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Why didn't Amanda Knox leave Italy?

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Offline 2catsintheyard


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:06 am   Post subject: Why didn't Amanda Knox leave Italy?   

Hello all, I have been following your discussion for some time but just signed up tonight. I have been wondering: why didn't Amanda Knox leave Italy at her first opportunity after the murder? Several days elapsed before she was formally charged with any crime. If she had returned to the US, was she at risk of being extradited back to Italy for questioning? Does the fact that she stayed willingly in Perugia indicate she had nothing to hide? I appreciate your dedication to this case and the insight you all offer on this Forum.
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Offline nicki

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:20 am   Post subject: Re: Why didn't Amanda Knox leave Italy?   

2catsintheyard wrote:
Hello all, I have been following your discussion for some time but just signed up tonight. I have been wondering: why didn't Amanda Knox leave Italy at her first opportunity after the murder? Several days elapsed before she was formally charged with any crime. If she had returned to the US, was she at risk of being extradited back to Italy for questioning? Does the fact that she stayed willingly in Perugia indicate she had nothing to hide? I appreciate your dedication to this case and the insight you all offer on this Forum.


Amanda was interrogated the same day the body was found. I doubt police would allow her to leave the country, they had just started a murder investigation where she was an important witness, and she was found on the crime scene. If I remember well, in the email to her friends back home before being arrested,she wrote that she couldn't leave Perugia "for a few days" . I would not say she stayed willingly in Perugia
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Online The Machine


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:47 am   Post subject: Re: Why didn't Amanda Knox leave Italy?   

2catsintheyard wrote:
Does the fact that she stayed willingly in Perugia indicate she had nothing to hide? .


Hi 2catsintheyard and welcome to PMF.

The answer to your question is a resounding "no". Amanda Knox gave multiple alibis and lied repeatedly. This indicates that Knox had plenty to hide and that she certainly wasn't honest and transparent.

The police were suspicious of Knox and Sollecito from the very beginning because of the way acted when the postal police unexpectedly turned up at the cottage. One of the officers testified that they seemed surprised and embarrassed. Their suspicions would have been quickly confirmed when they noticed the break in had been staged with shards of glass on top of Fiolmena's clothes, Filomena strongly contradicting Knox's assertion that it was usual for Meredith's door and when they found out that Sollecito had lied about calling 112 before the postal police had arrived.

Knox and Sollecito's strange behaviour immediately after Meredith's body was discovered e.g. kissing each other whilst everyone else was in shock and their subsequent inappropriate and bizarre behaviour was picked up on by the police and everyone else who witnessed it. One of Meredith's friends, Amy Frost, said that she thought Knox was "crazy".

Once Knox and Sollecito had been questioned and they had given conflicting and contradictory statements , they were almost certainly prime suspects and Knox would have never been allowed to leave the country.
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Offline Fly by Night


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:27 pm   Post subject: Re: Why didn't Amanda Knox leave Italy?   

The Machine wrote:
Once Knox and Sollecito had been questioned and they had given conflicting and contradictory statements , they were almost certainly prime suspects and Knox would have never been allowed to leave the country.


Italian authorities have repeatedly characterized Amanda Knox as being both dangerous and cunning and there is strong evidence to back up those observations. Her own actions early on made her a suspect and can be interpreted as playing cat-and-mouse with the authorities. In her email home it seems clear that she already knew she would not be allowed to leave the country, although she apparently did not want to say it in so many words. In all actuality, she didn't have any choice.
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Offline Per Ardua Ad Altiora


Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:56 am

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:33 pm   Post subject: Re: Why didn't Amanda Knox leave Italy?   

The Machine wrote:
Hi 2catsintheyard and welcome to PMF.

The answer to your question is a resounding "no". Amanda Knox gave multiple alibis and lied repeatedly. This indicates that Knox had plenty to hide and that she certainly wasn't honest and transparent.

The police were suspicious of Knox and Sollecito from the very beginning because of the way acted when the postal police unexpectedly turned up at the cottage. One of the officers testified that they seemed surprised and embarrassed. Their suspicions would have been quickly confirmed when they noticed the break in had been staged with shards of glass on top of Fiolmena's clothes, Filomena strongly contradicting Knox's assertion that it was usual for Meredith's door and when they found out that Sollecito had lied about calling 112 before the postal police had arrived.

Knox and Sollecito's strange behaviour immediately after Meredith's body was discovered e.g. kissing each other whilst everyone else was in shock and their subsequent inappropriate and bizarre behaviour was picked up on by the police and everyone else who witnessed it. One of Meredith's friends, Amy Frost, said that she thought Knox was "crazy".

Once Knox and Sollecito had been questioned and they had given conflicting and contradictory statements , they were almost certainly prime suspects and Knox would have never been allowed to leave the country.


The Machine,

I agree whole heartedly with your statement. To begin with even in the U.S. if somebody was present at the time the discovery of a body was made, they would be taken in for questioning. They would not just be allowed to go and/or flee the country. I would think this would hold true in any country. Any attempt to flee in my opinion most certainly would be a sign of guilt.

A couple of thing sI would like to point out though is some of the reason pointed out. Keep in mind I know you are bringing up things already given and not something you made up. I will point out that friends of Meredith's making statements to me is not concrete. I have 2 daughters and with girls if they do not like another girl they can form a strong opinion. It doesn't matter if they know the person well or not they will form a strong opinion and nothing will waiver them from it. So the statement of Amanda being crazy could just be that Amy Frost did not like here and has a strong opinion about her regardless. THis also is not uncommon between people from 2 different cultures.

As for their behavior this is something I have a tough time stomaching. There is nothing that sets a standard for human emotions. You could place 10 people in a situation of a friend being killed and you are likely to get 6 different reactions. Different people will have different reactions to a crisis be it: fear, stress, guilt, shock, disbelief, PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder), anger. Psychologically we are equipped to deal with various aspects of a crisis at different times and our reactions can run the gamut over time. So to me just saying someone reacted a certain way does not prove innocence or guilt. Here is a great website on culture and emotion: http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~tsailab/ It is basically a website about this on studies conducted by Stanford University. Note to administrators- feel free to take that link and copy it into a sticky somewhere on the board as a reference.
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Offline Per Ardua Ad Altiora


Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:56 am

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:45 pm   Post subject: Re: Why didn't Amanda Knox leave Italy?   

Fly by Night wrote:
The Machine wrote:
Once Knox and Sollecito had been questioned and they had given conflicting and contradictory statements , they were almost certainly prime suspects and Knox would have never been allowed to leave the country.


Italian authorities have repeatedly characterized Amanda Knox as being both dangerous and cunning and there is strong evidence to back up those observations. Her own actions early on made her a suspect and can be interpreted as playing cat-and-mouse with the authorities. In her email home it seems clear that she already knew she would not be allowed to leave the country, although she apparently did not want to say it in so many words. In all actuality, she didn't have any choice.


If I may ask what strong evidence backs up the observations that Amanda Knox was dangerous and cunning. I don't doubt that authorities characterized her as being so, but what strong evidence backed up the observation. I only ask because I highly doubt that the many of the Italian Authorities have extensive research in the scientific field of Psychology. Definitely feel free to look into the link I left above on studies conducted at Stanford in their department of Psychology on emotion and culture. No 2 Human Beings are going to cope or show emotions in the same manner.

As to how the authorities characterized her as being dangerous and having strong evidence to support that. I definitely want to see that strong evidence. Even some of the most prevelant Serial Killers of our time wouldn't be characterized as dangerous if someone had met them prior to being caught.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:47 pm   Post subject:    

Altiori wrote:

Quote:
As for their behavior this is something I have a tough time stomaching. There is nothing that sets a standard for human emotions. You could place 10 people in a situation of a friend being killed and you are likely to get 6 different reactions. Different people will have different reactions to a crisis be it: fear, stress, guilt, shock, disbelief, PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder), anger. Psychologically we are equipped to deal with various aspects of a crisis at different times and our reactions can run the gamut over time. So to me just saying someone reacted a certain way does not prove innocence or guilt. Here is a great website on culture and emotion: http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~tsailab/ It is basically a website about this on studies conducted by Stanford University. Note to administrators- feel free to take that link and copy it into a sticky somewhere on the board as a reference.


Naturally, behavior does not prove innocence or guilt. Rudy Guede went out disco dancing after he left the murder scene, but this is not why he was later apprehended. The same is true of Knox and Sollecito. Their behavior alone was not what led to their arrest. What led to their arrest was their changing alibis (before the Nov 5-6 interrogation), the inconsistency between their cellphone records and their account of the morning of discovery and other factors that are behavior related but not personality related.

We have discussed the issue of cultural differences here before, and I have stated that some of Knox's behaviors would appear less shocking within the micro-culture of Seattle. But I still think that most people would have been surprised and dismayed by the way both Sollecito and Knox behaved at the police station. It is no indication of guilt, but indication of bad judgement, immaturity and lack of empathy. Whether you are in Seattle or Portsmouth, this kind of behavior under these circumstances is unacceptable. It is not evidence, however.

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Offline Fly by Night


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:46 pm   Post subject: Re: Why didn't Amanda Knox leave Italy?   

Per Ardua Ad Altiora wrote:
If I may ask what strong evidence backs up the observations that Amanda Knox was dangerous and cunning.


These terms have been repeatedly used in Italian Judge (note: this has nothing to do with Mignini) summaries regarding keeping Knox incarcerated, when other suspects might typically be released while awaiting trial in the Italian system. For more information I would suggest that you start by reading Judge Micheli's 100 page summary report outlining why Rudy Guede was found guilty. Although the trial concerned Guede alone, Judge Micheli had a lot to say about Knox and Sollecito in convicting Guede. It is a disturbing read and not favorable to Knox - so much so that Anne Bremner refused to talk about it on national television saying it had nothing to do with the current trial. Bremner is correct in saying this, but the same evidence will eventually become a part of the Knox/Sollecito trial.
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lamountain


PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:40 pm   Post subject: Re: Why didn't Amanda Knox leave Italy?   

The Machine wrote:
2catsintheyard wrote:
Does the fact that she stayed willingly in Perugia indicate she had nothing to hide? .


Hi 2catsintheyard and welcome to PMF.

The answer to your question is a resounding "no". Amanda Knox gave multiple alibis and lied repeatedly. This indicates that Knox had plenty to hide and that she certainly wasn't honest and transparent.

The police were suspicious of Knox and Sollecito from the very beginning because of the way acted when the postal police unexpectedly turned up at the cottage. One of the officers testified that they seemed surprised and embarrassed. Their suspicions would have been quickly confirmed when they noticed the break in had been staged with shards of glass on top of Fiolmena's clothes, Filomena strongly contradicting Knox's assertion that it was usual for Meredith's door and when they found out that Sollecito had lied about calling 112 before the postal police had arrived.

Knox and Sollecito's strange behaviour immediately after Meredith's body was discovered e.g. kissing each other whilst everyone else was in shock and their subsequent inappropriate and bizarre behaviour was picked up on by the police and everyone else who witnessed it. One of Meredith's friends, Amy Frost, said that she thought Knox was "crazy".

Once Knox and Sollecito had been questioned and they had given conflicting and contradictory statements , they were almost certainly prime suspects and Knox would have never been allowed to leave the country.


I tend to disregard the confession from the interrogation myself, there's thousands of cases where people were forced to confess something they did not do. Most police departments here in the US require interrogations to be videotaped for that reason, there are people being released from death row still who have been locked up for decades for something they did not do.

Their behavior after the murder to me doesn't matter, not everyone acts the same. Kissing/etc. is not proof of anything, I may have done the same thing if my friend was murdered. Most of the character witnessess aren't too reliable either, a lot of people jump into cases like this for the fame.

That being said we will see how it turns out.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:53 pm   Post subject:    

Lamountain wrote:

Quote:
I tend to disregard the confession from the interrogation myself, there's thousands of cases where people were forced to confess something they did not do. Most police departments here in the US require interrogations to be videotaped for that reason, there are people being released from death row still who have been locked up for decades for something they did not do.

Their behavior after the murder to me doesn't matter, not everyone acts the same. Kissing/etc. is not proof of anything, I may have done the same thing if my friend was murdered. Most of the character witnessess aren't too reliable either, a lot of people jump into cases like this for the fame.

That being said we will see how it turns out.


This was not a confession, really. It was a false accusation. Personally, I feel that the argument of coercion has not only not been demonstrated in this case, it has been shown to be false. Knox made a spontaneous statement in the courtroom that has led to an investigation. Otherwise, the other witnesses - including the interpreters - were pretty convincing.

I'm not sure this case compares to what you may have seen in the US. The idea of people jumping on for fame may be more true in fame-obsessed America. Neither of the two main eye witnesses seem like people looking for fame. In fact, they seem like people looking for obscurity.

Like you say, we'll see how it all turns out.

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lamountain


PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:03 pm   Post subject:    

Skeptical Bystander wrote:
Lamountain wrote:

Quote:
I tend to disregard the confession from the interrogation myself, there's thousands of cases where people were forced to confess something they did not do. Most police departments here in the US require interrogations to be videotaped for that reason, there are people being released from death row still who have been locked up for decades for something they did not do.

Their behavior after the murder to me doesn't matter, not everyone acts the same. Kissing/etc. is not proof of anything, I may have done the same thing if my friend was murdered. Most of the character witnessess aren't too reliable either, a lot of people jump into cases like this for the fame.

That being said we will see how it turns out.


This was not a confession, really. It was a false accusation. Personally, I feel that the argument of coercion has not only not been demonstrated in this case, it has been shown to be false. Knox made a spontaneous statement in the courtroom that has led to an investigation. Otherwise, the other witnesses - including the interpreters - were pretty convincing.

I'm not sure this case compares to what you may have seen in the US. The idea of people jumping on for fame may be more true in fame-obsessed America. Neither of the two main eye witnesses seem like people looking for fame. In fact, they seem like people looking for obscurity.

Like you say, we'll see how it all turns out.


Fame obsessed America? I don't think you know too much about here then :lol:

So far, what is the prosecutions total evidence in this case? I can't find a current description of the court events to go on.
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Offline Skeptical Bystander


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:26 pm   Post subject:    

Lamountain wrote:

Quote:
Fame obsessed America? I don't think you know too much about here then

So far, what is the prosecutions total evidence in this case? I can't find a current description of the court events to go on.


I know as much as a US citizen living presently in America can. And having lived abroad for many years, I do see America as fame-obsessed compared to many other countries.

As for your second question, you'll have to read all of the main discussion threads here and perhaps look at the previous iterations of the board. Everything you might want to know is there. Sorry I can't make it easier on you, but to some extent you have to take the time to read and digest it all.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:08 pm   Post subject: LOCKING THREAD   

I am now locking this thread. Too many open threads make the forum confusing for visitors and place more demands on Moderators who are already spread rather thinly, to monitor them. If you believe any points raised in this topic to be worthy of further discussion, please debate them in the Main Discussion Thread in The Murder of Meredith Kercher forum.

Thank You

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