rare.

I think the defence will go on about the time of death, as though it is something that can be fixed, and the DNA, as though the possibility of contamination - even though it cannot be logically demonstrated - is a viable theory. The Amelie defence was used to explain Knox's lies and nonsense, but that is no longer in the forefront, so they can ignore it an hope it isn't given any consideration. I suspect we'll hear a diatribe about how the lovebirds were cozied up in Sollecito's apartment until at least 9:30 and that the mushroom proves that Meredith was murdered at 9 PM - or some other silly story about stomach contents and time of death.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
Are there any updates regarding the schedule? What's next? Raffaele Sollecito on the 29th. Is the 30th for Amanda's closing arguments?



Tomorrow is Raffaele and Thursday is Amanda I think.


Oh sorry. That's why I was confused. Wrong timezone. I am already in Tuesday, you have to wait until tomorrow!

Maresca was great in my opinion. Concise and easy to follow. Nobody falls asleep when he speaks. He captures the audience.

See you all tomorrow, or shall I say later?



Ah, yes, that would explain it.


The prosecution, Maresca and Perna have done really well in my view.

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Does anyone know the extent of Meredith's defensive wounds? Was there one cut on her hands, five? Anyone recall?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jester wrote:
Does anyone know the extent of Meredith's defensive wounds? Was there one cut on her hands, five? Anyone recall?


From the Massei report, three tiny puncture wounds. That's why they call it the "almost non-existent" defense wounds.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Found it:

Quote:
From the Massei report:

The signs of this resistance, however, consist in a scream, the scream heard by Nara Capezzali at around 23:30 and by Maria Ilaria Dramis when, having gone to bed at 22:00 pm, she awoke at a later time which she was not able to quantify; they consist also in some tiny defensive wounds: one on the palm of her [396] right hand of a length of .6cm showing a tiny amount of blood; another on the ulnar surface of the first phalange of the second finger of the left hand, also of length .6cm; another on the fingertip of the first finger with a superficial wound of .3cm, and another tiny wound corresponding to the fourth radius.

Compared with these almost nonexistent defensive wounds (cf. report of Dr Lalli, pp. 33, 34, 35 with the relevant photos), there is an injured area which is impressive by the number, distribution and diversity, specifically of the injuries (bruises and wounds) on the face and neck of Meredith.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Maybe Knox is and was quite as nuts as all that and did indeed take the knife there not as part of a game of - ''oh please please take part in having fun with me and let me feel like I belong', please come out to play'' - but to threaten Meredith.

Again (once more) she was unable to look at Meredith, not because the photos are awful and she knew Meredith but because she is/was afraid of being confronted with her own work.

Maresca did not show the corpse to the world as Vogt described it, he showed the court and if any person is idiotic or dirty enough to take any photo shown by the lawyer for Meredith out of the courtroom then they themselves are responsible for such an act.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Thanks again for all the updates, pics, links. Nell, Michael, Guermantes. What would we do without you. And, none of you asked for a break, or made it seem like you were doing us a big favour. Like some tweeters, I could name :( And, have, actually :)

Jester, I'm sure your kids are smart. They wouldn't find Amanda special or worth knowing. I know mine wouldn't. Her behaviour was apparant to Meredith's friends from the get go. Didn't take Mez long, either. Raf? Well, we wouldn't want him around either. Or Rudi.

I was just thinking this morning. Madison hadn't known Amanda for that long. Where are all her friends ( who couldn't live without her? None from Seattle? None from Perugia.

And Raf? He'd been in Perugia for quite some time. No friends either.

I think Amanda was in a fury. She hadn't made * The Big Splash * in Perugia, that she fantasised about. Far from it. Not only that, she was rejected by Mez and her friends. Also Patrick.

I believe it was Rudi, who said she was the one, approaching people, with forced determination.

Not popular, by any means. Good for attracting unattractive, middle aged losers. And, a couple of total nutters, like Michelle Moore. Nope. Our kids wouldn't have gone near her, not with a ten foot pole.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

zorba wrote:
--- snip ---
Maybe Knox is and was quite as nuts as all that and did indeed take the knife there not as part of a game of ''oh please please take part in having fun with me and let me feel like I belong', pleae come out to play'', but to threaten Meredith.
--- snap ---


In the Massei report it mentions that Meredith had signs on her neck that showed her attacker had run the blade down her skin. That sounds sadistic and taunting to me.


zorba wrote:
--- snip ---
Again'(once more) she was unable to look at Meredith, not because the photos are awful and she knew Meredith but because she is/was afraid of being confronted with her own work.
--- snap ---


My thoughts exactly!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I found that Vogt used more care with wording than Barbie did; Vogt did not use the term ''character assassination''. Barbie using it/that the way she did, is, in my view, entirely inaccurate and misleading and is simply her inflecting her opinions on what she purports to be straight reporting.

Vogt used character estimation/evaluation or some such word (see above), it has an entirely different flavour to assassination.
And of course the murderer, the convicted murderers... are going to be under attack, after all, what in the world do some people think it is there, a game of darts or a luncheon at the village church hall?


The Tweeters complaining about we hope this and I hope that we do not have to...

well ''have to'' is not a thing that enters into the equation because they are there in the court o'f their own free will, therefore they have to do ''nothing at all''.

Where this is an actual murder case in its closing stages, in this appeal; then it is such a shame for Barbi and Vogt that they are impatient.

Their tables will be booked/reserved; who will they be eating with tonight? Pisa? Perhaps they've ordered the Osso Buco in advance.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

On a different note: Amanda's Letter to Girlanda dated Aug 9, 2011

She writes him a letter, beginning with "Dearest Rocco" ;)

Attachment:
Carissimo Rocco.JPG


"I'm doing fine here in jail. I'm very tired, and that may be either because it's hot here or because I'm worried about the end of my case. I'm always thinking of what I could say in the courtroom or what I could do together with my loved ones once I'm back in Seattle", a passage of Amanda Knox's last letter reads. Knox addressed the letter to the president of the Italy-USA foundation, Rocco Girlanda.

Attachment:
Amanda's Letter to Girlanda, Aug.9, 2011.JPG


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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
Does anyone know the extent of Meredith's defensive wounds? Was there one cut on her hands, five? Anyone recall?


From the Massei report, three tiny puncture wounds. That's why they call it the "almost non-existent" defense wounds.


Thank you. I was just looking at a case that I'm very familiar with where a woman was attacked by a lone assailant. The assailant was a 19 or 20 year old male that did not know the victim. The victim, a 23 year old woman, had 38 injuries with five deep defensive wounds on her hands where she had tried to grab the knife. The knife sliced deep into her hands each time. There was a final blow to the carotid artery and that victim bled to death as well. If Meredith had been free to defend herself, I think that she should have had numerous, deep, defensive wounds.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Does the Prosecution go again, after Amanda's and Raf's attorneys? Is that the rebuttal? Because that may be the time for the surprise.

I'm guessing Amanda and Raf will go last. The * she was my friend *, I was naive, scared, young speech. I am not the way I have been painted, I would never have harmed her. Oh, wait. She already did that.

Perhaps she's been reading the discovery docs, ready to throw in something that she KNOWS will be damning. And, that she can excuse away...like her e-mail.

I'm pretty darn sure, Patrick can expect another * sort of apology *, as that is the elephant in the room.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
Does anyone know the extent of Meredith's defensive wounds? Was there one cut on her hands, five? Anyone recall?


From the Massei report, three tiny puncture wounds. That's why they call it the "almost non-existent" defense wounds.


Thank you. I was just looking at a case that I'm very familiar with where a woman was attacked by a lone assailant. The assailant was a 19 or 20 year old male that did not know the victim. The victim, a 23 year old woman, had 38 injuries with five deep defensive wounds on her hands where she had tried to grab the knife. The knife sliced deep into her hands each time. There was a final blow to the carotid artery and that victim bled to death as well. If Meredith had been free to defend herself, I think that she should have had numerous, deep, defensive wounds.



I bet Knox got a nasty shock when Meredith turned out to be far stronger than Knox ever expected and at that point it drove Knox Nuts, that being the point where Knox went for or fetched that knife. Then they held Meredith down, Sollecito did, and somehow Guede did too.

I also have a strong feeling that Meredith initially shocked Amanda Knox by reacting to Amanda's physical bullying/aggression by going into a trained reflex and overpowering Knox, perhaps by a hold on her throat and that explains that mark on Knox's neck and it also explains Amanda Knox's pure rage at not getting her own way and the reason she attacked Meredith in such a ''no going back way'', for one might poke and prick at a person attempting to scare and also harm someone but not actually wanting in truth to kill them, for them to have attacked Meredith by going for her neck that way, it can only be either pure rage or a mixture of rage and a will to truly harm at the most extreme level (even if it came about unconsciously and as a reflex).

Looking at Knox's family I can see where she learned to be a bully.


Also, because of what lived inside of Knox, the going for the neck may not necessarily have been something she took long to think about doing, she may have just done it that way as a result of the issues that were going on inside her (reflex).

The issues involve having to be the centre of all attention having to be because of insecurity and lack of true self esteem.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
--- snip ---
Maybe Knox is and was quite as nuts as all that and did indeed take the knife there not as part of a game of ''oh please please take part in having fun with me and let me feel like I belong', pleae come out to play'', but to threaten Meredith.
--- snap ---


In the Massei report it mentions that Meredith had signs on her neck that showed her attacker had run the blade down her skin. That sounds sadistic and taunting to me.


zorba wrote:
--- snip ---
Again'(once more) she was unable to look at Meredith, not because the photos are awful and she knew Meredith but because she is/was afraid of being confronted with her own work.
--- snap ---


My thoughts exactly!



I wonder if Sollecito looked

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Thanks again for all the updates, pics, links. Nell, Michael, Guermantes. What would we do without you. And, none of you asked for a break, or made it seem like you were doing us a big favour. Like some tweeters, I could name :( And, have, actually :)

Jester, I'm sure your kids are smart. They wouldn't find Amanda special or worth knowing. I know mine wouldn't. Her behaviour was apparant to Meredith's friends from the get go. Didn't take Mez long, either. Raf? Well, we wouldn't want him around either. Or Rudi.

I was just thinking this morning. Madison hadn't known Amanda for that long. Where are all her friends ( who couldn't live without her? None from Seattle? None from Perugia.

And Raf? He'd been in Perugia for quite some time. No friends either.

I think Amanda was in a fury. She hadn't made * The Big Splash * in Perugia, that she fantasised about. Far from it. Not only that, she was rejected by Mez and her friends. Also Patrick.

I believe it was Rudi, who said she was the one, approaching people, with forced determination.

Not popular, by any means. Good for attracting unattractive, middle aged losers. And, a couple of total nutters, like Michelle Moore. Nope. Our kids wouldn't have gone near her, not with a ten foot pole.


That seems to be the general picture of Knox. Most of her friends were guys ... why? ... because she played the sex card with them. Women intuitively distrusted her and kept a safe distance - with good cause. Sollecito is an abnormal fringe dweller with his bestiality fetishes. It's not surprising that these two losers honed in on each other from across the room at a music concert.

The honing in thing is interesting. I had that odd experience when I was 21 years old in Amsterdam. I accidentally got off the train at the South stop instead of the Central stop, and then had to wander through the city towards the centre. I finally emerged at the Palace square. I was a bit bewildered as I'd been a little unsure about if I was going in the right direction. I stopped, looked up and there was a guy, about my age, staring at me from across the square. We came together like magnets. We spent the next 5 days together on my uncle's farm in the north and then he had to meet up with his parents. We lost contact. 20 years later, there he was, standing in front of me - quite out of the blue again. He asked me if I knew who he was, and I instantly knew. He said that he had tried to find me for years, but couldn't. He was married with three children and a senior exec with one of the largest oil companies in the country. We started meeting for lunch, but the lunches were becoming longer and longer ... the magnetism was still there ... so we cut them off, both having too much common sense to not see where it was going. Like-minded people do come together like magnets, and what seems to bring them together is some sort of underlying recognition of having a great deal in common ... not the commonness of liking the same foods, but the commonness of thinking alike.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

That this Michelle lunatic has been there in court insulting Dott. Mignini; I hope the court bans her and her crank of a husband.

Truly though, I know he is a ''piece of shit'' but I thought he had enough sense to leave his dear ol' Mrs at home. That he allowed her to come along, shows there is truly something wrong with him too.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jester wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Thanks again for all the updates, pics, links. Nell, Michael, Guermantes. What would we do without you. And, none of you asked for a break, or made it seem like you were doing us a big favour. Like some tweeters, I could name :( And, have, actually :)

Jester, I'm sure your kids are smart. They wouldn't find Amanda special or worth knowing. I know mine wouldn't. Her behaviour was apparant to Meredith's friends from the get go. Didn't take Mez long, either. Raf? Well, we wouldn't want him around either. Or Rudi.

I was just thinking this morning. Madison hadn't known Amanda for that long. Where are all her friends ( who couldn't live without her? None from Seattle? None from Perugia.

And Raf? He'd been in Perugia for quite some time. No friends either.

I think Amanda was in a fury. She hadn't made * The Big Splash * in Perugia, that she fantasised about. Far from it. Not only that, she was rejected by Mez and her friends. Also Patrick.

I believe it was Rudi, who said she was the one, approaching people, with forced determination.

Not popular, by any means. Good for attracting unattractive, middle aged losers. And, a couple of total nutters, like Michelle Moore. Nope. Our kids wouldn't have gone near her, not with a ten foot pole.


That seems to be the general picture of Knox. Most of her friends were guys ... why? ... because she played the sex card with them. Women intuitively distrusted her and kept a safe distance - with good cause. Sollecito is an abnormal fringe dweller with his bestiality fetishes. It's not surprising that these two losers honed in on each other from across the room at a music concert.

The honing in thing is interesting. I had that odd experience when I was 21 years old in Amsterdam. I accidentally got off the train at the South stop instead of the Central stop, and then had to wander through the city towards the centre. I finally emerged at the Palace square. I was a bit bewildered as I'd been a little unsure about if I was going in the right direction. I stopped, looked up and there was a guy, about my age, staring at me from across the square. We came together like magnets. We spent the next 5 days together on my uncle's farm in the north and then he had to meet up with his parents. We lost contact. 20 years later, there he was, standing in front of me - quite out of the blue again. He asked me if I knew who he was, and I instantly knew. He said that he had tried to find me for years, but couldn't. He was married with three children and a senior exec with one of the largest oil companies in the country. We started meeting for lunch, but the lunches were becoming longer and longer ... the magnetism was still there ... so we cut them off, both having too much common sense to not see where it was going. Like-minded people do come together like magnets, and what seems to bring them together is some sort of underlying recognition of having a great deal in common ... not the commonness of liking the same foods, but the commonness of thinking alike.



I had a girlfriend who was always competing and had no real female friends.

It is true, there are more than a few women that are like this.

Reading what Thoughtful was on about on the mirror site, wow, how dumb is she? Where she said women do ''not'' compete

is she kidding or what?

Well, even though women do compete it doesn''t mean that most go on to become successful murderers.

Weird, I had a girlfriend who when breaking up with her and seeing me with another woman later on, said, What with HER????


As though the other wasn't good enough and that it then was some kind of an insult to her

I must say this particular female was not quite all there in the brain.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Sorry that I haven't been keeping up properly

and Max if you did reply to my criticism of you saying that; to use the word Bum is okay, as Barbie is using tweeter, I haven't located it yet so excuse me, I will look back later. I do not intend to ignore anyone. And my apologies if I came across as harsh.

Above I have elucidated on why I found that idea, not unique to you, about that, inaccurate.

Barbie has been using other and more sloppy wordisms hereafter/after that one. Secretly I still have faith in Barbie and do like her very much. I just am worried about her sloppiness. It must be said she has in the past been brave enough where others have failed totally in their chosen career paths, meeting the mark not at all in the slightest and showing that they deserve the badge of a journalist not at all, be that it is so, that they copy one another(s) (inaccurate and incorrect info) and fail to conduct comprehensive research on any matters whatsoever.


Anyhow, I have been working like a mad person at night, today slept all day, mother in London prescribed incorrect medication led to her bowels not functioning and bursting (she almost died as a result of a doctor not asking her if she had any stomach complaints/troubles/problems before or now or ever, in the end when it was discovered she needed an emergency operation, had not eaten in a month, was basically being poisoned from internally, and was laying down and fading away, it's awful so I must round-off stuff here in my adoptive country and go help.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Jester


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Posts: 2500

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Thanks again for all the updates, pics, links. Nell, Michael, Guermantes. What would we do without you. And, none of you asked for a break, or made it seem like you were doing us a big favour. Like some tweeters, I could name :( And, have, actually :)

Jester, I'm sure your kids are smart. They wouldn't find Amanda special or worth knowing. I know mine wouldn't. Her behaviour was apparant to Meredith's friends from the get go. Didn't take Mez long, either. Raf? Well, we wouldn't want him around either. Or Rudi.

I was just thinking this morning. Madison hadn't known Amanda for that long. Where are all her friends ( who couldn't live without her? None from Seattle? None from Perugia.

And Raf? He'd been in Perugia for quite some time. No friends either.

I think Amanda was in a fury. She hadn't made * The Big Splash * in Perugia, that she fantasised about. Far from it. Not only that, she was rejected by Mez and her friends. Also Patrick.

I believe it was Rudi, who said she was the one, approaching people, with forced determination.

Not popular, by any means. Good for attracting unattractive, middle aged losers. And, a couple of total nutters, like Michelle Moore. Nope. Our kids wouldn't have gone near her, not with a ten foot pole.


That seems to be the general picture of Knox. Most of her friends were guys ... why? ... because she played the sex card with them. Women intuitively distrusted her and kept a safe distance - with good cause. Sollecito is an abnormal fringe dweller with his bestiality fetishes. It's not surprising that these two losers honed in on each other from across the room at a music concert.

The honing in thing is interesting. I had that odd experience when I was 21 years old in Amsterdam. I accidentally got off the train at the South stop instead of the Central stop, and then had to wander through the city towards the centre. I finally emerged at the Palace square. I was a bit bewildered as I'd been a little unsure about if I was going in the right direction. I stopped, looked up and there was a guy, about my age, staring at me from across the square. We came together like magnets. We spent the next 5 days together on my uncle's farm in the north and then he had to meet up with his parents. We lost contact. 20 years later, there he was, standing in front of me - quite out of the blue again. He asked me if I knew who he was, and I instantly knew. He said that he had tried to find me for years, but couldn't. He was married with three children and a senior exec with one of the largest oil companies in the country. We started meeting for lunch, but the lunches were becoming longer and longer ... the magnetism was still there ... so we cut them off, both having too much common sense to not see where it was going. Like-minded people do come together like magnets, and what seems to bring them together is some sort of underlying recognition of having a great deal in common ... not the commonness of liking the same foods, but the commonness of thinking alike.



I had a girlfriend who was always competing and had no real female friends.

It is true, there are more than a few women that are like this.

Reading what Thoughtful was on about on the mirror site, wow, how dumb is she? Where she said women do ''not'' compete

is she kidding or what?

Well, even though women do compete it doesn''t mean that most go on to become successful murderers.

Weird, I had a girlfriend who when breaking up with her and seeing me with another woman later on, said, What with HER????


As though the other wasn't good enough and that it then was some kind of an insult to her

I must say this particular female was not quite all there in the brain.


I didn't read the other site ... but suggesting that women do not compete is like saying that rabbits do not breed. I have known women that specifically target married men, not because the men are attractive or interesting, but because the woman believes that if she can seduce the husband, then she is superior to the wife. I have had friends that came onto men I was dating with the result that the guys came to me to ask what's going on - not sure whether I'm in on it, or whether it is blatant betrayal.

Women that compete are sometimes all there, they are just pathetically insecure and they measure their own sense of self-worth (read: attractiveness to men) in terms of whether they can get the guy. Once they have the guy, they cast him aside and look for the next self-esteem challenge - the femme fatale. I had a friend in my late 20s that did that ... after a night in bed, she referred to the guys as "dead puppies" ... the guys were all smitten and distraught; their marriages or relationships on the rocks, but for her it was just a game. Knox's remarks about letting Meredith have the guy downstairs tells me that she has that same insecurity and method of shoring up her self-esteem. Even though she told Meredith that she could have the guy downstairs, I strongly suspect that Knox was looking at ways to interfere or seduce him when Meredith wasn't looking. Clearly, Knox telling Meredith that she could date a particular guy means that Knox believed she was in charge, that she was the more desirable of the two, but she would let Meredith have her discards and left overs. Knox competes with women in a very earnest way. She probably perceives the courtroom events as her competing with Comodi & Stefanoni for the Judge's attention and affections.

I could add that any woman that has never had a woman competing with her may not be someone considered worth competing with, but without having all the informaion, it's not quite the right conclusion to draw. She could simply be naively oblivious - the preferable interpretation.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jester wrote:
guermantes wrote:
I'm VERY impressed with the thoroughness of the prosecution's / the Kercher family lawyers' presentation and their erudition - quoting Beaumarchais/Rossini, Voltaire, Bacon ... now Newton.

I'm so curious what 'ridiculousness' the defence will come up with. :) Amélie of Seattle, again?


I think the defence will go on about the time of death, as though it is something that can be fixed, and the DNA, as though the possibility of contamination - even though it cannot be logically demonstrated - is a viable theory. The Amelie defence was used to explain Knox's lies and nonsense, but that is no longer in the forefront, so they can ignore it an hope it isn't given any consideration. I suspect we'll hear a diatribe about how the lovebirds were cozied up in Sollecito's apartment until at least 9:30 and that the mushroom proves that Meredith was murdered at 9 PM - or some other silly story about stomach contents and time of death.


Hi Jester,

yes I should have said 'what strategy the defence will come up with', instead of 'ridiculousness', but just couldn't resist. I know it's not over yet and it's too early to celebrate, but it was a powerful closing by the prosecution and the victim's family lawyers. They know their stuff.

If I were to venture another prediction, it would be something like this. - Let's imagine for a moment that the lovebirds are acquitted. The prosecution will appeal to the Supreme Court; the higher Court may overturn the acquittals and order a re-trial on some technical (procedural) grounds, and the whole process would have to start all over again! And we may still be here in 3 or 4 years following this case... How do you like this forecast (I'm saying it half-jokingly)? :)

Quote:
Under the Italian judicial system a third and final level of appeal is possible at the Supreme Court in Rome where a panel of judges will sit and examine the documentation from previous trials but hear no witnesses before making a decision.

If it came to this, it would not be heard until next spring at the earliest and if Knox is freed she intends to return immediately to the United States - raising the possibility of an extradition request if she is eventually convicted by the Supreme Court.

Speaking of why they were seeking life sentences for Knox and Sollecito, prosecutor Manuela Comodi said: "From the human point of view it's very unpleasant but professionally it means that we have gone the whole way in the investigation and as a result asked for the maximum sentence that the law allows."

When asked if the DNA report had weakened the prosecution case she said: "I have already said in my summing up that there is much more to this case than the forensics, there is a huge, powerful and unbreakable picture of circumstantial evidence which points against both of them."


(Nick Pisa for THE TELEGRAPH)


Last edited by guermantes on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Earthling


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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:25 pm

Posts: 512

Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Hi Folks,

Well, I don't post much here anymore, switching between the two groups takes just more time than I have. However, since so many of you here took this journey together with all of us, I'd like to post this message here, as well.

So, now the first appeal is winding down. Whatever the outcome, I'd like to say that I feel truly honored to have spent this time with you here.

Your translations, freely given... your analytical and thoughtful posts... your intelligence and kindness... but most importantly, your determination to see justice done for Meredith Kercher and her family. These things have kept me here over the past couple years.

I hope and pray for justice and truth for Meredith Kercher in the upcoming decision of the first court of appeals, as well as the Court of Cassation afterward.

In your honor, here's a movie clip from one of my favorite movies about fighting the good fight, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, which was, appropriately, directed by an Italian-American who believed passionately in America: Francesco (Frank) Capra. As in this movie, all the "James Taylors" (Gogerty Marriotts) in the world cannot spin and distort and hide the truth forever, not where there are people of good will who value liberty and truth, and are willing to fight for it. Like Meredith fought desperately for her life four years ago, although outnumbered by three hopped-up thugs.

Thank you, all.
hugz-)



And, as always, R.I.P. Meredith Susanna Cara Kercher

r-((
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Offline Earthling


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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:25 pm

Posts: 512

Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
They are now reporting that they have found particles from neutrinos traveling faster then the speed of light, at the Large Hadron Colider at CERN. Apparently, it can change all our theories of space/time.

You know what? They shouldn't have bothered. Instead of building that thing, they could have saved themselves billions and sent their physicists to Italy. There, space/time is utterly different to the rest of the known universe. 10 minutes is half an hour...half an hour is an hour.

Actually, didn't those neutrinos travel to Italy? So maybe that's the reason... LOL....
Yep, here it is:

"The scientists sent a beam of neutrinos from CERN, on the Swiss-French border near Geneva, to the INFN (Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare) Gran Sasso Laboratory in central Italy, 730 kilometers (454 miles) away, in a research project called OPERA. The physicists had planned to study a rare event, the transformation of the muon variety of neutrinos into the tau variety. Instead, they found the extraordinary result that the neutrinos appeared to travel faster than the speed of light."

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20110 ... z1Z5oyLhMv
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Offline Michael

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Location: England

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Earthling wrote:
Well, I don't post much here anymore, switching between the two groups takes just more time than I have. However, since so many of you here took this journey together with all of us, I'd like to post this message here, as well.

So, now the first appeal is winding down. Whatever the outcome, I'd like to say that I feel truly honored to have spent this time with you here.

Your translations, freely given... your analytical and thoughtful posts... your intelligence and kindness... but most importantly, your determination to see justice done for Meredith Kercher and her family. These things have kept me here over the past couple years.

I hope and pray for justice and truth for Meredith Kercher in the upcoming decision of the first court of appeals, as well as the Court of Cassation afterward.

In your honor, here's a movie clip from one of my favorite movies about fighting the good fight, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, which was, appropriately, directed by an Italian-American who believed passionately in America: Francesco (Frank) Capra. As in this movie, all the "James Taylors" (Gogerty Marriotts) in the world cannot spin and distort and hide the truth forever, not where there are people of good will who value liberty and truth, and are willing to fight for it. Like Meredith fought desperately for her life four years ago, although outnumbered by three hopped-up thugs.

Thank you, all.



Hey Earthling, great to see you :)

Like you, I hope Meredith and her family get the justice she deserves.

It's certainly been an honour for me, to work on this case with everyone here too. It's the people here that have allowed me to keep my faith in humanity...no small feat when facing the FOAKers.

Thanks for the neutrinos :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox's Grueling Day: Called 'She Devil,' Shown Roommate's Wounds

By PHOEBE NATANSON and NIKKI BATTISTE
PERUGIA, Italy Sept. 26, 2011


ABC NEWS


(2 pages)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox's Innocence Is No Technicality
by S. Michael Scadron September 26, 2011


GROUND REPORT

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Earthling


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Earthling wrote:
Well, I don't post much here anymore, switching between the two groups takes just more time than I have. However, since so many of you here took this journey together with all of us, I'd like to post this message here, as well.

So, now the first appeal is winding down. Whatever the outcome, I'd like to say that I feel truly honored to have spent this time with you here.

Your translations, freely given... your analytical and thoughtful posts... your intelligence and kindness... but most importantly, your determination to see justice done for Meredith Kercher and her family. These things have kept me here over the past couple years.

I hope and pray for justice and truth for Meredith Kercher in the upcoming decision of the first court of appeals, as well as the Court of Cassation afterward.

In your honor, here's a movie clip from one of my favorite movies about fighting the good fight, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, which was, appropriately, directed by an Italian-American who believed passionately in America: Francesco (Frank) Capra. As in this movie, all the "James Taylors" (Gogerty Marriotts) in the world cannot spin and distort and hide the truth forever, not where there are people of good will who value liberty and truth, and are willing to fight for it. Like Meredith fought desperately for her life four years ago, although outnumbered by three hopped-up thugs.

Thank you, all.



Hey Earthling, great to see you :)

Like you, I hope Meredith and her family get the justice she deserves.

It's certainly been an honour for me, to work on this case with everyone here too. It's the people here that have allowed me to keep my faith in humanity...no small feat when facing the FOAKers.


So true.

Great to be here, too, Michael. We are ALL united in working toward justice for Meredith. That will never change, no matter what this particular court determines. I pray a verdict next week consistent with the facts and evidence showing Knox is guilty of participation in the killing.

Michael wrote:
Thanks for the neutrinos :)


A fascinating story. We once named a cat "Neutrino" because he dashed around the apartment so fast we could hardly keep up. :)
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Offline Ergon

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Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Earthling wrote:
Hi Folks,

Well, I don't post much here anymore, switching between the two groups takes just more time than I have. However, since so many of you here took this journey together with all of us, I'd like to post this message here, as well.

So, now the first appeal is winding down. Whatever the outcome, I'd like to say that I feel truly honored to have spent this time with you here.

Your translations, freely given... your analytical and thoughtful posts... your intelligence and kindness... but most importantly, your determination to see justice done for Meredith Kercher and her family. These things have kept me here over the past couple years.

I hope and pray for justice and truth for Meredith Kercher in the upcoming decision of the first court of appeals, as well as the Court of Cassation afterward.

In your honor, here's a movie clip from one of my favorite movies about fighting the good fight, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, which was, appropriately, directed by an Italian-American who believed passionately in America: Francesco (Frank) Capra. As in this movie, all the "James Taylors" (Gogerty Marriotts) in the world cannot spin and distort and hide the truth forever, not where there are people of good will who value liberty and truth, and are willing to fight for it. Like Meredith fought desperately for her life four years ago, although outnumbered by three hopped-up thugs.

Thank you, all.
hugz-)

(VIDEO)

And, as always, R.I.P. Meredith Susanna Cara Kercher

r-((


I will second Earthling's beautiful comment. I may not be able to post as often as I might like, but want to thank all of you who fight the good fight and welcomed me here.

However it all ends at this and the final appeal I hope we will all come away with a greater understanding of the role PR agencies like Gogerty Marriott play in trying to manipulate public opinion.

Like all of you I care for justice for Meredith Kercher. I also trust the fine work of the Italian judicial system. Justice will be served.

But, as a keen observer of the media for many decades now I see how it is a tool of propaganda. I see corporations and PR agencies produce fake front agencies to greenwash their environmental record, to whip up support for obscene war, and to promote corrupt politicians.

This trial will come to an end soon. One hopes we will all have learned something from it.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ummm....Steve Moore has a really bizarre blog going on...he's as mad and weird as his bimbo wife...check it out:

gmancasefile

http://gmancasefile.blogspot.com/

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Jester


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Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:24 pm

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Ummm....Steve Moore has a really bizarre blog going on...he's as mad and weird as his bimbo wife...check it out:

gmancasefile

http://gmancasefile.blogspot.com/


They both appear to be completely off the deep end. I wonder what is happening with their children while Steve and Michelle are acting out in foreign country courtrooms and ranting on the internet. I do wonder if Steve was retired for medical reasons from his last, last job. We know he was let go from his last job because he was acting nuts about Knox, but perhaps his problems started much earlier.

I suspect more security will be needed in the courtroom if spectators are openly accosting officers of the court, especially spectators that are really into guns.
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Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

Posts: 1564

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Pro Knox logic. Lack of defensive wounds, and 40+ wounds on Meredith does not mean multiple attackers, but oh boy if Amanda had been in the room then she would have left her DNA all over in such a struggle. Whatever.


Last edited by max on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline max


Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Today we will hear the opposite of yesterday I suppose. Bongiorno will glorify the C&V report. I wonder if she will go into the TOD based on stomach contents. Imagine all those discussions on the internet and she doesn't even mention it? ;) I do expect she will mostly concentrate on the C&V report though. The bra clasp must be thrown out and then the bathmat print isn't strong enough evidence to convict. Something like that.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

zorba wrote:
Sorry that I haven't been keeping up properly

Anyhow, I have been working like a mad person at night, today slept all day, mother in London prescribed incorrect medication led to her bowels not functioning and bursting (she almost died as a result of a doctor not asking her if she had any stomach complaints/troubles/problems before or now or ever, in the end when it was discovered she needed an emergency operation, had not eaten in a month, was basically being poisoned from internally, and was laying down and fading away, it's awful so I must round-off stuff here in my adoptive country and go help.


Sorry to hear about your mother, Zorba. Hope she recovers soon.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
Does anyone know the extent of Meredith's defensive wounds? Was there one cut on her hands, five? Anyone recall?


From the Massei report, three tiny puncture wounds. That's why they call it the "almost non-existent" defense wounds.


Thank you. I was just looking at a case that I'm very familiar with where a woman was attacked by a lone assailant. The assailant was a 19 or 20 year old male that did not know the victim. The victim, a 23 year old woman, had 38 injuries with five deep defensive wounds on her hands where she had tried to grab the knife. The knife sliced deep into her hands each time. There was a final blow to the carotid artery and that victim bled to death as well. If Meredith had been free to defend herself, I think that she should have had numerous, deep, defensive wounds.



I bet Knox got a nasty shock when Meredith turned out to be far stronger than Knox ever expected and at that point it drove Knox Nuts, that being the point where Knox went for or fetched that knife. Then they held Meredith down, Sollecito did, and somehow Guede did too.

I also have a strong feeling that Meredith initially shocked Amanda Knox by reacting to Amanda's physical bullying/aggression by going into a trained reflex and overpowering Knox, perhaps by a hold on her throat and that explains that mark on Knox's neck and it also explains Amanda Knox's pure rage at not getting her own way and the reason she attacked Meredith in such a ''no going back way'', for one might poke and prick at a person attempting to scare and also harm someone but not actually wanting in truth to kill them, for them to have attacked Meredith by going for her neck that way, it can only be either pure rage or a mixture of rage and a will to truly harm at the most extreme level (even if it came about unconsciously and as a reflex).

Looking at Knox's family I can see where she learned to be a bully.


Also, because of what lived inside of Knox, the going for the neck may not necessarily have been something she took long to think about doing, she may have just done it that way as a result of the issues that were going on inside her (reflex).

The issues involve having to be the centre of all attention having to be because of insecurity and lack of true self esteem.


Thanks, all. I agree that is how it unfolded. Would add another thing to it though. That she transported the knife from Sollecito's flat to hers. This speaks so clearly to premeditation.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

guermantes wrote:
I know it's not over yet and it's too early to celebrate, but it was a powerful closing by the prosecution and the victim's family lawyers. They know their stuff.


Hi everybody. Sorry, I might need to correct myself there - as many have said before me, whatever the outcome of the trial, there will be no 'celebration'. There will be neither 'winners' nor 'losers'. It's all rather tragic, also for Knox/Sollecito and their families. But they chose the path of denial and are now paying the price. Had Knox and Sollecito admitted their guilt, they might have received lighter sentences, but it's too late for that now.

And I agree with Mignini that both families have been rather unhelpful to their children in all of this, esp. AK's relatives. Unfortunately, when parents choose the road of denial, what they really choose is to deny their child an opportunity to change and to learn from their mistakes. To a certain extent, I can understand AK's parent's anguish and distress before the verdict, but I can't excuse them for repeatedly stating publicly that Amanda Knox is 'absolutely innocent, 'had nothing to do with this crime', etc etc That would be more tolerable if they were just a bit more humble and less judgmental. Is that asking too much?

guermantes wrote:
And we may still be here in 3 or 4 years, following this case... How do you like this forecast (I'm saying it half-jokingly)? :)


What I meant was: I really hope that this will be over soon. If the trial were to last much longer, it would become almost unendurable even for us as bystanders. Imagine how the Kerchers must have felt these past four years without getting a closure.

Here is hoping that justice will be served in this first appeal and very shortly.

R.I.P. Meredith r-((

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Meredith.jpg


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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jester wrote:
I didn't read the other site ... but suggesting that women do not compete is like saying that rabbits do not breed. I have known women that specifically target married men, not because the men are attractive or interesting, but because the woman believes that if she can seduce the husband, then she is superior to the wife. I have had friends that came onto men I was dating with the result that the guys came to me to ask what's going on - not sure whether I'm in on it, or whether it is blatant betrayal..


Yeah have seen some of that too. The girl I was on about her mate, well she imagined that she was prettier than the girl I was with, though the former was far more plain than the latter, however the plainness, it's true, is a look a great deal of men may prefer, plain face, not ugly, but not uniquely beautiful, plain beauty. Nothing wrong with that, but then this plain Jane would use her pal, for going out, and so on, because the Plain Jane somehow always got the most attention from males. In this way, plain Jane enjoyed this as it made her feel better. She was always phoning her mate (my ex) comparing stuff, I mean she wasn't even friendly it's only her friend wasn't always so bright, and allowed it to happen because she was simply kinder, phoning not to see how her friend was doing, calling up instead to see what her friend was up to so she could make her feel bad about herself by elevating her own stuff/achievements, etc. Her friend would simply question her, over the phone even, like oh and where are you living, what job do you have, which study level are you working at, engaging in, who is your boyfriend.
It'd be like extreme too; even when this friend became pregnant, phoning up to tell everything about it, but to compare her own things with her friend's, oh you don't want kids right, knowing full well the other did.
In bars before too, the plain would do absurd things to overpower the whole pub/bar, even exposing herself (boobs) shouting and hollering, jumping up on the table to show off and on a complete ego trip and always trying to get her friend to do nutty stuff, but even males got the needle at time or often with this, as it was so forced it was unpleasant.

And this stuff somehow makes me think of the way Knox apparently is, the being loud in a restaurant in those ways, entirely out of time and idea of place, well I instantly understood all of that through these past experiences of mine and it reminded me of those women I experienced those years ago.

Jester wrote:
Women that compete are sometimes all there, they are just pathetically insecure and they measure their own sense of self-worth (read: attractiveness to men) in terms of whether they can get the guy.
Once they have the guy, they cast him aside and look for the next self-esteem challenge - the femme fatale. I had a friend in my late 20s that did that ... after a night in bed, she referred to the guys as "dead puppies" ... the guys were all smitten and distraught; their marriages or relationships on the rocks, but for her it was just a game.


Yes this stuff definitely related directly to stuff Knox was into, and what you outline below about her telling Meredith what she could or could not have


Jester wrote:
Knox's remarks about letting Meredith have the guy downstairs tells me that she has that same insecurity and method of shoring up her self-esteem. Even though she told Meredith that she could have the guy downstairs, I strongly suspect that Knox was looking at ways to interfere or seduce him when Meredith wasn't looking. Clearly, Knox telling Meredith that she could date a particular guy means that Knox believed she was in charge, that she was the more desirable of the two, but she would let Meredith have her discards and left overs.



Jester wrote:
Knox competes with women in a very earnest way. She probably perceives the courtroom events as her competing with Comodi & Stefanoni for the Judge's attention and affections.


Yes this stuff about dictating to Meredith I've always found very telling qua characteristic assessment/indicators/pointers of Knox; that's so arrogant, this is exactly how my plain Jane example about used to go. It's so much all packaged in there, like assuming that the guy in question had no own mind, the leaving out of it that the guy would have his own choice, and preference, and maybe not even WANT Knox. This bit really reveals lots about Knox's off-track personality.

Jester wrote:
I could add that any woman that has never had a woman competing with her may not be someone considered worth competing with, but without having all the information, it's not quite the right conclusion to draw. She could simply be naively oblivious - the preferable interpretation.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ergon wrote:
zorba wrote:
Sorry that I haven't been keeping up properly

Anyhow, I have been working like a mad person at night, today slept all day, mother in London prescribed incorrect medication led to her bowels not functioning and bursting (she almost died as a result of a doctor not asking her if she had any stomach complaints/troubles/problems before or now or ever, in the end when it was discovered she needed an emergency operation, had not eaten in a month, was basically being poisoned from internally, and was laying down and fading away, it's awful so I must round-off stuff here in my adoptive country and go help.


Sorry to hear about your mother, Zorba. Hope she recovers soon.



Thank you Ergon,
I hope I can deal with my stuff here now fast, I was/am (still) tied up in sorting tax matters out so I can't just leave with that hanging over my had as I may arrive home (here) to discover that the bailiffs have called.
My mother is a strong woman but I thik I can help her, by being there so that she can be at home.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Earthling wrote:
Hi Folks,

Well, I don't post much here anymore, switching between the two groups takes just more time than I have. However, since so many of you here took this journey together with all of us, I'd like to post this message here, as well.

So, now the first appeal is winding down. Whatever the outcome, I'd like to say that I feel truly honored to have spent this time with you here.

Your translations, freely given... your analytical and thoughtful posts... your intelligence and kindness... but most importantly, your determination to see justice done for Meredith Kercher and her family. These things have kept me here over the past couple years.

I hope and pray for justice and truth for Meredith Kercher in the upcoming decision of the first court of appeals, as well as the Court of Cassation afterward.

In your honor, here's a movie clip from one of my favorite movies about fighting the good fight, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, which was, appropriately, directed by an Italian-American who believed passionately in America: Francesco (Frank) Capra. As in this movie, all the "James Taylors" (Gogerty Marriotts) in the world cannot spin and distort and hide the truth forever, not where there are people of good will who value liberty and truth, and are willing to fight for it. Like Meredith fought desperately for her life four years ago, although outnumbered by three hopped-up thugs.

Thank you, all.
hugz-)

(VIDEO)

And, as always, R.I.P. Meredith Susanna Cara Kercher

r-((



Thanks Earthling, for all of your kind words.

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Offline Tiziano


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -Patrick   

FROM: http://www.umbria24.it

AMANDA IN COURT


PATRICK IN COURT
(Foto Fabrizio Troccoli)

MEREDITH, LUMUMBA'S LAWYER: "AMANDA IS DIABOLICAL" PATRICK: "I HAVE RELIVED THOSE DAYS"
"PATRICK IS THE SECOND VICTIM IN THIS CASE"

26/9/11

By Maurizio Troccoli

The civil parties are playing the last cards too in the Mez trial, represented by the lawyers of Meredith Kercher's family and those of Patrick Lumumba, the young man who ended up in gaol with Amanda and Raffaele, because he was accused of being the author of the murder by the young American. A few days before the sentence, which should come on Monday, and the reconstructions of what happened that night between the 1st and 2nd November, 2007 in the cottage in via della Pergola in Perugia, go on stage. A bloody murder which has seen the two ex-lovers condemned to 26 years prison for Amanda, and 25 for Rafaele at the first stage [trial}.

Patrick Lumumba
Patrick Lumumba was set free after a few days of detention thanks to an "iron clad alibi" which put him in a different place from "the house of horrors", that is to say in his night spot, together with a Swiss professor who witnessed to this, thus helping the young man to get back his freedom. That testimony was sufficient to convince the magistrates - notwithstanding the accusations of Amanda - of his "complete non-involvement in the facts", which originated in the questioning at the Perugia police headquarters on November 6th, 2007. Patrick is still waiting for justice to be done, to be compensated for what was taken from him, for payment for the person who was stained by such a serious crime which sees him as "the second victim of this tragedy", as his defender Claudio Pacelli said this morning. "Patrick has paid a lot, not only for his imprisonment but also for the damage to his image, said Pacelli. "My client ended up in the newspapers and on TV all over the world as the author of the murder of the young Englishwoman."
"During the appearance of my lawyer - [Patrick] says – it is as though I had gone back, reliving that really sad period. We hope that justice is done. Today I relived those moments - the night when the professor came to the pub saying that he wanted to say good-bye because that next day he would be going back to Zurich," Lumumba said, "However he came to save me, with neither I nor he realising this."
"Amanda falsely accused an innocent person - lawyer Pacelli affirmed - exclusively to avoid being discovered. A classic scheme. Amanda is a consummate actress, a very intelligent girl, astute and cunning. One who really knows how to inspire the emotions of whoever is listening to her."

The finger pointed at Amanda
And the fault of what happened to the damage of Patrick resides completely in "the young American, Amanda", whose profile the lawyer drew in court, defining her "an explosive mixture of drugs, sex and alcohol." He added, "Quite the opposite of sweet, she has a split personality, fresh-faced, the daughter everyone would like, Saint Maria Goretti, and then with her histrionic side [she is] an impostor, she is a she-devil, satanic, diabolic, addicted to borderline behaviour. What Amanda says when she claims that Patrick's name was suggested to her by the police is a huge lie. She was the one to arbitrarily choose to point to Patrick as the guilty on, in order to distance herself from suspicion," the lawyer said further.

The hearings continue. After Lumumba's lawyer it is the turn of the Kercher family defenders. On Monday, however, the closing arguments of the defence of the accused will begin. The sentence of the appeal is expected on Tuesday.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:
I didn't read the other site ... but suggesting that women do not compete is like saying that rabbits do not breed. I have known women that specifically target married men, not because the men are attractive or interesting, but because the woman believes that if she can seduce the husband, then she is superior to the wife. I have had friends that came onto men I was dating with the result that the guys came to me to ask what's going on - not sure whether I'm in on it, or whether it is blatant betrayal..


Yeah have seen some of that too. The girl I was on about her mate, well she imagined that she was prettier than the girl I was with, though the former was far more plain than the latter, however the plainness, it's true, is a look a great deal of men may prefer, plain face, not ugly, but not uniquely beautiful, plain beauty. Nothing wrong with that, but then this plain Jane would use her pal, for going out, and so on, because the Plain Jane somehow always got the most attention from males. In this way, plain Jane enjoyed this as it made her feel better. She was always phoning her mate (my ex) comparing stuff, I mean she wasn't even friendly it's only her friend wasn't always so bright, and allowed it to happen because she was simply kinder, phoning not to see how her friend was doing, calling up instead to see what her friend was up to so she could make her feel bad about herself by elevating her own stuff/achievements, etc. Her friend would simply question her, over the phone even, like oh and where are you living, what job do you have, which study level are you working at, engaging in, who is your boyfriend.
It'd be like extreme too; even when this friend became pregnant, phoning up to tell everything about it, but to compare her own things with her friend's, oh you don't want kids right, knowing full well the other did.
In bars before too, the plain would do absurd things to overpower the whole pub/bar, even exposing herself (boobs) shouting and hollering, jumping up on the table to show off and on a complete ego trip and always trying to get her friend to do nutty stuff, but even males got the needle at time or often with this, as it was so forced it was unpleasant.

And this stuff somehow makes me think of the way Knox apparently is, the being loud in a restaurant in those ways, entirely out of time and idea of place, well I instantly understood all of that through these past experiences of mine and it reminded me of those women I experienced those years ago.

Jester wrote:
Women that compete are sometimes all there, they are just pathetically insecure and they measure their own sense of self-worth (read: attractiveness to men) in terms of whether they can get the guy.
Once they have the guy, they cast him aside and look for the next self-esteem challenge - the femme fatale. I had a friend in my late 20s that did that ... after a night in bed, she referred to the guys as "dead puppies" ... the guys were all smitten and distraught; their marriages or relationships on the rocks, but for her it was just a game.


Yes this stuff definitely related directly to stuff Knox was into, and what you outline below about her telling Meredith what she could or could not have


Jester wrote:
Knox's remarks about letting Meredith have the guy downstairs tells me that she has that same insecurity and method of shoring up her self-esteem. Even though she told Meredith that she could have the guy downstairs, I strongly suspect that Knox was looking at ways to interfere or seduce him when Meredith wasn't looking. Clearly, Knox telling Meredith that she could date a particular guy means that Knox believed she was in charge, that she was the more desirable of the two, but she would let Meredith have her discards and left overs.



Jester wrote:
Knox competes with women in a very earnest way. She probably perceives the courtroom events as her competing with Comodi & Stefanoni for the Judge's attention and affections.


Yes this stuff about dictating to Meredith I've always found very telling qua characteristic assessment/indicators/pointers of Knox; that's so arrogant, this is exactly how my plain Jane example about used to go. It's so much all packaged in there, like assuming that the guy in question had no own mind, the leaving out of it that the guy would have his own choice, and preference, and maybe not even WANT Knox. This bit really reveals lots about Knox's off-track personality.

Jester wrote:
I could add that any woman that has never had a woman competing with her may not be someone considered worth competing with, but without having all the information, it's not quite the right conclusion to draw. She could simply be naively oblivious - the preferable interpretation.


I see Knox as not only having the issues mentioned above, but she was also brash. I liked the description of her has having the mask of an innocent but that when the mask slips, we see the nasty side of her. I'll bet that Deanna has some stories to tell about what it was like being the younger sister of Knox, and I'll bet that they weren't all nice stories. It didn't take Meredith long to see the nasty side of Knox. They'd been roommates since early October and by the end of one month, Meredith was distancing herself.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

The updates and translations are much appreciated!
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
Also high drama in court today as Michelle Moore, the wife of Steve Moore, retired FBI expert and outspoken critic of the prosecution, (both in the courtroom as observers), decided it would be a good idea to let Mignini know she though he was "an evil person". She is now being detained. She may receive a costly fine for insulting (libeling) him. At this time she is not allowed to leave the building.

Update: She was held for an hour and has been released.


Source: Another article from Steve Shame
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

A very good question, from another site.

Since Rafaelesays he was with Amanda........well, in his sort of amended version....why didn't HE let the police know that Patrick was innocent? He was, obviously, only arrested because Amanda says she was with him. Therefore, If she was with Raf, he could have just stepped up, and explained it. He cetainly spoke Italian, could even have passed this on to Vanessa, who was still in the Cabaniere.

It's possible, that this being a holiday weekend, Raf and Amanda hmay have counted on it being a rather slow time, and a lot of Police away. Perhaps some deskonly sergeants around. Well, and Raf also saying the Police are stupid. Amanda obviously thinking the same, hoping to disarm with hip wiggles. SHOCKER!!!!!!!

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

It is noted, on JLOL, that a poster says all Amanda has to say, three times, is * I did not kill Meredith Kercher :)

Lesson attorneys give clients : DENY, DENY, DENY. wh-)

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Quote:
Also high drama in court today as Michelle Moore, the wife of Steve Moore, retired FBI expert and outspoken critic of the prosecution, (both in the courtroom as observers), decided it would be a good idea to let Mignini know she though he was "an evil person". She is now being detained. She may receive a costly fine for insulting (libeling) him. At this time she is not allowed to leave the building.

Update: She was held for an hour and has been released.


Source: Another article from Steve Shame


Poor Michelle Moore. em) She needs a LOT of attention...even if negative. Like Amanda ss)

I guess she was trying to top Frank Sfarzo.

Perhpas she hoped to look passionate in her defense of the la_) Unfortunately, she just looked like an uncivilized nutter. She may have to settle for the Foakers to tell her how * Brave * she was.

The thing is : She should have addressed her remark to Amanda. Surely she knows it's the ultimate evil to take someone's life: Thou shalt not kill. I guess she felt she had to do something, to earn her trip to Perugia. :)

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Nell wrote:
Quote:
Also high drama in court today as Michelle Moore, the wife of Steve Moore, retired FBI expert and outspoken critic of the prosecution, (both in the courtroom as observers), decided it would be a good idea to let Mignini know she though he was "an evil person". She is now being detained. She may receive a costly fine for insulting (libeling) him. At this time she is not allowed to leave the building.

Update: She was held for an hour and has been released.


Source: Another article from Steve Shame


Poor Michelle Moore. em) She needs a LOT of attention...even if negative. Like Amanda ss)

I guess she was trying to top Frank Sfarzo.

Perhpas she hoped to look passionate in her defense of the la_) Unfortunately, she just looked like an uncivilized nutter. She may have to settle for the Foakers to tell her how * Brave * she was.

The thing is : She should have addressed her remark to Amanda. Surely she knows it's the ultimate evil to take someone's life: Thou shalt not kill. I guess she felt she had to do something, to earn her trip to Perugia. :)


Somehow they think these stunts are making the Italian authorities look bad. I believe it's the other way around.

I would be surprised to find a courtroom in the US or Europe where it is allowed to insult the prosecutor while exercising his duties. She is a guest in Italy and a guest in the courtroom. She has to behave, otherwise she gets the boot.

Knox apologists believe that every ugly insult they hurl at others is free speech and should go unpunished, but telling the courtroom that Amanda was an easy girl and took drugs is labeled "character assassination". They are hypocrites.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php ... ecito_was/

In case anybody forgot (like me :) ) how Bongiorno's first summation went. I wonder if she will be defending AK again. Probably.
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Guede did not "break in" through that window. Apart from the fact there were no traces of entry; displaced glass, marks on the wall, rusty nail still in place? It's way too high up. The break-in was staged, the night before. Sollecito and Knox completely out of it made a rash decision to stage that point of entry. Throwing a heavy rock quickly and partially ransacking the room (nothing was stolen). Why were clothes pulled out of the wardrobe when valuable items obviously within view weren't touched? It is too obvious - a staging. How did Sollecito instantly know when phoning the police the next morning that nothing had been stolen. He didn't even live there ... he was trying to minimize the situation - in his mind it was as if he was already being accused.

No way Guede got through that window without cutting himself, brushing the glass off the ledge, leaving fabric traces, leaving traces of earth or organic matter from the outside. It was November. The ground was damp. There was nothing.

It was not the most obvious entry point -- the house had been burglarized multiple times before and it was not through that window.







Last edited by ttrroonniicc on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:26 am, edited 11 times in total.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Quote:
Also high drama in court today as Michelle Moore, the wife of Steve Moore, retired FBI expert and outspoken critic of the prosecution, (both in the courtroom as observers), decided it would be a good idea to let Mignini know she though he was "an evil person". She is now being detained. She may receive a costly fine for insulting (libeling) him. At this time she is not allowed to leave the building.

Update: She was held for an hour and has been released.


Source: Another article from Steve Shame


What did she expect? What is wrong with her anyway! I couldn't imagine going to a foreign country, entering a courtroom during a murder trial and then announcing to all what I thought of an officer of the court - a complete stranger, that is doing his or her job. She sounds like she's completely off the deep end cuckoo. She should be embarrassed, but she's probably proud of her actions and convinced that her friends at home are cheering her on ... and who knows, maybe she surrounds herself with crazy people that do that sort of thing at home. If my mother or daughter pulled a stunt like that, I'd be sending them for an MRI brain scan to see if there was a brain tumour or some other sort of frontal lobe trauma ... like a frontal lobotomy.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Nell wrote:
Quote:
Also high drama in court today as Michelle Moore, the wife of Steve Moore, retired FBI expert and outspoken critic of the prosecution, (both in the courtroom as observers), decided it would be a good idea to let Mignini know she though he was "an evil person". She is now being detained. She may receive a costly fine for insulting (libeling) him. At this time she is not allowed to leave the building.

Update: She was held for an hour and has been released.


Source: Another article from Steve Shame


Poor Michelle Moore. em) She needs a LOT of attention...even if negative. Like Amanda ss)

I guess she was trying to top Frank Sfarzo.

Perhpas she hoped to look passionate in her defense of the la_) Unfortunately, she just looked like an uncivilized nutter. She may have to settle for the Foakers to tell her how * Brave * she was.

The thing is : She should have addressed her remark to Amanda. Surely she knows it's the ultimate evil to take someone's life: Thou shalt not kill. I guess she felt she had to do something, to earn her trip to Perugia. :)


She probably thought that she was at a sporting event where she's supposed to call out to the "players" and heckle them. What a complete lunatic ... and I have to say that her husband can't be much better if he couldn't impart any common sense about protocol in criminal investigations/trials.
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Offline Tiziano


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau
@BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Mignini explaining to press ysty incident with michele moore #amandaknox activist. #fascinating
7 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry® Favorite Retweet Reply
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Offline Tiziano


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
More media arriving daily in #amandaknox appeal. So far 374 have been accredited. Courtroom full at 9am. Ct at 930 today.
10 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Knox is a 'sex-loving she-devil'
Note the 'halo' pic :roll:
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

There's a pic of Steve No-Moore floating around...sitting on a bench with a reporter...in Perugia I think.

Very Fred Flinstone-esque. The rug he's wearing is awful...so spoiler alert, if you see it :)

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Offline Tiziano


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Court in session (fr BLN).
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Interesting:

Quote:
andreavogt
American networks piling into perugia for #amandaknox appeal. Security higher in courtroom after disorderly conduct incident yesterday.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

What time is it in Italy, right now? It's 12.45 am here for me......

Oh , Good Morning, Tiz and Nell. Up early, I see. Ta :)

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Last edited by capealadin on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
"American networks piling into perugia for #amandaknox appeal. Security higher in courtroom after disorderly conduct incident yesterday."

For a split second I thought it said "American security forces are getting into perugia".
Is the propaganda campaign finally getting to me?...lol..
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
What time is it in Italy, right now? It's 12.45 am here for me......

Oh , Good Morning, Tiz and Nell. Up early, I see. Ta :)

9:45am. Good afternoon here ;)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

LOL, Max. I tell ya, if Michelle decides to bite the cops, ala Frank...it could be really dangerous with her horse teeth. She could take off a hand :)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Max, you must be far away. Is it G'day, for you ?

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Offline Tiziano


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 - Curt Knox   

FROM OGGI
Cronaca
Omicidio Meredith: Curt Knox, per Amanda difficile vedere foto cadavere Mez
Perugia, 26 set. - (Adnkronos) - '' Per lei e' cosi' difficile vedere la sua amica in quel modo, e' molto dura per lei'' ha detto il padre di Amanda Knox, Curt Knox, rispondendo alla domanda di un giornalista che gli ha chiesto come mai Amanda non si fosse girata verso lo schermo a guardare le foto del cadavere di Meredith Kercher. Sempre parlando delle foto mostrate dall'avvocato della famiglia Kercher Francesco Maresca, il padre di Amanda ha detto ''chiedo a me stesso, pensano forse che il processo sta andando male e per questo le ha fatte vedere?''.

Curt's spin on why Amanda found it difficult to seeing the police photos of Meredith: It's so hard for her to HER FRIEND like that ...

He also said that he wonders whether the photos were shown because "they thought that the trial was going badly ... "
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
What time is it in Italy, right now? It's 12.45 am here for me......

Oh , Good Morning, Tiz and Nell. Up early, I see. Ta :)


I am located in Australia. So for me it is 5:47pm. To read all the tweets until the very end I have to stay up until early in the morning.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Sheesh, Tiz, with friends like that, who needs enemies :(

Wow, you poor Aussies. That is a tough one. Makes me appreciate y'all even more.....

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Offline Tiziano


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
What time is it in Italy, right now? It's 12.45 am here for me......

Oh , Good Morning, Tiz and Nell. Up early, I see. Ta :)


Hello Cape & good morning to you. It's 6.00 PM here, 8 hours less in Perugia. !0.00 AM and the court has been in session for 30 minutes.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
Court in session 935 #amandaknox


Quote:
BBCDanielS
Rafaelle Sollecito's lawyer Giulia Bongiorno addressing the #amandaknox appeal. Rafaelle's father in court


Quote:
BBCDanielS
Bongiorno's first topic - the relationship between the #amandaknox trial and the media. Good topic. Worth a PhD


Quote:
BBCDanielS
#amandaknox and Rafaelle separated by only two lawyers but no observable eye contact this morning.


Quote:
BLNadeau
Giulia Bongiorno off to strong start in #amandaknox appeal. Scolding prosecution for creating hype in first place.


Quote:
BLNadeau
Bg: angry tone and raised voice. #amandaknox


Quote:
BLNadeau
Worth noting that bongiorno was effective in defending #amandaknox in 1st trial. Focus on saving "them" not just #sollecito


Quote:
BBCDanielS
The holstered handgun of the policeman guarding Rafaelle in the #amandaknox appeal is only 30 cms from his left shoulder.


Quote:
andreavogt
Giulia Bongiorno says meredith murder tragic, unpardonable. Not up for debate. Rather, jury must decide fate of #amandaknox and Sollecito.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Max, you must be far away. Is it G'day, for you ?

No no, that is even further. Here it is 'selamat siang'. I am European though :)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
#sollecito lawyer again defending #amandaknox accusing press for finding worst images of her on social networking sites


It didn't work in the first trial, why should it now? How is it that Barbie Nadeau calls Bongiorno "effective"? If Bongiorno would have been "effective", they wouldn't have needed an appeal. They would have been acquitted.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Quote:
BLNadeau
#sollecito lawyer again defending #amandaknox accusing press for finding worst images of her on social networking sites


It didn't work in the first trial, why should it now? How is it that Barbie Nadeau calls Bongiorno "effective"? If Bongiorno would have been "effective", they wouldn't have needed an appeal. They would have been acquitted.

"Effective" as in they didn't get a life sentence I suppose.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BBCDanielS
The holstered handgun of the policeman guarding Rafaelle in the #amandaknox appeal is only 30 cms from his left shoulder.

--------------------------------------------------


Such a BBC thing to say. Because of course, we're not used to seeing our guards and police in the UK carrying guns, especially in court. Things like that are so going to worry the BBC chaps :)

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Offline Tiziano


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Bongiorno: Meredith had no enemies. The young american #amandaknox was immediately considered guilty, and right behind her, was Raffaele.
9 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Andrea Vogt
andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Giulia Bongiorno says meredith murder tragic, unpardonable. Not up for debate. Rather, jury must decide fate of #amandaknox and Sollecito.
13 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Andrea Vogt
andreavogt Andrea Vogt
American networks piling into perugia for #amandaknox appeal. Security higher in courtroom after disorderly conduct incident yesterday.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
andreavogt
Bongiorno: Meredith had no enemies. The young american #amandaknox was immediately considered guilty, and right behind her, was Raffaele.


Quote:
BBCDanielS
So far Bongiorno is talking more about #amandaknox than her client Rafaelle. Passionate delivery. Her gold tassles bouncing on her shoulder


Quote:
BLNadeau
#sollecito lawyer "nothing connects raffaele to the murder". elements tie #amandaknox to crime not raf. He was just the bf.


Quote:
BBCDanielS
It's the media's fault again in the #amandaknox case. Bongiorno says we dug out the worst pictures of her. (For worst read most compelling)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Bongiorno is focusing on defending Amanda, just like I expected.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Quote:
BLNadeau
#sollecito lawyer "nothing connects raffaele to the murder". elements tie #amandaknox to crime not raf. He was just the bf.


Is she splitting from joined defense?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
#sollecito lawyer "nothing connects raffaele to the murder". elements tie #amandaknox to crime not raf. He was just the bf.

------------------------------

Ouch!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
#sollecito lawyer "nothing connects raffaele to the murder". elements tie #amandaknox to crime not raf. He was just the bf.

Is she going to cut RS loose from AK?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Tiziano wrote:
Barbie Latza Nadeau
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
#sollecito lawyer "nothing connects raffaele to the murder". elements tie #amandaknox to crime not raf. He was just the bf.

Is she going to cut RS loose from AK?


I sincerely hope so.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
They say #amandaknox was femme fatale & dominarice who guided #sollecito to murder. Points to amanda & says she's more like jessica rabbit.


'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''


Double ouch!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Tiziano wrote:
Barbie Latza Nadeau
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
#sollecito lawyer "nothing connects raffaele to the murder". elements tie #amandaknox to crime not raf. He was just the bf.

Is she going to cut RS loose from AK?


I sincerely hope so.



No, not going to happen.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BBCDanielS
Bongiorno is good. #amandaknox jury all leaning forward, paying close attention. Rafaelle is the only Italian in this case.


Quote:
andreavogt
Bongiorno: media transformed #amandaknox into a diabolical figure that doesn't reflect reality: that she is honest and loyal.


Quote:
BLNadeau
Bongiorno is very effective, in good form today. #amandaknox 's best defense like last time.


Quote:
BBCDanielS
Thanks to @BLNadeau for this translation - Bongiorno says #amandaknox is Jessica rabbit not femme fatale.


Quote:
BLNadeau
Bongiorno says bloody footprint on bathmat was #sollecito, but like always, they made a mistake. #amandaknox
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
Tiziano wrote:
Barbie Latza Nadeau
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
#sollecito lawyer "nothing connects raffaele to the murder". elements tie #amandaknox to crime not raf. He was just the bf.
Is she going to cut RS loose from AK?

I sincerely hope so.

No, not going to happen.

Don't think so either. Just keeping all options open. She is really good.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

She admits that the bloody footprint is Sollecito's? What the heck is going on?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Bongiorno: media transformed #amandaknox into a diabolical figure that doesn't reflect reality: that she is honest and loyal.


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno is very effective, in good form today. #amandaknox 's best defense like last time.



BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Thanks to @BLNadeau for this translation - Bongiorno says #amandaknox is Jessica rabbit not femme fatale.


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno says bloody footprint on bathmat was #sollecito, but like always, they made a mistake. #amandaknox

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Quote:
BLNadeau
Bongiorno definitely winning back some ground lost for #amandaknox and #sollecito in last days in first hour of her closing arguments.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
She admits that the bloody footprint is Sollecito's? What the heck is going on?



She's not, she's saying they made a mistake.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Unfortunately Barbie doesn't tell us how Bongiorno did that by saying there are elements that tie Amanda to the crime, not Raffaele and admitting it is his bloody footprint. Barbie says Bongiorno claims they made a mistake with the footprint, but doesn't tell us what it is.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno definitely winning back some ground lost for #amandaknox and #sollecito in last days in first hour of her closing arguments.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
There are no traces of #amandaknox or #sollecito in murder room. This is absolute and incontestable truth says Bongiorno.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
She admits that the bloody footprint is Sollecito's? What the heck is going on?



She's not, she's saying they made a mistake.


But it would be the first time she admits it is his footprint on the bath mat. She never claimed a "mistake" before, she told us for the past four years it wasn't his. So what's the new story?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
None of the consultants -- ours or theirs -- found traces of these two in murder room. #amandaknox

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
She admits that the bloody footprint is Sollecito's? What the heck is going on?



She's not, she's saying they made a mistake.


But it would be the first time she admits it is his footprint on the bath mat. She never claimed a "mistake" before, she told us for the past four years it wasn't his. So what's the new story?




We'll find out later. This is just her introduction.

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
She admits that the bloody footprint is Sollecito's? What the heck is going on?


She's not, she's saying they made a mistake.


But it would be the first time she admits it is his footprint on the bath mat. She never claimed a "mistake" before, she told us for the past four years it wasn't his. So what's the new story?

I think she means that with the mistakes the experts made it becomes Raf's footprint. She is not saying it is his. Still, this is a weak argument. Maybe she will get back to it later, and explain exactly how Rudy was supposed to have left it.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Bongiorno: In meredith's room there is no trace of raffaele or #amandaknox. Slams cops for jailing raff for shoeprint that was rudy's.


BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Bongiorno back on the #amandaknox is Jessica Rabbit theme. Amanda now watching her, rather than staring straight ahead as she has for 3 days

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Prosecution did not request interrogation of #sollecito on the stand, only #amandaknox says Bongiorno Why not?


BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Bongiorno knows that to clear her client Rafaelle she must first clear #amandaknox. Their fates are intertwined.


BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Bongiorno banging home the point that there were no traces at all of #amandaknox or Rafaelle in victim Meredith Kercher's room.



BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno: What confession was there? the interrogation #amandaknox was not recorded. What's left against them? Nothing, she says.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
#sollecito lawyer "nothing connects raffaele to the murder". elements tie #amandaknox to crime not raf. He was just the bf.

------------------------------

Ouch!


It's incredible!

So much for Biongiorno's Amélie of Seattle routine!

Stunning!

ETA: BUT WAIT! just caught up - now Amanda = Jessica rabbit?!

Color me confused.


Last edited by Jackie on Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Tiziano


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

MEREDITH: RIPRESO IL PROCESSO CON ARRINGA AVVOCATO BONGIORNO


09:45 27 SET 2011

(AGI) - Perugia, 27 set. - E' ripreso questa mattina con l'arringa di uno dei legali di Raffaele Sollecito, l'avvocato Giulia Bongiorno, il processo di appello allo studente di Giovinazzo e ad Amanda Knox condannati in primo grado a 25 e 26 anni di carcere per l'omicidio di Meredith Kercher. Presenti in aula i due imputati.(AGI) Pg2/Mav

The news agencies are already reporting proceedings.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Candace_Dempsey Candace Dempsey @
@BLNadeau Okay, thanks for telling me that. I will be there Thursday until verdict. I enjoy all the tweets meanwhile.


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau @
@Candace_Dempsey I'm not accusing you, your tweets sounded like you were here & I hadn't seen you/big scrum so it would be easy to miss ppl.


Candace_Dempsey Candace Dempsey @
@BLNadeau Barbie, not criticizing you. I was commenting because I know what Michelle said.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Bongiorno is already disappointing. Her defense is going nowhere. If she doesn't have an ace up her sleeve and keeps telling the judges there is no evidence in the first place, than this is only a waste of time in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

courtneycwalsh courtneycwalsh
Before Knox hearing 2day PM Mignini says he did not approve of civil lawyers calling Amanda "a witch". Nor of pics of Kercher yesterday.


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno says #amandaknox has been depicted as "venus in fur" by prosecution.


BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Ancient bell chiming as Bongiorno continues to address #amandaknox jury in centuries-old, brick-vaulted room w partially-restored frescoes.



andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Bongiorno discussing three top reasons for false confessions in #amandaknox appeal. Studies show young people more vulnerable.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
There are three types of false confessions, says Bongiorno. #amandaknox was third type, when someone innocent collapses under pressure.


courtneycwalsh courtneycwalsh
Sollecito's lawyer Bongiorno discussing A's confession and types of "false self-accusations" and how some are internalized.


BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Bongiorno addressing #amandaknox confession head-on. Says young people particularly liable to false confessions if under pressure.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Yeah, American studies and we know exactly who's been supplying those to Bongiorno.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
...
BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Bongiorno addressing #amandaknox confession head-on. Says young people particularly liable to false confessions if under pressure.



YEah - "young" as in 10 years old (not 20+/ 3rd year U)!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Okaaay, WHAT elements point to Amanda at the crime scene? I hope she'll elucidate.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Bongiorno reads from #amandaknox sentence, mocking theory of crime dynamic, especially erotic aspect.


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno says "unka bunka" I'm going to need help translating that... #amandaknox



andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Bongiorno makes Bunga Bunga joke. Jurors and judges laugh openly for first time.



BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Rafaelle has adopted unusual pose. He is continually watching his lawyer speak in #amandaknox case. Often appellants/defendants don't



BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
ahhh, eskimo kiss = "unka bunka" #amandaknox


BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Bongiorno dealing with #amandaknox and Rafaella cuddling at police station. Says it was unca unca (eskimo nose kiss) not #bungabunga

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Venus in FUR??? Politically incorrect. Does she mean Bruce gave Manders a fur?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox testified in court during the first trial that she wrote her handwritten note without any suggestions or pressure from police. As far as I am concerned, Bongiorno's tactic to include that kind of defense (for Amanda!) is a bit late to make or break the case. Amanda Knox's own lawyers said she wasn't hit or abused, so don't these two theories collide?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno says these young lovers couldn't hug in the police station without it appearing sinister b/c they wanted them guilty.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno criticizing Mignini behavior during interrogation. #amandaknox Turns to him to pseudo-scold him. She is very effective.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

From the less than completely reliable wiki:

"Jessica Rabbit is Roger's human buxom wife in the book and movie. In the book, she was an immoral, up-and-coming star and former comic character, over whom her estranged husband, comic strip star Roger Rabbit, obsessed. She is re-imagined in the film as a sultry, but moral, cartoon singer at a Los Angeles supper club called The Ink and Paint Club. She is one of several suspects in the framing of her husband, who is a famous cartoon star..."

I take it Bongiorno is referring to the movie rather than the book.

And Sollecito is Roger Rabbit...

Lame. Like the book/ movie.

Italians go for that stuff? Who knew?!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
We have a transliteration crisis on eskimo nose kiss at #amandaknox trial. @BLNadeau says unka bunka I say unca unca. We need clarity.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau @
@BBCDanielS we're going to need an independent review of this I think...


andreavogt Andrea Vogt
#amandaknox: A young girl in a foreign country interrogated by police and they didn't call an attorney? Not right, says Bongiorno.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Okaaay, WHAT elements point to Amanda at the crime scene? I hope she'll elucidate.

Probably all normal because she lived there wh-)


Last edited by max on Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno disses copper Monica Napoleoni in #amandaknox case. Oft referred to as the "dominitrix homicide cop" some gender tension here.


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno calls Napoleoni and her partner "cretine"

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno very harsh on investigators, methodology, prosecution. #amandaknox


BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Bongiorno says logs of officers wire-tapping phones in #amandaknox case show they already presumed guilt of Amanda and Rafaelle

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Bongiorno humor: #amandaknox and Raff did Bunca Bunca (an eskimo kiss with noses). Bunga bunga something very different, she joked.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Venus in FUR??? Politically incorrect. Does she mean Bruce gave Manders a fur?


"Venus in Furs"???

from wiki:

a novella by Leopold Ritter[1] von Sacher-Masoch

tells of a man, Severin von Kusiemski, so infatuated with a woman, Wanda von Dunajew, that he requests to be treated as her slave, and encourages her to treat him in progressively more degrading ways.

Wha?????
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Bongiorno now attacking #amandaknox translator at the police station, saying was biased.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Bongiorno says female investigator in #amandaknox case Monica Napoleoni is a "cretin"

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jackie wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Venus in FUR??? Politically incorrect. Does she mean Bruce gave Manders a fur?


"Venus in Furs"???

from wiki:

a novella by Leopold Ritter[1] von Sacher-Masoch

tells of a man, Severin von Kusiemski, so infatuated with a woman, Wanda von Dunajew, that he requests to be treated as her slave, and encourages her to treat him in progressively more degrading ways.

Wha?????


lol
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jackie wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Venus in FUR??? Politically incorrect. Does she mean Bruce gave Manders a fur?


"Venus in Furs"???

from wiki:

a novella by Leopold Ritter[1] von Sacher-Masoch

tells of a man, Severin von Kusiemski, so infatuated with a woman, Wanda von Dunajew, that he requests to be treated as her slave, and encourages her to treat him in progressively more degrading ways.

Wha?????




And is also the subject of the famous Velvet Underground song of the same name...

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
15 minute break in #amandaknox appeal

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Double LOL, Jackie. So, now we know what Ms. BG, REALLY believes........

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Oh no! 3-way transliteration crisis in #amandaknox. I wrote unca unca, @BLNadeau unka bunka, now @andreavogt comes in with bunca bunca.


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau @
@BBCDanielS I think someone had better ask Bongiorno....

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

You're BUSY, Michael. :) As usual. Ta, Hon.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Bongiorno says female investigator in #amandaknox case Monica Napoleoni is a "cretin"

Cretine/cretin...stupid/idiot..whatever. She is attacking all of them now. Prosecutors, police, forensics. Sounds a bit desperate.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

So far, blaming everyone except the Janitor. Must be the HUGE conspiracy at work....... nw)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Max, cretini-cretins :) Not very nice, but hey, as you say...desperate. Wonder what she calls her wonder boss..Berlusconi?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Jackie wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Venus in FUR??? Politically incorrect. Does she mean Bruce gave Manders a fur?


"Venus in Furs"???

from wiki:

a novella by Leopold Ritter[1] von Sacher-Masoch

tells of a man, Severin von Kusiemski, so infatuated with a woman, Wanda von Dunajew, that he requests to be treated as her slave, and encourages her to treat him in progressively more degrading ways.

Wha?????




And is also the subject of the famous Velvet Underground song of the same name...


Bongiorno's references are too much for me - it's getting very late in my neck o' the woods - they seem a little 'double edged'.
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Judge Massei Sentencing Report     The Meredith Kercher Fund     The Murder Of Meredith Kercher Wiki     True Justice For Meredith Kercher     Judge Nencini Sentencing Report 


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